Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[ZoloftBlob]

As a 13 year old I saw a parent being hauled away on a stretcher after a suicide attempt and sat vigil and talked him out of it another time.  My sisters and I have not considered the attempt as being abusive

 

I am glad for you, I sincerely mean that. But a) I would still consider that emotionally abusive of your father because you were a child and that's a pretty awful thing to expect of a child and b) that you don't find it abusive doesn't mean that Bethenny is wrong to feel her mother was emotionally abusive.

[WireWrap]

I do consider Bethenny's mom a victim of her partner's domestic abuse. I do not consider Bethenny one of her abusers - that would be her husband. If she was so mentally ill, she was unable to care for her child who was what 11-13? at the time her alcoholism and suicidal tendencies caused her commitment. Bethenny was a child who could not simply walk way. I have sympathy for Bethenny's mom in that she was mentally ill but it doesn't change the fact that she was emotionally abusive to her child in her actions. "I was mentally ill" is a factor for mercy, I agree, but as a parent you're still on the hook if your personal brand of crazy harms your child. To use a not RHONY example - I think Andrea Yates was clearly and demonstrably mentally ill when she drowned her five kids in the tub. I feel sorry for her. But that doesn't make her kids any less dead and it doesn't mean she didn't harm them.

 

That Bethenny might be forgiving her stepdad might in part be due to how he is at least willing to pay lip service to the idea he wasn't great dad. Or it could be a put on.

 

You didn't respond to what I asked earlier. Are you saying if women who are struck in domestic violence situations don't call the police that they aren't being abused? Because again, its actually sadly quite common for the police to not be called.

No, I never said that nor did I imply that. IMO, there are may factors that come into play during domestic violence that can cause a woman to not report it or even return to the abuser after they get out. My comment was about Bethenny only, that she, as a 19 year old, did not report her step father or say that she cause him to beat her but places blame on her mother for the abuse her mother received from him. She does for herself what she refuses to allow her mother to do, which is blame the abuser, not the victim.

 

Mental illness is not an excuse but it is an explanation that in her right mind, she would not do these things. There is a difference IMO and not acknowledging this difference is cruel and self serving. The difference between what Yates did to her children to what Bethenny's mom did to her is not comparable in the least. Bethenny has never made the accusation that her mother ever did anything to physically harm her, ever, only to herself.

[Crikey]

I'm so sorry you had to cope with that. *hugs*

 

Thank you.

It was many moons ago and I did the work to deal with it and then let it go.  

Life is good!

[ZoloftBlob]

Bethenny has never made the accusation that her mother ever did anything to physically harm her, ever, only to herself.

 

You keep harping on physical abuse. I have been pretty clear that I think this was emotional abuse. Witnessing your mom try to commit suicide and actively be an alcoholic is abuse. Kids witnessing their parents - mom and dad - doing terrible things to each other, to themselves, and engaging in substance abuse end up damaged. If Bethenny's family *wasn't* wealthy, the "mom attempting suicide while drunk and ending up committed" would likely have landed her in foster care.

 

The reason I felt you were implying it's not abuse is because you didn't include any qualifiers, you said "First, Bethenny was 19 when her step father beat her, old enough to press charges if she wanted but there is no mention of her doing it and that abuse is on him, not her mother" - which, forgive me, very strongly implies Bethenny was in the wrong to not report the abuse. You're right, there's many reasons why the victims of domestic violence don't report. Bethenny witnessing her step dad hit her mom is actually a form of abuse and likely what let her to not call the police. You might want to reword it.

 

If you knew the whole story about Andrea Yates, you'd know that her husband was as much, if not more, at fault for that tragedy.

 

Oh I know full well her husband shares the blame for allowing it. But her being post partum depressed  doesn't make her kids any less dead, just like Bethenny's mom being troubled enough to need inpatient mental health care doesn't make what she did in front of Bethenny any less traumatizing.

[ZoloftBlob]

Trust me, no, they aren't. I tried the margarita stuff a few weeks ago.... not terrible tasting but like, it tore the skin off the inside of my mouth.

[WireWrap]

You keep harping on physical abuse. I have been pretty clear that I think this was emotional abuse. Witnessing your mom try to commit suicide and actively be an alcoholic is abuse. Kids witnessing their parents - mom and dad - doing terrible things to each other, to themselves, and engaging in substance abuse end up damaged. If Bethenny's family *wasn't* wealthy, the "mom attempting suicide while drunk and ending up committed" would likely have landed her in foster care.

 

The reason I felt you were implying it's not abuse is because you didn't include any qualifiers, you said "First, Bethenny was 19 when her step father beat her, old enough to press charges if she wanted but there is no mention of her doing it and that abuse is on him, not her mother" - which, forgive me, very strongly implies Bethenny was in the wrong to not report the abuse. You're right, there's many reasons why the victims of domestic violence don't report. Bethenny witnessing her step dad hit her mom is actually a form of abuse and likely what let her to not call the police. You might want to reword it.

 

Oh I know full well her husband shares the blame for allowing it. But her being post partum depressed  doesn't make her kids any less dead, just like Bethenny's mom being troubled enough to need inpatient mental health care doesn't make what she did in front of Bethenny any less traumatizing.

Clearly we see things differently and will never come to a middle ground. You believe what Bethenny claims, I do not. It is a simple as that. I find her behavior more akin to a narcissists than to a victim. You find her a victim. Agree to disagree 

[ZoloftBlob]

Please don't make blanket statements about what I believe. I have no problem agreeing to disagree but you don't get to say what I believe.

[Almost 3000]

I need a skinny girl cocktail. Are any of them any good?

Not really.

The original Margarita loses something bottled.

But her recipe is good:

2oz premium clear tequila

1/2 juice of lime

splash Bols triple sec

pour over crushed ice

variations 1) add splash of club soda for lighter 2) bit of agave for sweeter

Edited May 24, 2015 by Almost 3000

[WireWrap]

Please don't make blanket statements about what I believe. I have no problem agreeing to disagree but you don't get to say what I believe.

Wait, haven't you been saying you believe what Bethenny has said about being a victim of childhood abuse or were we talking about 2 different HWs?

[breezy424]

Whoa...when did Beth say that her step father beat her?  The only thing I heard Beth say was first, to her friend that when she went with her mother to the apartment, he attacked her.  She didn't say he he beat her.  She didn't even say he hit her.  Attacked could mean a number of things.  Then later when she was talking to him, she said he went a bit crazy when she went to the apartment with her mom.  Again, 'beating' was never said.  This is all I know unless she said something at a different time.

 

I also gathered from the conversation with her step dad that her mother was institutionalized for a long period of time because she talked about only him visiting her at school.  If this were the case, her mother had serious mental issues.  Add to that she was apparently physically abused by both husbands.

 

One can understand how a child could feel abused and blame a parent for actions such as alcoholism, suicide or having them be witness to abuse.  As an adult, one can start to understand that there was more to the story.  An adult can start to understand that the parent had a mental illness as well as being a victim.  To me, Beth doesn't want to come to terms with these things because she would have to let go of her own anger and resentment.  And this anger, resentment, and victimization is how Beth justifies her own behavior.  She doesn't want to let it go - even her stepfather said something to this effect.

 

In another part of her blog, she states:  Some of the stuff I have experienced in the past few years is much worse than my past.  She went to court to get sole custody of her child.  Does anyone think that she would hold back stuff in her testimony?  And then agree to shared custody if something was going on that home that remotely like the childhood she has presented?  I don't think so. 

 

And if Beth's traumas are as serious as she says, why is discussing them freely on tv.  If this hurt is so deep, why is she talking about it so much instead of getting the help she needs.  There's motive there.  She does it because it's the story she wears.

[MatildaMoody]

No, I never said that nor did I imply that. IMO, there are may factors that come into play during domestic violence that can cause a woman to not report it or even return to the abuser after they get out. My comment was about Bethenny only, that she, as a 19 year old, did not report her step father or say that she cause him to beat her but places blame on her mother for the abuse her mother received from him. She does for herself what she refuses to allow her mother to do, which is blame the abuser, not the victim.

 

I missed the part where Bethenny placed the blame on her mother for being abused. Her not reporting her stepfather makes tons of sense to me (It's rare for anyone to report abuse, especially if it is the first time it happened, or it only happened a handful of times). Her not forgiving her mother for being uncaring towards her makes perfect sense to me. Her not wanting to forgive her mother for the negligence (even if it was due to mental illness) makes sense to me. But, I have never heard anything about her blaming her mother for being abused. That would make absolutely no sense to me. When did she blame her mom for being an abuse victim?

 

My understanding has always been that Bethenny does not believe her mother has been an actual mother to her. From the neglect, to the abusive environment, to the denial of the abusive environment, I have understood where Bethenny was coming from even if I think that she should have gotten help for it long ago. But, I have never heard, nor could I ever understand her blaming her mother for the fact that her mother was abused. I am not being snarky, I really want to know when that happened.

 

ETA: For me, Bethenny has always come across as someone who is prone to hyperbole, but not a liar. I never thought that she was making up anything that she has said on TV. I always just took what she said as something that was coming from her perspective of the events at the time. So, it is shocking to me that she would be accused of blaming her mother for being an abuse victim, because I have never seen that or even gleaned that from anything that Bethenny has said about her past.

 

She resents her mother. Plenty of people do. But, she also has very valid reasons for doing so even if you discount the hyperbole. I feel like Bethenny could easily be any one of Kim Richards's kids. The only difference is she doesn't default to "but, she is the greatest mom and I love her so much." the way Kim's kids tend to do when questioned.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[BeachyMum]

IMO, success has not made Bethenny a more likable person.  B is older than me and I am shocked at her age and this stage in her life she is still focusing on her past.  She has a child now and she should focus on that.  

[ZoloftBlob]

Clearly we see things differently and will never come to a middle ground. You believe what Bethenny claims, I do not.

 

Is a blanket statement. I believe Bethenny was emotionally abused by her parents. Because you've continually harped on *physical abuse* in this discussion, I am not comfortable with you stating that I agree with Bethenny's claims when you are insisting that Bethenny is lying about physical abuse and I am stating I believe she was emotionally abused. You don't get to say what I believe and then declare the discussion done since you're agreeing to disagree. I agree we're not going to see eye to eye, but since I have been clear that I think it was emotional abuse and not necessarily physical, you don't get to make a blanket that I believe everything Bethenny claims when I have not said that at all. 

[BeachyMum]

You can't move forward unless you let go of the past.  She has addressed this situation for the past 7 years on television and I think we got the picture, now. 

[WireWrap]

Whoa...when did Beth say that her step father beat her?  The only thing I heard Beth say was first, to her friend that when she went with her mother to the apartment, he attacked her.  She didn't say he he beat her.  She didn't even say he hit her.  Attacked could mean a number of things.  Then later when she was talking to him, she said he went a bit crazy when she went to the apartment with her mom.  Again, 'beating' was never said.  This is all I know unless she said something at a different time.

 

I also gathered from the conversation with her step dad that her mother was institutionalized for a long period of time because she talked about only him visiting her at school.  If this were the case, her mother had serious mental issues.  Add to that she was apparently physically abused by both husbands.

 

One can understand how a child could feel abused and blame a parent for actions such as alcoholism, suicide or having them be witness to abuse.  As an adult, one can start to understand that there was more to the story.  An adult can start to understand that the parent had a mental illness as well as being a victim.  To me, Beth doesn't want to come to terms with these things because she would have to let go of her own anger and resentment.  And this anger, resentment, and victimization is how Beth justifies her own behavior.  She doesn't want to let it go - even her stepfather said something to this effect.

 

In another part of her blog, she states:  Some of the stuff I have experienced in the past few years is much worse than my past.  She went to court to get sole custody of her child.  Does anyone think that she would hold back stuff in her testimony?  And then agree to shared custody if something was going on that home that remotely like the childhood she has presented?  I don't think so. 

 

And if Beth's traumas are as serious as she says, why is discussing them freely on tv.  If this hurt is so deep, why is she talking about it so much instead of getting the help she needs.  There's motive there.  She does it because it's the story she wears.

Bethenny said to her stepfather that he beat her mother that day then turned and "attacked" her as well. I took that to mean he hit her.

 

I missed the part where Bethenny placed the blame on her mother for being abused. Her not reporting her stepfather makes tons of sense to me. Her not forgiving her mother for being uncaring towards her makes perfect sense to me. Her not wanting to forgive her mother for the negligence (even if it was due to mental illness) makes sense to me. But, I have never heard anything about her blaming her mother for being abused. That would make absolutely no sense to me. When did she blame her mom for being an abuse victim?

 

My understanding has always been that Bethenny does not believe her mother has been an actual mother to her. From the neglect, to the abusive environment, to the denial of the abusive environment, I have understood where Bethenny was coming from even if I think that she should have gotten help for it long ago. But, I have never heard, nor could I ever understand her blaming her mother for the fact that her mother was abused. I am not being snarky, I really want to know when that happened.

Does forgiving the man that beat your mother but not forgiving her make sense? IMO, it does not.

Is a blanket statement. I believe Bethenny was emotionally abused by her parents. Because you've continually harped on *physical abuse* in this discussion, I am not comfortable with you stating that I agree with Bethenny's claims when you are insisting that Bethenny is lying about physical abuse and I am stating I believe she was emotionally abused. You don't get to say what I believe and then declare the discussion done since you're agreeing to disagree. I agree we're not going to see eye to eye, but since I have been clear that I think it was emotional abuse and not necessarily physical, you don't get to make a blanket that I believe everything Bethenny claims when I have not said that at all. 

My comment pertained to what we discussed, both sides. It was a generalization, not a blanket statement.

[MatildaMoody]

 

Does forgiving the man that beat your mother but not forgiving her make sense? IMO, it does not.

 

If the mother in question denies that it ever happened and calls you a liar and the stepfather in question acknowledges that your recantation of your childhood did actually happen and offers an apology for it, yes. In my opinion, it makes perfect sense.

 

ETA: It makes sense to me because at least Bethenny's stepfather was willing to say on the record that Bethenny did witness horrible things as a child. Bethenny's mother was only willing to call her daughter a liar, again, on the record. If I felt that I were being gaslighted about my childhood by the one person who is supposed to love me and protect me ("mother is the name for God on the lips of all children"), I would have a hard time forgiving them for anything that happened both during my childhood and since my adulthood.

Edited May 24, 2015 by MatildaMoody

[WireWrap]

If the mother in question denies that it ever happened and calls you a liar and the stepfather in question acknowledges that your recantation of your childhood did actually happen and offers an apology for it, yes. In my opinion, it makes perfect sense.

I am not sure what all her mother denied other than Bethenny's claims of neglect and them never celebrating her birthday. Her mother showed photos of a few bd parties for Bethenny so in that, Bethenny was the liar. Also, not many people her age admit to mental health problems, especially when they were involuntarily committed. My late mother in-law refused to admit to any mental health problems or to the 2 times she was committed against her will. 

In any case, I would not let the man who beat my mother have the privilege of meeting my child.

^^^^This^^^^^. She has no idea if he is still an alcoholic/addict/abuser because she has not seen him for over 20 years.

[MatildaMoody]

I am not sure what all her mother denied other than Bethenny's claims of neglect and them never celebrating her birthday. Her mother showed photos of a few bd parties for Bethenny so in that, Bethenny was the liar. Also, not many people her age admit to mental health problems, especially when they were involuntarily committed. My late mother in-law refused to admit to any mental health problems or to the 2 times she was committed against her will. 

I only recall Bethenny ever saying that she (Bethenny) didn't like to celebrate her birthday. I don't remember her ever saying that she never had birthday parties. I remember her saying that a large part of the reason for hating her birthday had to do with the fact that she and her mother shared the same birthday. I always assumed that her mother made Bethenny's birthdays about her (the mother). I could be totally mistaken in that assumption though. But, my recollection was that Bethenny hated her birthday and didn't celebrate it, not that she never had birthday parties.

[WireWrap]

I only recall Bethenny ever saying that she (Bethenny) didn't like to celebrate her birthday. I don't remember her ever saying that she never had birthday parties. I remember her saying that a large part of the reason for hating her birthday had to do with the fact that she and her mother shared the same birthday. I always assumed that her mother made Bethenny's birthdays about her (the mother). I could be totally mistaken in that assumption though. But, my recollection was that Bethenny hated her birthday and didn't celebrate it, not that she never had birthday parties.

I am not sure now if she made that statement on the show or in an interview but she did make it and her mother produced photos to the contrary. She did tell Jason that she hated birthday parties though and then threw herself 1 while filming and I am not referring to the party we saw a few episodes ago but the big one off limits to the film crew. LOL 

[MatildaMoody]

I am not sure now if she made that statement on the show or in an interview but she did make it and her mother produced photos to the contrary. She did tell Jason that she hated birthday parties though and then threw herself 1 while filming and I am not referring to the party we saw a few episodes ago but the big one off limits to the film crew. LOL 

 

I've only seen and read that she hated her birthday and didn't like celebrating it. So, I will happily agree to disagree. But, I also think that if she were able to throw herself an off camera birthday party and enjoy it, that is a good sign that she is moving on and actually enjoying her life, even if BRAVO doesn't think it suits her TV narrative.

[breezy424]

Bethenny said to her stepfather that he beat her mother that day then turned and "attacked" her as well. I took that to mean he hit her.

 

Does forgiving the man that beat your mother but not forgiving her make sense? IMO, it does not.

My comment pertained to what we discussed, both sides. It was a generalization, not a blanket statement.

 

She said that he got physical.  And that he attacked her.  That can mean a number of things.  Sure that could mean he hit her or it could mean that he pushed her.  My point is that she never said he 'beat' her.  This is just another example of how Beth portrays things in a way to let who she is telling imagine the worst.  She says her mother tried to commit suicide in the kitchen.  What did she do?  Slit her wrists with a kitchen knife?  Threaten to take pills?  Or her stepfather 'attacked' her.  Did he hit her?  Did he punch her?  It's all about the drama.  She doesn't say, "My mother slit her wrists in front of me in the kitchen."  She doesn't say my stepfather, "Punched and threw me to the floor."  She leaves it up to the imagination.  I find it very interesting and telling about Beth.

 

I totally agree with you about her being able to forgive the man who supposedly beat up her mother but not her mother.  But after watching her for a number of years, I'm beginning to understand why.  She 'needs' to blame someone. 

 

I also thought it interesting that she said something to her friend about it getting physical toward the end with her mother and stepfather.  It would seem to indicate that her childhood wasn't always horrible. 

Edited May 24, 2015 by breezy424

[Celia Rubenstein]

Does forgiving the man that beat your mother but not forgiving her make sense? IMO, it does not.

 

If the mother in question denies that it ever happened and calls you a liar and the stepfather in question acknowledges that your recantation of your childhood did actually happen and offers an apology for it, yes. In my opinion, it makes perfect sense.

 

I agree.  Plus I think there are a lot more issues from the past for Bethenny and Bernadette to deal with as compared to how many issues Bethenny may have had with John.  Their mother-daughter relationship is much more complicated, much more damaged, and will take much more work to repair.  

 

I also think that if she were able to throw herself an off camera birthday party and enjoy it, that is a good sign that she is moving on and actually enjoying her life, even if BRAVO doesn't think it suits her TV narrative.

 

 

I am so glad you pointed this out, MatildaMoody.

 

The fact that the REAL PARTY was not a part of the show is proof that Bravo has a script for Bethenny Frankel the character and showing her happy among friends having a good time is not the Bethenny they want to showcase.  They would rather give us "Bethenny bitches in therapy" and "Bethenny bawls in a limo" and "Bethenny at the beach with the stepdad."  This is the Bethenny Andy Cohen thinks the audience wants.  I don't think it's who she really is.  Or at least it is not nearly as prominent a feature of who she is as Bravo would have us believe. And so many people are buying into this portrayal of her as this one dimensional person without hesitation.  But no one is that one dimensional in real life.  No one. 

 

On another note, the fact that Bethenny was able to throw herself a nice party, albeit off camera, shows that she does have friends despite what is so often said about her here. I'm always surprised to read posts here suggesting that just because some poster has not seen evidence of a given housewife's (fill in the blank) on screen, it must be totally absent from her life.  WIth Bethenny, it was "I don't see friends so she must not have any."  Hopefully people will realize that Bravo is showing us what they want to show us, not necessarily the reality of the situation, and that line can be put to rest.   

[Rhetorica]

If some man came in and beat my mother when I was 12, I would have been gleeful! But of course I would have paid for it later in yet another ambulance ride to the hospital from one of her suicide attempts. But I disengaged as soon as I could, at 16. Yeah, it took therapy to help me get over it, but I wanted over it. I'm not sure Beth does. She has to make a decision about, as I said earlier, being a victim or a victor. Especially for her daughter's sake.

[ryebread]

Whoa...when did Beth say that her step father beat her?  The only thing I heard Beth say was first, to her friend that when she went with her mother to the apartment, he attacked her.  She didn't say he he beat her.  She didn't even say he hit her.  Attacked could mean a number of things.  Then later when she was talking to him, she said he went a bit crazy when she went to the apartment with her mom.  Again, 'beating' was never said.  This is all I know unless she said something at a different time.

 

 

She said that he got physical.  And that he attacked her.  That can mean a number of things.  Sure that could mean he hit her or it could mean that he pushed her.  My point is that she never said he 'beat' her.  This is just another example of how Beth portrays things in a way to let who she is telling imagine the worst. 

 

My father attacked me because I tried to defend the little brother that he was abusing. 

 

Now here's what really happened.  My 16 yo brother took my dad's car without permission. Because of this, my dad missed his flight. He was not quite yelling but was standing over my seated brother while calling him irresponsible and selfish.  My snotty 17 yo self decided that would be a good time to open my yap to tell my dad he never let us take the car and it was unfair and wah, wah, wah.  He grabbed me by the arm, made me sit down and then proceeded to ground me, too. 

 

If John Parisella really physically attacked Bethenny, that is a terrible thing.  If Bethenny opened her yap in the midst of an emotional moving-out day scenario (which I can totally imagine her doing) and John told her to shut it in no uncertain terms, that's a totally different thing.  But yeah, I think Bethenny likes to 'augment' things to fit her narrative.

[Leroux]

I only recall Bethenny ever saying that she (Bethenny) didn't like to celebrate her birthday. I don't remember her ever saying that she never had birthday parties. I remember her saying that a large part of the reason for hating her birthday had to do with the fact that she and her mother shared the same birthday. I always assumed that her mother made Bethenny's birthdays about her (the mother). I could be totally mistaken in that assumption though. But, my recollection was that Bethenny hated her birthday and didn't celebrate it, not that she never had birthday parties.

You are 100% right in your recollection.

Bethenny does celebrate her birthday, she just hates the over the top celebrations with the pompous affair that remind her of her mother. She has no problem with intimate celebrations with people she feels comfortable around.

Bethenny begged Jason to have a small celebration with her friends for her 40 birthday, Jason completely overlooked all that and planned the celebration he wanted so Bethenny lost it, the next year Bethenny, Jason and her assistants went to Mexico and had a small birthday party for her and Bethenny was very happy and said this was the kind of birthday celebrations she enjoyed the most.

Throughout many seasons of reality TV Bethenny has been constant in the fact that she doesn't like big gatherings, big celebrations with people she doesn't know, she just doesn't enjoy being around people she doesn't know and prefers small gatherings with her friends.

[LotusFlower]

I'm always surprised to read posts here suggesting that just because some poster has not seen evidence of a given housewife's (fill in the blank) on screen, it must be totally absent from her life. With Bethenny, it was "I don't see friends, so she must not have any."

This is from her own narrative. She asked her assistant to be Bryn's Godmother. She asked her nanny to be Bryn's guardian. She had one friend in her wedding - the gal from last week's episode, but she's a childhood friend and lives in Florida. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the other HW's are engaged in real friendships with each other, all excepting Bethenny. And this was true during her earlier stint as well, with the exception of her friendship with Jill, and we saw what happened there (although that was Jill's doing, not Bethenny). She even said in one of her therapy sessions that she's trying to form friendships with more single women, and this is deliberate, so at least she's aware.

[LotusFlower]

She resents her mother. Plenty of people do. But, she also has very valid reasons for doing so even if you discount the hyperbole. I feel like Bethenny could easily be any one of Kim Richards's kids. The only difference is she doesn't default to "but, she is the greatest mom and I love her so much." the way Kim's kids tend to do when questioned.

I think this is a great observation. And on this front, I'm sympathetic to Bethenny. Where she loses me is going public. It's one of the pitfalls of a person's decision to do reality TV, and why relationships and marriages on these shows so often fall apart. It's one thing to vent to your therapist or friends (or realtor!) about your mother or your ex or whomever, it's another thing to vent and call them out on TV. She has an agenda, and she's had one ever since she signed up and started the show by exclaiming she was raised by wolves.

[Leroux]

Of course she has friends , they have been shown in shows, a couple of them and their kids spend summers In the Hamptons with Bethenny, she doesn't have as many friends as Ramona but the ones she has she seem to have kept from many, many years ago. Terry is one of her friends from Florida but she also has friends in NYC, they were with Bethenny when Bethenny had that encounter with John Parisella's daughter and realized that john had been to that daughter what her own father had been to her. Bethenny was in a night out with her friends.

Julie started as her assistant and the turn into Bryn's Godmother, now that Julie left to have her own family, Bethenny and Julie are still friends and every time that Julie goes to nyc she stays with Bethenny and Bryn.

Bethenny's friends are not the socialite type like Ramona or Jill used to have but what is funny to me is that we have yet to see one of Carole's friends, Heather's friend or even Kristen's friend in real life and nobody has any issue with that or assumes that they do not have one real life friend.

When it comes to friendships it is not about quantity but more about quality IMO.

[Trooper York]

Wolves don't make friends.

 

I guess it works the same way if you are raised by wolves.

[LotusFlower]

Julie started as her assistant and the turn into Bryn's Godmother, now that Julie left to have her own family, Bethenny and Julie are still friends and every time that Julie goes to nyc she stays with Bethenny and Bryn.

She didn't relinquish her role as assistant when she became Bry's godmother! If they're now friendly, that's great, but I think it's pretty significant and telling that she chose a person who was working for her as Bryn's godmother over a close friend. And don't forget choosing the nanny that she only knew for a short time as Bryn's guardian.

[sleekandchic]

I did thing it was interesting that Bethenny' s buff who she went to high school had heard that John was abusive to her mother but never heard about him attacking Bethenny and John just sort of shrugged his shoulders when she mentioned it to him. It matter me what exactly happened that day.

Yes! I'm so glad you noticed that too, biakbiak.

I have long thought that Bethenny embellishes and exaggerates her "raised by wolves" narratives to serve whatever her purposes may be in the moment. So when I see Bethenny on camera, "reminiscing" with one of her best, longest-lasting friends in the world, and she addresses one of the seminal, horrific stories of her youth -- being beaten at 19 by her stepfather -- and the friend makes it clear that she has never heard that version before -- it confirms to me that my instincts of often doubting B's truthfulness are on the mark.

I wonder if Bethenny has ever addressed why she didn't call 911 after that terrible event? Why protect a man who has been systematically beating your mother and who has now started on you?

[Celia Rubenstein]

Does she have friends besides her assistants? I would not want to celebrate my birthday with my employees in an intimate setting. I guess no one here can answer that question but jeez, that's sad.

 

You seem to be assuming her party only included assistants and employees.  Since the complete guest list of her actual birthday party was never publicized, I don't know why you'd believe this. 

 

This is from her own narrative. She asked her assistant to be Bryn's Godmother. She asked her nanny to be Bryn's guardian. 

 

For all we know, these people were friends with Bethenny before she ever hired them to work for her.  It's not uncommon for people to hire intimates for such jobs.  And who is to say that Bethenny did not become close personal friends with these people after she hired them, even if she did not know them before?  I think it is unwise to count on Bravo reveal the complete extent of anyone's relationships.   Bravo sticks to the story they want to tell, and what doesn't fit ends up on the cutting room floor.

 

I also don't think it's a coincidence that the other HW's are engaged in real friendships with each other, all excepting Bethenny. And this was true during her earlier stint as well, with the exception of her friendship with Jill, and we saw what happened there (although that was Jill's doing, not Bethenny).

 

I only see two real friendships among the housewives -  Ramona and Dorito and Heather and Carole.  

 

It was Bravo's choice to bring in Dorito as a friend of Ramona's.  I think it was done to give Ramona someone to shoot with so she could discuss Mario.  She wasn't going to do it comfortably with any of the other housewives, but Bravo wanted to make sure it happened.  Presto: Ramona's old pal is added to the cast.  I think Bravo wanted to force Bethenny to interact with the cast she had been away from for so long, and that is why they have not imported a friend for her to have on screen. 

 

Heather and Carole bonded as a function of being on the show together, but it is not an old relationship the kind of which people are knocking Bethenny for not having. Aside from their friendship, they have not been shown to be pals with any other women either on the cast or anywhere else.  But no one knocks them as not being capable of having friends. Likewise Luann and Sonja and Kristin.  We never see any friends of theirs, either.  

 

Bethenny and Jill Zarin actually had the realest friendship I think they ever showed on this franchise (revisionist protests of this not being the case after their falling out notwithstanding).  They seemed to actually enjoy each other's company and laugh together.  But Jill and Ramona were not true friends.  They were "frenemies" at most. And I don't think Ramona and Sonja are or ever really were friends.  They went for twenty years not speaking over some stupid dress, and only came together again because they each needed an ally on the show.  Ramona and Lu were never friends.  Social acquaintances at most.  And despite them being on the show for a while now, no one is really friends with Carole or Heather or Kristin.  So this idea that the show is full of "real friendships" including everyone but Bethenny escapes me. 

 

I think if it suited Bravo's purposes to provide Bethenny with an old friend on the cast, we would see it.  But Bravo brought her back to pep up this lame cast, so of course she is going to be on her own with the women.  Actually, according to reports, Bethenny and Carole bond later in the season and they have been vacationing together.  So maybe if we give it a little time, we actually will see Bethenny develop a real friendship with someone on the show.  It just hasn't happened yet.  

Edited May 24, 2015 by Celia Rubenstein

[Celia Rubenstein]

I can understand not calling the cops. At times, police intervention initiates processes that are beyond your control. Plus the embarrassment. 

 

I agree with this, and would add that many families in which violence or other kinds of abuse are going on are often quite secretive and insular by nature as compared to other families.  The idea of letting anyone know what is going on is totally foreign.  It just isn't done.  

[WireWrap]

 

It was Bravo's choice to bring in Dorito as a friend of Ramona's.  I think it was done to give Ramona someone to shoot with so she could discuss Mario.  She wasn't going to do it comfortably with any of the other housewives, but Bravo wanted to make sure it happened.  Presto: Ramona's old pal is added to the cast.  I think Bravo wanted to force Bethenny to interact with the cast she had been away from for so long, and that is why they have not imported a friend for her to have on screen. 

I am not so sure how close Ramona and Dorinda are in real life, neither had been to the others apartments or vacation homes before they started filming this season. They may have know each other and been friendly with each other but IMO, they were not "friends" in the sense of what I call a friend.  JMO

[ZoloftBlob]

I am not so sure how close Ramona and Dorinda are in real life, neither had been to the others apartments or vacation homes before they started filming this season.

 

It really depends. My closest friend has been in my place a grand total of once. I've been to her place once. A friend from work who I am friends with but not "be my bridesmaid" close comes over for movies and wine all the time and I go there to her place all the time. Sometimes it just works out that way.

[Trooper York]

I think Sonja was raised by sloths.

 

[LotusFlower]

You seem to be assuming her party only included assistants and employees.  Since the complete guest list of her actual birthday party was never publicized, I don't know why you'd believe this. 

 

Gimmipizzayouoldtroll was referring to the birthday party in Mexico, which was filmed. It was just Jason and her employees.

 

For all we know, these people were friends with Bethenny before she ever hired them to work for her.  It's not uncommon for people to hire intimates for such jobs.  And who is to say that Bethenny did not become close personal friends with these people after she hired them, even if she did not know them before?  I think it is unwise to count on Bravo reveal the complete extent of anyone's relationships.   Bravo sticks to the story they want to tell, and what doesn't fit ends up on the cutting room floor.

I'm guessing you didn't watch her spin-offs, because viewers were indeed privy to this information. Bethenny and Julie went way back, but their relationship was always employer-employee. They met when Bethenny hired her. Same with the nanny. It's fine if they became friends while they worked for her, but it's a different kind of friendship when you're on someone's payroll. Expectations and pressures are different.

  

Heather and Carole bonded as a function of being on the show together, but it is not an old relationship the kind of which people are knocking Bethenny for not having. Aside from their friendship, they have not been shown to be pals with any other women either on the cast or anywhere else.  But no one knocks them as not being capable of having friends. Likewise Luann and Sonja and Kristin.  We never see any friends of theirs, either.  

Of course Bravo only shows us a small slice of their lives. But I think Bethenny is singled out or questioned for not having any girlfriends because of how she comes across as so dismissive of people ("You're boring me...zzzz..."), or how she cancels plans, or how she surrounds herself with assistants. And because she's been on reality tv for so long, it's easy to go back into her "story" and see other examples that fit the theory. Believe me, if we were talking about Sonja, I'd be commenting on how weird it is to have interns as friends...

[Celia Rubenstein]

 

Gimmipizzayouoldtroll was referring to the birthday party in Mexico, which was filmed. It was just Jason and her employees.

 

That only reinforces the point I was making ... any party held during a shoot in Mexico that was taped and paid for by Bravo is even weaker evidence of who Bethenny's friends are than the "upstairs" birthday party was.   

 

I think Bethenny is singled out or questioned for not having any girlfriends because of how she comes across as so dismissive of people ...   Believe me, if we were talking about Sonja, I'd be commenting on how weird it is to have interns as friends...

 

Or if we were discussing Carole ... talk about dismissive ("I know she is upset and I don't care").   But I actually disagree that Bethenny is dismissive of people.  She certainly didn't dismiss Jill and her ridiculous drama.  She seemed to sincerely fight for that friendship until it just became obvious there was no point.  She met with both Kelly and Luann to try to work out her problems with them.  She didn't just blow them and their feelings off.  She didn't dismiss Ramona at Luann's housewarming as much a she just walked away from the crazy when she realized she was wasting her time with a liar.  And she didn't dismiss Sonja's and her delusional ravings.  The only situation that comes to mind is the one you mentioned with Heather, who I think was totally shit stirring and sticking her nose in where it didn't belong.  She deserved dismissing imo, although Bethenny made herself look like a jerk with the snoring. That was just dumb.  But I think that had a lot to do with being fed up with the obvious attempt to create on-camera drama by Heather, which I kind of understand.

[MatildaMoody]

Of course Bravo only shows us a small slice of their lives. But I think Bethenny is singled out or questioned for not having any girlfriends because of how she comes across as so dismissive of people ("You're boring me...zzzz..."), or how she cancels plans, or how she surrounds herself with assistants. And because she's been on reality tv for so long, it's easy to go back into her "story" and see other examples that fit the theory. Believe me, if we were talking about Sonja, I'd be commenting on how weird it is to have interns as friends...

But these are all recent things. Bethenny showed her friends in season 1 and 2. In season 2 Jill became the one friend that she could always easily access on camera. My opinion is that her real life friends didn't want to be on camera after what happened to Jason 1.0 so she stuck to filming with her cast mates. 

 

Bethenny's refusal to film certain scenes seems only recent to this season. This is still the woman who filmed with Alex and Simon in Brooklyn when their apartment was still being renovated. The stuff she saw and subsequently told Jill about became the reason that Jill decided to visit them and give them advice. Even at the season 2 reunion, Bethenny said that their apartment was a horror show when Alex looked to her for backup in her claim that it wasn't as bad as Jill made it out to be. 

[Trooper York]

Imagine being a snatch guard for a sloth?

[sleekandchic]

We're allowed to asked questions baeed on what we've seen on camera: the people she holds most dear are the people she pays. That says something.

Hey now, sloths deserve better than that. ;)

Bethenny's lifeblood is living her life on TV. She knows people will talk about what they see on their screens, and she loves it. If she didnt love the attention, good and bad, she would not be back on RHNYC. jmo based on my common sense. :)

How cute is that damn sloth! He looks like he's sunbathing and dreaming of escaping back to Panama.

[Trooper York]

That was the term Luann used when she futilely tried to block the view of Sonja's lady bits as she sprawled on the stage. Sonja with an exposed vajayjay had climbed up to dance with the go-go girls and fell down. Giving a view to the camera and various horrified onlookers.

 

Now Sonja has seen London. Sonja has seen France. But it has been a while since Sonja has seen her underpants.

[Trooper York]

I think I saw on Radaronline that they are receiving psychological counseling for PTSD

[LotusFlower]

That only reinforces the point I was making ... any party held during a shoot in Mexico that was taped and paid for by Bravo is even weaker evidence of who Bethenny's friends are than the "upstairs" birthday party was..

Bethenny spent her 41st birthday in Mexico with Jason and a group of assistants. After her celebratory dinner, she said she preferred this kind of celebration - small and intimate. From the horse's mouth. If you think she returned home and celebrated with a group of other friends, that's just conjecture, and it's not supported by the life she's presented to viewers.

As for her friendship with Jill, I agree it was a real friendship (although short-lived), and I was totally on Bethenny's side during their feud. I'm also not calling her friendless as criticism. I feel sad for her. I just don't think she has enough self awareness to figure out why she doesn't have friends. It's always the other person - Ramona is too this, Heather is too that... Ramona has thirty girlfriends! I've never been a Ramona fan, but that says something pretty impressive (I know the number was inflated by HW's, but still). And all Bethenny could do was snark on all of them. That says something, too.

[Celia Rubenstein]

Bethenny spent her 41st birthday in Mexico with Jason and a group of assistants. After her celebratory dinner, she said she preferred this kind of celebration - small and intimate. From the horse's mouth. If you think she returned home and celebrated with a group of other friends, that's just conjecture, and it's not supported by the life she's presented to viewers

 

 

 

You are putting words in my mouth then correcting me for engaging in "conjecture." Ah, the irony. LOL! 

 

I never said Bethenny went home and celebrated anything with anyone. I said who Bravo chose to show celebrating with her in Mexico was a Bravo call, and doesn't mean she doesn't have friends.  Period.  I think the conjecture is coming from those who insist it is impossible that Bethenny's circle of friends could possibly include anyone we don't see on the show.  

 

And all Bethenny could do was snark on all of them. That says something, too.

 

Andy Cohen didn't bring her back to this show to play kissy face with people or sing Kumbaya.  She was hired to bring the snark, and that is what she is doing. 

[zoeysmom]

Not really.

The original Margarita loses something bottled.

But her recipe is good:

2oz premium clear tequila

1/2 juice of lime

splash Bols triple sec

pour over crushed ice

variations 1) add splash of club soda for lighter 2) bit of agave for sweeter

Great recipe but it just doesn't reflect the bottled version.  It is more like cheap tequila and some nasty Crystal Lite affectation.

[LotusFlower]

I never said Bethenny went home and celebrated anything with anyone. I said who Bravo chose to show celebrating with her in Mexico was a Bravo call, and doesn't mean she doesn't have friends.  Period.  I think the conjecture is coming from those who insist it is impossible that Bethenny's circle of friends could possibly include anyone we don't see on the show.  

I was just following the line of posts (or debate), not just responding to the one. The only reason I mentioned the birthday in Mexico is because you didn't seem to know about it as you questioned the guest list. I just pointed out that it wasn't fake - it was a real birthday dinner that Bethenny showed and then talked about. There was no hidden guest list or second birthday party. Bethenny has lived her life for the past 7 or 8 years on reality TV, including revealing pretty intimate and candid things in therapy, prides herself on being "authentic," had a talk show where she talked about her life non-stop, written autobiographical books, etc... If she has close friends, I just think they would have showed up somewhere along the way. I know I keep mentioning the assistant and the nanny as godmother and guardian, but it's a pretty revealing fact. She talked at length about asking Julie to be godmother (and a lot of it was sad b/c she doesn't have family). Julie had no competition. Make of that what you will.

 

Andy Cohen didn't bring her back to this show to play kissy face with people or sing Kumbaya.  She was hired to bring the snark, and that is what she is doing.

Yes, and she's doing it well. And it's true to who she is. And it's likely why Ramona has thirty friends, and Bethenny has few.

[zoeysmom]

You are 100% right in your recollection.

Bethenny does celebrate her birthday, she just hates the over the top celebrations with the pompous affair that remind her of her mother. She has no problem with intimate celebrations with people she feels comfortable around.

Bethenny begged Jason to have a small celebration with her friends for her 40 birthday, Jason completely overlooked all that and planned the celebration he wanted so Bethenny lost it, the next year Bethenny, Jason and her assistants went to Mexico and had a small birthday party for her and Bethenny was very happy and said this was the kind of birthday celebrations she enjoyed the most.

Throughout many seasons of reality TV Bethenny has been constant in the fact that she doesn't like big gatherings, big celebrations with people she doesn't know, she just doesn't enjoy being around people she doesn't know and prefers small gatherings with her friends.

I guess she departed from that strong stance this year.  Bethenny can't get over the fact she and her mother share a birthday.  Never seen such a classless asshole as Bethenny getting on top of the table to bust a move.  The rest of the women looked so uncomfortable. I don't think anyone wants to throw Bethenny a party after the way she treated Jason.. Another example of being an asshole.  Bethenny keeps making up facts to suit her present state of mind. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Ramona has thirty friends, and Bethenny has few.

 

Now see, that is a good example of conjecture, lol! 

 

Bethenny showed her friends in season 1 and 2. In season 2 Jill became the one friend that she could always easily access on camera. My opinion is that her real life friends didn't want to be on camera after what happened to Jason 1.0 so she stuck to filming with her cast mates.

 

Yeah, Jason learned the hard way that being a part of one of these shows can mess with your professional life, that's for sure.  No one who has any kind of job that might be put at risk should go anywhere near a Real Housewives taping. 

 

But even for those with less to lose, I can still totally see why the real life friends of the women would not want to appear on camera. You never know how Bravo is going to edit things.  The network exists to humiliate people.  An innocent laugh or frown or comment could be spliced into a scene in such a way that it makes you look like a fool, and you have to live with it forever.  You don't necessarily get to appear in another episode on the next season to rectify the embarrassing impression created.  You don't get a chance to defend yourself in blog posted at the Bravo website.  We used to see a lot more of people's outside relationships on the show, but I think people have caught on to the general risk of public humiliation involved and that is why we see a lot less of ALL the housewives friends.

 

Heck, we have at least one husband this season who is said to want no part of filming.  Is it that big a surprise that friends want no part of it, either?

[LotusFlower]

Now see, that is a good example of conjecture, lol! 

No, I would say it's commenting on what we see and what she's shown us for the past 7 years.