S07.E08: The Separation Of Crows

[Moncheechee]

Nero orchestrated the dead birds, writing on the wall and stabbed stuffed animal to get Gemma and Jax on board with moving the boys to the farm.

[La Tortuga]

Nero orchestrated the dead birds, writing on the wall and stabbed stuffed animal to get Gemma and Jax on board with moving the boys to the farm.

 

I don't think that's what happened, mostly because Sutter doesn't seem to have written Nero to be that much of a Machiavellian thinker, but if it turns out to be the case, I will be highly impressed.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Nero orchestrated the dead birds, writing on the wall and stabbed stuffed animal to get Gemma and Jax on board with moving the boys to the farm.

If it was Nero then he has no clue who he has gotten into bed with both literally and figuratively. There is no way Gemma would go with him to his little farm in the country and leave King Jax and there is no way Jax would let that happen. Nero is thinking like a normal, if wrong side of violent person. Jax and Gemma have crossed over a line a long time ago. Tara was, for better or worse, the voice of reason. Now that she is dead Jax is hearing nothing but the voice of revenge and anarchy in his head.

As for Abel. I don't actually think he is a psychopath, I think he is an angry 4 year old with no place to put his anger. Like the teacher said; he needs to talk to someone but Gemma nixed that straight away. If Abel got help and if all things were equal he would get through the death of his mother eventually. but no one his helping him. The scene where he was coloring in from of his brothers crib looked more like he was protecting his brother then anything. I think there are severe mental and emotional issues that need to be dealt with but they won't be because The Teller/Morrows are who they are and because of that Abel will end up in prison or juvie before he is a teenager....or dead.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[PiggyRod]

Nero orchestrated the dead birds, writing on the wall and stabbed stuffed animal to get Gemma and Jax on board with moving the boys to the farm.

Wow.

 

That would be a surprise if true.

[La Tortuga]

I think something is tickling the back of Unser's mind. I think he is close to the truth of Tara's death but too close to see it but if anyone does it will be him.

 

 

I can see the wheels turning in Unser's head. All the dots are in place, but he can't connect them. Gemma hides Juice from the club. Gemma tries to get Juice out of town. Gemma claims Juice pulled a gun on her and left her in the desert. Juice comes back into town (does Unser know Juice was driving her car?) and eventually tries to get in good with the club again. Nero connects Juice, Gemma, and Tara in a conversation, but doesn't explain it. Gemma freaks right out after Juice talks to Jax, and insists that Wendy send Nero to the cabin. Juice says he's going to name names to corroborate Gemma's story all of a sudden.

 

Unser's looking for the right word to describe the situation, and what he probably should have figured out after years of working with and around this club is that everything always comes back to one thing with these people: leverage.

[monakane]

I think something is tickling the back of Unser's mind. I think he is close to the truth of Tara's death but too close to see it but if anyone does it will be him.

 

 

He knows she drove off with his truck after he told her Tara was going to rat on Samcro.  How could he not know from the beginning?  

[The Real Chon]

Here's a thought, one I've been mulling since last season: Rat as rat. His presence there has always seems a little bit off.

[leisawoo]

I guess I was just bored by the time they showed Jury's death. I honestly thought that Jury was just planting seeds (cuz, of course, no one ever has or keeps real proof concerning Charming shenanigans) in Jax's pea brain. To show him JT was so vehemently against SAMCRO becoming the kind of club It now is that he killed himself. Rme. More angst for the idiot, albeit a hot idiot. I hate how long it is between seasons and I'm running on one hour of sleep but: didn't Gemma tell Jax that Clay was behind JT's death or did that lil secret go undiscovered? I thought that fueled the Avalanche of rage against Clay that culminated in the club deciding to kill Clay off. Maybe, Sutter is trying to completely derail Jax by having him realize in wtf ever realizations he comes to, he didn't need to kill Clay. He should certainly think that Clay would not have pulled the cockamamie bullshit and allowed the club so much damage. I know Clay used the club, killed Piney 'n all that but his shit did not have SUCH far reaching consequences into so damn many criminal factions at once. Bobby being hurt would have killed Clay. Clay may have been heavy handed but didn't they used to vote and shit on what they were gonna do and everybody got to express their views? Jax is just a disaster. Anybody else tell Chibs to just shoot Jax when he was standing behind him with his hand on his shoulder? Chibs needs to take over. Of course, he'll probably absorb the responsibility for shit since he told Jackie boy"you can't not do anything" or some similar bs. Sorry for being long winded, lol

[panthergirl13]

Um, I could be wrong but I think everyone is giving Abel and Abel (twins, I'm assuming) too much credit as "actors'. The reason the kid seems so dead-eyed is because half the time he is just repeating something said to him off-camera. You'll notice that during the dialogue with Gemma, you don't actually see her say things like "You know you really hurt that kid" directly to him. I find the it so distracting because when you compare it with, say, the child actors on Boardwalk Empire (including the little Tommys who were amazing even at about 3-4 years old) there is nothing going on behind those dead eyes. And the kid is usually 2-seconds away from cracking up. (but then again, aren't we all?)

[leisawoo]

I would love to see Jax quote the line from 300 to the club before putting any and all of his plans in motion. The dine in hell one fits but also: "this will not be over quickly. You will NOT enjoy this. I am not your king."

[terrymct]

I think something is tickling the back of Unser's mind. I think he is close to the truth of Tara's death but too close to see it but if anyone does it will be him.

 

No one appears to be asking WHY Lin might have wanted to kill Tara.   Sure, the gangs/clubs are always jockeying for position in the gun and drug trades.  Sure, there are egos involved.  But no one has said clearly why Lin would have been super pissed off enough to kill Jax's wife out of the blue.   

[PiggyRod]

Here's a thought, one I've been mulling since last season: Rat as rat. His presence there has always seems a little bit off.

I have been thinking about that for a while now, I don't clearly remember where Rat came from. I find myself thinking back at certain key moments in the show trying to place where Rat was at that time.

[La Tortuga]

I hate how long it is between seasons and I'm running on one hour of sleep but: didn't Gemma tell Jax that Clay was behind JT's death or did that lil secret go undiscovered? I thought that fueled the Avalanche of rage against Clay that culminated in the club deciding to kill Clay off. Maybe, Sutter is trying to completely derail Jax by having him realize in wtf ever realizations he comes to, he didn't need to kill Clay. He should certainly think that Clay would not have pulled the cockamamie bullshit and allowed the club so much damage.

 

Tara had the letters that implicated both Clay and Gemma in JT's death. She allowed Gemma to hand them over to Jax, knowing full well that Gemma would burn whichever letters implicated herself and only leaving the ones that implicated Clay. When Jax read the letters he had, he decided to kill Clay, and that's when Tara gave him a syringe and told him to inject Clay with the contents (Clay being in the hospital at the time). But of course, there was something to interrupt the assassination, so Clay's death was delayed a while longer, until Sutter could make up new stuff the get the rest of the club on board with killing Clay as well.

[PiggyRod]

Tara had the letters that implicated both Clay and Gemma in JT's death. She allowed Gemma to hand them over to Jax, knowing full well that Gemma would burn whichever letters implicated herself and only leaving the ones that implicated Clay. When Jax read the letters he had, he decided to kill Clay, and that's when Tara gave him a syringe and told him to inject Clay with the contents (Clay being in the hospital at the time). But of course, there was something to interrupt the assassination, so Clay's death was delayed a while longer, until Sutter could make up new stuff the get the rest of the club on board with killing Clay as well.

Were those original letters or copies?

 

In terms of proof, is there anything linking Gemma to JT's death?

 

On another note, Juice said he would give the cops the "other" person who killed Tara AND the murder weapon. Are we supposed to believe they will still be able to find it? Wasn't it put in a dumpster?  Furthermore, if they do find it, how can Juice explain KNOWING where it was?

Edited October 29, 2014 by PiggyRod

[Artsda]

 

Were those original letters or copies?

Originals, Clay had copies which he burned.

[La Tortuga]

No one appears to be asking WHY Lin might have wanted to kill Tara.   Sure, the gangs/clubs are always jockeying for position in the gun and drug trades.  Sure, there are egos involved.  But no one has said clearly why Lin would have been super pissed off enough to kill Jax's wife out of the blue.   

 

The Sons and the Chinese were already kind of at war over the gun trade, particularly over selling Irish guns to Italian buyers. During the brokering of that deal, the Irish attacked the Chinese, and the Chinese in turn kidnapped some of the Sons. Those were the decisions of Lin's elder relative (uncle? father?), Mr. Wu. I think Wu was killed, but I don't recall by whom.

 

Anyway, Lin said at the beginning of this season that he didn't agree with how his uncle did things. I'm not even sure who Lin believes killed Mr. Wu, and if he has reason to believe it was the Sons. But now that I'm thinking about it, Jax didn't really have a reason to believe Lin's peaceful talk, either. After all, Lin still didn't get what his organization wanted: majority control over the regional gun trade.

Edited October 29, 2014 by La Tortuga

[Snookums]

No one appears to be asking WHY Lin might have wanted to kill Tara.   Sure, the gangs/clubs are always jockeying for position in the gun and drug trades.  Sure, there are egos involved.  But no one has said clearly why Lin would have been super pissed off enough to kill Jax's wife out of the blue.

 

 

This has driven me nuts from the start of this misbegotten arc. WHY would a triad leader, firm in his position, commit such a brutal, misguided act? He would have to know it would only result in his entire business blowing up in a gang war! Jax KNOWS this. I guess I'm supposed to buy he's so grief stricken and numb that he would buy any story out there but this only highlights what an utter moron he is. I truly thought Sutter was kidding when Gemma first broke out the idea that she saw [random guy she was seen talking to three minutes ago] coming out of Jax's house, blah blah blah. That NO ONE in the gang--not Chibs, not Bobby, not Happy, men who have been around this life for decades--questioned this for one second was Dada-esque in its absurdity. 

[leisawoo]

Thanks so much LaTortuga. I thought all that happened. Jury did mention JT writing in or an actual book. Does Jax have access to it or was that really the letters?

[Artsda]

Thanks so much LaTortuga. I thought all that happened. Jury did mention JT writing in or an actual book. Does Jax have access to it or was that really the letters?

Jax has that too, it's the manuscript "The Life and Death of Sam Crow" that Piney gave Jax back in season 1. 

[La Tortuga]

Thanks so much LaTortuga. I thought all that happened. Jury did mention JT writing in or an actual book. Does Jax have access to it or was that really the letters?

 

I think Jury was referring to John Teller's journal/manifesto, which Jax started reading when he first found it back in the first season (maybe the pilot?). During the commercials they showed a flashback to Jax asking Gemma about the things his father wrote and thought.

 

I like that Jury brought the book up now. I think Jax might need to go reread the damn thing, just so he can see how far he's fallen.

[Quando]

I think you missed an example of "Casual racism! 'Cause it's edgy." Right after Unser and the Sheriff talk to Juice, Unser tells the Sheriff that the plan for Juice must be, "kill the chink, get back your cut".

Edited October 29, 2014 by Quando

[monakane]

Did anyone notice the look that Chibs gave Jax when they were talking?  It was very fleeting, but I swear his face registered disgust.  Am I projecting??

[Febgirl]

I did.   Also, the weird look on Tig's face as they were leaving the kids' room.

 

[monakane]

I did.   Also, the weird look on Tig's face as they were leaving the kids' room.

 

Maybe the club will get together and vote for Mr. Mayhem to visit Jax leaving Gemma devastated that her lies killed her son.

[Febgirl]

Maybe the club will get together and vote for Mr. Mayhem to visit Jax leaving Gemma devastated that her lies killed her son.

Ooh. I'd be into that. I think that Gemma living with her multitude of sins, alone would be much more satisfying.

 I feel at this point, the older members, Tig and Chibs, are (finally) losing faith in their fearless leader.  Rat still has something to prove, so he's going to tow the line.  Even Happy seems a bit concerned.

[leisawoo]

I think maybe they should let Happy take over. Was Moses intimating that he knew Bobby had served in the military or did I misunderstand?

Edited October 29, 2014 by leisawoo

[terrymct]

I think maybe they should let Happy take over. Was Moses intimating that he knew Bobby had served in the military or did I misunderstand?

 

He wasn't intimating, he just plain said that he knew Bobby served and listed the general details of it.   Ten years in the National Guard after regular service, iirc.

[La Tortuga]

In trying to figure out why somebody feels it necessary, in every single episode, to insist that the club has Jax's back (other than because Sutter has a lot of air time to fill with pointless, repetitive dialogue), I've decided there are likely two main reasons:

1. Everyone who says this is in denial. They can see that their numbers are dwindling, their property is under attack, they're having to scramble to keep their businesses going (because, again, they're under attack), their families are in danger, they are having to kill so often that their regular body dump is getting crowded, etc. These are all terrible signs. Nobody wants to believe that all the hard work and maneuvering they've been throwing themselves into is going to end badly. These guys certainly don't want to believe Jax is the problem, especially since they helped put him in power in the first place. So they don't air their grievances at all, and they just get sucked into political groupthink rather than consider alternatives.
2. Those who declare their support directly to Jax in conversation are aware that he needs someone to hold his hand if he's going to make it to the finish line. He always has; he's no good unless he perceives support from the only people he has any respect for. He cannot take criticism at all (evidence: every time Tara told him something he was doing wasn't good, he'd give her shit for it).

 

I think this groupthink is also why you never see the guys voting on anything anymore. There is no longer a point to voting, because everyone is just going to go along with whatever Jax says anyway and construct their movements around whatever Jax wants to do. Voting "yea" is functionally the same as saying "we've got your back," so why do it twice? In quietly transforming their democracy into a monarchy, the rest of the guys have surrendered their voices. Not considering opposing viewpoints is bad for Jax and bad for the club as a whole, but of course Jax doesn't see it that way.

[leisawoo]

Thanks! The sound is awful on my tv for some shows. I thought Moses was relating his own experience at first, the, it seemed like he was drawing parallels between Bobby and himself. Thanks for the clarification. LOVED Bobby's line to Moses about not being a soldier, just a thug.

[leisawoo]

YES LaTortuga! I wholeheartedly agree. By surrendering their voices, they have also numbered their days, I fear. Perhaps mutiny will figure in at some point. I get how they loooooove Jackie boy more than themselves but have they also surrendered their SURVIVAL INSTINCTS?! I mean, Tyler, who SEEMS like a pushover is already beside himself and squirming so much. Any chance Tyler comes out a winner? If he is smart, he better fix things with Marks, the smartest, only person with NO vulnerabilities in Charming. Forgive my tiredness but who was driving the truck that hit one of the cl-ugh-b? Was it the junkie's son or one of Tyler's guys?

[Febgirl]

The junkie's son. Pantyhose preacher's stepson.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Febgirl

[leisawoo]

Thought so. Thanks. Hmmmmm that should be a very interesting development. And, please, Sutter, for all our loyalties to the show, let it be an actual development.

[daughtersofanarchy]

Yes, La Tortuga, at this point Jax does seem like the bellwether leading his guys to the slaughter.  They all seem so very tired.

 

As are we all.  The show seems like it died, doesn't it?  The show I've loved for so many years is now a corpse.

 

Even if Sutter pulls one of those magical bunnies out of his magician's hat, as he has with all the other plotlines when things seemed hopeless and impossible, will it work this time?

 

Not for me.  I just don't see how it's possible.  No matter what semi-okay ending might get tacked onto this bubbling, toxic blob of suck, it could never revitalize this deadness.

 

Even Chigger Woods can't accommodate any more stiffs.

[HisSassyKitten]

Fave moment: Bobby 'n Security Chief's "twinky dinky heart to heart". Bobby ROCKED every response. to whomever asked what part they cut off, the evil jerk that gives me chills said, "I know how important it is for bros to ride, I'd hate to see you lose that clutch hand."

 

 

I know right!  When they revealed Bobby's eye last week, I was screaming, NOOOOOOOOOO!  But something you said made me shake my head and remember how much the show pulls us in and forget they're all "evil jerks".  I guess until the bitter end, they're all "our" evil jerks. 

 

Please Sutter, please let Nero come out unscathed at the end, along with Wendy and the kids.  But somehow, I don't think that's what Sutter's creative/diabolical mind has in store for us.

[monakane]

 

Not for me.  I just don't see how it's possible.  No matter what semi-okay ending might get tacked onto this bubbling, toxic blob of suck, it could never revitalize this deadness

 

This season seems like filler.  I can't imagine sitting through another 5 episodes of this crap.  I've been with the show from the beginning, so I'll stay with it to see how it ends, but it's a chore.

 

I can't help but contrast SOA to Boardwalk Empire which didn't get enough time to complete its story.  Unlike SOA, I didn't want the BE story to be over.

[Disraeli Ears]

So if Juice names Gemma as Tara's killer, will he admit he killed Roosevelt to give his story credibility? Juice is pretty much done for, I think, so why not go to prison in a comfy Administrative Segregation cell?

[leisawoo]

I know right!  When they revealed Bobby's eye last week, I was screaming, NOOOOOOOOOO!  But something you said made me shake my head and remember how much the show pulls us in and forget they're all "evil jerks".  I guess until the bitter end, they're all "our" evil jerks. 

 

Please Sutter, please let Nero come out unscathed at the end, along with Wendy and the kids.  But somehow, I don't think that's what Sutter's creative/diabolical mind has in store for us.

Yes, yes, yes. They're kinda " good, evil jerks". Well, they were. I used to root for Jax and, so help me, I thought he was smart till this season. RIP any shred of Jax's intelligence. Am I crazy or is his grief over Tara now just a blazing revenge fire? I get how busy he is, what with starting shit with anyone and everyone, but damn. Take a moment to reflect? The girl WASTED her life on you-granted cuz of her all encompassing love. I sure as hell wouldn't have put up with YOUR shit, Jax. No matter how ripped ya are. I think the "grieving" I feel now IS for the original members. They have probably NEVER seen shit get THIS bad. They've dedicated their lives to the club and Jax is burning everything to the ground. He is what my mom used to say. He's not really proactive, he's reactive. If you're reactive, it's harder to gain control. Clay was proactive. Dammit, I HATED Clay. Only Jax's dumbass could expose Clays redeeming qualities after he killed him.

Do I need to take this question to another thread? I try to catch up on old posts but there are so many, lol! Do you think Sutter fancies himself as Jax, when he writes the story? Is he living out some kind of fantasy? If this is the wrong place or there's another thread: redirection is appreciated.

I also think Unser's shock at the new sheriff's putting Juice in with a word to the DOC is complete and utter BS. YOU're surprised she would do that? Bitch, please. You ain't ever been on the up and up, lawman Unser.

[Puddy]

Decider - Thanks for that correction!!  I just read an article about the remaining number of episodes and I am glad this will drag out a bit longer!  Snerk.

 

Madding Crowd - In defense of the little psycho ~~ I was a pretty outspoken little kid.  I was not even in kindergarten and I scolded my grandfather for yelling at my grandmother.  I told him to "go back in the garage where you belong" and guess what?  He did.

 

Kids are not stupid.  They can boil shit down pretty fast.  I am now wondering how Gemma is going to explain it when Abel lets loose with another "gem". 

 

 

I was a little shocked at Nero's inclusion of Wendy in his future Farmer Pete plans.  He will look like a total hottie in his cardigan while driving his low riding tractor.  Mama.

 

I am betting that Gemma killed her own birds and that stuffed animal.  No one was home and she could have stopped at home after the trip back from the cabin, before going to the school to pick up Psycho Killer.  She had time to think (possible) things through on the drive.  The babysitter was gone with the baby, so the coast was clear.

 

DakotaLavender - They are chopping Bobby up because Jax thought the deal was negotiable.  They want the mother and son and are not willing to accept anything less. 

 

Bobbie should not have said 'Suck my big, white dick'.  He should have said, 'Suck my little, white dick'.  It would have played much, much better.

 

leisawoo - Abel wanted to go to his room and they kept him out.  I am sure that helped with his budding psychosis.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Puddy

[leisawoo]

WOULD even Gemma hurt Abel to keep him quiet?!?! Maybe just maybe. I don't know if Sutter would go THAT dark but.... I'm sure if she does, it will be an accident. Yanno, Gemma's REALLY accident-prone.

[Gudzilla]

So Jury was married to Patty the daytime hooker and his VP is Datak Tarr.

 

Thanks to Abel for doing what no one else can, shutting Gemma up.

 

Maybe if Bobby wouldn't of slept with Otto's wife he wouldn't be where he is now.

[leisawoo]

Ok, now I gotta ask what you mean about Bobby and Otto, Gudzilla. Not arguing by any means. I vaguely remember Bobby doing that and Otto being mad but I don't think I remember enough to fully enjoy and ponder your remark.

[Puddy]

leisawoo - I have to say, Gemma "hurting" Abel crossed my mind immediately when I saw him listening to her confession to Thomas.  I thought, "Oh, you poor little kid.  Your grandma is going to kill you but she will tell you that you will be with your mom, so it's all good".

 

If she killed Tara, killed her birds and killed that stuffed animal, is killing her grandson really that far out there?  Her survival is paramount.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Puddy

[Gudzilla]

 

Ok, now I gotta ask what you mean about Bobby and Otto, Gudzilla. Not arguing by any means. I vaguely remember Bobby doing that and Otto being mad but I don't think I remember enough to fully enjoy and ponder your remark.

 

If I remember correctly (not always the case) it went something like,

Bobby sleeps with Otto's wife

Otto's wife is killed by Tom Arnold

Bobby tells Otto the club killed Tom Arnold

The club needs Tom Arnold for some reason so they don't kill him.....yet

That weird biker ADA Potter informs Otto that Tom Arnold is still alive and that Bobby's DNA was found on his wife's underwear when she was found dead.

This leads to Otto testifying in the RICO case, then to him getting his testimony invalidated by stabbing the nurse with the crucifix that Tara brought him.

Which leads to Tara's charges and subsequent tailspin, and death.

Which leads to the current revenge scenario and Bobby's present predicament. 

 

At least this is how I remember it, Bobby's penis* started it all.

 

* I can't believe I just typed that.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Gudzilla

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So...basic question.  What happens when a power vacuum is created in a given territory?  

 

There is nothing left of Lin's organization, at least on the outside.  Would not the Mayans and Marks and whomever be having at it right this second?   Who is providing the drugs to the junkies?  Who is "patrolling" the area to assert command?  Would these things not be the highest priority to these organizations who have designs on Lin's territory?  I'm sure there would be some Asian interests from say, San Fran who would be moving in, as well.

 

The point is that SAMCRO would be a very low priority.  They are no threat to NorCal areas.  The true war would be playing out there.  The Irish?  They sure as hell would not be worrying about what Jax wanted.  They'd be treading water as ducks with feet flailing like crazy trying to navigate it all.

 

Sutter likes to think we can all just accept his giant vacuum of an outline.  Of course, many if not all of us, recognize sucking when we see it.

[Ohwell]

When Bobby told the security guy to "suck my big white dick" I said nooooo Bobby!  That's what they're gonna cut off!  He was lucky that they just cut off his fingers.

 

I'm sick of looking at Juice and his tortured self.  Will somebody get him off my screen?  It's gotten so bad, I'd rather look at Unser now.

[Maximona]

Sons of Anarchy is now the most hilarious show on TV.

 

Even Modern Family is only a distant second.

[leighdear]

I was a little shocked at Nero's inclusion of Wendy in his future Farmer Pete plans.  He will look like a total hottie in his cardigan while driving his low riding tractor.  Mama.

 

OMG, that made me SERIOUSLY laugh.....

 

And still.....

Jax: "I love you, Filip"

Chibs" "I love you too, Jackson"

Me: *sob*

[leisawoo]

Thank you so much Gudzilla! Really had a ball on this board today. Love ALL of the comments and theories! Why can't the world get along like our forum, lol.

[Bandolero]

I could be wrong but I thought what Jury meant was that JT knew that his bike had been tampered with but went along with the plan (hence the suicide) instead of trying to save himself. So the whole Clay and Gemma killing JT is still in play but JT knew about it and did nothing to try to save himself.

 

I still don't get how these grown ass biker dudes just follow Jax like mindless idiots. Really... nobody questions Jax at all? Ever??? Pretty astounding.

 

Jax is a piece of work... he lies to Jury and kills his son yet now has the nerve to be outraged. 

 

I feel nothing for Bobby losing his body parts. The sons have committed so many atrocities... they deserve everything that is coming to them. They can kill Bobby for all I care. Juice needs to go too.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Bandolero

[Puddy]

leisawoo - Why can't Charming get along like our forum?

 

leighdear - Thanks!!  I do what I can.  Sometimes, it works.  Mama.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Puddy