Rory and Jess

[amensisterfriend]

You know how a few TV couples just somehow work for you, exuding a connection and chemistry that you can't help seeing even when you don't especially want to?! Jess/Rory was---and remains---among those few couples for me. The thing is, Jess and Rory aren't even the type of couple I'd normally care about and root for. I'm not often into the surly TV bad boys who are (cue the violins) just lonely and misunderstood, I'm way too old (or should be!) to get into couples who are that age, and I can fully acknowledge the myriad ways in which this relationship was unhealthy...and, somehow, none of that matters. I just see this connection between them, chemistry on every level (not just purely physical/romantic!) and a surprising degree of compatibility, especially when you factor in how Jess seems to have evolved and matured throughout the series without losing his quintessential Jess-ness :) I feel like they're an ideal blend of 'able to instinctively GET each other' commonalities and complementary, stimulating differences. 

 

I'm totally not trying to start a debate here about who Rory's best and worst boyfriends were, and I completely respect that opinions on that vary wildly! I just thought it would be fun to have a place to talk about our favorite---and least favorite---Jess/Rory scenes, post our favorite pictures, and speculate on what they might be like today.  

In honor of this new thread, I changed my avatar to one of my favorite R/J pictures:

 

[DisneyBoy]

Wow - no comments in this thread?  Then allow me!

 

Rory and Jess were annoying on paper and captivating on screen.  I really tire of the "bad boy shows up and throws good girl for a loop" romantic subplots that seem to creep into every show, because, inevitably, the bad boy becomes the romantic lead when in reality, girls all too often get messed over by these relationships.  While the same thing played out here, I definitely feel ASP wrote an incredibly well-rounded character in Jess and he was interesting for being more than just some roguish dude that distracted Rory.

 

They had great chemistry, and while I'm frustrated his last appearances were so brief, I liked that the show didn't necessarily force us down a Rory and Jess 4 Eva route, because frankly, they were both too young to really get serious with each other.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm so glad you commented, Disney Boy! I was starting to feel like I was hosting a party that no one showed up to---er, not that that's ever actually happened to me, of course ;) 

 

Rory and Jess were annoying on paper and captivating on screen.  I really tire of the "bad boy shows up and throws good girl for a loop" romantic subplots that seem to creep into every show, because, inevitably, the bad boy becomes the romantic lead when in reality, girls all too often get messed over by these relationships.  While the same thing played out here, I definitely feel ASP wrote an incredibly well-rounded character in Jess and he was interesting for being more than just some roguish dude that distracted Rory.

 

Exactly! As I said, my own 'shippiness here still takes me by surprise, as I, too, generally hate the 'angsty bad boy/special 'good girl' who tames him' trope. For some reason I just so fully buy into their connection---emotionally, intellectually, physically, etc. 

 

They had great chemistry, and while I'm frustrated his last appearances were so brief, I liked that the show didn't necessarily force us down a Rory and Jess 4 Eva route, because frankly, they were both too young to really get serious with each other.

 

I agree with all of this as well. As much as I didn't especially enjoy that they broke up, I fully understood it and felt it actually made a great deal of sense given their characters, issues and current stage of life. I love that we got glimpses of Jess evolving as the series progressed, which made me feel like they might have been able to make it work as adults.

 

What were some of your favorite Jess/Rory scenes and moments?!

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[junienmomo]

My favorite Jess/Rory scene is the one before Fran's funeral, where they never quite connect with each other. Beautifully expressed in acting and music, and Luke as observer  really put me into the emotion of the scene.

My dissatisfaction with Jess was that he believed so strongly that he knew what was right for Rory, but he was so far off. Combine that with his see-sawing between ultimatums and sullen silence, and I found it hard to recognize any useful chemistry.

[amensisterfriend]

Heh---yeah, unfortunately Jess takes after Uncle Luke when it comes to being sullen, rude, angry and unable to communicate candidly and maturely in relationships ;) I think I cut Jess a little more slack due to his being so young and having a pretty crappy upbringing. As for not seeing chemistry, I totally respect that---chemistry is so wildly subjective, and mileage varies widely! I just saw that special 'something' between Jess and Rory, even when I didn't especially want to :) 

Edited October 7, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[blueray]

I was always a Jess fan, even after they broke up. I loved how he grew up as the show went on. And of course that he is the one to finally get through to Rory that she shouldn't have dropped out of school.

 

Also, something I read somewhere at the end of the show, he is most likely the only "boyfriend" that she is still on good terms with at the end of the series. They seem like they make great friends, and could some day lead to more.

Edited October 8, 2014 by blueray

[Aloeonatable]

 

As for not seeing chemistry, I totally respect that---chemistry is so wildly subjective, and mileage varies widely! I just saw that special 'something' between Jess and Rory, even when I didn't especially want to :)

 

Yesterday on ABC Family they had the episode, Let the Games Begin. To me, that episode really reveals the chemistry between Jess and Rory. I know the two actors were dating IRL at the time, so I would imagine the looks between them were very easy to come by. More to the point, Alexis really seemed much more relaxed in her kissing scenes than with any other of her love interests. 

[junienmomo]

Don't forget That'll Do, Pig, as a key Jess episode. He struggled with the notion of small town residents will always be with each other, even though he'd been coached by both Rory and Luke in earlier episodes. 

And Clara just shredded him! So funny! Even Rory had her moment when she knocked down the milk bottles, winning her own bear. 

Tough truths for a 17 y.o. to face. 

[Jfer082887]

I absolutely love Rory and Jess although their relationship in season 3 frustrates me. Jess wasn't ready, and they both needed to communicate to each other. Just talk to each other!! Season 6 Jess was perfect for Rory, but Rory at that time wasn't ready. In my mind, they figured out the timing and got together.

Ugh, don't get me started on Dean and Logan.

[larapu2000]

I hated Jess the first time I watched the show, but a lot less this time through-part of this is my high school self being similar to Rory-smart girl, good girl (although I actually had friends and extracurricular activities, lol), so I struggled with the idea that such a driven, buttoned up girl would be into the fuck-up.  On second watch, he bothers me less and I understand her attraction to him after being with the uber clingy sop that Dean was (ugh, DEAN!).  

 

One thing that still and will always bother me about the Jess thing is his reaction to Rory when they're making out at Kyle's party.  Jess always had an underlying layer of respect for her that made this out of character for him.  But seriously, Rory, you've been dating him how long and he still hasn't touched your boobies?  It makes me wonder if poor Dean had to settle for chaste kisses for 2 years, without even the dream of outer clothing groping.

Edited November 4, 2014 by larapu2000

[Jfer082887]

When I first watched the show, I was younger and liked Dean. What a great boyfriend, I thought. On second watch, I hate Dean and love Jess. Dean was jealous, insecure, and their relationship, although started as innocent and cute, was mostly one-sided. What DID they talk about (As Jess asked in The Bracebridge Dinner episode)? Season one Dean is more tolerable but Season 2 Dean is pathetic and annoying and just blah. Jess was more intriguing, interesting, and seemed to breathe life into Rory.

Jess is really unlikable in The Keg!Max! Episode and also The Face Off, which are the episodes I most remember from my first watch. And I agree with you about that scene in the upstairs bedroom at the party. Out of character for Jess. And come on, Rory, your boyfriend is hot and you guys are 18. But the next year, you sleep with your married ex? Wrong choice.

I really do love watching seasons 2 and 3 for all of the sweet Rory and Jess moments. :)

[HotForBacon]

The reason I stopped watching the show was because of Jess. Like I could tell Rory was attracted to him and was not resisting it at all. I could not stand it.

 

Then it's on Netflix. And I'm unemployed so let's watch the whole show (currently on season 4) and maybe I'd change my mind about Jess. No. I just really did not like it at all. I didn't like how Rory handled it and to be honest I'd pick S1 Dean over him ANYTIME. Jess was just too rude and too mute and just too much. I hate his character the most on this show so far. Now based on what I've read I have not seen the last of Jess, will that make me change my mind? I don't know.

[junienmomo]

I had the same problem with Jess. Hated him.

After several viewings I realized how important he is to the overall story. His character helps Lorelai, Rory and Luke grow in important ways. Don't give up, instead think about how he makes the other characters behave. He's even more important than Emily in the seasons that he appears. 

[larapu2000]

Yeah, I agree that Jess was more important to everyone's character development than I initially thought at first.  I especially think the shoddy way he treated Rory directly led to her telling him "no" when he came to Yale to drag her off to...where exactly?  I liked that she had grown up, seen him for what he was and what he wasn't, and wasn't the lovesick girl that let him win her over with concert tickets.  

[dustylil]

Slightly off topic but I wish that Jess had been able to develop peer relationships with someone other than Rory. It was a long standing wish that he date Paris - even if briefly. However, I would have been content  to see him bond with Paris over books or philosophical disputes. Of course, the caustic zingers would also fly between them. 

[blueray]

Slightly off topic but I wish that Jess had been able to develop peer relationships with someone other than Rory. It was a long standing wish that he date Paris - even if briefly. However, I would have been content  to see him bond with Paris over books or philosophical disputes. Of course, the caustic zingers would also fly between them. 

I think I said this on another thread. But the time that Paris helped Rory by lying about why Jess was over that night seemed like it could have been true. The two were hitting it off and seemed to be having fun talking about books.

[junienmomo]

Wouldn't it have been a fun first year at Yale if Jess had shown up working somewhere near campus? Rory might not have had such a lonely year, and all kinds of interesting heck could have broken loose in SH and with the elder Gilmores.

[Woopah]

I loved Rory and Jess together I would like to believe that after season 6 they could have had a chance as Jess had grown up and Rory had too.

[Tangerine]

I think I said this on another thread. But the time that Paris helped Rory by lying about why Jess was over that night seemed like it could have been true. The two were hitting it off and seemed to be having fun talking about books.

Even the first time they interacted, when Paris went to Star's Hollow to do their human interest piece on the seedy underbelly of small towns so they could win the newspaper award. I believe Paris went into Luke's and started accusing him of running a bordello and Jess started bugging Luke about how he couldn't grow up in that kind of environment. I definitely started shipping them then. I'm not so sure Paris would have understood Jess' sense of humour, but she'd keep him on his toes and would never put up with his crap. It would've been neat to see.

[readster]

The biggest problem with Rory and Jess was how much Amy P wanted Milo to be the star of his own show and how much Milo at the time wanted to have a larger focus with a show. Too bad he had to wait until Heroes a few years later to get his wish. I was happy that when Jess did return it was more plausible why he came back verses him leaving to be with the father who walked out on them. Saying: "You have nothing?" "I have nothing!" What crap hated the set up for a show that was never given the green light except in Amy P's head.

[emma675]

I'm rewatching for the first time in years and years and I just finished Season 3 last night. HATE Jess at this point. Hate him.

 

Granted, I get that he had a terrible childhood and he's 18 and thinks he knows everything about everything, but he treated everyone (including Rory) around him like crap and I have no tolerance for that. He was sullen, moody, sulky, mute and just a pain in the ass. I never understood what Rory saw in him at this point. Dean was no prize either but at least he attempted to communicate. I was so happy when Jess ran off to California. And so happy that California set up never became its own show.

[Aloeonatable]

ASP said Jess was Rory's first sexual attraction (interesting since he was the only one of Rory's boyfriends who she never had sex with) so their relationship was primarily physical. They did share a love for books and seemed intellectual equals. Didn't Rory say to Paris that she found him exciting and unpredictable. She, like some of us, must have found Dean boring and predictable then. 

[scarynikki12]

Jess and Rory had a One Special Girl storyline going on as well.  Like the trope, Jess didn't actually treat Rory well but his poor treatment of her was still better than anyone else so it seemed positive in comparison.   Like every female involved in such a trope, Rory liked being the only one Jess treated "well" and, as such, excused or ignored how badly he treated everyone else.  Dean, on the other hand, inadvertently did a reverse of the trope by often treating Rory worse than some other characters.  So, with that in mind, I can understand why Rory looked the other way for so long and pretended that SHE was the one who was special enough to be treated well by "bad boy Jess". 

 

It did get frustrating though, when Rory kept insisting that she was more at fault for the accident.  I get that Lorelai was overreacting and that Emily was due to join her but Rory needed to tell them both to shut it, that the accident was exactly that, and even remind them of the deer accident from season 1.  By insisting that she take on the blame, Rory made it seem like this was a situation where blame was needed.  Now, that probably had lot to do with how Lorelai was acting but it was an accident caused by a wild animal.  The accident wouldn't have happened if deer weren't genetically suicidal when it comes to cars.  Lorelai was letting her dislike of Jess cloud the facts, which lost her one of her closest friends (albeit temporarily though they didn't know that), and Emily was letting her classist attitudes get in the way of those same facts.  Rory needed to say that, rather than make excuses where none were needed. 

 

There's no explanation for her multitude of excuses for Jess later on though and I think it's telling that she was only able to stand up to him and say how angry she was (and not tell him to later erase the voicemail without checking) when he'd dumped her in such a humiliating way.

[readster]

Jess and Rory had a One Special Girl storyline going on as well.  Like the trope, Jess didn't actually treat Rory well but his poor treatment of her was still better than anyone else so it seemed positive in comparison.   Like every female involved in such a trope, Rory liked being the only one Jess treated "well" and, as such, excused or ignored how badly he treated everyone else.  Dean, on the other hand, inadvertently did a reverse of the trope by often treating Rory worse than some other characters.  So, with that in mind, I can understand why Rory looked the other way for so long and pretended that SHE was the one who was special enough to be treated well by "bad boy Jess". 

 

It did get frustrating though, when Rory kept insisting that she was more at fault for the accident.  I get that Lorelai was overreacting and that Emily was due to join her but Rory needed to tell them both to shut it, that the accident was exactly that, and even remind them of the deer accident from season 1.  By insisting that she take on the blame, Rory made it seem like this was a situation where blame was needed.  Now, that probably had lot to do with how Lorelai was acting but it was an accident caused by a wild animal.  The accident wouldn't have happened if deer weren't genetically suicidal when it comes to cars.  Lorelai was letting her dislike of Jess cloud the facts, which lost her one of her closest friends (albeit temporarily though they didn't know that), and Emily was letting her classist attitudes get in the way of those same facts.  Rory needed to say that, rather than make excuses where none were needed. 

 

There's no explanation for her multitude of excuses for Jess later on though and I think it's telling that she was only able to stand up to him and say how angry she was (and not tell him to later erase the voicemail without checking) when he'd dumped her in such a humiliating way.

 

 Very well said. By the end, Jess really treated everyone terrible from Luke to Rory and he basically wanted to blame everyone but himself when it came down to it. Even when he showed up telling her to just come with him. What was he expecting Rory to do? Just drop out of Yale and travel the country side in his POS car? Never got that. There was so focus of Jess being a "screw up" that his ditching school to work for Walmart and never explaining what was going on his head was so forced. I would have told Jess "no" when he just showed up wanting her to run away with him. Her explanation of the car accident was spot on and too bad that part of Rory never seem to want to return.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm always in the weirdest position re. Jess/Rory---objectively, I readily agree with a majority of the criticisms about Jess and their relationship, but somehow subjectively I just 'get' them and totally bought that they had a very strong connection, which certainly isn't a given for me! Jess is a character I'd dislike strongly on paper, but somehow he worked for me. I like what he brought to the show, I believed that he had deep feelings for Rory, and I actually like that their relationship didn't magically reform him and erase his myriad issues. That felt very realistic for me. 

 

I tend to dislike the way romance was depicted on GG in general, and while Rory/Jess were far (like, very, very far!) from the idyllic couple, they're among the very few GG couples who did at least seem to have some actual chemistry IMO. (And, again, I don't just mean 'I'm sexually attracted to you' chemistry, but 'I GET you on multiple levels' chemistry!) And since the VAST majority of GG males of all ages were depicted as sulky, rude, angry, jealous, temperamental, bitter, extremely poor communicators, etc etc etc, I think that maybe Jess and his behavior towards Rory and those she loved wasn't as glaringly awful as it might have been on a different show :) 

Edited December 22, 2014 by amensisterfriend

[BkWurm1]

I think most of Rory's boyfriends made sense for where Rory was at that point in her life.  Season 1 Dean was the perfect first boyfriend but early on we saw he wasn't an intellectual match.  Jess came in and sparked more than just her mind and they made sense on a lot of levels but we have the problem that Jess was a mess and pretty much sand bagged his chances.  Dean the second time was born of nostalgia of the worst kind but her falling back to him made a certain sense with all the changes in her life.  Logan was IMO the Yale version of Dean.  Not in personality, but in looking good on paper, kind of the perfect college boyfriend, a good combination of the acceptableness of Dean (initially as 1st boyfriend) and the mind and bad boy edge that Jess came with all wrapped up with belonging to  the right crowd.  But like how Dean didn't really fit in Rory's life beyond that first crush, Logan didn't fit into Rory's life past the structure of college and he really didn't know her well if he thought she was going to move to suburbs and be little wifey.  I always felt with Logan, she was just playing a part - even if she didn't really wake up to that until forced to make a choice about her future.   

 

What always made Jess so interesting to me wasn't that he was so very perfect for Rory when they dated, he wasn't, he was frequently a jerk, but he came with such great potential.  He and Rory had that real raw connection that I never saw with Logan and had that intellectual parity that she never had with Dean.  By intellectual, I mean not just love of learning but Jess understood how she thought and got her humor and vice versa while Dean only understood he should humor her.  Jess demanded a level of realness that I never saw from Logan. Rory and Logan played house and while Rory was good for Logan, I can't say that Logan was good for Rory.  He enabled her when she was at her worst and really didn't prove to be dependable when it counted.  (Plus the whole expecting her to drop her dreams for the privilege of marrying him)

 

Jess made all kinds of mistakes and burned some major bridges but over time we saw him getting his act together.  We got to see him start to grow up.  He came to respect what he had with Luke.  He started being there for his mom even if she might have not exactly earned any awards with her parenting skills.  He stopped running and started to grow something with the bookstore and his writing. He wasn't afraid to hold a mirror up to Rory and remind her who she really was, something he could only do because he had really known Rory deeply despite his communication problems.  The biggest thing growing up seemed to do was leech away the anger he'd been carrying around. 

 

The show ended with Rory the fledgling reporter ready  to start running around the country and Jess still writing and working on the bookstore slash indie publishing co.  They were off doing their own things, but the last time we'd seen them, we did get proof that that connection and understanding and even physical chemistry was still there between them even if at the time Rory was in love with Logan and even if Jess was thinking about pursuing someone else.  I was fine with that because the timing still wasn't right.  They were still searching for themselves. 

 

Jess is the guy that I see Rory reconnecting with once she is finally comfortable in whatever she's doing career wise.  .  He's someone who's opinion remains surprisingly important to her and beyond the impression I got that they'd stay in touch, there's the Luke connection to make it even easier and since the last episode seemed to heavily imply Luke and Lorelai were going to get it right this time, it's not hard to imaging Rory and Jess bumping into each other again and again. 

 

As teens, a lot of the right ingredients were there for an epic love and notably, it wasn't a lack of feeling or even an incompatibility problem that broke them up.  Jess seems to have grown past his issues and Rory has learned to make sure to speak up for herself.  Maturity would have shaved off those rough edges of youth and insecurity and those same right ingredients would still be there. 

 

I have a harder time imagining them not eventually falling back in love and making a life together.  Like I said, soooo much potential.      

[Tangerine]

I did like how Jess and Rory's relationship didn't play out like your typical TV show where the bad boy was redeemed through his relationship with the good girl. Jess had a boat load of issues he needed sorting out and Rory's love was hardly going to be able to solve all of them. It was nice that the two of them got to have some manner of closure of sorts in Philadelphia considering how awful their previous two encounters ended. What I really liked about that meeting was that despite the fact that Jess was rightly upset about their kiss, he quietly accepted it after the anger had passed.

 

Jess demanded a level of realness that I never saw from Logan. Rory and Logan played house and while Rory was good for Logan, I can't say that Logan was good for Rory.  He enabled her when she was at her worst and really didn't prove to be dependable when it counted.  (Plus the whole expecting her to drop her dreams for the privilege of marrying him)

 

Taking reply to Rory and Logan thread.

[cheezwhiz346]

I think most of Rory's boyfriends made sense for where Rory was at that point in her life.  Season 1 Dean was the perfect first boyfriend but early on we saw he wasn't an intellectual match.  Jess came in and sparked more than just her mind and they made sense on a lot of levels but we have the problem that Jess was a mess and pretty much sand bagged his chances.  Dean the second time was born of nostalgia of the worst kind but her falling back to him made a certain sense with all the changes in her life.  Logan was IMO the Yale version of Dean.  Not in personality, but in looking good on paper, kind of the perfect college boyfriend, a good combination of the acceptableness of Dean (initially as 1st boyfriend) and the mind and bad boy edge that Jess came with all wrapped up with belonging to  the right crowd.  But like how Dean didn't really fit in Rory's life beyond that first crush, Logan didn't fit into Rory's life past the structure of college and he really didn't know her well if he thought she was going to move to suburbs and be little wifey.  I always felt with Logan, she was just playing a part - even if she didn't really wake up to that until forced to make a choice about her future.   

 

What always made Jess so interesting to me wasn't that he was so very perfect for Rory when they dated, he wasn't, he was frequently a jerk, but he came with such great potential.  He and Rory had that real raw connection that I never saw with Logan and had that intellectual parity that she never had with Dean.  By intellectual, I mean not just love of learning but Jess understood how she thought and got her humor and vice versa while Dean only understood he should humor her.  Jess demanded a level of realness that I never saw from Logan. Rory and Logan played house and while Rory was good for Logan, I can't say that Logan was good for Rory.  

  

I agree with what you have said about Rory and Jess compared with Rory and Logan/Dean to a large extent, and you expressed it better than I could have. I do think that Jess had more potential for a long haul-type relationship with Rory because of the connection the shared. There were certain ways in which they seemed to really 'get' each other. However, I just don't know if that potential is quite enough for me to see them being together as adults. It might be because I feel like Rory and Jess both have the propensity to be easily influenced by their more impulsive sides (Rory is very often driven by what she wants in the moment; Jess has a bitterness/withdrawn nature that I don't think is ever going to be eradicated), and even though they've each matured quite a bit and will surely do so to a further extent, I have trouble envisioning the two of them together in a way that's not a little volatile/drama-laden (in a hurtful way). And that's just not to my taste, for couples.

 

I personally have never really enjoyed watching the two of them on screen from the Bracebridge Dinner on--though I agree that they had chemistry--because of how they seemed to bring out these impulsive sides in each other (Rory would do things like skip school and miss Lorelai's graduation/string along Dean; Jess would become very withdrawn and Rory would let him do it which would just exacerbate the situation). I vastly preferred his interactions with Paris - not that they necessarily needed to be together romantically, but I liked how the two of them went back and forth; it felt more like an equal playing field and I think Jess very much needs someone who's not going to be so thrown off by his sharp edges, which I think Rory was. I also think that there are some sides of Rory that Jess doesn't particularly get or like. Jess didn't understand what she was doing in season 6 with Logan and with dropping out of school, and told her it wasn't her. But it was her. That was her too, just not a side he wanted to see. Not that I can blame him, I wasn't too thrilled with it myself. ;)

Edited January 6, 2015 by damngoodcoffee

[BkWurm1]

I also think that there are some sides of Rory that Jess doesn't particularly get or like. Jess didn't understand what she was doing in season 6 with Logan and with dropping out of school, and told her it wasn't her. But it was her. That was her too, just not a side he wanted to see. Not that I can blame him, I wasn't too thrilled with it myself. ;)

 

We can behave even for an extended time in a manner that doesn't match with who we really are, that is to say, in a way that goes against what we believe or at least strive to be.  That is what I saw Jess doing.  He was calling her on letting herself fall so far from her ideals.  I liked that about Jess. It wasn't IMO about what he wanted or expected from her so much as what he knew she wanted and expected from herself.  Jess wasn't really saying anything different than what everyone else had been saying but from his lips, she recognized it as the truth and more importantly, she woke up to the fact that she didn't want to be that person.  

 

 I personally have never really enjoyed watching the two of them on screen from the Bracebridge Dinner on--though I agree that they had chemistry--because of how they seemed to bring out these impulsive sides in each other (Rory would do things like skip school and miss Lorelai's graduation/string along Dean; Jess would become very withdrawn and Rory would let him do it which would just exacerbate the situation 

 

 

It might be because I feel like Rory and Jess both have the propensity to be easily influenced by their more impulsive sides (Rory is very often driven by what she wants in the moment; Jess has a bitterness/withdrawn nature that I don't think is ever going to be eradicated),

 

I see most of these issues to be ones that are solved as they mature.  Jess had a lot of anger and not all of was misplaced and with a lot of people, I wouldn't expect that to ever really change, but we were shown that Jess was growing and letting go of past hurts and learning how to forgive.  We also saw him coming to understand that his actions could hurt people around him and it did matter to Jess.  We saw him already appreciating and valuing people that he'd previously only had anger toward.  Maybe finding his father let him move past it or maybe being on his own made him learn to value the connections he had in life.  

 

Jess at the end of the show was already a much more grounded and reliable person.  He wasn't running from problems.  He was digging in his heels trying to make something. He wasn't angry at the world anymore.  He was never going to be a sunshiny personality but then that's not a required quality from the Gilmore Girls.   

 

With Rory, I also think she benefits from maturity.  A wiser Rory hopefully would have recognized when it was time to break up with Dean rather than cling to the past.  I can't blame Jess for that behavior, that is on Rory.  She was a planner and it's hard to plan out how you will keep feeling.  Breaking up with Dean wasn't on her to do list even when it became obvious that she yearned for something more than that small town boy with limited imagination, ambitions or - let's face it - intellect. 

 

As to the question of bringing out the impulsive side, I'm not sure if I agree on the whole about that.  Rory skipping school to go see Jess was out of character for her and yet at the same time, it wasn't.  She'd been thinking about Jess and how he was unfairly treated for a long time, so wanting to see him wasn't impulsive.   It was an emotional decision; she felt guilty and missed him and once day the idea of just staying on the bus and going to see him was too much for her to ignore. 

 

I don't think Rory needed to be less impulsive, rather she needed to be more honest with herself about what she wanted rather than keep denying it  until she snaps. 

The impulsive behavior we saw with Jess was all tied up in his me against the world and not really being considerate of those around him, but he was a kid with a lot of problems who'd been virtually abandoned by his mother in a lot of ways.  He put up a lot of walls to avoid getting hurt but he was learning how to let people in and be trustworthy as well.  

 

Rory used to be very sure of herself and what she wanted and how to get it.  It's when she's full of doubts and confusion that I've seen her be easily influenced or actually I'd call it more specifically, easily distracted, so she doesn't have to think about her doubts and confusion.  That's how she ended up back with Dean - the future was making her doubt herself so she turned back to what once had been safe and familiar.  That's the behavior that led to her stealing a boat and quitting Harvard and hanging with the party crowd.  With Jess her impulses weren't so much of a distraction from reality but a result of her trying to match up to an image in her head.  

 

Jess would IMO be very good at helping Rory believe in herself an avoid the needless doubting but he also is good at reality checks so when she has real reason to be worried and confused, he'd be a good one to help her figure out her next move without getting forever bogged down with distractions.  Rory also has learned since high school how to speak up for herself.  I think that is still a work in progress, she's still the shy people pleaser but she was getting better and I can see her becoming more sure of herself as her career takes off.  She's already learned that not talking won't solve problems so I'd think she wouldn't have to fall back into their old patterns.  It's a trait she'd have to cultivate for any relationship to work. 

 

Jess probably would always lean toward brooding but like with Luke and Lorelai, I think Rory being a very sunny personality is very helpful in keeping him from too much dark introspection.  I think their differences actually strengthen what they could have together.  They balance each other out while at the same time they have a huge amount of shared interests. 

 

In  a few ways, I think Rory and Logan were too much alike, much the same way I felt that Lorelai and Christopher were too much alike.  It goes back to that realness layer that I found lacking.  Too much fluff without substance.  Though between Logan and Christopher, Logan wins.  Christopher will always be too much of a selfish opportunist for my liking.                                                                                                                                   

[ShellSeeker]

I am finally watching this for the first time, working my way through on Netflix. I find Jess to be an enormous d-bag, and the way the writing and the actor just scream "I AM THE BAD BOY HERE TO RUIN THE GOOD GIRL" is really, really annoying. I hope it is toned down in Season 3.

[GreenScreenFX]

Jess was.... and will always be .....a total douche bag. To this day I can not see how anyone liked that little shit.


Yes I know he eventually grew up and behaved as a human, but the guy was a Grade A dickwad from start to finish. He is awful!

Edited February 2, 2015 by yeswedo
Removed comments about Jess fans

[FozzyBear]

Jess was.... and will always be .....a total douche bag. To this day I can not see how anyone liked that little shit.

Yes I know he eventually grew up and behaved as a human, but the guy was a Grade A dickwad from start to finish. The only people that liked him were fan girls, and I still don't even understand that! Seriously,,! Jess fans, watch his episode run again. He is awful!

I know that Jess became an ok guy, but we never saw it! Even when he and Rory are together he's a huge border line emotionaly abusive jerk. We only get this real inkling of the Jess who turned out ok for one episode years after the character had been pretty much written off the show. Some of my issue with Jess really does sadly fall to MV's portrayal. I just don't think he was that good with the rhythm of the dialog. I've heard he was good in other stuff, but he fell a little flat in GG. It reminds me of Sorkin's writing. Sometimes even very good actors mange to hit every douchbag note in his writing. Josh Molina for instance. I've liked him in other things (even Scandal), but he always came across as such a smug little jerk in both Sports Night and The West Wing. MV's portrayal of Jess had that vibe, like he hit all of the smirky asshole and missed all the charm.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Yes I know he eventually grew up and behaved as a human, but the guy was a Grade A dickwad from start to finish. The only people that liked him were fan girls, and I still don't even understand that! Seriously,,! Jess fans, watch his episode run again. He is awful!

 

I'm not a "fan girl," and I like Jess, both as a character who brought much to the show and as someone I feel I understood. Yes, he was rude, but so were Emily, Richard, Luke, and Paris, to name a few, often times. Besides, why do you have to "like" the character in order to like what that character brings to the show? 

 

 

 

I know that Jess became an ok guy, but we never saw it! Even when he and Rory are together he's a huge border line emotionaly abusive jerk. We only get this real inkling of the Jess who turned out ok for one episode years after the character had been pretty much written off the show. Some of my issue with Jess really does sadly fall to MV's portrayal. I just don't think he was that good with the rhythm of the dialog. I've heard he was good in other stuff, but he fell a little flat in GG. It reminds me of Sorkin's writing. Sometimes even very good actors mange to hit every douchbag note in his writing. Josh Molina for instance. I've liked him in other things (even Scandal), but he always came across as such a smug little jerk in both Sports Night and The West Wing. MV's portrayal of Jess had that vibe, like he hit all of the smirky asshole and missed all the charm.

 

Jess began to grow up and change at the end of his guest episodes in season 4 when he apologized to Luke and walked his mother down the aisle. Not off screen. When MV returned for Jess's final episodes in season 6 it wasn't hard to believe that he could be the person he became, hard working, creative and appreciative of both Rory and Luke. 

 

I also liked MV's portrayal. To each his own, I guess.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Aloeonatable

[FozzyBear]

I'm not a "fan girl," and I like Jess, both as a character who brought much to the show and as someone I feel I understood. Yes, he was rude, but so were Emily, Richard, Luke, and Paris, to name a few, often times. Besides, why do you have to "like" the character in order to like what that character brings to the show?

Jess began to grow up and change at the end of his guest episodes in season 4 when he apologized to Luke and walked his mother down the aisle. Not off screen. When MV returned for Jess's final episodes in season 6 it wasn't hard to believe that he could be the person he became, hard working, creative and appreciative of both Rory and Luke.

I also liked MV's portrayal. To each his own, I guess.

Oh totally. The writing on GG is so stylised some characters just hit or miss with some people. I loved Logan from the get go for many of the reasons you like Jess. It wasn't that I thought he was always a great guy, but I liked the conflict and ideas he brought to the show.

One thing I think MV did really well as Jess was the more sincere moments. Like the scene on the bridge with Luke after the car accident. He was really good in that moment. He just wasn't given many of them for the longest time.

Edited February 2, 2015 by FozzyBear

[Taryn74]

Yes I know he eventually grew up and behaved as a human, but the guy was a Grade A dickwad from start to finish. The only people that liked him were fan girls, and I still don't even understand that! 

 

Well this 40-year-old-"fangirl" says.....whatever.

[amensisterfriend]

Heh---I'm another 40 year old who's not especially 'fangirly' or overly shippy by nature but thought Rory/Jess had the best pure chemistry of any couple on the show (along with Chris/Lorelai...yes, I'll show myself the door!) That said, my love for the couple has faded with multiple rewatches, and a large part of that is because of what you guys have noted here: they played up Jess's flaws and the problems with Rory/Jess's relationship to the point where they seemed to outweigh his/their strengths. 

 

They really didn't have all that many happy memories and positive experiences as a couple before things headed south. And while Jess did seem to mature and become at least a little less perpetually rude and angry (alas, we know AS-P thinks perpetually rude and angry men are sexy!), 99% of that happened offscreen, so I wasn't as invested as I might have been otherwise or sure of how Rory and the moderately improved Jess would have connected after leading such different lives.

 

Also, the older I get, the less charmed I am by the whole 'all things mainstream suck! Have I mentioned how very punk and alternative and indie I am?!' thing that Jess represents :) That's more about my age and taste, granted, but Jess does sometimes feel more like the classic 'rebellious' teenage love affair that someone as previously sheltered as Rory would have than the guy who she'd be compatible and happiest with long term.  

 

I sometimes wonder if I'd see nearly as much chemistry and connection between Jess and Rory if the actors hadn't been together in real life during most of their onscreen relationship. For me, there was a chemistry that was rare for this show and which often transcended the writing. Based purely on their characterizations and actual interactions, though, I'm not sure I would have ever rooted for them. 

Edited February 2, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[Aloeonatable]

 

That's more about my age and taste, granted, but Jess does sometimes feel more like the classic 'rebellious' teenage love affair that someone as previously sheltered as Rory would have than the guy who she'd be compatible and happiest with long term.

 

Let's just say I'm past my 40th birthday. I never thought that Rory and Jess would, or should, end up together. I thought their relationship was realistic for what we knew of them, and was interesting to watch. 

 

 

I sometimes wonder if I'd see nearly as much chemistry and connection between Jess and Rory if the actors hadn't been together in real life during most of their onscreen relationship.

 

From what I remember, MV and AB started dating after the show went into production for the 3rd season. Prior to that, all season 2 episodes were before they were a couple. That doesn't mean that they weren't becoming attracted to each other, as I do remember reading an article where MV says that they shot the kissing scene in the season 2 finale with quite a few takes from many different angles.  They were together, as a couple, until early 2006, which would be around the time MV shot his last episode in season 6. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by Aloeonatable

[BkWurm1]

I think they were doomed to implode as teenagers but the reasons I felt that Rory was attracted to Jess wasn't because he was the anti-Dean or a rebellious bad boy.  Those were the parts of Jess that she put up with to get to the parts that she identified with:  his mind, his humor, and his ability to challenge her.

 

  Yes probably in the beginning his unpredictability made him more intriguing too but Rory it seemed to me she had a great deal in common with Jess and in turn, Jess was drawn to not only Rory's mind but her happiness with life but of course he was too wrapped up in old wounds to be any good for her, even if I thought they both at times brought out the best qualities in each other.  I liked that Jess seemed to see the real Rory, including her faults and weaknesses and still wanted to be with her and to some extent the same was true with Rory except her way of handling his faults was to ignore them mostly. 

 

That's why I shipped them for the future.  Waaay in the future.  Like in their late twenties or mid thirties once they'd identified their issues, hopefully mastered some demons and knew themselves.  Jess could have just grown more and more angry but fortunately that's not what we saw.  I kind of saw them as maintaining a loose and distant friendship for years.  The kind where they'd hear about each other's lives through a third party.  Maybe send a note of encouragement or congratulations when a new book was published or some significant series of articles were printed.  Kind of keeping track of each other even as they go their own way until finally at the right time and place (whatever that looks like) they'd get the chance to get to know who they were as adults.

 

Those are the two people that I think would be perfect for each other, but to become those people, they needed IMO to go out and experience life and grow on their own. 

Edited February 3, 2015 by BkWurm1

[KatWay]

I really disliked Jess in the early seasons, because even though he had great chemistry with Rory, he was just so rude and snotty and downright mean to everyone. He was even mean to Rory quite a few times, though he always made sure to soften the blow. And then he also came across as manipulative, doing whatever it took to get Rory.

 

As a character I actually find him quite interesting, his relationship with Luke was great to watch and I even liked the conflict he brought to the show. What I didn't like was that from his introduction on I just couldn't love Rory anymore like I loved her in S1. She was so spineless when it came to him, ignoring how he treated everyone around her just because she liked him. She never once made a sound about Jess repeatedly insulting and being rude to the people she professed to like (her mother, Dean). I lost a lot of respect for her there.

 

The whole spin-off that wasn't turned out to be a great thing IMO, because this way, the relationship didn't play out the way I would have expected it to - bad boy with a heart of gold gets tamed by the good girl heroine. Jess' issues didn't magically go away, he turned out to be a shitty boyfriend as these types usually do and he left town to sort his stuff out, because Rory's love couldn't automatically solve his problems.

 

That said, even after he changed and evolved off-screen, I don't really see a future for him and Rory. I think they've both moved on, they're both in a good place, but I think in a way they got closure. I could see Jess with an artsy, bubbly girl like Lucy or Olivia, and Rory with someone completely new.

[Aloeonatable]

 

The whole spin-off that wasn't turned out to be a great thing IMO, because this way, the relationship didn't play out the way I would have expected it to - bad boy with a heart of gold gets tamed by the good girl heroine. Jess' issues didn't magically go away, he turned out to be a shitty boyfriend as these types usually do and he left town to sort his stuff out, because Rory's love couldn't automatically solve his problems.

 

I never saw Jess as having a "heart of gold." I also loved the way their relationship evolved (devolved?) It was very true-to-life.

 

I saw Logan as the one, the bad boy who was tamed by the good girl heroine. 

 

 

I could see Jess with an artsy, bubbly girl like Lucy or Olivia, and Rory with someone completely new.

 

Oh, Lord no! Jess with a bubbly girl. Just no. Artsy, maybe, but bubbly no. 

[amensisterfriend]

I'll never relinquish my dream of a Jess/Paris pairing :) 

[dustylil]

I'm right there with you, amen. Why it wasn't Jess and Paris rather than Jess and Shane annoyed me no end. Think of the histrionics  if those two had a lovers' quarrel!

[junienmomo]

 

Why it wasn't Jess and Paris

 

Because Rory's head would explode. It would be SO worth seeing!

[BkWurm1]

Paris wouldn't have put up with him once she left Star Hollow and went back to her reality. That day she was almost playacting. That wasn't day to day Paris.

Jess didn't remotely factor in her plans. He couldn't measure up so I can't imagine Paris getting caught up with him romantically. Someone driven like Rory or Paris would only fall IMO for a Jess if they also came with a romantic streak to see beyond the rough edges and instead view him as deep or complex or even a work in progress. Paris enjoyed arguing with him because Jess had a great mind, but she wouldn't have seen him through rose colored glasses and which in their case would mean they never would get together long enough to develop any emotional attachment. I just can't see anything that Jess might do softening or humanize him to Paris like his actions did for Rory. With Paris as she was then, I can't imagine there being a circumstance that would make her ever consider him that way.

Even if she did have some aberrant urgent attraction, I can't see her keeping him around for anything but sex.

[junienmomo]

I can totally see Jess and Paris dating, especially during high school. Paris NEVER had a date, but clearly felt she was missing something. Rory couldn't have fixed them up because she had already done that with unhappy results for Paris and Tristan. 

Don't forget that the attraction between Paris and Doyle was based on intellect first. 

[ShellSeeker]

I've gotten through Season 6 where Jess comes back, and I still think he's a ridiculously OTT character, every bad boy archetype rolled into one. He's brooding! He's a rebel! He's actually an intellectual underneath that tough exterior, even though he dropped out of high school! He's emotionally damaged! He's the only one who knows the real Rory! I just can't take him seriously.

[Madame Helvetica]

I've gotten through Season 6 where Jess comes back, and I still think he's a ridiculously OTT character, every bad boy archetype rolled into one. He's brooding! He's a rebel! He's actually an intellectual underneath that tough exterior, even though he dropped out of high school! He's emotionally damaged! He's the only one who knows the real Rory! I just can't take him seriously.

 

 

This is pretty much the best description of Jess that I've read.

[Aloeonatable]

 

I've gotten through Season 6 where Jess comes back, and I still think he's a ridiculously OTT character, every bad boy archetype rolled into one. He's brooding! He's a rebel! He's actually an intellectual underneath that tough exterior, even though he dropped out of high school! He's emotionally damaged! He's the only one who knows the real Rory! I just can't take him seriously.

 

What does dropping out of high school have to do with one's intelligence? Not everyone follows the traditional path of education. There are many self-educated, highly intelligent individuals that do well in life. Of all the characters on GG, Jess matured the most, IMO. Actually, I never saw him as "the bad boy." Sure he was troubled, but he found his place in the world and changed for the better. He learned to appreciate people that helped him through his time in Stars Hollow. As for "knowing" Rory best, again, I think that Rory was the person that he grew to know the best of anyone he knew, not that he knew her better than Lorelai did. 

 

One could probably  take any character on this show and describe them as a cliche. 

[dustylil]

junienmomo I agree with you that it would have been entirely feasible for Paris and Jess to have dated. However, briefly :)

In point of fact though, Paris did date in high school. She started dating Princeton student  Jamie in her senior year. She was still involved with him  when she began her romance with Asher Fleming.

[ShellSeeker]

What does dropping out of high school have to do with one's intelligence? 

 

I didn't intend to cast aspersions on anyone's intelligence with that comment. It's just that for me (and clearly everyone's MMV here), Jess is an overwrought character. It's as if whoever was writing him had a checklist of bad boy characteristics, and they were all represented in Jess. He brooded over things like Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. He had a rebellious, James Dean kind of thing going on too. He was smarter and more sensitive than people thought he was, a bit like the Judd Nelson character in The Breakfast Club. And so on.

 

I like the idea of the Jess character, as he was meant to be someone to challenge Rory. He challenged her intellectually, because they talked quite a bit about books and the like, and he also challenged her ideas about herself and who she was. If a couple, or even one, of those facets of Jess's personality had been toned down, that whole story line would have worked much better for me.