The Fall - General Discussion

[zxy556575]

At least the police/Gibson are being bought to account for some of their piss poor decisions. I'm glad to see that because it means my previous shouting at the TV was perfectly reasonable.

Did Katie deliberately set her laptop touchpad to function so that swiping up moves the page down? That was seriously bugging me. At least Sally Ann was using the down arrow to scroll like a normal person.

Thanks to the producers for Katie's thoughtful, languid nose ring scene. Irrelevant, atmospheric moodiness is just what I look for in my crime dramas.

[pamplemousse]

On 10/2/2016 at 7:32 PM, John Potts said:

It doesn't help that I find Paul Spector far less interesting than either Stella or the writers seem to

If we had to follow up on anyone, I'd prefer us to follow up on either what happens to the kidnap victim, Paul's family or even Katie (even though I think she's a stupid little girl)

Yes, that is exactly my main problem with this show. Paul Spector is very dull in that extra not-so-special way that many serial killers in real life are. I guess that makes him realistic, soporifically so. I wonder if we're supposed to be fascinated with him, since everyone in the show and the writers seem to be, because he is so very handsome (I don't see it, but ehhh) and doesn't look like your typical snaggly-toothed, crazy-eyed, pockmarked, shambling white male serial killer. I remember how when the show first came out, a big to-do was made in media coverage about how producers were hesitant to cast Dornan because he was too pretty to be a serial killer, which I found rather ridiculous. He's certainly boring and charisma-less, though. 

I loathe the Katie character. I burst out laughing when she was freaking out at her friend about Spector possibly dying in hospital (I wish, but it isn't Christmas yet unfortunately) over FaceTime or whatever. It was hilarious.

I knew I said I'd give the show one more episode, but the second episode is out and I still have no desire to watch it. Loading the dishwasher seems like a more entertaining prospect.

[Ravenya003]

I was uncertain where on earth this show thought it was going after last season's finale, but so far I'm still pretty hooked (provided that this is the LAST season).

I definitely think Paul is faking his amnesia - and of course, he has his touching reunion with Olivia right in front of an impartial witness - the solicitor is going to lap that up.

The actress playing Katie is going a good job, as I'd love to throttle her character! My predictions are that her relentless support of Paul will be his undoing. It would be hilariously apt if he inadvertently got taken down by a deranged teenager trying desperately to help him. 

(And it was definitely lemon juice she squirted in her friend's eye - you see her buying it at the store). 

Either the nurse or the attorney's aide is going to get attacked - the actresses have clearly been chosen for their similarity to Spector's type (dark-haired professionals). 

My predictions are that this season is going to move from the police investigation to the court drama - though I have queasy feelings about that since the police have a confession, Rose's testimony, and about twenty warehouses worth of evidence. Let's hope it doesn't pull a Broadchurch and get ridiculous. 

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, pamplemousse said:

Paul Spector is very dull in that extra not-so-special way that many serial killers in real life are. I guess that makes him realistic, soporifically so. I wonder if we're supposed to be fascinated with him, since everyone in the show and the writers seem to be, because he is so very handsome (I don't see it, but ehhh) and doesn't look like your typical snaggly-toothed, crazy-eyed, pockmarked, shambling white male serial killer.

It would have been more intriguing if Spector was Gibson's physical type, since the show is playing up how they each use the opposite sex for their own gratification. I could see someone like David Leon bringing more nuance to the part than Dornan.

[John Potts]

7 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

I loathe the Katie character. I burst out laughing when she was freaking out at her friend about Spector possibly dying in hospital

Exactly - I find Katie annoying, but exploring WHY she's attracted to somebody she KNOWS is a serial murderer/rapist (and, given that serial murderers do receive a lot of fan mail, it's not an unbelievable phenomenon) might be interesting.

Finally (for this episode, anyway) I thought the Horror Movie trope of having him wake up at the end was just ridiculous. I half expected him to grab the Nurse and start to strangle her!

[pamplemousse]

11 hours ago, lordonia said:

It would have been more intriguing if Spector was Gibson's physical type, since the show is playing up how they each use the opposite sex for their own gratification. I could see someone like David Leon bringing more nuance to the part than Dornan.

I agree. I think David Leon is very talented and underrated. I must admit I stopped watching Vera after he left, I was very disappointed to lose him and his character from that show. So much of the draw of that show for me was his easy chemistry with Brenda Blethyn -- I thought they played one of the best cop duos in recent memory; mismatched to be sure, but it just worked.

He would have been fantastic as Spector. Instead we get the equivalent of a walking, mumbling Ambien tablet.

6 hours ago, John Potts said:

Exactly - I find Katie annoying, but exploring WHY she's attracted to somebody she KNOWS is a serial murderer/rapist (and, given that serial murderers do receive a lot of fan mail, it's not an unbelievable phenomenon) might be interesting.

You bring up a good point. I think in the hands of a better actress, Katie would be interesting. Instead, she just comes across as deeply stupid and basically her motivation seems to be "he's well fit and the ultimate bad boy coz he kills girls, tee hee!"

[kieyra]

Relieved to see these posts--last time I participated in forums for this show everyone was still in love with Jamie Dornan.

I'm at the 25-minute mark for the premiere and still appear to be watching a surgery documentary. This seems like a weird choice. Am I supposed to be more invested now in whether the serial killer lives? If the first (so far!) 25 minutes of your premiere are dedicated to his emergency surgery, obviously he lives. The question is why you are making me sit through it.

Or more accurately, why I'm making myself sit through it, which is something I'll be taking a hard look at.

[zxy556575]

31 minutes ago, kieyra said:

If the first (so far!) 25 minutes of your premiere are dedicated to his emergency surgery, obviously he lives. The question is why you are making me sit through it.

Let's not forget the critical scenes of an officer going to Gibson's hotel room to languidly straighten up papers and select clothing from her closet. Not only atmospherically riveting, but moving the plot along at a breathless pace.

[John Potts]

When Stella was being told the investigation was being moved, I was wondering why she was getting so upset - the investigation is over, the police have their man, it's up to the CPS to prosecute*. Yes there will be 10000 forms/reports/case reviews that will have to be submitted (more so given their suspect was shot in custody and somebody died in a police shooting), but the task force has done its job.

As a second episode of Casualty: Belfast, I was briefly wondering if they were going to pull a switch and have Spector die on the table (he could still appear in flashbacks if they wanted to keep the actor). I guess it could still happen (those bullet fragments turned out to be not-quite-so-harmless, or something) and we get to see what happens when a suspect dies in police custody, but I doubt it.

On ‎04‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 5:00 AM, Ravenya003 said:

I definitely think Paul is faking his amnesia - and of course, he has his touching reunion with Olivia right in front of an impartial witness - the solicitor is going to lap that up.

I wondered that too - I don't think so (it would take remarkable presence of mind when recovering from near death to run a lie like that, particularly as we saw it coincided with what he was imagining whilst on the operating table - nor do I think he'd do that to his daughter, who he seems to genuinely love), but I'm open to the possibility.

I would flove it if Katie inadvertently causes Spector's undoing. I spend my time watching wanting to slap some sense into the girl, which I presume is TPTB's intent (at least I'd hope so).

On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 7:03 AM, SparedTurkey said:

And personally if I were Sally-Ann I couldn't have cared less if Paul got a solicitor or not. And I certainly wouldn't be making a call to get him one. Or asking anyone else to do it.

Sally Ann doesn't have the same perspective we do: she's HEARD what the police THINK Paul has done, but this is the man she's married to and the father of her child. Sure, Paul "admitted" that he cheated on her (even though THAT was a lie!) but you'd imagine she wants to think the best of him. Though her zombie-like appearance here was entirely believable: her world's going to shit and it's probably only going to get worse.

* At least in England and Wales, I'm not entirely sure about Northern Ireland, but I'm pretty sure the police don't try cases themselves

Edited October 7, 2016 by John Potts

[zxy556575]

34 minutes ago, John Potts said:

When Stella was being told the investigation was being moved, I was wondering why she was getting so upset

I didn't get that either, especially since the new digs looked bright, clean and roomy. But one of the problems of the series for me is her opaque inscrutability, so this was just more of the same.

[pamplemousse]

14 hours ago, lordonia said:

Let's not forget the critical scenes of an officer going to Gibson's hotel room to languidly straighten up papers and select clothing from her closet. Not only atmospherically riveting, but moving the plot along at a breathless pace.

Oh my god, that was the worst. I admit I started laughing and then muttering at my screen "get on with it, you slow bint!" What I don't get is...what was the point of that entire prolonged scene, from the lovingly slow shot of her getting out of a taxi in front of the hotel, the sloooow pan-up her body from her high heels all the way up her entire outfit as she walked up the stairs and entered the hotel, all throughout the seeming eons that it took her to straighten up the notes (she didn't even find out anything interesting from them as it seems she barely looked at them) and pick out clothes -- what was up with the obsessively loving shot of the inside of Stella's wardrobe. What. is. the. bloody. point.

[kieyra]

15 minutes ago, pamplemousse said:

Oh my god, that was the worst. I admit I started laughing and then muttering at my screen "get on with it, you slow bint!" What I don't get is...what was the point of that entire prolonged scene, from the lovingly slow shot of her getting out of a taxi in front of the hotel, the sloooow pan-up her body from her high heels all the way up her entire outfit as she walked up the stairs and entered the hotel, all throughout the seeming eons that it took her to straighten up the notes (she didn't even find out anything interesting from them as it seems she barely looked at them) and pick out clothes -- what was up with the obsessively loving shot of the inside of Stella's wardrobe. What. is. the. bloody. point.

I don't know! I don't know! I've never understood so much of this show, I'm not even clear on why I still watch it!

(To be fair, I never made it through the rest of the premiere last night.)

But back in season two, for example, even once they were beginning to zero in on the killer--who and where he was!--everyone was still walking and talking slowly and quietly, like they'd taken a double dose of xanax with a whiskey chaser. Zero emotion, zero urgency. What in the actual hell?

And I am a person who enjoys Nordic Noir! I watched Forbrydelsen with subtitles! I watched every bloody episode of The Killing! I squinted my way, in great confusion, through the American version of The Bridge!

[John Potts]

18 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

the seeming eons that it took her to straighten up the notes (she didn't even find out anything interesting from them as it seems she barely looked at them

I was sure she was going to drop one of them and it was going to get to the press. But apparently they just needed a scene that was entirely disposable (I guess it means the US version won't need to cut any critical scenes!).

[NorthstarATL]

I can't recall when Paul was being asked questions whether he got his dates wrong (Dornan looks great, but NOT 26!), but as soon as he described Olivia rather than giving her current age I knew he was up to something. I don't for a minute believe that he has somehow acquired amnesia which covers his murderous years from getting shot in the spleen! I don't know Irish law, and only really know American from TV, but he is going to try to get off scott free, or at least be declared mentally unfit to be charged and/or punished. Unfortunately, that's where the show will lose me, as I have no interest in courtroom shenanigans, especially if they go the route of somehow tying Stella's personal lief to her professional efforts.

[zxy556575]

Well, certainly a high level police inspector like Gibson can't be expected to secure her documents. It's not like she's living in a hotel room accessible by anyone else.

[John Potts]

Even if Spector manages to successfully run some sort of reduced mental capacity defence, he'd still be locked up in a secure mental facility (Broadmoor in London would be the most famous one). In fact, while the facilities may be "better", they're a lot harder to get out of than a normal prison (legally, at any rate).

Incidentally, it's Northern Irish law, not Irish Law. These days not quite like confusing North & South Korea, but still legally distinct (and likely to become more so in the light of Brexit).

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

Sally Ann doesn't have the same perspective we do: she's HEARD what the police THINK Paul has done, but this is the man she's married to and the father of her child. Sure, Paul "admitted" that he cheated on her (even though THAT was a lie!) but you'd imagine she wants to think the best of him. Though her zombie-like appearance here was entirely believable: her world's going to shit and it's probably only going to get worse.

I get that, I do. But at the same time the lie Paul told was that he was shagging a 15 year old. Which is not only repulsive but also illegal. While it wasn't true, if I were Sally I'd be thinking that if he is choosing THAT as a cover-up lie, then whatever the truth is can only be much worse than that.

Plus, I don't think Sally at all believes he has been wrongly arrested. She may be going as far as to not demonise him to Olivia, but has seemed to have washed her hands of hiim in a way. But yes, her world has gone to shit and it shows. She'd be better off changing names and moving far far away.

[SparedTurkey]

I swear to god, if Sally-Anne, assuming she lives to the next episode, is the only one who suffers any legal consequences for this whole thing, I will call total crap on this being a well made show. Does anyone know if any serial killers wives, who were unknowing and not active participants, were ever brought to trial? Anywhere. I did agree with Stella - she was naive possibly but not criminally so.

And I am done with the nurse. I don't want to be watching her heart-eyes at Spector for the next 3 episodes.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Gibson is faced with the shocking impact Spectors crimes have had on his family. She is also asked to hand her personal dream diary in as evidence and calls Spector a contagion that is still able to harm anyone that crossed his path even though he is incapacitated. Spector is confronted with audio and video recordings of him talking about his crimes. Spector is transferred from Belfast hospital to a high security psychiatric institute and still seems to have 6 years memory loss. Rose opens up to Gibson about the details of her relationship with Spector.

[John Potts]

18 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

I swear to god, if Sally-Anne, assuming she lives to the next episode, is the only one who suffers any legal consequences for this whole thing, I will call total crap on this being a well made show.

Particularly when they could prosecute Katie, who was a willing accomplice and knowingly tried to mislead the police. Yes, she's (still, I think) a minor in the eyes of the law, but underage offenders have been tried before (the killers of Jamie Bulger being a notorious example). And that's leaving aside the damage it would do to the police's case, since it would turn Sally Anne from a potentially helpful witness into a hostile one (as well as being - although that shouldn't influence their thinking, but IRL probably would - terrible PR).

I also don't believe the conditions Spector is being held under. You'd think Belfast would have such things as secure wards, or at least keep him in "soft restraints" (he is under arrest!). But the only time we see any indication he's been arrested is when they were moving him to his video conference - which they then expected him to stand through days after surgery!

18 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

And I am done with the nurse.

I was wondering if she actually has any other patients to look after, since he seems to have hours of free time to spend chatting with him.

[zxy556575]

Gawd. I haven't watched this episode yet but it sounds like it would seriously annoy me.

Guess I'll continue reading the forums and online recaps to see what -- IF ANYTHING -- happens the rest of the season, but I don't have the patience to sit through it any more.

Edited October 14, 2016 by lordonia

[WearyTraveler]

On ‎14‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:30 AM, John Potts said:

I was wondering if she actually has any other patients to look after, since he seems to have hours of free time to spend chatting with him.

The doctor introduced her to Spector's solicitors as his "dedicated nurse", so, it seems Paul is her only patient.

I like the slow burn of this show and that the reasons for drama are so grounded in reality.  I think a lot shows nowadays are trying to top themselves or other shows and they go way over board on the drama, creating situations that seem out of the realm of possiblity just so they can be more dramatic.

I think Paul might have been truthful as soon as he woke up from his coma, but that he got his memory back or has been progressively getting his memory back.  I'm betting seeing the pictures of his victims was a major factor. 

Unfortunately, I think we're heading to a scenario where the nurse will become another one of Paul's victims.

Edited October 15, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[NorthstarATL]

You could see Spector doing the math in his head when the pych eval woman was questioning him. He is a very good liar. I'm glad the episode spelled out under the law the advantages his "amnesia" gives him.

 I wonder if the nurse is not a red herring, and the lawyer won't be the only target as he gets his strength back. The nurse doesn't share physical qualities with Sally, but do we know whether it might be the caretaker thing that actually kept her from being one of his victims (prior to giving birth of course, which made her immune, as he saw her as his kids' mom)?

  I SO wanted a meta moment when Spector was shown a photo of Stella and asked if he recognized her where he would answer "That woman from the X-Files?"

[anne uk]

Spector is so faking it. He is a very clever monster.

[John Potts]

So - it was "completely unforeseeable" that Mrs Spector would do something rash? Only if you're completely a completely insensitive robot! OK, "mercy killing" her children as well as attempting suicide wasn't what I would have expected (prior to seeing her drugging her kids, anyway), but only somebody completely oblivious couldn't tell she was hanging by a thread

I was SO glad we saw somebody (the cop moving him) treating Spector with the contempt I would expect toward a suspected murderer/rapist. He looked kind of familiar but I couldn't recall when we saw him before. But at least not everyone LOVES Spector!

I did wonder where the lawyers were going with the whole "Spector had a relationship with Stella", though I suppose "she seduced him to get him to confess" is A possible defence (I can't see it working, but his defence team have to try something). Though I did (for once) sympathise with Stella when thy sub poena'd her dream journal (and that it was pointless trying to limit the Defence's access to it). But I did like seeing that the Defence team weren't monsters - they're just doing their job (OK, maybe they want the publicity too, but they seem essentially ethical, as in when they refused to pass on Katie's message).

If I wanted a psychiatric evaluation done, I don't think I'd want to have it done by somebody with Alzheimers (OK, I know he's not really Kurt Wallander). But if that facility is meat to be secure, how come anyone can just stroll into Spector's room? They do remember the guy is under arrest for multiple counts of murder, right?

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Dr Larson begins his assessment on Spector, who opens up about the life he can remember before his amnesia, while the killer's legal team remain determined he will never stand trial - bringing Gibson's conduct under further scrutiny.

[NorthstarATL]

On 10/20/2016 at 6:04 PM, John Potts said:

I did wonder where the lawyers were going with the whole "Spector had a relationship with Stella", though I suppose "she seduced him to get him to confess" is A possible defence (I can't see it working, but his defence team have to try something). Though I did (for once) sympathise with Stella when thy sub poena'd her dream journal (and that it was pointless trying to limit the Defence's access to it). But I did like seeing that the Defence team weren't monsters - they're just doing their job (OK, maybe they want the publicity too, but they seem essentially ethical, as in when they refused to pass on Katie's message).

The series has been doing that in promos since the beginning, and it beyond annoying. If the officer investigating the killing were a male he would likely not be in promos with Spector looking like a couple! OTOH, I think the show wants to twist her obsession with justice for the victims and his obsession with Stella as the person messing with his spree into something akin to a sexual/romantic obsession, and the "dream journal" will be the key to that, as her entries are twisted by the lawyers and his access to the journal turned into something he was permitted.

  

On 10/20/2016 at 6:04 PM, John Potts said:

I was SO glad we saw somebody (the cop moving him) treating Spector with the contempt I would expect toward a suspected murderer/rapist. He looked kind of familiar but I couldn't recall when we saw him before. But at least not everyone LOVES Spector!

That was terrific! There was a moment when Spector asked him "Do I know you?" in his full amnesia act, and the cop retorted that the look on Spector's face got really angry, and you knew he was THIS close to breaking out of the character he'd devised for himself. (Dornan is really doing an amazing job in this!)

I THINK there's something like that happening with the other inmate, but I could not make out what they said to each other in that scene, and didn't have subtitles available.

[Ravenya003]

14 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

The series has been doing that in promos since the beginning, and it beyond annoying. If the officer investigating the killing were a male he would likely not be in promos with Spector looking like a couple! OTOH, I think the show wants to twist her obsession with justice for the victims and his obsession with Stella as the person messing with his spree into something akin to a sexual/romantic obsession, and the "dream journal" will be the key to that, as her entries are twisted by the lawyers and his access to the journal turned into something he was permitted.

This is definitely the point: to make us question our understanding of attraction/disgust, especially when a male/female pairing is involved. Stella has consistently and continually voiced her repulsion for Spector, and yet people both in the show and watching at home CONSTANTLY question her on this, believing she's involved in some sort of twisted "love" story. It's almost as though people see Stella as a Katie, even though Stella lives firmly in the real world, and Katie is in la-la land.

It says a lot about how we portray, absorb and understand power dynamics in fictional relationships. Just look at the latest Star Wars movie: a huge amount of viewers witnessed the villain kidnap the heroine, strap her to a gurney and mind-rape her, yet they're totally convinced it's the first step in an epic romance. It's quite disturbing when you realize that viewers have been conditioned to see such things as inherently romantic in nature. 

[John Potts]

Well I'm glad that Wallander (sorry, I'm going to keep calling him that until I remember his name!) did actually seem to be treating Spector as a suspected murderer rather than a potential lover. Even his appointed orderly seemed to be less than sympathetic, though his "new best friend" in the centre did give a nice example of how Spector "works" his accomplices into helping him. And on the subject of accomplices: Yay! Katie's facing consequences for being a stupid teenager (I would love it if her "help" inadvertently condemns Spector).

I'm increasingly sure Spector is faking (he may have had amnesia on awakening from surgery: I'm pretty sure he's substantially recovered his memories since). But I'm so glad having carefully established, "I have no memory of the last 6 years", the cops have now come up with a case from before then. I don't think the courts are going to buy, "Did I say 6 years? I meant 12!"

It did strike me that the US cut of this might actually be an improvement - they can cut out all those long establishing shots of Stella looking at scenery, choosing what she's going to wear or getting into the bath (not that she doesn't look good for somebody pushing 50). They could probably lose a whole episode getting rid of all of them!

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

As The Fall concludes, Gibson and Anderson put fresh evidence to Spector – with explosive results. Spector’s new-found friendship in the secure psychiatric facility develops, with devastating consequences.

[John Potts]

Great. This whole season has been a bloody Shaggy Dog story. If they were going to kill off Spector, couldn't they have done it at the end of last season?

I did actually notice the cracks in Spector's story (prior to his violent outburst) - he was claiming that he had "lost" his memories of only the last six (I think) years - yet he then claimed that he had no memory of his life as a teenager. And then he started claiming memories of events in the supposed "lost" years (remembering Stella's words). But as soon as he assaulted Stella, you'd think he'd be treated with greater security, but apparently Wallander is just so self confident that he's still allowed to wonder freely after he'd beat up Stella (and DS Merlin) - it's amazing the guy didn't get beat up more often. And just how was Spector allowed to wonder so freely after the riot? I can accept that he might be able to use the distraction to get out from under observation, but you'd think once Spector's "friend" was subdued, the staff would immediately go back to "their" patient and the alert would be raised. I really hope IRL such facilities are more secure.

Did like that Stella's boss, while falling on his sword, did praise her work. Was that her actual home we're seeing for the first time?

Edited October 28, 2016 by John Potts

[formerlyfreedom]

Please note - the series finale debuted on RTÉ One in Ireland on Friday, October 28, and they are all available in the US via Netflix as of today, October 29!

[mjc570]

If I hadn't liked the first 2 seasons so much, I don't know if I would even have lasted through this episode.  Those endless medical scenes were excruciating (thank heavens for FF), although I guess they were realistic and were to contrast with the extremely cursory care given the cop.  I kept thinking random thoughts, like why did no one give poor Gillian a pair of scrubs?  Why wasn't Paul Spector wearing anything but a bandage?

Unless, as suggested above, they are going to explore Katie's fascination with a serial rapist/killer in a thoughtful and insightful manner (ha), I really don't want to see a hormonal teenage girl crying hysterically.  At first I thought she was being set up as some kind of plot developer, in the sense that she would devise and implement some course of activity although I don't know what her purpose would be - to free Paul?  Die with him?  That was until that scene with Olivia - I had thought she was merely an utterly annoying child, until she showed how secretive and manipulate she was.  I don't know how old she's supposed to be (the "dollies" last season made her seem very young, as did her seeking comfort from her mother), but getting her mother out of the room,  and reading the laptop secretly makes her seem older.  Perhaps they are going for a "bad blood" kind of thing, or maybe Katie and Olivia will team up?

I thought it was pretty clear (although I am OFTEN wrong about these things) that they are setting up the nurse who kicked Gillian out of Paul's room to fall in love with him. Jamie D.  may not be a great actor, but he is pretty.  Wow, for a suspected serial rapist/killer, there is no security at all in that hospital. 

Edited October 30, 2016 by mjc570
becuase Paul is not Peter, sort of

[ahisma]

I just binged the whole season in one day. I love this show! I was glad that Paul's stalking/obsessing/women murdering days were done. Those were the most boring parts of the previous seasons to me. Watching him try to game the system for the trial was more interesting, even though he's so repulsive. I hated that his nurse fell under his thrall. Remember when Stella purposely picked an officer who was his type to question him? I would think she would tell the hospital to get a nurse against type assigned to him. A 35-year old, 240-pound male nurse would have been ideal. 

Weak Jim continued to be weak. Downing a flask in the toilets ... ugh. Stella showed amazing restraint in not screaming, "I told you so!" in his face after Sally Ann's attempted suicide. I did have a tiny amount of empathy for the fact that the Father Jensen case broke him, but get it together or get out, man. 

Loved the ER doctor—really, everyone in the hospital other than Kiera. I liked Dr. Larson, as well. 

I'm glad Tom Anderson turned out to be the best of Stella's flings—though he certainly got put through the physical wringer. Stella ended up having good, collegial relations with him and Eastwood, though not as close as with Dani and Gail. 

There were a few creaks in the scripting. The solicitor was conveniently passive when he would have been saying, "Nope! Nope! We're done!" long before. Katie was abnormally receptive to Stella's pep talk in the last ep. I did like the clever bits, though, like them going back and finding a case before 6 years and springing it on him. And subtle things, like Paul hearing how Mike twisted his sister's arm, and using that technique to incapacitate Tom. Or the throughline of men's anger and women's anger as a motif. 

Still, my always and forever favorite is Stella. Gillian's scenes when she empathizes with someone—suicidal Sally Ann, Rose, Olivia—are transcendent.

Also? I have insane envy for her London house. Yum. 

I read an article announcing s3 that mentioned there was no word on a s4. Apparently someone from the show hinted that there were threads left hanging. I can't imagine. They could do some sort of inquest into the department's professionalism? But that would be so boring, in comparison. This season was a stretch, but the unpredictability of Paul left some tension on the table. Going forward, the only tension is whether Stella/half the Belfast force get fired or not. It's not literal life or death stakes. The only thing I can imagine is Stella getting a new case in London with her (invisible) supervisor Chris Green, and starting a new story. 

[zxy556575]

8 hours ago, ahisma said:

The only thing I can imagine is Stella getting a new case in London with her (invisible) supervisor Chris Green, and starting a new story. 

Haven't we been saying that since season one?! Don't know how they can continue this. Surely it will be a different case next time. Where can they possibly go?

I'm on the side, if there is one, of the anti-Stella. Anderson's pale, underwater acting choices made me twitch, as did her character's recurring ineptitude. How she ever became such a high ranking police officer is a mystery.

Edited October 30, 2016 by lordonia

[NorthstarATL]

I watched 5&6 consecutively, so I may not have separated out in my head which episode contained which scenes, but I was quite satisfied with Spector doing himself in. I don't know enough about systems like that to know whether it was abnormal for Paul to have been able to move around so freely after the violence in the interrogation room, but my thought at the time was that they were certainly NOT taking enough precautions! However, I would have thought that he would try some sort of escape (aside from the escape of death) during the diversion, and never expected him to be in the guy's cell! I can see why he did it, though. The therapist had said he could be treated, but even he didn't lie and claim he could cure Paul. Paul would spend the rest of his days in a facility not unlike where he had spent an awful youth. That doesn't excuse his later actions, but it does shed a bit of light on them.

   I loved that the assistant to the solicitor quit! The fact that he so quickly recovered and wanted to attack Stella, whom he had just witnesses victimized by Spector turned my stomach, and apparently hers too.

   Katie is, I'm afraid, a lost cause. Even after Stella seemingly bonded with her, and Stella tried to get her to see that Spector didn't care about her, her first reaction when Stella received an emergency call was "Is it about Paul?", because, for her, everything still is.

  Excellent acting all around. This season wasn't really necessary, but it was well done.

[meisje]

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I just binged the whole season in one day. I love this show! I was glad that Paul's stalking/obsessing/women murdering days were done. Those were the most boring parts of the previous seasons to me. Watching him try to game the system for the trial was more interesting, even though he's so repulsive. I hated that his nurse fell under his thrall. Remember when Stella purposely picked an officer who was his type to question him? I would think she would tell the hospital to get a nurse against type assigned to him. A 35-year old, 240-pound male nurse would have been ideal. 

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I watched 5&6 consecutively, so I may not have separated out in my head which episode contained which scenes, but I was quite satisfied with Spector doing himself in. I don't know enough about systems like that to know whether it was abnormal for Paul to have been able to move around so freely after the violence in the interrogation room, but my thought at the time was that they were certainly NOT taking enough precautions! ...

There were a few creaks in the scripting. The solicitor was conveniently passive when he would have been saying, "Nope! Nope! We're done!" long before. Katie was abnormally receptive to Stella's pep talk in the last ep. I did like the clever bits, though, like them going back and finding a case before 6 years and springing it on him. And subtle things, like Paul hearing how Mike twisted his sister's arm, and using that technique to incapacitate Tom. Or the throughline of men's anger and women's anger as a motif. 

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I did actually notice the cracks in Spector's story (prior to his violent outburst) - he was claiming that he had "lost" his memories of only the last six (I think) years - yet he then claimed that he had no memory of his life as a teenager. And then he started claiming memories of events in the supposed "lost" years (remembering Stella's words). But as soon as he assaulted Stella, you'd think he'd be treated with greater security, but apparently Wallander is just so self confident that he's still allowed to wonder freely after he'd beat up Stella (and DS Merlin) - it's amazing the guy didn't get beat up more often. And just how was Spector allowed to wonder so freely after the riot? I can accept that he might be able to use the distraction to get out from under observation, but you'd think once Spector's "friend" was subdued, the staff would immediately go back to "their" patient and the alert would be raised. I really hope IRL such facilities are more secure.

I sort of dragged my way through season 2 and only started 3 because I'm down with a sinus infection, but I'll be damned if I wasn't mesmerized from the first moment! This was a true slow-burn-to-the-final-eps done in a pretty graceful way since there were only the 6. This was something so well executed because of the binge capability, so the fear of Paul returning to consciousness, then himself, felt very real to me and the terror was just as real as if he'd been strangling away each episode.

Where things suffered, jmho, were in the lapses in reality (though I'm not familiar with Irish law/hospitalization of criminals/instutionalizing criminals, etc.) around the choice of nurse, the lack of security at the beginning and most certainly when he was returned after nearly killing an officer and immediately un-handcuffed as soon as he was brought inside. It seems realistic that nowhere else in the world other than the US are people as often restrained, in criminal circumstances or psychiatric, but still unlikely that he would have just been released like a dog off his leash when re-entering the unit. And again, I can't speak to how the Irish justice system works, but generally there is zero shit tolerated from a prisoner whose many crimes include repeated assaults on officers and just generally terrorizing them at every given turn. So, even if things are a bit more lax there, wouldn't the particular nature of his latest attacks warrant a different degree of restriction? The nurse choice was clearly just there to remind us of the terror that might come and that we'd visited for 2 seasons already, so I'm willing to overlook that it was pretty clumsy. From the moment he began waking and grabbed her with the Paul death grip, I knew she was lost. It felt like another moment where a woman freezes in order to save her life, just in a more protracted way.

I can't differentiate eps 5 or 6 either, but I sat up and lost my breath and spent about 10 minutes doing that stupid Home Alone face when Paul turned to punch Stella. And the cracked arm... effective. I'm glad Stella got Dr. Richard Coyle again and spent some time with him just chatting, a nice circle there.

Regarding the cracks in Paul's amnesia... who decided it was a 6-yr-only block? Did Paul really volunteer such a specific time frame? If so, what an absolute idiotic move. Surely no proper psychopath would make such a blatant error, especially given his proclivity for planning, mapping things out, and having spent a lifetime successfully carrying out crimes basically uninterrupted. It was convenient and allowed for an interesting story line, but was bizarrely specific.

What was the purpose of Paul not remembering his son? I couldn't figure out if it was simply the time frame again or if it was meant to be more substantial in terms of another fatherless son...

One other curiosity, which falls again under the is-this-really-how-the-system-functions?? title I guess: why did neither the hospital nor psych unit staff consider Paul's training and background in their questions and assessments? Maybe the neuro-psychiatrist wouldn't have been as interested, but it was very odd that, at the staff meeting intro where Paul's case history, etc. were discussed, Wallander made no mention of the fact that Paul likely had more training than most of the staff he would be surrounded by, and would certainly be a very different patient in terms of intellect & training than those he was surrounded by. There were several discussions about his possible "malingering" but nothing expressed about the danger of someone from within the fold (at least educationally, even if a bereavement counselor's day-to-day is very different from psych unit staff) now being the patient. And no extra concern about his amnesia in regard to his work history either. Odd.

Wallander: heehee!

Edited October 30, 2016 by meisje

[Maire]

This is sooooooooo slow,  as in almost unwatchable. I love Gillian Anderson which is why I am hanging on but I am not happy about it.

[ahisma]

Regarding the cracks in Paul's amnesia... who decided it was a 6-yr-only block? Did Paul really volunteer such a specific time frame? If so, what an absolute idiotic move.

I think when he first woke up, the lack of oxygen and/or trauma really did knock out more recent memories. He remembered Olivia as a two-year old, and I don't think he would have faked that confusion when him forgetting so much of her could have hurt her. And if it was completely deliberate, he could have faked losing two years of memory to get the excuse, no need for six. Amnesia like he had is usually temporary, with the possible exception of right around the trauma. But they told him the charges against him, so keeping on with the missing six years was him gaming the system.

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why did neither the hospital nor psych unit staff consider Paul's training and background in their questions and assessments?

If I recall correctly, the hospital psych evaluator did mention it, and I think Dr. Larson did, too. But it could have used more emphasis. Also minimized was Paul's capacity for savage violence. Really emphasizing what happened to Joseph Brawley would have been the first step. And I agree with everyone that he got way too much leeway after brutally attacking Stella and Tom.

[mjc570]

I watched the last 2 episodes together also, and have to say I found them somewhat disappointing.  As with prior episodes (especially the first one, with the extended ER scene), the pacing was dreadful.  Again, way too long with the medical scenes (and I love Dr. "Coyle"), Paul's discussion about his mother's death was so drawn out, I was just bored.  And that extended "therapy" session with Katie, where Stella drowned her in platitudes - ugh!

On the other hand, I thought the acting was stellar (ha ha) all around.  I also liked the action, like the Foyle clinic scenes, although I was surprised how lax they all were with this violent man and how there didn't seem to be any surveillance in the patient rooms.  There were individual moments I really liked, liked the Foyle nurse being smart enough to check the CCTV.

I would like there to be a 4th season, where Stella's underlings, now of higher rank, are on the hunt for a female serial killer with a self-inflicted nose ring.

[dubbel zout]

On October 15, 2016 at 4:28 AM, WearyTraveler said:

The doctor introduced her to Spector's solicitors as his "dedicated nurse", so, it seems Paul is her only patient.

I kept wondering when she sleeps. She can't work 24/7.

[dubbel zout]

On October 20, 2016 at 6:04 PM, John Potts said:

they seem essentially ethical, as in when they refused to pass on Katie's message

She's a nightmare for both the defense and the prosecution; I bet neither side wants to deal with her. Heh.

[iggysaurus]

I really don't mind it being kind of slow. I don't need shows to be constantly fast-paced and action packed. I'm just wondering how they are going to wrap this up with only one episode left (I just finished this one, #5, and will watch #6 tonight).  It seems like it's too complex a case to wrap up in one more episode. Are they going to make next season the trial?

[Valny]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 10:16 PM, kieyra said:

Relieved to see these posts--last time I participated in forums for this show everyone was still in love with Jamie Dornan.

I'm at the 25-minute mark for the premiere and still appear to be watching a surgery documentary. This seems like a weird choice. Am I supposed to be more invested now in whether the serial killer lives? If the first (so far!) 25 minutes of your premiere are dedicated to his emergency surgery, obviously he lives. The question is why you are making me sit through it.

Or more accurately, why I'm making myself sit through it, which is something I'll be taking a hard look at.

Thank you! I was coming in to say was it just me or did this ep use most of its time watching Paul in the ER? I forget if we see what happens when the surgeon gets a hold of him. But those scenes seem to go on forever, but I'll say to their credit, they sure made it sound really specific what was going with the different procedures needed to keep him alive and all the different injections needed, etc.

I'm no big fan of Gillian Anderson nor do I dislike her... but I thought she was particularly good in that scene with Rose's husband calmly explaining him to basically not blame his wife about not fighting back, etc.. because she was probably scared out if her mind. 

And I wanted slap the Katie upside the head the way she was acting! She pissed me off last season too.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Valny

[Ravenya003]

So after an entire season of Stella pointing out that she couldn't let Spector die because it would let him escape justice and rob the victims of closure, Alan Cubitt decides to end his show with... Spector escaping justice and robbing the victims of closure. Round of applause for that creative decision. 

[SparedTurkey]

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So after an entire season of Stella pointing out that she couldn't let Spector die because it would let him escape justice and rob the victims of closure, Alan Cubitt decides to end his show with... Spector escaping justice and robbing the victims of closure. Round of applause for that creative decision. 

Just wanted to point out you summed up my entire feelings about this decision both clearly and succintly.

I would also add that this series shamed Stella for every decision she made in seasons 1-2 that made her so different than the Olivia Bensons of the world.

I seriously, Sally-Anne lived and if they continued to press charges (I'm not sure if they said they would or not) that is a terrible ending, Similarly, with Katie, as annoying as she was the whole time - if she is pining away at juvie while Paul killed himself on his terms - thats messed up.

So, are we to understand from the 'previously' segment of this ep, that Paul killed the other psych patient because that patient had raped and killed his own sister? Because otherwise it seems completely random. And not in Paul's MO. He's never given a shit about kids before thins - aside from Sarah Kay's foetus that is.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

On 10/30/2016 at 2:28 PM, meisje said:

Regarding the cracks in Paul's amnesia... who decided it was a 6-yr-only block? Did Paul really volunteer such a specific time frame? If so, what an absolute idiotic move. Surely no proper psychopath would make such a blatant error, especially given his proclivity for planning, mapping things out, and having spent a lifetime successfully carrying out crimes basically uninterrupted. It was convenient and allowed for an interesting story line, but was bizarrely specific.

To give a serial killer every benefit of the doubt, I think Paul deliberately chose a time after he had moved from London and changed his name but also after his daughter was born because he did care about his daughter.  I think he wanted to see her and wanted her to know that he knew her.  He didn't want to have to pretend he didn't know who she was, for her benefit.  I think he felt kind of safe that they weren't aware of his activities in London, in fact they just discovered them, didn't they?  Plus, if he was completely faking, I give him credit for the quick thinking even if he made the error of not erasing all his serial killing years.

12 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

So, are we to understand from the 'previously' segment of this ep, that Paul killed the other psych patient because that patient had raped and killed his own sister? Because otherwise it seems completely random. And not in Paul's MO. He's never given a shit about kids before thins - aside from Sarah Kay's foetus that is.

I thought it was just because he wanted to kill himself without the other patient trying to stop him.  They were locked in there together.  But I also think he might have wanted to kill one last time even if it wasn't a woman.  He seemed to be enjoying himself.  But mainly he just used him in order to carry out his plan. He knew the guy was sympathetic to him and would help him out by causing a scene and then he would have to opportunity to kill himself, after getting rid of the guy.

So Paul's daughter ends up in foster care, just like Paul did before he went into the home.  Circle of life.

I just realized he also killed himself the same way his mother did!

Edited November 1, 2016 by DoubleUTeeEff
Just realized

[DoubleUTeeEff]

On 10/7/2016 at 5:29 AM, John Potts said:

When Stella was being told the investigation was being moved, I was wondering why she was getting so upset

I also wondered about this.  I would love to hear if anyone has any theories.

[orza]

When a group loses its office space because another group supposedly needs it, it is usually seen by those being moved as a downgrade or a sign that they are on the outs with the big boss and that the other group is considered by the brass as more important. I think Stella saw it that way.

That also happens on an individual level. Most people get pretty upset when they are moved from a window seat in the office to a cubicle in the middle of the room so someone else can have that nice window seat.

[SparedTurkey]

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I thought it was just because he wanted to kill himself without the other patient trying to stop him.

So why didn't Paul just go to his own room after getting the belt from the doctor? No interruptions then. He didn't accidently go into that other patient's room.

And yes I get that he was using the other patient for a distraction. Just killing him didn't seem in Paul's wheelhouse. Would have made more sense to have killed the old psych. It just seemed like something random that hadn't been set up bar one scene with the nurse telling Paul what he did and just to make Paul violent in the last 5 minutes of the show. Which, pretty sure they acheived that with him breaking Anderson's arm and beating Stella. In a police station.