S02.E11: Poe Way Out

[formerlyfreedom]

Joanna, Freya and Wendy travel back in time to revisit one of their past lives in order to retrieve a powerful but dangerous weapon that may be the only way to destroy Nikolaus for good. Back in East End, Nikolaus is preparing for a battle and also has an unsuspecting Ingrid on his side. Meanwhile, Dash discovers the true identity of his one night stand, and Killian attempts to break his and Freya’s tragic cycle.

 

[HunterHunted]

Ugh this episode was a slog. The endless scenes of grandfather pontificating, the endless Poexposition, the dreadful scenes with Agent DTF, this was the worst. I have to believe the writers hate Poe because that's the only way the Freya was his muse makes any sense. The FBI agent is lucky Dash is an unhinged psycho. Anyone else would have an easy defense by claiming that the FBI agent has ample opportunity to plant evidence during her many visits to his house.

[Bort]

So with this retcon, how is it that Wendy didn't recognize Killian as a past-life encounter? Joanna I give a pass to, since she was so hopped up on opium, she might not remember what Poe looked like.

I'm glad it turns out that Ingrid is attempting a coup on dear old granddad, I was about to think she'd lost her damn mind.

[GaT]

They've only got 2 episodes left, & they waste it on some strange story that happens in the past? WTF is wrong with these people? Why do we care if Killian was Edgar Allan Poe in the past? Why do we care if Joanna killed Freya in the past? The whole thing is stupid. The only useful thing we found out is that Ingrid isn't as stupid as we thought. 

[RachelKM]

WTF was that?  I don't care about Killian anyway, but making Edgar Allan Poe?   His life is pretty well documented.   Also, him being Poe had almost nothing to do with the story.

 

I hate Agent Hot-Pants.  She's just ridiculous.  And even if Dash is a psycho, the fact that she's been in his house under at least a semi false pretense socially and snooping should compromise anything she brought in.  She had ample time to plant anything.  I don't really understand why she suspects him anyway.  She was investigating they ritual murders, of which his is legitimately innocent and had no knowledge.  The body just floated to the surface and has not been identified, so what connects it to Dash?

 

So with this retcon, how is it that Wendy didn't recognize Killian as a past-life encounter? Joanna I give a pass to, since she was so hopped up on opium, she might not remember what Poe looked like.

I'm glad it turns out that Ingrid is attempting a coup on dear old granddad, I was about to think she'd lost her damn mind.

Ingrid is still a damn idiot and this plan is completely insane since tricking Grampa Unicron seems unlikely to succeed for long; but at least she doesn't seem to as big an idiot as it seemed last week when she initially chose to stay.

 

As for why Wendy didn't recognize Killian, it really hasn't made sense for a while. How is it neither Wendy nor Joanna had much contact with him the apparent multitude of times Freya was in ill-fated love with him over their lives?  Or for that matter, if Freddie recognized Killian from Asgard and he apparently did something dramatic in the twins' lives there, why wouldn't they know him already?  Dash too since it seems that his reincarnation and lives are tied to Freya and Killian too. And why was Poe a Killian life, but apparently a mortal?  Ugh, this show.

Edited September 30, 2014 by RachelKM

[Primetimer]

Witches of East End has too many episodes, so to kill time we get some nonsense about Edgar Allan Poe.

Read the story

[iMonrey]

Why on earth is Dash sleeping in the attic?!? Surely he has a room somewhere in that huge mansion, that he has all to himself. He wasn't sleeping up in the attic back when Penelope was still alive was he? I mean, when he brings these women home what do they think when he takes them up to the attic to have sex with them? He's already got the dead-eyed look of a serial killer as it is, the attic thing would just be the clincher.

 

The only thing I can think of is that they created this huge attic set for Dash to find the family grimoire and they didn't want it to go to waste.

 

The whole Edgar Allen Poe thing was stupid, I'll admit. And whose spirit was Freya supposed to be possessed by? They referenced him by name several times as though we were supposed to know who it was. 

 

I did kind of like the idea that Joanna always knew someday she'd travel back into the past to retrieve the Magic Box, because in 1848 her future self appeared to her and took it.

[magicdog]

 

The whole Edgar Allen Poe thing was stupid, I'll admit. And whose spirit was Freya supposed to be possessed by? They referenced him by name several times as though we were supposed to know who it was.

 

This.  They mentioned the name yet other than he was the spirit of a psychopath who keeps killing every woman that remind him of his sister, we don't know why there is a connection.  Had the spirit been a nameless demon, perhaps it would have been more palatable. 

 

 

 

I did kind of like the idea that Joanna always knew someday she'd travel back into the past to retrieve the Magic Box, because in 1848 her future self appeared to her and took it.

 

That's the infamous paradox.  If Joanna came for the box once before, then what happened to it?  Does this mean she has to beat her previous time traveling self to get it from her 1840s self?

 

Wonder how they're going to save Killian since he's taken the soul cleansing potion.  An odd thought came over me about this scenario;  The family Grimoire was purported to be the most complete magical tomes - a spell for all sorts of things not otherwise found.  Wouldn't a solution to Killian's star crossed love curse have been there rather than developed by Lil' Eva and her friend at the shop?   One would think soul cleansing potions would be better known.

 

I was taken by surprise that Joanna was a dope smoker, then again, the tragedy of separating from Victor and the girls' curse finally sent her looking for something to numb the pain. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

The whole Edgar Allen Poe thing was stupid, I'll admit. And whose spirit was Freya supposed to be possessed by? They referenced him by name several times as though we were supposed to know who it was.

 

Was Dash also somewhere in Baltimore in 1848, performing slam poetry at a grungy bar somewhere across town from the brothel ? Or was he simply Poe's lesser known brother ? </snark>

[Mu Shu]

I wonder what historical figure Killian will show up as next?    William Sherman?  Billy the Kid?   Helen Keller?

 

Eva 2.0 borrowed her Noo Yawk accent straight from A League of Their Own, except Madonna who is generally a bad actress was 10x better in comparison.   It was as awful as her Jamaican "Kendra, the Vampire Slayer"  accent. 

 

This whole episode was a cluster fuck.    Oh, and I really do buy Dash the Creeper as a serial killer. 

[RachelKM]

Eva 2.0 borrowed her Noo Yawk accent straight from A League of Their Own, except Madonna who is generally a bad actress was 10x better in comparison.   It was as awful as her Jamaican "Kendra, the Vampire Slayer"  accent. 

 

I thought she was doing her best Rosie Perez. And by best I mean not at all good. 

 

Was Dash also somewhere in Baltimore in 1848, performing slam poetry at a grungy bar somewhere across town from the brothel ? Or was he simply Poe's lesser known brother ? </snark>

He did mention his brother Henry having recently died.  But Henry Poe died nearly 2 decades before this episode was supposed to take place.  It's like the writers can't even be bothered google historic figures.  

 

I was also confused about the spirit possession and who it was meant to be,  At first I thought it was supposed to be recently/nearly 20 years dead Henry Poe and their was a sister named Rosalie who could have been the sister "Rose" to whom he kept referring (seriously, as long as you're f'ing up everything else about the Poes, why not make Henry a serial killer who also killed their sister (who actually out lived both of her brothers)?)   But then the spirit had a totally different name and I was lost.  I still don't understand why they bothered with Poe at all.  It had nothing whatever to do with the story other than some stupid references to Freya being Annabelle Lee.

 

Side not to my gripe about why Joanna and Wendy don't know Killian and Dash, I'm also confused as to their incarnations.  I get that Killian and Freya are star-crossed, but how does that work?  Do Killian and Dash also die young to keep pace with Freya?  Because otherwise, they'd be out of sync.  Or do they meet up in alternate lives? And how is Dash involved?

Edited September 30, 2014 by RachelKM

[Bill C.]

I thought the spirit was named Ambrose or something like that, but for once I wasn't really paying attention.

 

I guess this was a deliberate "breather" episode between the previous two and the season-ending pair next week; that's the only way I can reconcile it being so remarkably dull.  And this is/was the episode where we see Dash pull a Dexter on a corpse, Freya (well, 1848!Freya) finally live up to the Beauchamp family name and get reckless as hell with magic, and Joanna introduces the Autobot Matrix of Leadership...er, Anima Aucupe.  Which of course is the one weapon capable of stopping Grandpa Unicron (who meanwhile disguises himself as Tommy to steal a woman's heart--literally).  Congratulations, WOEE, you made time travel boring.

 

On the other hand, this episode did give us opium-fiend 1848!Joanna, and that in a bizarre way might have been one of the subtly best Joanna moments of the season.  Go figure.

 

Side not to my gripe about why Joanna and Wendy don't know Killian and Dash, I'm also confused as to there incarnation.  I get that Killian and Freya are star-crossed, but how does that work?  Do Killian and Dash also die young to keep pace with Freya?  Because otherwise, they'd be out of sync.  Or do they meet up in alternate lives? And how is Dash involved?

 

This appears to put a new wrinkle into the show's apparent rule for the Beauchamps'/Gardiners' resurrections.  Until this episode, the inference (and what little dialogue we've gotten about it seemed to back it up) was that Freya, Ingrid, Killian, and Dash all resurrected as witches and warlocks with full magical powers...but now Killian was a plain old washed-up Edgar Allan Poe in a past life?  So either it's simply his soul that keeps being resurrected time and again and only most of the time into a warlock's body, or he was indeed a warlock and never realized it.  We've yet to see a previous Dash that was mortal, so this can go either way.

[txhorns79]

She's just ridiculous.  And even if Dash is a psycho, the fact that she's been in his house under at least a semi false pretense socially and snooping should compromise anything she brought in.  She had ample time to plant anything.

 

It's less about whether she planted anything, it's more about what a court might think of a government agent using sex as a pretense to conduct a search.  The whole thing is goofy.   

 

[ian nottingham]

I wonder what historical figure Killian will show up as next?    William Sherman?  Billy the Kid?   Helen Keller?

...

This whole episode was a cluster fuck.    Oh, and I really do buy Dash the Creeper as a serial killer. 

 

thanks for helen keller! and thanks for the cluster fuck! what a glorious post!

anyone noticed that the positive (and even the neutral) feedback on the show seems to gradually disappear..?  i got to admit that ive also almost arrived to that point where im watching it mostly because ive got kind of used to seeing those peoples faces every once in a while and driven by the unpleasant curiosity about how long theyre actually able to delay the final hard landing on rock bottom. im afraid with poe theyve yet again effectively lost a few hundred feet of height so that the title of this episode might soon prove to be a bad omen for the entire show.. id really like to know for how many episodes the cast have actually signed their contracts.. and watching the show i just cant stop wondering how many percent of them actually still feel comfortable about their involvement in this..

[ian nottingham]

and why does agent hot-pants TASTE the poisonous quicksilver stuff from dashes fireplace!? sorry, but if she doesnt turn out to be a witch or anything similar herself, this is just another needlessly absurd detail...

[Bort]

and why does agent hot-pants TASTE the poisonous quicksilver stuff from dashes fireplace!? sorry, but if she doesnt turn out to be a witch or anything similar herself, this is just another needlessly absurd detail...

I'm glad you brought that up because that was all kinds of gross. Mysterious black gooey substance in the corner? Taste it, why not? I can think of a few reasons why. Plus, she was suspicious of it because she'd previously found it ON A CORPSE. Does that mean she tasted the icky corpse goo?

[GaT]

I wonder what historical figure Killian will show up as next?    William Sherman?  Billy the Kid?   Helen Keller?

 

 

Oh PLEEEEEEASE let it be Helen Keller, that would be 100 times awesome. 

[Rahul]

WTF was that steaming pile of shit? I felt like I was watching a really badly written episode of Poltergeist: The Legacy and kept thinking if any of the producers of Penny Dreadful happened to catch this installment by accident, they would be rolling with laughter. 

 

 Mysterious black gooey substance in the corner? Taste it, why not? 

 

The only reason I could think of was that we now know that Agent DTF is also DTSwallow. Who mandates these badly written softcore porn sequences? Lifetime? Or are the writers just throwing it in for shits and giggles?

 

Why on earth is Dash sleeping in the attic?!? Surely he has a room somewhere in that huge mansion, that he has all to himself. He wasn't sleeping up in the attic back when Penelope was still alive was he?

 

Thank you!! This has been bothering me for weeks, and I was going to bring it up myself. His "bedroom" set does not even remotely resemble the season one bedroom. It makes no sense at all.

 

Sadly I seemed to have been right about "Smells Like King Spirit" being the high point of the season. Looks like it really was a fluke after all. If this is episode is any indication of what we can look forward to in season 3, I'm completely alright with the show getting the axe after this year.

[NutMeg]

Thank you, all of you writing in this forum! The snark here alone would keep me watching, if this show wasn't my guilty pleasure - you never know how bad it will get in a so-bad-it's-fun way, and sometime it still surprises! 

 

Ambrose something looked like an early version of Jack the Ripper - he didn't cut his victims, but he seemed to target prostitutes or those he saw as prostitutes, didn't he? Maybe in his next incarnation, Killian will be (possessed by the spirit of) a traveling to America Jack - before he evolves into Helen Keller, of course, that is gold and I don't want to miss it!

[ian nottingham]

you never know how bad it will get in a so-bad-it's-fun way...

 

yeah, that crossed my mind too that they could turn defeat into victory by a gradual format switch to comedy.. i wonder if anything like that has ever been done before..

Edited September 30, 2014 by ian nottingham

[ian nottingham]

oh, something else.. did i get this right that back in 1848 the whole clan were working as hookers..? any comments on that..?

[Rahul]

oh, something else.. did i get this right that back in 1848 the whole clan were working as hookers..? any comments on that..?

 

Yeah...I mean, I've heard of "keeping it in the family," but prostitution as family business? What kind of mother encourages her two daughters to follow suit? They made a clear point of establishing that Freya was not merely a bar wench but an "entertainer" as well. Gross.

 

Anyone notice Daniel Di Tomasso was the only one who even attempted an old timey American accent? Honestly, isn't that something they would go over at the table read? The amalgam of accents make no sense considering their common origin in Asgard and the fact that they continued to live with one another.

[Grammaeryn]

I actually didn't mind Daniel's attempt at Poe. Between the accents and mannerisms it was a definite acting choice so points for trying. I also enjoyed the period costumes. Plot? Dialogue? Just didn't register.

[Rahul]

I'm glad he committed to the accent to, but why didn't Freya, Ingrid and Wendy give it a whirl? It seemed like a misstep in direction to have some folks retain their 21st century line delivery, while others opted for more antiquated speech patters and mannerisms.

 

Apparently the family that whores together stays together!

[ian nottingham]

Yeah...I mean, I've heard of "keeping it in the family," but prostitution as family business? What kind of mother encourages her two daughters to follow suit? They made a clear point of establishing that Freya was not merely a bar wench but an "entertainer" as well. Gross.

 

yeah, my thoughts went the same direction. the show obviously trys to break a little "taboo" every now and then (e.g. by introducing joannas lesbian ex lover – yawn..), but i think they kind of overdid it with that brothel thing. i mean from my personal point of view it really doesnt matter what kinds of kinky past lives theyll surprise us with next, but i suppose there are loads of teen girls watching that crap who might indeed feel tempted to "follow suit".. after all tv unfortunately does have something like an educating effect and when im 15 and see that its okay that my favourite character from my favourite witch show was a drug dealer in one of her past lives and a whore in another that might indeed modify my way of looking at these things in a questionable manner..

Apparently the family that whores together stays together!

 

:D thanks for a good laugh...

Edited October 1, 2014 by ian nottingham

[txhorns79]

but i suppose there are loads of teen girls watching that crap who might indeed feel tempted to "follow suit"..

 

I am not a teenage girl, nor a prostitute, but I would have trouble believing that any girl is going to be inspired to become a hooker based on this show. 

[ian nottingham]

I am not a teenage girl, nor a prostitute, but I would have trouble believing that any girl is going to be inspired to become a hooker based on this show. 

 

yeah, i didnt make that point so clear.. so, i dont think either that anyone will actually "be inspired" to become a prostitute by this one episode of the show, but i do think that for people who grow up in an environment where prostitution or drug dealing in fact are tangible alternatives (and i know that for many people its hard to actually imagine growing up in such an environment) its not of big help to be fed with unrealistic sugar-coated images of those lifestyles by the media all the time – i dont think exclusively of "witches of eastend".. but i see why someone might find this comment a bit over the top regarding this particular example. it was just another thought crossing my mind.. thanks for the reaction anyway..

[Mu Shu]

Of course Joanna encouraged the girls to hook.  Laudanum ain't cheap.   I must say it was hilarious that she was tripping balls and uninterested in saving Freya. 

[txhorns79]

I must say it was hilarious that she was tripping balls and uninterested in saving Freya.

 

I like to think Joanna goes through cycles depending on whether she actually likes the current versions of Freya and Ingrid.  Sometimes the girls dying destroys her, while other times, she's just like "Whatever, I'll just birth you again in a few days."   

[iMonrey]

 

Yeah...I mean, I've heard of "keeping it in the family," but prostitution as family business? What kind of mother encourages her two daughters to follow suit? They made a clear point of establishing that Freya was not merely a bar wench but an "entertainer" as well. Gross.

 

I'm not sure they meant to imply that Ingrid and Freya were prostitutes. They identified the establishment as an opium den, not a brothel. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but "entertainer" doesn't necessarily translate into "hooker," or else I would have expected a much stronger reaction from present day Freya upon learning this little tidbit. We saw her telling fortunes and tending bar, that may have been the extent of her entertaining. And despite the era I have a hard time believing Joanna and Wendy would willingly put Freya and Ingrid into that position given where they came from and their "royal" status.

[ian nottingham]

I'm not sure they meant to imply that Ingrid and Freya were prostitutes. They identified the establishment as an opium den, not a brothel. Maybe that's splitting hairs, but "entertainer" doesn't necessarily translate into "hooker," or else I would have expected a much stronger reaction from present day Freya upon learning this little tidbit. We saw her telling fortunes and tending bar, that may have been the extent of her entertaining. And despite the era I have a hard time believing Joanna and Wendy would willingly put Freya and Ingrid into that position given where they came from and their "royal" status.

 

ive downloaded the episode from itunes and the lines are:

freya: "is this some sort of nightclub?"

wendy: "it's more of an opium-den-slash-brothel."

and concerning the fortune telling joanna says:

"the two of you had a side business telling fortunes and offering luck spells."

the fact that freya answers "because im not just a barmaid" to poe to me doesnt seem to be a good argument for her being a hooker because i think the implied statement here is more: "but a witch too", but the lines above imo do strongly suggest that they were all part of the "main business". on the other hand its quite clear that and why the show doesnt get explicit about this topic.. however, i think the hints are quite clear.. nevertheless your deductions are totally valid too and someone who wants to see it your way certainly can. so far the issues open for interpretation.

Edited October 4, 2014 by ian nottingham

[NutMeg]

Yeah, you both raise valid points. My understanding was initially put on a titillating show, but it could have been meet and greet also. I still don't see prostitution as such based on Freya's reaction, but it's possible that she has no idea what "entertainment" would have meant back then. 

[Rahul]

I'm not sure they meant to imply that Ingrid and Freya were prostitutes. They identified the establishment as an opium den, not a brothel.

 

Actually it was a brothel. Here is the dialogue, taken from the captions which I took the liberty of downloading. Freya asks "Is this some sort of nightclub?" to which either Wendy or Joanna responded "It's more of an opium den-slash-brothel."

 

Also, the fact that they refer to their profession as "entertainment" with deliberate quotes is very telling that they are in the prostitution business. At one point when Freya is possessed by the malevolent spirit of Ambrose Bancroft and calls Joanna an "opium smoking whore." I stand by my assessment of the lot of them being whores in the nineteenth century.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Rahul

[Mabinogia]

Edgar Allen Poe is one of my favorite writers so I was dubious going into this episode and, even with such low expectations, the show still managed to fall far, far below them. How the hell does their OTP make a seedy relationship between a famous writer and a whore boring? I mean, Poe and Hooker Freya were dull. Even duller than Killian and Freya and I didn't think that was possible.

 

Skipped all the Dash and the slutty agent stuff. Not even remotely interested in that.

 

Was surprised by Ingrid. Nicely done. It seemed refreshingly out of character for her to do something that...smart.

 

I liked Joanna better as an opium addict. lol

 

I think they were prostitutes or at least Victorian strippers lol. At best they were madams, living off the backs of other people's daughters, so I think I respect them more if they are whoring themselves as well. So that's what I'm going with.

 

What I'm unsure of is why Joanna wanted to take everyone with her? Did she think Daddy was going to kill them all while she was gone? Is her ego that huge to think that she's the only one who can stop him....oh, wait, she's the bestest witch in the whole wide Asgard. Whatever. I think that's actually a huge chunk of why I don't like her. Enough with "Joanna's the greatest ever". Sorry, tangent.

 

So, this show is slowly (or not so slowly) becoming soft core porn fanfic, right? Because there is a lot of random sex going on lately. I'm not necessarily complaining, OK, I am where Killian/Freya (in all times) is concerned because though they are both hot on their own, together they are bland and boring), just making an observation.

[natyxg]

Ugh this episode was a slog. The endless scenes of grandfather pontificating, the endless Poexposition, the dreadful scenes with Agent DTF, this was the worst. I have to believe the writers hate Poe because that's the only way the Freya was his muse makes any sense. The FBI agent is lucky Dash is an unhinged psycho. Anyone else would have an easy defense by claiming that the FBI agent has ample opportunity to plant evidence during her many visits to his house.

 

I was quite confused by this episode, tbh. Confused as in "what is the point? What were they thinking?". Who cares about what happened 160 years ago when the freaking King is back? It felt like filling, and a boring filling at that. Present day Joanna and Co sitting around talking about what happened 160 years ago was just lazy and boring.

 

Side not to my gripe about why Joanna and Wendy don't know Killian and Dash, I'm also confused as to their incarnations.  I get that Killian and Freya are star-crossed, but how does that work?  Do Killian and Dash also die young to keep pace with Freya?  Because otherwise, they'd be out of sync.  Or do they meet up in alternate lives? And how is Dash involved?

 

I like this show. I'm two episodes away from finishing it on Netflix and I'm sad that Lifetime didn't renew. It's entertaining. Plus it's female driven and I'm a sucker for those shows. Plus, witches! And I like the characters/actors (crushing on Ingrid!), so I tend to overlook the more forced stuff that kind of doesn't make sense sometimes, like how come their spells are in Latin when they're from another freaking dimension and should have their own spell language.

 

But THIS I can't ignore and it's bothering me a lot. Killian and Dash are warlocks and are supposed to be from Asgard, too. We know that Warlocks and witches live for centuries. That's the case with Frederick, Joanna, Victor, those incest twins, etc, and they are obviously tough to kill/die. Freya and Ingrid are the exception because they are cursed. So, Killian and Dash should be like everyone else. They should live for centuries and whatever, and if they die they should stay dead, like everyone else. Yet, they have mixed everything up in order to tell conflicting stories. They want to do a "soulmates through many lifetimes" story, in which case it makes more sense that Killian and Dash are human. But they are warlocks now, and have been in other lifetimes (at least Dash). So, did they just luck into being warlocks those times? They just happened to be a witch's children this time, and next time they may just be human? But Frederick mentioned that killian was in Asgard, and Ingrid said they're from there too. So... they came, died and their souls joined the human reincarnation system? What? Huh? Or are their souls tied to Freya's and Ingrid's, so they keep dying too so they can be reunited again, sometimes reincarnating as humans and other times as warlocks? Is Dash that cult guy Ingrid was in love with (his own grandfather)? What is going on?

 

It would be different if this whole thing was an actual issue in the show that seems like they will address at some point, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like just a major, HUGE plothole. Again, it seems like they have mixed up two possible story directions: the brothers being warlocks from Asgard too and Killian/Freya's doomed romance through many lifetimes and reincarnations. And it just makes no. fucking. sense.