S01.E12: This is That Moment

[MissLucas]

Why would they need a nanny to supervise Ellie's visits - regardless of whether they started right there or in a year? It looked to me as if they both were already retired and planned to take care of Alfie themselves. It never crossed my mind that a nanny would be involved in Alfie's upbringing. But even if that had been the case I doubt Matty or Edwin would not have make sure to be the ones doing the supervising.

As for him going through withdrawal - that was brutal. I had not known that you were not allowed to soothe a baby when they go through the worst. And auntie Google isn't particularly helpful - one site recommends skin to skin contact and another recommends wrapping. Either way having to witness that must be haunting and goes a long way to explain Matty's hard stance.

I feel relatively neutral about Alfie except that I think it's wrong how his grandparents involve him in their schemes. AFAIK long-term effects of baby withdrawal are possible - they can show as developmental or behavioral issues. However from what we've seen so far the show is not going there.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

On another front, I wonder if the revelation that Alfie was born addicted to drugs has affected the opinions of all the Alfie haters in the forum (or at least, the Alfie non-enjoyers).

Not this one's; he's still an annoyingly archetypal character played by an inadequate actor.  They've now given us more information about him, but that's all that has developed thus far.

[Bastet]

I was distracted during part of Thursday night's airing, and now I've re-watched:

The flashbacks to the custody dispute gave great insight into the family dynamic, particularly Ellie crying to Edwin, "Dad, make her stop," and Edwin mouthing, "I'm sorry," after Matty did the hard work of testifying that Ellie is a completely different person when she's using and should not have custody of Alfie at that time.

Regarding the discussion of whether Matty meant Ellie could have supervised visitation now and regain custody after a year of sobriety or nothing until Ellie put together a full, consecutive year: On first watch, I thought nothing other than the former.  Upon re-watching after reading the discussion, that's still where I come down, even though I see the ambiguity.  The only thing that, in my mind, supports the other theory is telling Ellie to hold onto the toy, like she won't see him at all in the interim.  But I think it's just telling her to keep something he loves at her house, so it can be a treat when he returns to living with her rather than only seeing her when she comes to visit. 

Matty has heard Ellie say she's clean, she's working a program, she's been scared straight, before -- including when Ellie said she was clean in announcing her pregnancy and then Alfie was born addicted.  Now she's just found out three months was a lie, it's actually just a month.  Ellie begs her not to take Alfie away, which prompts her to mention the year -- I think she's saying they'll have custody for now, but if Ellie can manage a year's sobriety, they'll relinquish.  Ellie offers, "You can test me every single day," and Matty parrots, "You can have supervised visitation every single day."  I take this as her saying yeah, we'll take it day by day, you seeing him safely and proving your sobriety, and revisit this in a year.  

This tracks with how you acknowledge addiction is a disease and the person is fighting it needs support in that battle, while also protecting the vulnerable child who can be - and has already been - damaged during the times addiction wins -- knowing Ellie should not have custody, step in to provide that, but maintain a relationship between mother and child via supervised visitation until Ellie emerges with the upper hand and tools for ongoing success against the disease, because reunification is the goal. 

The guilt and anger Edwin and Matty each feel, sometimes in conflict with each other, is so realistic in being completely natural yet objectively not wholly justified.  The "Do.You.Blame.Me?" confrontation and "Sometimes" admission was very well done.

Olympia and Julian jailed for contempt and realizing how low they'd sunk, not as well, but it had something to it and I did enjoy - despite the Tums product placement - the judge's increasingly agitated reactions to the antics of Frick and Frack.

I saw criticism of Olympia's juvenile reaction to Elijah's text, and I agree, but also think it somewhat worked (at least in this show's universe) in that she shared it with Matty because it happened when she was right there (if Olympia had done it later, I'd cry every kind of foul), it was brief and she switched her attention to Sarah, and as soon as she realized what had really happened after mentioning it to him, she played it off well.

I came into this thread expecting to see criticism of the ex-husband in the case as a caricature, and am glad not to find it.  The moneybags who hides assets in having child support calculated, walks out with the walking stereotype of a trophy girlfriend who started as his affair partner, claims "parental alienation", and ultimately files for full custody he never wanted until it became an act of revenge and a way to get out of paying -- been there, seen that time and again even in my limited dealings with family court (I used to run the legal clinic of a DV shelter, so divorce and custody was part of that) and a frequent story for those who handle it regularly.  Paloma's desperate panic given his power was nicely established.

Sarah's ignorance of pop culture from before she was born nicely popped up again, this time with not knowing what "Let's get ready for Kramer vs. Kramer" meant.  She was also funny visibly counting to five following Olympia's recommendation -- and when she failed to, leading to the wildly inopportune yet wholly accurate description of neighborhood watch organizations (and I got a chuckle at the neighborhood watch lady joining the chorus of calling Sarah and Billy "You two").  I hope they tone down her lack of social skills, as she's funny as a cartoon but a much more interesting character when they give her layers.

While I'm being verbose, let me finally highlight a set decoration and wardrobe choice I love every time, seen again in this episode's opening scene:  The Kingston bedroom scenes are perfectly done -- that luxurious bed she climbs up into and the collection of silky pajamas they wear.

Edited Wednesday at 06:37 PM by Bastet

[possibilities]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Why would they need a nanny to supervise Ellie's visits -

Someone upthread suggested maybe Elie could have kept custody with a full time nanny, and that Matty and Edwin could afford that, instead of removing custody.

I was reacting to that suggestion.

I am not taking a position on whether Matty was suggesting visits every day or no visits until after a year of sobriety, because I think the dialogue was unclear on that.

But I agree that a nanny would not be useful to supervise visitation, either. In some situations, a social worker would supervise, and intervene if the parent did anything harmful to the child during a visit. Edwin and Matty could serve in this role, as well, as long as they are very clear on intervening if anything unhealthy is happening, and as long as Elie demonstrates that she is sober and not behaving in ways that would further traumatize Alfie.

Because Elie has had more of an emptional presence in the episode, her feelings about losing custody have been more under discussion, and because Alfie is such a bland character and really hasn't shown his feelings about anything, and we haven't seen flashbacks to his trauma, I think people are underestimating how bad his experience apparently was, and how much damage an unfit parent can do, even during visits.

I believe in putting the best interests of the child ahead of the distress of the parent. I also think that it's not helpful to the parent to handwave their harmful behaviors, and that it does not help addicts to make excuses for them. The addiction is dangerous to them. You can understand the disease and still be clear on needing to fight it, and hold people accountable. It's a very difficult situation, and the ability to hold both the love and the firmness at the same time is a real challenge.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Maybe not quite the same, but seeing the child (I’m blanking on his name), rocking back and forth, covering his ears while his parents screamed at each other, reminded me of and episode from L.A. Law in its first season. Abby, one of the new associates, was going through a divorce but her abusive and drunk ass of a husband, who resented her success or that she had a job or whatever, kidnapped their 5 year old. In helping on a divorce case-both parents were using their child as a cudgel and Abby tore into them. It was one of the best episodes from that time.

Not quite the same here, but like I said, it did remind me of it.

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

I saw criticism of Olympia's juvenile reaction to Elijah's text, and I agree, but also think it somewhat worked (at least in this show's universe) in that she shared it with Matty because it happened when she was right there (if Olympia had done it later, I'd cry every kind of foul) and as soon as she realized what had really happened after mentioning it to him, she played it off well.

Now that you've reminded me/us of this brief bit, I wonder if it could lead to Mattie tripping up, like if she suggests to the wrong person at the wrong time that Elijah and Olympia are sexting?

[Bastet]

On 2/22/2025 at 5:56 AM, seacliffsal said:

It also seemed like they are changing the timeline.  It used to be '10 years' but seems to be '14 years' now.

Ten years is from the statement the documents the firm hid could have taken opioids off the market ten years earlier (earlier than what?), from how long ago Ellie died, and how long ago Matty last practiced (so she probably retired to raise Alfie).  Fourteen years ago first came up last episode, as when Senior poached Shae, when she was a marketing analyst for a third party company which had Wellbrexa as a client (with the theory being since she wasn't qualified, the Jacobson Moore hire was a reward for whatever she did re. Wellbrexa), and then in this was affirmed as when the documents in the Wellbrexa case went missing.

On 2/22/2025 at 5:56 AM, seacliffsal said:

Oh, and to add, the basic premise in the premier was that Alfie chose the name Matlock because he used to watch the show with his mom and they enjoyed it.

He didn't say he watched it with her.  When he said in the pilot they chose the name Matlock because it reminds them of Mom, Edwin said he can still picture her, glued to the TV and telling everyone she was going to be a lawyer just like her mom when she grew up.  So Ellie watched it as a kid.  Alfie has seen it, too, because he describes the pattern all the episodes follow, but never said he watched it with her.  

Edited Friday at 06:21 AM by Bastet

[Chicago Redshirt]

I was wondering about Elijah's text: are we sure that he in fact meant to text the other woman? Because if so, it seems to me one of two things should have happened.

If he had previously realized that he sent a text to Olympia that was meant for Other Woman, he would have sent Olympia a follow up text saying "My bad, that was meant for someone else." Especially because there was ample time between when the text was sent and when Olympia came to talk to him in person.

If he hadn't previously realized that he made a mistake, he should have been like, "Whatchu talkin' bout, Olympia?" when she started to raise his text.

Given that it is hard to accidentally text someone -- the name of the person you're texting is right at the top of the message, after all -- and given that I find Elijah petty and semi-shady in general, I think it more likely that he's playing mind games with Olympia. Having a woman he's in the early stages of dating come to his office also strikes me as odd (unless she also works for Jacobson Moore, which maybe she does).

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Given that it is hard to accidentally text someone -- the name of the person you're texting is right at the top of the message, after all -- and given that I find Elijah petty and semi-shady in general, I think it more likely that he's playing mind games with Olympia. Having a woman he's in the early stages of dating come to his office also strikes me as odd (unless she also works for Jacobson Moore, which maybe she does).

100% agreement, if for no other reason than you can’t tell me if Elijah was like any other normal human sending a flirtatious text he wouldn’t be checking every 5-10 minutes for a reply - and had opportunity each time to notice his “mistake” - especially after an hour or more has passed without a reply.

Purely MHO but (a) I don’t think Elijah is anywhere NEAR as okay with this breakup as he lets on, and (b) I also suspect this whole “I want you back / no I don’t” schtick of his is demonstrative of a really nasty mean streak which (to date) he has been hiding VERY well - from us, anyway.

[eel2178]

23 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if I would trust an over-the-counter kit with someone as much of a confirmed liar as Ellie is. Then again, Ellie has apparently worked her way around other tests that are presumably professionally done, so shrug emoji?

I'm sure Ellie's mother would have no qualms about following her into their home bathroom and watching her pee in a cup to be sure that the specimen had clearly come directly from her.

[Bastet]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

Purely MHO but (a) I don’t think Elijah is anywhere NEAR as okay with this breakup as he lets on, and (b) I also suspect this whole “I want you back / no I don’t” schtick of his is demonstrative of a really nasty mean streak which (to date) he has been hiding VERY well - from us, anyway.

He didn't hide it during the case where he and Olivia were on opposite side of the firewall (where she represented the widower against the company that hadn't maintained its buildings), when he was petty and vengeful because he was pissed she'd called things off.  He wound up admitting it and apologizing before saying he was going to go work in the Dallas office for a while, but that kind of behavior is usually not a one-off.   So if it turns out he's still playing games, just lower key, it won't be a shock.  But I'd like if he's genuine.

Edited Thursday at 08:00 AM by Bastet

[psychfan]

On 2/21/2025 at 12:39 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Only after Ellie had been clean for a year.  So not for 11 months.  

I thought the clean for a year was to revisit custody, that thing with keeping his lovey with Ellie for when he went back home.

[christie]

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

On another front, I wonder if the revelation that Alfie was born addicted to drugs has affected the opinions of all the Alfie haters in the forum (or at least, the Alfie non-enjoyers). As someone who falls into the latter category, I don't think I am any happier with the character, but I am curious. Does he know about the custody battle over him, about his mom neglectfully letting him burn himself, about having been addicted to drugs? Have there been any lasting effects from his addictions and his baby seizures? Does he have any actual memories of his mother? Have Matty and Edwin been truthful about Ellie when talking to Alfie or doing a lot of spin. Is the "MWBSP" thing extra BS?

Knowing that Alfie was born addicted to drugs doesn't change my opinion of him. As to the other questions you've raised:

It's highly unlikely that Alfie remembers his mum since he was 18 months old when she died.

So far we haven't been shown that Alfie has some lasting effects from his drug addiction or his seizures; on the contrary, he's been portrayed as some computing wiz kid.

As to what Alfie knows re the custody battle, burning his hand, his drug addiction, I doubt his grandparents told him about that; if he still has some complications due to his drug addiction then, yes they would have told him since it still affects him otherwise no, I don't think they would tell him. Telling Alfie about the custody battle and his burnt hand would paint Ellie in a bad light so I don't think they told him. When Alfie talks about his mum, there's adoration in his tone and he always mentions happy things; he reminds me of someone who talks about their favourite actor or singer and has an idealised image of them. From that I conclude that Matty and Edwin have told him all the good and have glossed over the bad, only telling him what he needs to know - Ellie died from a drug overdose.

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

 

On 2/26/2025 at 12:46 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

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Edited Yest. at 08:02 AM by christie

[Bastet]

13 hours ago, christie said:

As to what Alfie knows re the custody battle, burning his hand, his drug addiction, I doubt his grandparents told him about that; if he still has some complications due to his drug addiction then, yes they would have told him since it still affects him otherwise no, I don't think they would tell him. Telling Alfie about the custody battle and his burnt hand would paint Ellie in a bad light so I don't think they told him. When Alfie talks about his mum, there's adoration in his tone and he always mentions happy things; he reminds me of someone who talks about their favourite actor or singer and has an idealised image of them. From that I conclude that Matty and Edwin have told him all the good and have glossed over the bad, only telling him what he needs to know - Ellie died from a drug overdose.

Yeah, I think what we saw in "Claws" is probably what has been Matty and Edwin's MO in addressing this with Alfie all along:  Ellie was an addict.  She fought, which means she quit multiple times, but addiction means you can get it right 99 times, but when you slip the 100th, you have to start the fight all over, so she continued to struggle after he came along, even though she loved him more than anything.  If he knows they took custody right before Ellie died, rather than thinking they got it because she died, I don't know; I suspect not.  If they've told him the timing, though, I imagine they've skipped details, just saying she was going through another rough patch and it was better he be with them at the time, and then unfortunately she overdosed before she could get herself in a place to regain custody.