Afterbuzz Show: DWTS

[RemoteControl88]

I like Jake a lot and often agree with a lot of his comments but I disagree and really wish he'd stop with the "it's not Dancing With The Ballroom Star." So what the show does not have ballroom in its title, neither does Strictly Come Dancing which is the flagship show. The fact is the show was established on the premise of teaching celebrities to ballroom dance and that's what hooked viewers and many watched for. I'm all for evolving but when you change things too much to where it's no longer recognizable, then guess what, viewers leave and I haven't seen any evidence that they're drawing in that many new viewers/audience to risk alienating the established ones. 

 

Suri & Jake were being super defensive of Allison.  Granted there are folks who just straight up hate on her...if you filter out the haters...there is actual constructive criticism there. I agreed with Darva...the choreo for that foxtrot was jerky. And I agree with Julz that...Allison has gotten better....but not so good that I would mistake her for Anna.  

[Danseur]

Jake is my favorite panelist too and I didn't like hearing him make the comment either about the show not being called "Dancing With the Ballroom Stars." He did follow it up by saying he feels that way because he's a contemporary dancer and he "likes that".

In my opinion, DWTS is committing slow suicide with their continual changes and attempts to garner the youth audience. The demographic that has faithfully watched this show from the beginning is one that likes ballroom dancing. Advertisers aim their messages at a younger audience because (or so I've read) they're the ones who spend more money, so the trend for TV programmers is to create shows that the young will watch. However, I cannot imagine huge numbers of Tweens, Teens and Twenty-somethings watching DWTS every week no matter what kinds of changes they make. The demographic for the show hasn't changed one iota since any of the new dances, formats and gimmicks have been added, but they definitely have lost some viewers.

As for adding so many of the SYTYCD styles and hiring their contestants as Pros, it's mystifying. That show has been in its death throes for quite a while, and when it was thriving it never had the viewership that DWTS has now, not to mention what it had in its heyday. Some of their recent decisions have made me wonder if TPTB hate their jobs and actually want the show to die.

[calipiano81]

Advertisers aim their messages at a younger audience because (or so I've read) they're the ones who spend more money, so the trend for TV programmers is to create shows that the young will watch.

Do the young people really spend more money? Where do they get all that money? (I'm mocking TPTB and advertisers, not the poster)

But, yeah, that comment from Jake annoyed me too. Contemporary and jazz on the show has made it less successful, IMO, not more

[tarotx]

Young people shopping habits are not set yet. They are more influenced by advertisers. 

 

I hate the added contemporary. Jazz I can deal with to a degree because it can mean many things so it's less samey. Contemporary can be one note for great choreographers let alone ones whom aren't truly trained in the dance.

Edited September 18, 2015 by tarotx

[gik910]

 

As for adding so many of the SYTYCD styles and hiring their contestants as Pros, it's mystifying. That show has been in its death throes for quite a while, and when it was thriving it never had the viewership that DWTS has now, not to mention what it had in its heyday. 

 

As a faithful viewer of both shows since day 1, I do understand why they would higher the Pros from SYTYCD.  They have the particular skill set (especially if they go deep on that show) of knowing what they are getting into as far as the tv schedule.  If you think about it you have to be good at 3 things to be a good DWTS Pro 1. Teaching 2. Dancing/Choreo 3. Managing the insanity of a pretty grueling competition on tv.  Most of the SYTYCD contestants are going to be able to do 2 of those off the bat- the teaching is the wild card.  

 

I agree they should be pulling from the Ballroom specialists only (as much as I love Alison- she is not really the right fit for this show) and as far as Afterbuzz- It really should be Ballroom Dancing with the Stars. That was the special hook.  I got my ballroom fix on this show b/c after several seasons SYTYCD started to criminally under use it.  Also, contemporary is the worst.  

[realdancemom]

I don't understand why Suri is so sure that Kim isn't going to be eliminated because the show doesn't want to get rid of Tony that soon. 

 

As for contemporary, it used to be my favorite dance genre.  But then SYTYCD did it so many times probably because it wins them Emmys.  Then they all started looking the same with the angsty reaches and faces.  So I don't like it so much.  This is with SYTYCD with contemporary choreographers and trained dancers.  It's very rare that I would like a DWTS contemporary since the pros are ballroom choreographers and the celebrities might not be trained.  Two that I like off the top of my head is Zendaya's and Val's first dance and Kellie's and Derek's freestyle.  For jazz, I liked Riker/Allison/Brittany's trio.  Of course, Allison is trained in jazz and contemporary and these three celebrities were better than most of the stars.

[comosedice]

What also bothers me with these non-Ballroom styles on the show is how unfair it is that they are forcing Ballroom specialists to do them. The pro and star both end up looking like amateurs. I don't want to see that. Viewers aren't fully outraged as yet because they haven't gone too extreme, but imagine if they added Hip Hop or Krump? Where will the line be drawn? Why would the much more successful DWTS try to be like SYTYCD?

[Mbeaker]

I don't understand why Suri is so sure that Kim isn't going to be eliminated because the show doesn't want to get rid of Tony that soon.

Same here. But then again, I think her words are colored by her friendship with Tony. Also, she may have lost sight of the other bottom-of-the-board couples. When the panel asked her to pick who would go in Kim & Tony's place, she glanced at her notes with the scores, and couldn't see any of Chaka/Paula/Gary going home either. Well, Suri, *someone* is going to go... and, personally, I do think it will be Kim (along with Victor, who they all agreed on).

[katha]

 

Where will the line be drawn? Why would the much more successful DWTS try to be like SYTYCD?

 

I'm in two minds about this. I do enjoy contemporary on the show at times, same with jazz (but less so). I enjoy the elements of other dance styles that have crept into the choreos of the standard dances, at least when it's not too much and it's well done. Sometimes production does enhance performance. My problem is that it's all too much. That sometimes a couple gets to the finals without having done more than one or two ballroom dances for example, yet they have jazz and contempo and Bollywood and hip hop and whatever else. That's where the show IMO is risking to lose its identity.

 

And hiring cross-trained people when you're expanding your dance repertoire like that makes sense. Allison still doesn't. I understand she came with fan base and reputation and she's great at her specialties, she has improved some on the latin and ballroom stuff and she seems nice. So from a promotional/fanbase etc. perspective etc. I get it, I guess. But she still very obviously doesn't look like a ballroom-trained pro. IMO she still hasn't proven that she can properly teach the technique (IMO Riker sold everything like crazy, I don't think he improved much throughout the season at all) as opposed to teaching her celebs the choreo and moves. She's a symptom of the show drifting too far off course in its search for innovation for me. Same with hiring Hayley Erbert for the troupe, another dancer with no ballroom background. It's the wrong direction.

Edited September 18, 2015 by katha

[kitcloudkicker]

What also bothers me with these non-Ballroom styles on the show is how unfair it is that they are forcing Ballroom specialists to do them. The pro and star both end up looking like amateurs. I don't want to see that. Viewers aren't fully outraged as yet because they haven't gone too extreme, but imagine if they added Hip Hop or Krump? Where will the line be drawn? Why would the much more successful DWTS try to be like SYTYCD?

 

 

They do make them Hip Hop every so often. The best was when they made Karina do it, and it was hilariously awkward, and she nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to choreograph to it (and fell over in the middle of the performance. Poor Karina.) 

 

[truthaboutluv]

That sometimes a couple gets to the finals without having done more than one or two ballroom dances for example, yet they have jazz and contempo and Bollywood and hip hop and whatever else. That's where the show IMO is risking to lose its identity.

 

 

I honestly cannot off the top of my head think of any pairing on DWTS doing only one or two ballroom dances the whole season. The season that had the most random styles thrown in where that could have conceivably happened (and it still didn't) was the All-Stars season which for the record, there were MANY complaints from viewers about all those random styles. And Kristen from Afterbuzz has revealed that the feedback from viewers for All-Stars was not great, which is why she doesn't think it's likely they'll have another one. 

 

Despite the inclusion of Contemporary and Jazz, couples are still tasked with Paso Doble, Waltz, Tango, Argentine Tango, Quickstep, Samba, Jive, Foxtrot, Cha Cha, etc. which are all ballroom dances. This season's premiere was the first in awhile where there wasn't a Contemporary or two thrown in. The couples were all doing ballroom dances in the form of QuickStep, Cha Cha, Salsa, Jive and Foxtrot. So as much as there have been some changes with the addition of Contemporary and Jazz, the show is still predominantly ballroom and I for one would like it to stay that way. 

 

Same with hiring Hayley Erbert for the troupe, another dancer with no ballroom background. It's the wrong direction.

 

 

At least she is just hired for the troupe. She may likely never advance from there to Pro level (Jenna hasn't and she's a trained ballroom dancer). And in fact this is the issue many had about Alison. That if the show wanted her so much, why not let her get her feet wet in the troupe first before just thrusting her on the show as a Pro. But I get the feeling there was probably a sense that Alison was "too good" for the troupe because she is such a popular dancer and the stuff she and Derek did together for Results Show, that earned them an Emmy nom, were some pretty outstanding numbers. 

 

The thing is though, what was so special about these numbers was that it was a collision of Contemporary/Jazz and Ballroom. So Derek handled the ballroom parts and Alison contributed the contemporary/jazz parts. And as an amazing dancer, of course Alison could pull off ballroom choreography Derek comes up with and shows her. That however is completely different than her being tasked with teaching that technique and those styles to some poor celebrity who has no clue what they're doing. And her very first celebrity on the show, Jonathan, was the definition of that. Dude, was one of the celebs really starting from scratch. And the thing was he had some natural rhythm and the ability to do okay if he'd had a Pro who actually knew ballroom enough to understand the technique and basics of if and teach it to him. 

 

Why would the much more successful DWTS try to be like SYTYCD?

 

This is what really bugs me about Jake's continued comments in that vein. I too watched both SYTYCD and DWTS, though I've moved away from the former in recent years. And while I appreciated what SYTYCD brought, I appreciated what DWTS did as well which is why I watched both. They were both dance shows that brought different elements and I appreciated that. And I for one don't want DWTS moving away from what made it a success. And honestly, I don't think it's necessarily doing that just yet. As I said, despite the Contemporary and Jazz stuff, ballroom is still the predominant style and I think it'll continue that way. I get that Jake says he's a contemporary dancer and that's fine but he must realize that no matter what he thinks about the title of the show and it not having ballroom in it, DWTS always presented itself as a ballroom style show. So it's like get over it dude. 

 

I get that he and Suri are fans of Alison's and I like Alison just fine. I don't think criticisms against her automatically mean a person dislikes her. It's simply stating the truth that she's not a ballroom trained dancer, it shows and on some level it is unfair to the celebrities who get paired with her. Like no matter how much natural talent that Alek guy may have, does anyone think Alison would have been able to pull out what Lindsay did from him? Because Lindsay actually knows what she's doing in ballroom. And Lindsay is another example of why some were upset about Alison being a Pro even if it's not her fault. But yeah it kind of sucked that Lindsay, a ballroom dancer got one shot at Pro and then was thrown back into the troupe while Alison just jumped to Pro and consistently keeps being given chances. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[katha]

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear: My impression is that ballroom dances (as opposed to latin) are getting the short shrift in particular because they don't seem exciting enough or something: So foxtrot, slow waltz, Viennese waltz, ballroom tango and quickstep. That it has become possible for a celeb to get to the finals and not do many of those throughout a season.

[truthaboutluv]

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear: My impression is that ballroom dances (as opposed to latin) are getting the short shrift in particular because they don't seem exciting enough or something: So foxtrot, slow waltz, Viennese waltz, ballroom tango and quickstep. That it has become possible for a celeb to get to the finals and not do many of those throughout a season.

 

That may be but to be fair, that's always kind of existed on the show so I don't chalk that up to changes or the show moving away from the standard styles. You can go back to earlier seasons and find pairings who made it to the finals doing only one standard or two ballroom dances. Sometimes that's just how it worked out and others in the same season did more. Derek hasn't done a Cha Cha in like two seasons - Bethany never did one (there was the dance-off with Sadie but that was 30 seconds) and neither did Nastia and that's one of the Latin staples of the show.

Edited September 18, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[realdancemom]

Even though, I mentioned that it's rare that I like a contemporary or jazz piece on DWTS, I do like when the dances fuse other styles into a dance.  Witney, Mark, and Derek do that well.  As long as it's not done too much so that I don't recognize the dance style that the star is supposed to do.

 

I also don't mind cross-trained pros like Witney, Lindsay, Jenna, Brittany, etc.  But Tyne, Allison, and Hayley didn't have any ballroom training.  They could have hired somebody like Tanisha or Paul instead.  Allison has gotten better but I did feel bad for Jonathan.  He wanted to be on the show so badly and he could have had a better experience.

[CED9]

Same here. But then again, I think her words are colored by her friendship with Tony. Also, she may have lost sight of the other bottom-of-the-board couples. When the panel asked her to pick who would go in Kim & Tony's place, she glanced at her notes with the scores, and couldn't see any of Chaka/Paula/Gary going home either. Well, Suri, *someone* is going to go... and, personally, I do think it will be Kim (along with Victor, who they all agreed on).

Suri said the same thing about Keo last season. I guess it's the assumption about the pros being the real stars of DWTS and Tony and Keo bring in different audiences (Tony is very popular with the older set, and at the risk of sounding like an ass, Keo became popular with a certain crowd because of the excitement over having a POC as a pro). They wouldn't say the same about any female pro, though. This show skews female viewership for sure.

[Danseur]

After lurking on this site for two years and then posting a few bits here and there, I still have not figured out what YMMV means. Nor have I learned how to separate an excerpt from an entire post to use it in a reply. [:::rolls eyes::: at addlepated self.]

Now that I've read your comments, truthaboutluv, I disagree with myself. You're right that there hasn't been a season where one couple performed only a few ballroom dances. What I'm concerned about is a trend to format the show in ways that appeal to youth which will cause them to stray further and further from the original concept of the show. I don't mind new dance styles added in and I love contemporary, just not too much of it. If they keep it as it is, it still has enough of the old flavor to keep me watching.

I also keep up with Strictly Come Dancing via video and it seems to me they haven't wandered as far from from their roots as DWTS. When I watch it, it stirs up memories of the earlier days when costumes were elegant and not so skimpy, Pros were not stars, the live band was outstanding, judging seemed to be a bit more reasonable and celebs were actual celebs, albeit the "once upon a time" kind. DWTS has been a marvelous escape for me during a period of ill health and it's definitely one of my guilty pleasures. If it becomes a relative of SYTYCD, I won't be able to get through an entire season, at least I haven't been able to do so yet.

But I actually am in the company of those of you who don't mind some of the new dance styles, especially when they're choreographed by Mandy Moore and others of her creative ilk. One of my favorite dances of all time was the Kellie Pickler Freestyle, although I'm told by one of you that as contemporaries go, it's place belongs on a fairly low rung of the ladder of SYTYCD dances that deserve recognition.

[realdancemom]

YMMV - your mileage may vary

[McManda]

Viewers aren't fully outraged as yet because they haven't gone too extreme, but imagine if they added Hip Hop or Krump?

 

I think plenty of people have been outraged ... and they have added enough non-ballroom to annoy people. They've done Bollywood several times (more than on the all-star season), hip hop quite a few times, burlesque (on an 8PM family show?!), and Afro-jazz, and that's just off the top of my head.

 

Despite the inclusion of Contemporary and Jazz, couples are still tasked with Paso Doble, Waltz, Tango, Argentine Tango, Quickstep, Samba, Jive, Foxtrot, Cha Cha, etc. which are all ballroom dances.

 

When was the last time anyone did a ballroom tango? They like the Argentine Tango because it allows lifts (I like to watch those, though). Or a ballroom waltz? I think it boils down to styles being not unique or eye-catching enough.

 

I also keep up with Strictly Come Dancing via video and it seems to me they haven't wandered as far from from their roots as DWTS.

 

Oh, for sure. I think that's most evident in the pro dances. The Strictly pro dances are actually ballroom dances ... and not vaguely ballroom-esque club dances like we get on DWTS. :( (Also, when was the last time we saw any of the female pros wear a dress like they do in the waltz portion of this video?)

[PBGamer89]

SYTYCD is straying so far from what it used to be that it's almost unwatchable. They almost completely nixed Ballroom; I think only 3 or 4 Ballroom routines the entire past season.

 

It's just so much Jazz/Contemporary/Hip Hop over and over again, that it all becomes muddled together. I faithfully watch it, but this season hasn't been my favorite to the point where I DVR'ed the results finale and basically only watched the winner reveal and fast forwarded everything else.

 

The viewership and demo ratings are so low so I think the ONLY reason DWTS insists on Jazz and Contemporary are potential Emmy noms, not for viewership. Even then I can handle 1 of each a season but when a certain couple gets to the finals without doing at least 3 Latin/Ballroom styles it's a bit much. Rumer, for example, made the finals and won without ever doing either style of Tango or a Quickstep, because she had both Jazz and Contemporary beforehand.

[truthaboutluv]

When was the last time anyone did a ballroom tango? They like the Argentine Tango because it allows lifts (I like to watch those, though). Or a ballroom waltz? I think it boils down to styles being not unique or eye-catching enough.

 

 

Off the top of my head, Nastia last season and I know Bethany also did one - in fact both she and Nastia did a Tango and an Argentine Tango during the season. I'm also pretty sure Riker too did both a Tango and an Argentine Tango last season. Also Nastia did a VW last season and Rumer did a Waltz. 

 

The Strictly pro dances are actually ballroom dances ... and not vaguely ballroom-esque club dances like we get on DWTS. :

 

 

Other than Alison and the Hayley girl this season, many of the female Pro dancers are ballroom dancers even though yes, many are cross-trained, which I don't think is a bad thing. I don't put the Pro performances down to them and more on the show's insistence of having Mandy Moore, who is NOT a ballroom choreographer/dancer herself, choreograph all the Pro numbers. They all look the same and it is boring and repetitive. That said, I did like the season opening. 

 

I don't disagree about the show changing from what it was when it first started but I disagree with the sentiment that it's almost unrecognizable because I do maintain that in terms of the actual competition itself, ballroom is still predominant. Yes Rumer made the finals not doing a Tango or Quickstep, but she did a Foxtrot, Samba, Cha Cha, Salsa, Rumba, Waltz, Jive, Paso Doble and Riker made the finals doing a Jive, Quickstep, Tango, Argentine Tango, Salsa, Paso Doble, Foxtrot. 

 

I agree with the above about SYTYCD ruining its show with the near abandonment of ballroom styles and it basically being a contemporary/jazz/hip hop hybrid at this point. I don't believe this is where DWTS  currently is. Yes there are things they are adding that is annoying and people like Jake pushing for that stuff is annoying but I think he is the minority and the show knows this. Despite all their annoying little things here and there, the show still resembles a celebrity ballroom competition in my opinion. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[TeeMo]

Suri & Jake were being super defensive of Allison.  Granted there are folks who just straight up hate on her...if you filter out the haters...there is actual constructive criticism there. I agreed with Darva...the choreo for that foxtrot was jerky. And I agree with Julz that...Allison has gotten better....but not so good that I would mistake her for Anna.  

Suri is ALWAYS super defensive about Allison. Back during her disastrous season with Jonathan, she was defensive every week. She was thrilled last season because Riker made Allison look good. I understand that she likes her as a dancer but she does stick out on this show and not in a great way. I have no dance training and no dance eye and only know about ballroom dancing from this show and even I can tell that she does not do certain things the way they should be done. It shows. I think this season will be her first true test. Jonathan was  a ball of energy who was hard to control and that came across in the dances. Riker was already trained in a lot of things she needed to teach him so he made her look good. Andy is somewhere in the middle. He has musicality and stage presence that Jonathan did not but he also doesn't have any ballroom training. I think we'll really get to judge her as a teacher based on her work with him moreso than in her first two seasons. 

[sueponine]

I feel so disappointed that Karina will probably be eliminated.  She is and always has been my favorite pro.  She and Alek would have made a great couple.

Sus.

[Uke]

I feel so disappointed that Karina will probably be eliminated.  She is and always has been my favorite pro.  She and Alek would have made a great couple.

Sus.

 

I think Alek is perfect with Lindsay, especially if that foxtrot is an indication of Lindsay's growth as a teach and choreographer. I think he had the least training time of anyone and they only met the day of (day before?) the GMA cast reveal.

 

I wish Karina would have gotten Andy leaving Allison with Victor.

Hehe! Just let that sink in for a moment...Victor, that sweet, happy man with short term memory problems, no dance training and not a natural mover...and Allison :)

[crowceilidh]

Thanks for the British clip, McManda - those dresses were so restrained and elegant, it was shocking. 

[PTVjones]

Suri said the same thing about Keo last season. I guess it's the assumption about the pros being the real stars of DWTS and Tony and Keo bring in different audiences (Tony is very popular with the older set, and at the risk of sounding like an ass, Keo became popular with a certain crowd because of the excitement over having a POC as a pro). They wouldn't say the same about any female pro, though. This show skews female viewership for sure.

Well as a person of color, the only person of color on the show had been Cheryl for years. I always really respected her and I think the great thing about Cheryl is that the talent of her partners run the gamut from ringer to ... whatever the opposite of ringer is. I wish she was back on the show.

 

I don't think Keo just has fans because he's a POC. I think he's a fantastic dancer, when he's dancing with other pros and has looked great with Emma, Peta, and Anna (this season's Hollywood Blvd opening number). I don't think he's a good teacher, never been wowed by his choreography and think I think he should be in the troupe essentially. The only dance I think Keo looked great in is the Val, Janel, Keo trio Salsa. However, that probably mostly has to do with Val.

 

A former partner of Keo's is a new pro on Strictly Come Dancing. Her name is OTLILE MABUSE (copy and paste, sorry for the caps). Her and her sister are well known ballroom dancers and have been on the German version of the show. I think if DWTS was serious about getting a pro that promoted diversity on their show, they would see how that pro does in other variations of the show/troupe and then transfer them to pro on DWTS. It's practically patronizing to have someone on the show who has proven to be a lackluster teacher and constantly be given lackluster dance partners. Don't "check off the POC box" just to check it off. If that's the case I'd rather just have a whole cast of people from Utah and Eastern Europe. 

[crossover]

I think Allison meant to have some "jerky" movements in the piece.  I think she does these things hoping the viewers will appreciate the change and vote for them.  I don't think the avg viewer is so wrapped up in ballroom, especially smooth.  They watch for the contestants (celebs).  The moves may not be choreo'd the same, but they're the same movements.  That's why they add nonballroom moves.  They try to make the piece "fresh" and memorable.  I like Allison but I don't think she should've been added before a ballroom dancer. 

 

Winning the MBT really has more emphasis on the celeb and their chemistry with their pro than dancing.  They have to be good at the dances but they don't have to be the best.  For instance, Amber was entertaining but she wasn't the best.  I don't even think Rumer was the best during her season.  She just had the family connection.

[Uke]

I think Allison meant to have some "jerky" movements in the piece.  I think she does these things hoping the viewers will appreciate the change and vote for them.  I don't think the avg viewer is so wrapped up in ballroom, especially smooth.  They watch for the contestants (celebs).  The moves may not be choreo'd the same, but they're the same movements.  That's why they add nonballroom moves.  They try to make the piece "fresh" and memorable.  I like Allison but I don't think she should've been added before a ballroom dancer. 

 

I think Allison will get herself (and Andy) into trouble adding/changing movement to try to make the dances "fresh". She doesn't appear to have enough basic core understanding of the dances to be able to do that. I think what she needs is to sit down with a ballroom expert after each show who will critique her choreography. 

[crossover]

I think Allison will get herself (and Andy) into trouble adding/changing movement to try to make the dances "fresh". She doesn't appear to have enough basic core understanding of the dances to be able to do that. I think what she needs is to sit down with a ballroom expert after each show who will critique her choreography. 

She may get in trouble with the judges.  But if the viewers like the routine and the celeb, they will care less.  I think Allison is close to Derek??  So maybe he is discussing the routine with her.

[Uke]

She may get in trouble with the judges.  But if the viewers like the routine and the celeb, they will care less.  I think Allison is close to Derek??  So maybe he is discussing the routine with her.

I was thinking more along the lines of Julz, Artem, ballroom dancers not in competition.  I think both Mark & Derek have helped her in the past but they don't have time to basically train her while they're busy with their own partners and all the other stuff they've got going on. I'm not sure Allison would even think to ask unless the judges come down hard on her or Andy.

[crossover]

I was thinking more along the lines of Julz, Artem, ballroom dancers not in competition.  I think both Mark & Derek have helped her in the past but they don't have time to basically train her while they're busy with their own partners and all the other stuff they've got going on. I'm not sure Allison would even think to ask unless the judges come down hard on her or Andy.

I think Allison is all about dance.  She'd ask and receive any constructive criticism.  I just pointed out Derek and Mark because I can see them talking dance over dinner or whatever.  She's close to a lot of ballroom choreographers.  She's mainly a contemporary dancer but she's out of one of the Utah studios that specialize in ballroom as well.  So she should have a lot of ballroom mentors.

[tarotx]

Allison is from Utah but she's not from a studio that did ballroom.

[Snarklepuss]

Young people shopping habits are not set yet. They are more influenced by advertisers.

 

That may or may not be true but even if it is they're aiming at an ever shrinking market as young people continue to watch less TV - In fact the decline in audience amongst the 18-24 set is increasing and accelerating every year in the double digits.  Plus they have a lot less money to spend given the statistics on Millennial versus Boomer net worth.  So that argument is kind of losing its rationale at this point, IMHO.

[ocelot]

Allison is from Utah but she's not from a studio that did ballroom.

I don't know if people realize that most competition studios that competition kid contemporary/jazz dancers like Allison come out of never do any ballroom at all. It's not their focus. It's a pretty standard fare of ballet/lyrical/contemporary/jazz/tap.

[ocelot]

I think Allison will get herself (and Andy) into trouble adding/changing movement to try to make the dances "fresh". She doesn't appear to have enough basic core understanding of the dances to be able to do that. I think what she needs is to sit down with a ballroom expert after each show who will critique her choreography. 

This is how I feel about every pro (including Derek) when they attempt jazz and contemporary. Like exactly, word for word how I feel about it.

[OakGoblinFly]

They do make them Hip Hop every so often. The best was when they made Karina do it, and it was hilariously awkward, and she nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to choreograph to it (and fell over in the middle of the performance. Poor Karina.) 

 

 

 

Wasn't that from the All-Star season where the-powers-that-be threw a bunch of crap at the wall and decided to see what stuck?  Everything that happened that season was more the exception than the norm.

[OakGoblinFly]

I think Allison meant to have some "jerky" movements in the piece.  I think she does these things hoping the viewers will appreciate the change and vote for them.  I don't think the avg viewer is so wrapped up in ballroom, especially smooth.  They watch for the contestants (celebs).  The moves may not be choreo'd the same, but they're the same movements.  That's why they add nonballroom moves.  They try to make the piece "fresh" and memorable.  I like Allison but I don't think she should've been added before a ballroom dancer. 

 

Winning the MBT really has more emphasis on the celeb and their chemistry with their pro than dancing.  They have to be good at the dances but they don't have to be the best.  For instance, Amber was entertaining but she wasn't the best.  I don't even think Rumer was the best during her season.  She just had the family connection.

 

 

Which is fine if the pro added some other movements;  everything cannot be frantic/jerk whick is what Allison's choreography is. Her routines are all one note.   Val tends to favor a staccato style in his choreography, yet manages to add shades of light and dark to the movement allowing the routine to breath.  Watching both Allison's Foxtrot and Jive left me exhausted; everything was so frenzied and danced at high speed.

 

Personally, I thought Rumer was one of the best her season (even though it take me a bit to warm up to her) and I thought she brought out the best of Val's choreography.

[boyznkatz]

I don't think Keo just has fans because he's a POC. I think he's a fantastic dancer, when he's dancing with other pros and has looked great with Emma, Peta, and Anna (this season's Hollywood Blvd opening number). I don't think he's a good teacher, never been wowed by his choreography and think I think he should be in the troupe essentially. The only dance I think Keo looked great in is the Val, Janel, Keo trio Salsa. However, that probably mostly has to do with Val.

 

In fairness to Keo, he got two partners he couldn't possibly do much with. Chaka Khan wasn't a Gladys Knight or Patti Labelle. She couldn't move at all. Lolo Jones seemed freaked out about doing the show. I guess he could have done more with Charlotte, but she's the type that viewers of the show don't like. I don't think she would have done well unless she got someone with a rabid fanbase like Derek or Val. I would like to see how he could do with someone like Bindi or Alexa.

[realdancemom]

Allison is from Utah but she's not from a studio that did ballroom.

Yes, she's from Dance Club.  They don't do ballroom.  The cross-trained pros on DWTS that come from Utah are from The Vibe or Center Stage.  Those two studios compete in ballroom as well as jazz, hip-hop, contemporary, etc.  However, you can be a member of a jazz company at those two studios and not do ballroom and vice versa.  Although, you will find students that compete in all three companies: jazz/lyrical, ballroom, and hip-hop.

Edited September 22, 2015 by realdancemom

[ocelot]

Yes, she's from Dance Club.  They don't do ballroom.  The cross-trained pros on DWTS that come from Utah are from The Vibe or Center Stage.  Those two studios compete in ballroom as well as jazz, hip-hop, contemporary, etc.  However, you can be a member of a jazz company at those two studios and not do ballroom and vice versa.  Although, you will find students that compete in all three companies: jazz/lyrical, ballroom, and hip-hop.

Jenna is a good example of that. She competed and won high level awards in both youth ballroom competitions with her partner Landon and also on the mainly contemp/jazz circuit at national competitions like The Dance Awards with contemporary. All the other Vibe girls that have come onto these shows seem to have been more focused on one than the other but she did both. Lindsay Witney and Brittany more focused on ballroom, Brooklyn and Tanisha on contemporary and jazz.

[Uke]

All the other Vibe girls that have come onto these shows seem to have been more focused on one than the other but she did both. Lindsay Witney and Brittany more focused on ballroom, Brooklyn and Tanisha on contemporary and jazz.

 

I'm puzzled about Tanisha. According to her SYTYCD bio, her genre is Latin Ballroom. But she's more noted for her contemporary and jazz. I recall some years ago she used to fly to LA during school vacations to have a few weeks of master classes with Mark in contemporary/jazz (or at least that's all we saw in the little videos that were posted at the time). So why would her SYTYCD genre be Latin Ballroom?

[truthaboutluv]

After seeing last night's show, I call bullshit on Juelz and Darvina's whole "what was everyone talking about, Mark was fine, he wasn't upset about anything." I think that backstage conversation with him and Alexa made it clear that Mark was bothered by a lot of the same things many posters commented on. I thought it was especially interesting when he even told Alexa that she was more focused on Carlos while Carlos came out there ready to compete and do his thing.

 

So many posters said exactly that and there was the shot of them in the sky-box after getting their scores where Mark is clearly trying to engage Alexa and she was focused on hugging and playing kissy face with Carlos. So yeah, whatever Jeulz and Darvina, so many viewers were not just crazy and imagining things. Mark is the first person to tell you that he can wear his emotions on his sleeve and the fact that so many people picked up on something enough to comment on it, clearly means he was irritated. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[realdancemom]

I'm puzzled about Tanisha. According to her SYTYCD bio, her genre is Latin Ballroom. But she's more noted for her contemporary and jazz. I recall some years ago she used to fly to LA during school vacations to have a few weeks of master classes with Mark in contemporary/jazz (or at least that's all we saw in the little videos that were posted at the time). So why would her SYTYCD genre be Latin Ballroom?

A lot of the Vibe dancers do that even if they are better at contemporary/jazz.  It's actually smart.  There are a lot more contemporary/jazz dancers trying to get on SYTYCD than there are ballroom dancers.  Also, some of the ballroom dancers are not cross-trained so they have a difficult time passing the Vegas contemporary/jazz/hip-hop rounds.  So the cross-trained ballroom dancers have an advantage over them.  However, this season, SYTYCD wanted to focus on Stage vs. Street.  They made it more difficult for ballroom dancers.  There wasn't any ballroom rounds in Vegas.  There was also hardly any ballroom dances on the show. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by realdancemom

[Uke]

A lot of the Vibe dancers do that even if they are better at contemporary/jazz.  It's actually smart.  There are a lot more contemporary/jazz dancers trying to get on SYTYCD than there are ballroom dancers.  Also, some of the ballroom dancers are not cross-trained so they have a difficult time passing the Vegas contemporary/jazz/hip-hop rounds.  So the cross-trained ballroom dancers have an advantage over them.  However, this season, SYTYCD wanted to focus on Stage vs. Street.  They made it more difficult for ballroom dancers.  There wasn't any ballroom rounds in Vegas.  There was also hardly any ballroom dances on the show. 

 

That's very interesting. Thank you for explaining. I didn't think of the strategizing involved.

[truthaboutluv]

This week's show.

 

 

I usually like Jake but this is the second week he's bugging me. Jake's comment about the lifts made no sense but I guess it's not so surprising for someone who seems to think the show should be more than just ballroom and goes on about how it's not "Dancing With the Ballroom Stars". Because I feel like if Jake cared a lick about ballroom he'd know what the difference is about calling out a lift in a ballroom dance that has a no-lift rule versus someone doing contemporary.

 

Like I really and truly had no idea what he was trying to say on that and what he was supposedly confused about. Contemporary allows for lifts while some of the ballroom dances don't. That's the rule. Now yes, do I think Carrie Ann is annoying times with her lift police nonsense, sure but acting like the whole idea of why this exists is baffling and makes no sense, was stupid. 

 

Meanwhile, I have accepted that Hayes is this season's Sadie where the judges and others all love him and think he's doing such a great job and I just don't see it. I definitely think he's trying and he shows good promise and I did really enjoy the Quickstep but I did not get the fuss over the Cha Cha or the Foxtrot. And wow Suri, be more obvious with your Tony bias. 

 

I knew they weren't going to properly get through all those dances because I didn't see how they would fully talk about 25 dances in one hour. 

[RemoteControl88]

Agree with comments above.  If we follow Jake's logic there would be lifts allowed in all the dances even the standard ballroom dances.  Do we really need to see cartwheels and flips in a slow waltz??? A couple dancing in hold to a V waltz is beautiful to me. I've come to love ballroom dancing through this show. I don't want to see these traditional dances bastardized anymore than they have been. Because really...what would a lift add to a tango? I see enough cool lifts and tricks in the dances that allow for it like A. tango, salsa etc. 

 

Kristyn was trying to throw him a life line and clarify that the real issue is CAI....and her inability to apply her rule evenly....to everyone...all the time.  But Jake was adamant that lifts should be allowed in all dances. At least that is how it came across to me. And I think his idea is just stupid.  But I still love Jake and most of the time agree with his break down of the couples. He's not afraid to say when he doesn't like a dance either or is just not feeling a performance.

 

I did miss the technical critiques but I'm assuming that will come with guests, later in the season when there are fewer couples to get through. The new studio is very cool and I do look forward with who they will get in studio.

[Mbeaker]

Is it terrible that I'm anticipating Anna's elimination just so she can return to AfterBuzz!? I find it so much more enjoyable when she's there to give her critiques.

[RemoteControl88]

Is it terrible that I'm anticipating Anna's elimination just so she can return to AfterBuzz!? I find it so much more enjoyable when she's there to give her critiques.

 

Let's be real...the countdown began after the cast announcement. After getting/surviving Gary this season I hope they keep her in the regular rotation. I've missed Anna. I just hope that she gets a nice feature in a pro number this season. I've always loved her dancing in pro numbers.

 

I miss her on Afterbuzz too. It was refreshing how she really did focus on technical issues regardless of the celeb or pro.  

[ocelot]

Agree with comments above.  If we follow Jake's logic there would be lifts allowed in all the dances even the standard ballroom dances.  Do we really need to see cartwheels and flips in a slow waltz??? A couple dancing in hold to a V waltz is beautiful to me. I've come to love ballroom dancing through this show. I don't want to see these traditional dances bastardized anymore than they have been. Because really...what would a lift add to a tango? I see enough cool lifts and tricks in the dances that allow for it like A. tango, salsa etc. 

 

Kristyn was trying to throw him a life line and clarify that the real issue is CAI....and her inability to apply her rule evenly....to everyone...all the time.  But Jake was adamant that lifts should be allowed in all dances. At least that is how it came across to me. And I think his idea is just stupid.  But I still love Jake and most of the time agree with his break down of the couples. He's not afraid to say when he doesn't like a dance either or is just not feeling a performance.

 

I did miss the technical critiques but I'm assuming that will come with guests, later in the season when there are fewer couples to get through. The new studio is very cool and I do look forward with who they will get in studio.

I agree with you that I wish they wouldn't bastardize the ballroom and latin dances, but they already bastardize everything else so it's not really surprising to me. What they do to the ballroom dances does not compare to what they do to the dances outside of the ballroom genre.

[RemoteControl88]

Thoughts on Week 3 Afterbuzz - In Studio Guest was Keo.

 

There was a lot of talking over each other...especially between Keo & Suri. It was quite annoying...like they didn't realize that as a listener all I hear is a jumble of words and really loud laughter that hurt my ears. As far as critiques go........ Keo was not the most insightful on the actual dances but he did offer a little bit about his background and working with Chaka. He basically said that he came into this season in teacher mode. It just seemed like he couldn't figure the out the best way to help her learn the dances and not get confused on show day. Like Allison, I am not a huge fan of his choreography. 

 

Episode as a whole was ok...not my fav.

[truthaboutluv]

As far as critiques go........ Keo was not the most insightful on the actual dances but he did offer a little bit about his background and working with Chaka.

 

 

He never is. Keo is one of the most disappointing and boring guests in my opinion. You would expect him to be insightful or have something relevant to say as a dancer AND a Pro but he's as useless as Suri for crying out loud.