Afterbuzz Show: DWTS

[Uke]

... The producers bait you into giving them good soundbites, into saying something negative. Then you're hung out to dry and have to deal with the following shitstorm. 

 

So true. And Val seems to step into it every time.  But what struck me in Val's AfterBuzz segment was how sincere he came off. I didn't get the impression he was being mean or snarky on the show's segment.  Each pro is asked to critique - some do and some go all pc.  I think the real problem is it was Val who said it and that other site who shall remain nameless will batter him over any slight, real or imagined.  Let's not forget, Sharna said Nastia needs to show a human moment. Bruno said (after Rumer's VW) something like movement without emotion is just gymnastics.  It wasn't only Val but he's the only one being taken to task.

 

 

 

Katha: "Even the rumoured, longer "worse" version of what he supposedly said and was edited out that is floating around social media is blunt"

 

I'm skeptical about this.  The commenters on that site are pretty disciplined (or kept in line) to have screencapped that particular comment off their private site.  This conveniently falls right into the "slam Val" agenda they've got going on right now.  It reads to me like a recap of something Val had said earlier in the season about friction.

[truthaboutluv]

Okay show I guess. The Skype conversation with Val was painful because he rambles quite a bit and then Skype kept freezing (having used Skype often I know that feeling) so much. Of what was heard clearly, I thought he had some really great comments about Rumer and her talent and what she's accomplished during the season. I thought it was interesting that he admitted to the VW being sacrificed a bit because of the Judges' Choice dance and was okay with the scores. Going back to the fact that he rambles, honestly, I had no idea where Val was going with that long tangent when asked about the VW and was equally confused by the whole background of his not going to a performing arts school and who his friends were and all that stuff. 

 

I did like him addressing the elephant in the room about the fans and basically talking about this fan created "mafia war." The thing is, the guilty parties usually have no self awareness. So both sides will insist to you that they're the right ones and just stating the truth versus the other side. Val is right, that comment was ripe to be picked apart by the Derek fans but let us not pretend that Derek isn't ripped apart CONSTANTLY and sometimes really for just existing.

 

I have said it before that as someone who pays attention to DWTS fandom and have for years - including boards, social media, etc. -  Derek gets  A LOT of shit. I have read Derek be accused of everything from being threatened by Tristan and therefore sabotaging his time on the show; being downright abusive to his celebrities; the judges/producers/crew/etc. all in his pocket; arrogant and cold with no friends and none of his celebrities have ever liked him clearly since he never seems to remain best friends with them; etc. etc. 

 

And yes, by that token, the Derek fans (some of course not all which I  should clarify for all of this) get just as ugly and nasty about the Chmerkovskiy' s and Val because it seemed at some point it was decreed that to like one means you hate the other. I have seen comments on tumblr about loyalty and staying true to this one and that one. After the whole Val comment on Monday, I've read many comments from I guess Derek/Nastia fans telling people to be loyal and only vote Riker/Allison and not vote Rumer/Val because it would be a betrayal. Similarly, I remember last season, reading some long diatribe about how "the family" needed to come together and ensure Janel's win and make sure Bethany/Derek lose to right all the wrongs and injustices that have been done on this show in favor of Derek and his celebrities and it was time for people to stand up and say enough is enough, etc. 

 

In conclusion, there are A LOT of batshit crazy people who are taking this show way too seriously and have turned it into something incredibly ugly and nasty and both sides are guilty of it. But most will be too hypocritical or lack any self-awareness to own up to their culpability in it all. And I'm glad that Val said it's not that serious and that needs to be said repeatedly because it's not. Like do I think Noah deserved to outlast Nastia, of course not but I don't care enough to be outraged about it because this is hardly new for this show. There have always been not so great dancers who make it a lot further than others and again, who cares, it's a cheesy show for an ugly mirrorball trophy. I love it because I love dance in all forms so I enjoy watching that, but I never forget that it's a reality entertainment show which means it's highly produced and will hardly ever be "fair."

 

eta: I wanted to add that I think the big problem here is that somewhere along the way, the show became less about the celebrities and instead became about stanning for and supporting the Pros and the celebrities were just afterthoughts and in some cases collateral damaged, attached to one's favorite or most hated Pro. 

Edited May 14, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[gohawks]

The Access Hollywood interview was interesting. Derek throws Val under the bus and Nastia retrieves him.

Derek's smarmy disingenuous behavior is why I will never warm up to him. Hey Derek, ask Maks, Kyle and Brandy whether you attack stars and other pros.

I admit this is pure speculation on my part but I have been convinced for some time that the "spy" from the other website is Derek

or someone very close to him.

[2LeftFeet]

http://bcove.me/s6fhxnww

 

Access Hollywood Interview: Derek & Nastia address Val's comment at 1:26 fyi.

To me, it looked like Derek was trying to play the noble victim, when he knows darned well all pros were asked for one postivie and one negative comment. He also looked like he was going to continue in this vein...and to my eyes, it looks like Nastia squeezed his shoulded after a little rub... a signal, as she started talking immediately afterward and indicated all was fine.

[kayma]

To me, it looked like Derek was trying to play the noble victim, when he knows darned well all pros were asked for one postivie and one negative comment. He also looked like he was going to continue in this vein...and to my eyes, it looks like Nastia squeezed his shoulded after a little rub... a signal, as she started talking immediately afterward and indicated all was fine.

I'm kind of surprised by Derek's response, and I completely agree that Nastia shut it down. I didn't like his comment about how he doesn't say negative things, especially when he knew the setup. As someone who's complained about packages this season, you'd think he wouldn't take the packages seriously when others are in them either. Of course, he did just get eliminated so I can't take his comments too seriously. I still don't know what the issue was to start with and why Sharna's "human moment" comment gets a pass - not that there was anything wrong with that either. I'm hoping all the interviewers can stop with this manufactured drama now.

 

This made me love Nastia even more. It's too bad she didn't get to interview like this on the show. I'm hoping she's back for the finale and that she gets something good out of this.

[Stitsch]

To me, it looked like Derek was trying to play the noble victim, when he knows darned well all pros were asked for one positive and one negative comment. He also looked like he was going to continue in this vein...and to my eyes, it looks like Nastia squeezed his shoulder after a little rub... a signal, as she started talking immediately afterward and indicated all was fine.

 

Indeed. Derek acting like he's the paradigm of class is hilarious to anyone that remembers his comments about Brandy and Kyle. Really, Derek? You hold yourself up above Val's supposed "classlessness"? Shall we go back in time and reassess when you all but trashed Brandy and Kyle? Or would you like to talk about the fact that Maks allegedly overcompensates because he is, as you said, "incredibly insecure"?

 

Christ. I'm so grateful for Nastia's perpetual levelheadedness. Had he been paired with anyone else, Derek's tendency to be an insufferable hypocrite would have reached its precipice weeks ago. And it makes me sad, because had SHE been paired with anyone else, we would have witnessed something grand. Nastia is an incredible technical dancer. Derek did nothing but disservice her by creating choreography that wasn't shaped around her capabilities, which he usually excels at.

 

I don't know. I hope he takes a season or two off, just like I did... er, three seasons ago, but if this is his attitude now, something is telling me that he'll return next season with some sort of self-inflated purpose to redeem himself. 

[Uke]

I don't know. I hope he takes a season or two off, just like I did... er, three seasons ago, but if this is his attitude now, something is telling me that he'll return next season with some sort of self-inflated purpose to redeem himself. 

 

According to his blog, he's got 2 more seasons on his contract.

[kitcloudkicker]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

He sounded like he was joking with the "classy" comment to me.

If I were the type to be into signatures, I'd append

"It's not that serious." -- Val Chmerkovskiy

to everything.

[katha]

eta: I wanted to add that I think the big problem here is that somewhere along the way, the show became less about the celebrities and instead became about stanning for and supporting the Pros and the celebrities were just afterthoughts and in some cases collateral damaged, attached to one's favorite or most hated Pro. 

The show has been going on for 20 seasons. Even at the beginning, they weren't exactly pulling A-listers. After 10 years I'm sure they sometimes have difficulty getting people, particularly since the celebs at this point know what a risk it can be, that you have to put in a lot of work, that there's a chance of public humiliation. So consequently the pros who had staying power, who proved to have a knack for the format of the show (not necessarily tied to technical excellence and great competition results. As everybody says: This isn't Blackpool.), they became as much the focus as the stars.  Sometimes moreso. I don't think you can really change that anymore. And since the pros are stars in their own right to some degree now, with that come stans and haters. Multiply that with the reality show aspect always stirring up some "rivalries" and "controversies" and the general echo chamber that is social media and you've got a lot of ugliness on your hands.

[Andiethewestie]

That other site is just a bashing site for anyone, C brothers or otherwise who gets too close to the prize.  If disgruntled Derek and Nastia fans want to protest vote then that's their perrogative, but I'm not sure they can change an opinion of Rumer and Val in the closing show.  The only ones who could do that are Rumer and Val themselves. 

[realdancemom]

Val is right.  It doesn't matter what he has to say to explain Monday night.  Fans like the ones in the other site already made up their mind about him.   They are not going to change it.  They already posted that they want either Noah or Riker to win because they feel that Val was pimped and has a ringer.  Their logic doesn't even make sense because Nastia was just as much a ringer as Rumer.  Riker is one too.  As for the pimping, Nastia did have that nice ending dance with Len.  I feel that it's been Noah that's been overscored all season and then he was able to propose on Monday which also influenced votes.  So I think he's the one that is being pimped.

 

I happened to agree with Val's assessment of Nastia.  From reading this board, it seemed a lot of people did.  The Afterbuzz hosts themselves have made the same comment.  Nastia was technically very good.  I also believe that after a few weeks, she tried to show emotion through her face.  It was the connection between Derek during the dances that left me cold.  But then she started showing more of a connection with Sasha and also with Derek after his injury.  So to me, she did grow as a performer.

Edited May 15, 2015 by realdancemom

[RemoteControl88]

The hypocrisy is pretty mind blowing.  The mantra of "Vote for Nastia b/c she's great....it's not about D winning 5 MBT. It's not about the pro."  I can't take the message seriously when CLEARLY the issue with Rumer....is Val. Also being upset that Nastia got portrayed as the "cold, emotionless Russian." Are you guys even serious??? (hello Maks, Val, Karina every season).

 

On another season I think Nastia would have had a much easier time getting to the final...but this season she had to deal with:

 

-The patriotic, flag waving fans that usually root for any Olympian probably were voting for Noah (or at the very least the votes were being split).

-The memory of most DWTS fans lasts about a week. So one bad edit won't kill your chances of getting to the final (even if it is repeated).

-Noah probably beat out Nastia to the final by 1.15% because of the proposal. period. The story of the night was the proposal....not her dance with Len.

-Folks don't have a good memory of the history of young gymnasts on this show with regard to placements.

      *Shawn Johnson was fresh off her Olympic win and beat Gilles by 1% (or less than 1%...I can't remember). So even back in Season 8 it wasn't like the gymnast that season dominated and won, voting-wise.

      *Shawn in the All Star Season (now several years removed from the Olympics) lost to Melissa "smiles" Rycroft. Again this powerhouse of Olympic voters did not materialize for a win.

      *Aly Raisman came in 4th. She didn't have the fan votes to get to the finals and she just came off the Olympics. I do think that had more to do with her not being the best dancer though.

      *Nastia was very removed from her Olympic year. She hasn't competed in a few years. I don't think she ever had this powerhouse of voters that was just going to carry her to the finals. She needed the general audience on her side. 

 

A combination of all this is the reason I think she didn't make the finals. IMO.

[truthaboutluv]

The hypocrisy is pretty mind blowing.  The mantra of "Vote for Nastia b/c she's great....it's not about D winning 5 MBT. It's not about the pro."  I can't take the message seriously when CLEARLY the issue with Rumer....is Val.

 

 

And by that same token, if Rumer had been paired with Derek, some of the same people who love her now would have found a lot of things wrong with her and criticized the pairing and vice versa. The hypocrisy goes both ways because there are a bunch of viewers of this show with way too much time on their hands and who have decreed some stupid Hatfield vs. McCoys type battle between Derek and Val. 

 

And for the record, while I like Val well enough, I don't think he can genuinely say it's only been the fans feeding this, like some of the people involved haven't shared some culpability. Sure, he may be innocent in it but it was interesting he brought up Serge, since I know some Derek fans have said some not so nice things about Serge after his Afterbuzz appearances. And while I don't advocate sending mean tweets/comments/etc. to someone, I did call bullshit on Serge's whole "oh I meant nothing by it" backtrack after his first Afterbuzz appearance. 

 

It was last season after the premiere episode and all of the panel said they thought Bethany's scores were a bit too high because while she was good, she wasn't 8 across the board good. Serge adds "well you dance with the 5 time champion, you get gifts". Yeah that's not passive aggressive at all. In his last appearance, putting aside the Derek was doing Maks/Meryl's version of the Tango, I noticed when they were talking about Willow and Mark and noting how impressive Willow had been, he made sure to mention how Willow was that week tied with Derek.  Um, Willow wasn't competing against Derek - she was competing against Nastia. 

 

Then there was Maks this season, running on Twitter after Rumer's Cha Cha where Julianne, who had by the way been nothing but positive to Rumer, mentioned something about her being too stiff in her upper body and needing to breathe through the movements. He tweets something about "oh, I'm sorry I'm allergic to bullshit" which of course the fans couldn't wait to run and re-tweet and agree with and proceed to jump on Julianne and call her every name in the book. Then there were the memes and tweets the night before the Season 18 finale, telling the voters "not to make this happen again" complete with shots of Zendaya losing to Kelly. 

 

Val may say in the interview that when it comes time to be professional they are, but many of "The Fam" have fed into this family before everything, loyalty above all, it's us against them mentality that the some of the idiotic fans who can't think for themselves have run to jump on board and parrot and it has, in my, maybe unpopular opinion, fed this Hough vs. Chmerkovskiy beast that now exists. 

[katha]

 

Also being upset that Nastia got portrayed as the "cold, emotionless Russian." Are you guys even serious??? (hello Maks, Val, Karina every season).

I think this season both Derek and Nastia didn't get favourable edits. But I agree, it's not like this is a first with the show. Perhaps it's not something that's been done too often to Derek and his partners in the last few seasons and so it might be more noticeable? Val, Maks, Karina, Peta, Cheryl, Mark, Tony...basically all of the long-time pros have had their fair share of hatchet job packages and judges' ire aimed against them. It comes with the territory. It's not a fair competition, it's a cheesy reality show that also features dancing.

 

 

-Folks don't have a good memory of the history of young gymnasts on this show with regard to placements.

 The way you break down the track record of the gymnasts does put it in perspective. Arguably Shawn also won it on the freestyle in her first season: Cheryl flubbed hers, Mark's was a hit. So they weren't on track to win that season, they were in striking distance and were able to capitalize on Gilles and Cheryl showing weakness when it mattered most.

Edited May 15, 2015 by katha

[RemoteControl88]

 

The hypocrisy is pretty mind blowing.  

 

The mind blowing hypocrisy I am talking about is from that particular site and the people that run it. I am being very specific in what THEY have said and how it doesn't even make sense.  That is the main point of my post.  They've gotten to the point of being delusional with how they apply their logic. 

[Bella]

This isn't an "official" mod note even though I'm using the colored background.

 

However, as a pre-emptive measure, I want to advise caution when discussing groups of posters and their views. I totally get the drift of this conversation, I'm just suggesting that you all continue to be clear that you're not snarking on each other here.

 

Thanks!

[realdancemom]

 The way you break down the track record of the gymnasts does put it in perspective. Arguably Shawn also won it on the freestyle in her first season: Cheryl flubbed hers, Mark's was a hit. So they weren't on track to win that season, they were in striking distance and were able to capitalize on Gilles and Cheryl showing weakness when it mattered most.

With other seasons, the freestyles do make a difference in who wins.  I wonder what is going to happen with this season.  I think fans of Noah will vote for him no matter what.  It's not like his other dances were better than the other three.  

 

However, there are other fans that will vote for the winning freestyle if the top two are close.  For example, I do think that Kellie's, Amber's, Donald's freestyles were more unique/fresher/better than Zendaya's, Corbin's, or Katherine's.  However, last season, I liked Alfonso and even though I liked his freestyle, I would have voted for him even if I like somebody else's freestyle more.

[truthaboutluv]

Freestyles have definitely won the season sometimes and I agree that it's usually when two or even three of the finalists are really close in talent and ability. Because chances are their viewer votes were already close throughout most of the season and that final dance sways the more casual viewer who maybe never even voted for most of the season. 

 

The mind blowing hypocrisy I am talking about is from that particular site and the people that run it. I am being very specific in what THEY have said and how it doesn't even make sense.  That is the main point of my post.  They've gotten to the point of being delusional with how they apply their logic.

 

 

I got that. I'm just saying there is plenty of delusion to go around on all sides. Perfect example, the Grassy Knoll threads. One person will use the same evidence to say the show is clearly manipulating it for Derek to win and then someone else will use the same evidence as proof positive that producers are manipulating the show for Val. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[RemoteControl88]

 

I got that. I'm just saying there is plenty of delusion to go around on all sides. Perfect example, the Grassy Knoll threads. One person will use the same evidence to say the show is clearly manipulating it for Derek to win and then someone else will use the same evidence as proof positive that producers are manipulating the show for Val. 

 

Yep. I got that....you seem to be talking about everybody... I'm talking about them.

[OnceSane]

Stop.

Back on topic.

[NextIteration]

The Afterbuzz hosts themselves have made the same comment.

 

This is the problem I have with Afterbuzz, for all shows not just DWTS - more than anything, in my experience, they just reflect back all of the social media tidbits that they take in.  Never an original thought from any host for any show.

 

Where you might get a little truth telling is with guests.

[Abra]

Skype only ever works for Oprah, apparently. The Keo cameo was cute, however :)

 

I wish Val had been in the studio, not just to avoid all of the technical annoyances, but to give more input on the show and the people on it as a whole, rather than just focusing (or rambling, as the case may be) on him and Rumer, and "mafias". I dearly hope either he or Derek post pictures of them getting pedicures once the season is over.

 

I also feel completely out of touch with the hosts this season, especially with their love of Noah and Allison. I don't like to say someone does or doesn't deserve to be on the show - that makes it sounds like someone could work their ass off and have a wonderful story and personality, but if they're not as good of a dancer as someone else, then they don't deserve to be there. But I am so done with everything about Noah, that I can safely say I don't think he deserves to be there at all - and it's been many weeks since he has. Ah well.

[Uke]

This is the problem I have with Afterbuzz, for all shows not just DWTS - more than anything, in my experience, they just reflect back all of the social media tidbits that they take in.  Never an original thought from any host for any show.

 

Where you might get a little truth telling is with guests.

 

The AB hosts bend whichever way the wind blows.  This week they were getting clobbered by that other site's commenters for "contributing" to Nastia's elimination by mentioning lack of connection/emotion when reviewing some of her dances.  Kristyn then redeemed herself a bit by using her one question at the Paley Center's panel discussion Q&A by asking Ron Wade why they replayed (kept replaying? I can't remember how she put it.)  Nastia's "manipulation" package and did he think it led to her elimination.   IMO Kristyn and Suri don't contribute much in the way of actual critiques. Darvina is proving to be too PC to say anything of substance. The only one I think steps out of his admitted biases and offers kind critiques is Jake but he is too often missing as it seems he's getting more acting/dancing theatre jobs.   Some of the guest hosts though have been quite good - Toni Basil, Elena, Corky (without Shirley), Sharna, are just a few I can think of just off the top of my head.

[truthaboutluv]

This is the problem I have with Afterbuzz, for all shows not just DWTS - more than anything, in my experience, they just reflect back all of the social media tidbits that they take in.  Never an original thought from any host for any show.

 

 

For all the shows I watch, DWTS is the only one where I watch the Afterbuzz show fairly regularly and that's saying something since they bug me too but I honestly have not been able to get through almost any of the ones for the other shows I watch. It's usually a combination of boring hosts, constant talking over each other, rambling, obnoxious hosts, etc. 

 

IMO Kristyn and Suri don't contribute much in the way of actual critiques. Darvina is proving to be too PC to say anything of substance. The only one I think steps out of his admitted biases and offers kind critiques is Jake but he is too often missing as it seems he's getting more acting/dancing theatre jobs.   Some of the guest hosts though have been quite good - Toni Basil, Elena, Corky (without Shirley), Sharna, are just a few I can think of just off the top of my head.

 

 

This is why I think Anna is so necessary to the show. I may not always agree with her but at least she will give a technical perspective on the dances. Suri either just goes "I agree with you guys" or blabbers on every season about just not feeling or connecting to some couple. Kristyn really doesn't offer much in the way of opinions about the dances and really just moderates. Well except to talk about sickled feet which apparently really bugs her. And until recently, I didn't even realize Darvina wasn't even a dancer much less a ballroom dancer. I think she's an actress/singer. I do know Mark, Julianne and Derek went to a performing arts school in England so I'm guessing that's how Darvina was a classmate. It wasn't from dancing at all. 

[realdancemom]

This is the problem I have with Afterbuzz, for all shows not just DWTS - more than anything, in my experience, they just reflect back all of the social media tidbits that they take in.  Never an original thought from any host for any show.

 

Where you might get a little truth telling is with guests.

I only watched Afterbuzz for DWTS and SYTYCD.  Kristyn hosts both.  Jake used to appear in both but he's been so busy that he's hardly around.  I did like when he was there because of his dance background.  I like the two shows better when they have ballroom experts in DWTS and dancers in SYTYCD.

 

Anyway, the reason why I brought up the fact that the hosts have said the same thing about Nastia is because that other site has such a personal agenda against Val but what was said about her is not new.  Sharna also said that Natia needed a human moment.  So now, they want have their site's fans to rally and vote for anybody except Val and Rumer.  Their reasoning is that they want anybody but Val to win.

 

To me, it should be about the dancing so that's how I vote.  Even though Rumer is my favorite out of the three left, I can see Val blowing it in on the freestyle.  Zendaya's freestyle was just o.k. and Janel wasn't great because contemporary is not Val's specialty.  In one of the other threads, I believe Andie wrote that Val and Rumer are doing an AT.  I hope so  because I can see him choreographing a great AT and Rumer can pull that off.  I am disappointed that we won't see a Nastia and Derek freestyle. 

 

I haven't agreed with the AB hosts on Noah or Allison.  I do think that Riker and Allison don't seem as fast the last few weeks in comparison to the beginning of the season.  Riker is exciting to watch.  I loved Allison on SYTYCD but not so much on DWTS.  I think she just looks good this year because of Riker.

 

I'm grateful for Noah's sacrifice and he is a really strong person.  His dancing on the right side is o.k. but I wouldn't say that it was better than Chris or Robert.  I was hoping that we would have four in the finals and it was going to be Rumer, Riker, Willow, and Nastia.  Those were the four best dancers to me that would have created the best freestyles. 

[RemoteControl88]

Anyway, the reason why I brought up the fact that the hosts have said the same thing about Nastia is because that other site has such a personal agenda against Val but what was said about her is not new.  Sharna also said that Natia needed a human moment.  So now, they want have their site's fans to rally and vote for anybody except Val and Rumer.  Their reasoning is that they want anybody but Val to win.

 

To me, it should be about the dancing so that's how I vote.  Even though Rumer is my favorite out of the three left, I can see Val blowing it in on the freestyle.  Zendaya's freestyle was just o.k. and Janel wasn't great because contemporary is not Val's specialty.  In one of the other threads, I believe Andie wrote that Val and Rumer are doing an AT.  I hope so  because I can see him choreographing a great AT and Rumer can pull that off.  I am disappointed that we won't see a Nastia and Derek freestyle. 

 

I haven't agreed with the AB hosts on Noah or Allison.  I do think that Riker and Allison don't seem as fast the last few weeks in comparison to the beginning of the season.  Riker is exciting to watch.  I loved Allison on SYTYCD but not so much on DWTS.  I think she just looks good this year because of Riker.

 

Val in studio would have been ideal... But I did appreciate his honesty (when he eventually got to the point).  It was refreshing to hear him talk about his awareness on cracking under pressure and putting up some sub par freestyles. Glad he knows it and I hope he comes closer to getting it right this time.  

 

I can only guess that the hosts of Afterbuzz want to be PC therefore will not actually critique Noah. I think Anna came the closest to bringing it back to the dance though...but of course she's not there.

 

I think they are fans of Allison from SYTYCD and just won't call her out on technique. Mind you I don't think Allison needs to be called out to the point of being embarrassed...but a gentle critique directed at Riker I think is fair. I think next season she will be in for a rude awakening if she get's actual critiques and a partner with no dance experience (ie. Jonathan 2.0).

[NextIteration]

I'm not making this about any of the pros or any of the stars, I personally think that an hour recap of a show should actually provide some insight as opposed to a regurgitation of whatever the judges say (or a vehement disagreement with what they say), or whatever is prominent in social media for a show like this, or just a regurgitation of social media for a drama series.

 

I'll stand by that observance.

 

I don't know anything about "that other site" and I think I'm glad that I don't, and it doesn't matter if I like or agree with any of their opinions (the AfterBuzz panel).

 

I've yet to and I'm not sure that I'll bother, go back and watch an episode with Jake or Anna, I'm sure their presence made a huge difference and I conceded that having guests or in this case actual experts on the panel would be very helpful, for a show like this.

 

I found the Pavey Center thing more enlightening about the show overall, truth be told.

[kitcloudkicker]

To close it out, last Afterbuzz: 
 

 

They are more critical with only three of them - maybe that's the key, less guests to suck up to, combined with less opinions to get through. Suri and Darvina seem to play the same role though (friend/acquaintance of a pro) - I'd say you really only need one of them. 

[2LeftFeet]

Val in studio would have been ideal... But I did appreciate his honesty (when he eventually got to the point).  It was refreshing to hear him talk about his awareness on cracking under pressure and putting up some sub par freestyles. Glad he knows it and I hope he comes closer to getting it right this time.  

 

I can only guess that the hosts of Afterbuzz want to be PC therefore will not actually critique Noah. I think Anna came the closest to bringing it back to the dance though...but of course she's not there.

 

I think they are fans of Allison from SYTYCD and just won't call her out on technique. Mind you I don't think Allison needs to be called out to the point of being embarrassed...but a gentle critique directed at Riker I think is fair. I think next season she will be in for a rude awakening if she get's actual critiques and a partner with no dance experience (ie. Jonathan 2.0).

THIS! With all keeping Riker's background hidden, it's as if Allison has had a huge impact on his dance ability. Not true and obvious from watching their All Access rehearsals. So when/if she gets a 'normal' celeb, then what? I'm actually hoping she moves on to something other than DWTS next season. Lovely person, but DWTS really isn't her wheelhouse. Also don't think the bulk of DWTS viewership are interested in SYTYCD lite, either.

[kayma]

I listened to Afterbuzz. I wish I hadn't bothered. Are they always so focused on conspiracy theories and what social media is pushing? Are the critiques always so shallow? I can decide on my own if something was entertaining or stunning or gorgeous. Tell me about the things I don't know like technique and the difficulty of choreography. Why if Riker is so good technique-wise, why does he look sloppy to me half the time? Is it because he's just gangly or is there something else? (I've found RIker entertaining all season and completely worthy of 2nd place but can't figure out why no judges or "analysts" commented on what looks like sloppiness to me.) Why is Sharna's choreography considered so good this season? Everyone praises her choreography but never says why. Sharna mentioned in a livestream that she had to rework steps because men lead with the left, so is that the reason? Or is it just because they were emotionally moved? Did Allison really give Riker the most difficult choreography? How was Allison's ballroom choreography compared to Sharna and Val? Was Rumer really as good as she looked to me? How much did they objectively improve or change from the beginning of the season?

 

Why did they spend the last 15 minutes talking about Nastia, who wasn't even in the finals? If we're talking about hatchet jobs in the packages, Charlotte came out of the season looking a whole lot worse than Nastia. I still think they and social media are blowing Nastia's edits way out of proportion compared to what everyone else got. It's sad that my main takeaway from their hour long discussion of the finale was that they were upset Nastia didn't win instead of all the good things they could have said about the 3 couples that were actually in the finals.  We had 3 fun and distinct personalities in the finals in great partnerships doing entertaining dances, but it seemed like they brushed all that aside for innuendos and pandering to social media.

 

ETA: *I've found RIker entertaining all season and completely worthy of 2nd place but can't figure out why no judges or "analysts" commented on what looks like sloppiness to me.* - This is really driving me crazy. If anyone has an answer, I'd love to hear it. It might just be the choreography is not my cup of tea.

Edited May 21, 2015 by kayma

[cc818]

First time commenter here: could someone explain what the issue was during Riker and Allison's freestyle that was referenced in the most recent AfterBuzz show? They said it had something to do with the platform not locking, but I couldn't make out what exactly happened. Suri or Kristin kept shouting "Pro!" and it just drowned out whoever was actually explaining it. 

[vibeology]

The two platforms should have snapped together and they didn't connect properly. As a result Jenna and Lindsay or Brittany had to hold the platforms together while Riker and Allison were on them and then the platforms didn't come apart properly. You can see Riker jump off his and run to his mark without missing a beat. I didn't love his freestyle but he did an amazing job adapting to the issues on the fly.

[truthaboutluv]

First time commenter here: could someone explain what the issue was during Riker and Allison's freestyle that was referenced in the most recent AfterBuzz show? They said it had something to do with the platform not locking, but I couldn't make out what exactly happened.

 

 

I think when Riker and Allison was on the platform thing, it had to move where it would position Riker to get on the smaller stage where he did that dance break with the other guys. However, I think what they were saying is that it didn't move like it was supposed to and so he sort of had to get himself on the stage and did so without losing a beat or going off in his timing which while impressive, I also think is a testament to his being a performer. So he was able to stay calm and not get rattled by that. 

 

I can decide on my own if something was entertaining or stunning or gorgeous.

 

 

Well in fairness, it's all opinion anyway and that was just theirs. I don't think they're expecting anyone to accept their word as gospel but clearly they were underwhelmed by the finale and said so. I mean to be fair, that's more honest than when they do the ass kissing and over the top gushing when they have some guest there, that they do not want to offend. I mean I get that some thought the performances were amazing but hell I found the finale underwhelming and kind of a huge dud. 

 

Tell me about the things I don't know like technique and the difficulty of choreography.

 

That's just it though, and why again the show needs Anna and Jake, because these three aren't the best to speak on technique. Suri is just a former gymnast as she loves to keep reminding us, Kristen did ballet for some years when she was younger but she's not trained in ballroom and I don't think Darvina is even a dancer period. I think she's an actress/singer. So yeah, you're not going to get great technical commentary from them. It will be all about how they felt watching the dances. 

 

It's sad that my main takeaway from their hour long discussion of the finale was that they were upset Nastia didn't win instead of all the good things they could have said about the 3 couples that were actually in the finals.

 

 

YMMV but I didn't get the impression that they thought Nastia should have won but just that they thought it might have been a more compelling final if she was there and I agree.  I already stated all this in the Finale thread so I won't rehash it but I do think Nastia being eliminated in fourth, basically resulted in Rumer having no real competition in the Finale. No, I'm not saying she would have won but as you noted, Riker's ballroom technique was never great (again, I think Allison is so out of her depth here as a Pro) and well let's face it, Noah was never exactly getting by on his dancing so with only those two against her, Rumer's win was even more of a given. I do believe that Nastia was the only one who matched Rumer technically this season and so it would have made for a more compelling and interesting finale, in my opinion, to see them duke it out to the end. 

 

I still think they and social media are blowing Nastia's edits way out of proportion compared to what everyone else got.

 

 

YMMV but it wasn't just about that one package that they did feel the need to run repeatedly and keeping in mind that this happened when the numbers were dwindled down and the votes probably a lot closer by then so very little cushion for errors, but more the narrative she got. I get that some may not agree and many will state the high scores she got and that is all true. But as someone said, it wasn't just the scores but what the judges were saying. And a lot of what the judges were saying was "no connection, not close, cold..." And that does play in some viewers' head and their perception of a celebrity.

 

The ultimate example of this for me was the week they did the Tango. It wasn't until I rewatched the episode, saw all the dances that I realized that Nastia technically had the best dance that night and yeah she got a couple of 9's but when you rewatch her judges' commentary, she was the only person who didn't get one positive comment that week. The judges all harped on everything that was wrong about it and nothing about what she did right and again, she actually had the best dance that night but you couldn't tell it from the judges' comments. So while some may disagree, I do understand what some are saying in that regard.

Edited May 21, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Andiethewestie]

Personally I was shocked that Nastia got such rough comments from the judges on the Tango week. I thought she did great.  But it also reminded me of Nicole Scherzinger, in season 10 the week she had the Rumba, the judges comments were pretty harsh, and she had that bad "I'm an artist" edit. And yet, her scores were among the highest of the night.  So for Nicole a large fan base pulls you through the commentary rough spots , and can make the voters work harder to dispel the judges negativitiy.  Nastia didn't have the same base that will work for her. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Andiethewestie

[Serendi]

About Darvina - after she said yesterday that she couldn't dance for six weeks after dislocating her shoulder, I went back to her first Afterbuzz (week 2 of this season) and watched Kristyn's intro; Kristyn said she's a trained dancer. She didn't say what style, though.

 

About Riker's sloppiness - I'm speaking from a non-dancer's viewpoint here. I realized that one of the best things, for me, about the Pirate Paso is that with those boots, Riker no longer looks like he has pipestem legs that move like they're elastic. The visual works *much* better for me. (The hair and beard do, too - the color contrasts with his skin and this somehow also makes him seem less young/gawky. I think.)

 

I think maybe what looks sloppy to me (rubber band legs) doesn't to a dancer? It's a thought, anyway.

[CED9]

I think when Riker and Allison was on the platform thing, it had to move where it would position Riker to get on the smaller stage where he did that dance break with the other guys. However, I think what they were saying is that it didn't move like it was supposed to and so he sort of had to get himself on the stage and did so without losing a beat or going off in his timing which while impressive, I also think is a testament to his being a performer. So he was able to stay calm and not get rattled by that.

Well in fairness, it's all opinion anyway and that was just theirs. I don't think they're expecting anyone to accept their word as gospel but clearly they were underwhelmed by the finale and said so. I mean to be fair, that's more honest than when they do the ass kissing and over the top gushing when they have some guest there, that they do not want to offend. I mean I get that some thought the performances were amazing but hell I found the finale underwhelming and kind of a huge dud.

That's just it though, and why again the show needs Anna and Jake, because these three aren't the best to speak on technique. Suri is just a former gymnast as she loves to keep reminding us, Kristen did ballet for some years when she was younger but she's not trained in ballroom and I don't think Darvina is even a dancer period. I think she's an actress/singer. So yeah, you're not going to get great technical commentary from them. It will be all about how they felt watching the dances.

YMMV but I didn't get the impression that they thought Nastia should have won but just that they thought it might have been a more compelling final if she was there and I agree. I already stated all this in the Finale thread so I won't rehash it but I do think Nastia being eliminated in fourth, basically resulted in Rumer having no real competition in the Finale. No, I'm not saying she would have won but as you noted, Riker's ballroom technique was never great (again, I think Allison is so out of her depth here as a Pro) and well let's face it, Noah was never exactly getting by on his dancing so with only those two against her, Rumer's win was even more of a given. I do believe that Nastia was the only one who matched Rumer technically this season and so it would have made for a more compelling and interesting finale, in my opinion, to see them duke it out to the end.

YMMV but it wasn't just about that one package that they did feel the need to run repeatedly and keeping in mind that this happened when the numbers were dwindled down and the votes probably a lot closer by then so very little cushion for errors, but more the narrative she got. I get that some may not agree and many will state the high scores she got and that is all true. But as someone said, it wasn't just the scores but what the judges were saying. And a lot of what the judges were saying was "no connection, not close, cold..." And that does play in some viewers' head and their perception of a celebrity.

The ultimate example of this for me was the week they did the Tango. It wasn't until I rewatched the episode, saw all the dances that I realized that Nastia technically had the best dance that night and yeah she got a couple of 9's but when you rewatch her judges' commentary, she was the only person who didn't get one positive comment that week. The judges all harped on everything that was wrong about it and nothing about what she did right and again, she actually had the best dance that night but you couldn't tell it from the judges' comments. So while some may disagree, I do understand what some are saying in that regard.

I do wonder how much of the general audience knew Nastia beforehand, because that whole "cold, no connection, etc" stuff was a criticism she faced throughout her career, and she sort of put her "competition face" on during the early portion of the season when it's more important to stand out while people are finding their horse in the race, so to speak. If people who knew of Nastia wanted to see a different side of her on DWTS, they might've felt they weren't getting it, and just when she opened up, she had already lost the personality vote.

I truly don't think a big deal would've been made of it if she wasn't Derek's partner, though.

[RemoteControl88]

 So for Nicole a large fan base pulls you through the commentary rough spots , and can make the voters work harder to dispel the judges negativitiy.  Nastia didn't have the same base that will work for her. 

Noah proposing the night of the semi-finals probably also helped him get past her into the finals.  We will never know but I think that gave him a a boost in votes and the bottom 2 that night were about 1% apart. I don't believe the negative edit/commentary is what did her in.

[skyways]

ETA: *I've found RIker entertaining all season and completely worthy of 2nd place but can't figure out why no judges or "analysts" commented on what looks like sloppiness to me.* - This is really driving me crazy. If anyone has an answer, I'd love to hear it. It might just be the choreography is not my cup of tea.

 Edited by kayma, Today. 11:40 am.

 

 

I'm not a ballroom dancer but I watch a lot of ballroom and I love to watch the latin dances. My observation with regards to Riker is that while he can keep up with difficult and fast choreography, for the latin dances his feet are turned in and he doesn't take care to point them outward when they are planted on the ground so when he's doing fast, high energy moves he definitely sacrifices the finishing in his lower body. Also he doesn't straighten his legs for instance in the dance-off with Willow in the salsa. I knew as soon as Willow danced, that most would think Riker won that round because of the fast chore and high energy performance but Willow had proper leg action and feet placement. Riker generally doesn't pay attention to that whenever he danced.

 And before you think it's because of his pro, I've found that whenever male stars come on the show who had prior dance experience or are performers, their pros usually fail in putting their feet correctly (Karina had the same issues with the black Mario).  Riker's issues were noticeable because he had the nice lanky physique of a latin dancer so his sloppiness is easily noticed even by the untrained eye.

[Andiethewestie]

Noah proposing the night of the semi-finals probably also helped him get past her into the finals.  We will never know but I think that gave him a a boost in votes and the bottom 2 that night were about 1% apart. I don't believe the negative edit/commentary is what did her in.

The proposal was well played by Noah, but Nastia could have survived it if she had the fan base. She was given a gift of that sentimental VWaltz with Len.  Shame her fans didn't capitalize on it. 

[PBGamer89]

Riker to me wasn't sloppy, he was just too hectic and I think most of that came from Allison's choreo, which they claim to be brilliant, but she's only really strong in her own genre, which is really only 2 styles on this show.

 

I prefer Ballroom dancing with light and shade, like Len, so that's why Riker never appealed to me, aside from his dance background.

 

In terms of Nastia, I find that what did her in really was Noah's proposal and the judge's refusal to give him realistic scores that night. Cause nothing Nastia did caused it. She danced last, got 2 perfect scores, had a good package, and ended the night on that great dance with Len. Noah's overscored dances and his proposal probably gave him that slight 1% edge over her.

Edited May 22, 2015 by PBGamer89

[CED9]

Riker to me wasn't sloppy, he was just too hectic and I think most of that came from Allison's choreo, which they claim to be brilliant, but she's only really strong in her own genre, which is really only 2 styles on this show.

I prefer Ballroom dancing with light and shade, like Len, so that's why Riker never appealed to me, aside from his dance background.

In terms of Nastia, I find that what did her in really was Noah's proposal and the judge's refusal to give him realistic scores that night. Cause nothing Nastia did caused it. She danced last, got 2 perfect scores, had a good package, and ended the night on that great dance with Len. Noah's overscored dances and his proposal probably gave him that slight 1% edge over her.

Except if you notice the pattern this show uses in terms of announcing results, Riker was probably the other half of the real bottom 2, not Noah. Wouldn't surprise me in the least when you add the casual voters who don't vote for the same person every week. They make up the bulk of the votes.

[calipiano81]

I was not a Nastia-Derek voter (I like them, but I root for another team ), but that edit made me so angry for them.

If what Derek wrote in his TV Guide blog is true, the package was a piece of fiction. According to Derek, the producers kept asking Nastia about something completely unrelated to the show, which is why she kept saying, "I don't want to talk about that." But then they cut and pasted that phrase to make it seem like she was refusing to respond to them asking her about her feelings towards the rehearsal.

Nastia and Derek were stunned by the package because they hadn't had an argument, they hadn't had tension...the producers just decided to manipulate Nastia at the end of a long rehearsal day.

It's one thing to take a conversation that was actually had or something that actually happened and put a spotlight on it, but to completely make something up is crossing the line.

To me, that's dishonest, not reality, and completely unfair to sabotage a hard-working couple's chances for the sake of "drama."

ETA: link to Derek's blog http://www.tvguide.com/news/dancing-derek-hough-blog-week8/

Edited May 23, 2015 by calipiano81

[shok]

Good grief. Is Derek still whining? Give it a rest already Golden Boy. You got so many added bonuses and benefits that the other teams didn't get and you still lost. Not enough people liked you and Nastia. It's that simple.

[truthaboutluv]

He is not STILL whinging. That was his blog post from the week when the video aired and the incident happened. If he is telling the truth of exactly what happened, he has every right to say it, in his blog, that no one is required to read, especially when his celebrity gets made to look awful just as they're getting down to the finals. But as Derek has always done, when he is eliminated, he takes his elimination and moves on. Of course not many mention the fact that he wrote a long and beautiful message for each team after the finale, on his Instagram, praising each of their freestyle and their hard work all season.

[realdancemom]

If that's what happened, then it's unfair.  The show should have also shown some of the funny moments that were linked in this forum earlier.  However, even when I saw the package, I didn't think badly of Nastia.  I figured she was just tired and frustrated.  So she didn't want to answer any questions.  In some ways, it humanized her.  She wasn't such a tough Olympian that hid her feelings all the time. 

 

Also, I think highly of Nastia because of the whole situation.  To me, when I read Derek's blog, it clearly showed that Derek and Nastia didn't really get a chance to know each other until he was injured.  This was caused by their crazy schedules.  I think that was unfair to Nastia.  She had to switch partners from Derek, Henry, to Sasha frequently.  But I haven't read anything about her complaining about any of it.

[Andiethewestie]

I think Nastia had a raw deal by agreeing to dance with Derek and his crazy schedules. Derek is great, don't get me wrong, but there is no way you can dance bi-coastal and put in the excellence required.  Any new partnership needs time to develop. The personality of distant and removed was only highlighted by the lack of connection between her and her partner.  You cannot blame the public for voting for something else, entertainment, inspiration what have you. 

 

This doesn't happen normally, normally the devotion is 100% to the show when it airs. Derek getting injured and being on the hook to New York and LA became the problem. Perhaps this is why the show runners highlighted the frustration.

 

Nastia was so good even despite the problems, imagine what she would be with  rehearsals of a healthy pro 100% of the time.  

[gingerandcloves]

I think Nastia had a raw deal by agreeing to dance with Derek and his crazy schedules. Derek is great, don't get me wrong, but there is no way you can dance bi-coastal and put in the excellence required.  Any new partnership needs time to develop. The personality of distant and removed was only highlighted by the lack of connection between her and her partner.  You cannot blame the public for voting for something else, entertainment, inspiration what have you. 

 

This doesn't happen normally, normally the devotion is 100% to the show when it airs. Derek getting injured and being on the hook to New York and LA became the problem. Perhaps this is why the show runners highlighted the frustration.

 

Nastia was so good even despite the problems, imagine what she would be with  rehearsals of a healthy pro 100% of the time.  

 

 

I totally agree. Even though I am not a fan of Derek's, Nastia was an excellent dancer, and I think having multiple partners hurt her. They had some great choreography, and Nastia is so talented, I'm sure any other season she would have made the finals and perhaps won, but all the switching around damaged her chances. It really is a shame.

[dirtydi]

The "regular off the internet watchers" who I talked to, told me they thought Nastia was an amazing dancer, but didn't think she was having the best time.  I don't know if it is because of the packages or her toughness that can read as closed off, on tv.  They all loved Rumer and Riker though and would have been happy with either winning.  I wish I was in their position (off the internet watchers), who love the show, but just don't watch it as in-depth as some of us do here or on All Access.

[Avidviewer]

Heads up:  Afterbuzz is back tonight, Sept. 16th at 4:10pm PT/ 7:10pm ET

 

For those of you who want to listen live

http://site.afterbuzztv.com/

 

[truthaboutluv]

Good first show. Got a little too loud and obnoxious at times, mostly Juelz in my opinion (I actually got the feeling a few times that Jake wasn't too impressed but maybe that was me reading into things). Few things:

 

Thought it was interesting that Jeulz, when discussing Tamar/Val, made a comment about Len not being there so there's no one on the panel with ballroom expertise. What's more interesting is no one corrected him because I'm pretty sure Julianne's being a champion winning ballroom dancer puts her in that category. In fact I believe Julianne is or was at one time the youngest and only American to win the International Youth Latin championship as well as Junior Blackpool World Latin championship. Something tells me she's probably more accomplished than Jeulz himself. I know some on this board expressed their feelings on her ability as a judge but I disagree that with Len gone no one is really qualified to judge the technique of the dance. Also, Jeulz said this when mentioning Tamar's frame and hold which Julianne did point out in her comment. 

 

I like Jake a lot and often agree with a lot of his comments but I disagree and really wish he'd stop with the "it's not Dancing With The Ballroom Star." So what the show does not have ballroom in its title, neither does Strictly Come Dancing which is the flagship show. The fact is the show was established on the premise of teaching celebrities to ballroom dance and that's what hooked viewers and many watched for. I'm all for evolving but when you change things too much to where it's no longer recognizable, then guess what, viewers leave and I haven't seen any evidence that they're drawing in that many new viewers/audience to risk alienating the established ones. Also if people wanted to see various styles they'd watch So You Think You Can Dance which considering how much they've struggled for years in ratings, many are not. 

 

Finally, I disagreed with the panel on most of their comments in regard to scores. There were some I thought were overscored (Hayes) and others they thought should have been higher that I didn't agree with. 

 

But overall good first show. Their energy was good. They all seemed genuinely interested and excited for the show and excited to share their comments. I lost count of how many people they seem to think will be in the finals though. It's like they do know it's only 4 couples in the end right?