S48.E11: Coconut Etiquette

[Tango64]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

So long as TPTB don’t violate the “portions of these contests which do not effect the outcome have been edited” boilerplate disclaimer, I don’t see why it should really be an issue;

But that's exactly what they did, according to your theory of the aired scene being staged. They changed a portion of the contest that affects the outcome, so the viewer is left thinking one thing happened when apparently another thing happened. 

I don't have any illusions that everything we see is real and without intentional  viewer manipulation, but if they're going to just flat out stage a scene to show a different outcome that kills the last bit of entertainment value for me.

However, I don't actually think that's what happened. I think it happened as shown on screen, with Eva knocking down the tiles before the time was up, and the producers didn't want to hold her accountable.

[Katie111]

What was the point of Kamilla picking Eva for the reward?  I thought Jeff said to pick someone and then explain why you picked them and she never explained.  In her talking head she said she didn't pick Kyle because that might out their "secret" alliance.  At this point I don't think anyone cares about their alliance because it has done nothing and also I don't think she & Kyle are supposed to hate each other so I don't think picking him would raise any eyebrows.  I think she just didn't pick Mary becaue she thinks she's a loser and didn't want to be associated with her.  But why Eva?  They didn't talk gameplay at all at the reward.  

And again, why is no one making a move?  They don't "trust" Mary?  Well, I guess they can "trust" Eva and Joe to vote their asses off.  

 

[bankerchick]

On 5/8/2025 at 12:02 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

How I long for a blindside of either Joe or Eva that would knock the Edgardo blindside out of its GOAT position.

Not possible.

 

On 5/8/2025 at 12:14 PM, iMonrey said:

I half wonder if production isn't prompting them to react more. "More excitement, please! Act like you're really, really hungry!"

The 'chicken and waffles' dance did seem kinda pathetic, like they had been encouraged to go over the top.

 

On 5/8/2025 at 2:42 PM, KeithJ said:

I don't see how someone can wear them daily with no other shoes.

Teenagers around here wear them everywhere, all the time, in any weather, including snow.  With socks....

As far as Mary is concerned, I can see some lingering bitterness in that once she allied with David, she suddenly seemed to think she was in charge.  Someone suggested voting off one of the 'extras' but David says, 'no, Mary says it should be Kamilla.'  Then we cut to Mary talking to David about another potential boot and she once again says, 'no, it has to be Kamilla.'  If that were me, and I thought I had finally found an alliance, I am shutting my mouth, sitting in the back and voting whomever the hell they tell me to vote for.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Tango64 said:

But that's exactly what they did, according to your theory of the aired scene being staged. They changed a portion of the contest that affects the outcome, so the viewer is left thinking one thing happened when apparently another thing happened. 

I don't have any illusions that everything we see is real and without intentional  viewer manipulation, but if they're going to just flat out stage a scene to show a different outcome that kills the last bit of entertainment value for me.

However, I don't actually think that's what happened. I think it happened as shown on screen, with Eva knocking down the tiles before the time was up, and the producers didn't want to hold her accountable.

I hope the following is beyond reasonable dispute:

1. Technically Eva didn't have all the blocks remain until the timer ran out of sand, because she knocked them over while there was still sand in the upper portion of the hourglass.

2. Once she had four levels constructed and decided that she wasn't going to try to add 4 more, there was no foreseeable issue in keeping the four levels she had constructed up indefinitely, and certainly for the time represented by the hourglass (at a guess, a handful of minutes).

I think it's a safe bet that either Eva asked or TPTB volunteered that she didn't have to wait out the remaining sand in the hourglass given her decision. It left the remaining part of the challenge drama free. Would she, the show, or viewers be better off if Eva did have to do a little dance or something while the time ran out? I don't think so.

Cutting Eva the slack by pronouncing that she had maintained her vote and didn't have to wait an extra 1-5 minutes for the sand to run out doesn't strike me as meaningfully affecting the outcome, but YMMV.

[Tango64]

5 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I hope the following is beyond reasonable dispute:

I think the scenario you outline is completely plausible. If the producers told her she didn’t have to wait it out, that likely had no effect on the outcome.  But it would have helped if they’d shown that somehow so it didn’t look like she just violated the rules.

My comment about affecting the outcome was in reply to an earlier post suggesting the scene had been staged and did not represent what actually happened. I don’t think that’s the case. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 minutes ago, bankerchick said:

Not possible.

It would admittedly be hard for any blindside to outdo Edgardo's.

For reference:

So much is *chef's kiss* about that from my perspective: getting Alex to flush his idol needlessly, the musical sting when Edgardo comes to realize that he's at risk, and my love for Earl and Yau-Man.

But the arrogance and entitlement of Joe and Eva certainly matches that of Edgardo and Alex if not surpasses them. And Eva has an idol that could be flushed/misplayed.  

Definitely an uphill battle. But it could have been done this tribal or the previous one. I don't think that the remaining crew has either the votes, luck or smarts to try to get Eva or Joe out in the next vote or two, but I would love, love, love to be proven wrong on that point.

[Blip]

27 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

2. Once she had four levels constructed and decided that she wasn't going to try to add 4 more, there was no foreseeable issue in keeping the four levels she had constructed up indefinitely, and certainly for the time represented by the hourglass (at a guess, a handful of minutes).

Eva had placed a couple additional blocks and decided they were looking too precariously balanced to continue adding more. There was a chance of breeze, rain, bird, insect, or falling leaf causing something to fall. At the instant the hourglass ran out, a ruling should have been made about how many levels were complete. It makes sense to base it on number of levels that are complete as time runs out, not the total number of levels that were completed at some point during the time, or Level 1 could have been completed and knocked down 4 times (although a generous interpretation of the rules as written might allow it).

If they want to let her knock down the pieces early because there is no chance of wind or rain and her structure is extremely stable, at least film it without the partially complete hourglass in the scene.  They can insert a close up of the hourglass running out when editing later.  It is ridiculous to suggest that she may have waited for the time to run out, then they decided to flip over the hourglass and let it run through halfway, so that they could film a scene of her knocking down all the blocks.

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, Katie111 said:

What was the point of Kamilla picking Eva for the reward?  I thought Jeff said to pick someone and then explain why you picked them and she never explained.  In her talking head she said she didn't pick Kyle because that might out their "secret" alliance.  At this point I don't think anyone cares about their alliance because it has done nothing and also I don't think she & Kyle are supposed to hate each other so I don't think picking him would raise any eyebrows.  I think she just didn't pick Mary becaue she thinks she's a loser and didn't want to be associated with her.  But why Eva?  They didn't talk gameplay at all at the reward.  

And again, why is no one making a move?  They don't "trust" Mary?  Well, I guess they can "trust" Eva and Joe to vote their asses off.  

 

I think Kamilla said she didn’t pick Mary because she ate all the coconuts and was causing trouble.  So spiteful.  
 

At the very least she could have picked Shauhin and discussed the possibility of making a move on Eva and Joe. 

[iMonrey]

On 5/8/2025 at 6:05 PM, Nashville said:

So, yeah - even though the timer may still have been running when we saw Eva knock over the tiles, that doesn’t necessarily mean the timer’s initial run had not already expired well in advance of her exit scene being shot.

13 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes.  When she is shown in slow motion walking away and dramatically hitting all the blocks, we can clearly see the hourglass in the background and it clearly had black sand still in the top half.

On 5/8/2025 at 9:42 PM, violet and green said:

Yeah. I can't think of any reason why the show would have restaged that shot with the hourglass still running in the background. 

I'm not even calling shenanigans on this, necessarily. I'm just saying the show may have inadvertently added fuel to the fire that the fix was in by wording the instructions too ambiguously. 

And production may well have encouraged Eva to knock the tiles down on her way out. To make it look like a triumph and they were rooting for her. The optics are bad.

Edited May 10 by iMonrey

[Carey]

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think Kamilla said she didn’t pick Mary because she ate all the coconuts and was causing trouble.  So spiteful.  
 

At the very least she could have picked Shauhin and discussed the possibility of making a move on Eva and Joe. 

One of several reasons why I'm not going to lose sleep over Joe or Eva getting crowned.  Honestly, nobody left deserves the title more

[SVNBob]

19 hours ago, cowgirlwen said:

On 5/8/2025 at 9:24 PM, surfgirl said:

 Lastly, I want to see behind the curtain. I want to know if they're given a latrine and toilet paper. Do they brush their teeth? Is there any hygiene products whatsoever? How do women with periods deal with that? I want to know, man, I want to know. Because honestly? That's more interesting to me at this point than the actual show, which blows right now.

 

I've noticed more this season than ever before the number of Band-Aids on all of the contestants' bodies.  Obviously they're getting regular medical attention.  Long gone are the days of seeing open wounds and hundreds of bug bites that I remember from the early seasons.  I'm assuming that along with the medical, they're also given at least basic hygiene care as well.  

 

There has always been a basic first-aid kit at every camp in every season of Survivor.  The contestants are instructed not to mention it during the show, but many have talked about it in post-show interviews.  The band-aids and any feminine hygiene products would be in that, along with simple OTC medications like aspirin (or equivalent).  They also include condoms, just in case.  

And if a contestant has a disclosed condition that does not disqualify them from competing and requires a non-controlled medication (asthma inhaler, daily heart medication, etc.) then those medications are kept in the first-aid kit.

Proper latrines, toilet paper, and oral hygiene products used to be tribal rewards, but those particular rewards have gone by the wayside.  At present, tribes tend to have both a designated "hole area" and a location in the water for "aqua-dumps".

Edited May 10 by SVNBob
deleted duplication

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, SVNBob said:

At present, tribes tend to have both a designated "hole area" and a location in the water for "aqua-dumps".

Considering how many years they’ve been filming in the same location, the air around camp must be fairly acrid. And is there any wading area left that might not feel a bit… spongy?

I hate that you’ve made me think about this.

[SVNBob]

22 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Considering how many years they’ve been filming in the same location, the air around camp must be fairly acrid.

This is one reason why they rotate camp locations between seasons.   Gives the environments a chance to recover.

Plus, the later tribes don't always choose the same locations for their trenches as the prior ones.  Notably, when the Green tribe on S46 was digging for an idol in the roots of a banyan tree (based on a clue planted by the person who had already found said idol elsewhere), one of the cast of S43 said that that banyan was where their Blue tribe first dug their trench.

 

23 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

And is there any wading area left that might not feel a bit… spongy?

I recall a scene one season where a contestant describes one of the benefits of an aquadump as "the evidence just floating away".  However, that is also one of the immediate drawbacks.  

The tides tend to take everything away though, so the ground is relatively solid.

 

22 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

I hate that you’ve made me think about this.

I doo apologize.

[Nashville]

21 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes.  When she is shown in slow motion walking away and dramatically hitting all the blocks, we can clearly see the hourglass in the background and it clearly had black sand still in the top half.

 

19 hours ago, Tango64 said:

But that's exactly what they did, according to your theory of the aired scene being staged. They changed a portion of the contest that affects the outcome, so the viewer is left thinking one thing happened when apparently another thing happened. 

Wow; either a lot of folks no longer bother reading the entirety of a post before jumping in with a reply, or my writing style isn’t nearly as clear and comprehensible as I’d hoped/thought it was - so let me take another stab at this.

When I was referring to a possible re-staging of the task, I was envisioning a timeline scenario along the following lines:

1. Eva starts into the task and fairly quickly knocks out the first four rows - thereby guaranteeing retention of her vote at the next TC.
2. Eva starts to go for the eight-row goal, but gets paranoid after a couple of tiles and backs off.
3. Eva (and the camera operator(s), and the PAs, and the bats in the trees, etc., etc.) all sit on their collective asses until the INITIAL RUN OF THE TIMER runs out - meaning the task concludes with Eva’s successful retention of her TC vote.
4. One of the PAs then speaks up, saying “That was great, Eva!  One thing, though - we had shadows from tree branches obscuring your face several times* on the original shot, so could we try that again…?”
5. Production has Eva restage and re-enact the problematic scene shots, possibly (probably?) for multiple successive iterations - part of which necessarily involves one or more SUCCESSIVE SUBSEQUENT RUNS OF THE TIMER, to mimic its appearance on the original shot.
6. Once Production is finally satisfied, they have Eva knock over the tiles on her way out for a suitably dramatic(-ish) conclusion - not noticing the timer was still running from one of the subsequent successive stagings.

Within this context (or a similar one), was the timer thing a goof?  Yeah, sure - but not a goof which necessarily invalidated the entire reward task.  And one could hardly say “this ruins the entire concept and/or watchability of the show”, insofar as they’ve been doing the same thing since Season 2 (at the very least) and people are still watching.

 

* Insert generic reshoot rationale here.

[millennium]

On 5/7/2025 at 9:28 PM, Rodney said:

Sorry to see Mary go.  She made a perfect pitch, and the others should've listened.  But some people are playing scared.

Boring season.  Might as well give Joe the prize now.

This happens virtually EVERY season.   I don't understand why anyone is surprised or pissed.  Time and time again, they leave the strongest players in the game despite perfect opportunities to remove them, then they lament about it when two of the players they could have voted off are in the final four.

So many morons come on this show calling themselves "superfans."  They know everything about Survivor but somehow never manage to learn, despite numerous examples, that you take out the strong players when the game gives you the opportunity.

Instead they come up with stupid reasoning like "I want to go up against a real competitor in the end" or "He/she shared things with me that make it difficult for me to vote them off."

 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, millennium said:

This happens virtually EVERY season.   I don't understand why anyone is surprised or pissed.  Time and time again, they leave the strongest players in the game despite perfect opportunities to remove them, then they lament about it when two of the players they could have voted off are in the final four.

 

 

You're right and it's so sad.  Starting with Richard Hatch all the way through, and I guess it just demonstrates how many natural followers we have among the very few leaders.

I think it comes down to fear.  They can't bring themselves to step out against the strong ones, so they  think they'll attach themselves to a Joe or a Boston Rob, go along with him to the finals, and then a twist of fate or a gust of wind will hand them the million.

I feel the frustration of someone like Mary who  tries to spark a rebellion.  It's like she's trying to get the sheep to organize against a wolf.  They just stand and stare.

[princelina]

On 5/7/2025 at 10:59 PM, Neveragain said:

I’m so disappointed. Bad enough Kyle made a bad choice but at least he was on the fence and part of the four so he had legit mixed feelings.   But Mitch?  What an idiot!  And Camilla, I’m so surprised. Up till tonight I thought she was a sharp cookie.

Apparently she'll be happy if "one of them" gets to the end, and she doesn't care at all for that one to be herself 🙄

 

On 5/8/2025 at 10:42 AM, LizBug said:

Jeff touts the game as a "great social experiment".  Well, this season, the experiment is bombing.  If what we're being shown are the most interesting aspects of this experiment, it must be excruciatingly predictable and boring to the actual contestants.

That's the risk he runs - sometimes more morons get cast than others 😄

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I think it comes down to fear.  They can't bring themselves to step out against the strong ones, so they  think they'll attach themselves to a Joe or a Boston Rob, go along with him to the finals, and then a twist of fate or a gust of wind will hand them the million.

And that only happened once - to Amber 😂

Didn't Mitch get chosen for reward just a week or 2 ago because he "hadn't eaten"?

[millennium]

23 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

You're right and it's so sad.  Starting with Richard Hatch all the way through, and I guess it just demonstrates how many natural followers we have among the very few leaders.

Case in point: Wu brought TONY to the final!

[choclatechip45]

It's not unusual for casts to make dumb decisions, but what makes this season frustertating is all the entertaining people were voted out in the begining. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/10/2025 at 11:50 PM, millennium said:

This happens virtually EVERY season.   I don't understand why anyone is surprised or pissed.  Time and time again, they leave the strongest players in the game despite perfect opportunities to remove them, then they lament about it when two of the players they could have voted off are in the final four.

So many morons come on this show calling themselves "superfans."  They know everything about Survivor but somehow never manage to learn, despite numerous examples, that you take out the strong players when the game gives you the opportunity.

Instead they come up with stupid reasoning like "I want to go up against a real competitor in the end" or "He/she shared things with me that make it difficult for me to vote them off."

 

Although it seems to me that there are a lot of players who are obvious frontrunners to win who seem to never seriously get challenged (HI DEE FROM S45!), one area where I think contestants have been pretty good is spotting individual immunity runs and targeting people who are vulnerable after they have chalked up 2-3+ individual immunities.

That seems very Survivor 101: if someone else is winning a lot of individual immunities, that not only prevents you from winning individual immunity, it also gives them an objective metric on their Survivor Resume to show that they have outplayed everyone else and thus deserve the million.

Joe has won individual immunity 3 times already. The only person left who could conceivably beat him in physical prowess is Kyle. Joe probably has 1-2 individual immunity wins in the tank, which should get him to F4 or FTC.

Especially because I don't know if Mitch or Shauhin is willing to flip even now, which means that they have 4 votes to take out Camilla (or if she should win individual immunity/King Joe and Queen Eva decree it to be so) 4 votes to take out Mitch.

Edited May 12 by Chicago Redshirt

[Lantern7]

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