Small Talk: The Quiver

[Lisin]

Here's a place to chat with your fellow posters, introduce yourself etc. 

[BkWurm1]

Hello. I'm a soon to be former TWoPer and a SOS member (Survivor of Smallville). It does tend to make the Laurel/Sara thing and the comic history vs show runner's choice a very contentious matter. Fool me once and all that. Glad to see so many familiar names over here.

Edited March 28, 2014 by BkWurm1

[quarks]

Hello, I'm also a soon to be former TWoPer who is also pretty happy to see some familiar names here :) I swear, though, that I'm not really BkWurm1 in cyberdisguise. For one, I only watched a few episodes of Smallville.

I find myself enthralled by the writing/dialogue choices on this show (good and bad) and I like to see the reactions of other viewers. 

[catrox14]

Hi all! Another TWoPer. Glad to see we have a full Arrow forum here at previously.tv! That's pretty exciting. I'm the poster formerly known as Cat (and well still am really )

[calliope1975]

Fellow TWOPper for the past 14 years. I binged Arrow right before the second season began and loved it up til Three Ghosts. Now, I still really like it but I just want it to be better. Cautiously optimistic it can find it's way again. Felicity's my fave, and I admit, I'm down for Olicity at some point.

I read comics, but not Green Arrow - mostly Marvel now. But I used to read Justice League several years ago. 

[Jediknight]

Hi, I'm Jediknight, I'm a fellow former TWoPer, didn't change my name, and I'm also as the kids would say a Survivor of Smallville.

I read comics, but not Green Arrow - mostly Marvel now. But I used to read Justice League several years ago. 

So you haven't read the New 52?  Smart decision.  Green Arrow's decent, and I really like Batman '66, but the New 52 has sucked.

[pootlus]

Christ New 52 is awful, for the most part.  I'm reading The Adventures of Superman on Mondays, which has had a few decent-ish standalones most of which could have fitted into the Byrne era without much trouble, but that's it.  Other than that it's classic stuff all the way.

Interestingly enough this last week DC brought out a TON of Black Canary/Deathstroke/Deadshot back issues on comiXology.  I can't help but think that Arrow's popularity has been a factor.  Anyone know if any of the Black Canary standalones (i.e. not BC in BoP) are worth getting?

[BkWurm1]

I honestly know nothing about comics but I've always picked up a very respected vibe toward Black Canary in her own right from people who do read the comics.

[Zalyn]

Hi!  Longtime lurker at TWoP, just binged all of Arrow this past week and am quite excited to find people interested in discussing it.

On a macro-level, I am interested in seeing how the writers juggle comic canon expectations with the practicalities of 1) delivering a relevant story for today's audiences, 2) dark horse characters (Diggle, Felicity), and 3) actor chemistry. 

Personally, I resonate a lot with Oliver's story since I'm prior military (never on front lines) and have mixed feelings about the time I spent "out there." It can be hard to talk about the bad stuff with loved ones, even though they want to share.  The inclusion of family dynamics and the tension between hardships of the one who was gone (Oliver) and the hardships of those who stayed (Queens, Lances, Merlyns) makes this a much more rich story with great potential.

Looking forward to watching the end of Season 2 with you all!

[calliope1975]

So you haven't read the New 52?

 

The only DC book I'm reading right now is Nightwing, and I believe that is ending with the next issue. I've heard nothing but bad things about the New 52. Before I quit years ago, I was reading Superman/Batman and Teen Titans, but the new run hasn't interested me. (I just got back into comics within the past month.) I also watched the Birds of Prey series back in the day. I didn't hate it, but only Oracle seemed in character. 

I mostly like what Show has done with the comic characters though a few have been underused/underdeveloped (Shrapnel, Bronze Tiger). But then they'll go and make Deadshot a really interesting character. I also really love this version of Black Canary. 

[Morrigan2575]

Another soon to be former TWoPper joining the forum, same username.

So you haven't read the New 52? Smart decision. Green Arrow's decent, and I really like Batman '66, but the New 52 has sucked.

I'm reading the New 52 Green Arrow and Birds of Prey titles. GA is really good, I think it's my favorite book right now (also reading Marvel's Uncanny X-Men, Amazing X-Men, Deadpool and X-Factor). BoP is OK, I'm curious about the Mother Eve arc that they just started but it's not a must read.

GA has Diggle now and Naomi is really cool but, I feel bad for occasionally wanting Felicity to show up in the comics so I can get Team Arrow in the comics as well. Granted I pretty much get that with Diggle, Naomi and Fyff but Felicity would totally fit right in.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Happy Harpy]

And yet another Twopper who joined here. Nice to see the "usual suspects" and looking forward to snarking/overanalyzing with everyone!

[BkWurm1]

On a macro-level, I am interested in seeing how the writers juggle comic canon expectations with the practicalities of 1) delivering a relevant story for today's audiences, 2) dark horse characters (Diggle, Felicity), and 3) actor chemistry.

 

So much this!  Smallville is probably a case study for ignoring the natural growth pattern of a show in favor of bowing to cannon names and expectation.  Arrow seems to be more open to going with what works, but how far will they go?  I half expect at some point to have the rug yanked out from under me and for everything I love to be swept away.  Here's hoping I'm just paranoid. 

[Zalyn]

So much this!  Smallville is probably a case study for ignoring the natural growth pattern of a show in favor of bowing to cannon names and expectation.  Arrow seems to be more open to going with what works, but how far will they go?  I half expect at some point to have the rug yanked out from under me and for everything I love to be swept away.  Here's hoping I'm just paranoid. 

Ah, I've heard about how Smallville went; been meaning to see it at some point in its entirety. Part of the challenge is that most comic book stories were created in a completely different time; it's like how the James Bond character has had to be reinvented twice in my generation, and while I like Daniel Craig's version, I'm sure there are old school fans who don't like the direction he's gone in because he's less "dashing ladies' man hero" and more "angsty emo guy."

Standard heroes didn't have to deal with things like fleshed out family members (if they had them at all) and deep existential questions (perhaps that was what drug addiction storylines stood in for). One thing that really attracted me from the start was how Oliver's mom and sister immediately started complaining that he wouldn't come home for dinner and such; it changes the power dynamics significantly but also makes it much more of a real story.  At the same time, it means that decisions by Oliver have real consequences for his relationships with everyone else.

One thing I really liked about Merlin was that it played on viewer knowledge and expectations: it was like the writers knew what was going on in my head (I like reading multiple King Arthur interpretations, such as Mists of Avalon and Winter King) and deliberately played with me.  That kept the story fresh and surprising for me as a viewer while also rewarding me for coming in with knowledge of the canon.

I also think it says something that the original character - Diggle - and the basically-original character - Felicity - are so wildly popular.  They are fresh and not burdened by having to be something they're expected to be and can instead be glue to hold everyone together.

[Lisin]

The Small Talk topic is for:

• Introductions
• Off-topic chatter
• Having virtual tea with forum buddies
  

This is NOT a topic for actual show discussion. When you want to talk about the show:

1. Figure out the nature of the topic you want to talk about
2. Look for an existing topic that matches or fits
3. If there is NOT an existing topic that fits, CREATE ONE!
   

Examples of topics that populate show forums include (but by no means are limited to):

• Character topics
• Episode topics
• Season topics
• Spoiler topics
• Speculation topics
• In the Media topics
• Favourite X topics
• ...you get the idea
  

Happy trails beyond Small Talk!

[Zalyn]

For TWoP immigrants: The TWoP recaps will stay up in archived form, but the forums will still disappear.

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/forum-529/announcement-92-twop-content-staying-online;-site-still-closing/

http://recode.net/2014/04/01/after-fan-complaints-nbcu-to-keep-television-without-pity-and-dailycandy-archives-public/

Inaccuracy in reporting, as usual. I've been looking at the Internet Archive for info.  It looks like the forums are being archived.

http://archive.org/web/
 

http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

[quarks]

I laughed:

https://www.facebook.com/christopherjonescomicart/posts/644979225539676

[Zalyn]

Stephen Amell posts some great ones on his FB.  It's almost enough to make me reactivate my account.  Almost.

https://www.facebook.com/stephenamell

[bravelittletoaster]

Amell really does it for the 2% of me that's straight.  I have a total boy crush on him.  He just seems like a genuinely nice guy, and I find him exceedingly nice to look at, for whatever that's worth coming from a lesbian.

[Carrie Ann]

I find him almost unbearably attractive. Stephen, more than Oliver/Arrow. I think it's because Stephen smiles and laughs so much more than Oliver does. Plus, on Twitter, if he makes a spelling/grammar mistake, he always gets mad at himself and corrects it. Grammar nerds are hot.

He posted a video the other day of him playing peekaboo with his baby, and I almost died. 

[SleepDeprived]

Well, hi, guys! So this is the new watchtower where all the snarky peeps have gone to discuss television obsessively... Shiny. There's so many individual threads, though, I'm going to have to start getting used to that. In the meantime, looks like I've a lot of reading to catch up on over here.

[BkWurm1]

Welcome! 

I thought going back to the multiple threads would take some time to get used to but I've found it to be fairly easy.  It's fun to click on Arrow and see all the yellow stars. 

I've found that we get just as good a discussion of the individual episode and might even be doing a bit better on the individual character issues since the shiny spoilers get their own thread and so character conversations don't get derailed and forgotten.

[Zalyn]

I'm glad the multiple threads are working for you.  I'm an old fogie and am used to threading on LJ, so it feels much more organized and easier to keep a train of thought going.  And yes, it's like having lots of presents for your birthday instead of just one big one!

[Jediknight]

The only DC book I'm reading right now is Nightwing, and I believe that is ending with the next issue.

It's ending but Dick Grayson is going to still be around, as a superspy.  Yep, not as a superhero, but as a freaking spy.

[BkWurm1]

Brought over from Streets of Fire

Maybe not in a fan capacity, but still there and more likely to become involved in fandom than the audience for Castle or NCIS or other shows that draw a more mature and less 'plugged in' demographic.

 

Castle probably isn't the best example.  Just because the show was once called the male version of Murder She Wrote doesn't make it merely a top pick for the granny crowd. This is Nathan Fillion we are talking about.  Captain Tightpants himself, a king of the Twittersphere with as many followers as  Arrow gets viewers. I can't fathom why NCIS is the number one show on TV and I'm happy to give credit to the less computer savvy but be nice to my Castle.  It's a favorite show of mine, but one I've never felt the need to join the fandom for.  I think fandom in general happen at least for me only when I need something more than just the episodes.

With Arrow it was a combination of excitement and dread.  Back in the day with Gilmore Girls it was because I loved it so much that I needed more to keep me happy in between episodes.  With Smallville it might have started with anticipation and then turned into fear and loathing and a need for others to let me know I wasn't alone in what I was seeing.  

 

I think that while some shows have a greater percentage of older viewers, often these shows are on the main channels and still pull in higher numbers of viewers so that they can have lots of non tech savvy viewer AND very well might have the same kind of number of younger viewers as the shows that tend to just pull in the younger viewers.  I haven't crunched the numbers specifically but in looking at ratings and demographics that's what I've seen a lot. 

 

I think some shows just don't inspire much in the way of a fandom.  The ones that do seem to be ones that inspire possibilities like scifi and fantasy, or have a promise of a special relationship or some other ingredient that makes it stick in the brain.  Being content with a show means I'm only merely going to take what happens.

[Chairman Meow]

Hi!  I'm another TWoPer (soon to be former *imagine sobbing gif here*) hoping to make this my new home to get my fix for snark and critical tv commentary!   I'm so happy to see so many familiar faces!  At least on the Arrow threads, since that's where I've spent the most time lately on TWoP. 

 

I followed Bkwrm1 over from Streets of Fire to continue an OT discussion!

 

I'm happy to give credit to the less computer savvy but be nice to my Castle.  It's a favorite show of mine, but one I've never felt the need to join the fandom for.

 

I wasn't trying to be mean to Castle, as it's one of my favorites as well, and I certainly wasn't trying to say that it's only for old people.  It's just that by virtue of being on ABC, rather than CW or MTV - it's more likely to have larger portions of an audience that doesn't spend hours on twitter, tumblr, facebook or entertainment discussion boards talking about tv.   So the addage that says 'the vocal minority online isn't an accurate picture of how the average viewer feels' is probably more true for a show like Castle (even with Nathan Fillion being King of the twittersphere) than it is for a show like Arrow (or Teen Wolf) that probably has a much higher percentage of it's audience live tweeting and jumping on tumblr to reblog gifsets and meta commentary immediately following the show. 

 

Not that Arrow doesn't also have audience members who are completely clueless about online fandom.  My dad, for one, is almost 70 and loves Arrow, but doesn't even own a computer, let alone a smart phone. 

 

 

[BkWurm1]

Hi!  I'm another TWoPer (soon to be former *imagine sobbing gif here*) hoping to make this my new home to get my fix for snark and critical tv commentary!

 

Welcome!  I can hardly believe that this time next month TWoP will no longer exist.  :(

 

It's just that by virtue of being on ABC, rather than CW or MTV - it's more likely to have larger portions of an audience that doesn't spend hours on twitter, tumblr, facebook or entertainment discussion boards talking about tv.   So the addage that says 'the vocal minority online isn't an accurate picture of how the average viewer feels' is probably more true for a show like Castle

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I misunderstood and thought you were talking just numbers of people who could be on line.  Yes I'd expect Arrow to have a higher percentage of it's viewers talking about the show online than the percentage of Castle's viewers.

 

My mother also likes Castle but in addition to not going on line to talk about it, she's also of a generation that doesn't believe in getting too excited about things on television.  (Insert long suffering eye roll) 

[Chairman Meow]

My mother also likes Castle but in addition to not going on line to talk about it, she's also of a generation that doesn't believe in getting too excited about things on television.  (Insert long suffering eye roll)

 

 

*raises praise hands*  PREACH it!  The number of times my mother has told me to grow up when she overhears me talking about anything 'fannish' are beyond measure.  I figure I'm a home-owning-married-college-graduate with a child of my own, I'm as grown up as I'm going to get!!! 

[statsgirl]

Was your mother by any chance of the generation that fainted at a Beatles appearance?  Or even earlier for a bobby socked Frank Sinatra?

[BkWurm1]

Nope.  She was pre Beetles and never impressed by Elvis the Pelvis and can't even remember what records she used to listen to.  She did share Cary Grant and Rock Hudson with me, though even with that she just thought they were "talented". 

 

I don't  think she's ever come close to a fan girl moment.

[Chairman Meow]

The only thing my mom fangirls over is Suze Ormand.  Although, she and my dad did run into the lead singer of Alabama in a Tennesee Walmart one time, she was pretty excited when she called to tell me about it. 

[BkWurm1]

Said my final goodbyes over on TWoP. I am absurdly upset right now.

Hugs to everyone here!!

[Tangerine]

Hello! I am Tangerine, also a former TWOPer and Smallville survivor (well, I don't know if I survived because I gave up in Season 6). 

[BkWurm1]

Welcome Tangerine!! And by my estimate, season six was a very good time to get out of Smallville. You are probably saner for the choice. ;)

[Tangerine]

Thank you @BkWurm1! Yeah it was when they started with the whole Lex and Lana thing that I was all "Nope! I'm out of here."

[Chairman Meow]

Said my final goodbyes over on TWoP. I am absurdly upset right now.

Hugs to everyone here!!

I got in a ridiculous argument with Mr. Chairman Meow when he teased me for being so upset about TWoP closing down.

[BkWurm1]

You have my sympathy.

 

My friends tried to be supportive but at the same time they were giving me "I'm kind of concerned about your mental health right now" kind of looks.

 

It's an end of an era and it represented the first place where I felt like my desire to dissect and explore all the little details in something fictional wasn't met with impatience or dismissal. Maybe it sounds like something superficial but really it was the first time I felt accepted for who I am. Just because a big part of who I am is the least glamorous or exciting thing ever doesn't mean it's not important.   

[statsgirl]

Mr. statsgirl didn't understand either, especially when I would get up in the middle of the night, turn on my computer, and edit a post because I was afraid it was going to get a warn.  The inconsistent moderating just drove me crazy -- what was okay on one thread was a horrible sin on another. I once got a warn for failing to cite my sources (!) when I made a sociological comment about male fidelity,

 

But it was home for fifteen years and the only place where I felt like I was back in university, arguing irrelevant things till the early hours of the morning.  I'm happy to be here with you all, but I will miss TWoP terribly.

Edited June 4, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

TWOP was the best forum, it had the best layout and the best people (minus some mods). It will be missed. Before that I didn't know that there were other people out there that obsessed over tv shows like me. My friends and family didn't understand my need to talk about the show after aired. So I was so happy when I found Mighty Big TV, that later became TWOP. Even when the mods pissed me off, I would say I'm not coming back but I always did. Because there was no place else that was as good as they were and had intelligent people to discuss the show with. 

[BkWurm1]

II think I got a couple warnings over the years, but I didn't move around too much on TWoP and that probably made a difference.  I tended to have only one big obsession at a time so conversely only dealt with one mod at a time and in the Smallville thread, boy did they have their work cut out for them. 

 

I think we wore out about 4 mods but they all seemed consistent but then the same arguments kept popping up and then being debated by the experts until the new comer had a breakdown and would get frustrated and start spouting vitriol and breaking the rules thus making it pretty clear what lines not to cross.   

 

I'm sure there were times and mods that overstepped but I've been surprised by the comments I've read on other sites by those that have been banned.  I think there is a general lack of understanding of what board on boards meant and thus many seem to refuse to accept that they did anything wrong and instead have come up with the idea that anyone who disagreed with their posts automatically reported them over and over until the mods caved.  One thing I never felt was partiality from the mods and I think I reported a total of one post in 9 years.   

[Sakura12]

Things got pretty heated in the Lost forum towards the end, that shipper war is the reason I stopped shipping on tv shows. I like couples together when the chemistry is there but I don't get invested in them anymore. I feel I keep my sanity that way. :D

[BkWurm1]

I stopped watching Lost when the writing was on the wall that they weren't going to handle Kate and Jack in the manner in which I was hoping for.  There were things that I may have eventually gone back for but then I heard about the ending and that knid of killed any desire I had to see any of it. 

 

Until Smallville I've always thought I could pick out the end game romance so shipping was easy for me.  The only time I had been wrong was when actors left the show for other reasons.  But then I hit Smallville and all the signs pointed me in one direction except for the name problem.  Now I'm back with the same problem with Arrow. 

[catrox14]

Oh man. The Supernatural forum at TWoP was a thing to behold.  I wasn't a SPN fan until quite recently but reading through that forum was a hoot.  Holy cow that shipping wars, the Destiel vs Wincest fights the Sam v Dean wars.  Epic to read. I'm so glad I was not a part of that back then.  Eep.  I love the show but man that forum was something else.

[Starfish35]

Saying Hello - didn't realize what this thread was. :) Also a former TWoPer, although I lurked for years before getting an account just a few months ago, only for the forum to go away!! :( I'm sorry!! I didn't mean to do it I swear!!! *sobs*

Anyway, I wasn't going to come over here. I figured since I wasn't planning on watching Arrow next season what was the point? But when TWoP disappeared I found I wasn't ready to stop talking about it yet. *sheepish grin* So here I am.

I also claim membership in the SoS club (survivors of Smallville). I made it six seasons before I couldn't take it anymore. :( Ah well.

[statsgirl]

Starfish, that is why you should never deny yourself the indulgence.

 

Shipping wars -- one of the worst was House because the showrunners deliberately fanned the flames because they thought it was fun to get the fans all het up, and IMO because EP Katie Jacobs saw herself as Cuddy in the House/Cuddy relationship. (I won't say romance because it was more like a war zone.)  Since they were never going to let House be in a good relationship, they shouldn't have kept shoving romantic text and subtext at him.  It was one of the things that drove me away from the show and the boards..Even last year's Tubey awards, Jennifer Morrison won a couple of worst actress categories for Once Upon A Time, not deserved but some Cuddy/Huddy fans had vowed that they would get Cameron fans for this. 

[Sakura12]

I also claim membership in the SoS club (survivors of Smallville). I made it six seasons before I couldn't take it anymore. :( Ah well.

You're stronger than I was, I made it through all 10!

 

I stuck with Lost too. I did tend to stick with shows, but now I find it easier to give up on them since there are so many more choices now that Cable channels have been putting out some quality stuff. 

 

I'll be marathoning Orange is the New Black all day tomorrow.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Sakura12

[Moviesnob]

I didn't watch Smallville when it was live, but my husband did, and he's been after me to finish the series. I've been stuck mid-way through season seven for about a year now. I rage quit after the 100th episode, and would go back, get pissy again, drop it, rinse/repeat. So far I've made it three discs into season seven. Hubby keeps telling me Lana "fades away" and I know I'm past halfway and just need to get it finished. I really liked going to the TWOP forums, the old threads on the show and reading reaction right after an ep aired. I'm missing it!

[catrox14]

I think I must be more of a complete-ist than I realized. Or I just don't like to quit shows. I made it through all 10 seasons of Smallville and I'm actually glad I stuck it out. I thought it had a nice resurgence in the last two seasons.  I didn't watch SPN from the beginning but despite my loathing of the most current developments I'm sure I'll show up when it's back in the fall. I stuck with BSG, LOST, Alias all the way through.  So yeah it takes a lot for me to quit a show but once I do, I'm out forever. 

[Starfish35]

You're stronger than I was, I made it through all 10!

I would say you're definitely stronger than me. :) The fake baby plot did me in, and then when I heard they were going to do another run at Clana in season seven, that was it. I couldn't take it anymore.

I did actually watch the finale, but obviously after missing most of the last four seasons, I was missing context for quite a bit of it.

I stuck with Lost too. I did tend to stick with shows, but now I find it easier to give up on them since there are so many more choices now that Cable channels have been putting out some quality stuff.

Between Smallville and Stargate Atlantis, I learned the folly of sticking with a show when it's just stressing you out. ;) Hence my dropping Merlin very early in season two (and that ended worse than I ever feared, so no regrets), and dropping Arrow now. I will keep lurking here however and trust you all to keep me informed when it's safe to return. (FYI that's when Katie Cassidy leaves the show - lol).

I think I must be more of a complete-ist than I realized. Or I just don't like to quit shows. I made it through all 10 seasons of Smallville and I'm actually glad I stuck it out. I thought it had a nice resurgence in the last two seasons. I didn't watch SPN from the beginning but despite my loathing of the most current developments I'm sure I'll show up when it's back in the fall. I stuck with BSG, LOST, Alias all the way through. So yeah it takes a lot for me to quit a show but once I do, I'm out forever.

I will occasionally pick up a show again later down the road. I started watching NCIS again this last season due to Cote de Pablo's departure. Not because I hated Ziva (I didn't), but her leaving took Tiva permanently off the table, and that was the biggest reason I stopped watching. Honestly, I wouldn't mind going back and watching those final four seasons of Smallville, now that I know how it ends and no longer have the emotional investment, if they were available free streaming somewhere like Netflix. There's things I'm curious about - like how in the world did Chloe and Oliver end up married? And who is Tess? Etc. But they're not, and I'm certainly not going to buy them.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Starfish35

[dtissagirl]

Chloe and Oliver are the reason I watched Smallville. I had seen random episodes prior to S9, but suddenly two of my friends wouldn't stop talking about Chloe/Ollie -- plus I got curious about the episode they did on the Justice Society -- so I more or less caught up with the first seven seasons , and then I watched all of S8 and S9 up to the point I wanted to get... And it turned out that Chloe/Ollie *were* pretty awesome together, and I got totally hooked on the ship. I'm even reading the Smallville comics for them these days.