Dragon's Den (Canada) - General Discussion

[hawk09]

I have watched every episode this season and I'm just not enjoying it.  Say all you want about Kevin, but at least he added humor, sometimes undeserved criticism, but at least he had something to say and added spark to the show, and could feed off the other Dragons.  This year, if I miss an episode, so be it.

 

Vikram could be a one-seasoner, all he ever says is "your evaluation is too high", and you wonder if he's interested in any of the products that are presented.

 

IMO:  All of the Dragons look kind of bored.

[LakeGal]

I miss Kevin too.  Arlene seems to be the Queen Bee this season.  I am not sure I like that.  Everyone seems to cater to her.  I feel like the chemistry has changed and it does not make it as enjoyable to me. 

[Taeolas]

Holiday special.... was rather blah.

 

Gotta wonder why anyone will come on to pitch remote lights or tree watering systems; unless you have something REALLY innovative, that market is saturated. I'd say light blinkers are saturated too for that matter. 

 

The plow guy seems like he has an interesting idea, but he's a year too early to get investment. As they pointed out, he needs a lot more legwork done before he's ready for investment. 

 

The sports bag looks like a good idea from afar, and there did seem to be a lot of legitimate interest in it. The "Christmas Miracle" aspect of David taking the deal in the end was a bit hokey but whatever. I'm glad he got the deal; it seemed like one of the few good deals of the night.

 

The other successful deal, I've already forgotten. *checks* Ahh right, the stretchy denim pants. I don't have any interest in it as a product, but I can see it being successful both as a pitch and a general product.

 

I did like the update on the Holiday Rejects. IIRC, Kevin may have gotten involved in a bad sweaters company in the States too on Shark Tank. These guys are keeping it on a smaller scale, but they also seem to be doing quite well for a seasonal/spare time business so bravo to them.

 

As for this season in general, I'm finding it too low energy. Like him or hate him, Kevin brings a tonne of energy to the shows (and so did Robert for that matter), and he was good at bringing energy out of the rest. 

 

Jim is too grandfatherly and quiet. David's also the quiet type. Arlene is loud and energetic enough, but can come off a bit shrill at time. Michael, I can see him growing into the energy role. He certainly seems to be trying but he hasn't quite meshed with the other dragons yet. Next season he should be better I think. Vikram just feels too dour and dire when he speaks, and doesn't seem interested. 

 

Since this seems to be a common thread in DD this year, I'm going to make a "Fix the Den" thread to talk about changes that might be good.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Taeolas

[Taeolas]

This season, the first without Kevin, there's been a lot of chatter about the new dragons and how the den seems to be going this year. Generally, the feeling is that like him or hate him, without O'Leary's personality, the Den is faltering.

 

So, what do people think would be improvements to improve the Den? 

 

Personally, I think we need another strong personality. Michael seems to be trying to grow into the role, so he might be fine next season. 

 

Secondly: Vikram Vij just isn't working. As a guest dragon, he'd be great. As a permanent dragon, he doesn't seem to have the diverse interests and/or the cash pool to get involved in most of the pitches. 

 

I'd look to get a new Dragon, or maybe 2 new Dragons (make sure at least 1 is a woman, so it isn't just Arlene in the Den) and follow the Shark Tank lead in rotating out dragon's occasionally. It helps keep the panel fresh to see a newish face or two each week.

 

I'd also go back to the Theme dragons they did a few years back, when they had Mike Holmes and Debbie Travis on for specialized shows. 

 

Any other ideas for improving the Den? 

[UsernameFatigue]

I have been a bit on the fence regarding Wex, but his tongue lashing to the snowplow guy was right on, so I am now firmly in his corner. That was priceless, as was the look on Jim's face. I just wish they had shown the other dragons at the same time.  I still don't really understand the point of his invention. I don't know anyone who plows who would be carrying around a home type snowblower - any I know (ie that work for the city) just use blades. What am I missing?

 

I didn't really get the sports bag idea only in that it didn't seem to have enough room to dry out all the equipment so you would still end up having to hang some up in other areas. Other than I guess it would encourage a kid (if there is such a thing) to take the stuff out in the first place.

 

I don't really find the den to be low energy, but I do think Vikram is not fitting in. I do not miss Kevin at all - a few seasons back he became a caricature of himself, and hadn't come up with anything original to say in awhile. I do miss Robert though.

[Taeolas]

Admittedly I'm not a rink rat, nor a sports guy at all so I don't know the market. But the sports bag seems to be aimed at the overnight hockey team; the school teams that go on a road trip and end up staying overnight in a hotel. The bag lets/encourages the kids (or parents/chaperones) to air out their gear after the game in the rooms before they reach StinkCon 2 levels. The backsupport seat is an added bonus (I can see a bunch of players chilling in the room after the game, half of them on the floor leaning against the bag-seats).

 

Partly it seems that his new design is in response to missing the bus in his original design too, so I'm sure there are some tradeoffs; but all in all it did look like a decent idea. 

 

As for the Plow guy, he was aiming for the contract plowers. Not the ones that clear the roads or even the ones that clear a household's private driveways. He's targeting the guys that do the small to midsized parking lots of businesses/minimalls/condo/apartment complexes. Places where the contract also usually requires them to clear the lot and the walkways/sidewalks and entrances and such. Those guys I can see needing to have the smaller salt spreaders and the snow blowers and such with them. So for them, I can see some worth to his design. But not having the TransportCanada OK was a big problem right off the bat. And I could see a possible problem having the handles of the devices facing forward. (And I'd worry about the weight of a full snowblower hanging off one edge of a snow blade).

 

Were I him, I'd redesign it to be something you can easily attach to the liftgate on the back of the pickups instead. Let them hang off the rear off of something with more weight capacity and something people are more likely to notice when following you. Plus if you do overload it somehow, you're just out the cost of the device, instead of the connector and your snowplow blade. 

[UsernameFatigue]

But the sports bag seems to be aimed at the overnight hockey team; the school teams that go on a road trip and end up staying overnight in a hotel. The bag lets/encourages the kids (or parents/chaperones) to air out their gear after the game in the rooms before they reach StinkCon 2 levels

 

That was my point - there wasn't nearly enough room to air out skates, gloves, shoulder pads, shin pads, pants, jersey. So at best you could hope it would be novel enough for the kid to air out some on the bag and hang the rest in the bathroom or wherever.

 

Admittedly I have only ever lived in one condo but it was in Vancouver where it only snows once or twice a year, not enough for the strata to pay for a contract plower. So what do these guys do now to transport a blower and salt spreader? I would assume if a guy is using a blade on his truck he is either packing them in the bed of the truck or pulling a small trailer (like yard maintenance people do in the summer.) Most have a ramp to run the equipment up or down, so it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Regardless I can't imagine this guy getting a deal due to his personality - he'd need to hire a spokesperson to get anywhere.

[Amarsir]

Students, Christmas, next week a "Second Chance" - that's a lot of specials for just 10 episodes. They always tend to be a little forced, and while I actually like the Students one this year I felt this episode was weak as expected.  Case in point, the best pitches were sports bag and snowboarding pants, either of which could fit in any episode.

 

If they're going to put these pitches on the air anyway I guess it's fine to group them up. But I think they let stuff through they shouldn't. Like for example that first woman who had a double pitch.  Quirky, but the producers could have told her to combine the business.

 

That said, I liked her idea for the music-triggered lights.  I was surprised that didn't get a deal because it sounds to me like it could be huge. Unless I missed something or it already exists. Who wouldn't want lights that blink in time with the music you're playing?

 

Oh, and was it just me or did anyone else think Arlene was being really grumpy when she picked on the guy for saying "grandmas"? I didn't think it was unreasonable to suggest that elderly people might prefer a button to bending over.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Amarsir

[Taeolas]

Well, remote light triggers are literally a dime a dozen. Go to WalMart or Crappy Tire and you'll find a dozen variants of it already, from the foot button to remote control versions. (I picked up a 3 pack remote control so I can turn on my window lights when I get home; 3 sets of lights controlled from one remote).

 

As for the light syncer, those are pretty common now. Not as common as the tree waterers or the remote lights, but the tech's been out there for years if you look around. And maybe it was the studio lights but it didn't seem that good to me in the end. 

 

And as for the plow guys, I'm not sure how many of them do it. Many probably just shovel off by hand. Or they have teams with multiple trucks; the plow shows up, clears some space, then the equipment truck shows up and the second team shows up to do the rest. Of course what he didn't mention was how do you handle that in a storm. Most plow guys arrive on site, drop the blade and start plowing from the road. They do this because there just isn't the space to be unloading equipment until they plow out room; and all that gear is right in the way of the plow blades. Not a good combo. (Other option is to leave it on the road, where they'll get pummelled by the city/highway plows roaring through).

[Oinky Boinky]

Remote control for your Christmas tree lights?  Just attach a clapper to the wall receptacle. Easy old technology and kids like clapping the tree off and on. 

 

Free from me to you - Merry Christmas.

[Amarsir]

I find David to be my favorite on the show right now. He's social with the other dragons, not afraid to invest in any type of business, happy to participate, and seems to simply enjoy himself. And that's the qualities I'd look for in other Dragons too.

Arlene and Jim are fine staples but both can feel like they're holding court. Michael has potential but you can tell that he doesn't feel at home yet. (Also something about him makes me think he won't stick around for a lot of seasons.) And Vikram could pass as a ST-style one-shot guest, but isn't aggressive enough to warrant a chair.

Naturally the pool of qualified millionaires isn't huge, but what they really need is the kind of person who'd be sitting at home watching the show if they weren't on it. Heck, I'll volunteer. I just need a couple million dollars first to get started. Maybe I'll try a kickstarter!

Edited December 5, 2014 by Amarsir

[Pollock]

Free from me to you - Merry Christmas.

You don't even ask for a royalties deal ? Each time we clap we owe you a christmas cookie ?

Have you learned nothing ?!

[duckseason]

As far as personalities go I think they have the right balance.  Arlene and Wek are colorful, Chilton is about the middle, and Jim and Vikram are fairly quiet, and the latter two are quiet in different ways.  I like how Jim watches everything like a hawk and then lowers the boom when he needs to.  Not a lot of excessive chatter from him.  If they had a whole panel of loud attention-grabbers, like on Shark Tank, it would burn me out.  I miss Bruce since he was laid-back and was another one who was good at balancing out the overall energy level.

 

I liked the snowboarding jeans idea, the rest were blah.  They brought up a good point about the plow attachments - how would it adapt to different plow blades.  Arlene did get weird about the button - some people and not just elderly have trouble bending over and would appreciate a switch that was more accessible (but those hings have already flooded the market).  

Edited December 7, 2014 by duckseason

[UsernameFatigue]

I think Grandma Arlene's biggest hindrance to bending over to unplug the Christmas tree lights would be her tight leather pants. It was funny though how touchy she was. Because our outlet is behind our tree, for several years we have used an extension with a button on the floor that resides under the tree skirt. Simply step on the button to turn the lights on or off - easy peasy. And no problem about possibly misplacing a remote, which I have been known to do.

[Kel Varnsen]

I miss Kevin too.  Arlene seems to be the Queen Bee this season.  I am not sure I like that.  Everyone seems to cater to her.  I feel like the chemistry has changed and it does not make it as enjoyable to me. 

I miss Kevin too. With the pitch for the fryer thing he would have been the first one asking exactly what I wanted to know. Why didn't that guy go to the fryer manufacturers and sell his thing to them, so that can be installed on fryers before they are sold to restaurants. There can't be that many companies making commercial deep fryers in north america, so I would think that would be a lot easier than trying to sell to restaurants.

 

The rest of it was kind of boring and like many I am kind of tired of the new dragons. Vikram doesn't really fit and he clearly doesn't have the kind of cash that the other dragons do.  Plus he is super predictable. And maybe it is just me but it seems he thinks a lot higher of his celebrity chef status that I do. I mean before he was announced as a dragon I had never really heard of him.

 

Michael is less annoying, but I am finding he tries to hard. That said I am really liking David this season. He wasn't really that interesting before, but he seems to be showing more of his personality. Plus I like that he is quick with the numbers. 

[Kel Varnsen]

I am really liking David recently too. He seems a lot more animated/social then in previous seasons. Plus he seems crazy smart which I appreciate. I am tired of Vikram already, you can almost tell as soon as he starts talking, by the tone of his voice, that he is going to be out.  I wonder if he just isn't as rich as some of the others, or if he doesn't understand that you don't have to sign every deal you go in on.

 

Although I have always figured that none of these dragons actually put up any of their own money (at least not directly). One of the major sponsors of the show is Scotiabank. I just assume that if David or Arlene or whoever makes a deal they call up Scotiabank and they probably get a crazy low (or no) interest loan to cover their costs. If they company succeeds they pay back the loan with their profits, if it fails they are on the hook for that money. Of course someone like Jim who is richer would have the ability to borrow more money, but at the same time I doubt any dragon just goes down to his or her money bin and fills a few duffle bags full of cash.

They seem to have made Arlene sort of the ringleader (the role Kevin used to have) it would be kind of cool if David became the co-ring leader or took a more active role. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Remote control for your Christmas tree lights?  Just attach a clapper to the wall receptacle. Easy old technology and kids like clapping the tree off and on. 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Hell if you wanted something really fancy a friend of mine probably around a decade ago had this thing that was a remote control switch like that. But you plugged the receiver into a wall outlet. Then you could plug secondary receivers into any other wall outlet in the house and if you were in the living room and wanted to turn on something say in the basement you could.

 

Over all this was a pretty bad episode. The snow pants were the only thing that is kind of interesting but I wonder how successful they would be. I mean they would probably be popular for ski and snowboard types. But he also talked about marketing them to construction workers working in winter. But at his price point (I think they said around $220) I am not sure how many construction workers will buy them. 

 

And the snow plow thing was probably one of the worst pitches ever. Like other have said it might not have been a bad idea, but his presentation was just terrible. It is times like this where I really miss Kevin, since he would have destroyed that guy for coming in with that valuation and no revenue, and being kind of a jerk.

 

And I am totally tired of Vikram and it has only been 8 episodes. We watched the two most recent episodes back to back over the last two nights and in those two episodes he did not make a single offer. I mean I used to be critical of Bruce for always trying to do partner deals with Arlene, but at least he was trying to make something happen. I would love to know if there have been any behind the scenes stuff with CBC and them telling him that he needs to make more offers. I mean they are paying him to be on the show, and giving him free exposure for his businesses. But he hasn't really brought anything to the season, so I wonder if they are pissed about that.

[Kel Varnsen]

 They brought up a good point about the plow attachments - how would it adapt to different plow blades.  

So it snowed pretty good yesterday in Ottawa and driving around today there are a lot of "Mr. Plow" type plow trucks about. Looking at most of the ones I have seen so far the actual plow blade seems to run parallel to the front bumper of the car, and only really sticks out maybe 8 inches to a foot on either side of the bumper. Most of them also have the blade installed close to the front bumper. Based on that I am not sure how the hell you could install a snow blower on the side of the blade. In fact for pretty much all the ones out today, that dude's invention wouldn't work. 

[sadiegirl]

Yes, i like David, too.  He's my favorite.  But I'm not on board with the two new guys. 

[Traveller519]

I don't know if these are ideas for improvement so much as observations on the show so far this season.

 

I thought I was going to be put off by Michael's schtick early on. But he's actually come around for me. He doesn't talk around the issue, and offers up his honest opinion. I'm glad he's there. Plus he seems to have the bank roll to want to do these deals that Vikram is lacking. Vikram really appears to want to stick to the food type deals that he can co-opt for himself. Unfortunately, that means it's a lot of him bowing out. He's also getting the terrible puns they used to write for David. It seems to be a write of passage for the newest Dragon, speak in a lot of puns and offer up all the praise in the world before you bow out of a deal.

 

I don't like the idea of cycling through a bunch of Dragons. I think it's best if the pitchers really understand who they're pitching too. And this season there's obviously some trepidation not knowing as much about the two new Dragons. With an established Dragon, you know what type of deals they've done and what they're looking for. With the new guys, it's all wild cards.

[hula-la]

The Zane guy with his deli really annoys me and I'm not happy he's back on the show again. He's such a huckster and attention hog. He's on how many shows on the Food Network as a judge and "expert", and seems more interested in getting attention for himself (not sure if he really wants attention for his restaurant). Quelle surpris that he didn't take the deal.

[Amarsir]

Agreed, he was the one who really stood out as not belonging there. Fortunately most of the rest were genuine, if deluded. I was afraid the show would be all guys like him.

 

I think David made a mistake on that last deal.  The others are right - people won't recur their subscriptions as much as they think and expanding globally so early is a huge mistake.  Either shipping internationally or setting up distribution hubs on multiple continents, either is way more headache than it's worth.  Even with his royalty structure he'll be lucky to break even.

 

Good for Vikram jumping on that early deal, even though it's not a food product.  I couldn't help but think that maybe it's his second chance too.

 

And I couldn't help but be struck by how heavily Kevin featured in the flashbacks.  He really was an important role for the show, wasn't he?

[Starchild]

The Zane guy with his deli really annoys me and I'm not happy he's back on the show again. He's such a huckster and attention hog. He's on how many shows on the Food Network as a judge and "expert", and seems more interested in getting attention for himself (not sure if he really wants attention for his restaurant). Quelle surpris that he didn't take the deal.

Well, just look at the fact that he has his own picture on all his products, thinking he looks cool when all he really looks like is an egomaniacal doofus.

[Kel Varnsen]

The Zane guy with his deli really annoys me and I'm not happy he's back on the show again. He's such a huckster and attention hog. He's on how many shows on the Food Network as a judge and "expert", and seems more interested in getting attention for himself (not sure if he really wants attention for his restaurant). Quelle surpris that he didn't take the deal.

He annoys me too. I mean his first time on I think he had a decent deal, and I think the dragons missed out by not realizing how popular food trucks were becoming. The second time he was a little over the top and this time was just stupid. His sales didn't seem to be anything close to what he was valuing his company at. It is cases like this where you need someone like kevin to say "your revenue was X, so that means your cash flow after taxes is probably Y. And you are asking me to pay Z times cashflow for your company, please tell me how that make sense". I thought Michael was supposed to be the numbers/financial guy.

 

Plus I thought it was hilarious how that Zane guy thought it wouldn't have a crazy amount of competition in things like pickles and mustard. Good luck getting any shelf space anywhere.

 

I think David made a mistake on that last deal.  The others are right - people won't recur their subscriptions as much as they think and expanding globally so early is a huge mistake.  Either shipping internationally or setting up distribution hubs on multiple continents, either is way more headache than it's worth.  Even with his royalty structure he'll be lucky to break even.

 

And I couldn't help but be struck by how heavily Kevin featured in the flashbacks.  He really was an important role for the show, wasn't he?

Your right about the reoccuring subscriptions thing. It is basically an entry level package into a new hobby for someone. Most people will probably do the mail order meat thing for a year or two and either really get into it as a hobby and want to seek things out for themselves, or they will say that was kind of cool and move onto something else. That isn't a bad thing though, pretty much in every hobby there are companies that provide entry level stuff. As long as you can keep new people coming in as often as people drop out you are ok. 

 

You are right too about Kevin and the flashbacks. He was very important. I also thought it was classy for CBC so show him, especially since he basically works for CTV in Canada now.

[Oinky Boinky]

The juicing lady was far too arrogant.

 

1. You are not Booster Juice.

2. The juicing thing is being shown for what it is - a trendy fad for dumb people. Your ship has sailed.

[Amarsir]

The juicing lady was far too arrogant.

 

1. You are not Booster Juice.

2. The juicing thing is being shown for what it is - a trendy fad for dumb people. Your ship has sailed.

Oh my God, I wanted her to shut up before she even got to the product.  However, once she got into it I do think she at least had a sense of some of the things she was doing wrong.  She didn't know  her numbers and didn't understand valuations and that's killer. And what's worse is she tried to power through her mistakes with overconfidence, which in this context made it worse.  She probably would have gotten an investment for $50k, not $500k.  That's what saved the first lady with the catch toy.

[Kel Varnsen]

I wonder if people who watch this show, take the time to watch previous episodes. Because I know I have seen the Dragon's totally blast a person making a pitch like what the juice lady did. I mean they have said before, just because you need $500,000 doesn't mean you can give yourself a valuation where you can ask for $500,000. 

 

The other pitches were ok. I think the funniest part was at the end of the flooring pitch where Vikram told Michael, they should try and copy the flooring business.

 

The cell phone one could have been interesting. Until he told them he was going to be accessing all the data on someone's phone (including incoming and outgoing calls) I think he had a good product. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I am really starting to feel sorry for Vikram.  A few times now he has offered pitchers what they have asked for but been passed over in favour of another dragon. He just does not seem to inspire a lot of confidence.

 

WTH was Michael so pissy with the Maple Water guys? I was wishing someone would stick a soother in his mouth to stop his whining.

 

I really didn't like the hockey stick. I can see why hockey players (and parents) would love to buy a stick that is hard to break, but what if it ends up hitting someone, even accidentally? I'd rather have a stick break on a body part (and yes I know they usually break during play ie a slap shot) than the body part break.  That said, I would love to know whay they took Arlene and David over Jim. Why not counter Jim at 49%? Seems to me like he would have more contacts than Arlene and David.

 

The furniture guy was just obnoxious. I pretty much never miss Kevin, but he was sorely needed to put that clown in his place.

Edited January 22, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[sadiegirl]

WTH was Michael so pissy with the Maple Water guys? I was wishing someone would stick a soother in his mouth to stop his whining.

That was just weird. He was so against them, and rude, for no reason I could see. And I hate his overly exaggerated hand motions when he says he's out.

(I watched two episodes yesterday, so I hope I'm still on the right episode). The woman with the skinny pasta was also very annoying. Between her and the furniture guy, it was 'annoying pitches' day in the den.

[Taeolas]

Yeah, the furniture guy and the skinny pasta girl were annoying. I think they were both basically looking for a DD Bump, but I'm not sure it's going to pay off for them.

 

It is a bit curious they didn't counter Jim's offer, or at least give him a chance to match or join in. Maybe they figured better to go for the deal at hand and see if Jim will come in later. 

 

Between the Skinny Pasta and the Maple Water, they seemed to try and dangle some deals that Vikram might go for. Too bad both pitches fell flat hard.

[Oinky Boinky]

How not to pitch in the DD:

 

1. I bought this dog 10 years ago but I am sticking with it

2. I really don't need your money, not sure I need you either.

[UsernameFatigue]

Between the Skinny Pasta and the Maple Water, they seemed to try and dangle some deals that Vikram might go for. Too bad both pitches fell flat hard.

 

But the Maple Water guys pitch didn't fall flat - except with Wex. They got offers from the other 4 dragons. Which is why I said I feel sorry for Vikram as he offered them exactly what they asked for  - $200,000 for 10%. They turned him down in favour of Jim, Arlene and David who offered $300,000 for 30%. I am amazed that they would give up 20 more percent of their company for only $100,000 more. I guess they found value in having three dragons, but I found it odd that when Vik made his pitch he said "you know me, you know my brand". So either they didn't and he just assumed they did, or they didn't find him or his brand that appealing.

[Taeolas]

My bad; I was going off memory and I didn't pay close enough attention it would seem. :) 

 

Then I amend my analysis to say I think pitchers don't know what to expect with Vikram. The elder Dragons have been out there, so getting them on board might be seen as more value than getting the young dragon. Vikram, on top of not going into many deals, doesn't seem eager to pair up either, so he's not getting into deals that way. 

 

Jim, Arlene and David will join together at the drop of a hat (Jim often being the hold out). Michael has quickly realized that his 'in' as a new dragon is to pair up, so he'll make joint deals quickly too. But Vikram seems to prefer to stay a lone wolf, and isn't making deals that way either. 

 

Might be interesting to gather some stats on this season's shows. See how many deals each dragon makes on camera, and how many are paired deals with which other dragons.

[hawk09]

I'd like to see the ratings this year compared to last year, I bet you anything we'll have a new dragon sitting in Vik's chair next season.  I used to enjoy this over Shark Tank because it was more on the serious side, but the pitches and presentations on this show are amateurish and Mickey Mouse looking.  I wonder how some pass the auditions?

[Amarsir]

I liked the furniture guy and so did they. I'd bet if Kevin was there he'd have said something like "you're a nut and I love you but I can't invest in you." It was in many ways an awful pitch, but clearly his goal wasn't simply to get a deal.

What he wanted was for a Dragon to jump up and say "I know exactly what you need to do to make this business work." Since none of them did he wasn't that enthusiastic to get a deal. And you know, if he's making half a million every year he could afford to be a bit cavalier about it.

So, not a great model for how to pitch on Dragons Den. But making a nice living and enjoying yourself makes a pretty good model for how to live.

And you guys are all right on Vikram. On the one hand David had similar problems getting rejected his first year. However David bids on everything and loves to partner. Vikram is a solo specialist who's losing fights for his specialty. That can't be sustained.

[Taeolas]

Wonder of wonders! Vikram made a deal! And it wasn't food related! Honestly it almost felt like it was a gimmie at that point. 

 

The athlete deal had to have been prearranged, not that I mind much. I'm a bit surprised there wasn't more of a joint deal arranged, but all in all I'm fine with it. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

"Losing weight is the hardest thing in the world. Right, Arlene?"

And that, in a nutshell, is a textbook example of how to blow a pitch in the first thirty seconds. That supplement of his could cure cancer, AIDS, and athlete's foot, but there was no way in hell anyone was gonna go in after that.

[sadiegirl]

I probably should put this in David's thread, but I just want to say - I love David.  He's funny, he has great lines, he seems easy going, he's a good sport when he needs to participate in some pitch.  Probably will not happen, but I would love it if he and Arlene got together romantically.  They are my favorites. 

 

Although I wish he was still sitting on Arlene's right.  I just like him better in that position. 

 

I was expecting all 5 Dragons to go in for the ski team.  Very surprised that did not happen.

 

And the guy with the protein bar (or whatever it was) - if your product really can do all those things, you won't need money from the dragons.  People will be beating down your door.  But yes, a very bad pitch.

Edited January 29, 2015 by sadiegirl

[Traveller519]

The ski team deal went down exactly as I expected it to. As an avid skier I've followed a lot of these folks since Sochi. The value in that deal isn't from getting to put your name on the uniform's. It's from being able to call in a roster of Olympians (including the obvious physical appeal of the Dufor-Lapointe sisters or Mike Riddle and Noah Boman, or really a whole stable of 20 something athletes) for your events. Every one of his Difference Capital events now gets to have the Skiers show up in some capacity. And unlike a financial firm sponsoring, a Golfer or Tennis Player, he has a team that he can call on that probably goes 20 to 30 deep.

 

Jim needs branding space, and freestyle skiing isn't going to get him there. Especially since sponsor's can't advertise in the Olympics, which is the most watched competition by a huge multiple. Arlene could make use of the athlete access but not on the scale needed to invest.

[Miss Scarlet]

Love David. He's been my favorite since he started. He's started to get more deals and branch out into more areas, which is great. When he first started he was kind of Vikram-ish.

 

Jim acted like an immature 12 year old boy throughout the reusable pad pitch. I thought it was disrespectful. The other male dragons laughed a bit at the beginning, but then took it seriously. Jim, grow the F up.

 

Wek is fun sometimes, but also annoying and attention-seeking. I can predict the pitches he'll make offers on, because he thinks he's the "cool" dragon and goes for whatever seems young and hip.

 

I'm going to go to tell hell for saying this, but I don't get all patriotic about Canadian athletes and think the lionization of athletes is dumb. I'm very surprised that deal wasn't a gimme, with all the dragons going in on it. Again, not surprised Wek went in at all.

[Amarsir]

The theme for tonight was "let's embarrass Arlene".  Protein Bake guy was so clueless I can't figure out what he was thinking to even try to defend him. Was it "Arlene knows about marketing for weight loss" or "women think about weight loss a lot" or "Arlene is fat" or "Arlene was the first one to talk to me so I'll address her"? Hilarious pitch though, I'm glad he got a full segment not a short one.

 

I would have had trouble taking the pads seriously too.  Not because "ew, women issues" but because it's one of the worst cases of the worst non-ideas we see in the Den.  You didn't invent a new product. You un-invented the disposable version.  We see it all the time.  Invent something that's just as convenient as disposable, but isn't, and you've got a hit.  Bringing back inconvenience does not a hit product make.  I believe they can get sales to a certain select crowd, but that's it.  (Also there's no way someone else hasn't copyrighted "Tree Hugger" by now.)

 

 

The ski team deal went down exactly as I expected it to. As an avid skier I've followed a lot of these folks since Sochi. The value in that deal isn't from getting to put your name on the uniform's. It's from being able to call in a roster of Olympians (including the obvious physical appeal of the Dufor-Lapointe sisters or Mike Riddle and Noah Boman, or really a whole stable of 20 something athletes) for your events. Every one of his Difference Capital events now gets to have the Skiers show up in some capacity. And unlike a financial firm sponsoring, a Golfer or Tennis Player, he has a team that he can call on that probably goes 20 to 30 deep.

That's a really good point.  It's less about bringing your brand to them and more about bringing them to your brand.

[Traveller519]

Thanks

 

I used to work of a financial company that paid a lot of money to sponsor a pretty high profile golfer. I thought that was ludicrous just so that he'd be wearing clothes with your logo on them, then I found out there were all sorts of appearance requirements. Talks, being at events, playing a round of golf with high profile clients, clinics, etc.

[sadiegirl]

Regarding the non-disposable pads - they said women spend $240 a year on disposable pads.  I would like to know how much these pads cost because mine were $6-ish and would cover a month, if not more.  The ones they were selling were $45-ish for 5 or something.  You have to be pretty green to want to go that route.

[hula-la]

Regarding the non-disposable pads - they said women spend $240 a year on disposable pads.  I would like to know how much these pads cost because mine were $6-ish and would cover a month, if not more.  The ones they were selling were $45-ish for 5 or something.  You have to be pretty green to want to go that route.

You know where they do come in handy. There's an organisation that makes the same pads and they package them up and send them to Developing Nations so that girls can use them and continue to go to school. I remember the organiser saying that they sell some of them to people in Canada/US to use because they wanted the reusable aspect. If the Tree Huggers could work together with them, that would be awesome--better than planting a tree, it's giving someone an education.

[UsernameFatigue]

I wasn't comfortable with the athletes on DD looking for sponsorship. That is not what this show is supposed to be about. And to me it put the dragons in a very uncomfortable position. Half a million for 4 years? I was surprised even that Michael went in on it. Even if all of the dragons had gone in, 100 thou per year for four years is a lot of money for I would think Vikram and David, and likely even Arlene. And it isn't like there aren't many other athletes to support (and as Jim said his francise supports hockey in a big way). It's not like they can't approach (and likely do) big names personally. I hope this isn't a trend for DD.

 

I was surprised that Arlene didn't comment on the snaps of the non disposable pads. Seems to me it would be uncomfortable to be sitting on the snaps - I would think velco would be a more comfortable option. I am past needing this product (thank goodness) but would not use it if I was still having to buy said item. Thought it was funny though that all the guys thought it was a great idea.

 

I also didn't really get the baby parka thingy.  I guess it is fine if you are just leaving your home and walking outside, but if you say have to drive somewhere before you plan on wearing a carrier you would still need the kid in a snowsuit or something warm to get him to the car, in the car, etc. Seems like a limited use type item. But good on Vik for making a deal.

Edited January 30, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[The Crazed Spruce]

I took the skiers' pitch as not so much looking for money from a dragon, as promoting the fact that amateur sports in Canada is severely underfunded.

[Amarsir]

I used to work of a financial company that paid a lot of money to sponsor a pretty high profile golfer. I thought that was ludicrous just so that he'd be wearing clothes with your logo on them, then I found out there were all sorts of appearance requirements. Talks, being at events, playing a round of golf with high profile clients, clinics, etc.

Heh. I was working for Accenture when they had Tiger Woods under contract and you're right on all that stuff.  Didn't occur to me until you made the connection. 

 

I wasn't comfortable with the athletes on DD looking for sponsorship. That is not what this show is supposed to be about. And to me it put the dragons in a very uncomfortable position. Half a million for 4 years? I was surprised even that Michael went in on it. Even if all of the dragons had gone in, 100 thou per year for four years is a lot of money for I would think Vikram and David, and likely even Arlene. And it isn't like there aren't many other athletes to support (and as Jim said his francise supports hockey in a big way). It's not like they can't approach (and likely do) big names personally. I hope this isn't a trend for DD.

It reminds me more of something the British predecessor does.  UK Dragons Den likes to have different types of pitches so you get bands looking to be signed, a young Formula 1 Racer seeking a sponsor, an artist who wanted backers for a single art showing, theatrical tours.  Every episode seems to have something besides a straight-up product-selling business. I tend to forget how buttoned-down the CBC (and especially US) versions are until they do something a little different.

 

If we view it as charity it's a little awkward I agree.  But Traveller519 does a good job above explaining how it's more like selling an endorsement.  And when you view it that way it's just a matter of finding the right partner. Which it seems like they did.

[Taeolas]

In the early seasons, Dragons Den .ca used to have the other pitches as well. The young race driver got sponsered by Jim IIRC, and some of the early dragons sponsered shows and similar art projects. And of course Shark Tank has the famous "I will draw a cat for you".

 

I think most of hte pitches have fallen flat so often that there's a combo of people not bothering any more and the product filter folk not bothering to bring them through as often any more.

[UsernameFatigue]

To me the 'Canadian' athletes asking for money was a very different scenario than someone asking for either backing or sponsorship in something they are attempting to support themselves and make a living at. For example the guy from Great Big Sea who was on pitching his movie a couple of weeks ago.

 

These are amateur athletes, and in a whole different category. Several people on here were surprised that all of the dragons did not give the athletes what would have been a minimum of 100 grand each for 4 years had they all participated. Seriously? If I were in the dragons' shoes I would not have sponsored them either. Every person who has disposable cash to donate has the right to give it to the cause(s) that is dearest to his/her heart. But I fault the producers for putting the dragons in this spot of looking like they are not patriotic because they didn't want to (or in most cases can't afford to) fork out two million dollars to support elite athletes. Rubbish.

 

And to clarify, I am not saying they should not look for sponsorships. But not on National TV where you are targeting 5 people. There are thousands and thousands of people and businesses that can be asked in private. And accept or decline in private.

Edited January 30, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[Taeolas]

Well remember, the CBC has the Olympic rights till 2020, so the Mother Corp is probably doing their best to cross promote as best they can and make sure there's going to be a good show come 2018. Bringing in a team to 'ask' for funding on their top show is one way to go about doing that. I wouldn't be surprised that almost everything was prearranged ahead of time, though if that were the case, I'm surprised others couldn't get in on it.