Ratings and Scheduling: Still More Numbers to Decipher

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, I have to defend NCIS, the mothership, because, yes, although it's a procedural, a good part of its heart and the reason I continue to watch is the characters. It's not a cut and dried straight out procedural like the other shows, or a typical procedural.  And for me, well, Mark Harmon. 'nuff said. *sniff*

 

That's not to say it doesn't have its own set of problems, but this isn't the thread to talk about them.

[kahauna]

Okay, I have to defend NCIS, the mothership, because, yes, although it's a procedural, a good part of its heart and the reason I continue to watch is the characters. It's not a cut and dried straight out procedural like the other shows, or a typical procedural.  And for me, well, Mark Harmon. 'nuff said. *sniff*

 

That's not to say it doesn't have its own set of problems, but this isn't the thread to talk about them.

I understand, and I respect that you're speaking of the flagship show of the NCIS franchise. I just feel that PoI really broke the "procedural mold" and that is what sets it above and beyond everything else that CBS offers, at least, for me.

[wilnil]

aquarian1, those were really informative charts. But I have to wonder how the numbers would look if they could be "indexed" to factor in the overall decline in TV viewership over the past few years. Google "tv ratings decline" and you get a whole slew of articles, charts etc. showing how much trouble the industry is in, broadcast and cable both.

Based on those, I'm thinking a Netflix-type option might be the way to go for Abrams/Nolan and/or WB if they want to keep POI going. Especially given the ever-rising cost of cable service, you might see a lot more NON-millennials deciding to "cut the cord" in the next couple years.

No wonder CBS wants to protect its in-house shows over "outsiders" -- if download/streaming is the wave of the near future, only a network's own shows can be expected to make the network money in the long term.

[pcta]

Yup! If I didn't need something to attach my Roku to, I could live without a TV.

[kahauna]

Cable is just as bad, and a total ripoff. I ditched Comcast/Xfinity last November - I enjoy my Hulu, Funimation and CBS.com (for PoI) on my laptop and phone. Netflix is next, now that the deal is in place for the fall.

Edited May 16, 2015 by kahauna

[DramaQueen]

Kahuna, I totally agree with you there. When I heard there was even doubt about renewing Person Of Interest, I was stunned. Then to learn it is not even on the fall schedule and possibly being cut down to 13 eps and it's likely to be the last, I felt like I had been hit with a Mack truck. Besides Grey's Anatomy which I watch more out of habit. Person of Interest would be amongst one of the best shows I have ever watched. I know WB owns the show, but why would you deliberately set out to rid yourself of a totally unique TV show, POI is an original concept, and it is relevant in today's society. This show is well written, well acted and directed, it is in my opinion a masterpiece and I seriously doubt I will ever see anything as wonderful as POI again. I am furious, I really wanted to see where Nolan and Plageman planned to take this story, I read recently that they were hoping for at least six seasons, maybe seven, but no more than that. I feel cheated that I will not get to see what these two talented guys had planned for Reese and Finch. I also feel that this is unfair to the creators, actors and everyone who has work so hard to bring this awesome show to the fans. It is also unfair to the fans. I live in Australia, and it is shown here, so it make no difference to me where it ends up, I will find it somehow eventually. I am praying that Nolan and Co are trying to secure a better deal for this show. I am absolutely stunned that this network would ruin the best show on TV in a long while. Once I am done with the Good Wife, which CBS are also trying to destroy (that's what I heard recently). I doubt that I will follow any shows that are on this network. As it is I do not watch network TV in Australia because all we get at prime time is reality crap shows. Person of Interest was shown at 11pm, when it returned here the other night, way to go, stick it in a crappy timeslot so it's ratings end up in toilet. Why do the Nine Network pay for these excellent shows and then do things that tank them? I am so tempted to quit POI right now, as I am sure that they cannot wrap all the loose ends in 13 episodes. If they had left well enough alone and not moved it from Thursday 9pm to Tuesday at 10pm it would still be rating well. I know they want their own content in the plum prime time spot, but it just does not make sense to trash a quality shows like POI in order to get higher ratings for Elementary, which is not an original concept by any stretch. I've watched it once, and as much as love Lucy Lui, it is not enough to get me to stick with Elementary. To be honest I am now hoping one of their new shows tanks badly so they have no option but to bring POI back in November. Or alternatively find POI a network that will respect this quality, awesome show and give it the royal treatment. 

[FurryFury]

Once I am done with the Good Wife, which CBS are also trying to destroy (that's what I heard recently). I doubt that I will follow any shows that are on this network.

 

Not really, they've given TGW chance after chance. Its ratings have been awful for years but it still gets renewed because of critical acclaim (and there is also a rumor that rich people like it which matters for commercials).

 

Why do the Nine Network pay for these excellent shows and then do things that tank them?

 

Because it's a business. Quality may be sometimes (rarely) a factor, but overall, what matters is if the show makes money for the network. POI isn't owned by CBS AND has crappy ratings. Personally, I can't blame the network in this case. It hasn't been canceled abruptly, like so many equally good shows. It hasn't been aired out of order without any promotion. The only thing I would blame CBS for is something I'm not quite sure about - I feel like it's possible there's been some executive meddling into the creative direction of the show at some point, thus we got the "return to crime procedural roots" episodes in season 4, but even in this case, there's no proof. As for scheduling, well, I would prefer to see a more grand conclusion for the whole shebang, but 13 episodes is still way more than some of my favorite shows got in the past.

[GodsBeloved]

Kahuna, I totally agree with you there. When I heard there was even doubt about renewing Person Of Interest, I was stunned. Then to learn it is not even on the fall schedule and possibly being cut down to 13 eps and it's likely to be the last, I felt like I had been hit with a Mack truck. Besides Grey's Anatomy which I watch more out of habit. Person of Interest would be amongst one of the best shows I have ever watched. I know WB owns the show, but why would you deliberately set out to rid yourself of a totally unique TV show, POI is an original concept, and it is relevant in today's society. This show is well written, well acted and directed, it is in my opinion a masterpiece and I seriously doubt I will ever see anything as wonderful as POI again. I am furious, I really wanted to see where Nolan and Plageman planned to take this story, I read recently that they were hoping for at least six seasons, maybe seven, but no more than that. I feel cheated that I will not get to see what these two talented guys had planned for Reese and Finch. I also feel that this is unfair to the creators, actors and everyone who has work so hard to bring this awesome show to the fans. It is also unfair to the fans. I live in Australia, and it is shown here, so it make no difference to me where it ends up, I will find it somehow eventually. I am praying that Nolan and Co are trying to secure a better deal for this show. I am absolutely stunned that this network would ruin the best show on TV in a long while. Once I am done with the Good Wife, which CBS are also trying to destroy (that's what I heard recently). I doubt that I will follow any shows that are on this network. As it is I do not watch network TV in Australia because all we get at prime time is reality crap shows. Person of Interest was shown at 11pm, when it returned here the other night, way to go, stick it in a crappy timeslot so it's ratings end up in toilet. Why do the Nine Network pay for these excellent shows and then do things that tank them? I am so tempted to quit POI right now, as I am sure that they cannot wrap all the loose ends in 13 episodes. If they had left well enough alone and not moved it from Thursday 9pm to Tuesday at 10pm it would still be rating well. I know they want their own content in the plum prime time spot, but it just does not make sense to trash a quality shows like POI in order to get higher ratings for Elementary, which is not an original concept by any stretch. I've watched it once, and as much as love Lucy Lui, it is not enough to get me to stick with Elementary. To be honest I am now hoping one of their new shows tanks badly so they have no option but to bring POI back in November. Or alternatively find POI a network that will respect this quality, awesome show and give it the royal treatment. 

How has CBS ruined this show? According to you, this is show is a "well written, well acted and directed" masterpiece. How has CBS ruined that?

 

CBS is in the business of making money. If their profit from this show is dwindling (and presumably it is considering the dwindling ratings) it doesn't make business sense for them to keep the show especially if they can find something else that will give them more profits. There has got to be something in it for CBS for them to keep a show on their network.

[stealinghome]

What's most frustrating for me about all this is that PoI's ratings actually aren't that bad. Sure, they're not what they were two years ago in a much cushier time slot--but no one's are. Ratings for network shows are dropping across the board.

 

This season, PoI ranked 6 of 16 dramas on CBS. This chart is a really handy comparison. It was CBS' #2 10pm show, less than a tenth of a demo point behind the #1 10pm show, NCIS:LA--1.60 to 1.53. And it got those almost-as-good numbers despite a) a weaker lead-in (2.31 to 2.08), b) a time slot that has traditionally been death, c) incredible pre-emption fuckery from CBS, and d) significantly less promotion from CBS. And, despite all that and despite its slightly lower demo numbers, it actually pulled more total viewers than NCIS:LA. Moreover, CBS gave full-season orders to six dramas that had lower ratings than PoI (sometimes dramatically so)--Madame Secretary, CSI: Cyber, Blue Bloods, Elementary, Hawaii 5-0, and The Good Wife (1.22 ! ). Pretty much any way you slice it, imo this isn't really about the ratings--it's about syndication. Those six shows (assuming the younger ones hit syndication, which I think is questionable for at least Madame Secretary) will make money in syndication for CBS. PoI won't because it's not CBS-owned. If CBS owned PoI, renewal/number of episodes wouldn't even be a question, and CBS would treat this show so.much.better.

[FurryFury]

It's about ratings too. It's not just the average that matters, the latest few episodes have got progressively worse numbers. But overall, I think the fact that CBS doesn't own the show is the main reason for it being shelved, yes.

 

Moreover, CBS gave full-season orders to six dramas that had lower ratings than PoI (sometimes dramatically so)--Madame Secretary, CSI: Cyber, Blue Bloods, Elementary, Hawaii 5-0, and The Good Wife (1.22 ! ).

 

Well, Madam Secretary was renewed back when its ratings weren't as disastrous, I've already written about TGW, while Elementary is really all about syndication, I've heard they have a very lucrative deal for some reason. 

[Princess Lucky]

I do think that ultimately it's all because PoI is not produced/owned by CBS (because, indeed, its ratings are not that bad comparatively). And I also think that a show with PoI's S1/S2 momentum that was produced by CBS would not have necessarily been moved to 10 o'clock after only 2 seasons. The move was what brought on the big ratings drop (along with, eventually, the gradual serialisation and the overall ratings drop for network tv in general).

 

So, while I don't think CBS ruined the show('s ratings), I do think that CBS didn't do much to promote or cushion it. The PoI people have always been left to their own devices; the downside is the decreasing ratings and, now, a limited episode order. But there was also an upside; the fact that CBS never really meddled with the show's content and the plot. Frankly, I'll take it.

[GodsBeloved]

I do think that ultimately it's all because PoI is not produced/owned by CBS 

I got my TVGuide yesterday. There is an article about 7 rules for the new season. One rule was about ownership. Since more and more people are streaming, it is better for networks to have in house produced shows because its the owner who profits from that medium. It may have even said that is the case with DVR as well. I will check it when I get home.

 

But anywho, if I am understanding it correctly, CBS would only make money when people watch PoI live. 

[DramaQueen]

Sorry about that people; It must have seemed as though I was referring to CBS in the past tense. What I mean is what they are planning to do the show. As for whether it should have been moved to Tuesdays at 10pm, the ratings numbers reflect that POI started losing viewers right around when they moved it and I also feel that the lack of promotion has hurt this show. If it were own by CBS, then I really think it would have been renewed like other shows were that had a lower audience. I guess a reacted with shock based on what I feel about the show and I did not know at first that it was owned by WB. I really hope we get some answers as to what the creators have up their sleeve, given that Nolan said recently that he did not see Season 5 as POI's last.

[orza]

The chart upthread shows that the show lost almost as many viewers in season 2 as in seasons 3 and 4 combined. Season 2 is when Root and Shaw were introduced and the whole AI storyline started. Greer made his first appearance in 2.13. It was clear by the end of season 2 what direction the show was going in. All shows evolve over time but this show has changed so much it is barely recognizable anymore. They reused the title and 3 of the original cast members,to make a new show that, apparently, is not appealing to many original viewers.

 

I watched the season 4 finale to see what the setup for season 5 was. If Elias and Control don't survive and the machine is not spitting out any numbers, at least for a while, the show has lost all appeal for me. I am not interested in a sci-fi AI story of two machines battling it out for supremacy. Greer and his henchmen are utterly boring. And I really have no interest in watching any show that has Amy Acker in a leading role with her annoying little girl voice. Sarah Shahi can also stay on maternity leave indefinitely. I don't miss her.

[FurryFury]

Well, I, for one, am not (and was not) interested in watching a boring by-the-numbers procedural about two middle-aged men (as much as I love Finch). As far as I'm concerned, the sci-fi stuff  and the AI storyline (plus 2 kick-ass female characters) brought new blood into the show and convinced me to give it another chance.

Also, Amy Acker is a great actress. She was a huge draw for me when I've decided to binge the show.

[Coxfires]

I personnally never was bored by the two first seasons and didn't care that it was middle aged men, I found both characters engaging as well as the progression about their relationship. However, I just as well loved how the show progressed in S3. The addition of Shaw and Root was great, and helped the story take a new dimension but l don't pitch it as "boring procédural" vs "serialized AI SL"

The show always had great Quality in its writing and acting from D1, and as great as Shaw and Root are, I personnally wouldn't watch just for them.

[prican58]

I am willing to just wait and see what happens with this show. TPTB all know how popular it is with its fan base and if it's going to land somewhere else. 

I'm guessing CBS is done with it. If WB or Netflix or whomever wants to add a jewel it will. we'll know soon enough. Thirteen episodes, if done right, can provide a satisfying end. 

 

I just want to see a kick ass show.

Edited June 5, 2015 by prican58

[Bort]

Well, I, for one, am not (and was not) interested in watching a boring by-the-numbers procedural about two middle-aged men (as much as I love Finch). As far as I'm concerned, the sci-fi stuff  and the AI storyline (plus 2 kick-ass female characters) brought new blood into the show and convinced me to give it another chance.

Also, Amy Acker is a great actress. She was a huge draw for me when I've decided to binge the show.

Yeah, I started watching for Amy Acker and it was a real struggle for me to get through the first couple of seasons there. I liked the serial format over the case-of-the-week stuff.

[MrWhyt]

Well, I, for one, am not (and was not) interested in watching a boring by-the-numbers procedural about two middle-aged men (as much as I love Finch).

Yeah, what's the point of having another CBS procedural? I'd rather the authors tell their own story and have low numbers than try to chase viewership.

[Gigi43]

Thought I'd share: So I was watching my beloved Yankees play last night on my CW affiliate "PIX11" and there were commercials for PoI and Elementary (it was a double commercial both times) coming weekends to PIX and weekdays to WGN in September! I was so excited!! I had heard about WGN previously but not any other channels. I would think thats some high profile commercial space, too. At least it's something positive.

[Mari]

Since we haven't gotten a start date, I'm assuming POI will start after the syndication runs have started.  It gives me hope for new viewers, simply because people would have a chance to start it from the beginning.  

[stealinghome]

Thought I'd share: So I was watching my beloved Yankees play last night on my CW affiliate "PIX11" and there were commercials for PoI and Elementary (it was a double commercial both times) coming weekends to PIX and weekdays to WGN in September! I was so excited!! I had heard about WGN previously but not any other channels. I would think thats some high profile commercial space, too. At least it's something positive.

The fact that PoI will be running on the CW is a) innately hilarious given the CW's other slate of shows! but also b) interesting given that the CW is part of Warner Brothers. It suggests to me that the WB still sees life in PoI, which is a good sign for the WB pursuing a second life at Netflix when CBS cancels the show.

 

Agree that it's definitely good for marketing--both the high-profile commercial space and the fact that it will be on the CW in general. Especially as the assholes at CBS have chosen not to show reruns this summer (like for real, could they make it any clearer that they actively want the show to die?), any little bit helps.

Edited July 27, 2015 by stealinghome

[wilnil]

Gigi43 is in the same TV market as I am (the NYC megalopolitan area), though I haven't seen the POI promo on Ch. 11 yet.

But it's worth noting that while WPIX is a CW *affiliate,* it's owned (as is WGN) by Tribune Broadcasting, which has no ownership stake in The CW. My guess is that Warner signed an overall syndication deal with the Tribune stations that lets them do the weekdays on WGN/weekends on the local stations scheduling.

But several of Tribune's stations *are* CW affiliates, so Warner may be keeping an eye on how well POI does there to see if it's worth finding the show a new first-run home if/when CBS pulls the plug.

[Karen885]

Does anyone know when this will be on netflix? I missed a couple episodes and since CBS is refusing to show repeats I'm looking for a way to catch up

[stealinghome]

Does anyone know when this will be on netflix? I missed a couple episodes and since CBS is refusing to show repeats I'm looking for a way to catch up

To my knowledge no one knows yet. I wish they'd hurry up and do it!

[Bort]

"Fall" is the most concrete Netflix release date I've been able to find.

[stealinghome]

And I should say, ditto for WGN airings--I've only seen "Coming This Fall!", not a specific date.

 

I would guess that the show will be all over announcing it on social media when specific dates are pinned down, though.

[FormerMod-a1]

Looks like it's available on Netflix now.  

[stealinghome]

But not streaming yet, right? I know they've had the discs for a while.

[Karen885]

It's not on netflix yet, I just checked mine. Google says it isn't part of the August new releases or September. Maybe October! They really don't make it easy to catch up. I missed 3 episodes last season, I want to watch them.

[FormerMod-a1]

For me it's on Netflix, but not streaming.

[Bort]

Yeah, it's supposed to be released on Netflix for streaming in the "fall." I'll get a notification when it happens, they send me emails when there's new content.

[FormerMod-a1]

I hadn't read people were specifying streaming, so when I see Netflix I think of the whole thing and not just streaming.  For that, same here, I think I heard "fall", for some reason Sept is in my head.

[kahauna]

This is my fave network show and I miss it SO MUCH.

[Holden McGroyne]

This may have been covered previously (I'm new here), but CBS is definitely taking the axe to POI. Why? Not because of low ratings. It's because they don't own the show and wouldn't make a ton by selling syndication rights. All the major networks do this. Think of all the great shows that mysteriously were not renewed.

[stealinghome]

According to this promo, PoI will begin airing on WGN on Monday August 31. I'm so annoyed--I just moved away from a region where I got WGN with basic cable to one where I don't, grar!

[kahauna]

I was able to upgrade my Dish HD package deal to include WGN, just in time.

[stealinghome]

We finally have a date! The first 3 seasons of PoI will be available on Netflix streaming on September 1, and S4 on September 22.

[Karen885]

Finally! I can finally watch the 3 episodes l missed last year.

[stealinghome]

Yay, PoI is officially on Netflix today! Would anyone be interested in doing a (very slow) rewatch to celebrate? If there's enough people, could we make a thread?

[Bort]

Heh, Netfix remembers that I watched both seasons 1 and 2, it has me queued up at season 3.

[stonehaven]

You have to search for POI..;as it's not listed as being a recent add on but it IS on streaming at netflix today..my ROKU searchy thingy doesn't list it as being on Netflix yet...

I'm excited..I need a break from my binge watching early seasons of NCIS...

[gatopretoNYC]

Does anyone know if POI will be airing from the beginning again on a regular schedule on WGN, like, one episode a night, after this binge thing? I've tried to find out online, to no avail. I would really like to watch the whole series again but I can't do 3 hours a night. 

btw, I have a dvr, but it's too close to full to handle 3 hours a night, too! 

Edited September 2, 2015 by gatopretoNYC

[kahauna]

Yay, PoI is officially on Netflix today! Would anyone be interested in doing a (very slow) rewatch to celebrate? If there's enough people, could we make a thread?

That would be fun - count me in!

[FormerMod-a1]

Replied about rewatch possibilities in the Small Talk thread.

[kechara]

Not on my netflix

[Just Here]

Season premiere date finally announced...

 

CBS is making up for lost time where Person of Interest‘s long-delayed fifth season is concerned. The Eye network has announced that POI will air twice a week — Mondays and Tuesdays at 10/9c — beginning in early May.

 

The J.J. Abrams drama will launch Season 5 on Tuesday, May 3, with Episode 2 airing the following Monday, May 9 (and then Episode 3 on Tuesday, May 10, and so on). The show’s season finale is slated to fall on Tuesday, June 21.

Via TVLine.com (emphasis added).  Also, here's the original CBS press release.

[fastiller]

Sounds very much like a 'burn off' move!

[FormerMod-a1]

Wow, they really are burning it off.  On the plus side, the impatient side of me will be happy.

[stealinghome]

That's nuts. Those will be a great six weeks, but wow, the burn off is serious!