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I wasn't feeling the episode that much, but it got better -more interesting- once Serena was found out. The reactions of the other passangers and the security guard were understable and while I knew that Serena wasn't going to be killed there, I'm glad she felt terror. Her problem is that deep down she doesn't think Gilead is wrong. She would be happy in Gilead if she were the exception to all the rules and that's why she does things like forgetting about Hannah. in any case, her current situation isn't all that better. I mean, I don't know much about Canada, but I guess that being alone with a baby in the wilderness isn't exactly a walk in the park.

And I teared up at the end, when June and her mum found each other. Wasn't expecting that and it was a nice twist. 

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I haven’t finished this yet, but Serena is such an idiot.  And of course, unable to really admit that she was wrong, and that she’s partly responsible for the hell these people have been through.  Mostly women. And then she expects them to feel for HER, and let her keep her son.  

June was only trying to get her arrested, to protect her.  This woman and her husband, raped her, and she’s trying to protect her?

It’s been so long since the last season, I forgot they were on a train full of gilead refugees.  

and wtf Canada? Wanting to recognize gilead now? No longer helping American refugees? 

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Yvonne Strahovski is such a phenomenal actress. She made me fully believe Serena's hypocritical but genuine moments of sympathy, but her taking offense to June's mistrust was ridiculous. "You thought I was going to take your baby while you were sleeping like a Disney villain?" Bitch, you've taken that particular baby before! And she really is no good with an angry mob, giving them the Gilead spiel like she's not also trying to get away from them. I appreciated June trying to get her arrested.

When they did the slow motion woman in scrubs I knew it was going to be June's mother, but they took so long cutting back to June that I thought I was wrong. I thought she was going to be surprised when she happened upon June, but I liked the realism of her having the names of people who'd checked in and seeing June's name and calling for her. 

I want to be mad at June for sticking up for Serena, but she's got a touch of Stockholm Syndrome here and would've been much more fine with them killing her if they'd have just given her Noah.

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Well, I'm glad Serena was outed in the first episode and they didn't take all season to get there.  At the end of last season I wanted June to say to her "All I have to do is say your name, and you're dead.  So you're following my rules from here on in."   Earlier in this episode, I was actually shocked that June was calling Serena by her name.  You'd think she would want to be called whatever name was on her fake papers.  

Overall, I liked this as the first episode of the season.  I don't really understand June's protection of Serena.  Yes, they've been through some stuff "together", but I don't see how that makes up for Serena's actions - in making/sustaining Gilead, to June specifically, etc.  

The scene where the doctor outed Serena was chilling.  I'm glad they're keeping Serena good old Serena.  With all the praise be's and God this and God that.  Her deference to June was interesting, but she went straight back to her old ways when (literally and figuratively) backed into a corner.  At first I thought the guard was pretending to not recognize her for Serena's benefit, that he was a Gilead loyalist.  Then I realized, nope, he's just wants the women to rip her to shreds.  

I certainly did not expect June to push Serena - and Noah! - off the train!  While it was moving!  Damn, it will be interesting to see how she survives.  And if Noah survives.  

June's mother appearing was a total surprise for me.  I haven't watched any previews or read anything about this season.  So I had no clue that would happen.  

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11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Overall, I liked this as the first episode of the season.  I don't really understand June's protection of Serena.  Yes, they've been through some stuff "together", but I don't see how that makes up for Serena's actions - in making/sustaining Gilead, to June specifically, etc.  

I think June would have been fine with Serena locked up or otherwise being held legally accountable for what she had done.  Leaving Serena to an angry mob, particularly one that didn't seem to care that an innocent baby was involved, might feel too much like Gilead for June to go along with it.  

I was completely surprised by June's mother being alive.  It's nice to see the show can still throw a twist in. 

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(edited)

Watching the "previously" intro, I barely remembered what had happened and wasn't that interested. I surprised myself because I actually liked most of the episode and even liked Elizabeth Moss, which is a big jump for me. Still remember nothing about Nick and his wife, and the father in law(?). Was he in the other seasons?

I think June helped Serena because of Noah, she was empathizing with her. I was afraid she was going to jump too. What I liked the most was that they didn't make her into super hero, even if she saved Serena from the "mob" she was also vulnerable. There are two things that made the show suck for me and not watching some episodes and one of them was Super June all the time.

Not really interested in Lawrence and Bradley's Whitford's little sarcastic quips. The character has run its course as far as my interest goes. 

I hope they just go deep in setting the stage for the other show. I read the book, didn't like it, thought it was Margaret Atwood's attempt to salvage the massacre of her book by the showrunners, so she wrote a sequel that could justify the TV version of what I consider was a masterpiece. Basically she sold out and then tried to take back some control. But because I didn't care about the book, I might not bother with whatever they do with the show, it can be entertaining and inconsequential. 

And a question: wasn't Nichole supposed to be a little older, and wasn't the baby actor from the previous season older than the baby this time? 

Edited by circumvent
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1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

Serena: I'm going to pepper you with lots of questions!

Serena was really having trouble reading June's body language and the room in general during that episode.  Key point: When a mob is looking to murder you for all the horrors you perpetrated on them, your response is not to try and justify it with: "America was full of whores!"   

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Serena just can't have a thought that is not indoctrination and/or her own religious beliefs. Every three words out of her mouth has to be followed by one that conveys her "religiosity". It is annoying and disrespectful because it assumes everyone has the same belief system. It is also arrogant because those people believe they are closer to the god they worship just because they follow the word of said god that is in their head. I have little patience for people like this, including family members that keep "god blessing me" when they know exactly how I feel 

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1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Key point: When a mob is looking to murder you for all the horrors you perpetrated on them, your response is not to try and justify it with: "America was full of whores!"   

Especially when she ranted about women being raped every day in America - when Gilead institutionalized rape and she herself is a rapist of the one woman who's trying to hold off the mob.

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Of all the horrors of the past five seasons June's mom dying in the colonies was a special doom and sadness cloud that kept following me around so I was so happy to see that Holly is alive!

I can't stand Bradley Whitford and I feel his character has outgrown his usefulness in the show. 
 

I decided that June was being too nice to Serena because of Noah, a touch of Stockholm Syndrome and the fact that she was run over by a car the other day. 
 

 

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18 minutes ago, yesferatu said:

Of all the horrors of the past five seasons June's mom dying in the colonies was a special doom and sadness cloud that kept following me around so I was so happy to see that Holly is alive!

I can't stand Bradley Whitford and I feel his character has outgrown his usefulness in the show. 
 

I decided that June was being too nice to Serena because of Noah, a touch of Stockholm Syndrome and the fact that she was run over by a car the other day. 
 

 

Can someone remind me of how June came to believe her mom died in the colonies?  Was there any ambiguity about it, or did they leave open the chance that she was alive?  

I actually love Bradley Whitford.  He delivers snark like no other.  But they really need to make him more than the one note character he is in this show.  Give him some good stuff, or just be done with him.  

I think June was also nice to Serena because a) she's fever pitched, and b) it seems like it's just easier to play along with Serena than fight her, especially in that type of setting.  As I mentioned earlier, Serena was being quite deferential to June until the mob settled in.  Also, I figured that maybe June was keeping Serena close because she knew she might need to use her later as a bargaining chip of some sort.  That actually would have been smart strategizing.  

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38 minutes ago, yesferatu said:

I can't stand Bradley Whitford and I feel his character has outgrown his usefulness in the show. 

Same. The character is just walking around without any purpose, really.

Bradley Whitford may be the snarkiest actor out there but he is the same in every character he plays. Sometimes I think I am watching The West Wing. 

Spoiler

In a future episode when he says "I need to get a plant" I swear I heard "I need to talk to a guy about a thing" to Toby. Same delivery, different soundstage, 25 years later. 

 

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3 hours ago, chaifan said:

Can someone remind me of how June came to believe her mom died in the colonies?  Was there any ambiguity about it, or did they leave open the chance that she was alive?  

After Gilead took over, June and Luke found her mother's apartment ransacked and she was missing.  They initially did not know what had happened to her.  If I remember right, while June was at the Red Center, they showed a picture of her at the Colonies.  June assumed her mother was dead because the Colonies have a very low survival rate.  I think it would be fair to say the situation was ambiguous.

  • Like 3

The Disney reference felt weirdly out of place, as did (mild spoiler) 

Spoiler

Lawrence's reference to wanting to make New Bethlehem like Disneyland

and I wonder if it's because Disney recently bought Hulu, or vice versa.  I remember when Disney took over ABC, all of the sitcoms had to have an episode where the characters went to Disneyland or Disney World.  Could you imagine the equivalent of that on this show?

 

7 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I remember when Disney took over ABC, all of the sitcoms had to have an episode where the characters went to Disneyland or Disney World. 

Seriously?  Wow.  I guess I don't watch enough sitcoms to have ever realized that.  I do remember the Brady Bunch going to King's Island (a local amusement park outside of Cincinnati, Ohio).  

But I guess if you have to work in a Disney reference into the Handmaid's Tale, talking about evil Queens is pretty much the only opening for it.  😂

There was also a mention of a poisoned apple, so Serena made multiple Disney villain references.

I realize it was for PLOT, but there was no clear reasoning for June to help Serena escape from the angry mob. Is it Stockholm Syndrome? A sudden change of heart? Amnesia? Aliens? 

And of course, the episode ends with a long, close up shot of Elizabeth Moss' face. 

3 hours ago, RunningMarket said:

I realize it was for PLOT, but there was no clear reasoning for June to help Serena escape from the angry mob. Is it Stockholm Syndrome? A sudden change of heart? Amnesia? Aliens?

Seriously? Sometimes I feel as though I'm literally being gaslit by the majority of people who post about this show. The writing of Serena and June has been very consistent throughout the series. I don't want to list a million examples of how June always--ALWAYS!--has been protective of Serena because this thread is supposed to be focused specifically on 6.01. But I could list them easily in every season, and I could just as easily list all the times Serena has protected June from outside harm. Given that basis, it was completely in character for June to save Serena from the mob. June hates Serena but also loves her. It's as simple and as complicated as that. The writers and both actresses have made that point ad infinitum. I don't think it's even particularly subtle, and I've rewatched episodes more times than I care to admit. But for some reason, many people are always newly baffled when they see new evidence of it. I just don't get it.

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42 minutes ago, crashdown said:

Seriously? Sometimes I feel as though I'm literally being gaslit by the majority of people who post about this show. The writing of Serena and June has been very consistent throughout the series. I don't want to list a million examples of how June always--ALWAYS!--has been protective of Serena because this thread is supposed to be focused specifically on 6.01. But I could list them easily in every season, and I could just as easily list all the times Serena has protected June from outside harm. Given that basis, it was completely in character for June to save Serena from the mob. June hates Serena but also loves her. It's as simple and as complicated as that. The writers and both actresses have made that point ad infinitum. I don't think it's even particularly subtle, and I've rewatched episodes more times than I care to admit. But for some reason, many people are always newly baffled when they see new evidence of it. I just don't get it.

YMMV, as they say. I've never felt it to be consistent.

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16 minutes ago, crashdown said:

I once read someone remark that Serena loves June because of June's strength, and June loves Serena because of Serena's weakness. I thought that seemed a little pat, but it also is profoundly true.

This actually makes a lot of sense. I mean, I understand there's an odd somewhat mutual respect between them. I guess for me personally, I just never understood why (especially on June's part).

1 hour ago, crashdown said:

I don't want to list a million examples of how June always--ALWAYS!--has been protective of Serena

Well, that can be true and it can also be true that some of us simply just don't get why.  That's my situation.  I know they've both protected each other before, but if I remember correctly, that was usually for mutual protection.  In this episode, I can understand why June didn't want an angry mob beating Serena to death.  Even if it's someone you hate, I think most human beings would not want that type of harm to come to another person.  (Or at least not be in the same room watching it happen.)  I also get that Noah's a factor, and June was protecting Noah as much as Serena from the mob. 

But... before the mob, when Serena was still unknown...  other than being injured and feverish and maybe not in her right mind, I don't understand why June would want Serena hanging around her in that moment.  It would have made more sense to me for June, instantly upon seeing Serena, to have given a major eye roll, and said hell no, I'm not sticking around for this, and to have walked to another rail car.  But I know that can't happen for plot purposes.  So, my alternative, as stated above, would have been for June to have looked Serena dead in the eye, and let her know that June could out her in a minute, and that June holds the power there.  I also thought that June could be keeping Serena close as a potential bargaining chip for later on.  But as none of that happened, I'm still left wondering why June is so willing to put up with Serena when she doesn't have to.  

I know both actresses have talked about the "love" June and Serena have for each other.  But I still don't get it.  For me, this is the show's job - to show that, to rationalize it.  To make us believe it by what we see on screen.  Not just dance around it and let the actors justify it in interviews.  

 

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(edited)
1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I know both actresses have talked about the "love" June and Serena have for each other.  But I still don't get it.  For me, this is the show's job - to show that, to rationalize it.  To make us believe it by what we see on screen.  Not just dance around it and let the actors justify it in interviews.  

Oh, absolutely! 100 percent! But that's why I sometimes feel as though I'm genuinely being gaslit, and it's something that's never happened to me before in a long life of watching and writing about television. I'm pretty good at looking at things from other people's points of view. I'm used to being able to say that my view is an interpretation, but the opposite view has merits as well. But with June and Serena, to me it's genuinely as if I see them wearing orange in every scene they have together, and then 90 percent of the online fandom world tells me over and over that they've NEVER worn orange, and that only crazy lunatics would think that there was orange in the scene at all. People I trust and respect—smart, perceptive people—don’t perceive any orange.  I see orange everywhere, and the writers and actors insist that they're putting orange out there to see. But if that's true, more people would see the orange, wouldn't they? It's just genuinely baffling to me.

You say that you kind of understand why June didn't want to see an angry mob tear Serena to death. Good. Pretty low bar, really, but . . . good. But didn't you notice how June just looked *crushed* for Serena when the doctor told her that the police were coming? There was no mob in sight at that point. And yet, her first desire was to jump to Serena's defense, as it always, always is.

Edited by crashdown
1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I know both actresses have talked about the "love" June and Serena have for each other.  But I still don't get it.  For me, this is the show's job - to show that, to rationalize it.  To make us believe it by what we see on screen.  Not just dance around it and let the actors justify it in interviews.  

Yes, I agree this is the difficulty. This show's writers aren't good enough to execute this well. They've put the same amount of thought and effort into a believable portrayal of June and Serena's relationship as they have into the logic of the world-building, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Like the difficulty of crossing the border, it's just whatever the writers need at any given time without any thought to plausibility.

1 hour ago, crashdown said:

That's because June is very, very hard to understand! :-)

Except she's really not. That's part of the failing of the writing. She's pretty easy to understand except when it comes to Serena, where her reactions not only border on inexplicable in general but contradict so much of her well-established characterization. So simply saying "Well, it's hard to understand because June is hard to understand" doesn't work. And if June were actually a more difficult person to understand in general, it would still be rather lazy writing, but at least there'd be more latitude.

The actresses do their best but the writing's not there. Too much of the time the writing actually sabotages them. Tell me how much Serena loves June when after repeatedly using Hannah to torment June, Serena just forgot Hannah's still in Gilead. Tell me how much Serena loves June when she goes right into Gilead-true-believer mode, completely disregarding the painful story her supposedly beloved June shared with her earlier. Yes, we can all see June looked unhappy when told the police were coming, but because the reaction makes no sense it doesn't land with viewers. It's just something for viewers to roll their eyes at, all "Here we go again with the nonsensical stuff."

Serena has simply said and done way too much, especially to a woman like June, for the writers to be able to get away with lazy writing that leaves it to the actresses to do all the heavy lifting of trying to make the relationship believable. When June looks crushed at the thought of Serena being taken away by the police, I don't actually see June; I see Elisabeth Moss making an acting choice that lacks authenticity and thus takes me right out of the scene.

Compare with Lydia and Janine's relationship, which has a number of similarities. Like Serena, Lydia is a true believer who has upheld a truly awful institution and done hideous things to the other woman, but Janine still has a soft spot for her despite everything (unlike Emily who took the opportunity to stab Lydia). It's not particularly well-written either, but it's much more plausible for viewers because it's in keeping with Janine, who is broken in specific ways that make her ongoing soft spot for Lydia explicable.

And maybe that's the writers' problem: They thought because they don't need to write anything to explain Janine and Lydia, they don't need to write anything to explain June and Serena. But Janine and June are radically different characters.

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(edited)
37 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Like the difficulty of crossing the border, it's just whatever the writers need at any given time without any thought to plausibility.

Yes, and that's exactly what I disagree with: I think it's tight writing, and I easily buy what they're selling. Is it an expected relationship? Definitely not. But plausible? Sure, just as plausible (and as dark and twisted) as Rachel and Quinn in UnReal. It works for me, and all I can say in my defense is that (a) I've seen every episode at least ten times by now, and (b) I'm usually a pretty decent reader.

37 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Except she's really not. That's part of the failing of the writing. She's pretty easy to understand except when it comes to Serena, where her reactions not only border on inexplicable in general but contradict so much of her well-established characterization. So simply saying "Well, it's hard to understand because June is hard to understand" doesn't work.

That was actually just a joke and a way to soften my maniacal-sounding post. I don't, in fact, find June hard to understand, either in how she reacts to Serena or to any other character. I know June pretty well by now. What I see from her on screen is exactly what I would expect to be seeing.

37 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Tell me how much Serena loves June when after repeatedly using Hannah to torment June, Serena just forgot Hannah's still in Gilead. Tell me how much Serena loves June when she goes right into Gilead-true-believer mode, completely disregarding the painful story her supposedly beloved June shared with her earlier.

I never said that Serena loves people the way most of us do. She's very deficient emotionally. Whether she loves June or not, she's basically self-centered to the core. Because Hannah is not important to her, it's very difficult for her to form any sort of emotional analogy, even with a child of her own now. A normal person would NEVER forget that June has a child in Gilead; it's been June's main emotional driver the whole time she's known Serena. But Serena is not a normal person. The fact that June has wriggled into her sense of self does not mean that Serena can immediately empathize with the things that June cares about. In fact, basic empathy is arguably the main thing that June has tried to guide Serena toward in the whole time they've known each other. It's certainly an uphill battle!

Edited by crashdown
6 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Yes, I agree this is the difficulty. This show's writers aren't good enough to execute this well. They've put the same amount of thought and effort into a believable portrayal of June and Serena's relationship as they have into the logic of the world-building, and I don't mean that as a compliment. Like the difficulty of crossing the border, it's just whatever the writers need at any given time without any thought to plausibility.

That's it

they completely changed who Serena was in the book and since the actress was a great success among viewers, they needed to expand her arc, so they decided to keep those two connected for whatever reason, logic or not.

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Serena is just too dumb to live. All she had to do was sit on the train, shut up, and wait for their destination. But noooooooo, she couldn’t let poor June that was obviously in bad shape just rest, she HAD to gather all the pregnant women and children because to her they DESERVE special snowflake treatment, then again couldn’t just STFU as she’s so desperate to be a victim, but is too dumb and self centered to realize she’s part of why they are all in peril and then acts shocked they all want to kill her and then her true self really comes out when she starts throwing around the you are all whores bit. I’m not a viewer that feels Serena has been redeemed AT ALL, I think she’s the same horrible person she’s been from the start, because her circumstances have changed doesn’t change at her core that’s she’s vile no matter how much the writers want me to FEEL for her.
 

June pushing her off the train was very satisfying and I hope we never have to see her smug face again. 

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10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Yes, we can all see June looked unhappy when told the police were coming, but because the reaction makes no sense it doesn't land with viewers. It's just something for viewers to roll their eyes at, all "Here we go again with the nonsensical stuff."

@Black Knight I totally agree with your post.  And this (above quote) is where I blame the writers.  All they needed to do was have June say to the doctor, "Fuck.  Serena was my bargaining chip to get my daughter back.  Now I'm never going to see Hannah again."  That would have a) made sense for the character, and b) provided all the explanation I needed for June's reaction to the police coming for Serena.  

I can appreciate @crashdown's view of the June/Serena relationship, even if I don't see it myself.  I'm ok with not everything being fully spelled out, black & white, for the viewers.  But this much ambiguity is frustrating for me, and with a few writing tweaks it didn't need to be.  (Total aside for @crashdown - I LOVED UnReal!  Well, the first 2 seasons.  The 3rd season, so-so, the 4th I thought was bad.  But yeah, talk about crazy relationships.  That show had them all!)  

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

but it's much more plausible for viewers because it's in keeping with Janine, who is broken in specific ways that make her ongoing soft spot for Lydia explicable.

Translation:  Janine is cray-cray.  🤣

9 hours ago, crashdown said:

But Serena is not a normal person.

This is the story we're missing, but I'm hoping we're going to get.  I really liked the flashbacks to Serena and her dad.  She seemed normal at that point.  Yes, very religious, but nothing horribly out of the ordinary, especially for a pastor's daughter.  When and how did Serena become "not normal"?  I'm really hoping the flashbacks indicate that we'll see that progression.

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

they completely changed who Serena was in the book and since the actress was a great success among viewers, they needed to expand her arc

I read THT in high school, many, many years ago.  And I didn't remember any of the details.  I purposely didn't reread it when the show was coming out, as I didn't want the frustration of book vs. show in my head.  So I don't remember the "original" Serena.  But yeah, YS has done an amazing job with Serena, and I remember reading early on that caused a major shift in writing her character to give her a bigger role going forward.  I'm glad they did because I love (and love to hate) Serena.  I really can't imagine the show without her.

 

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(edited)

I rewatched "Train" a couple of times (yes, I'm precisely that unhinged). One thing that is a little unintentionally hilarious is exactly where Nichole was during the whole zombie-mob attack on Serena. June pulls the cord and then she and Serena flee. Serena is obviously carrying Noah, but June definitely doesn't have Nichole. Then there are a few random closeup intercut shots of Nichole wailing in her stroller, as if June had grabbed it and was pushing it into the other car to escape the zombies. But there's no Nichole in the car: June pushes Serena off, squints into the darkness, and stands there alone when everyone comes in to yell at her. Poor, forgotten Nichole! Always the burden! 

Another thing I noticed on rewatch is that right before June pushes Serena off the train, you can just barely hear her saying "You'll be all right." The captions didn't catch it, and it was really such terrible sound work that it's almost imperceptible. I'm not sure why they included that line only to make it almost impossible to hear clearly.

Edited by crashdown
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On 4/10/2025 at 6:13 AM, chaifan said:

 

Seriously?  Wow.  I guess I don't watch enough sitcoms to have ever realized that.  I do remember the Brady Bunch going to King's Island (a local amusement park outside of Cincinnati, Ohio).  

But I guess if you have to work in a Disney reference into the Handmaid's Tale, talking about evil Queens is pretty much the only opening for it.  😂

It's even more jarring when you consider that the Disney live-action movie out right now is Snow White.  

I have no trouble at all believing that June loves Serena and Serena loves June. For one thing, Serena isn’t the architect of Hana being ripped out of June‘s arms, if she were, yes, I would find it hard to believe. For me it all goes back to the what was it a week? Were the two of them work together editing and publishing and like normal people in the 21st-century. And I think that in a normal world, these two women would have gotten along and even kind of liked each other. I don’t think they would’ve been friends because they’re interest would’ve been too different, but I think they would have enjoyed one another’s company when they were thrown together. It’s important to remember that Gillian hasn’t been around all that long. That every single woman of a certain age by a certain age I mean over the age of 21 in Gilead knows how to read despite the fact that they are having to pretend that they don’t.People remember the time before.

 

 People remember the time before.

 

Yes, Serena was an idiot to spout all that stuff on the train, but she was in an absolute fighter flight moment where these people were coming at her. It really reminded me of the end of the lottery, people do all kinds of things when they think they’re about to be killed by the mob. And make no mistake those angry women were a mob,there’s no coming back from doing something like that and I’m very glad for their own sake’s they didn’t do it. The doctor and the policeman ushering everyone off the train who didn’t want to see it, that was just levels of evil.

 

 There’s no coming back from doing something like that and I’m very glad for their own sake’s they didn’t do it. The doctor and the policeman ushering everyone off the train who didn’t want to see it, that was just levels of evil.

 

Was anybody else terribly moved by the flag with two stars on it? I was.

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