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Past Seasons Talk: A is Everywhere

calliesu

By calliesu
in Pretty Little Liars [V]

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lion10
lion10

This is a little bit of a rant about the age-gap in relationships between the girls and the men of Rosewood.     As a guy, the consistent age gap between male-female couples in this show really both

dwmckim
dwmckim

In those early episodes, i really liked Toby's character.  It was clear that Keegan was one of the weakest links in the cast as far as acting ability, but i much prefered the way his character was por

raytch
raytch

Page 5 had the detail that Ali was hit on the head with a sharp curvy object. Jenna gave it to the police when the liars were found with the shovel in season 2. Don't ask how I remember this... I

DigitalCount

DigitalCount

Ms. Aria, You're A Killer Not Ezra's Wife.

Maya knew something but I'm not sure if they (the writers) ever figured it out.

And somehow, Aria forgot the clue that contained her own name. Of all the dropped leads, this one annoys me the most.

Although, I'm also reminded of Aria rescuing Spencer from the steam room at the most convenient time, followed by Spencer saying "I know who's helping Mona" and Aria looking like a deer in the headlights. Ugh. I said I'd stop speculating and I'm going to stop.

Eventually.

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dwmckim

dwmckim

Not only do the guys have an awful high number of hairdo changes, but just think how frequent they are within the show's timeline (you know the one that tells us season 3 to 5B are September to Thanksgiving) - they must belong to a hairstyle of the week club.  Are the guys just as much of pretty little liars as the girls ... only their hairdresser knows for sure!

  • Love 2
SadieT

SadieT

I'm in Season 5 of my re-watch. I don't understand why they all of a sudden made Zack into a creeper. He was like one of the only decent guys in town and made Ella happy. It seemed to come out of nowhere.

 

You can't be an adult male in Rosewood and not be attracted to high school girls. There must be something in the water. Eventually Zack's Rosewood-ness caught up with him, I guess. 

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Jenniferbug

Jenniferbug

We'll probably never hear about the pregnancy again. Thanks for the answer, SadieT!

I think Ali and Toby met up before she met with Ian on the night she vanished. Something about him wanting to tell her thanks for getting him away from Jenna? She was cold, he gave her the sweater, then she met up with Ian and filmed the video. At some point later, A (Mona?) put the sweater back in Toby's closet to incriminate him. At least, I think that's how it went down. They've revisited that night so many times that everything is a jumble now.

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raytch

raytch

(edited)

Board Shorts is Ezra.

Beach Hottie is most likely Wilden.

The pregnancy scare was told by Cece so we haven't no idea if that was true to begin with. Ali never mentioned it or Wilden...

It's been told times and times again that Ali didn't do anything with either Ezra or Ian... So it could be that Cece was lying to make the girls think Wilden had a reason to kill Ali. Kind of like she did with Paige and made it seem like she's A.

About the video with Ian. Funny how Ali never mentioned that to the liars. Didn't the video stop at Ali screaming or having an orgasm? Either way you'd figure it's something worth sharing...

Like maybe they had an argument and then Ali threatened Ian with the videos.

Or maybe they made out and Ali realized that he is a molester of children?

Edited by raytch
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SadieT

SadieT

Board Shorts is Ezra.

Beach Hottie is most likely Wilden.

The pregnancy scare was told by Cece so we haven't no idea if that was true to begin with. Ali never mentioned it or Wilden...

It's been told times and times again that Ali didn't do anything with either Ezra or Ian... So it could be that Cece was lying to make the girls think Wilden had a reason to kill Ali. Kind of like she did with Paige and made it seem like she's A.

About the video with Ian. Funny how Ali never mentioned that to the liars. Didn't the video stop at Ali screaming or having an orgasm? Either way you'd figure it's something worth sharing...

Like maybe they had an argument and then Ali threatened Ian with the videos.

Or maybe they made out and Ali realized that he is a molester of children?

Ian was super creepy, I always forget about him. In a flashback to him and Ali at Hilton Head he says they never had sex when she threatens to go to the police, although I'm assuming that's what they were there for, but then the video takes place when she gets back, just before she disappears, right? So they could have done it that night she disappeared...I can't imagine why else she'd be lying on the dirt ground moaning. But they weren't on the best of terms when they left Hilton Head cause she had just threatened to blackmail him so I don't know.

I feel like the show sets up these scenarios for shock value and then when it comes time to follow through, they back down. Like they spend all this time implying that Ali and Ian were sleeping together and therefore suggesting he's a suspect, but then have him say they never did. Is it because they realized how creepy it is that they keep writing about all these adults sleeping with teenage girls? Are they trying to "soften" Ali's character now that she's a regular? At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that Ali didn't sleep with Wilden either, despite the pregnancy scare, or Holbrook, despite him whining to Hanna that she "cut him off", and is actually a virgin.

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Giuliano Lanzilli

Giuliano Lanzilli

I feel like the show sets up these scenarios for shock value and then when it comes time to follow through, they back down. Like they spend all this time implying that Ali and Ian were sleeping together and therefore suggesting he's a suspect, but then have him say they never did. Is it because they realized how creepy it is that they keep writing about all these adults sleeping with teenage girls? Are they trying to "soften" Ali's character now that she's a regular? At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that Ali didn't sleep with Wilden either, despite the pregnancy scare, or Holbrook, despite him whining to Hanna that she "cut him off", and is actually a virgin.

 

SOOO THIS!!!

raytch

raytch

Page 5 had the detail that Ali was hit on the head with a sharp curvy object.

Jenna gave it to the police when the liars were found with the shovel in season 2.

Don't ask how I remember this... I swear to you I have real friends.

Also the pregnancy was not mentioned in the diary. Just beach hottie. Cece gave that flashback to Emily.

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Jack Shaftoe

Jack Shaftoe

 

Page 5 had the detail that Ali was hit on the head with a sharp curvy object.

Jenna gave it to the police when the liars were found with the shovel in season 2.

 

The way I remember it the head wound and deduction what might have caused it was described in the other pages of the report which the Liars found in 2.08. Page 5 was the trace analysis and so far they haven't revealed what it said. Probably because nothing of this story made any sense (they never bothered telling us why it implicated Garrett) and/or because the writers have forgotten about it.

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raytch

raytch

(edited)

Hmm you could be right but the way I remember it, it's the reason why Garrett and Jenna had it to begin with. Because Garrett pretended to kill Ali with a hockey stick and Jenna thought he actually did. So they stole it to cover their traces.

What I would like to know is why the hell Jenna is always worried about her life and

and then not.

Like remember in season 3 when she didn't want anyone to know she could see cause she was in danger and then the next day she threw a cupcakes party at the brew because she suddenly felt safe again?

She does that every season and we still don't have enough to tie her to anything.

Edited by raytch
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lorikauai

lorikauai

Yes, since they explained that Garrett and Jenna's guilty conversation was because Garrett swung something (Melissa's field hockey stick?) at Ali and missed but let Jenna believe he actually hit her, it makes no sense that he stole the page of the real autopsy report. Why not just give Jenna a blank piece of paper and tell her that's what it was?

Was the info about "Ali" being buried alive (dirt in lungs) on that page?

raytch

raytch

(edited)

I think so. But Jack Shaftoe could be right. Maybe it was never revealed.

That's the thing Garrett knew something...

My take on this is that Charles really was blackmailing the NAT gang or else Garrett wouldn't need to steal it.

Before he was killed he said to Spencer something about not knowing what the game was about until its was too late.

Maybe he was talking about shooting the videos? We know they filmed the girls and that Ian (could be Garett as well) was shooting videos of other girls and their friends for money.

Edited by raytch
raytch

raytch

(edited)

Honestly the more I think about it the more it makes sense that Charles may have been the one to drug Jason (obviously Jason already had a substance problem but Charles could have used that) on a constant basis and make him think the whole NAT club was his idea.

It would also make more sense if Charles was blackmailing the NAT members and Melissa before moving on to the liars.

Something that always stuck with me was when Melissa went face mask smashing by the lake and she told Spencer that she's been trying to protect her since "before" it started.

This also echoes what Garett said on the train, that Spencer was the one he wanted to protect.

There's been a lot of speculation about Spencer having killed someone because everyone is trying to protect her. But what if Melissa and Garett were just talking about Charles or A?

Edited by raytch
Jack Shaftoe

Jack Shaftoe

 

Was the info about "Ali" being buried alive (dirt in lungs) on that page?

 

No, it was on the other pages of that report.

 

 

Hmm you could be right but the way I remember it, it's the reason why Garrett and Jenna had it to begin with. Because Garrett pretended to kill Ali with a hockey stick and Jenna thought he actually did. So they stole it to cover their traces.

 

Yes, supposedly Garrett stole it to cover his and Jenna's tracks but considering that the police got it, he was arrested and was still released eventually due to lack of evidence, the info there can't really have been all that incriminating. Annoyingly (or hilariously if you are like me and consider the whole mystery element a total joke) despite Garrett's arrest and the evidence against him being so important in season 3A nobody bothered to mention what was on that famous page 5.

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lorikauai

lorikauai

Maybe the point is that page 5 is irrelevant? It just shows what an idiot Garrett is, stealing a worthless piece of evidence to give his blind girlfriend to perpetuate the charade that he killed Ali. Unless Jenna knew all along and tricked him so she could implicate him. I don't know. We have strayed so far from the seasons 1-3 story and suspects.

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mercfan3

mercfan3

Page 5 had the detail that Ali was hit on the head with a sharp curvy object.

Jenna gave it to the police when the liars were found with the shovel in season 2.

Don't ask how I remember this... I swear to you I have real friends.

Also the pregnancy was not mentioned in the diary. Just beach hottie. Cece gave that flashback to Emily.

 

That's what I thought too. And I remember Ian thought that Alison had died because she had been hit on the head, and Spencer corrected him (While he was trying to kill her.) 

dwmckim

dwmckim

You know something - i would kill to be a fly on the wall (well, maybe not that particular metaphor if indeed Bitch Can See!) at a snack break at an NAT Club meeting...

 

Garrett lining up his m&m's as if he was role-playing Pac-Man.

Jenna alerting him that they go better with milk...you ***DO*** have milk, don't you?!

Ian provides the creepy milk drinking.

  • Love 2
Crim

Crim

(edited)

Why as in her in-show motive? I don't remember a motive ever being stated, but CeCe did say she was afraid of Wilden; maybe he was blackmailing her with something, maybe he was looking for Ali and threatening her to reveal information, maybe she was just afraid for her life and preempted that danger. Since Ali knew and helped her, I'd be inclined to believe it was Ali-related, and/or possibly the lodge fire.

 

From the spoilers topic:

 

Am I the only one who thinks the writers are having Emily fly off into a million different directions romance-wise because Marlene is a lesbian herself and she wants the main lesbian character to have the MOST fun, so to speak? Just a coincidence?

While Emily's love life is pretty... dynamic, it's only been a recent thing, imo.

 

Ali and Maya were love interests from the books, then Maya was gone, and Samara came-and-left, but I think that was because of the actress availability as Bianca Lawson (who was the object of many, many epic jokes on TwoP - those were the days) had a bunch of other roles (not as a teenager, at last!) and the Samara actress got her gig on The Vampire Diaries; then Emily dated Paige.

 

By comparison, if we look at Spencer's relationships at that point, Spencer also had been hitting on Ian and Wren, dating Alex, and started dating Toby. After that, Spencer had brief interludes that went nowhere, and she went back to Toby each time (sadly). Even lovestruck Aria had Noel, that karate guy, Andrew and now possibly this new guy; those are just easily forgotten because they were just speed bumps on the Ezria road to Hell (sadly). 

 

Thing is Emily broke up with Paige because Ali came back, and that was actually a good storyline, her switching between them and back. None of the other Liars have anyone like Ali to shake them up. After that, there was Talia; Spencer met Johny around the same time. And now Emily has stumbled upon Sara-the-Ali-stand-in. I don't think that Emily has more fun, not more than Spencer. The issue here is that the writers are not willing to let anyone stay single for long, and Emily found herself not locked in a long-term relationship a few times, especially since Emison went nowhere.

Edited by Crim
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lion10

lion10

(edited)

 

And I don't trust Marlene honestly. The show panders to Ezria and Spoby fans and won't split them up for good no matter how toxic and stale their relationships get, but Emily hasn't really had that one partner that people love her with so I don't think writers really care what viewers think of Emily's relationship status.

 

The writers have this weird relationship with Ezria.  At times it seems they go out of their way to say that Ezria is a toxic relationship.  This can be seen when Aria has a realization that her relationship with Ezra has resulted in a negative non-typical high school experience, Ezra's friend at the very beginning of the series telling him that him dating Aria is going to lead to trouble and Aria having the nightmare we all wished was real where the principal tells her point blank that a teacher banging a student is illegal and that Ezra's going to jail because of it.

 

I'm pretty sure that everyone on the show along with the writers know that Ezria is creepy as hell but they can't piss off the shippers so they're left in this bind.

 

I also realized a couple of days ago that Pretty Little Liars is not a very high quality show at all.  There's too many retcons and filler plotlines that lead absolutely nowhere and too much bad acting.  And the premise has been stretched way too far and become highly implausible bordering on impossible.  The only saving grace of this show is the portrayal of gay women and more than that, the four girls' friendship.

Edited by lion10
Giuliano Lanzilli

Giuliano Lanzilli

I also realized a couple of days ago that Pretty Little Liars is not a very high quality show at all.  There's too many retcons and filler plotlines that lead absolutely nowhere and too much bad acting.  And the premise has been stretched way too far and become highly implausible bordering on impossible.  The only saving grace of this show is the portrayal of gay women and more than that, the four girls' friendship.

 

I realized this as early as the 2nd episode! 

crystalflame

crystalflame

I also realized a couple of days ago that Pretty Little Liars is not a very high quality show at all.  There's too many retcons and filler plotlines that lead absolutely nowhere and too much bad acting.  And the premise has been stretched way too far and become highly implausible bordering on impossible.  The only saving grace of this show is the portrayal of gay women and more than that, the four girls' friendship.

I watch this show because it's NOT high quality, lol. It lets me turn my brain off for an hour every week and lose myself in something that could never be reality.

I kind of envy the friendship the girls have. I have great friends, but we're not as in tune with each other about when something's up. I certainly didn't have a group of friends like that in high school - everyone was too busy surviving their own issues/hormones. I really hope teen girls everywhere are learning and imitating the kind of support these four show for each other. I don't really like how the show portrays gay women though - while the overtone is that being gay is fine and normal and your friends and family should accept you for you, there's also a lot of subtle negative messages. Emily is the only one without an OTP, reinforcing the bullshit stereotype that homosexuals are promiscuous and noncommittal by nature. Her girlfriends are all troubled somehow - druggie, violent, married but confused, locked underground for years and released into the world with no counseling - which fits with Emily's personality of saving lost, sad puppies, but doesn't portray lesbians in a very empowered light. We could have had depth on Paige coming out to super homophobic family, but instead it happened and everything was wonderful and problem-free (so therefore her fear of coming out was irrational???). Bisexuality, in keeping with the pop culture trend (OITNB, I'm looking at you), is pretty much dismissed since Jenna and Alison's true romantic intentions are never explored (are they really bi, or are they using Shana/Emily?) and the involvement doesn't last long. And if you're a black lesbian, you WILL end up dead. I feel like the show could be a very positive platform on the issue, but it fails just as much here as it does with making sense of the storyline, portraying healthy student-teacher relationships, and solid parenting.

But I still watch and read forums and stalk IMK on Twitter and listen to podcasts and try to figure out who A is... So obviously the writers are doing something right ;) It's a frustrating but fun mystery, just don't take it too seriously!

  • Love 2
lion10

lion10

I hadn't noticed that about Emily's girlfriends, that they all had issues but except for Samara, that does seem to be true looking back. I interpreted both Jenna and Alison as being bi. Jenna was making eyes at Emily during the Halloween party and Alison appears to be genuine in her affection toward Emily and she made that comment to Spencer about how practicing with girls was more fun than "the real thing" with guys. I find it strange that she never showed any sexual interest in the other Liars since they're all so pretty.

Regarding the "gays are promiscuous" stereotype, isn't that more aimed at gay guys? I thought the stereotype about lesbians was that they wanted to move in on the third date?

You bringing up the stereotype of gay promiscuity reminded me of a Dan Savage quote: "Gay guys aren't promiscuous because they're GAY men, they're promiscuous because they're gay MEN."

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Jack Shaftoe

Jack Shaftoe

 

Emily is the only one without an OTP, reinforcing the bullshit stereotype that homosexuals are promiscuous and noncommittal by nature.

 

Emily (alas) still carries a torch for her first love. She didn't choose to dump Maya, Paige or Samara, she is not currently with any of those three because of circumstances outside of their control.

 

 

Her girlfriends are all troubled somehow - druggie, violent, married but confused, locked underground for years and released into the world with no counseling - which fits with Emily's personality of saving lost, sad puppies, but doesn't portray lesbians in a very empowered light.

 

Samara wasn't troubled and Paige had a rough start but after that she was, in my opinion, far more levelheaded and well adjusted than any of the Liars and most of the supporting cast. Plus, it's not like Toby and Ezra are any better than Emily's girlfriends, Alison excluded. Personally, I think Emily's romantic life suffers from a relative lack of screen time and writers attention compared to the OTPs of the other three Liars but I don't think lesbians are portrayed any worse than the heterosexual characters in the show. I mean, one of the worst things people keep saying about Emily's current behavior is that she is behaving like Aria usually does. :)

  • Love 2
lion10

lion10

This is a little bit of a rant about the age-gap in relationships between the girls and the men of Rosewood.  

 

As a guy, the consistent age gap between male-female couples in this show really bothers me.  Speaking as a 21 year old, there is no way that the vast majority of men around my age would find a 14-17 year old more attractive than women who are in the 19-28 range and would consistently go after such young women.  But the show seems to be littered with couples with major age gaps:  Garrett with Jenna, Ezra and Alison, Ezra and Aria, Wren and Spencer, Holbrook and Hanna, Holbrook and Alison, Dean and Spencer, Johnny and Spencer... it never ends.  

 

And on a meta level, the older men's attraction to the teen girls of Rosewood is strange.  In real life, the actresses are 24-29 but within the show, the girls are supposed to look like they're 14-18, right?  To me as a 21 year old, 17 year olds and younger look young to me so to have a doctor hook up with a high school is pretty strange to me.

 

And PLL has this weird rapport with these relationships where they'll highlight their creepiness when its convenient such as when Hanna and Holbrook talk about Alison cutting him off but they'll portray it as romantic as well, such as Ezria (which is the creepiest romance by far).  And PLL can't have it both ways.  You can't simultaneously say the relationships are disgusting while also playing them for how hot they are.  

  • Love 7
jjjmoss

jjjmoss

(edited)

So a summary of the show then, in terms of deaths or major A-related plot developments:

S1 Aria comes back to town and Mona starts playing games with the Liars.

(Ian kills himself for unknown reasons...I guess to not go to jail for killing Ali as far as he knows?)

S2 MonA reveals herself.

(Nate kills Maya.)

S3 Charlotte becomes A, introduces herself to the Liars, and kills Wilden. 

(Wilden kills Garrett.)

S4 Someone kills Jessica.

S5 Ali returns to Rosewood and we find out that Charles, her long-lost brother, is A.

S6 Charlotte reveals herself and we find that Mona killed Bethany thinking she was Ali.

 

Hmm. One could easily make the argument that S3-6.5 didn't totally need to exist.

 

Ranking finales:

1 Unmasked - Duh. Given the mess after this ep, should’ve been the series finale. Completely satisfying (if you lop off the last MonA scene).
2 For Whom the Bell Tolls - The only relevant death that was the climax (or so it seemed) of an episode instead of the girls just discovering the body afterwards and being like ‘omg.’ 2nd-most legitimately exciting ep.
3 Keep Your Friends Close - Ah, the first finale, the first time (?) a girl is SURE who A is, only to be brutally attacked and then wrong. The fact that it’s at MonA’s birthday party was a great way to hint at her significance.
4 Over My Dead Body - Okay, so it’s not really relevant cuz Dr. Sullivan doesn’t matter. Still fun to watch, esp when they all get arrested for the first time (?).
5 A Dangerous Game - Spencer as an “A” was kinda fun. The fire and Ali being alive were eventful, even if it took a long time after that for the show to guarantee Ali was alive alive, which bugged me.
6 Welcome to the Dollhouse - The stuff in the dollhouse was quite creepy but even then I thought the ChArles stuff was stupid, and it’s only stupider now. Plus the non-dollhouse stuff was boring.
7 Taking This One to the Grave - Everyone knew MonA wasn’t really dead, but still well-done. Ali as A was w/e. I was a bit irritated with the whole Bethany thing.
8 Now You See Me Now You Don’t - Well, EzrA was kinda interesting. Cece as a Red Coat was...good I suppose given the future. The Ravenswood stuff, bleh.
9 A is for Answers - Not really.
10 The Lady Killer - Nate who currs? Toby as A was a disaster.
11 Game Over Charles - Disaster.

Edited by jjjmoss
  • Love 2
jjjmoss

jjjmoss

(edited)

I ranked all of the characters who've been in double-digit eps; the top quarter:

Hanna, Mona, Emily, Lucas, Spencer, Noel, Jenna, Ian, Melissa.

 

Since 3 are in every ep, and 1 is in most eps each season, I looked at ep counts for my favorite non-mains:

Lucas, Noel, Jenna, Ian, Melissa, in that order:

S1 - 8, 8, 15, 11, 11 = 53. Minus Ian, 42 (cuz later seasons shouldn't be punished for his being dead and all).
S2 - 9, 8, 13, 4, 10 = 44. Minus Ian, 40.
S3 - 6, 3, 8, 0, 7 = 24.
S4 - 0, 1, 3, 1, 3 = 8. Minus Ian, 7.
S5 - 5, 2, 4, 0, 6, = 17
S6 - 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 = 0.

 

I think this partially helps to explain why S1 & S2 are so much better than the others. Like, Jenna and Melissa were in double-digit episodes both seasons; Lucas and Noel were in about a third of the episodes. They were so prominent! And MArlene couldn't get a single one to show up in 6A at all; what effery. 

 

Also, I noticed that aside from the current main cast members, the only actors in 6+ episodes in each of the first 5 seasons are Toby's (whose absence from the main cast has always been a mystery) and...Veronica's, which seems a bit random.

Edited by jjjmoss
  • Love 1
cuddlingcrowley

cuddlingcrowley

(edited)
I think this partially helps to explain why S1 & S2 are so much better than the others.

 

 

S1 and S2 were way more character driven than the later seasons. Then A was just this quirky thing that made the show different and created good drama, imo. From S4 onwards all we had was endless plot and love interests.

 

And since we're on the subject, I started my PLL rewatch today. I woke up feeling pretty down on the show then decided I should give it one last go before making up my mind about where it'll stand with me. I'll confess, rewatching the pilot was way more fun than I expected. I'm doing a list of questions and answers for each episode and the pilot, at least, passed.

 

Watching this episode alone helped me come to terms with Wilden's character, where he started and where he ended, since I felt really strongly he ought to have been Charles and was looking foward to rewatching the show with that in mind. Also, knowing Ezra is lying his ass off in the Pilot makes the show so much better. 

Edited by cuddlingcrowley
  • Love 4
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