S03.E03: I Can't Get Over You to Save My Life

[BBDi]

Most excellent point about Pam being fun. She probably was/is! And in theory, she's probably a good match for Deacon, who's kind of a man whore when he can't have Rayna and who also looks pretty hard. But see, I want better for Deacon, not someone who might hand him a shot at a party or light up a joint in his room. Plus, the character is the one who's hard, not necessarily the actress herself. I know nothing about the actress.

 

 

I noticed that when she first met Deacon, she said something about how he should buy her a cup of coffee after she said she loved his work. I was thinking that the fact that she said coffee and not a drink might mean she's also a recovering alcoholic. (Although could be that she knows that Deacon is.) In any case, I figured that maybe she is going to be presented as a been-there, done-that, older but wiser kind of person who can help take Deacon out of himself a bit. Or she could just be a non-recovered drunk who comes by her hard-ridden look honestly and is gonna drag Deacon down with her. Remains to be seen.

[Sutton]

MM - I want better for Deacon too.... When you say hand him a shot at a party you don't mean a drink because if they go down that road again I'm totally done with the series. He said to Rayna when she went to see him in season 1, that he wants Maddie to be proud of him and bring something to the table. They can't or wouldn't do that to him again would they?? He's pissed I get it. Rayna wanting as she says a clean slate but he has to move in a direction of less partying, less on night stands, more concentrating on his career and not getting himself in a situation where his picture will be splashed in the tabloids with a picture that's in a compromising position. I wonder if LW would be behind getting someone to try and get Deacon to start drinking again so he can say to Rayna "I told you he can't stop drinking." That would be a way of LW forcing Rayna restricking Maddie spending time and weekends with Deacon. Protective of Deacon, NO not me.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this but is Teddy coming out looking like the stable parent to both girls.

[MisterS]

Though I suppose it could also just be that the writers didn't think it through. Either way, I do think it was all about Rayna. She was uncomfortable with Maddie knowing about the proposal. Maddie was mad about it, but she wasn't scarred by the fact that Deacon told her. Rayna was upset.

I think you might be right about the writers not thinking it through. Though I like your theory as at least it gives the whole thing some meaning!

Re Pam, don't care that she looks like she's been around for a while because so has Deacon and she's age appropriate for him. Respect for not adopting the usual Hollywood approach of putting a younger woman with a middle aged man. TBH they both look like they've lived a little although IMO Deacon is too bodily perfect for a former hard living addict, not that I'm complaining. What I do object to is yet another woman without a personality throwing herself at him without any lead in. Is Deacon so irresistible? And it's pointless and if she's only there to mark time a la Stacey and Megan.

[madam magpie]

I noticed that when she first met Deacon, she said something about how he should buy her a cup of coffee after she said she loved his work. I was thinking that the fact that she said coffee and not a drink might mean she's also a recovering alcoholic.

That's a good point. We shall see...

 

(On that note... I am still all for that daddy's and daughters trip to Dollywood. ASAP, please.)

I wonder if they'd let us come too. I've wanted to go to Dollywood since it opened.

 

I wonder if LW would be behind getting someone to try and get Deacon to start drinking again so he can say to Rayna "I told you he can't stop drinking." That would be a way of LW forcing Rayna restricking Maddie spending time and weekends with Deacon.

That would be cool. It would give Luke some reason for being at least and would create an interesting storyline. Alas, I don't think they'll go there. God forbid Luke be interesting.

[JoannKB]

Combining their tours seems like an extraordinarily stupid financial decision, for a woman who's trying to make a struggling music label financially stable. With her own tour, her label gets all the proceeds. Now co-headlining, she has to share (in what will probably not be an equal split) with Luke and the label he's on.

Not to mention what everyone's already mentioned about changing dates and cities for a tour where tickets have probably already been sold.

[slade3]

Teddy was so sad in this episode, I decided I will now blame all of his despicable behavior from past seasons on bad writing/the writers trying to find their way.

 

Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to be feeling the same way about Rayna later this season, or next season. Because I'm not happy with her right now, but I refuse to give up on her character, or on my commitment to her relationship with Deacon. Deacon + Rayna forever.

 

I was happy Juliette ended up on Rayna's steps. It took two full seasons, but I signed up for this show hoping it would focus on Rayna and Juliette becoming allies, friends, like-family. I don't have faith the writers will get us there with the baby story, but I'm willing to hope.

 

I just want to say to Zoe: Run, Zoe, run. You are so pretty. You deserve better. Again, the writers made a mistake by not focusing on the friendship between Zoe and Scarlett last season. The angsty stuff about Gunnar isn't working for me. While I think she's cute with Gunnar, I like Gunnar with Scarlett and that relationship crashed and burned too quickly. It still has some story to tell.

 

I'm also curious if the actress playing Zoe is sticking around. With the introduction of Kylie, not to mention Gunnar's tender looks at Scarlett, why keep her around. Does anyone want to watch that story play out?

 

I loved when Maddie turned to Deacon and said "I love you Dad." I teared up.

 

This seemed to be an episode about women running after men who either don't want or deserve them. Rayna ran after Luke (and I will not be happy if this season is all about Rayna appeasing Luke after a hissy fit. The man is poison.), Zoe ran after Gunnar and agreed to move in with him though she knows he doesn't love her, the new band member ran after Deacon and that was not an attractive thing to watch, and that woman in the bar came onto Teddy, which probably wouldn't have caught my attention if the other women on the show hadn't been so pathetic. To some extent, Juliette ran after Avery, but she had good reason for it. And I'm not sure what I'd call what Layla was doing, but it added to not making the women look good.

 

Still, I enjoyed the episode and feel a bit more hopeful about the season's future.

 

PS: This has to be the funniest thing I've read all day. Thanks CofCinci!

Deacon's new love interest: "Buy a girl a cup of coffee?"  Buy your own coffee with your senior citizen discount, casting fail/new character no one wanted.  She looks like a meth-addict prostitute from Sons of Anarchy.  Why do they even bother with pairing Deacon with anyone?  We all know that Raycon is endgame short of Chip Esten pulling an Isaiah Washington, Columbus Short, Gary Dourdan, Michelle Rodriguez or Henry Ian Cusick (double offender).  Deacon should just go into monk mode until he rescues Rayna from Luke, who is obvious going to "pop" her in the mouth or tie her to the train tracks or whatever villainous shit they have planned for him.

Edited October 10, 2014 by slade3

[rubyred]

Unless Kylie has some secret musical ambition/talent I can't see her as a real spoiler for the inevitable Scarlett/Gunnar redux. But if Zoe doesn't find another potential love interest stat, I can't see her staying on the show. Avery is for Juliette and Will is for the D...there's no one left. Teddy/Zoe? Jeff Fordham/Zoe? Hard to picture. This is a soap, after all, and it's not like she has anything else tying her to Nashville, like family.

 

Hey um, was that blonde who flirted with Teddy -- was she a call girl? He was so clumsy in that interaction I wasn't sure what was going on.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Charlotte Ross is only 46?! Boy, I feel like she's been around forever, but then again, maybe I'm just dating myself. ;)

To be fair, she has been acting for almost 30 years so she has been on your tv for a long time! She was still a teenager when she started on Day of Our Lives and only 24 when she was on The Heights (which was over twenty years ago, holy crap!). In real life she is three years younger than the actor who plays Deacon so she is totally age appropriate for him, so I would love for her to come back on Nashville. The one really positive thing I can say about Pam so far is that at least she isn't some 20 something girl or an obvious groupie (although she may turn out to be all kinds of crazy since this is a soap opera, after all!). The other thing I like about her so far is that she has been direct and honest (again I say so far since you never know what will happen down the line). She was forthright about introducing herself to Deacon, admitting she knew who he was, and inviting him to hang out. Later she really gave him some truth about him being stupid or crazy. I prefer this kind of communication to the coy game we often see younger women use on tv.

[Clemgo3165]

That little smile she got when Deacon stormed off to the stage after his argument with Luke made me a little leery. Seen some theories that she's a Luke plant, and I could buy that. Though she's been sold as his muse - which seems weird given the photos that have been out there. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Scarlett dragging Maddie out of the party - and the cousins bonding - was sweet.

Avery is a mess, but I am liking his return to edgier music.

Rayna and Luke ... Zzz. Luke is a jackass. And his song for Rayna was terrible.

Gunnar and Zoey...zzzz. Deacon and annoying backup singer ....zzzzz. Teddy and his lonely pathetic self ... Zzzz.

Shut up, crazy Layla! I'm afraid for how all of this is going to go down for poor Will.

Why is Juliette still hiding her pregnancy from her manager, now that she knows it's not evil Jeff's?

I do like when she turns to Rayna for advice, though.

Edited October 10, 2014 by SlovakPrincess

[fib]

Why is Juliette still hiding her pregnancy from her manager, now that she knows it's not evil Jeff's?

Probably because she wants to tell Avery about the baby and let him be a part of any decision before it starts being a PR issue and starts being 'managed'.  Probably because she's still on the fence on what to do, and the less people involved in that decision the better.  Perhaps because she's afraid he'd quit?

[SlovakPrincess]

Ah, good points, fib.

But I don't think he'd quit. He showed how much he cared about her when her mom died. Like he said, he considers himself her "family". But she snapped at him that he's her employee - which made me kind of sad.

[Madding crowd]

This episode should have been titled: New gal for every guy. It seemed kind of silly, especially with Gunnar who already has Zoe and Scarlett. Luke continues to be annoying but so far he really hasn't done anything horrid. People disagree with things all the time and yes sometimes people have to suck it up and compromise. I remain confident Rayna will come to her senses.

 

I don't agree with the idea that Rayna's girls should dictate how, where and when her proposal should have taken place. Divorced parents have an obligation to choose someone who will be loving to their kids and introduce them before an engagement takes place, but no child should decide when, where or how their parent gets married. Luke has been around Maddie and Daphne for awhile and he appears to care about them. We are also seeing things about him that may not yet be apparent to Rayna, but will come out. Also don't think she needs to bend over backwards for Deacon. Most people don't give a second thought to their exes when they date/remarry.

 

I also don't like the trend in shows now (Looking at Grey's Anatomy) where someone seeks out a birth parent and the person (or in this case Rayna) is vilified for making a good choice. Women have the right to control their own body whether that means the right to terminate a pregnancy, give a child up for adoption or choose to marry a kind, stable man and make him the legal father or her child. She also doesn't have to go around explaining and apologizing to people about her choice. She probably should have told Deacon, but perhaps she didn't want to be pressured into having an abortion or marrying a violent alcoholic. I just don't like the idea that Teddy is no longer the real parent, when he is the one who raised Maddie and loved her all her life. There also are many cases in real life, where birth parents prove to be incapable of love, don't want contact, or prove to have good reasons for not raising their child. 

 

I like Juliette too and feel that her story has to evolve organically and I can't count how many times things go wrong for her versus Rayna; people are all different and have different things happen to them. Individual choices factor in a great deal too. None of us are promised a specific set of circumstances and I don't need to see that played out on TV. I'm sure Avery will come around and he and Juliette will end up together. 

 

I also laughed at the idea that Scarlett could write about having fun. I love her voice, love her and Gunnar as singer-songwriters together, but no one could call her fun. Layla and Zoe continue to be boring, but at least Layla is getting some guts. WIsh they could should Gunnar and WIll as friends more.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Madding crowd

[rachel1496]

I disagree. There was every reason for her to talk to Deacon. For him to have told Maddie that he proposed and Rayna turned him down? Really? He thought that was good parenting? "It's not my fault, it's all your mother's fault. You could have the pretty princess life you deserve if only your mother weren't so wrong." That's basically what he was saying. He was throwing Rayna under the bus in order to make sure that Maddie wasn't angry with him. And this is not the first time that Deacon has told Maddie something meant only for the adults to know.

It pains me to say this because I adore Deacon and have barely tolerated Rayna from the start but I agree.  Leaving aside the Luke issue for a minute, it's been pretty clear that since the accident Rayna doesn't completely trust his sobriety.  She still likes him, they can get along great when they have to and they could probably make it work but marrying the guy when there's a part of you always waiting for that other shoe to drop is a terrible idea.  Deacon's not fighting fair here, he knows why Rayna said no and he knows that Maddie doesn't (and probably never will) know the not-so-pretty details of what happened back when he was drinking regularly.  He can tell Maddie that he proposed and leave out the rest and he knows Rayna won't spill either. 

 

I want to have sympathy for Will because Layla is straight up crazypants but he was the one that pushed for marriage knowing full well he was using her.

Is the actress who plays Kylie 4ft tall or are Zoe and Gunner giants?  They were both towering over her to a hilarious degree.

[izabella]

I'm feeling sad for Teddy these days, and I'm conflicted because I did not like him at all from the start, and then it got even worse.  But now, he's coming across as the most stable and consistent parent out of all these people.  I hope Maddie remembers at some point that, for better or worse, Teddy was always there for her over the years while she was growing up. 

 

And then poor Teddy fumbling his way at the bar, not even able to muster up a mild flirtation.  Getting back into the dating pool is hard, y'all!

[hqtextbook]

What do you guys think those 500 pills Juliette spilled in the first scene were? 

[jazzpno]

I assumed that they were breath mints under the circumstances. Also LOL at Juliette trying to pick them up. I spilled a canister of mini-Altoids in my car...you'll never get 'em all!

[bybrandy]

Based on the box I thought Altoids to cover her breath but maybe a mix of Alford's and prenatals all hidden in a convenient Altoid.

[hqtextbook]

Word. that makes a lot of sense. I also really appreciate how on this show they are realistic about people looking like hell when they should. Most shows make the actors look glamerous 100% of the time. But on nashville they actually do makeup-less (or at least less) scenes when Juliette should look like a mess. Which is awesome. 

[missbonnie]

I have only one real quick comment, out of all the actresses on the planet the one they pick to be Deacon's new love interest or f-buddy is an amazon who isn't even marginally attractive?

[shron17]

I love Deacon also, but have to say he's brought on all of these problems by proposing to Rayna after she accepted Luke's proposal.  What did he think was going to happen?  Rayna's being criticized for not being sensitive to his feelings, but did he do that for her?  They had both agreed they needed to move on and were doing that in relationships with other people.  Nothing happened to change that, and there was nothing to indicate Rayna thought it should change.  Sure, they had a couple of nice conversations about their daughter and about their past but that was as far as it went. The fact that she still has feelings for Deacon doesn't mean she shouldn't be moving on with someone else, if that's what she wants.  I hated the public proposal and agree that Rayna could have handled her engagement better with her kids.  But Maddie was way out of line when she called Deacon pathetic for not trying harder, and he should have called her on that instead of telling her he proposed.  As a newer dad, he doesn't want to get on her bad side but he didn't do either of them any favors in that conversation.  Even though I know this probably isn't what Rayna really wants and things will likely change, I still defend her right to make her own decision, without flack from exes and/or daughters.  In my opinion she hasn't done anything for which she needs to apologize or redeem herself.  And as far as not getting Luke to let Deacon off of the tour, isn't it possible as far as Rayna knows that's Deacon's choice?  I mean, why would Luke tell her that?

 

On another note, I really love the look of horror on Sadie's face when Jeff's implying her career is up and coming while Rayna's over the hill.  I have a feeling his particular type of charm is wearing a little thin on her.

 

See...I think Deacon tries to talk her into doing the things he knows she she really wants, and that's borne from their having such an intimate relationship for so long. If Rayna really wanted Deacon to back off, if she really loved Luke only and was thrilled to be his wife, all she'd have to do is tell Deacon, "I am not in love with you anymore. I don't feel it, and I don't want it." And then she could MOVE AWAY FROM HIM when he touches her. She doesn't do any of that, though, so we (and he) know she's lying.

 

But how can Deacon be so sure he still knows what she really wants?  Their relationship is in the past, a fact Rayna reminded him of when he came to her when Lamar died.  All of the things she found out right before his death can't help but have long-lasting, if not lifelong, effects on Rayna.  So what Deacon's really doing is trying to talk her into doing the things he thinks she still wants.  As much as I loved seeing Deacon propose, it was every bit as manipulative as what Luke did.  Compare it to when Rayna went to Deacon in season 1--she knocked and didn't walk in uninvited, asked if he was alone, told him her feelings but didn't tell him how he felt, and didn't touch or kiss him until he approached her.  Not to mention she was motivated by his admission that he couldn't move on from her vs. his motivation of her acceptance of Luke's proposal.

 

Edited again to add I really do think Rayna and Deacon will eventually work things out and be back together.  I don't see their relationship as toxic but I do think it needs to go through a metamorphosis from the intensity and desperation their feelings caused both of them when they were together in s1.  I think that's what Rayna's trying to move away from, a relationship that unsettles her to the degree that she would cause an accident that hurt them both so badly, or one like her parents had where he chased her down in the car because he couldn't bear for her to leave.  Highly intense, romantic relationships bring out the warm, fuzzy feelings but aren't all they're cracked up to be. Rayna and Deacon both just need to discover they can live happy, healthy lives apart but make the choice to be together because they enjoy life more that way. And then they can write a song about it.

Edited October 11, 2014 by shron17

[madam magpie]

But how can Deacon be so sure he still knows what she really wants?

Because of how Rayna behaves. We all know what Rayna wants because of that. I don't think Deacon proposing to her was manipulative at all. After nearly a year off wistful glances and longing looks, which Deacon already knew they'd spent her marriage to Teddy doing, he went to her privately, told her how he felt, pushed a little, and bam, Rayna dissolved into a blubbering, kissing mess. If she didn't like that he touched her, all she had to do was move. If she didn't want that ring, all she had to do was say no and give it back. How she reacted to him in the kitchen was a glaring sign that she was not ready or really even wanting to marry someone else. Ditto the way she reacted when she came to his house the next day. And then when, despite all that, she didn't show up at the Bluebird, he dropped it with her and hasn't mentioned it since. Plus, he told Maddie they had to respect Rayna's choices. These are two people who've been something important to each other for almost 30 years. The nature of their relationship says. "It's OK to tell each other the truth." And they owe each other the truth, even if Rayna just keeps lying.

I do agree that an actual proposal was a bizarre choice. It seemed to come out of nowhere since they were still in such a fragile place, and it shows a really immature understanding of what you need to do to make a relationship work. I wish it had been more of a plea not to cut them off prematurely again, something about how it's clear they still love each other very much and it's a mistake to marry someone else and try to cover that up again and they really need to actually put in some work together to repair their relationship. If they end up just as very good friends and parents, OK, but there's no way of knowing that right now. But this is a soap opera, and maturity is for the birds, it seems. I think Callie and Co. find sweeping marriage proposals more romantic than honesty and being a grown-up so that's what they chose to have Deacon do.

As for Rayna's sensitivity or lack there of, you never HAVE to be sensitive to other people's feelings, but it says something about you if you are or aren't. Maybe she doesn't know Luke is forcing Deacon to keep the contract, but it's strange to me that she hasn't asked anyone how it's going or why these men would continue this business relationship given the circumstances. It's also strange that she didn't even wonder how telling Luke about Deacon's proposal would affect their business relationship. Plus ,she does know that Deacon's there on the tour and hurting, and doesn't need to flash her publicity stunt "surprise show up/make up" with Luke. She did that on purpose. You don't purposely hurt the people you once loved, I don't think, especially if you're truly the happy one who's moved on. That's a bitchy, petty move. And the intent is the main difference between Deacon and Rayna's recent choices. Deacon didn't intentionally hurt Rayna by telling Maddie about the proposal, though he did hurt her unintentionally. But Rayna is hurting Deacon on purpose to make her point. That's worse. But still, everyone does petty things sometimes. If the writers would allow Rayna the self-awareness to own up to the hurt she's caused and stop doing it, I could forgive her. I think she does what she does because she's deeply sad and very scared. But I've come to the belief that the people creating this show see Rayna as in the right, and boy...I absolutely do not.

[Midru]

Rayna going to Deacon's house was the height of arrogance. Rayna ain't no saint. She's made countless parenting mistakes, several recently. She rarely if ever gets called on these mistakes or acknowledges she is ever wrong. So for her to go over there with the sole purpose of upbraiding him was terribly self-righteous and hypocritical. Deacon may or may not be right, but his revelation to Maddie was at least defensible. Over and over again Rayna judges people for mistakes she makes. She wants everything her way all the time. And the problem is the show acts like she is right. 

 

And let's remember the last time they had a parenting disagreement, around keeping secrets, about Maddie, Rayna had been hiding Maddie's paternity and denying him his paternal rights with no plans to ever tell him. So if I were Deacon I'd be like "to hell with you and all your secrets!" As has been mentioned before, she has no business telling anyone how to do anything. 

 

And Deacon's revelation was defensible, if not wise. I can totally buy the idea that his daughter, at this moment in her life, needed to know that her bio dad was fighting for her. Regardless, he was within his rights and within the boundaries of sound judgement and Rayna has become a self-righteous beyoch who I don't like anymore. 

Edited October 11, 2014 by Midru

[shron17]

Because of how Rayna behaves. We all know what Rayna wants because of that.

 

You mean he thinks he knows what she wants because of his perception of her behavior?  And we think we know based our perception of how she acts as well.  That doesn't make it a fact.

 

he went to her privately, told her how he felt, pushed a little, and bam, Rayna dissolved into a blubbering, kissing mess.

 

He walked into her house and started talking to her about things she clearly did not want to discuss with him.  She did say no several times before she gave up.  Deacon was not only determined to have his say but was also determined to get an emotional reaction from Rayna.  It was impulsive, immature and unfair and in the long run only hurt both of them.  Since Deacon's often been shown as impulsive and emotional where Rayna's concerned, I wouldn't blame it on the writers. Rayna's relationship with Deacon was in the past and she wasn't obligated to prove to him or anyone else that she really wanted to marry Luke. In fact, he didn't even respect her and/or her relationship with Luke enough to ask her how she felt.

 

it shows a really immature understanding of what you need to do to make a relationship work.

 

See, I think this is Deacon's main drawback for now--he has no idea how to make a relationship work in the long-term because he's never done it before.  This colors a lot of his behavior with both Rayna and Maddie.  E.g. he hasn't been a dad long enough to see how certain things you do or say with your kids pop up later, in both good and bad ways.

 

 

Deacon didn't intentionally hurt Rayna by telling Maddie about the proposal, though he did hurt her unintentionally. But Rayna is hurting Deacon on purpose to make her point. That's worse.

 

I don't think it's quite that cut and dried.  Rayna told Luke about Deacon's proposal because she felt more of an obligation to the man who's proposal she just accepted, as she should.  I think whether or not she told him was completely up to her and respect the fact that she didn't want a lie between them.  Luke and Deacon's business relationship is between them and doesn't have anything to do with Rayna; I think she's wise to stay out of it.

 

And Deacon's revelation was defensible, if not wise. I can totally buy the idea that his daughter, at this moment in her life, needed to know that her bio dad was fighting for her. Regardless, he was within his rights and within the boundaries of sound judgement

 

Deacon was fighting for Rayna, not Maddie.  All of the relationships Maddie's parents have with each other are separate from her relationship with each of them and she shouldn't be given any say in their relationships with each other.  Deacon stepped over a boundary in that conversation both by allowing Maddie to tell him he's pathetic for not trying harder and for telling her about the proposal, one that will eventually cause him trouble with Maddie as well as Rayna and Luke.

 

The song Luke wrote for Rayna was truly awful, and makes me think their musical differences will play a central role in the disintegration of their relationship.

Edited October 11, 2014 by shron17

[Bort]

I also laughed at the idea that Scarlett could write about having fun. I love her voice, love her and Gunnar as singer-songwriters together, but no one could call her fun.

Scarlett is fun when she gets good and liquored up. Maybe she should try writing while she's on a bender.

[Sutton]

I've try to put thoughts down on my feelings about this episode (Series, I get to emotional) but MM - Midru both of you perfectly said. Thanks for sticking, defending or just telling the truth about why Deacon answered Maddie the way he did. She was so distraught and watching her hurting so much, he felt he needed to at least try to help by telling her he did propose but Rayna said no. It broke my heart watching him hurt so much and then pleading with Maddie to open the door to talk and when she did he was calm holding her close comforting her as a loving dad should be doing. What Maddie needs more than anything is being told the truth. If Rayna wants to tell her why she didn't choose Deacon then for heaven sake sit down and tell her. Don't have to go into detail parts of Deacon's drinking but at least let her know why and tell her your not IN LOVE with him anymore. That part she won't be able to do. Rayna just keeps on lying to herself and everyone else. What happened to hysterical Rayna telling everyone "The lying has to stop".

[madam magpie]

You mean he thinks he knows what she wants because of his perception of her behavior?  And we think we know based our perception of how she acts as well.  That doesn't make it a fact.

 

I believe it does, yes. For me, what someone does is a lot more telling than what he or she says. Human beings over the age of about ten are notoriously bad at communicating what they want. Even toddlers will shut down under certain circumstances. But their behavior will often tell you what's true, even if they never act on it and continue the pretense. Why would Rayna give up if what she really wanted was for Deacon to let her go so she could marry her great love Luke Wheeler? If that's what Rayna truly wanted, Deacon being a little pushy one night wouldn't deter her because this is her life and marriage we're talking about, not where to go for dinner. I think the important question is, why is she so easily talked into kissing Deacon in her kitchen? People who are over it and moving on don't do that. Maybe she and Deacon shouldn't be anything but friends, maybe that's what she really wants and she wants them to work toward that place. If that's the truth, she needs to keep saying it and moving away when he tries to change her mind. But she sure as hell isn't there right now. I mean, what do you think? Does Rayna's behavior tell you she's over Deacon and completely in love with and committed to Luke Wheeler?

 

I don't think it's quite that cut and dried.  Rayna told Luke about Deacon's proposal because she felt more of an obligation to the man who's proposal she just accepted, as she should.  I think whether or not she told him was completely up to her and respect the fact that she didn't want a lie between them.  Luke and Deacon's business relationship is between them and doesn't have anything to do with Rayna's relationship with either man; I think she's wise to stay out of it.

 

I think Rayna's primary obligation is to her children, not Luke or Deacon. And staying out of the guys' contentious relationship does nothing but create tension and confusion. Just like with Teddy and Deacon, it's Rayna's responsibility to build the bridge. If Luke is going to be Rayna's husband, he is going to have to treat Deacon with respect because Deacon is Maddie's father. (He needs to do the same with Teddy, but poor, sad Teddy doesn't seem to bother anyone these days.) The fact that Rayna doesn't seem to notice or care about the potential effects all her screwy relationship choices have on her kids is telling. If Luke and Deacon spend the next however many months at each other's throats as the kids come and go, who will that harm? I'm not sure Rayna should have told Luke about the proposal because she didn't actually tell him the whole truth. She left out what she did (convenient) and gave the impression that Deacon was pushing himself on poor, unsuspecting Rayna. She's stringing both of these men along with half-truths. That's OK for the sake of drama in small doses, but it's not the behavior of a heroic, well adjusted person.

 

Deacon was fighting for Rayna, not Maddie.

 

Deacon was fighting for all of them and the family he believes they should be together. He basically told Rayna that when she came over to scold him--he wanted Maddie to know he had tried. Maddie has independent relationships with all her parents, sure, but she isn't separate from any of them. Her entire identity and life are completely wrapped up in and controlled by her parents' messed up relationships. She and Deacon apparently see one solution; Rayna sees another. OK. But Rayna's solution makes Deacon and Maddie sad. Deacon wanted Maddie to know he'd fought for their preferred solution; he's her dad, on some level it's his job to fight for what she needs and wants. I don't think that makes him a bad guy, even if poor Rayna gets her feelings hurt a little or has to cope with an angry, upset daughter as a result. This isn't all about making Rayna happy, though I realize that's kind of the message the show is sending us at the moment.

 

The song Luke wrote for Rayna was truly awful, and makes me think their musical differences will play a central role in the disintegration of their relationship.

 

Here's hoping, though Rayna seemed to dig it. I do wonder if Luke will start driving a truck with a gun rack and Confederate flag in the coming weeks. That seems to be the only redneck country stereotype he hasn't embraced yet.

Edited October 11, 2014 by madam magpie

[Clemgo3165]

I couldn't even bring myself to listen to it. I really despise Luke Wheeler and her running across the country to apologize when she had nothing to apologize for made me ill. The writers are really edging close to the point where I write Rayna off entirely. She may be scared and sad and all of those things, but she's lying to herself and hurting the family she claims to love. And her lack of any compassion and warmth with Deacon and outright sneering at her daughter's concerns makes her seem like she's been replaced by an alien. I hated the way she called Deacon on the carpet for telling Maddie about the proposal, it was like he was a puppy and she was rubbing his nose in it. And don't get me started on her hypocrisy in that moment.

 

And dang, but I think the writers really do think that Luke is all that and a bag of chips and who wouldn't be starry-eyed at his dreaminess??? Such chemistry between them, isn't it awesome??!!! I have no idea how this is going to be resolved, but if she doesn't apologize to Maddie, Daphne, Teddy and Deacon, I'm pointing my clicker at the "off" button.

[DollEyes]

Observations:

 

  I'm among those who think that Rayna's relationship with Luke is emotionally abusive, she refuses to admit it and the girls are suffering because of it. The Rayna James I knew and hearted back in the day always put her daughters first or tried to and now she's not even trying anymore, because of Luke. First, the public marriage proposal, then talking Rayna into going on tour for a year in which she'll rarely, if ever, get to see the girls, then the guilt trip on Rayna for confronting Deacon in person about how he told Maddie about Rayna's marrying Luke, then all the bullshit about the wedding date and now touring together. As if all those things weren't bad omens where Rayna and Luke were concerned, then Luke's getting Rayna's name tattooed on his arm is. IMO, the only names that should be tattooed on someone are parents, kids and pets. That Luke would do something that stupid is just another reason why his relationship with Rayna is a big mistake. As for the way Rayna's handled things with Deacon where Luke is concerned, more stupidity, whether it's agreeing to marry the wrong man for the wrong reasons without consulting her daughters, blaming Deacon for telling Maddie about his own proposal to her or her "surprise" visit to Luke and the cringe-worthy serenade that came with it. Rayna's not obligated to protect Deacon's feelings, but she is obligated to protect her daughters' feelings, especially Maddie's and Rayna has epically failed on that score. Once Rayna ends it with Luke, as she inevitably will and definitely should, she's got some serious work to do on herself and some serious apologies to make to the girls and to Deacon.  Regarding Juliette's turning to Rayna for help re her pregnancy, the best advice Rayna could give Juliette is to not make the same mistake with Avery that Rayna did with Deacon, re keeping Avery's being a father a secret from him.

 

  Speaking of Deacon, this wasn't his week. Dealing with leaving Maddie and Rayna's crazy was bad enough, but Luke's bullshit on top of it was too much, whether it was his cutting Deacon's set down to just 15 minutes without even letting him perform his own songs, his flaunting his engagement to Rayna every chance he gets or his throwing shade at Deacon about telling Maddie about proposing to Rayna,  which was the last straw for Deacon and rightfully so. Luke may technically be Deacon's boss, but he's got no right to tell him how to raise Maddie  because he hasn't been in Rayna and/or Maddie's lives long enough for that privilege, unlike Teddy. What's more, I think that Luke could be just the common enemy that Deacon and Teddy need to call a truce and join forces to get him out of the girls' lives and Rayna's once and for all. About Pam, Luke's backup singer/Deacon's booty call, damn! From the looks of her, Pam's been rode hard and put away drowned. As for Pam's dissing Deacon for being in love with a woman who chose someone else, sleeping with Deacon anyway despite that proves that she's no rocket scientist either.  Re Deacon's proposing to Rayna, the timing may have been wrong, but the proposal wasn't, IMO. Unlike Luke, Deacon proposed in private, not in public, which I believe was a passive/aggressive attempt on Luke's part to control Rayna and humiliate her if she refused, which was much more manipulative than Deacon's proposal, for my money. Deacon didn't tell Maddie about his proposal to Rayna to hurt Rayna on purpose, unlike her "surprise" visit to Luke, which she did to punish Deacon, which was cruel, something the "real" Rayna would never be to the people she loves and I believe she still loves Deacon no matter what she tells herself, Deacon or Luke. If/when Rayna dumps Luke and wants Deacon back, Deacon should make her work for it.

 

  Scarlett and Maddie were not only sweet together, Scarlett proved that she's not only a great songwriter, she's a great caregiver, whether it's Maddie, Deacon, Avery or Gunnar. Speaking of Gunnar, I've never believed that he and Zoe were right for each other and Zoe's constant insecurities where women are concerned is another reason why. Despite Gunnar's insistence that he'll be honest with Zoe about the women in his life, past and present, from now on, chances are she'll always be paranoid, she'll never totally trust him and they'll break up, which is just fine with me.

 

  About Will/Layla/Jeff, still not feeling sorry for Layla. The marriage may have technically been Will's idea, but Layla agreed for the wrong reasons, just like Will did. Layla's such a pain in the ass that not even blackmailing Jeff could make me care about her. Jeff could get Layla a new record deal, but he can't make the audience love her. Instead of bullying Jeff to get her a gold record, Layla should want Jeff to help her make a great one. Hell, I hate Layla and Jeff so much that I hope they end up killing each other, whether they fuck first or not.

 

  About Juliette and Avery, Juliette should definitely tell Avery the truth about her pregnancy, which should stop Avery's downward spiral. Glenn and Emily shouldn't have invaded Juliette's privacy, but they were worried about her and were trying to help her, so I think she should confide in them and apologize to them, after she tells Avery.

Edited October 12, 2014 by DollEyes

[MisterS]

Hahaha it makes me laugh so much that what the writers call the amazing "chemistry" (jeeez) between Will Chase and Connie Britton is coming over to their audience as portraying an emotionally abusive relationship. Wtf? They so need to get their main characters back on line. I miss season 1!

Though just to add, I'm starting to think maybe that IS what they are trying to portray? Otherwise why would they have Rayna acting so weird e.g. Ignoring her children, flying a private jet across the country to see Luke after he put the phone down on her, surprising Luke on stage and completely ignoring Deacon? And being into that cheesy song? I live in hope that it isn't just down to awful writing!

Edited October 11, 2014 by MisterS

[shron17]

For me, what someone does is a lot more telling than what he or she says.

 

I mean, what do you think? Does Rayna's behavior tell you she's over Deacon and completely in love with and committed to Luke Wheeler?

I think Rayna is trying her hardest right now to be in love and committed to Luke.  I think the fact that two people have sexual chemistry doesn’t mean they should be together.  Sure, what people do can be telling but that doesn’t mean you can make assumptions and totally ignore what they say either.  We are all sometimes very good at seeing what we want to see in others' behavior and misinterpreting their feelings.  I think Rayna’s doing the best she can even though it’s likely not going to work out in the end.  I think the writers are doing a good enough job overall for me to continue watching and see how the stories play out. 

 

I think Rayna's primary obligation is to her children, not Luke or Deacon.

Of course it is, but her obligation to her children is different than one to a fiancée and wouldn’t require telling them about a proposal she received.

 

And staying out of the guys' contentious relationship does nothing but create tension and confusion. Just like with Teddy and Deacon, it's Rayna's responsibility to build the bridge.

The big difference is that Teddy and Deacon only have a relationship because of Rayna; Luke and Deacon have known each other for years.  I can’t remember if Deacon knew Luke and Rayna were together when he signed on with his tour but Deacon was with Megan.  During the proposal episode Deacon and Luke treated each other respectfully in front of Rayna and she hasn’t been around for their interactions since then.  If she sees a problem, I’m sure she’ll do her best to handle it.   

 

I'm not sure Rayna should have told Luke about the proposal because she didn't actually tell him the whole truth. She left out what she did (convenient) and gave the impression that Deacon was pushing himself on poor, unsuspecting Rayna. She's stringing both of these men along with half-truths. That's OK for the sake of drama in small doses, but it's not the behavior of a heroic, well adjusted person.

True, but heroic, well-adjusted characters aren’t nearly as much fun to watch!  I actually prefer watching imperfect characters on TV, makes them much more relatable.  Deacon did push himself on her in the sense he went to her that night without invitation and took her in his arms as she put her hands up to deflect him.  When Rayna told Luke he actually asked how she felt and said to let him know when she decided.  I don't see any stringing along or half truths in her behavior with either man.

 

Deacon wanted Maddie to know he'd fought for their preferred solution; he's her dad, on some level it's his job to fight for what she needs and wants. I don't think that makes him a bad guy, even if poor Rayna gets her feelings hurt a little or has to cope with an angry, upset daughter as a result. This isn't all about making Rayna happy, though I realize that's kind of the message the show is sending us at the moment.

Well, I actually think when it comes to choosing a spouse it is all about making that person happy (e.g. Rayna needs to choose a spouse in terms of what will make her happy, not Maddie or Deacon or anyone else).  It has to be; Rayna’s vowing to live with this person for the rest of her life, not just until Maddie and Daphne grow up.  Are you saying in his quest to give his daughter “what she needs and wants” Deacon has no choice but to propose to her mother?  Or that Rayna and Teddy should have stayed together if that was what their daughters needed and wanted?  Because I’m having trouble seeing where you would draw that line.  When a parent gets married they have an obligation to provide a happy, comfortable and safe home environment for their children.  But you don’t give your children a say in who your life partner is anymore than they’re obligated to give you one once they turn 18. 

 

Here's hoping, though Rayna seemed to dig it.

Being up on stage in front of how many thousands of people, Rayna would almost have to look like she’s digging it.  Though I’m sure the fact that their relationship is in that lovey-dovey we’re-getting-married phase played into her feelings as well.  Here’s hoping she will figure it out sooner rather than later.

Edited October 11, 2014 by shron17

[TVFAN]

The best soaps (and let's be honest Nashville is a soap) have always involved situations in which the characters were not put in silos--they interact with lots of other characters, not just one or two.  Seeing people in lots of different situations is how you build a character-driven drama.  Nashville has improved, but it still has way too many silos.  

 

Teddy is a great example.  He interacts with Rayna, the girls, and Deacon, but that's about it.  What if Teddy started dating Juliette's assistant, Emily?  She too is in a silo. I know she is just a minor character for now, but I'd like to know more about her.  Putting Teddy and Emily together would give him the opportunity to interact with Juliette, Avery, etc, and would bring Emily over to the Rayna side of the canvas.  Instead of adding new characters with no connection to anyone, I would like to see the show more fully develop its existing characters.  That doesn't mean you can't have a new character or two.   But I bet you could name lots of different characters on the show who should cross paths.

[madam magpie]

True, but heroic, well-adjusted characters aren’t nearly as much fun to watch!  I actually prefer watching imperfect characters on TV, makes them much more relatable.

 

Of course that's true. Most people feel that way. It doesn't make the character right, however. My beef isn't that Rayna's imperfect. She was incredibly flawed back in season one and I loved her both for and in spite of it. The problem is that she's being presented as heroic and in the right now, when she's so clearly not either of those things, and her imperfections have gotten painfully worse when a good narrative structure dictates that she should be improving by now. This isn't life, it's a story, and if your main character does nothing but devolve over 2+ years, she will alienate much of the audience. I'll be happy to be wrong if the writers actually make Rayna own up to her behavior. Over the last episode or two of season two and these three episodes of season three, it looks to me like they're saying Rayna is right, Deacon is wrong, and Maddie needs to shape up. I hope they change course.

 

Well, I actually think when it comes to choosing a spouse it is all about making that person happy.  It has to be; Rayna’s vowing to live with this person for the rest of her life, not just until Maddie and Daphne grow up.

 

That's not what I meant. I meant that this story isn't all about making Rayna happy. Deacon has an obligation to Maddie. (So does Rayna, but she's mostly crap at it right now.) His focus isn't just on making Rayna happy; he told Maddie about the proposal because he felt he owed it to his kid to let her know that he did the best he could to get her what she (and he) wanted. And I suspect he also wanted Maddie to know he tried so that she'd trust him going forward. If Maddie knows Deacon is on her side, even if he failed, she's more likely to trust him. The fact that Deacon telling Maddie made things hard for Rayna is unfortunate, but this isn't all about Rayna. There are other people involved who need and want different things than she does, and they are just as valid.

 

But as far as marriage goes, no, I don't think the obligation in marriage is necessarily to make the other person happy; being kind to the people you love is just a normal way to behave. And I do think that if you remarry, you have a responsibilty to choose a partner that meshes with the children you already have. They have no say or choice in the life you force them to live because of what you drag them into, and that is completely unfair. Yes, they're kids and young and have no real rights, but that doesn't mean they lack importance or the right to agency. I'm not of the mindset that children are simply to follow and obey. I think the obligation in a marriage the commitment to navigate the landscape of life as best you can honestly and together. Maybe you're right and Rayna's doing her best with Luke, Deacon, and the girls, but her best is pretty lousy if that's the case. It's also totally contradictory to her best in season one. And if this is her best, she's not a very good main character for a story because much of the audience is going to hate her. But hey, maybe that's what the writers want. I have no idea.

Edited October 11, 2014 by madam magpie

[Sutton]

That has always been my question since season 2 and now 3. Why in the world would you want your audience hating your main character (Rayna) so much that if and when she realizes LW isn't the kind of guy she thought he was, or the relationship isn't what she really wants, she will be so hated by the audience that they won't come back liking her ever. I thought the goal of a series to make it very successful, is to have great characters that the audience loves, great stories and keep it on the air long enough, more than 3 years, that's where the money is keeping it on for reruns. (Need at least 100 episodes) Maybe that's what the writers have in mind taking Rayna right up to the edge of the cliff (Callie) but not going over it. If that's the case it will take the second half of season 3 or even part of season 4 (if they get a season 4) to redeem herself fully to the audience.

 

Her attitude towards Deacon is so out of character even when they weren't speaking she always had compassion for him ( when in season 1 meeting him at the park to tell him she had to cut him loose from her band) never cruel. I hope this bites her in the a s when she shows up at Deacon's door to tell him she isn't going to marry LW, as hard as it will be for him, he says sorry he can't go throught it again after what she's done. (Me dreaming probably) I don't know, I can't believe Callie and Co would just throw everything away for some 2 bit stage guy with no personality, no sex appeal in the character and most times condescending attitude.

 

They have to have Juliette tell Avery because IMO that's the advice Rayna will give her. Tell him right from the beginning. Maybe that's when Rayna will wake up remembering what happened to her and how things would have been so different if she had told Deacon. (Remmbering the bridge scene, What would you change, Nothing, Everything) wake up call for Rayna.

[rubyred]

So interesting reading all the discussion about Rayna's motivations. I'm still of the opinion that she is on autopilot and trying to fortify herself against Deacon. In fact the biggest thing Luke has going for him is that he's NotDeacon. She knows how much Deacon loves her, but their past is something she keeps trying to move beyond, and I think part of the reason she's chosen Luke so publicly is to keep Deacon at bay.

 

Obviously that didn't work. But AFAWK Deacon never pulled that proposal bit when she was married to Teddy. They may have eyefucked and may or may not have had an emotional affair (I do think she compartmentalized and did love Teddy for most of their marriage, too) but Deacon didn't cross that line then.

 

I'm not ready to pillory her for not coddling Deacon's feelings about her engagement to Luke. He proposed without any encouragement or buildup, so he's going to have to put on his big boy pants when she refuses. And up til now it seems like he's kept his actual antagonism for Luke on the down low, so she may not know details about Luke's pissy insistence that he honor his contract. She has made a point, in the past, of not getting involved in Luke's business decisions so that rings true to me. Now, if/when they start touring together she's not going to be able to avoid figuring out what's going on.

 

On the other hand, her seeming obliviousness or disinterest in how this engagement has affected her girls is a big character misstep. She used to talk through everything with them, telling them about dating Deacon before going public, etc., and now she's getting engaged during an arena show? That's one of the reasons why I feel like something bigger is going on with her, because that was definitely not her pattern before and now she's like, whatever, the girls like Luke, la la la can't hear you.

 

What I would love most is for Rayna to kick Luke to the curb but also not hook up with Deacon right away. I think it's clear they're endgame and I'm all over that but she needs to figure some shit out and Deacon needs to, too. (I understand why he told Maddie about the proposal but that was a classic Cool Dad move and I don't know if he really understands how that undermines Rayna. He needs to really start feeling the heat about being a parent and see that it's not all guitar lessons and singalongs with an adoring Maddie.)

 

One thing that sucks is that unless Luke does something egregious Rayna is going to be the one to take a hit when they break up. I know people chafe at her being held up as such a paragon when she's made some damnfool decisions in her life but those are the aspects of her that humanize her to me. She's going along with this public circus right now but if Luke really "got" her he wouldn't push so hard and see her discomfort. She's basically had to open her personal life up to the press because of his antics, there was no putting the genie back in the bottle after that proposal.

 

The thing that worries me though is that now Rayna doesn't have a sounding board or support system. Tandy is gone, Bucky doesn't really fill that role. So I don't know how we're ever going to know what's going on in her head unless they start getting more inventive with the writing. And I don't mean Days of our Lives-style monologues, I mean interesting interactions with people other than Lukezzz. With Luke she's PodRayna.

[dcalley]

 

The thing that worries me though is that now Rayna doesn't have a sounding board or support system. Tandy is gone, Bucky doesn't really fill that role. So I don't know how we're ever going to know what's going on in her head unless they start getting more inventive with the writing. And I don't mean Days of our Lives-style monologues

Was Rayna on the phone with Tandy in the car at the end of this episode? I don't remember the other person saying a word, whoever it was. May as well have been a monologue.

[Midru]

Amazing how Rayna has been burning up the airwaves here while being, to me, one of my least favorite characters. But she's just so annoying!

 

Juliette is almost the opposite, she really doesn't deserve better than she gets but you like her so much you want that for her. Pushing Glen and Emily away made me sad because they've already proven themselves. And I so hope Avery gets it together and/or Juliette tells him about their tiny baby soon.

 

Hoping Scarlett and Gunnar reunite soon, at least musically. Though I would like them romantically back together soon as well. I can't believe it but Scarlett is definitely in the top half of characters for me now. Someone above was describing the right way to build a character and I feel that's what they've done with Scarlett. You know who she is. Other characters can count on her. And I hardly notice her clothes or hair anymore. 

 

Whereas with Rayna, Connie Britton's beauty, which I admit is inspirational, is all I like about Rayna anymore. 

 

I am with those who hope Layla and Jeff torture each other, and I don't want them too but they are both going to be torturing Will. Show really needs to write him a big hit called "American Man" or something stereotypically macho, so he can sing it while the scandal unfolds.

 

Gunnar's girl problems- I don't care about anyone but Scarlett. 

 

Anyone notice how Pam York was about the only witness to one of Deacon's arguments with Luke? My guess is she is key here. Maybe she knows some secrets from Luke's past? His last three wives all died mysteriously, with large insurance payouts?

Edited October 11, 2014 by Midru

[rachel1496]

Deacon wanted Maddie to know he'd fought for their preferred solution; he's her dad, on some level it's his job to fight for what she needs and wants. I don't think that makes him a bad guy, even if poor Rayna gets her feelings hurt a little or has to cope with an angry, upset daughter as a result. This isn't all about making Rayna happy, though I realize that's kind of the message the show is sending us at the moment.

At the same time, how would Mr "I was on the road" feel if Rayna sat down with Maddie and laid it all out on the table?  If she told her about how Deacon would regularly go missing for hours on end, about having to drag him from bars and skeezy motel rooms, about him raging out and smashing all her furniture, proposing to her and being too drunk to remember it the next day, about him being so drunk that he hit her?   Maddie has some pretty serious hero worship going on where Deacon is concerned and Rayna and Teddy, to thier credit, have done a pretty good job of letting Maddie get to know him as he is now and not who he was when they made the choice to have Teddy raise her.  They have allowed Deacon to give her as much information as he feels comfortable giving when he feels comfortable giving it.  It would be nice if he extended Rayna the same courtesy.

[madam magpie]

I've said it many times before: If Maddie asks, I think Rayna (and Deacon and Teddy) should tell her whatever she wants to know. That includes everything he did to Rayna. I think talking to her would do a tremendous amount of good for all of them because the more Maddie knows, the better she will understand why her mother did what she did and why Deacon and Rayna have the relationship they do. She's old enough to participate in that dialogue. Maddie asked Deacon straight up about fighting for Rayna. I think he had a responsibility to Maddie to tell her the truth that trumps any responsibility to Rayna. It's always better not to yell the truth at people, but it's also not the end of the world.

Midru: Juliette pushing Glenn and Emily away made me sad too! They seem to really care about her, and she's so awful to them sometimes. I wish she'd shape up in that department.

Edited October 12, 2014 by madam magpie

[shron17]

That's not what I meant. I meant that this story isn't all about making Rayna happy. Deacon has an obligation to Maddie. (So does Rayna, but she's mostly crap at it right now.) His focus isn't just on making Rayna happy; he told Maddie about the proposal because he felt he owed it to his kid to let her know that he did the best he could to get her what she (and he) wanted. And I suspect he also wanted Maddie to know he tried so that she'd trust him going forward. If Maddie knows Deacon is on her side, even if he failed, she's more likely to trust him. The fact that Deacon telling Maddie made things hard for Rayna is unfortunate, but this isn't all about Rayna. There are other people involved who need and want different things than she does, and they are just as valid.

 

And herein lies the problem.  Kids shouldn't have a say in who their parent(s) marry period.  They shouldn't know who proposed and who turned who down and they shouldn't be on anyone's side.  This is giving them a say.  It's not about Rayna or things being hard for her.  It is about each person/parent's right to make the best decision for themselves without their children weighing in and being for or against their choice.  Whether he meant to or not, Deacon is using the fact that Maddie wants what he wants in his favor.  Maddie shouldn't love or trust any of her parents based on who they want or don't want to marry, but because of who they are and how they treat her.

 

And I do think that if you remarry, you have a responsibility to choose a partner that meshes with the children you already have. They have no say or choice in the life you force them to live because of what you drag them into, and that is completely unfair. Yes, they're kids and young and have no real rights, but that doesn't mean they lack importance or the right to agency. I'm not of the mindset that children are simply to follow and obey.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this and have lived my own life this way.  But it's still up to the parent to make that final choice about their own life partner; it has to be.  You can't be a good parent being married to someone you've decided is wrong for you whether it's staying married to your child's father or marrying your ex.  At this point there's no obvious and telling reason why Luke couldn't "mesh" with Maddie and Daphne.  It seems to be more about the fact that Maddie just doesn't like him, probably mainly because he's not Deacon.

Edited October 12, 2014 by shron17

[madam magpie]

And herein lies the problem. Kids shouldn't have a say in who their parent(s) marry period.

I don't agree with that. If the kids are forced to live with the parent and her choice, I think they should absolutely get a say because it's not just the parent's life that will be affected. If I had a kid who was as miserable as Maddie is about this union, I would slow my roll to a crawl and figure out WHY. If it's just that Luke's not Deacon, that should be a fairly easy problem to work out. (I don't actually think that's the only reason, however.) If she never came around, I could wait three years until she no longer has to live in my house. I'd also talk to her about it extensively and often, rather than drop all kinds of life bombs on her and just let them blow up while I left for a year-long tour to make money and court fame that I don't need. And the especially irritating thing is that season one and early season two Rayna, who wouldn't even go to the CMAs with Deacon without talking to her kids about it first and who came to pick up a pitiful Maddie early from Teddy's wedding, likely would have slowed all this down and paid a lot of attention to her kid as well.

Edited October 12, 2014 by madam magpie

[shron17]

If I had a kid who was as miserable as Maddie is about this union, I would slow my roll to a crawl and figure out WHY.

 

Letting your kids have a say in who you marry and taking their feelings into consideration as you make life changes are two separate things.  Since Rayna has neither married Luke nor been away from her kids for a year yet, I hold out faith that she (and the writers) will do the right thing when the time comes.  Still, judging from Maddie's outburst a lot of her "misery" comes from her desire for her mom and Deacon to be together.  She may need learn that her parents can't and shouldn't live their lives according to her wishes.

 

Luke's reaction to the ways in which Rayna tries to care for her children should be telling.  His disregard of her kids' reactions, how it affected Rayna, and her concern about the wedding date should be a red flag (as Peggy's refusal to move back the wedding date should have been for Teddy).  Time will tell.

Edited October 12, 2014 by shron17

[madam magpie]

Still, judging from Maddie's outburst a lot of her "misery" comes from her desire for her mom and Deacon to be together.  She may need learn that her parents can't and shouldn't live their lives according to her wishes.

 

That's the harsh and surface appearance, yes, but I don't actually think it's the real problem. Deacon and Rayna together is the solution Maddie can see and the one that she likes best for sure, but her behavior really seems to stem from a lack of attention and stability. Maddie's not just some bitchy, self-absorbed jerk. She loves her family and is very sad. Why doesn't Mom want to figure out why?? The two things Maddie said that were most telling for me were "Things won't be normal when you get back from your tour because you'll be married to Luke" and "Everyone is leaving." From where Maddie sits, Luke is taking two of her parents from her when she needs them the most. I wouldn't like him either. Rayna's screwed up love life should not be Maddie's problem. It shouldn't be Rayna's problem either, honestly. Relationships and marriages should enhance everyone's lives, not make them harder or more unhappy. This is TV, so I'm sure Rayna will change her mind right in time for the mid-season cliffhanger, but her behavior thus far isn't particularly admirable or defensible or even in character.

 

I do agree that Luke's reactions should be red flags for Rayna, but she's so wrapped up in her own shallowness, she seems unable to see them right now.

Edited October 12, 2014 by madam magpie

[airwair]

Has anyone seen This Boy's Life?

Mom was over the moon about new man, kid hated him, mom didn't care and married him anyway, kid acted out, mom punished kid, husband turned out to be absolutely PSYCHO.

Sometimes kids have good intuition.

I agree wholeheartedly with magpie that if your kids are pushing back, so should you.

Maddie didn't push back on Teddy's wedding because she wanted him back with Rayna, she just didn't like Peggy and she didn't like the shock of their engagement. What did Rayna do? She told Teddy to stick it and respect Maddie's wishes because she is old enough to have choices and a say and if she didn't want to appreciate the union or go to the wedding, she shouldn't be forced to.

(And imagine... Peggy was faking a pregnancy and pushing Teddy to care more about his constituents than his children.)

I keep going back and forth between that Rayna (as well as the Rayna who won't even appear on a red carpet with Deacon--someone they've known their whole life-- without talking to the girls) and this Rayna who tells her daughter to be "respectful" her her wedding and insinuates that if they hadn't rescheduled it, her fishing trip be damned.

Edited October 12, 2014 by airwair

[rubyred]

I've mentioned before that I was not surprised that Maddie had this secret fantasy about Deacon and Rayna reuniting simply because she's a teenager who has romanticized their early relationship. But that said the show has done a piss-poor job of showing it. Maddie had made no hints or moves towards getting Rayna and Deacon together and seemed perfectly content with Rayna's relationship with Luke until the proposal while she basked in the attention of Cool Dad. Yeah sure, there was the Ft Campbell singalong but that was more for Maddie than for Rayna.

 

IMO the girls should definitely have been more in the loop about the seriousness of Luke's intentions. That said, Rayna herself didn't know or expect a proposal, Luke has forced the issue for all of them. Daphne has always liked Luke but even she was like, derp, during the proposal. BUT. Maddie is at an age in which every damn thing is the end or the beginning of the world (and kudos to Lennon because she's doing a great job getting under my skin with her adolescent self-involvement) and Rayna and Teddy's MO seems to be to calm the filly and then talk about it later. But AFAWK Rayna and the girls didn't talk about it later, which is no bueno. Rayna seemingly took a page out of Luke's book and presented them with a fait accompli.

 

Remember sweet Maddie with the red eyeglasses? I miss her. Teen Maddie has two men fighting for the right to be considered her father and she has the luxury of playing all her parents off of each other and being petulant when they don't do what she wants them to do. #richpeopleproblems. I really want someone to take her down a peg and point out how fortunate she is in her life, because she's verging on insufferable at times.

 

That was such a tangent! What I really wanted to talk about was Rayna's damage. I still think Rayna owes Deacon a sincere apology. I need to see her plant her feet, look him in the eye, and tell him that she too regrets the decision she made. She can have regrets and still think she made the right decision. He has let her off the hook too much. I don't think they'll really be able to build something new if they don't have a few more heart-to-hearts about what went on back then.

[rachel1496]

I'd also talk to her about it extensively and often, rather than drop all kinds of life bombs on her and just let them blow up while I left for a year-long tour to make money and court fame that I don't need.

If Rayna's label fails everything goes down with it.  H65 has two artists and one of them is about to be involved in yet another scandal.  Rayna's career and her label are both depending on her album doing well right now and for that she needs to tour. 

[airwair]

Anyone who has taken a life cycle psychology class could see that Maddie's behavior could be a LOT worse and given her screwed up circumstances, she's actually adjusting and behaving well in comparison. (It remains to be seen if the sneaking out and drinking will progress into something more normal and expected.)

Maddie is the furthest thing from the problem here and I truly am baffled by all of the tangents against her.

As I (and I'm sure so many others) did when I hit about 25, she will likely look back and want nothing more than to apologize to her parents for what she put them through.

The not so normal part is they owe her an apology, too.

[airwair]

If Rayna's label fails everything goes down with it. H65 has two artists and one of them is about to be involved in yet another scandal. Rayna's career and her label are both depending on her album doing well right now and for that she needs to tour.

I disagree. It's been established that Rayna has acquired a respected longevity in the Nashville music community. I don't think arena tours and $$$$$ are what H65 needs to survive--- she's taking this step up because she wants to.

H65 could thrive as a small, independent label that serves as a haven for underprivileged and under appreciated artists. I was actually under the impression that's what she wanted to do with it.

She has the money now to make this happen-- her house is no longer at stake. Everything she does above and beyond that is choice because she had turned into Luke Wheeler's counter part who wants to attach a brand to everything.

Someone mentioned Martina McBride earlier... Achieved great success and respect with arena tours in her hey day, now plays much smaller venues for a more intimate experience that focuses on the craft and her message.

Her husband owns a studio and and even an production school and spends his time behind the scenes following his own dream.

It all goes back to the pilot-- "you can leave any time you want, you can come back any time you want."

Were Rayna to be with Deacon, Martina and John's low key life is exactly what I can see them having, but that's a side issue.

My whole point is that Rayna is not backed into any kind of corner here-- she wants the glitz, glamour, and fame and she deserves every bit of paparazzi that come her way and invade her life and make her miserable.

[madam magpie]

If Rayna's label fails everything goes down with it.  H65 has two artists and one of them is about to be involved in yet another scandal.  Rayna's career and her label are both depending on her album doing well right now and for that she needs to tour.

 

Not true. Rayna just inherited a crap ton of money from her father and was picking out new office space. She's not on the road to any financial disaster. There are also other ways to garner publicity for an album than than the Fame Whore Tour. And she could, you know, SCOUT SOME ARTISTS.

 

Maddie is the furthest thing from the problem here and I truly am baffled by all of the tangents against her.

 

I completely agree. Maddie is a messed up kid who's not even doing anything that bad and has a mother who thinks it's a good idea to leave her for an entire year. I don't understand why Maddie gets any flak at all. Holy hell. She's only 15.

 

Her husband owns a studio and and even an production school and spends his time behind the scenes following his own dream.

 

That's exactly right, and would Callie Khouri have the balls to say John McBride isn't his wife's equal professionally?? I doubt it. He's incredibly successful doing what he likes and is good at, even if he's not a superstar. When did "superstar" become the barometer by which we judge success? Most of the population (myself included) are total failures if that's the standard.

Edited October 12, 2014 by madam magpie

[airwair]

Callie is seriously delusional. I figured that out the second she tried to act like Connie and Will Chase have chemistry. I guess if you think chemistry is like getting a root canal then we are good.

Hell, Maddie had more chemistry with grabby boy.