S04.E04: The Apprentice

[myril]

Its also possible that this story line of OUAT is pre-OUATIW and we are seeing Will pre-return of Alice, back when the rabbit came to the town and got Will to go get Alice out of the insane asylum.

Think they made clear by now, that the events in season 4 play out after the main events of OUaTiW , Will has his heart back.

Edited October 26, 2014 by katusch

[Shanna Marie]

I had a wacky thought earlier today: It would have been amusing (and more surprising than what happened) if "the man you used to be" that kicked in when Hook got his hand back wasn't Pirate Hook but rather Lt. Jones, and he'd suddenly become very proper and upright, no trace of pirate at all. Though I guess that would have killed the blackmail plot. Still, it would have surprised the hell out of Rumple. I doubt he knows Hook's full background.

 

It also makes more sense than the hand making him go bad because he didn't go really bad until after he lost the hand. If he was able to do better after being at his absolute worst without the hand, he should have been able to improve himself from moderately bad with the hand, and he also had the hand when he was at his best.

[RadioGirl27]

It also makes more sense than the hand making him go bad because he didn't go really bad until after he lost the hand. If he was able to do better after being at his absolute worst without the hand, he should have been able to improve himself from moderately bad with the hand, and he also had the hand when he was at his best.

I have stopped trying to make sense of the hand and the blackmail plot, because it doesn't make any. I don't know what the writers want to achieve with it, because it's impossible for all of the characters involved in it (and that includes Emma) to don't end up looking as morons.

[YaddaYadda]

That's probably why Rumple messed with the hand when he re-attached it.  Dark One lies, Dark One tricks and this whole thing sounds like one big con.  He plants the idea in Hook's head making him susceptible to believe him the second he does something out of anger.  He got pissy with Will over the spilled wine and that freaks him out enough, then he punches Will because he won't listen to him re: breaking into library and that happened after he seemed completely over what happened in the restaurant.  Two hands Hook was an asshole but nothing to do the level of one hand Hook.

 

The whole thing sounds like Rumple decided to mess with Hook the moment he tried to blackmail him a second time.  He even believed him when he told him he switched back the dagger.

 

I'm more curious about Rumple telling Hook he reminded him of his darkness and he should thank him for it.  Seems like Rumple wants to make sure Hook thinks he cannot change so that he can just have him at his mercy.  Hook's instinct is to tell Emma and Rumple pours on thick about how Hook really hasn't changed because the hand gave him permission to be who he used to be.  And Hook doesn't even click that the hand also belonged to someone who had honor before he turned his back on that.

Edited October 26, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Hecate7]

I'm hoping Henry was not ok with the fact that Emma did the asking (as in 'the man should ask you out first'). It's also very shallow, but it saves something from Henry's character... Well, alright, there's not much to save anyhow.

He likes Hook.

 

He's not ok with the fact that this means Neal really is gone forever, and he will never have his Dad. And since this is Storybrook and people are always changing timelines and coming back from the dead in various ways, it's reasonable for Henry to worry that Neal will someday come back from the dead, as Marian did, only to find the door locked.

 

No one would be okay in Henry's shoes. He just found out he had a father, just remembered him, only to find out he's dead. But nobody can do anything about that, and it's unrealistic to expect Emma and Hook to wait through their whole lives just in case Neal comes back.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm more curious about Rumple telling Hook he reminded him of his darkness and he should thank him for it. Seems like Rumple wants to make sure Hook thinks he cannot change so that he can just have him at his mercy. Hook's instinct is to tell Emma and Rumple pours on thick about how Hook really hasn't changed because the hand gave him permission to be who he used to be. And Hook doesn't even click that the hand also belonged to someone who had honor before he turned his back on that.

The way I have decided to view it, is that the hand Is from the past, and in the past he was a meany face. Plain and simple. Was he bad throughout his entire past? No. But the hand was just a reminder that he was once a villain in the past.

Rumple is a lying liar who lies, so I'll doubt if we'll ever know if the hand was actually tampered with or not.

I like how you mentioned it didn't even click for Killy that he was also good in the past. Despite all the bravado he tends to put on for show, Killy seems to have really low self esteem, guilt issues, and probably still thinks he's the worst.

[Curio]

I like how you mentioned it didn't even click for Killy that he was also good in the past. Despite all the bravado he tends to put on for show, Killy seems to have really low self esteem, guilt issues, and probably still thinks he's the worst.

Responding in the speculation thread...

[Zuleikha]

I thought this was a good episode overall, but I didn't like the Idiot Plot aspect of Hook not going to Emma, Regina, or Blue to have his newly attached hand checked out. He knows Rumple is a lying liar who lies, so just because Rumple claimed only his magic could change it doesn't mean that's the truth. Even if they couldn't change it, they should be able to confirm the presence or lack of a curse. Hook's too smart and too suspicious to do something as major as getting rid of a hand simply on the basis of Rumple's say so.

 

I was impressed with Henry pushing Rumple's buttons at the end. I don't think Regina would have let Henry go undercover in Gold's shop if she realized what a dingbat Belle is. But Regina thinks Belle has the dagger. She also hasn't been around Rumple at all, and I think really believes he's trying to be a better person for Belle and Neal's sake. I do think Henry is relatively safe from Rumple, though, now that Rumple doesn't fear the prophecy of Henry being his undoing. 

[KingOfHearts]

This episode is just a big "screw you" to character development from the writers. Hook regresses into a vengeful, reckless idiot. It's a tragedy that he didn't get to keep his hand, because if he did, it would've symbolized how much he's changed. The hook represented his quest for revenge against Rumple and his identity as a ruthless pirate. Being without his hand is also a disability. The reason he couldn't keep his hand was stupid and made no sense.

A&E hate change, don't they?

Edited January 26, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This episode is just a big "screw you" to character development from the writers.

This episode was written with utter disregard to the characters as they've been set up. We have Elsa and Hook, people from another world, talking about "dating." Hook's idea of a great evening out that he's an expert in planning is an Italian restaurant, basically the most generic date ever. The way he talked, he got the idea from Walsh, but if he was competing with Walsh, you'd think he'd have done something more unique and like him -- a picnic on the beach, "borrow" another boat for a moonlight sail. Then there's Rumple managing to convince him the hand would turn him evil when he was at his worst with the hook and he was a good man while he had the hand. Or a right-handed person who hasn't had a left hand in a couple of centuries suddenly leading with his left hand.

Will makes no sense in this show. Emma's treatment of him doesn't reflect well on her. She's harsher with a guy who disrupted her date than she is on people who'd attempted murder.

I do like the Charmings waiting up for Emma and Snow eagerly taking pictures.

3 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

A&E hate change, don't they?

I remember when they talked about Hook getting a modern wardrobe and there was all the speculation about what it would be. There were some Photoshop attempts to show what they thought the new costume would be. And then it turned out to be exactly what everyone guessed, barely different from the pirate outfit, just with a shorter coat. It wasn't even really all that appropriate for the kind of date they went on.

I guess they thought we wouldn't recognize Hook if he didn't have the hook and wasn't dressed in black leather. They had to keep the status quo with him, or as close to it as possible.

[andromeda331]

15 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I do like the Charmings waiting up for Emma and Snow eagerly taking pictures.

That's the only thing I liked about this episode. The rest was crap. Snow eagerly taking pictures and wanting to know all about the date. Charming not really wanting to know all about the date and worrying more about Hook now that he has two hands. Both of them waiting up for Emma. It was just all really nice and really cute.

[Camera One]

Shouldn't Hook and Snow have a chat about the hands they can't control?  

[daxx]

It always bothered me how Hook was written this episode. The only time he ever dismissed Emma’s concerns about anything was the date. She’s talking about the puddle at her car and he is totally dismissive of her literally saying “what does that prove?”  With a tone he’s never really used with Emma. I can only assume it was meant to show the hand was affecting him, that and him hitting Will with his left hand. Except they never addressed that, in fact they contradicted that when Rumple said there was nothing wrong with the hand. Though perhaps Rumple’s an unreliable narrator, they never followed up on that at all. 

Spoiler

Once Rumple had Hook’s heart they could have had him taunt him by telling him that he’d cursed the hand when he attached it. It is very bad form that Hook didn’t immediately tell Emma what happened with Rumple, I mean she would have believed his side of the story no matter what Rumple said and before that he should have told her about the hand and had Emma try to remove it or at least have Regina check it for tampering.

Just a lot of OOC things for Hook considering where he was supposed to be in his redemption arc.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not sure if it's funny or sad that the Dark One was outsmarted by Heidi from the alps. On one hand, Anna is kind of an annoying Mary Sue, but on the other, she's probably more like a Disney princess than any other character the show ever had. (Except maybe Ariel.) 

Edited January 26, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm not sure if it's funny or sad that the Dark One was outsmarted by Heidi from the alps. 

A&E missed out on another great literary adaptation there.

[profdanglais]

This episode is emblematic of S4 for me. Tiny parts of it--little snapshots-- I love, but as a whole it's rubbish. Emma and Hook and their date are all just used here as plot devices. We get the date that Hook would definitely not have planned but had to because they needed to be somewhere Will could stumble on them, we get the absolutely idiotic hand plot which is not only wildly OOC for Hook but also makes no sense, and only exists as a way for Rumple to get Hook's heart. The whole date is really nothing to do with Emma and Hook and their relationship at all, it's just about advancing all the other nonsense. It's infuriating. 

Also, Emma just kind of shrugging when Killian's hand appears and then disappears again is as bad as him being dismissive of her concerns about the puddle. Would she not realise how important the whole thing was to him? 

[Shanna Marie]

Letting Hook keep the hand might have made this story line work better. If Rumple did enchant the hand before giving it, he could have used that to force Hook to hat the Apprentice and then keep him from telling Emma. Then we don't need the stupid back-and-forth blackmail or the setup for Hook to be so desperate to get rid of the "cursed" hand that he made a deal with Rumple that then gave Rumple blackmail material, and we don't have Hook willingly withholding vital information.

So, say Hook does kind of blackmail Rumple into giving the hand back -- at that point, I think even if he'd told Belle what he'd figured out, she wouldn't have believed him and maybe would have been too afraid of what she'd find out to put it to the test, so I'm not going to criticize Hook for not going straight to her with his concerns about Rumple -- but not only with the truth about the dagger, but with the fact that Rumple giving the hand back would count as proof that he was a changed man, while him keeping the hand does raise doubts. Rumple does it, but puts a whammy on it. No need for the encounters with Will or fears from Hook about what the hand will do to him (since that part makes no sense), but then Rumple calls on the hand and Hook finds himself forced to do Rumple's will, and unable to tell Emma. Cutting the hand off again won't do any good because the spell was merely transmitted through the hand into Hook, so it's part of Hook now and the hand is just a hand.

Hook is pretty well established as a character and is a rather striking personality, so we'll probably be able to remember who he is even if he has a hand.

It's interesting just how much more flexibility with him they had in the few minutes when he had a hand. He actually got to take his jacket off on camera, something we never see otherwise. He gets to take his jacket off when coming indoors!

I also wish they'd set up him wanting the hand back a little better, especially since it was so easy to make him want the hook back later. We needed to see him feeling hampered by it, like he tries to put his arm around Emma and pokes her with the hook accidentally, or he realizes he can't carry a cup of coffee and hold hands with her at the same time. She holds the hook, but it's not the same because he can't feel it.

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Or was it? Otherwise, it's odd that the hand he had when he was at his best made him act worse than he did when he was devoting his life to revenge and that a right-handed person who hasn't had a left hand in centuries was suddenly leading with his left hand. A curse was the only explanation.

That's interesting... I came away from this episode assuming that the hand was not Cursed, and it was all in Hook's head because he was still feeling extreme guilt over everything he did.  

[Shanna Marie]

56 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I came away from this episode assuming that the hand was not Cursed, and it was all in Hook's head because he was still feeling extreme guilt over everything he did.  

I think that's what the show was trying to portray. I just don't think it really works that Hook could be psyched out like that. The moment Rumple started in on the "you had this hand when you were a selfish pirate" routine, Hook should have pointed out that he had the hook when he was crazed with revenge, so what's Rumple's point? The parts of his past that Hook feels guilty about involved the hook. He doesn't seem to have any problem with what he did before that. He still identifies as a pirate and boasts about that. He just seems to feel some guilt for taking Milah away from her family and being a jerk to pre-Dark One Rumple. If he's going to think that something would be a bad influence, it would be the hook, and getting rid of the hook and getting the hand back would be more likely to trick him into being an upright good citizen than to turn him violent.

[tennisgurl]

There were some aspects of this episode I liked. The shout outs to the Sorcerers Apprentice were kind of fun (the guy being turned into a mouse, the broom, the music cue at the end, Henry literally becoming a Sorcerers Apprentice), and Snow and Charming getting all parental about Emma's date was hilarious and adorable. I liked some aspects of the flashback, like when Ana reunited with Kristoff and Sven (the true hero!) and I generally like Ana, even if I roll my eyes at her Mary Sueing across the EF. 

Unfortunately, there is so much here that is utter and complete garbage. For starters, why the Sorcerers Apprentice stuff? It was all so surface level and pointless. is it just so Rumple can use the iconic hate? Again, what does that hat have to do with anything?! And tossing out all the character growth that Hook had just for some stupid drama is just so disrespectful to his character, it makes me queasy. I mean, the evil hand is ridiculously stupid, and just makes me feel like I am watching a really unfunny version of Doctor Strangelove, but it not being an evil hand makes it even worse. So Hook has just been a bad guy this whole time, and just needed an evil hand to blame? What? And why does he even care about having a hand for Emma? Emma has never minded him having a hook, and while Hook doesent seem to be thrilled with getting his hand hacked off, he seemed to be doing fine, and was more pissed about losing Mila than losing the hand. Emma didnt even notice his lack of hook until it was pointed out to her! And now Hook is being blackmailed into being Rumples lackey? God this sucks!

Henry is such an annoying little shit here. Oh, who cares if a woman is dying, its so awesome her husband doesent love her, and he can go back to Regina! She really has rubbed off on him, hasn't she? And Operation Mongoose is so dumb, I need several months to just unpack how dumb it is, and the billions of plot holes and existential questions that it implies, but never addresses. Why is this a thing now? This has never been a thing, the book has never CHANGED stories, it just TOLD them! Its never been otherwise! And acting like Regina has been unfairly cast as a villain by this evil mean book just whitewashes her very evil deeds that she did, totally on her own, and makes it so that she doesent have to WORK to have a happy life like everyone else in the world, she has to just make someone write her into one. Its all so stupid, and knowing what comes up next, it just makes my brain hurt. Oh, I have more rants on this, but I need to clear my thoughts...

I even felt a little sorry for Rumple, as Henry is clearly manipulating his feelings about his dead son so he can spy on him for Operation Stupid. But only a little, as Rumple has fully moved into his "villain who is evil and a dick just because" phase of his life as a character, my least favorite kind of Rumple. He no longer has complicated motivations, he just wants to cackle evilly about power like some d list Emperor Palatine. Spare me. 

Operation Mongoose...Mongoose are known for fighting and killing snakes...like Cobras. Fuck off Regina, why are you such an asshole?

Oh right, the book made her an asshole. Ugggggg. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Camera One]

I was rewatching that promo from the first post of this thread, and it's interesting to me how they are dealing with flashbacks in 4A when they're sometimes telling a story that doesn't involve a lot of the main characters in the cast (unless they're forced in like a square peg in a round hole à la David's centric).  From the promo, it seems like the "parallel" for this episode is Anna makes a deal with the Devil (oops, I mean Rumple) in the past, while Hook makes a deal with the Devil in the present, but "all magic comes with a price unless you're Rumple!"  

Back when 2A was happening, I expected the flashbacks to tell us the story of Sleeping Beauty from the beginning to the end, and I know that would be hard to do when Aurora was just a single character in the present-day and the past might not involve many of the cast members at a time.  But they managed to do it for "Frozen" in 4A with just Elsa in the present.  So it could have been done.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

the book has never CHANGED stories, it just TOLD them! Its never been otherwise! And acting like Regina has been unfairly cast as a villain by this evil mean book just whitewashes her very evil deeds that she did, totally on her own, and makes it so that she doesent have to WORK to have a happy life like everyone else in the world, she has to just make someone write her into one.

What the show and Regina & Henry conveniently ignore is all of the terrible stuff Regina did after the book ended. That is, the murder, rape, attempted murder, accessory to murder, theft, unlawful imprisonment, etc that she was a party to in Storybrooke. No one is writing the story of Storybrooke that is forcing Regina to be evil or villainous. If the show wants to say that's what has been going on, then they just wiped out the agency of all the characters in the story and made the entire show irrelevant. I think the implications from events being fated is bad enough, but this takes those problems to a whole new level.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

What the show and Regina & Henry conveniently ignore is all of the terrible stuff Regina did after the book ended. That is, the murder, rape, attempted murder, accessory to murder, theft, unlawful imprisonment, etc that she was a party to in Storybrooke. No one is writing the story of Storybrooke that is forcing Regina to be evil or villainous. If the show wants to say that's what has been going on, then they just wiped out the agency of all the characters in the story and made the entire show irrelevant. I think the implications from events being fated is bad enough, but this takes those problems to a whole new level.

Along with completely ignoring that Henry knew all of that and was afraid of Regina because of all her murders and stuff. He knew Regina had Graham's heart. He was terrified after Graham was murdered that Regina would kill Emma. That's why he stopped the Operation Cobra. That he told Regina he didn't want to see her again after he saw her try to kill David. They ignored that he only went back with Regina in season two, episode two because she was terrorizing the town and he was scared she was going to kill someone. Then immediately tried to climb out the window. They ignore the talk that came after that. He knew everything in the book was true. That's why he went to get Emma in the first place. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by andromeda331

[Camera One]

It's interesting the differing approaches they are taking with different characters.  Regina says in the premiere that she's not "that person anymore" (aka The Evil Queen).  At the same time, they have Hook continue to blame himself and he considers himself responsible for things he did in the Enchanted Forest.  That difference is precisely why Hook's redemption worked while Regina's didn't.  In both cases, the Writers have Emma giving pep talks to both to reassure them she trusts them, but they don't work with the former because Regina goes on and on about how she has ALREADY suffered while Hook feels he DESERVES to suffer more before he can forgive himself.  How can they go wrong with one character while being able to do it right with another.  It's unfathomable.  And then to have BOTH in the same episode makes the inconsistencies stick out like a sore thumb.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

The first thing Hook does when Emma walks into Granny's is inquire about the Snow Queen, as if it's an urgent matter of upmost importance. But then later, he nearly chastises Emma for talking about it on their date, like it's no big deal. I understand not wanting to talk about imminent danger on a date, but that's an odd way to write Hook. Why make him all concerned about the Snow Queen, then in the same episode write him as the person to go, "nah chill brah, worry about that stuff later". Maybe it was just the way Colin acted the scene at the diner, but Hook seemed very much on high alert.

[Shanna Marie]

The whole date thing is really eating at me, the more I think about it. This was such a great opportunity. They had one of the few characters who was purely from the fairytale world, with no modern America fake memory download and very little experience of being in Storybrooke, not to mention being more than a hundred years out of his time even in the fairytale world, together with the most "real world" character on the show, with little experience in the fairytale world or even in the isolated bubble of Storybrooke. That should have been a massive culture clash. They would have had very different ideas about what dating entailed.

For starters, the concept of "dating." It bugs me so much that they had Hook throw around that term, in this episode and in "White Out" when he talked about what their first and second dates were. That's a relatively modern concept (I think post-WWI). His reaction to Emma asking him out should have been "what?" Even if they decided that things were different in their world and people did date like we do, they didn't build that infrastructure into their world. Where would you go on a date? Ye Olde Tavern? There were no restaurants, no theater (other than a puppet show), no mini-golf or anything like it that we saw. In the time period they seem to mostly be working from, it would have been "courting." During Hook's navy days, if he was courting a proper lady, that would have entailed being introduced to her at a public event, like a ball, assembly, or other party, then calling upon her at home, maybe followed by a public stroll. With women lower on the social scale, it might have meant meeting a woman in a tavern, possibly going from there to a room in the tavern, and that was likely to be along the lines of what he did as a pirate (when he wasn't with Milah). Emma's a princess, so he'd definitely have classed her with the kind of woman who had to be courted properly.

And they could have had so much fun with that, like if after their time travel adventure and the first kiss, he'd dressed up in his best clothes (maybe a modern suit? Or his old navy uniform?) and visited her at her parents' home while her parents were home, sat there for fifteen minutes, making awkward conversation, and then left, maybe invited Emma to take a walk with him. Emma would have been like "what the heck?" while her parents would have been impressed that he was doing things properly.

Spoiler

That was pretty much what went on with Gaston and Belle in the season 5 flashback, and they called that a "date," which suggests to me that this was sloppy worldbuilding rather than them making a deliberate choice to give their world a different social structure.

I really find it hard to believe that Killian Jones, who boasts about being able to plan an evening out (in spite of knowing nothing about this world), would have resorted to taking a date to Olive Garden. Even if he got the idea for the restaurant date from Walsh, would he have copied Walsh, but with a more downscale restaurant? Would he have known about picking his date up at home? How did he learn any of this stuff? If he was going to go for a conventional American date, we should have seen him frantically researching it at the library -- hiding behind bookcases with a stack of Cosmopolitan magazines.

A better date might have been to take Emma dancing. They had enjoyed the ball during the time travel, before it got interrupted, and since dancing with a hook would be awkward, that would have provided more motivation for him to get his hand back -- he hadn't been to a ball since he lost his hand, and he hadn't liked dancing with Emma without two good hands, not being able to feel her. I don't know where they'd have gone dancing in Storybrooke, but maybe there's an underground dance club, only instead of it being a rave, it's like a ball, where they do the dances of their home world. Then we've got the culture clash again, where in his world they would meet up at something like that, with the "date" being that they would let each other know they would both be there and he would ask for a certain number of dances in advance, while she'd be expecting him to pick her up. "I hear there's a ball. I'll be there. If you'll be there, I want to dance with you," would sound to her like something that would happen in junior high, while to him it would be the proper way to court a lady.

And speaking of Olive Garden, what was Will doing there, anyway? The town has a real bar, so if he was hanging out and drinking, wouldn't he have gone to the Rabbit Hole rather than the Olive Garden? (I know, not really an Olive Garden, but that's what it makes me think of, a generic "Italian" restaurant for the blandest possible date.)

[daxx]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I know, not really an Olive Garden, but that's what it makes me think of, a generic "Italian" restaurant for the blandest possible date

Once again plot needs trump all character progression and consistency.

[KingOfHearts]

It's funny that theres a Lady and the Tramp reference, as even in that movie, the date was more interesting and utilized the characters' backgrounds. They were both dogs, so obviously they couldn't eat inside a fancy restaurant, but Tramp knew the owners because he ate their food scraps. It's a romantic Italian date... in a back alley with two canines. That wasn't nearly as bland as Captain Hook and the daughter of Snow White, which is weird to say.

[Camera One]

I figured the Lady and the Tramp reference was the reason they set the date at an Italian restaurant.  Some of the scenes leading up to the date was more "everyday" life than we had gotten in a while and since, so I guess I overlooked the blandness of the venue.  The date itself was meant to be a disaster no matter where they set it.

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, daxx said:

Once again plot needs trump all character progression and consistency.

Even more annoying, they completely ignore characterization, worldbuilding, etc., to set up the set-up of a plot. The date is an excuse for the hand, and then Will's there as an excuse to make Hook worried about the hand, all so Hook can end up under Rumple's power.

Spoiler

And, as I recall, nothing actually happens with that power. It's all just so Hook will stay silent about Rumple being up to something shady and will know what's going on when Rumple is going to "help" Emma get rid of her powers, so that Rumple can then take Hook's heart and then really have Hook in his power. They could have cut a lot of the messing around by having Rumple learn earlier that he needed Hook's heart and go straight to that without the hand nonsense.

Good writers would be able to use the character moment to set up the plot in a way that actually is true to the characters.

So, say Hook plans to bring Emma to the underground ball so they can dance together without the distraction of needing to set the timeline straight, and he wants his hand back so that he can dance properly and be able to feel her when he touches her in the dance. In a previous episode, he's paid an awkward call on the Charmings and he's spotted his hand in a jar in Rumple's shop (did he not notice it earlier when he was guarding Belle?). Rumple puts a whammy on the hand so that it will transfer the spell to Hook and allow Rumple to control him. We actually see a pleasant date, with a bit of confusion because of the culture clash, but they end up resolving it by talking about their different worlds. Maybe something happens during the date, like Ingrid tries to freeze it, or something.

Spoiler

Maybe they can be setting up Ingrid's later mind games with Emma by doing something that makes Emma need to use her powers in public and we see the reaction of the other people at the ball, who aren't all crazy about magic, given their experiences. But this would require actual worldbuilding.

Then, just as Hook is returning to wherever he's living in the absence of the Jolly Roger, Rumple does the magic that summons him and reveals that he can now control Hook -- and it's not just the hand, so cutting his hand off won't do any good. Cue anguish from Hook, who knows something's up but is physically incapable of telling anyone. When he tries, it just comes out as a boasting pirate speech that makes him sound like he hasn't changed at all, so he quickly stops even trying.

[tennisgurl]

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Emma's a princess, so he'd definitely have classed her with the kind of woman who had to be courted properly.

That makes me sad we didnt get a whole sequence where, instead of the boring date that led to the utterly pointless hand/Will drama, Hook hyped up this super awesome perfect date with Emma, and he ends up taking her on a stroll around town, gets her a parasol, and they just walk around. Charming and Snow are like "wow, Hook is crushing this date!" and Emma is just baffled. 

This episode also reminds me, do we even know how old Hook is? He has to be pretty damn old by now, as he was already a pirate before Rumple was the Dark One, but how old is he exactly? Over a hundred, but how much more? And did we ever establish what land he originated from? Later on I think we were supposed to assume he was from the EF, but the flashbacks from when his brother died looked more Regency era than the medieval era that the rest of the EF seemed to be. Is he from a later time period of the EF? Or an earlier time, and time is a flat circle in fairy tale land? Is he from some sort of Horatio Hornblower style universe originally? I feel like these are some basic things we want to establish about a main character. 

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This episode also reminds me, do we even know how old Hook is? He has to be pretty damn old by now, as he was already a pirate before Rumple was the Dark One, but how old is he exactly? Over a hundred, but how much more? And did we ever establish what land he originated from? Later on I think we were supposed to assume he was from the EF, but the flashbacks from when his brother died looked more Regency era than the medieval era that the rest of the EF seemed to be. Is he from a later time period of the EF? Or an earlier time, and time is a flat circle in fairy tale land? Is he from some sort of Horatio Hornblower style universe originally? I feel like these are some basic things we want to establish about a main character. 

I think at some point (maybe even this episode?) he said he was closer to 200 than the thousand (or million?) years Emma jokingly mentioned. I've generally figured he was probably around 35 in actual age, plus the 27 years of the curse and maybe a century or so in Neverland (given the time difference between when Bae was in London and when he returned to our world, some time after Hook left Neverland for good).

I think the Enchanted Forest is actually more late Georgian than medieval, though there are medieval aspects and the whole thing is kind of a mess. Most of the men's clothes, especially of the upper-crust, are 1780s or so, and a lot of the women's clothes fit that, too (except when the costuming goes stark raving nuts and puts 1980s prom dresses at a ball). Hook's uniform fits the Horatio Hornblower era, which is late 1700s through early 1800s. And this timing would fit with when the Grimms were collecting stories. The weird thing is the technology, since Hook's ship has cannon, and he carries a pistol (the one he pulled out when fighting the flying monkeys looked old-fashioned and not like something he'd have found in Storybrooke, though wouldn't a gun from that era have been single-shot rather than a revolver?), so gunpowder must exist in this world, except most of the fighting involves swords and bows and arrows. And there seems to be no difference in customs, technology, clothing, etc. between Hook's era and the Charmings' era. I guess they're permanently stuck in a non-progressing Grimm fairytale world, akin to Alice's Victorian Literature World and Whale's World Without Color?

Spoiler

and Cruella's eternal 1920s, Depression Era Kansas World, etc.

In addition to them constantly forgetting that Hook doesn't have the modern world memory download, it never seems to matter that he's at least a century behind everyone else. I don't think it ever comes up that he's basically a time traveler from the past. I guess maybe he caught up during the curse while time was frozen.

[KingOfHearts]

10 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I guess they're permanently stuck in a non-progressing Grimm fairytale world

Worlds that are frozen in a certain era just sound lifeless and boring.