Small Talk: The Quiver

[Sakura12]

I started watching The Musketeers, it is a lot of fun. It's like the swashbuckling version of CSI 17th Century.  I'm really starting to enjoy these period piece shows now with that one, Ripper Street and Penny Dreadful.  

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yeah, Ripper Street is another one that I enjoyed.  So glad that Amazon saved that one from cancellation.  You might like Copper, I don't know...that one's pretty dark and I didn't enjoy the second season all that much.

 

I'd never call Dollhouse terrible. Season one wasn't good (although the original pilot is much, much better than any of the first 6 episodes shown), and season two was pretty good. I also loved the whole idea behind the Epitaph flash-forwards - that was really fresh for TV. Of course, I am a die-hard Whedonite, so... 

 

 

With the flash-forward, I remember being so confused and thinking (not in a good way, either), "WTF just happened?!"  I will say, though, Joss Whedon does do a fantastic job where casting is concerned.  His shows have introduced me to some truly wonderful actors/actresses.  No biggie, I'm glad he's got his fans, but whenever I hear his name attached to a TV project, I have to think twice about whether I should give it a chance or not.   

[JayKay]

I enjoyed Alien: Resurrection but never warmed to Dollhouse and wasn't sorry to see it go. Though I loved the character of Adelle DeWitt. Firefly was unique while it lasted but honestly after hearing about the plans for Inara, I'm glad it died. I'd have quit watching at that point anyway.

 

Joss Whedon has a cynical and morbid side, and I sometimes wonder if he has had to fight off the urge to kill more characters than he has. Killing Buffy's mother exemplified how pointless death was a necessity that grounds reality for him. Not everybody agrees. I don't think he kills characters off for drama, but for validation of his own worldview, which is kind of worse imo. The man has a very strong vision, but it can go kinda tunnely on him at times and when that happens it looks like a cave-in to people who aren't following right behind him. As excited as I am that he (of all people) got the Avengers gig, I still don't trust it not to go pear-shaped simply because he doesn't believe in happy endings.

 

And I also don't believe that he has the same grasp on Captain America that Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely do. I really hope that he doesn't suck the life out of Steve Rogers in A:AoU, because Captain America: The Winter Soldier raised the bar on character exploration in the MCU, imo. I kinda wish there was more delegation of power within the Avengers franchise, just for peace of mind.

[dtissagirl]

Just came home from watching Guardians of the Galaxy. I had SO MUCH FUN, it was unreal. It's like old Star Wars meets new Star Trek and they drop acid together. *g* I WANNA GO AGAIN.

[Starfish35]

Captain America: The Winter Soldier raised the bar on character exploration in the MCU, imo.

I loved Winter Soldier. Can't wait until it comes out on video. I think it's possibly my favorite MCU movie to date, although Avengers is a very close second.

I haven't known what to think about Guardians of the Galaxy - it looks so different from anything they've done yet. But so far I'm reading good reviews. It'll probably be awhile before I get to see it though.

Back to Joss and Dollhouse....I wasn't a huge fan of the series either, but I did watch the whole thing. Olivia Williams and Enver Gjokaj were the best things about it (in my opinion of course). As much as I loved Eliza as Faith, I had to admit that she really didn't have the range to pull off this kind of role. I liked Echo - I didn't hate her like some did - but, well.

My bigger problem, however, was that I read an interview or two with Joss talking about the series. I was surprised that it sounded like some of the things I found most interesting about the show, the questions about identity (who are we really?) and the underlying conspiracy, were things that the network made him add. Maybe I misunderstood him, but it sounded to me like he just wanted to do a show that was a straight-up exploration of people's fantasies, and the dolls were just a mechanism for that. But then someone said that it sounded a lot like prostitution, and the network freaked out and made him put all the other stuff in. I don't know - for some reason that just kind of affected my view of the show after that, because I'd been defending it based on these underlying themes that apparently weren't even part of the original plan in the first place.

[FurryFury]

Maybe I misunderstood him, but it sounded to me like he just wanted to do a show that was a straight-up exploration of people's fantasies, and the dolls were just a mechanism for that.

 

He definitely wanted to explore the identity question, he had mentioned that quite a few times, IIRC. That was one of the points of the show, and definitely not something added by the network.

[manbearpig]

I think Whedon did want to explore the stuff about identity on Dollhouse because that is built into the show pretty much immediately. Found an interview with the Chicago Tribute where he stated:

"We got the espionage that the network wants, but it’s the questions about identity that we want," he noted. 

 

He also said that the network was very critical about the sexual side of the show. One of my favourite things about the show was seeing the various dolls overcoming their conditioning and seeing little parts of the original person peek through. I think the network was more concerned about the prostitution angle and making the show more action oriented. It's a shame it got cut off so soon, because the show had so much potential. I'm still dying to know about the pre-Dollhouse connection between Dr. Saunders and Topher.

[Carrie Ann]

I'll be the weirdo to say that I like Dollhouse better than Firefly. I HATED the first 5-6 episodes, but from that point on, I was all in. And I don't really love the flash-forward episodes either, but it was interesting to see how the characters and relationships had developed. I think they did them because they were throwing everything out there to try to get renewed--at least that was the case for the one at the end of S1. There are a couple of other things that I wasn't thrilled about, but in general, I love that show. And yeah, ED was the weakest link by far for me (Tahmoh Penikett was second-weakest), but everyone else in the cast was outstanding.

[JayKay]

My bigger problem, however, was that I read an interview or two with Joss talking about the series. I was surprised that it sounded like some of the things I found most interesting about the show, the questions about identity (who are we really?) and the underlying conspiracy, were things that the network made him add. Maybe I misunderstood him, but it sounded to me like he just wanted to do a show that was a straight-up exploration of people's fantasies, and the dolls were just a mechanism for that. But then someone said that it sounded a lot like prostitution, and the network freaked out and made him put all the other stuff in. I don't know - for some reason that just kind of affected my view of the show after that, because I'd been defending it based on these underlying themes that apparently weren't even part of the original plan in the first place.

Oh wow, I never knew about that. I'm shocked. So it would have been like Fantasy Island but with less romance and consent. Yikes. Surprising given their bad rep but sounds like Fox did the right thing there. And I was disappointed with Dushku's performance because she seemed to go bland as a lead. Maybe she just grew out of that manic energy that made Faith so compelling.

Also I agree completely about the Winter Soldier. And I can't wait to see the extras. The camaraderie of Steve, Natasha and Sam plus the way the friendships in general were portrayed made me so, so happy.

[Carrie Ann]

I thought Joss was really interested in the human trafficking angle, basically, which, yeah, is about prostitution. I would have found that pretty boring, and GROSS, since we really know one male doll, and the rest are women. But the network was like, "No, we want FUN sexy times, not ones with icky human rights overtones." But, um, instead they got both, I guess.

[Starfish35]

Well, from FurryFury and manbearbig says above, apparently it was just the conspiracy that the network made him add. The identity issues were always a part of it. Which is good I suppose - at least I didn't totally misunderstand the show - LOL. But...eh. The sexual fantasy part was my least favorite aspect of the show, and I wasn't thrilled to hear that it was apparently supposed to be a larger part of the show than it was. Anyway.

I didn't think Eliza Dushku was bad. And I think she handled a lead role alright on Tru Calling. But Tatiana Maslany she isn't, and this particular show needed a more versatile actress in the lead role - one who could have handled the multiple personalities more easily. It's not good when your lead actress is being out-acted by almost everyone else in the cast. Especially when the show was kind of created for her in the first place. :(

ETA: here is the link to the Tribune article. http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/12/dollhouse-fox-joss-whedon.html

part of what was going to be the show was the idea of who these people were -- [part of it was going to be about] these clients and what their fantasies were, what they expected, what they wanted. You know, what do we get from each other in our most intimate relationships, be they sexual or [whatever else]. The interest in the client kind of moved away.

Exploitation wasn’t the whole theme. It was going to be a question of, how much of this fantasy will people let us have. Now, I didn’t make exactly the same show [that was pitched], but we did get to delve in the territory a little bit. The idea was always, how much of the fantasy will [viewers] accept and how much will they go, "You know what, this just is too much like real-world situations that are truly appalling and so I can’t let the fantasy happen."

Because as I said before, when you’re dealing with fantasies, particularly sexual ones, you’re going off the reservation. You’re not going to be doing things that are perfectly correct. It’s supposed to be about the sides of us that we don’t want people to see. For me it was exploitation was part of it, but it was more about the idea of our identities and what we consider to be ourselves and how relating to other people affects that, how we incorporate other people in ourselves and how we project ourselves onto people and how everybody relates to everyone in their lives through the filter of their own beliefs, experiences and memories. That to me is kind of fascinating. What we think we want from each other when we say "I love you" or any of those other things is, I think, very complex and sometimes very depressing and sometimes kind of weirdly beautiful.

And this was from an EW interview last year - most of it was not about Dollhouse.

Because Fox was uncomfortable with exploring some of the basic foundations of the show—about a group of young women programmed to fill the needs of wealthy clients—in terms of sexuality–

They were totally comfortable with it until [Fox owner News Corp.’s then president] Peter Chernin said, “This sounds like prostitution.” Then Fox did an about-face that was dazzling in its speed and precision.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/09/24/joss-whedon-interview/2/

Edited August 1, 2014 by Starfish35

[tv echo]

I watched The Quest, which debuted on ABC this week, and kinda liked it.  Here's an article on it:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/07/31/abc-the-quest-review-larping/

[formerlyfreedom]

A bunch of posts were moved over to Mind Your Surroundings, because they're talking about the DC and MCU - since there IS actually an existing topic for them, the off-topic thread isn't where it should be talked about. Thanks!

[Sakura12]

Anyone watch Vikings on the History Channel? It's not a historically accurate show, but it does have a kick ass woman in the form of Lagertha played by Katheryn Winnick (a black belt martial artist and licensed body guard). 

[Morrigan2575]

Vikings is awesome love that show. The lead actor is so wonderfully expressive.

[formerlyfreedom]

We actually have a forum for Vikings - AND one of our esteemed leaders really digs the show too...

[SonofaBiscuit]

I keep seeing stuff on tumblr and elsewhere about Outlander, and it's making me want to watch the show but I don't have Starz!  I don't even have a clue what the books are about, but the stuff I see on tumblr makes me want to watch it.  Anyone here read the books?  I'm staying away from the forum so I don't accidentally get spoiled, but I might have to see how that one turns out (not even sure if that series of books is completely finished yet?) before I get invested.  I do not like unhappy endings.  Feel free to PM me if you like but don't get too spoilery with anything! 

[MsSchadenfreude]

SonofaBiscuit:  I have read the Outlander book series by Diana Gabaldon.  The first book called Outlander is one of my all time favorite books.  If I ever wind up back in Scotland in the 1700's, I'm only staying if someone like Jamie Fraser (he's the main hero) is there. :)

 

I have not watched any episodes of the Starz show yet, so I can't comment on that.

Edited August 6, 2014 by MsSchadenfreude

[JayKay]

I thought that it was a Nicholas Sparks romance novel adaptation type of deal. What's Outlander about? I have Starz but I haven't watched it. All I keep seeing are kilt promos.

[MsSchadenfreude]

Here is the quick synopsis for Outlander.

 

English army nurse and her husband are vacationing in Scotland after the end of WWII.  She goes to visit a stone formation looking for plants, she hears a strange noise and faints, when she wakes up she is now in Scotland in 1700's.  She is taken in by the Mackenzie clan and adventure ensues, and there are lots of kilts. 

[Sakura12]

I watched the first episode of Outlander and really liked it. It's a bit different than most time travel stories since most of those are sci-fi and this one is more romance drama. The leads have great chemistry and I love me some Scottish brogue. The first ep was exciting for me because I was waiting the whole time for her go back in time. I haven't read the books so I don't know what's going to happen. 

 

If you like historical romance dramas with beautiful landscapes and sexy accents, then I recommend it. 

[tv echo]

Even if you don't get the Starz channel, they are doing a promotion where you can watch the first episode for free online at their website this week only (before it debuts on TV this Saturday):

 

http://www.starz.com/originals/outlander?gclid=CMKNnJqLgcACFQSEaQodFYkAOA

[Sakura12]

You can watch this and learn how to pronounce the first episode title.

 

 

Don't know what it is about certain accents. 

Edited August 7, 2014 by Sakura12

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yeah, I watched about the first 20 minutes of Outlander online, and I just wanted to get to the time travel part!  I discovered that my satellite provider also has a free preview of the first episode, but they made it very difficult to find.  I actually had to do a menu search for Outlander to even find it.  Accents, kilts, beautiful scenery, and an epic romance?  I'm definitely in.  My mind exploded when I found out that the lead guy in Outlander is the same guy who was in that Hallmark Christmas movie, A Princess for Christmas.  Doesn't even look like the same person at all.

 

I'm glad to hear that the main leads have great chemistry.  That would have been a disaster if they didn't!  I'll admit, I'm a little terrified that Ronald Moore is involved with this.  I'm still not over how Battlestar Galactica ended.  Ugh.  

[Ceylon5]

From the Heartaches thread:

:-D glad to know i'm not the only Doug/Carol lover left in cyber space. they are forever my OTP too. they are the quintessential example of chemistry that is off the charts.

...

About the side note: personally i didn't mind when Julianna left, yea i was sad but it was painfully obvious, in terms of strong independent female character, that the writers had zero idea what to do with the character without George around (which luckily won't happen on Arrow, but a fear i still harbor)- i mean the first thing they did in season 6 was push her to Luka (and god do i remember the backlash it caused- but cyber space wasn't what it is now so no one really paid attention to our cries). I think personally, as well and character wise, it was a very smart decision on Jules's part. She proved that for her it wasn't the money that was important but the character progression as a person. were she to stay we would have gotten exactly what is happening with Laurel now!. It is no secret that, in its middle seasons, ER had a tendency (probably due to the ever growing cast) to side bench main characters for lengthy periods of time- something which rarely happened in the early seasons.

I was happy to seem them receive the happy ending they deserved. the very surprising!! happy ending- if you guys don't know the story: In her last episode, Carol realized she was being an idiot, ditched Luka and hopped on a plane to Seattle where Doug now lived. her arc was supposed to end with her sitting in the plane. in a genius move- and one rarely seen these days, EP and writer John Wells wrote an extra scene where Carol surprises doug at his house in seattle - it was literally a surprise scene. They shot it, in seattle, with only a handful of people. Wells kept the film in his fridge until the episode was ready to be shipped and than added the scene. it ended up being a total surprise to the network executives too, who had no idea Clooney was gonna be making a guest appearance (wells and Clooney didn't want his appearance to take the spotlight away from Jules, as it was her last episode)- the exec's found out an hour before airing which left no time to promote it. everyone went crazy the next day! hack they even printed it in the newspaper in my home country, where the 6th season haven't even started airing yet.

 

Back then, I didn't have ready access to the internet (I do not miss dial-up!), so wasn't following anything on-line.  I didn't know that story about the final scene with Carol & Doug in Seattle - very cool story!  I love, love, loved that scene - and it was a great way to send the two of them off.  (I also loved seeing them together in Seattle 9 years later when the series ended - nice that both actors agreed to do that.)

 

Anyway, I blame George for leaving the show and creating the "Carol is there but Doug isn't" problem of S5 & S6.  I loved Carol so much I wanted more of her, but I hated her and Doug being apart.  It was a very catch-22 situation, which only Doug coming back could have really solved.  Based on how their relationship was going before he left, it's more likely in real world terms that she would have just gone with him then, but in terms of actors and their contracts, that wasn't going to happen.  It was a very tiresome situation which must have been aggravating for the writers to try to deal with.  Putting her with Luka, though, was not IMO the correct solution.  I know she was their leading lady, but she didn't have to be in a relationship, especially after the whole Doug thing.  They should have just let her run her clinic, etc. and left romance out of her storyline.  In terms of how they were handling her character, I agree that her decision to leave was the correct one.  But I was still really sad, because she was my favourite character.

 

This is why I feel sorry for TV writers - it's impossible to plan a story out when so many outside factors keep getting in the way!

[dtissagirl]

Bringing this over from the 'Ships Thread.
 

I don't know the ultimate outcome of Crichton/Aeryn yet as I just finished s1 of Farscape but I can see that kind of organic relationship building with Oliver/Felicity if they handle it right. And for my money, to this point they have.

Ooooh, man, Farscape handled the romance aspect of it brilliantly, even when it was so very screwed up. And good lord, it was warped. If you think Oliver has issues, John had about three billion more as the show went on. Hee.

[Farscape is the best show, true story.]

Another show that did good with the main romance was Nikita [yes, the CW can do it right sometimes]. Nikita and Michael had a crap ton of stuff to deal with as their relationship evolved [mainly trust issues, but those trust issues were ON STEROIDS], but the narrative never went the triangle route, or kept piling on external reasons to keep them apart. They even had a surprise! kid! there in the middle, but it was solved quickly, and with everyone involved behaving like adults.

[foreverevolving]

From the Heartaches thread:

 

Back then, I didn't have ready access to the internet (I do not miss dial-up!), so wasn't following anything on-line.  I didn't know that story about the final scene with Carol & Doug in Seattle - very cool story!  I love, love, loved that scene - and it was a great way to send the two of them off.  (I also loved seeing them together in Seattle 9 years later when the series ended - nice that both actors agreed to do that.)

 

Anyway, I blame George for leaving the show and creating the "Carol is there but Doug isn't" problem of S5 & S6.  I loved Carol so much I wanted more of her, but I hated her and Doug being apart.  It was a very catch-22 situation, which only Doug coming back could have really solved.  Based on how their relationship was going before he left, it's more likely in real world terms that she would have just gone with him then, but in terms of actors and their contracts, that wasn't going to happen.  It was a very tiresome situation which must have been aggravating for the writers to try to deal with.  Putting her with Luka, though, was not IMO the correct solution.  I know she was their leading lady, but she didn't have to be in a relationship, especially after the whole Doug thing.  They should have just let her run her clinic, etc. and left romance out of her storyline.  In terms of how they were handling her character, I agree that her decision to leave was the correct one.  But I was still really sad, because she was my favourite character.

 

This is why I feel sorry for TV writers - it's impossible to plan a story out when so many outside factors keep getting in the way!

Funny, about the leading lady thing. for me personally, the reason ER (and the West Wing) is my favorite show is because there is no leading male and/or lady. it was an ensemble cast- or at least that's how it felt in the early seasons. that is why i stuck around for a little longer after several of the original cast left. although i did stop watching regularly after marc died, the writing and stories started going down hill. although it picked back up in the last couple of seasons.

 

Oh god! i hated dial up too! we had that for a good couple of years i think before we switched to ADSL.

 

Regarding the Carol storyline. In all honesty i think it was less Doug not being there and more lack of imagination, or lack of desire to "come up with something interesting because they knew jules was leaving and they had 10 other cast members who are staying... so why bother- which was shitty!. I mean they had her on a great story arc in season three and four, which yes Doug was a part of but as a supporting character. There was a terrific fanfic that was written around that time which had carol dealing with post birth depression; that could have been an excellent storyline to take her on - they sort of started to go there, but dropped within an episode or two- it's also a storyline which they have never done before on the show (and i don't count Susan's sister or Peter's son) because she was the first female cast member to give birth. honestly, if you consider all the factors: she is alone (well by choice, she did admit to Marc doug continued to ask her to move to seattle while she was still pregnant) raising twins, she has a history of depression and an attempted suicide. there was alot they could have done with her during that year, but they chose instead to hook her up her with the new clooney replacement character (and don't even get me started how pissed i was that he got to touch her pregnant belly while we all knew Doug - the kids father!- probably never got to (at least they could have was give them a third child while in seattle, so we know the poor guy got to experience that we her, especially after how hard she fought to keep her uterus! (it annoyed me to no end, just as them dropping the Doug has an illegitimate son storyline in season 1)

 

Anyway, I can sort of accept.. or fanwank the Luka storyline, i think it helped her fully realize that no matter who she's with it's always going to be Doug in the end, it is something we've seen time and time again with her past relationships (and Doug's too). you can see it through their interaction the two times they kissed she really wasn't into it, and she always had a guilty expression on her face, she knew this is something she shouldn't be doing, she could feel that it was wrong.

 

And a major Yes for the Seattle scenes, 9 years later. it was very satisfying to see them happy, married, and just living their life contently with all the baggage finally left in the past. in their case it really was "third time the charm" :-P

Oh god, I kind of miss those days! when shipping wars were pretty much non existent! (unless you were watching Beverly Hills 90210, in that case: Kelly and Brandon forever- sorry couldn't resist, lol) you either liked the couple or you didn't. and if you didn't, you just didn't. than again the ER crowd viewers was, from what i could tell, made of mostly 18+ individuals. i was considered a nonconventional viewer, age wise (I started watching in late 98 and i was 13 at the time).

 

regarding Nikita: yea, that kid really wasn't a surprise for those of us who watched the Original 90's Nikita.

[poetgirl925]

I watched the first episode of Outlander and really liked it. I haven't read the books though, so I have no idea how it all plays out or how closely they'll even follow the books.

I watched the 90s version of Nikita, I think it was La Femme Nikita? A friend loaned me her DVDs when I was home on an extended break visiting my parents, and I liked that version a lot. The last season was a little iffy for me. I watched maybe one or two episodes of the CW Nikita but didn't have time to keep up with it. Maybe I should give it another try at some point.

[Ceylon5]

Oh god, I kind of miss those days! when shipping wars were pretty much non existent! (unless you were watching Beverly Hills 90210, in that case: Kelly and Brandon forever- sorry couldn't resist, lol) you either liked the couple or you didn't. and if you didn't, you just didn't. than again the ER crowd viewers was, from what i could tell, made of mostly 18+ individuals. i was considered a nonconventional viewer, age wise (I started watching in late 98 and i was 13 at the time).

 

The trick is to stay off-line.  I watched the first 2 seasons of Arrow not even knowing it was based on comic-book characters and completely unaware of shipping names or shipper wars.  It was only when I stumbled on the thread on TWoP (in my final binge before the site shut down) that I first discovered all that stuff.  It was quite an eye-opener!  I don't generally look up much stuff on most of the shows I watch, so I just like/dislike things in happy isolation, unaware of what the rest of the world thinks.  It definitely changes one's viewing experience to read a lot of backstage/fan/spoiler stuff about a show, and not usually in a good way.  But it has its fun side too, so occasionally I indulge!

 

ETA: @poetgirl925 - I haven't seen La Femme Nikita, but Nikita is really excellent right to the end and well worth watching.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Ceylon5

[dtissagirl]

regarding Nikita: yea, that kid really wasn't a surprise for those of us who watched the Original 90's Nikita.

 

Yeah, I watched the 90s show too [and the original movie, and the Hollywood movie adaptation. I'm a huge Nikita fan. *g*], but I kinda didn't like Michael in LFN, so I barely remember the part with the kid.

[Ceylon5]

And I've just realised that the guy who plays Michael on Nikita was actually also on ER and before that played Susanna Thompson's son on Once & Again.  I've liked him in all his roles, even though he has a habit of losing limbs...

[JayKay]

Ooooh, man, Farscape handled the romance aspect of it brilliantly, even when it was so very screwed up. And good lord, it was warped. If you think Oliver has issues, John had about three billion more as the show went on. Hee.

[Farscape is the best show, true story.]

Like Chuck, Farscape was one of those shows that if you didn't ship the main couple, half the series could feel tedious to watch. Luckily, Farscape's characters were so rich and well explored that the John/Aeryn relationship it didn't feel engineered and manipulative. I loved their relationship (oddly not the blatantly shippy bits so much - like that episode with the porno gas on Talyn) but their dynamic was always fascinating. Sometimes I wish we could have spent more time with the other crewmates but the show did a great job of mixing it up even if the John/Aeryn romance was near the heart of the show.

 

I also respected that they addressed the sexual attraction early on, dealt with the buildup in the first season(!) and didn't drag the will-they-won't they into hackneyed oblivion. They crafted that relationship out of denser stuff than most shows allow their romances. It was personal on a deeper level than just chemistry, of which there was plenty. Aw man, I don't know if there will ever be another show that gets it right the way Farscape did.

[tv echo]

Catrox14, after you finish watching all four seasons of Farscape, make sure you also watch the special movie that follows - Farscape: The Peacekeeper Wars, if you want to see the conclusion of the John/Aeryn love story.

[KirkB]

Given how the last episode ended, you kind of HAVE to watch Peacekeeper Wars or be seriously depressed.

[Morrigan2575]

Fuuny, I was annoyed with the cliffhanger ending but I hate when shows end on a cliffy and don't get resolution. However, I was massively depressed after Peace Keepers War. I never shipped John/Aeryn, so I didn't care about their love story

that whole baby/pregancy in the middle of battle was cheesy and IMO stupid

.

I said a big FU to Farscape after they

killed Dargo

and I haven't watched since, no reruns...ruined the whole show for me.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Catrox14, after you finish watching all four seasons of Farscape, make sure you also watch the special movie that follows - Farscape: The Peacekeeper Wars, if you want to see the conclusion of the John/Aeryn love story.

 

 

Given how the last episode ended, you kind of HAVE to watch Peacekeeper Wars or be seriously depressed.

 

I didn't have SciFi channel when Peacekeeper Wars came out, so I couldn't watch it.  I read about what happened online, but I never actually did get around to watching it.  It's been sitting on my shelf for ten! years because I just don't want to admit it's really over, I think. 

 

I remember them talking about Farscape webisodes or something like that, but I don't think that those ever happened, sadly.  Ben Browder was also supposed to be in some online thing, Naught for Hire.  Don't think that ever happened either.

 

Edited to remove spoilery bits.  Spoiler tag just doesn't want to cooperate today.

Edited August 11, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[KirkB]

Crichton and Aeryn were a fun couple. When Ben and Claudia both came to Stargate later, the showrunners seemed to go out of their way to have Mitchell (Browder) and Vala (Black) not have too many scenes alone together. I guess because they didn't want their chemistry to override the relationship they were determined to start between Vala and Daniel.

[dtissagirl]

From the Relationships thread:
 

I think with so-called bland characters is that they're more subtle as opposed to the more..louder characters for lack of a better word.
Oliver falls in the former as does Duncan Kane. They react in smaller ways as opposed to a Logan.

Duncan Kane wasn't just bland, though. I'm sorry I can't source this because the person who shared the info isn't online anymore, but specifically with Teddy Dunn, it's not that he was bland, it was that he could not act, period. It was a real production problem they had. The VMars EPs even tried to get the WB to pay for an acting coach for him [they've done that before, most memorably for Misha Barton on The OC], but the studio refused, so Rob Thomas paid it out of his pocket for someone to coach TD from mid S1 onwards. It still didn't work, his acting didn't improve, and ultimately they had to write him out.

[wingster55]

I disagree about his acting. To me he wasn't as bad as some say. Most notably in 1.21

Coincidentally I never thought much of Jason Dohring's acting. 

[manbearpig]

I had never heard that about Teddy Dunn before. Interesting. I don't think he acts anymore though. Must be weird to book a gig on a show and then get told you need acting lessons, after getting employed. I mean, I know there are popular, famous actors who work with a coach regularly, but still, must have been an awkward conversation. Duncan never really bothered me, but every other regular on the show popped so much that it was noticeable. I didn't actively dislike the character or the actor, but I didn't miss him when he left, either. Always thought Veronica was more interesting single, anyway.

 

Hadn't heard about Barton, either.

[dtissagirl]

Well, Dunn retired from acting in 2008, so I guess Hollywood agrees he was a terrible actor.

[poetgirl925]

I honestly can't remember anything about his acting but I do know I could barely pay attention to his scenes. It didn't matter who he was in scenes with, either, my attention just wandered. According to his online bios, he didn't do much after Veronica Mars and earned a law degree last year, so I guess acting didn't really work out for him. They didn't even bother to bring him back for the movie.

[wingster55]

He did do a few things after VM..but he chose to stop acting. Not as though Hollywood unanimously decided to shun him.

As for the movie..kinda hard to have him back when he's technically a fugitive. 

[dtissagirl]

I had a couple of ~insider info~ ins with VMars. A friend even had access to the scripts in advance. If I remember the story correctly, the person Rob Thomas hired to coach Dunn was also offered a role on the show as part of the deal -- the Russian woman from Ruskie Business, I think?

VM had a SHIT TON of production problems wrt to the cast. KBell and Dohring's acting methods clashed a lot [she was classically trained and didn't need much rehearsal; Dohring liked improvisation and wanted to rehearse A LOT so he could figure out which experimentation worked out best]. Francis Capra and Percy Daggs had attitude problems, and Dunn had the technical problems. He literally couldn't be directed because he didn't have the skills. I heard a story about one director who almost walked out the set because of him, and the set producer had to scrape part of a scene, or something. Crazy stuff.

Edited August 11, 2014 by dancingnancy

[poetgirl925]

That whole fugitive storyline just looked like a way to write him off to me. I think if he'd been working as a character they wouldn't have gone that direction with him. It's like they decided that he just didn't work, period, and sent him to fugitive land, never to be seen or heard from again. I mean, I'm guessing he didn't leave the show voluntarily - that it was a network/creative decision.

Edited August 11, 2014 by poetgirl925

[JayKay]

Man, I really want to watch one of those E!Hollywood behind-the-scenes special things about Veronica Mars, now. It was awesome when the That 70's Show cast put Topher Grace on blast in theirs, I'd love to hear the gory details about VM. Call me morbid, but that stuff is fascinating.

[wingster55]

That's interesting...I think the reason his character didn't work in s2 (and only that season) was a writing failure.

If they didn't want him as a love interest for Veronica why not have him be a friend to her and everyone else (Logan, Dick etc)

 

It was awesome when the That 70's Show cast put Topher Grace on blast in theirs,

 

You mean that bitter producer that lied about Topher and said one thing that was immediately contradicted by actual video evidence in that same special.

Edited August 11, 2014 by wingster55

[poetgirl925]

Man, I really want to watch one of those E!Hollywood behind-the-scenes special things about Veronica Mars, now. It was awesome when the That 70's Show cast put Topher Grace on blast in theirs, I'd love to hear the gory details about VM. Call me morbid, but that stuff is fascinating.

I'd watch it! I sort of sporadically watched That 70s Show - was there a problem with Topher Grace?

[JayKay]

You mean that bitter producer that lied about Topher and said one thing that was immediately contradicted by actual video evidence in that same special.

 

I'd watch it! I sort of sporadically watched That 70s Show - was there a problem with Topher Grace?

The one I watched had the cast talking about how Topher was kind of a jerk. They were so casual about it, it was like watching friends talk crap on each other. Tremendously entertaining.

[manbearpig]

Veronica Mars had such a tiny budget that they probably would've had to get rid of someone if they weren't keeping Duncan around.

 

I'd kill for an E! True Hollywood Story about Grey's Anatomy. Do they still even those shows anymore though? Been a while since I've seen one, although I don't really watch E, anyway.