Is It Worth Holding Out Hope For Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

[ZombieUpNorth]

I'm not buying the "our hands were tied by the movie" excuse.  So what if they couldn't say "Hydra"?  That doesn't prevent them from making their characters interesting, or telling interesting stories in an interesting way.

I agree. When you have people waiting for the stars of the show to die a horrible death, you know you took a bad turn.

 

The show's biggest problem is not its lack of supers, the CGI or even the story per se, its the damn characters(and actors) we are forced to follow. I would rather watch Maria Hill fill paperwork in the Stark building.

 

Is their hope? Maybe yes because Marvel seems to listen to the audience and they know they f up here. Maybe not because the show runners will be the same and so will be the main characters.

[caseylane]

Seriously, Ward's story could have gone into detail earlier. All it would take is a comment from Garret that the people he works for is looking for a certain type and Ward just might fit the requirements.

[Mybrainhurts]

I'm not sure if there is hope only because the major plot point that changed up everything (and made the show more watchable) didn't come from the writers or showrunners, but was imposed on them from outside writers.  The people involved with the show itself really didn't come up with anything remotely interesting for most of the season and it looks like that's what we're going to get for season 2 based on the fact that the finale closed out with yet more Coulson mystery and more Skye parent drama. Since those were the two storylines that really dragged down this past season, I don't know if I should get too excited about the upcoming one.  If they resolve those stories relatively quickly and move on to something else, there might be some hope but everyone involved in this show really seems to love Skye and Coulson to the point of ignoring everyone else which is dull after a while.  I want more May and Fitzsimmons and even Triplett over more Coulson and Skye.  (I'd love to see more evil Ward as well but I'm afraid the writers are going to do a "true love reforms Ward" story and I would have to kill my TV after that nonsense).  

[KatWay]

I do want Ward redeemed, at least to a point, but not through Skye's special love. There could be an interesting storyline there. Unfortunately, in the hands of these writers, I'm less than optimistic. I think he'll either go full cartoon villain or they'll go full melodrama with Skye and either isn't interesting to me. 

 

Unfortunately, the show's biggest problem is that the characters all remain pretty onedimensional and bland, and the inter-team dynamics aren't all that fascinating either. FitzSimmons were good, the May/Ward thing was at least interesting but the writers seem to think Coulson/Skye are the real draw and they just suck. I'd rather watch paint dry than Coulson blowing smoke up Skye's ass while she simpers and smiles. 

 

And it's pretty telling that the main cliffhangers were also Coulson and Skye. So we'll continue next season with the Who's the Specialest Snowflake standoff between those two characters. 

 

Also kind of sad when you think the only really interesting thing this show's done (Shield's destruction/Hydra/Ward the traitor) came from outside sources, not the writers themselves. They probably would have gone on with their boring supe of the week cases forever.

[Cranberry]

Weren't they aware from the very beginning of what was going to happen in CA: TWS, though? I can't remember which interview(s) I read it in (likely something post-finale), but I got the impression that they were basically forced to tread water until the movie came out.

[ChelseaNH]

Forced how?  I've seen at least a couple of articles about other shows that completely changed the game at the end of their first seasons, so the second season starts with the same characters in very different situations.  If people are doing it voluntarily, then how much of a handicap can it be?

 

If there are stories you can't tell because reasons, then find stories you can tell, and take the effort to tell them well.

[Llywela]

If there are stories you can't tell because reasons, then find stories you can tell, and take the effort to tell them well.

Absolutely. I don't doubt that they felt constrained by the need to wait for the movie before they could tell certain stories, but nonetheless they had the concept, the cast and the creativity to tell some amazing stories anyway, and failed to capitalise on that opportunity. The ideas were there, the characters were there...but sadly the execution wasn't. And yet it wouldn't have taken all that much to turn a long run of mediocre episodes into an exciting and fully engaging first season, because the problems really were all in the execution. If this or that had been tweaked, if all the ingredients had gelled properly from the beginning...

 

Well, it wasn't to be. But it did all come together in the end, so I shall keep my fingers crossed for a stronger second season!

[tv echo]

I agree with what Danny Franks posted above.  It was a mistake centering the show around Coulson.  I liked him in the Marvel movies but can't stand him in Agents of Shield.  I even liked Clark Gregg in Much Ado About Nothing.  But Coulson is a smug, annoying know-it-all who makes terrible decisions.  He was meant to stay a supporting character.  However, I do think Skye has potential if they downplay her special snowflake status and make her back story something really original.   The show's producers really need to do a major overhaul of the main cast, or at least bring in a new, charismatic character who gels well with the rest of the cast.

 

Casting is a large part of what makes the difference between a show like Firefly and a show like Agents of SHIELD.

 

I think the show still has potential.  It improved significantly after SHIELD went down and Ward was revealed as a Hydra agent.  For me, my expectations were so high when Agents of SHIELD first aired because, you know, Joss Whedon. that some disappointment was unavoidable.  But. quality-wise and originality-wise, I was expecting Firefly and I got NCIS.

Edited June 18, 2014 by tv echo

[KirkB]

But. quality-wise and originality-wise, I was expecting Firefly and I got NCIS.

 

   No, they only wish they were NCIS. NCIS has been on the air for ten years and has gotten consistent or better ratings every one of those years. I love the show and will be watching it as long as it's on.

[tv echo]

I meant no offense to NCIS fans.  I watched NCIS in its early seasons (after watching JAG for many seasons) because I love Mark Harmon.  But the episodes and plots started to feel interchangeable to me.  I also found Abby increasingly annoying. NCIS is a still a decent show and clearly very popular from the ratings.  But I view it more as "comfort food" than anything groundbreaking.  That's what I meant.  Shows like Firefly, Orphan Black, etc. are more original.  Because of Joss Whedon, I expected Agents of SHIELD to be more edgy.

Edited June 19, 2014 by tv echo

[KirkB]

Oh, I wasn't offended. Believe me, I'll make it very well known if that happens.  :)  And you're right, NCIS is comfort food. It's safe, because you always know what you're going to get, and I can absolutely understand why that would bore off some people. As for AoS, I would have agreed with you if it wasn't on at 7 on the Disney owned ABC. It was never going to be a hardcore, gritty spy drama, but I expected a lighthearted spy thriller, not the disjointed mess of a "we don't really know what kind of a tone we're supposed to have" that the first three fourths of the season was.

[Featherhat]

Actually I think NCIS is a decent comparison. The first few seasons (IMO) are a competently written but still engaging procedural which mostly succeeds on the strength of the character interactions with each other. Firefly is in a slightly different boat but if you look at it dispassionately its "TV Star Wars" or "too literal space western" but it becomes more than that on the strength of the writing and character interaction.

 

For me AOS was like both those but it didn't get beyond "competent enough fluff" writing and the characters were ok but didn't engage. They didn't have the chemistry with each other to overcome bland writing nor the writing to overcome a standard (possibly even stale) premise. Yes they were hamstrung a bit by CAP 2 but as said above a lot of shows "game change" after S1, especially genre shows. They could have tightened the writing and character interaction in even the blandest episodes to create better character moments and a set that didn't feel like it was being lived in by the characters. If you can't create something more interesting than what we got in 16 episodes because of someone else's lauded game changer, you really shouldn't be showrunning anything, all IMO.  

[Sarahastro]

For me, the problem with the first 2/3 of the show is that the adventures are not that engaging, and the characters are pretty flat. And I even like most of the characters, but they are pretty one-note. The last third amped up the plot, but the characters mostly improved simply because they were in more interesting situations, not because there were better character moments. For example, even though Skye and Simmons have some nice bonding moments earlier in the show, I'm not sure if they talk to each other once after "Turn, Turn, Turn." The episodes are really plot-driven, not character-driven. Personally I really liked the last few episodes, and I don't mind a show that's more about action than characters bonding (I was a big fan of Law & Order, which gave out character development incredibly slowly), but it does make me wonder how much the show will improve next season because I doubt we will have the kind of action that we had in the last six episodes over the entire next season.

[kitlee625]

Well I'm hoping that even without all the action, the mystery will be more engaging. I agree, we can't totally excuse the writers because of how they handled the show pre-CA:TWS reveal, but I think that they wanted to play it too close to the chest, and so it wound up coming off as less interesting. The story didn't make sense as being all connected, and so it wasn't clear how much we should be invested in each episode. I remember being legitimately shocked (and excited) when I realized that Centipede was connected to the eye implant from Eye Spy, but they could have made that connection earlier on. And with the Ward reveal, I would have been much more interested in his character if there had been hints that he (and May) were reporting to someone besides Coulson.

 

Hopefully by not trying to hide things from the audience they can make the story more engaging and connected from the beginning.

[Featherhat]

The thing is even the less "connected" episodes of Buffy are still (usually) entertaining TV. The show famously had richer ground to explore than might have been guessed from the title, but even the early episodes before Joss was able to develop his themes fully, were entertaining. They were both more imaginatively written and better acted and IMHO simply more engaging than current AOS, and that's current AOS even with the big twist because the characters still aren't popping for me, despite the vastly better plot.

 

At this point I think SG-1, one of my favourite "popcorn" action procedural shows had better early season "game changers" than AOS currently does and that limped on for 10 years.

 

It's possible that apparently not constrained by Cap 2 anymore that they will be able to unleash AOS at full potential. But what about when Marvel tells them they have to keep ******** explosive Avengers 2 secret quiet but work it into the show afterwards? It's not like the Post Thor 2 episode was particularly interesting and there weren't a fraction of the embargoes as there were later. I think actual "state of the MCU after Thor 2 reviews were more interesting than what they managed to do with the generally charismatic Jaime Alexander. There's always going to be something as long as the movies are running and "but, but, but....!" only works so many times until it comes down to the showrunners of this actual show.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Featherhat

[ottoDbusdriver]

Great question @Featherhat -- will SHIELD just be mysteriously reformed by the time Avengers 2 rolls out in 2015, and only addressed by some throwaway line at the start of the movie about how HYDRA has been purged from the ranks and SHIELD is back to normal ?  And that AoS will have to constrain itself to that plan. 

 

Or, if SHIELD is still defunct by the time of Avengers 2, are Coulson and co. going to soft pedal things for an entire season ?  They will continue to clean up Hydra and slowly put the pieces in place for SHIELD to rise from the ashes after Avengers 2.  

 

It will unfortunately lead to an entire AoS Season 2 of suck either way.

[redfish]

Or, if SHIELD is still defunct by the time of Avengers 2, are Coulson and co. going to soft pedal things for an entire season ?  They will continue to clean up Hydra and slowly put the pieces in place for SHIELD to rise from the ashes after Avengers 2.

 

Most likely. Although cleaning up the Hydra mess was Nick Fury's "quest". I think they might repeat the same pattern they did with season 1. They'll hold back their plot line with stuff that might remind me of Fringe and then when the movie comes around bang it out in the season finale. From what is revealed about the movie, Stark is now technically bankrolling The Avengers now, so the others will probably have little to no contact with SHIELD at all. So I seriously doubt they're going to have any Avenger characters dropping in on them. But then I don't think consistency and continuity is a priority for them. And that's the showrunner's problem/job, to make this about the agents and shine on its own unique merits and not be a placeholder/44 minute commerical for the movies.

[Grammaeryn]

I'm hoping that since The Guardians of the Galaxy is coming out this summer, AoS will be able to address the Kree. If not that, maybe do a storyline about kids disappearing in the 80's that parallels Peter Quill's backstory?

[amensisterfriend]

---Now that it's been about a year, do you guys feel the series showed marked improvement? Which have been your favorite characters/episodes/storylines and which aspects of the show do you think still have plenty of room to improve?! 

[blueray]

I really like season 2. They did a good job with Coulson's, Skye's and Fitz's storylines. As well as the action scenes in the show. I hope this season we get more of the group working as a team (minus Ward who is the villain ;) ).

[Raja]

---Now that it's been about a year, do you guys feel the series showed marked improvement? Which have been your favorite characters/episodes/storylines and which aspects of the show do you think still have plenty of room to improve?! 

The MCU building episodes have been my best. Especially the death of SHIELD surrounding the events in The Winter Soldier and the setup going into The Age Of Ultron was beautifully done. Bringing the Inhumans and the short SHIELD v Inhumans War was secondary. in is showing the promise of more super powered stuff coming. The stand alone episodes got better, the Madame Masque origin story maybe my favorite non Hydra or Inhumans story. Ward's story arc was okay. The weak point Coulson's season arc in my opinion.

 

I saw some of the powered beings on the Flash the question becomes will that level of FX be good enough when

the Secret Warriors,

friends and foes make their debut

[navelgazer]

If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.  I'm damn near done.  Watching this last one, everything is a double-double-double-cross, no one is who they seem to be, the flashbacks are confusing and unenlightening, and this doctor/android/senator villain combo is unimpressive, yet they keep coming out one step ahead of our heroes.

The only thing I did like was Mack and Yo-Yo.  Other than that, I want my 37 minutes back.   

And I miss Ward in all of his incarnations, even the ones I got sick of in the end.  

[TVSpectator]

18 hours ago, navelgazer said:

If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.  I'm damn near done.  Watching this last one, everything is a double-double-double-cross, no one is who they seem to be, the flashbacks are confusing and unenlightening, and this doctor/android/senator villain combo is unimpressive, yet they keep coming out one step ahead of our heroes.

The only thing I did like was Mack and Yo-Yo.  Other than that, I want my 37 minutes back.   

And I miss Ward in all of his incarnations, even the ones I got sick of in the end.  

 

I few thought here. The things that really are annoying me now, are:

- the fact that Fitz is acting like a badass and since when did he had this turn of character?

- the fact that everything has to be connected to the Inhumans

- They have started to downplay Daisy but the first half was literally all about Daisy. Sure they teamed her up with Robbie but I just hate how they always try to shoehorn her into a story. 

- I just don't care about the romance on this show. Please, show, just stop with the romance. 

- Why does this show like to return to the status quo of things and not just let things progress futher- what I am really talking is why they put Coulson back in charge as the secret director?

- Overall, I feel like the showrunners/writers just don't care anymore. I feel like this started back in Season 3 and it is just continuing. Sure the ratings are dropping but come on, writers just do something really interesting with the characters you have.