S06.E02: Two and a Half Men

[Guest]

Sam investigates a case about missing babies whose parents are being murdered. At one of the crime scenes, he discovers a baby that was left behind and calls Dean for help. Reluctant to leave Lisa and Ben, Dean finally agrees to meet Sam and surprises his brother with how parental he has become. The brothers take the baby to Samuel, who decides to raise it as a hunter, which infuriates Dean. However, before they can decide the baby's future, a shape-shifter breaks in and attempts to kidnap the baby.

 

 

[DittyDotDot]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I rather like the majority of this episode. Well, minus the Grampy Campbell bits anyway--I hope I don't repeat this sentiment too often throughout the season. I love how this episode feels like they're on the road again and I love the banter returning between Sam and Dean. And, I like the ideas they try to bring forward about if it's just a baby is it actually a monster? Shifters are the perfect way to explore this since they are one of the few monsters that don't need to feed off humans to stay alive. For them, being a monster is a choice more than anything.

 

I'm also enamored by a lot of the scenes with the baby--even though I do think they missed an opportunity to acknowledge that Dean changed Sam's diapers at one time. It's really is no surprise to me that Dean can take care of a baby. It does, however, seem very fitting that Sam wouldn't have a clue since he didn't have the "experience" Dean did. But my favorite parts are the supermarket scenes. Dean telling Sam to "shut it" and Sam's bewilderment over how to soothe the baby; and Dean telling the shifter to give him back the baby or he'll stab her in her neck is so priceless. And how I love to watch them chase the shifter around that store; Dean chasing her to Sam who gets the baby and then Dean tackling her and trying to stab her...I find the whole sequence is delightful, IMO.

 

But then they feel the need to annoy me with those stupid Campbells. Again, if I stop watching just before they show up at the Campbell Base of Ridiculousness--complete with it's own panic room, sigh--I find I really like this episode.

 

 

ETA: Smoke On The Water is a great way to end this episode, IMO.

Edited November 16, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[Demented Daisy]

Here we go again -- I agree.  Wasted potential.  I love the first half with the baby, but then it fell apart.  

[supposebly]

 

I do think they missed an opportunity to acknowledge that Dean changed Sam's diapers at one time.

 

Do we even know that's the case? I always think this is one of those "Supernatural myths" that have been perpetuated through enough fanfiction that people think it's true. Considering Dean was 4, Sam was 6 months old when Mary died, Sam would have been in diapers probably for another year? I would imagine that John tried to get Sam potty trained as fast as humanly possible. I'm having a hard time imagining Dean changing Sam's diapers when he was 4 or 5 years old. At least not on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice maybe because John was too drunk, depressed, or absent-minded during that first year after Mary's death but I also think he would probably have created an unholy mess.

 

That, at least, is my head canon. Unless I'm wrong and they actually said so at some point.

 

Overall, I agree on the Campbells. That whole part fell flat throughout the season. I still don't know why Samuel ended up in hell to begin with. It certainly wasn't his fault that he was possessed by YED. It certainly doesn't endear me to him. He was such a cool character in season 4, I really don't understand the need to drag him out and make him some werdo with a fetish for his dead daughter. Also, didn't Sam try to find any relatives in season 3 and they were all dead? Not that that made much sense either but it was established that there was no family left.

 

I can't stop giggling at Dean putting whisky in the baby's mouth. Such an old-fashioned thing to do for teething babies.

[DittyDotDot]

Do we even know that's the case? I always think this is one of those "Supernatural myths" that have been perpetuated through enough fanfiction that people think it's true. Considering Dean was 4, Sam was 6 months old when Mary died, Sam would have been in diapers probably for another year? I would imagine that John tried to get Sam potty trained as fast as humanly possible. I'm having a hard time imagining Dean changing Sam's diapers when he was 4 or 5 years old. At least not on a regular basis. Maybe once or twice maybe because John was too drunk, depressed, or absent-minded during that first year after Mary's death but I also think he would probably have created an unholy mess.

 

Of course it's a matter for interpretation, but I can imagine Dean trying to chip in and help take care of Sam after Mary died. My sister, who is three years older than me, changed my diapers frequently (or so I'm told). And my niece changed her baby sister's diapers a lot when she was 4-years-old (at first she was really into the idea, but got bored of it by the time her sister was 4-6 months old). I really don't find it hard to believe, at all, that Dean would've been quite successful at changing Sam's diapers. I'm not saying he was the only one changing Sam's diapers, but I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn he did it regularly.

 

My point actually was, though, Dean had some experience taking care of a baby--albeit, it had been some time--and this would've been an nice way to make the episode a bit more personal.

[rue721]

I can't stop giggling at Dean putting whisky in the baby's mouth. Such an old-fashioned thing to do for teething babies.

 

This was one of my favorite parts of the episode. I wish they would give Dean a kid just so we could see stuff like his shock that merry-go-rounds are outlawed as a safety hazard nowadays and that the ice cream man no longer sells candy cigarettes. He's such an old fart, I love it.

 

Also, didn't Sam try to find any relatives in season 3 and they were all dead? Not that that made much sense either but it was established that there was no family left.

 

I would have preferred that they'd only brought Samuel back, rather than dragging these other random Campbells into things. They were obviously just redshirts. Also, if they were going to bring any dead people back, it's so weird that it was Samuel. (Except that the actor is famous, I guess). But why couldn't it have been Mary? When she died, wasn't she even younger than the guys are now? Talk about a bizarre dynamic! But I suspect that the actual writers/producers aren't as into crack!speculation as I am, lol.

 

Anyway, the (young) Campbells were so tenuously related to the Winchesters, I didn't think they counted as family. What's a third cousin, your grandparent's cousin's grandchild?

[supposebly]

 

Dean had some experience taking care of a baby--albeit, it had been some time

 

My brother is 4 years 5 months younger than me and I could barely hold him. According to family legend, I "helped" my mother by standing around and handing her things. I remember I once let him roll off a chair and fall on his head when I was just about 5 (I think). I should ask my mother. He could hold his head up but he couldn't sit without support yet. That was traumatizing, so it stuck in my mind. No damage done, though. In case anyone is worried.

 

I think whatever Dean did at that age can't be considered experience since there is not a lot of memory from that age. Fine motor control to actually do it successfully is not that great at that age either. Let alone lifting him properly. Granted I'm a rather short female and I was small as a child but still. I find that really hard to reconcile with the age he was at the time, even considering the extraordinary circumstances. Also, he probably didn't play with dolls for "practice".

 

Back to Topic:

For my head canon, Dean could have said something about it but also complain that he really wasn't any good at it. It could have followed with an anecdote about exploding diapers to make Sam seriously embarrassed but then, this is soulless Sam, so it wouldn't have been such a big deal unless he played it right.

 

They did somewhat overplay the "panic" about having to take care of a baby but the kid was so adorable in the car that I forgave them.

 

 

But why couldn't it have been Mary?

 

Assuming that her soul was her ghost, she blew up in season 1 and there was nothing to resurrect. Considering she sold out her second-born son and lived a lie with her husband instead of preparing to keep her "normal life" only for him to stumble into a burning nursery, I'm not that fussed.

Edited December 17, 2014 by supposebly

[catrox14]

I just figured between Dean having some muscle memory of changing Sams diaper at least a few times and that Lisa had a baby niece that he probably helped with at least once or twice, that Dean was appropriately underestimating his baby caring skills and Sam being soulless was an asshole about it.

[rue721]

Assuming that her soul was her ghost, she blew up in season 1 and there was nothing to resurrect. Considering she sold out her second-born son and lived a lie with her husband instead of preparing to keep her "normal life" only for him to stumble into a burning nursery, I'm not that fussed.

 

I hear you, but I just find Samuel so random. There are plenty of dead people that could have come back, considering that everyone dies at least once on this show, and with the massive amount of fridging going on, they've especially got a bunch of young women to resurrect. Or Deanna, tbh. I would have taken Deanna over Samuel. Or Jessica or Mary over Samuel. Or really anyone over Samuel, because he was kind of interesting I guess in that time travel episode, but they don't really need YET ANOTHER crotchety old man on the show imo. Not that I think that Deanna or Jessica or Mary would have been more popular than Samuel in general, I was just personally kind of done with the crotchety and blustering old man thing they had going on that point. They had Bobby and Rufus, too, ffs. (Though I liked Rufus, he gets somewhat of a pass because he wasn't really that blustering or crotchety imo). Also, if they were going to have someone come on the show and claim to be family, I think it would have been more interesting to have a woman, since they'd also never had a woman in the family before. Would have maybe shaken things up more than boring old demonic Samuel did. Well anyway.

 

 

My brother is 4 years 5 months younger than me and I could barely hold him. According to family legend, I "helped" my mother by standing around and handing her things. I remember I once let him roll off a chair and fall on his head when I was just about 5 (I think). I should ask my mother. He could hold his head up but he couldn't sit without support yet. That was traumatizing, so it stuck in my mind. No damage done, though. In case anyone is worried.

 

I think that's pretty normal tbh. Four- or five-year-olds are so little. Wouldn't a six-month-old be about half a four-year-old's size? I feel like a kid that young trying to carry a baby that big would result in a hernia at best. You know, except if he's got the strength of ten men or whatever because they're fleeing a burning building. So where could the baby be getting changed that a small child could get him to, and don't you have to lift the baby somewhat in order to clean him or to get the diaper on him? Even if a young kid could help, I don't think he could do it all on his own. But I know nothing at all about babies, have never diapered one in my life, so that could be wrong. I do know that my helping at that age was not particularly helpful. One of my few memories of being four or so is deciding to be ~helpful~ against my parents' express wishes, and washing the dishes while they were out on the balcony playing cards. Of course I flooded the kitchen, etc etc etc. That scolding was so bad that I was terrified of messing up the dish washing for years after! I don't think that children that young are capable of being all that helpful, tbh. They're too small and uncoordinated, and too young to have much practice doing anything. But maybe that's not true, maybe they can be helpful and I just wasn't, lol.

 

ETA:  oops, off-topic. Well, I guess my point is that I was fine with Dean not remembering baby-care from thirty years earlier, especially considering he and Sam aren't that far apart in age and I'm doubtful that he would have been capable of much baby care back in Sam's babyhood anyway. 

 

But I actually really enjoyed this episode overall. Cute babies + shifters + movement on the longer arcs + Soulless!Sam being thoughtlessly awful = fun episode, imo.

Edited December 17, 2014 by rue721

[supposebly]

 

I hear you, but I just find Samuel so random.

 

True. But I happen to like Mitch Pileggi from the X-files so, initially, I didn't have a problem. I did have a problem with how they wrote him in season 6. I also don't know who they could have Crowley resurrect him. Overall, as so often, they did NOT think things through.

Actually, now that I tihnk about it, Mary might have dodged a bullet there considering she made a deal, which gets you a ticket to Hell most of the time even if the deal wasn't actually for her soul. Sticking around as a ghost might have prevented her from ending up in Hell. Alongside with her husband and first son. Considering that, it actually would have made sense that she would be resurrected by Crowley.

 

I realize, I'm a bit bitter about her sanctification in the show while John gets so much grief for how he dealt with the surprises Mary left behind.

 

I would have loved Jessica! Reunited and hunting with a soulless Sam! That would have been interesting! Or at least rather messed-up. Which is how I like this show best.

[DittyDotDot]

I think people tend to underestimate young children these days. My nephew was perfectly capable of changing diapers when he was four--although he didn't have occasion to do it that I know of. And as I said, one of my nieces did it frequently with her younger sister at the same ages depicted here. I didn't say she did it perfectly or anything, but the job was good enough to pass. It made her feel like she was a great big sister and good helper.

 

My mom has told endless stories about how my sister--again, she's only three years older than me--was left in charge of me while my mom took my brother and other sister with her and went out and milked the cow, fed the chickens and did other chores outside. Usually, I was sleeping or something like that, but my mom said if had been up to my sister she would've taken charge of my entire care.

 

Again, I'm not saying Dean was left to fully care for Sam, but I also can imagine Dean pitching in and doing it on occasion considering they were living on the road and such. Most boys aren't fully potty trained until they're 2 years old and some take even longer--in general, girls are easier to potty train, so 18-24 months is fairly regular--which would mean Dean would be six before Sam was fully out of diapers. I'm just saying, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility.

[rue721]

I realize, I'm a bit bitter about her sanctification in the show while John gets so much grief for how he dealt with the surprises Mary left behind.

 

What do you mean by her sanctification? All those dull memories and stories of Dean's? Tbh, anything that Dean says about his parents, I take with a gigantic grain of salt because we've seen enough of John and Mary to know that how Dean describes them and how they actually act onscreen bears a passing resemblance at best. I actually prefer the on-screen versions, though, they're livelier. Or do you mean something else? I don't even know where she is now, anyway -- Hell?

 

I've liked young!Mary but tbh it's mostly because I like her fight scenes. She's kind of a mess, though. I mean, she promised her (hypothetical) future child to YED in return for John's life, didn't she? Dean takes after her, seems like. Did she also make another deal for her soul, too? Honestly, I don't remember, it seems like there are just so many deals. Anyway, I just generally like John, for no reason really except that he appeals to me, but young!John was especially great in that episode when Anna is coming after John and Mary to keep Sam and Dean from being born, and about five seconds after learning of the existence of the supernatural, young!John gets all intense, cuts his own hand, and demands to put blood sigils everywhere himself. I was like, WOW I like this guy! Can this guy be a character from now on, please? But I like Henry, too. I guess I just like the Winchesters. Even though the women in their family don't tend to fare too well.

 

I would have loved Jessica! Reunited and hunting with a soulless Sam! That would have been interesting! Or at least rather messed-up. Which is how I like this show best.

 

IA, the show is best when it's fairly batshit. Jessica/Soulless!Sam would have been very fun. I'm actually surprised that the show hasn't brought her back. But maybe they've even thought about it but Adrianne Palicki has been too busy, who knows.

 

ETA:

The reason I would have liked Mary or Jessica (or both!) to come back is honestly because it also always makes me happy to think of a fridged character coming back and spoiling the ~grand symbolism~ of her death for all the characters who have been trying to "avenge" her.

Edited December 18, 2014 by rue721

[supposebly]

 

What do you mean by her sanctification? All those dull memories and stories of Dean's?

Taking it to the John Winchester thread.

[GirlyGeek]

I like this episode quite a bit. There's a lot of funny moments, I like the questions it poses wrt when is a monster a monster, and this time around I enjoyed watching Sam and Dean trying to navigate where they're at and who they are now, post hell.

I don't mind Samuel and the gang, though I agree they're random and it annoys me how they talk down to Dean. I of course, on first viewing and on re watch, knew they were up to no good.

The idea of shifters is interesting to me. Like DittyDotDot mentioned above, we find out here they are born and they don't need to eat humans or kill to survive afaik so why are the ones we've seen on the show evil? What makes them decide to be that way? Cause they're freaks (oohh, that could be a can of worms, lol) ;). Just interesting monsters to ponder

[Dobian]

It's only two episodes into season 6 but I'm not feeling it yet with this whole family of hunters premise and Sam now taking on Dean's role from the early seasons while Dean has sort of become the old Sam.  And Dean's significant other just agrees that he can run around and hunt and just pop in whenever he can find some time off, it's just too convenient.  After the epicness of the main story arc that drove the first five seasons, I won't be surprised if this season's a letdown.

[Hanahope]

Yes I agree with the above, I'm not sure I'm feeling this yet. Sam acting so different, the weird 'family' , and Dean really not working for he family life as he wanted. 

Then the agreeing with raising the baby as a hunter, the old Sam would never have allowed that.

the family trying to capture the monsters makes me think of that government military group in Buffy, trying to change them.

[bettername2come]

"Mark my words, Ben, you will never shoot a gun." He's having such a dad moment. I like Lisa's "I'm not arguing, you're the expert" moment. She really has been immensely trusting of him without being a pushover. "Everyone's staring at us like we're child abusers!" "Give me the baby before I stab you in your neck." I love daddy Dean, with the baby and his fatherly feelings towards Ben. I think it's so cute that they keep calling the baby Bobby John after accidentally naming him that. The shapeshifter posing as the baby daddy is just creepy. Did the baby shapeshift into the baby on the diaper box? I missed that the first time around. Dean's smart no to trust the hunters. They needed to give the Campbell from Whistler and Flashpoint more to do. Alas, we hardly knew ye. Hey, I didn't realize this was the first instance of a shapeshifter that didn't have to shed and the Alpha plot line. I thought that nonsense came later.  Sam's using babies as bait! He is not to be trusted! I miss Dean's long-sleeved non button up shirts. I like Lisa trying to make it work with Dean and compromise. Nice touch having Dean hum "Smoke on the Water" to the baby, and then playing it for the reintroduction of Baby.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

The show kind of gave it away with the shifter in the previouslies.  

I think when Ben said that he knew there were things out there, it would have been kinder to teach him in order for him to be prepared rather than adamantly keeping him away from hunting.  I really do like Lisa.  Huh - I wonder if Dean thought about how John did it, since they did go to school at least, knowing that there might be something coming for Sam.  

I love how disgusted Dean still is when the skin comes off the shifter in the grocery store.  

There might be something off about Sam but he smiles more in this episode than he did all last season, I think.  Maybe that's how we know there's something wrong with him.  Boy, that's sad.  

Ah, Dean was enjoying the magic fingers.  

Were the Campbells staying at the old homestead place where Mary took Sam and Dean in the past?

[Iju]

hmm, dean seems to slowly be becoming his dad in terms of how to protect his family. maybe he will understand john now.

yaaay, another shapeshifter. i like them, didn't think they'd reoccur again.

lol. love sam's car. classic high quality car of its time.

"How do you know this baby stuff?" i think sam was hoping something else than dean's reply.

man i do not trust their extended family. at all. and i'm so mad the baby got taken! i'll be worried about it the whole series.

[catrox14]

16 hours ago, Iju said:

hmm, dean seems to slowly be becoming his dad in terms of how to protect his family. maybe he will understand john now.

I'm truly baffled by this reading of Dean here. Dean was adamant about keeping the guns OUT of Ben's hands. Dean was keeping them out of the hunting life.  Dean has always understood John which is why he's trying to do the exact opposite with Ben and Lisa here.

[Iju]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm truly baffled by this reading of Dean here. Dean was adamant about keeping the guns OUT of Ben's hands. Dean was keeping them out of the hunting life.  Dean has always understood John which is why he's trying to do the exact opposite with Ben and Lisa here.

well i mean sam noticed it as well but i mean everyone can have their own views right? BTW i wasn't talking about hunting i was talking about how suddenly constricting he was with his "family" but as i said you can have your own opinion.

[catrox14]

8 hours ago, Iju said:

well i mean sam noticed it as well but i mean everyone can have their own views right? BTW i wasn't talking about hunting i was talking about how suddenly constricting he was with his "family" but as i said you can have your own opinion.

And that is Sam's opinion about Dean. That doesn't make it true. If your sympathies lie with Sam and noot with Dean then you will agree with Sam. Doesn't mean Sam is accurate.

[DeeDee79]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:13 AM, catrox14 said:

I'm truly baffled by this reading of Dean here. Dean was adamant about keeping the guns OUT of Ben's hands. Dean was keeping them out of the hunting life.  Dean has always understood John which is why he's trying to do the exact opposite with Ben and Lisa here.

True indeed. If Dean were truly channeling John he would be trying to pull Ben into the hunting life instead of trying to shield him from it.

 

22 hours ago, Iju said:

well i mean sam noticed it as well but i mean everyone can have their own views right? BTW i wasn't talking about hunting i was talking about how suddenly constricting he was with his "family" but as i said you can have your own opinion.

What exactly did Sam notice? Actually Sam was against them being turned into hunters at such a young age. Remember in the pilot when he stated that their dad "raised them like warriors?" If anything I would say that Sam and Dean would be on the same page in regards to Dean's reaction to Ben's curiosity about hunting. IMO of course; not trying to sway whatever thoughts you've formed from watching.

[Iju]

On 19/04/2018 at 6:31 AM, catrox14 said:

And that is Sam's opinion about Dean. That doesn't make it true. If your sympathies lie with Sam and noot with Dean then you will agree with Sam. Doesn't mean Sam is accurate.

wow....i was...i was saying if sam thought the sam as i did then i can't be the only one thinking that. that's all. i don't see how my saying my opinion matching up with sam's makes it accurate or whatever but you do you i guess.

On 19/04/2018 at 8:37 PM, DeeDee79 said:

What exactly did Sam notice? Actually Sam was against them being turned into hunters at such a young age. Remember in the pilot when he stated that their dad "raised them like warriors?" If anything I would say that Sam and Dean would be on the same page in regards to Dean's reaction to Ben's curiosity about hunting. IMO of course; not trying to sway whatever thoughts you've formed from watching.

there were no thoughts swayed in this episode. in fact, none of my opinions on the entire show up to now have been swayed because of what anyone said inside of it. i thought what sam said in the first minutes of the episode, long before he uttered the words. again, i never said the similarities of john and dean is their hunting choices. obviously not. but john was pretty strict with them and didn't give them a lot of freedom, and that's just what dean was doing. they were doing it for the sake of love and protection but the similarities are there.

[DeeDee79]

3 minutes ago, Iju said:

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:37 PM, DeeDee79 said:

 

there were no thoughts swayed in this episode. in fact, none of my opinions on the entire show up to now have been swayed because of what anyone said inside of it.

I didn't say that your thoughts were swayed by what was in the episode. I was stating that with my opinion I wasn't trying to sway whatever thoughts that you had formed yourself after you watched the ep.

[Iju]

15 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I didn't say that your thoughts were swayed by what was in the episode. I was stating that with my opinion I wasn't trying to sway whatever thoughts that you had formed yourself after you watched the ep.

ah okay, i misunderstood you there. my apologies.

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, Iju said:

ah okay, i misunderstood you there. my apologies.

No worries!

[DittyDotDot]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:51 PM, Iju said:

i never said the similarities of john and dean is their hunting choices. obviously not. but john was pretty strict with them and didn't give them a lot of freedom, and that's just what dean was doing. they were doing it for the sake of love and protection but the similarities are there.

Yes, this was exactly what Sam was saying. Just because he didn't want Ben and Lisa in the hunting life doesn't mean that he wasn't doing things that John did with Sam and Dean, which was isolate them from everyone, moving them around from place to place and keeping them on lockdown. It's just not a sustainable way to live if you have to work and your kid needs to go to school regularly. But, it's all Dean knew to keep them safe and he learned it from John--not that Dean was literally being John, just using something he learned from John.

[catrox14]

9 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Yes, this was exactly what Sam was saying. Just because he didn't want Ben and Lisa in the hunting life doesn't mean that he wasn't doing things that John did with Sam and Dean, which was isolate them from everyone, moving them around from place to place and keeping them on lockdown. It's just not a sustainable way to live if you have to work and your kid needs to go to school regularly. But, it's all Dean knew to keep them safe and he learned it from John--not that Dean was literally being John, just using something he learned from John.

Big difference though. Dean moved them from one home to another home. Not dragging them around in a life on the road from hotel to hotel. He didn't...keep them on lockdown. It was one night of Dean lying about pizza because he was worried. Ben got to be in school and Lisa I guess picked up work as a yoga instructor along the way.  I'm sorry but I just don't see anything the same other than on a surface level. The context is dramatically different.

[DittyDotDot]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Big difference though. Dean moved them from one home to another home. Not dragging them around in a life on the road from hotel to hotel. He didn't...keep them on lockdown. It was one night of Dean lying about pizza because he was worried. Ben got to be in school and Lisa I guess picked up work as a yoga instructor along the way.  I'm sorry but I just don't see anything the same other than on a surface level. The context is dramatically different.

Exactly why I said NOT literally being John, but taking something he learned from John. I think all @Iju was trying to say was that Dean was starting to move into paranoid John territory until Sam pointed it out and Dean realized he didn't want that. I don't think he was trying to say that Dean was being John though...that was my point.

Edited May 5, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[DeeDee79]

11 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I'm sorry but I just don't see anything the same other than on a surface level. The context is dramatically different.

I completely agree.

[gonzosgirrl]

46 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I completely agree.

I think the big difference is John was paranoid because he was actively putting his family in danger by hunting/chasing Mary's murderer. Dean was actively trying to avoid doing that. Intention is key here. IMO. And John did it suspecting what might be out there. Dean knows exactly what he's shielding them from. In spades.

[Iju]

On 04/05/2018 at 2:22 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Yes, this was exactly what Sam was saying. Just because he didn't want Ben and Lisa in the hunting life doesn't mean that he wasn't doing things that John did with Sam and Dean, which was isolate them from everyone, moving them around from place to place and keeping them on lockdown. It's just not a sustainable way to live if you have to work and your kid needs to go to school regularly. But, it's all Dean knew to keep them safe and he learned it from John--not that Dean was literally being John, just using something he learned from John.

i don't interpret sam's claiming his and dean's likeliness that way. and if he did, then okay i can't do anything about that. and i'm not saying dean should let the people he cares about run free with no protection, but he wouldn't even let them all go out to eat. would there have been a danger having a small family outing? there could have been and there could have been not. what my point is that john and dean were very much alike when it came to protecting their family. not that he was transforming into john, heavens no! lol

[hypnotoad]

Quote

But then they feel the need to annoy me with those stupid Campbells. Again, if I stop watching just before they show up at the Campbell Base of Ridiculousness--complete with it's own panic room, sigh--I find I really like this episode.

Could not agree more! I am working my way through the show on Netflix ... I admit really slowed down after barreling through the first few seasons. I like the actor who plays Grandpa Campbell on X Files but my God I hate seeing him on this show. The minute he shows up my eyes just start rolling and adding the entire Campbell compound makes it so much worse.

I liked this episode overall ... I hope the Campbell gang doesn't ruin this entire season. I'm already tired of angels ... which doesn't bode well for me getting through to season 13 but I'm determined to try. But add the Campbell's and the angels? I. Will. Not. Make. It.

I really is the guys that keep me going on this show. Even when they are at odds, the chemistry between JP and JA always keeps me engaged (and I mean brotherly chemistry!).

[The Companion]

I know spoilers are part of watching a show late, but I am bummed I keep getting spoiled because I really like the insight in these threads. Anyway, I had to skip a lot again. 

I just got the baby down when I turned this on and I very much needed the babies to be ok. 

It was fun to watch the guys together awkwardly trying to take care of the baby. I felt like the reasoning to pull Dean back in was thin, but I don't care because the grocery scene was great. When we brought our son home, I had a decent amount of baby experience because of my little brother (5 years younger) and babysitting, but my husband had never changed a diaper because he was the baby. The difference in Sam's and Dean's experience reminded me a bit of that. 

The babies were adorable. I loved revisiting the question raised in the Rougarou episode. What do you do with someone who has not yet become a monster/not yet done anything evil? I thought it was sweet how protective Dean got and disturbing how Sam wasn't. 

I agree with some of the above comments that the Campbells and particularly Grandpa Campbell are not particularly interesting. I would have liked a woman to be brought back as well.

The dynamic is off. Part of that is Sam being off and part of it is the Campbells. I like this show for the sibling dynamic. I don't mind tertiary characters. I love Bobby and wish they had done more with Bella. But I am tired of not getting the guys running on all cylinders together. This episode gave us a little taste of that, but it was over far too soon.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I know spoilers are part of watching a show late, but I am bummed I keep getting spoiled because I really like the insight in these threads. Anyway, I had to skip a lot again. 

Sorry you're experiencing that.  I try really hard not to reference future plot points in the individual epi threads but sometimes you just forget.

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

I agree with some of the above comments that the Campbells and particularly Grandpa Campbell are not particularly interesting. I would have liked a woman to be brought back as well.

Annoyingly Marc was my favorite and he didn't exactly last very long.  I mean he just kind of sat there and mumbled something every once in a while.  He should have been a mastermind of something instead of just getting his neck snapped in his second epi.

[The Companion]

Just now, Katy M said:

Sorry you're experiencing that.  I try really hard not to reference future plot points in the individual epi threads but sometimes you just forget.

Annoyingly Marc was my favorite and he didn't exactly last very long.  I mean he just kind of sat there and mumbled something every once in a while.  He should have been a mastermind of something instead of just getting his neck snapped in his second epi.

I know the risk, but enjoy the insight too much to avoid the threads. I totally get that it is hard, especially when people are going back to comment. 

Yeah, he was sort of interesting and feels wasted.

[MagnusHex]

Mitch Pileggi playing an untrustworthy character who might or might not be an ally just gave me a nostalgic X-Files vibe as I was watching this. God, I miss Skinner. lmao I promise I won't spam this forum with unrelated mentions of X-Files every episode. 😛

Mark's down, and that's one Campbell fallen. It's a shame, but I was also kinda relieved that not all the Campbell family members were redshirt fodders to be killed off, particularly Samuel. Much as I like Sam and Dean, I would prefer to expand the ensemble to keep things fresh to be honest.

Wait, is Samuel... Samael? lol I'm spitballing here, but nonetheless I'd appreciate no untagged spoilers. 😛But still, it makes sense if that's the case, considering Samael is the king of all demons, "the true name of Satan." Would explain all of Samuel's suspicious behavior. From the speech he gave at the end, it didn't necessarily feel like he's Lucifer in disguise, but a big demon honcho might be possible. But just ignore all of this speculation if I'm wrong. lol

The whole two men and a baby broad comedy schtick was fine, if mediocre and cliched. It was brief enough not to annoy me, so it's not really an issue.

I like Dean's moral dilemma this episode if only because I had a tough dad growing up too, and I too had the fear of becoming like my dad too if I ever have children of my own, especially when I already have an anger problem even today. IIRC, it's not the first time Dean voiced this concern, but it's not frequent enough that it would feel like a retread this episode. However, as one could easily predict if he's seen half of this show's season openers, Dean is back on the road again with Sam while Lisa and Ben have once again become secondary plot device to welcome him home without consequence whenever he feels like it. It all feels a little cheap and contrived, and I wouldn't have minded had Lisa gotten a more meaningful role down the road, but ah well, that's the CW for you.

Smoke on the Water is cool, but it just feels like one of those lazy ways writers use to convey the character enjoys rock and heavy metal, much like the use of AC/DC's Highway to Hell. It's like, I'm sure Deep Purple has other great tunes they could mine from if they really want to make a rock & roll reference. Everybody just knows Smoke from Purple. Don't get me wrong though, as I do like these songs whenever they come up in the show (the use of Thunderstruck in the season 5 opening recap was almost better than Wayward Son).

Also next week episode, Cas is back! I can see why this episode is titled that way now, with the following one being The Third Man. Kinda on the nose, but I'll take it. I read that Cas will be nerfed going forward though. Sigh. Angels were easily the most badass thing to have ever happened to this series. But I guess that's also the reason why they had to tone it down to prevent writing themselves into a corner.

AV Club Zack Handlen's observations worth noting: 1) What's with the "last episode recap" for this episode? Giving away that the monster's identity is a shifter seems kinda odd with Sam and Dean trying to figure out what the monster is for quite a while. Dramatic irony, I guess. 2) Shifter shifting into people in the same room. Uhhh... was it done just to show off? Alpha's got an ego, I guess.

3/5

[DeeDee79]

8 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

Mitch Pileggi playing an untrustworthy character who might or might not be an ally just gave me a nostalgic X-Files vibe as I was watching this. God, I miss Skinner. lmao I promise I won't spam this forum with unrelated mentions of X-Files every episode. 😛

 

Don't feel bad! I called him Skinner instead of Samuel in my head every time he appeared on screen and still thought of Rufus as Mr. X in the beginning 😄

Edited March 26, 2023 by DeeDee79

[MAK]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:02 AM, DeeDee79 said:

Rufus as Mr. X in the beginning 😄

I went even further, I kept calling Rufus Captain Fuller!

[MagnusHex]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

I went even further, I kept calling Rufus Captain Fuller!

I literally thought "Mr. X survived and settled down in Jarden" watching the first episode of The Leftovers, season 2, where he showed up as Virgil.