S29.E08: Wrinkle In The Plan

[Miss Scarlet]

I don't see Jon as being dumb. I think he's articulate and has some good points about strategy, like when he told Jaclyn not to play the game emotionally. He and Jaclyn are annoying as a couple though. I'm sure they're really into each other and that's nice, but the constant PDA/you're beautiful/whatever else is going on is not something I need to watch. It has that "let's show everyone how awesome we are and how we're the best couple eva" ring to it. It's self-indulgent.

 

I thought that Jon/Jaclyn would have been better going off with the Josh alliance just because other than Josh it seems like they would be able to beat anyone from that group. Who is going to win over either of them? Alec? No. Wes? No. They (especially Jaclyn) might have a harder time against the people in Jeremy's alliance. I get the point that they have to make it to the end first though. In thinking about it that way, I guess it wouldn't be good for them to go with Josh's alliance, because that alliance is composed of 2 couples and 1 single. Jon/Jaclyn become expendable because each couple could just pick up Alec and then get to the final 3 by voting out the other remaning couple. So they could get rid of Jon/Jaclyn before the final 5. On the other hand, maybe Jon and Jaclyn could have paired up with another couple and taken out the 3rd couple and Alec. In the Jeremy alliance it seems like Jeremy/Natalie and then Missy/Baylor will take out Jon/Jaclyn. Again though at final 5, whoever is left from Jon/Jaclyn might join up with one of the couples to take out the other couple. So basically, all of my rambling is to say that I'm not sure which side they should have gone with. I think either one could have been okay if they put in the work afterwards.

 

I thought it was interesting how the misogyny issue was really ignored and instead framed as a politeness/etiquette issue. I don't have a problem with farting or burping on Survivor. The issue is when you say you're going to make the female contestants smell your farts and engage is other misogynistic behaviour where you choose to treat the female contestants like crap. The show and Jeff at Tribal Council decided to present these issues (misogyny vs. politeness) like they were the same, but they're not. I think they really just didn't want to delve into the sexism that was going on (especially since Jeff probably approves of it, being so incredibly sexist himself). 

 

I don't agree with Jeremy's brand of chivalry. Women are not delicate flowers who need to be protected by farts and burps. Although he comes off better next to Alec, Wes and Keith, it seems that the idea behind his chivalry is that women are not capable of doing things themselves and need to be coddled/taken care of. Like how he was saying he felt he had to protect Val when he went against her back in the first episode, despite the fact that she is a COP and seems like she's tough as nails. This is disappointing because I do like Jeremy. Some people have mentioned that he seems to have a poor attitude and is always complaining about the other players, but I think it's hilarious. That is exactly how I would be if I were stuck on an island with people like Alec, Drew, etc. Actually, I'd probably be worse. 

I wonder why no one tells Alec et al. to shove it? I guess when you're playing, the best move is really to just keep quiet, do all the work, work your way to the top and then maybe say something once the show is over? Meanwhile, people are constantly telling Baylor she needs to do more work, but that's probably horrible gameplay. It would be hard to suck it up and continue doing everything for her until the game was over though. What is the right play in this situation?

 

Oh and Baylor does seem very lazy. This is a situation where both parties (the guys and Baylor) are in the wrong. It's not either the guys are awful and Baylor is great or Baylor is awful and the guys are great. They all seem pretty awful. There is a reason why all the contestants in the post-show interviews say that Baylot was the most annoying person out there. Keith mentioned that anytime he asks Baylor to do something, Missy says she'll do it instead. Yeah, it's pretty easy to see why her daughter is so spoiled. Hopefully Survivor will be a learning experience for both of them and this will change, but probably not. Again, this is not good gameplay on Keith's part, but I would have a hard time silencing myself on that as well.  I thought Baylor's confessional about expecting gifts and not expecting anything back was pretty telling. That's a great way to justify being entitled and not doing anything for anyone else. She didn't need to bring up Josh's Christianity either. That's outside of the game and doesn't matter in this context.

 

I don't like Missy, but I don't think she's getting as much credit as she deserves. She is responsible for her and Baylor getting to this point and for building up/maintaining the alliance with Jeremy. I suspect one of the reasons she doesn't get that much credit is because she's female and "older". Like Trish last season. Natalie is doing a good job too. I thought her comments to Jaclyn when they were sitting by the fire about how awful the guys were acting was good gameplay. Subtle, but good.

 

I am not going to enjoy the inevitable teasing/confessionals about Jon next week from those dimwit guys about how his woman is controlling and how he has no balls or whatever stupid things they're going to say.

Edited November 17, 2014 by wudpixie

[peachmangosteen]

I thought it was interesting how the misogyny issue was really ignored and instead framed as a politeness/etiquette issue. I don't have a problem with farting or burping on Survivor. The issue is when you say you're going to make the female contestants smell your farts and engage is other misogynistic behaviour where you choose to treat the female contestants like crap. The show and Jeff at Tribal Council decided to present these issues (misogyny vs. politeness) like they were the same, but they're not. I think they really just didn't want to delve into the sexism that was going on (especially since Jeff probably approves of it, being so incredibly sexist himself). 

 

I don't agree with Jeremy's brand of chivalry. Women are not delicate flowers who need to be protected by farts and burps. Although he comes off better next to Alec, Wes and Keith, it seems that the idea behind his chivalry is that women are not capable of doing things themselves and need to be coddled/taken care of. Like how he was saying he felt he had to protect Val when he went against her back in the first episode, despite the fact that she is a COP and seems like she's tough as nails. This is disappointing because I do like Jeremy. Some people have mentioned that he seems to have a poor attitude and is always complaining about the other players, but I think it's hilarious. That is exactly how I would be if I were stuck on an island with people like Alec, Drew, etc. Actually, I'd probably be worse. 

 

Thank you for this. This is exactly how I feel, but you said it so much more eloquently than I ever could!

 

I find Jeremy's prickliness funny as well. It's making it easier for me to accept that he's totally going to win.

[Miss Scarlet]

Peachmangosteen, thanks for reading my incredibly long post! I wasn't sure if anyone would.

 

It really bothered me the way they diluted the misogyny issue into etiquette/"girls don't want to be around guys farting". Ugh. That is not what that issue was and they all know it. They did not want to deal with the real problems. I have almost quit watching this show several times because of the blatant sexism and horrible representation of women on this show.

 

I'm amused by Jeremy and it's smart that he keeps it to confessional. I haven't seen him act antagonistically to any other players or anything like that and yes, it has made it easier for me to accept that he (or Jon) is going to win.

Edited November 18, 2014 by wudpixie

[riley702]

When Jon was looking for the HII, I thought the cactus or whatever growing just above where the idol was buried looked far more like a sword than the pinnacle of rock itself. Can't find a screen grab of it or I'd post it.

[LanceM]

.  I thought Baylor's confessional about expecting gifts and not expecting anything back was pretty telling. That's a great way to justify being entitled and not doing anything for anyone else. She didn't need to bring up Josh's Christianity either. That's outside of the game and doesn't matter in this context

 

That is not what she said at all. Not even close.

 

She said that she was surprised that Josh expected her to give something back to him because based on her Christian beliefs you don't give gifts with the expectation that you are going to get one in return.

[Nashville]

When Jon was looking for the HII, I thought the cactus or whatever growing just above where the idol was buried looked far more like a sword than the pinnacle of rock itself. Can't find a screen grab of it or I'd post it.

 

Saw that and thought that as well; the cactus was definitely an eye draw.

[riley702]

Love your avatar, Nashville! That commercial cracks me up, especially his WTF? expression that you've captured so nicely.

[Turtle]

Anyway, no big deal, just joking about how hard it is to please an entire fanbase.​

 

We are definitely 100% in agreement on that.  I would even say it's impossible.  I like Jeremy, and he and Natalie are my favorites right now.  I could talk to 10 other Survivor fans, and they would all have different 1 & 2 rankings.  Hell, there were people who *liked* Russell Hantz, if you can believe it!  And, admittedly, I am more likely to overlook possible producer interference or skewed challenges or whatever if it benefits one of my faves, and more likely to be more critical if it's someone I don't like (you should have seen me screaming "CONSPIRACY!!!" when Hantz kept finding idols).  So, yeah, no way to please everyone.  

[ProfCrash]

Jeff might have tried to frame the issue as politeness over misogyny but I don't think that the editors did. They mixed the farting/burping/spitting rude behavior in with the demeaning of women bit. It was a very well drawn, very clear picture that the men were sexist pigs. Jeff can frame it however he wants at tribal but I think the picture was pretty well defined and the real issue highlighted.

 

I want Alec voted out next only because I cannot wait to hear what he has to say. I am sure it is going to be all on the editors and that Baylor was far worse then she was shown and that he really is a perfect gentleman who is not a controlling asshole in real life. I am going to need a beer or six when he is booted off.

 

I don't have a problem with a man wanting to protect a woman no matter how strong she is. I don't have a problem with a woman wanting to protect a man no matter how strong he is. We don't give it a second thought when a woman is worried that her firefighter husband is going to work, knowing that there is a real possibility he could have to fight a fire and that there are real risks with that. We don't have a problem with a woman worrying about her husband who is a cop or a soldier or a Marine going to do their jobs. We understand that there are inherent risks with those jobs and that it is possible they might not return from work that day or that deployment. We know that Firefighters, Police Men, and our Military are well trained and prepared to do their jobs but we know that they are dangerous jobs.

 

So yeah, Val is a cop. Does that really mean that Jeremy is suppose to not worry about her? Yes, she went to Exile and not a domestic violence call but he loves his wife and wants her to be warm, well feed, and safe just like she wants the same for him. Yes, it sounded patronizing the way he said it "Look after my wife" but I don't think for a second that he believes that Val cannot look after herself or that he controls her. She is a cop and he is well aware of that and he knows the risks because he is a firefighter and gets the dangers associated with both jobs. Her eye roll and body language makes it clear that she knows how he expresses himself.

[Special K]

 

I don't have a problem with a man wanting to protect a woman no matter how strong she is. I don't have a problem with a woman wanting to protect a man no matter how strong he is.

 

When Jon came back from Exile Island and hugged Jaclyn, she said something like, "I was so worried about you out there."  She didn't overdo it, but she did say it.  Jeff didn't ask her to elaborate, he didn't milk the moment, and the editors didn't make a point to underscore it.  It just happened.  So, yeah, the TPTB definitely prefer to draw attention to times when the women (or other weaklings*) are at risk.

 

*sarcasm

[peachmangosteen]

I am not going to enjoy the inevitable teasing/confessionals about Jon next week from those dimwit guys about how his woman is controlling and how he has no balls or whatever stupid things they're going to say.

 

I'm surprised I didn't think about this. Yea, not looking forward to that either. Although I sort of am just because these guys showing their asses is kinda fun.

[Miss Scarlet]

That is not what she said at all. Not even close.

 

She said that she was surprised that Josh expected her to give something back to him because based on her Christian beliefs you don't give gifts with the expectation that you are going to get one in return.

You're right, I should have said that she talked about when being "given" a gift, rather than "expecting" one. Other than that, the sentiment of what she said and how I interpreted it still applies and I do think it was pretty telling. I think it shows a lack of belief in reciprocity. In this game that's totally fine and understandable (in terms of gameplay, not in terms of camp life, especially since you want people to vote for you in the end). In life, it's not great to take and never give back.

Edited November 18, 2014 by wudpixie

[blackwing]

Josh protected her for his own benefit, not necessarily because he wanted to save her.  It was part of his strategy to svengali this young and innocent girl onto his team because he wanted to manipulate and use her as he saw fit.  He certainly wasn't going to find an ally in Nadiya or Val.  They were both too strong and too outspoken for him to control.  He helped to vote them out (and in so doing, "protected" Baylor) because it fit in with his overall plan.

 

His motives certainly were not at all altruistic.  It irritated me that he basically said he laid his life down for her and was willing to sacrifice himself blah blah blah and now she OWES him and needs to ruin her own game in order to advance his.  If Baylor and Missy had gone over to Josh's side, an alliance with 5 generally disagreeable guys, including the king of asses, Alec, they would have been the bottom and would have been voted out as soon as the numbers allowed for it.  He acted like the entire purpose of her game was to make sure he won, since he supposedly saved her earlier, therefore from that point on she should have been his vote slave.  Jerk.  So glad he's gone and I don't have to listen to him talking for 33% of the show.

Edited November 19, 2014 by blackwing

[Pattycake2]

Josh has been saying in his exit interviews that he knew Baylor was being totally controlled by her mother, but that he had to at least give it a try.  I certainly don't blame him for that.  I'd vote Missy out which would leave Baylor adrift and then take her to the end.  No one will want to vote for her. 

[Donny Ketchum]

Josh protected her for his own benefit, not necessarily because he wanted to save her.  It was part of his strategy to svengali this young and innocent girl onto his team because he wanted to manipulate and use her as he saw fit.  He certainly wasn't going to find an ally in Nadiya or Val.  They were both too strong and too outspoken for him to control.  He helped to vote them out (and in so doing, "protected" Baylor) because it fit in with his overall plan.

 

His motives certainly were not at all altruistic.  It irritated me that he basically said he laid his life down for her and was willing to sacrifice himself blah blah blah and now she OWES him and needs to ruin her own game in order to advance his.  If Baylor and Missy had gone over to Josh's side, an alliance with 5 generally disagreeable guys, including the king of asses, Alec, they would have been the bottom and would have been voted out as soon as the numbers allowed for it.  He acted like the entire purpose of her game was to make sure he won, since he supposedly saved her earlier, therefore from that point on she should have been his vote slave.  Jerk.  So glad he's gone and I don't have to listen to him talking for 33% of the show.

Nailon the head, blackwing.  Josh had an air of entitlement about him and clearly thought people owed him for things that weren't even altruistic and from the goodness of his heart.  So glad his ass finally got tossed out the door.

 

Josh has been saying in his exit interviews that he knew Baylor was being totally controlled by her mother, but that he had to at least give it a try.  I certainly don't blame him for that.  I'd vote Missy out which would leave Baylor adrift and then take her to the end.  No one will want to vote for her. 

Can't give him much credit for that thought, though, Pattycake2, given that his first thought after realizing it was voting out Baylor, not Missy.  He played that just as badly as his pitch to Baylor.

 

Again, glad he's gone.