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S24.E09 Enemy of the State

Xeliou66

By Xeliou66
in Law & Order

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

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Great episode - lots of really good twists in it, and good stuff for each character. Investigation was really strong as usual, Shaw/Riley are a great pairing, I liked how they went through their suspects, and the action scene was much more natural and not forced like in some episodes. The FBI twist caught me off guard, that was a good one. The FBI agent clearly crossed the line here and deserved to be held accountable, glad the jury agreed. We saw Detective Yee again, that was interesting, sometimes I thought they relied too much on her in the past but her role here was good and necessary. I thought Brady got a bit too much screen time, maybe it’s because I love watching Riley and Shaw and so it kind of frustrates me how often Brady takes the lead in interrogations, but Brady has become a better character and gels better with everyone else now.

Great legal stuff as well, Price and Baxter were both really strong, Price did a great job prosecuting, and I liked seeing Baxter stand up and risk taking a hit to his reputation and possibly getting blowback from the feds in order to see justice served. I liked how Price and Baxter didn’t really get heated, Price just laid things out and Baxter followed his conscience and took the stand. Baxter and Price and Maroun may not always see things the same way, but they all want to see justice served and that’s what makes the show work. I liked Price forcefully making a point in court after Baxter’s testimony and the judge rebuking him, I think Price has shown more fire lately and I like that, my biggest complaint about him is that he’s been too low key at times. And I’m really liking Baxter as the DA, I like how they went with someone very different from McCoy but who still has a passion to see justice served.

No soapy personal nonsense was a big plus.

I didn’t really get the point of the men’s rights macho boxer red herring (clearly based on Andrew Tate) it was obvious he was a red herring, and I would’ve preferred Shaw/Riley interrogating him than Brady.

Overall this was really good, nice twisted case that flowed well, good stuff for each character, compelling story from start to finish. Well done episode. 

  • Like 12
dubbel zout

dubbel zout

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked seeing Baxter stand up and risk taking a hit to his reputation and possibly getting blowback from the feds in order to see justice served

After Baxter testified I thought, "Oh, things with the FBI are going to be awkward for a while."

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would’ve preferred Shaw/Riley interrogating him than Brady.

That he was a men's-right activist was why Brady interrogated him. She hoped her presence would irritate him enough to incriminate himself.

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SAS

SAS

The more Nick turns out to be JUST slightly shady and also keeps stuff from Nolan (he could have told him he wrote the guidelines for that program back when Nolan said the guy went too far but kept it quiet, for example), the more he builds Nolan's distrust of him and I'm here for it. Honestly let Nolan read him for filth at least once a month pls. I love what they're doing with these two characters.

  • Like 4
txhorns79

txhorns79

1 hour ago, SAS said:

Honestly let Nolan read him for filth at least once a month pls. I love what they're doing with these two characters.

It does build tension, but it also makes me wonder why Nick doesn't just fire Nolan.  It's not like he has to tolerate a hostile subordinate.  So let's just have the inevitable "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" conversation and get it over with.

 

43 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t like it that he tried to rebuke Nolan at the end by bringing up the fact no other buildings in NY have been attacked.

It's a lazy argument.  There have been smaller scale attacks in NYC since 9/11.   

  • Like 6
Xeliou66

Xeliou66

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43 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t like it that he tried to rebuke Nolan at the end by bringing up the fact no other buildings in NY have been attacked. You can’t legally lure someone by threatening violence to their family members. The FBI agent was shady as hell. I’m starting to think Nick is shady too.

I don’t think Nick is shady, and he explicitly said it was illegal to threaten violence against family - the guidelines he wrote were blatantly violated by the rogue FBI agent as he testified to. I thought the final scene could’ve been written a bit better to express both Nick’s and Nolan’s viewpoints, instead of just Nick defending his views, I could see both sides of the argument, and I think the final scene should’ve been written to express Nick and Nolan agreeing to disagree on the specifics of the law. But it was clear that Nick didn’t condone or like the actions of this agent as shown by his testimony and his charging the agent with manslaughter in the first place. 

6 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It does build tension, but it also makes me wonder why Nick doesn't just fire Nolan.  It's not like he has to tolerate a hostile subordinate.  So let's just have the inevitable "Is this because I'm a lesbian?" conversation and get it over with.

 

It's a lazy argument.  There have been smaller scale attacks in NYC since 9/11.   

I don’t think Nolan is a hostile subordinate, just because him and Nick don’t always see things the same doesn’t mean it’s hostile - never in the history of the show have all of the prosecution characters seen the world through the same lens, but the only relationship I think was somewhat hostile was Arthur and Serena. But all of the DA characters in the history of the show have had differences of opinions on various cases, and that’s natural. 

  • Like 3
txhorns79

txhorns79

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

But all of the DA characters in the history of the show have had differences of opinions on various cases, and that’s natural. 

I feel as though Nolan and Nick's arguments are less about the two just having respectful disagreements about a case, and make it seem like Nolan believes Nick is not a good person.  And I won't even get into the ridiculousness of the DA being called as a witness by his own ADAs in a trial brought by his office.     

  • Like 1
Xeliou66

Xeliou66

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10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I feel as though Nolan and Nick's arguments are less about the two just having respectful disagreements about a case, and make it seem like Nolan believes Nick is not a good person.  And I won't even get into the ridiculousness of the DA being called as a witness by his own ADAs in a trial brought by his office.     

I have to disagree, I don’t think Nolan dislikes Nick or believes he’s not a good person, he doesn’t trust him 100% the way he trusted Jack but I don’t feel like their relationship is one of disdain. And we’ve seen the DA called as a witness before - Jack was called by Cutter as a witness in the season 18 episode Illegal when the DAs office was being called biased by the defense, so this wasn’t the first time the DA has been called as a rebuttal witness.

  • Like 3
Raja

Raja

32 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

It's a lazy argument.  There have been smaller scale attacks in NYC since 9/11.   

With Lupo and Bernard providing the explosives in their botched terrorism hunt episode.

A fine episode but when they gave the target as being in Brooklyn and our star pair was seemingly first on the scene before the FBI Agent got an alert or especially the first responders in Brooklyn. And then the Lieutenant doing the interrogation of a terrorism suspect came the unbelievable portion 

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t think Nolan dislikes Nick or believes he’s not a good person, he doesn’t trust him 100% the way he trusted Jack but I don’t feel like their relationship is one of disdain.

Baxter is very political character and I think that makes him predictable in some respects and unpredictable in others.  It was unpredictable he was a part of this but the reasons why he didn't tell Nolan or want to talk about it were very predictable. 

I think Nolan respects him but he's never going to know if Baxter will lead with idealogy, politics or self-interest. 

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t like it that he tried to rebuke Nolan at the end by bringing up the fact no other buildings in NY have been attacked.

Me neither.  Especially since it's not like large-scale attacks of that scale aren't exactly common. 

  • Like 1
Raja

Raja

13 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

Not a bad episode but I don't like how they just jump right to trial. Where were all the discussions about trial strategy/prep, pre-trial motions, etc...

Looking forward to next week's ER reunion! 

That was the Maroun scene with Nolan looking over her shoulder before the twist the Jihadi recruiter. Now they could have taken time from Andrew Tate- since the show focuses on the FBI. 

It was strange for an undercover in his position to break character on the street. NYPD acted professionally enough that he shouldn't have feared a street execution. And where was his boss long before the arrest?

  • Like 1
storyskip

storyskip

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t like it that he tried to rebuke Nolan at the end by bringing up the fact no other buildings in NY have been attacked. You can’t legally lure someone by threatening violence to their family members. The FBI agent was shady as hell. I’m starting to think Nick is shady too.

Agreed.

Part of why that final exchange between Nick and Nolan ruined an otherwise A+ episode to me is that Nick made it personal.

"The problem with people like you ..."

If the line had instead been "The problem with the view point of people like you..." or something along those lines, then it would have sounded more like Nick was arguing a POV. Arguing a POV has always been part of the "Order" side of L&O mothership, and it makes professional sense. The D.A. and the ADAs are supposed to argue all perspectives because that way it helps them anticipate moves and arguments the defense attorneys might bring.

But the way Nick's line was written and delivered it came across as a dismissive, petty personal attack on Nolan as a person.

It's rather like the nuanced difference between "Nick is more political than Jack, so Nolan can't trust which DA he's going to be working with case over case. Could be Baxter the man who wants justice for the victims, or Baxter the political operative who might let things slide in the perception of 'the greater good'". Vs the idea that Nick is corrupt/shady.

  • Like 5
ML89

ML89

11 hours ago, storyskip said:

Part of why that final exchange between Nick and Nolan ruined an otherwise A+ episode to me is that Nick made it personal.

"The problem with people like you ..."

 

Yes. I so wanted Nolan to say “people like me? What the hell do you mean by that?” It needed Cutter or Connie for that line, but I did like Nolan for the first time in maybe ever. I too think we’re heading to some sort of showdown.

 

On 1/17/2025 at 9:27 AM, dubbel zout said:

After Baxter testified I thought, "Oh, things with the FBI are going to be awkward for a while."

Oh yeah. 
 

Pretty good ep - Shaw and Riley are always the standout but Shaw drew his gun way too far away from the suspect and Riley was just crazy to go for that takedown. I guess they were happy they didn’t have to chase anyone. 

Nice to see Detective Yee again too. 

  • Like 1
Raja

Raja

(edited)
27 minutes ago, ML89 said:

 

Pretty good ep - Shaw and Riley are always the standout but Shaw drew his gun way too far away from the suspect and Riley was just crazy to go for that takedown. I guess they were happy they didn’t have to chase anyone. 

Nice to see Detective Yee again too. 

Man with a detonator a pistol shot by an ordinary detective without the super sniper stuff or a last ditch tackle in the line of friendly are equally crazy but no choice situations.

Edited by Raja
  • Like 1
shapeshifter

shapeshifter

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

Pretty good ep - Shaw and Riley are always the standout but Shaw drew his gun way too far away from the suspect

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Man with a detonator a pistol shot by an ordinary detective without the super sniper stuff or a last ditch tackle in the line of friendly are equally crazy but no choice situations.

Am I the only one who burst out laughing when Shaw drew a gun on a bomber in a crowded stampede of bystanders while Riley jumped the bomber from behind without setting off the detonator?

Maybe. I rarely laugh at actual comedies.  

 

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Raja

Raja

56 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who burst out laughing when Shaw drew a gun on a bomber in a crowded stampede of bystanders while Riley jumped the bomber from behind without setting off the detonator?

Maybe. I rarely laugh at actual comedies.  

 

I was thinking that Detective Shaw was near a Kobayashi Maru situation where shooting meant a greater chance to hit an innocent bystander but he needed to chance the shot as the only hope to save us all from the bomb

SAS

SAS

20 hours ago, storyskip said:

It's rather like the nuanced difference between "Nick is more political than Jack, so Nolan can't trust which DA he's going to be working with case over case. Could be Baxter the man who wants justice for the victims, or Baxter the political operative who might let things slide in the perception of 'the greater good'". Vs the idea that Nick is corrupt/shady.

It's true but I think the way Baxter ends up knowing or doing things and not sharing them with the ADAs conducting the trial until they find out on their own makes him FEEL shady. Not necessarily that he's outright being corrupt; I don't think Nolan believes he is on the take or something but I think Nolan believes he is about his own political self-interest above all else and will be about justice for the victims when it won't impact that or the optics make it look good on him. He does believe Nick is a good lawyer but he does not trust that he will act in the best interest of the case. While he disagreed with Jack sometimes and Jack did order him to do things he didn't want to do or in a way he didn't want to do, he did always trust that Jack had the best interest of the case in mind. He's always had to wear the backlash for things he was ordered to do, even when he was the only person in the room protesting them, but it tastes kind of bitter when Nick is doing the ordering because he doesn't trust his motives. Like with the judge and he was ordered to cut a deal so she didn't have to testify and the victim's brother goes "You're a sell out, Price" he was startled for a second but then just looked over at Nick like yeah we fricking are.

I do also think this will come to a head at some point. Nolan has gotten bolder in his condemnation.

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SAS

SAS

@shapeshifter Yeah i think that's definitely a factor, meta-wise. And I agree with one of the above comments that Nick's "People like you" speech (what, people who value human rights? people who believe bypassing human rights to 'get results' makes you the same as the people who kill for any other ideology?) was almost startling in how it seemed targeted at Nolan as a person rather than at a belief system, but also Nolan's face did not look impressed by it, and I do like the conflict coming from "this is the practical view based on the political reality" of Nick vs "this is the law and this is the justice the victim deserved and that should be honoured regardless"  of Nolan they have going on since Nick arrived. In 24x02, when Olivia says "Who benefits from this girl sitting in prison?" like the idea was absurd and Nolan, without hesitating, goes "The family of the dead man? Let's start there?" I think the writers are finally figuring out Nolan's place in the show's philosophy and finally really letting Hugh Dancy go to work.

  • Like 5
dubbel zout

dubbel zout

5 hours ago, SAS said:

I think the way Baxter ends up knowing or doing things and not sharing them with the ADAs conducting the trial until they find out on their own makes him FEEL shady.

I don't think Baxter feels shady. IMO, the ADAs find out stuff when they need find it out. 

Logistically it works better that Nolan finds things out and then confronts Baxter; otherwise, we'd have a scene where Baxter preemptively says (in the case of this week's revelation), "Oh, you charged an FBI agent? Back in day I worked on the brief for what was and wasn't legal for developing terror sources." IMO, that's a clunky way to get the info across. And it deprives Nolan of getting on his moral high horse, heh.

  • Like 3
storyskip

storyskip

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Well put, @SAS. 

Perhaps the writers are also trying to sneak in some subtle references to political stuff in today's zeitgeist without offending any viewers or distracting from the COTW.

I was actually thinking about this. I know we give the writers a lot of well earned grief, but in the vein of blind squirrels and nuts, I think they may have found a nuanced way to address the conflict of interest that is impossible to avoid when DA's are an elected position.

Because there is no way to avoid the position becoming politicized, as well as having DAs becoming so concerned about optics and re-election that they begin to lose sight of law and justice.

Most of the DAs on the mothership were shown to be men at the end of their careers, and while they sometimes made calls with an eye towards optics, they weren't as concerned with the next election cycle as Baxter appears to be.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

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Nick Baxter is much more similar to Adam and Arthur than to Jack as DA, Jack didn’t care at all about the political stuff, whereas Adam and Arthur were more adept at navigating the political minefield and were concerned with the image of their office and with considerations other than winning or losing. But I think Nick has integrity and cares strongly about justice, as shown by his actions in this episode and a few other times, he just goes about his duties differently than Jack did and sees the world a bit differently. His backstory is more similar to Adam and Arthur also - Nick was a federal prosecutor and a defense attorney over the course of his career, while Jack spent his whole career as an ADA until becoming DA. 
It’s impossible to replace a legend like Jack, but I think Baxter is doing a pretty good job as DA, I think he gets quite a bit of heat at times from the viewers because he’s replacing a beloved legend - I am glad he’s very different from Jack but still a compelling character. I like what he brings to the show, and the fact that Jack had a reduced role in many episodes due to his age helped the transition to a new DA.

As for this episode I thought it was pretty great overall, I just would’ve had the final scene written a bit differently where instead of Nick just defending his views, him and Nolan agree to disagree on the specifics of the laws but agree that they got the right verdict on the case. It was the only scene that I felt the writing was a bit off on, other than that it was one of the revival’s best episodes actually.

And that’s pretty much all I have to say for this discussion. 

  • Like 1
txhorns79

txhorns79

45 minutes ago, storyskip said:

Most of the DAs on the mothership were shown to be men at the end of their careers, and while they sometimes made calls with an eye towards optics, they weren't as concerned with the next election cycle as Baxter appears to be.

They did do a season long storyline in Season 8 with Adam being challenged for re-election by a candidate supported by a former friend of Adam's who was angry over his grandchild taking a plea(?) that put him in a hospital rather than jail. 

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