The Paradise - General Discussion

[dcalley]

Editor's Note:

Discuss The Paradise here.

 

Season 2 of The Paradise starts on most PBS stations tonight at 8:00 ET.

 

Quote

 

Denise Lovett (Joanna Vanderham) is the bright-eyed country girl who finds more than just shop-girl work when she brings her clever ideas and ambition to The Paradise, a glamorous, Victorian-era department store. John Moray (Emun Elliott) is the store’s dashing and enigmatic owner, an entrepreneur with more than his share of passion -- and secrets.

...

Sundays, September 28-November 16, 2014, at 8pm ET

 

The season 2 overview does not excite me. The series was canceled earlier this year.

[LittleIggy]

What is the deal with Katherine's husband and the scene of him crying?

[twoods]

I loved season one and binge watched it on Netflix, but knowing how it was cancelled after season two, I don't know if it's worth it to get invested. First episode if season two is in the DVR so will see if it's worth it but just from reading the previews of the episode, doesn't look too good.

[Ms Lark]

I watched Season 2 on YouTube right after Season 1. Can't say it was overly memorable. I tend to confuse some of the characters from Mr. Selfridge with those on Paradise, even though I'm halfway through the novel -- it's quite long and a bit of a slog. (English translation from French; bears little resemblance to the TV show.) It is nice to watch in HD to see the costumes and sets better. There are also some interesting interviews with the cast on YouTube that explain some things.

[jordanpond]

What is the deal with Katherine's husband and the scene of him crying?

It appeared to me that he had been whipped and that his wounds were causing him pain.

[dcalley]

It appeared to me that he had been whipped and that his wounds were causing him pain.

Yes, probably during his military service.

 

This was rather boring for me. I think Miss Audrey's the only one I care about. And I like the little girl, Flora, though I worry about her fate.

[JudyObscure]

I wondered about Katherine's husband, too. I thought the whip marks looked too red to be old scars and wondered if Katherine had done it herself, although that would be awfully dark for a masterpiece selection.

[attica]

I'd've bailed on season 2 of this, but then they go and put Ben Daniels into the mix. He's always worth watching.

[editorgrrl]

I wondered about Katherine's husband, too. I thought the whip marks looked too red to be old scars and wondered if Katherine had done it herself, although that would be awfully dark for a masterpiece selection.

 

From a Radio Times interview with Ben Daniels:

[Tom Weston]’s ex-military. He was stationed in India during the mutiny and fifteen years ago an event happened while he was there that has marked him—you’ll understand what I mean by the end of episode one. It’s a secret he’s been carrying with him since then and he’s in constant fear of this secret being revealed so consequently wears this domineering, dominating mask as he goes about his business so no one can get in and find out who he is.

[twoods]

Did they change the actress that was working at the button display? That totally threw me off in the beginning because I liked her in season 1.

[Brattinella]

Dur.  Sorry.

Edited October 3, 2014 by Brattinella

[Fishy]

 

I watched Season 2 on YouTube right after Season 1

I must have done the same thing (it seems so long ago) because I watched and was wondering 'why is this all soo familiar??'

[editorgrrl]

Did they change the actress that was working at the button display? That totally threw me off in the beginning because I liked her in season 1.

 

Pauline (Ruby Bentall) worked in haberdashery (then birds) in Season 1. She's not in Season 2.

[editorgrrl]

Sorry to double post, but it was driving me batty. Clemence is played by Branka Katic, who's originally from Yugoslavia. She was Anna on HBO's Big Love, and the Lonely White Dove on HBO's Bored to Death.

[twoods]

Thanks- I just thought the new character was Pauline since I didn't catch her name.

Is Katherine crazy? She seems too proud to have a husband who cheats on her. I do like Walsh's daughter, so maybe Katherine loves her more than him.

No more Miss Angie? Hope her and the uncle come back for a bit.

[editorgrrl]

Is Katherine crazy? She seems too proud to have a husband who cheats on her. I do like Walsh's daughter, so maybe Katherine loves her more than him.

No more Miss Angie? Hope her and the uncle come back for a bit.

I thought Katherine was doing damage control. She's just not that into the guy, but no way in hell will she let Moray find out that her marriage is anything less than perfect.

I don't think Miss Audrey is coming back. If you like the actress, Sarah Lancashire, she's great in Last Tango in Halifax.

[Brattinella]

Never have I seen a more loathsome couple than Katherine and her leering, sleazy, DISGUSTING husband!  And to think they have power over poor, sweet Moray and Denise.  Ugh.  Hope they crash and burn in a spectacular way.

[treeofdreams]

Aww, Miss Audrey was my favorite character.

 

I suspect we will see some hijinks from Clara as she tries to get Tom Weston to give her Miss Audrey's position instead of Denise.

 

Katherine and Weston seem to have a rather complicated relationship - interesting.

 

The French woman planted a few seeds for thought for the women - too bad they didn't result in Miss Audrey being able to get married and still keep her job.

 

I love that Jonas saved Dudley (Dooley?) from Weston after Dudley/Dooley was so nasty to him.  Another complicated character; glad to see him back.

 

I find myself less interested in the relationship between Moray and Denise than in any of other storylines.

[AuntiePam]

So many similarities already to Mr. Selfridge and now we have another sophisticated woman charming the love interest of the shop girl. 

 

I'm not good with accents.  Is Clemence's accent really bad or is it just me?  Or is she an Englishwoman putting on French airs?

[editorgrrl]

So many similarities already to Mr. Selfridge and now we have another sophisticated woman charming the love interest of the shop girl. 

 

I'm not good with accents.  Is Clemence's accent really bad or is it just me?  Or is she an Englishwoman putting on French airs?

 

Clemence was played by Branka Katic, who's originally from Belgrade, Yugoslavia (present-day Serbia). Hence the accent.

 

In the Radio Times Q&A linked above, Ben Daniels compares The Paradise & Mr. Selfridge:

I know I’m not supposed to mention it, but – Mr Selfridge. It’s very similar – that seduction of people into buying material goods and it’s gone on since that time.

 

Did you watch Mr Selfridge?

 

Yes, I did, which I enjoyed very much.

 

Controversial... Since joining The Paradise, what do you think it has over Mr Selfridge?

 

I don’t know. It’s quite hard, isn’t it? Because they are very similar and yet they’re very different at the same time. I don’t want to answer that question. I don’t want “Paradise star Ben Daniels says…” Jeremy Piven has very good facial hair.

[dcalley]

Miss Audrey leaving significantly reduces my interest in this show, which wasn't that high to begin with.

[JudyObscure]

Dudley/Dooley played Fisher in "Lark Rise to Candleford," where he was so dreamy he had his own romantic music whenever he came on screen. Consequently I expected him to play a much bigger part here!

I also want to see something happen with the sexy kitchen wench and more shenanigans from Katherine.

Come on writers! Step up what you have, I don't really want new characters at this point.

[treeofdreams]

I hadn't realized there were so many cross over actors from Lark Rise.  Dudley/Dooley, Pauline, Tom Weston, Miss Audrey (her voice, anyway)...anyone else?

[Brattinella]

Well, we had impending bad weather here, and missed the last half hour or so of the new episode.  Can anyone fill me in, please?

[twoods]

Denise was in charge of doing the night out thing, so she orchestrated the music hall outing herself in one day and got the position after it was a success. Westin gouged his daughter's doll's eyes out while he was drinking (he's nutso) and don't know what else?

Katherine seems to be setting up Denise for some great fall, which is why she wanted Denise to get the position and Moray was trying to protect her.

[Brattinella]

Thanks very much for the info, twoods!  Oh boy, Weston is a piece of work, eh? And so is Katherine, quite a pair.

[treeofdreams]

And Jonas is back, seeming to switch loyalty to Weston, although probably only to work on Moray's behalf.

 

When Moray asked Denise not to apply for Miss Audrey's position he said that it wouldn't be long before he had the store back, maybe only a few months.  Did I miss something?  Have we seen anything to indicate how he is going about this?  Because that would be interesting to see in progress.

 

I loved seeing Jonas dancing a reel with Denise!

 

Expected more from Clara after she said she wouldn't let Denise be chosen over her again.  We missed the chance for some good shenanigans.  And why did Weston switch his backing from Clara to Denise?

 

I had been finding the Denise/Moray relationship a bit boring, but the dynamic certainly changed this episode.  She wants him to see her as his equal, not his "little champion" and that is not likely to happen.  What will happen now?!

Edited October 13, 2014 by treeofdreams

[attica]

Whoever designed the doll did a very good job of making it resemble Katherine.

 

Ben Daniels is indescribably hot, even when he's evil. He can make sitting in a chair look like the most interesting thing in a scene.

 

I kind of want Denise and Clara to throw out all the men (except for Jonas and Dudley) and run the store themselves.

[treeofdreams]

I was wondering about Denise and Moray never talking about the fact that when they married, Denise would have to give up her job at the Paradise.

 

Moray said he wanted to get married right away, and Denise wanted to wait (or was it the other way around?).  That would have ended Denise's job.  Was she expecting to help run the Paradise as his wife?  I don't think Weston and Katherine would have allowed that - especially since Moray isn't even running it any more.

 

This issue seems to be a glaring omission in the narrative.

Edited October 14, 2014 by treeofdreams

[twoods]

I don't understand as well about how Moray is planning on getting the Paradise back, unless he's trying to buy them out.

I do agree that Ben Daniels is sexy but he's a total ass. I know I should hate Katherine but I love how she's protective of Flora, and how she cared for those orphan girls last season.

I'm sensing some future sexy times for Weston and Clara? Liked their spark.

[BusyOctober]

I was feeling "meh" about this last season and now this season has me falling asleep during each episode.  I just can't stay interested.  It feels like there's very little forward momentum IMO.  Katherine and Weston should both have Snidely Whiplash mustaches to twirl while cackling from shadowy corners.  Intrigue!  Drama! Scandal!...YAWN.  I'm more interested in the other staff members.  I'd watch an hour of Clara, Sam, the cook etc

 

Like others mentioned, I don't think Moray and Denise have thought their relationship through.  He's expecting her to be his "Little Champion" wifey and applaud his triumphs...from a comfy chair at home... when he gets the store back (and how is that happening anyway??).  She plans to be head of Marketing or VP of Creative Design and ply her never fail, always successful marvelous ideas to the entire store.  It'd probably be a good idea for them to iron out these little details before they marry.

 

And that doll was creepy fugly!  I she "Annabelle's" French cousin?

[Brattinella]

That doll had EXACTLY Katherine's eyes!  Beady and black.  Yikes I hate that woman (and her dastardly husband, too).

[treeofdreams]

When Denise marries, she will have to give up all her ambitions and her Ideas.

 

When Moray walked away from marrying Katherine, he chose Denise over the store.  Will she do the same for him, or, when it comes down to it, will she choose her career over him?

[zoey1996]

I can't figure out Katherine.  In one turn, she's a cold-hearted bitch, and the next she's being so understanding and loving with Flora.  I think her husband, Tom Weston, is certifiably nuts, and she's probably wondering what the hell she got herself into, marrying him.

I felt sad for Susie; it's unlikely she'll ever get the love and care from her mother that every child should have.  But how did women like her mother survive back then, with no money and no support?  No rehab or support groups like we have today.

I'm certain Jonas is secretly trying to overthrow Weston, but he's being quite devious about it.  I'm not sure I want Moray to succeed in getting the store back, but I sure want it out of the Westons' control!

[dcalley]

I kept doing other things while this episode was on. Four more episodes feels like a chore.

 

I do like how Katherine and Flora do seem to care about each other. They're happy to have someone other than the horrible man they live with, I suppose.

 

Myrtle--geez, all that and you can't handle it at the last second? Don't be surprised if no one gives you a chance ever again.

[twoods]

Myrtle is so annoying. Doesn't she understand why people don't give her a chance? She's so annoying.

Katherine and Flora are so great together. Too bad they live with such a dipshit.

It's nice seeing Edward again.

[LADreamr]

I think the whole place should go to Dudley.  He seems like the most (only?) adult person working there.  Why have we never seen his family?

 

Much as I like Moray, he just seems like a bit of a dip this season.  I would like to have seen him a bit more savvy, even devious.  Flirting with Katherine?  Really?

[twoods]

If he said "coffee" to Katherine one more time in that scene, I was going to turn the episode off. I also would have liked to see Dudley's wife or kids- maybe come by the shop to see him work? What a waste on a good actor.

[whatsatool]

I thought Moray was being played by a different actor this season.

Jonas has taken over as my favorite character.

[juice318]

Jonas is my favorite character this season, too. I miss Sarah Lancashire's Miss Audrey; I understand why she left, but with the exception of Jonas, it seems the grown-ups have left The Paradise in the hands of the worst cliques from middle school.

[Brattinella]

Ugh!  I am so sick of all the back-stabbing bullshit on this show!  Everyone is deceiving everyone else, it's just hateful.

 

And another thing.  How could Katherine NOT say "What the hell are you doing with my watch?"

Edited October 27, 2014 by Brattinella

[treeofdreams]

What is up with Moray torpedoing Denise?  Didn't want her to apply for head of ladies wear, didn't want her to give the tea party, doesn't want her to go to Paris...he seems unhappy with her successes.   He talks about "when we are running the Paradise" but I suspect it will be only about HIM running the Paradise, and getting credit for her ideas.  I hope she goes to Paris anyway.

 

And what is Weston's game with Denise?  Why is he favoring her at every turn, and putting her forward to showcase her talents?  Is this part of some plot, or has he taken a fancy to her?  Is he trying to stir up trouble between Denise and Moray?  He has an awfully warm look in his eyes when he smiles at her - about the only time we ever see him smile.  Creepy.

Edited October 27, 2014 by treeofdreams

[zoey1996]

And another thing.  How could Katherine NOT say "What the hell are you doing with my watch?"

 

Katherine (or is it Mrs. Weston? - she changes her mind often on how she wants to be addressed) probably didn't want to subject Flora to another tantrum from her father.

Poor Sam.  She loves him, she loves him not.

Myrtle cake - hee!  Baking for the Food Hall does keep her busy, but she's still somewhat of a busybody.

I think Weston is stirring up trouble between Moray and Denise to split up what would surely be a formidable partnership when they marry.  If they ever do.  Moray wants control of The Paradise and has trouble letting Denise do what needs be done because then he doesn't feel in control.  He's playing a dangerous game with Mrs. Weston that could easily backfire on him.  Jonas is one crafty fellow and seems to enjoy stirring the pot.

[treeofdreams]

They still haven't addressed the issue that if Denise and Moray get married, Denise will have to give up her job.  If Moray manages to regain ownership of the Paradise, can he suspend that rule, or is there some higher rule that they have to follow?

 

Katherine certainly looked sour at the dinner when her husband was praising Denise so highly and announcing her trip to Paris.  Is any of his favoring Denise actually aimed at Katherine?

 

Clara hypnotizing Susie with the wooden spoon was a nice comic touch to the episode!

[BusyOctober]

Why is Denise's uncle still hanging around the pubs in the city?  I thought he got married to Miss Audrey and went off to the country (or seaside cottage??).  Did getting married back then mean the wife has to quit her career AND be tucked away several miles from her new husband but remain at the ready for conjugal visits when the mood strikes him?

 

The Susie hypnotizing bit was so silly IMO.

 

I was never a real big fan of Moray but now all his whining about Denise's successes making it harder for him to gain control is getting on my nerves.  Let he enjoy the glory and help make the staff and customers happy for the short time she has left.  Lord knows - IF she ends up marrying the big baby, her time in the spot light will be over.

[dcalley]

Sheesh to Sam at the bar with the One Pocketwatch to Rule Them All.

 

I wish Denise would dump Moray. He clearly doesn't want her to be happy and succeed.

 

Katherine's telling Clara that Moray is being unfaithful. What's her goal, for Clara to tell Denise? For Clara to tell Weston? I'm not sure what might happen there.

Edited October 30, 2014 by dcalley

[BusyOctober]

Wow, no updated comments for last' night's "ParadisZZzzzz"?  Guess I'm not the only one who's lost interest in this snooze fest.  It's not even snark-worthy.

[editorgrrl]

I wish Denise would dump Moray. He clearly doesn't want her to be happy and succeed.

Did she? This episode was so slow-paced I was only half paying attention.

Boo for the PBS promo monkeys showing Miss Audrey in the previouslies—she wasn't in the episode.

Edited November 3, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Brattinella]

Wow, Mr Weston is a monster, pure and simple.  Even making poor Flora a part of his torture of Katherine, yeesh!  Of course Katherine, sending an urgent message to Moray to come meet, then "This is the last time" except for I have to suck face with you now and YIKES!  I do hope Denise's uncle gets better and gets back to Miss Audrey.

[zoey1996]

Tom Weston has a cold and cruel streak running through him.  Poor Katherine, rejected once again by Moray in favor of Denise.  But Katherine's getting her due in that regard - she is capable of being cold and manipulative too.

Loved the introduction of Lucille and Campbell Ballentine.  Will he prove to be the savior of the Paradise?  He certainly has a high opinion of Denise, which could be her undoing. 

I felt bad for Uncle - he's finding it difficult to walk away from the business he'd built, even for Miss Audrey. 

In some ways, Dudley and Denise seem a good romantic match.  Too bad he's married, with children!

There is a rift in John and Denise's relationship; will it be healed?  Time will tell.  Only two more episodes for this season, and then we're done.  Will we get the "happily ever after ending," or will there be loose ends?