S07.E09: Unfinished Business

[Quickbeam]

The second part of season 7 is finally here. 

[Haleth]

Wow, nobody posted yet?  Has interest really dropped that much?

Ian Sr made me cry. He continues to be the wisest, kindest person in the family. Waving goodbye to Wee Ian for the last time broke my heart.

Now that things are resolved with Laoghaire (I know I spelled that wrong) we never have to see her again. I’m going to have to check IMDb to see where I know Joanie from.  (Layla Burns. Nope, don’t know her.)

i miss Laura Donnelly. Liked her better as Jenny.

I burst out laughing when the herbalist answered Roger’s knock. I’d read the book years ago but didn’t remember this. Will he tell Buck?  Probably not so Buck doesn’t try to change anything.

Good start to the season back end of the last season. 

Edited November 23 by Haleth

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Now that things are resolved with Laoghaire (I know I spelled that wrong)

You spelled it right!

[Glade]

New Jenny felt cringe, imo, as she tried too hard to mimic LD's amazing performance.  I really wasn't expecting Roger to go back to a different time, and was blown away when Geillis answered the door!  This will be really interesting!  Matches the speculation we had last year though, that the kidnapper might actually be going back in time due to some relation with Geillis/wanting to see her...  As usual Jaimie is a gentleman but Leerie will never take responsibility for her own part, including multiple counts of attempted murder, and that during their marriage she gave him the silent treatment for weeks at a time, so no wonder he left.

Edited November 23 by Glade

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Wow, nobody posted yet?  Has interest really dropped that much?

I was looking forward to reading a post by the non-book-reader poster who's always complaining about the time travel rules being made up as they go along.

Loved New Jenny's performance, thought it was totally in character.

Edited November 23 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Clanstarling]

I don't generally cry watching TV, but boy was I losing it there at the end of the episode. I really related to the goodbyes to Ian, to the other ones as well.

Loved every minute of it, though I kept wondering why Jenny didn't look familiar to me. So now I know. Good for the original actress who is doing so well she couldn't fit this into her schedule, though I missed her (without realizing it).

I'm glad the show is back. I missed my time traveling lovers and their families.

I remember some of the stuff Roger will encounter, so I'm looking forward to that too.

 

[Quickbeam]

I liked this episode, I thought they covered a lot of ground well. Broke my heart when Jenny asked Claire to cure Ian. End stage consumption/tuberculosis is fatal, much like late COPD now. But we have advanced so far in our understanding of health in 200+ years. 
 

I really miss Laura Donnelly. She was brilliant. 

[Cdh20]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

Wow, nobody posted yet?  Has interest really dropped that much?

Ian Sr made me cry. He continues to be the wisest, kindest person in the family. Waving goodbye to Wee Ian for the last time broke my heart.

Now that things are resolved with Laoghaire (I know I spelled that wrong) we never have to see her again. I’m going to have to check IMDb to see where I know Joanie from.  (Layla Burns. Nope, don’t know her.)

i miss Laura Donnelly. Liked her better as Jenny.

I burst out laughing when the herbalist answered Roger’s knock. I’d read the book years ago but didn’t remember this. Will he tell Buck?  Probably not so Buck doesn’t try to change anything.

Good start to the season back end of the last season. 

Not the last season, we still have season 8 to look forward to

[Haleth]

39 minutes ago, Cdh20 said:

Not the last season, we still have season 8 to look forward to

I meant the last season we saw. But that’s good news!

[Cdh20]

18 minutes ago, Haleth said:

I meant the last season we saw. But that’s good news!

Oops I see how I misunderstood that!  But yes good news for all of us

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

I meant the last season we saw. But that’s good news!

Yes, it was confirmed before Season 7 aired that it would be 16 episodes split in two and Season 8 would be the final season, of 10 episodes.

[BitterApple]

Yay! Outlander is back!

I thought the episode was good. I was NOT expecting the two plot twists: Roger ending up in the wrong time, and Geillis appearing at the end. I'm really curious to see how things unfold, now that we've got three timeliness.

New Jenny was....okay. She didn't quite capture the feisty spirit of the original, but she wasn't so bad that it took me out of the moment. The scenes with Ian Sr. and Jr. were so emotional, especially when they said good-bye, knowing they'd never see each other again. 

My only eye-rolling moment was the Lord John letter. It seems unlikely his nephew would survive the months it would take for a letter to find Claire and for her to travel back to America, all while having musket balls embedded in his abdomen, but that's television for you! 😄

[ferjy]

Glad to have it back, but could it have been a more miserable episode! (as in sad) I’ve been sick last couple of days so feeling blah and was waiting to be cheered up with a happy reunion in Scotland. Instead we have older Ian dying, young Ian re-mourning his babe, and Claire having to leave Jamie (again! …someone needs to Crazy Glue those together). And so much for Scotland. One episode in and we’re going back to America. I suppose we’ll get a few glimpses of Jamie’s life, but most of the action will probably be with Claire. Good ending though with Geillis answering the door! That may be the more interesting story this season  

I was glad to see Laoghaire again as I like the actress. Speaking of miserable.“What is SHE doing here?” 😄 Besotted Joey Boswell has no idea what he’s in for. 

 

[ferjy]

6 hours ago, BitterApple said:

My only eye-rolling moment was the Lord John letter. It seems unlikely his nephew would survive the months it would take for a letter to find Claire and for her to travel back to America, all while having musket balls embedded in his abdomen, but that's television for you! 😄

lol And honestly, that’s a big ask of Lord John. It’s not as if she is just around the corner. And not in future time where travel is relatively quick. Claire should have brought a jet back with her, with all the back and forth she’s had to do. She should go to Craig na Dun and just pop out the other side in the New World. 😉

 

[Haleth]

Oh yeah, I meant to say something about that. How many weeks did it take for the letter to reach Claire?  And how many weeks would it take for her to get to Philly?  So the poor nephew is going to linger with a musket ball in the belly for months?

50 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Claire should have brought a jet

Too bad Bree isn’t around to invent one. 🙄

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

My only eye-rolling moment was the Lord John letter. It seems unlikely his nephew would survive the months it would take for a letter to find Claire and for her to travel back to America, all while having musket balls embedded in his abdomen, but that's television for you! 😄

Thank you! I tried to write something like that, but I couldn't boil it down for clarification - great job. On a semi-related note - I laughed out loud watching Pocahontas with my kids when John Smith (?) had to do the opposite (take a boat to England) for the same reason. 

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Oh yeah, I meant to say something about that. How many weeks did it take for the letter to reach Claire?  And how many weeks would it take for her to get to Philly?  So the poor nephew is going to linger with a musket ball in the belly for months?

Too bad Bree isn’t around to invent one. 🙄

Just did a quick Google search. Transatlantic crossings in the late 1700s could take anywhere from one to two months, depending on the time of year, route, winds, type of ship, etc. Then throw in however long it would take Claire to travel from Lallybroch to the coast to catch the boat. Nephew Henry must have one hell of an immune system to stave off infection for that long! 

[BitterApple]

On 11/23/2024 at 10:03 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I was looking forward to reading a post by the non-book-reader poster who's always complaining about the time travel rules being made up as they go along.

Loved New Jenny's performance, thought it was totally in character.

I'm not a book reader, but I've always handwaved the time travel as either a) taking you to the time period you're thinking about or b) taking you to where you're destined to be. I think leaving it ambiguous is a smart writing decision, because if the rules are set in stone, it doesn't give you much wiggle room if you want to change things as the plot unfolds. I didn't realize people got upset that there weren't clear parameters.

Edited November 24 by BitterApple

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don’t like this new Jenny. She looks older than Jamie, and she's his little sister. Even in 1739 where she’s supposed to be a teenager she’s not believable. Also the chemistry just isn’t there like it was with Laura Donnelly. 

And foock me, I’d thought we’d seen the last of Hosebeast! She’s still delusional, hypocritical, and vengeful as FUCK.

Oh but how wonderful to see Steven Cree back as Ian!

And GORGEOUS Scotland!

And of course, Jamie and Claire and Wee Ian! Glad to see same actor and that played Jamie’s namesake is back. Which bums me to no end that Laura wasn’t available to play Jenny again.

WOT?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

53 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t like this new Jenny. She looks older than Jamie, and she's his little sister. Even in 1739 where she’s supposed to be a teenager she’s not believable. Also the chemistry just isn’t there like it was with Laura Donnelly.

Oh but how wonderful to see Steven Cree back as Ian!

Which bums me to no end that Laura wasn’t available to play Jenny again.

WOT?

Jenny is two years older than Jamie. Jamie is the youngest child of Brian and Ellen. Their firstborn was William, who died. If Jamie is 18 or 19 in Roger's timeframe, as Roger said to himself, then Jenny is 20 or 21. Don't take offense, but I was honestly surprised you thought Jenny was Jamie's little sister, she was established as the older one so early on.

Steven Cree gives a very good performance as Ian!

Laura didn't want to return.

54 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I think leaving it ambiguous is a smart writing decision, because if the rules are set in stone, it doesn't give you much wiggle room if you want to change things as the plot unfolds. I didn't realize people got upset that there weren't clear parameters.

I agree.

Edited November 24 by Noneofyourbusiness

[GHScorpiosRule]

25 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Jenny is two years older than Jamie. Jamie is the youngest child of Brian and Ellen.

She is? Why did I think she was younger? I could have sworn Show said she was 16 to Jaime’s 18 in season when when Black Jack was trying to rape her.

Either way, the chemistry’s not there for me.

Too bad that Laura didn’t want to return.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

23 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

She is? Why did I think she was younger? I could have sworn Show said she was 16 to Jaime’s 18 in season when when Black Jack was trying to rape her.

I just word-searched through the transcripts of all the Season 1 episodes Jenny appeared in, and there's no mention of "16", "18", "sixteen" or "eighteen".

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I just word-searched through the transcripts of all the Season 1 episodes Jenny appeared in, and there's no mention of "16", "18", "sixteen" or "eighteen".

I don’t want to argue over this. I stated what I thought and you clarified. No need to dive deep for specifics.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

43 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don’t want to argue over this. I stated what I thought and you clarified. No need to dive deep for specifics.

...Huh??? It's not an argument. If you remembered this, I thought it was possible you were right, the show had changed their ages and that I had forgotten something from Season 1, so I checked to make sure. Perfectly normal thing to do. Especially as I'm a copyeditor-proofreader.

Edited November 24 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Too bad that Laura didn’t want to return.

My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that she's so booked up on other jobs, she couldn't open a space in her schedule to do this episode. It is too bad she wasn't in it, though. She had a different energy. But the other actress did okay.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that she's so booked up on other jobs, she couldn't open a space in her schedule to do this episode. It is too bad she wasn't in it, though. She had a different energy. But the other actress did okay.

The scheduling thing was when she didn't appear in Season 4. She's previously said she didn't want to play older Jenny, she's apparently found the fandom toxic, and her representatives didn't answer when asked exactly why she wasn't appearing this season.

[taanja]

On 11/23/2024 at 12:03 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I was looking forward to reading a post by the non-book-reader poster who's always complaining about the time travel rules being made up as they go along.

Loved New Jenny's performance, thought it was totally in character.

Hello! That would be me!

I was blown away (but in a good way) when Roger and whatshisname ended up in the wrong time! and Geillis! However, that time travel crap seems to have no rhyme nor reason! That said - I really want Jaime to travel forward to Claire's time. I don't care that he supposedly can't -- the author owns this shit - she can change anything she likes! She can make Jaime get hit in the head or some other convoluted crap and voila! he hears the stones hum and whoosh! he is gone!

Anyway, the letter from Lord John. So it traveled for ... weeks? months? before if found Claire in Scotland? And dude is laying on his death bed with musket balls in his belly. It's going to take -- how long for Claire to return to the colonies? Talk about a convoluted reason the separate Claire and Jaime. 

Who is the guy with Roger? How is he related? 

Just popped on to edit - I just read that Buck is Geillis's and Dougal's son! Oy vey! I know Roger said something about what happens if Buck dies does he (Roger) exist then?

Edited November 25 by taanja
answered my own question

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

Who is the guy with Roger? How is he related? 

Just popped on to edit - I just read that Buck is Geillis's and Dougal's son! Oy vey! I know Roger said something about what happens if Buck dies does he (Roger) exist then?

I chuckled when Roger said that.  I was thinking, well, he already had a son who is Roger's great-great ??? grandfather, so I would think Roger and Jemmy would exists.  But what the heck do I know? :-)

[Night Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I chuckled when Roger said that.  I was thinking, well, he already had a son who is Roger's great-great ??? grandfather, so I would think Roger and Jemmy would exists.  But what the heck do I know? :-)

Yeah I rolled my eyes at that. Bad writing, or was Roger just out of sorts and not thinking clearly? Because, yeah, the line of succession is fine if Buck dies, it's his son that you would need to worry about dying unexpectedly. Assuming Bucks son is too young and hasn't already produced the next son in Roger's family tree.

[Maisiesmom]

It was so good to see this show again. I felt like I was visiting old friends after a long separation. Didn't really need to see Leery (ugh) but her daughter is very pretty. I don't mind the new Jenny-she did fine. I also liked the voice-overs in Rogers thoughts. Guess he missed his mark by a few years! I was also surprised by how calmly everyone took it when Claire spilled the tea about her being from the future. Too bad she can't save Ian the Older. And how long will it take to go back to the colonies to help Lord John's nephew? The poor guy would be dead by then. I got a little weepy when the 2 Ians said good-bye. And Gellis is there now? Should be interesting how all that works out. (As an aside and a bit off topic, there was a show called Brittania (I think it was on Epix) and Laura Donnely played a bounty type hunter. She was really good. And, the actor who played the Compte was in it too. He looked quite different without the silly white wig.) Anyway, glad the show is back!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

Yeah I rolled my eyes at that. Bad writing, or was Roger just out of sorts and not thinking clearly?

The latter, I'm sure. He's in a really weird and unprecedented situation; it's only natural thoughts like that would pass through his head. He wasn't even sure if time travelers' bodies would evaporate if they died.

6 hours ago, taanja said:

Hello! That would be me!

I was blown away (but in a good way) when Roger and whatshisname ended up in the wrong time! and Geillis!

Yay! In shows like this and House of the Dragon it's always more fun following the reactions of people who haven't read the books.

2 hours ago, Maisiesmom said:

I was also surprised by how calmly everyone took it when Claire spilled the tea about her being from the future. Too bad she can't save Ian the Older. And how long will it take to go back to the colonies to help Lord John's nephew? The poor guy would be dead by then.

They seemed stunned rather than calm to me.

Spoiler

That's an adaptational problem. In the books, Lord John's letter reached Claire and Ian when they'd already returned to America.

Even back then, it was possible for someone with a lodged musketball to linger on for a long while with daily palliative care, however.

Edited November 25 by Noneofyourbusiness

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't know if I like the show airing in winter instead of spring. Also, I can't watch until Monday versus same day. 

I barely remember anything that happened last time. I totally forgot they're in different timelines, and that Jemmy was kidnapped. Huge shame they recast Jenny too. Young Ian continues to deliver though.

I think they struck a good balance in not dumping so much exposition, but still having talky scenes that were interesting. They were almost staged like a play. With only two actors in the scene, like Ian and Young Ian, you almost don't need to cut from the one to the other. I didn't mind Roger's voice overs either; Claire certainly did it enough, and you have Roger running around by himself. 

Probably would have only stayed 90 seconds with Laoghaire though after apologizing though. I have no idea they got married. Entitled much?

I'm not clear why Roger would be in the 'wrong' time. If he's thinking of Jemmie he should be where Jemmy is. That's really the only rule that seems consistent. That doesn't explain how Cameron being from a different starting point traveled back further. 

11 hours ago, taanja said:

However, that time travel crap seems to have no rhyme nor reason!

I mean, I know it's plot, but other than the 'you go to where you're thinking,' the 200 year jump seemed to be the only constant. Or killing someone to activate it. So if you think real hard, I guess you go back farther? It just drives me up the wall that literally no one ever has a some conversation about it just out of curiosity. I would think Bree alone would be fascinated in how it worked. I never expected hard and fast rules. I guess at least Roger was thinking about it this time. 

Totally said Gelis when Roger said 1746 though!

I would have just said to Jenny that Ian was just too far advanced based on her experience as a doctor in the 1960s and leave it at that. No need to say you know there's a cure. 

It is kind of ridiculous that Claire is going back to the colonies, like everyone else said. In the letter, Lord John said he sent out a lot of letters, guessing where they might be. So who knows how long it took for Claire to get that one? It might have made more sense if Claire got the letter *before* they left for Scotland, and her and Young Ian just stayed there. I don't know what time of year it is, maybe fall, with the apples, but the journey across the Atlantic could be really hard with the weather. 

[DoctorAtomic]

7 hours ago, Maisiesmom said:

(As an aside and a bit off topic, there was a show called Brittania (I think it was on Epix) and Laura Donnely played a bounty type hunter.

Maybe Claire telling everyone where she comes from makes this the Season of the Witch. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

13 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Probably would have only stayed 90 seconds with Laoghaire though after apologizing though. I have no idea they got married. Entitled much?

He mostly married her to be a stepfather to Marsali and Joanie, having lost the chance to parent his child with Claire.

Edited November 26 by Noneofyourbusiness

[taanja]

21 hours ago, Maisiesmom said:

 (As an aside and a bit off topic, there was a show called Brittania (I think it was on Epix) and Laura Donnely played a bounty type hunter. She was really good. And, the actor who played the Compte was in it too. He looked quite different without the silly white wig.) Anyway, glad the show is back!

Yes! I knew I wasn't crazy!

Brittania! What a cray-cray show! and yes! Laura Donnely was in it. Also some fantasy show on HBO -- The Nevers? maybe?

Laura Donnely has been a busy little beaver! Too busy to return to Outlander.

[tennisgurl]

Its great to see this show again, I have been especially looking forward to it lately as I just got back from a trip to Scotland a few weeks ago! We got to see a few Outlander shooting locations in the Highlands and honestly, its even better in person. So gorgeous. 

I wish we could have stayed in Scotland longer, hopefully we at least cut back to Jaimie sometimes. Add me to the chorus confused as to Claire running back to America to cure an injury that has probably either killed this poor kid by now or will be dead by the time she makes the month or so long crossing. I know that Claire's doctor instinct is strong, but come on Claire, its not like you can get on a quick plane anymore. 

New Jenny is alright, mostly I loved seeing Ian again, what a lovely man. 

Good to know that Laoghaire is just as much of a peach as ever, the years have clearly not made her any less of a petty, vindictive mean girl. Hopefully this is the last we see of her, its a miracle that she has seemingly raised so many nice kids, although some of them being away from her certainly has helped. 

Oh snap, my face and Rogers pretty much matched when Gellis opened the door! I should have guessed, given when Roger was sent back, but I was still shocked when she opened the door. Roger even further in the past should be interesting, I do enjoy when the show leans into the time travel stuff, I don't care that the rules are never explained. 

[Cdh20]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its great to see this show again, I have been especially looking forward to it lately as I just got back from a trip to Scotland a few weeks ago! We got to see a few Outlander shooting locations in the Highlands and honestly, its even better in person. So gorgeous. 

I wish we could have stayed in Scotland longer, hopefully we at least cut back to Jaimie sometimes. Add me to the chorus confused as to Claire running back to America to cure an injury that has probably either killed this poor kid by now or will be dead by the time she makes the month or so long crossing. I know that Claire's doctor instinct is strong, but come on Claire, its not like you can get on a quick plane anymore. 

New Jenny is alright, mostly I loved seeing Ian again, what a lovely man. 

Good to know that Laoghaire is just as much of a peach as ever, the years have clearly not made her any less of a petty, vindictive mean girl. Hopefully this is the last we see of her, its a miracle that she has seemingly raised so many nice kids, although some of them being away from her certainly has helped. 

Oh snap, my face and Rogers pretty much matched when Gellis opened the door! I should have guessed, given when Roger was sent back, but I was still shocked when she opened the door. Roger even further in the past should be interesting, I do enjoy when the show leans into the time travel stuff, I don't care that the rules are never explained. 

I agree, Having gone to Scotland myself seeing Lallybroch on screen is extra sweet after seeing it in real life! 

[Quickbeam]

I speak a little Irish and I liked the scene where Joanie called Jamie “father” in what I suss to be Scot’s Gaelic. It was just a moment but sweet.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 11/26/2024 at 11:55 AM, taanja said:

Brittania! What a cray-cray show! and yes! Laura Donnely was in it. Also some fantasy show on HBO -- The Nevers? maybe?

Yes, The Nevers. About people developing superpowers in Victorian London (it's about a lot more than that, but I don't want to spoil). Which is excellent and everyone should check out even though it was cut short. Laura played the lead character, Amalia True (although (heavy spoilers)

Spoiler

she's really Zephyr Alexis Navine (Claudia Black), a time travelling dead soldier from the 22nd century, possessing the body of Amalia True after the real Amalia True drowned herself

).

On 11/26/2024 at 2:59 PM, tennisgurl said:

Good to know that Laoghaire is just as much of a peach as ever, the years have clearly not made her any less of a petty, vindictive mean girl. Hopefully this is the last we see of her, its a miracle that she has seemingly raised so many nice kids, although some of them being away from her certainly has helped.

Well, Laoghaire only raised two kids. Marsali and Joanie. Were you under the impression she had more?

Edited Friday at 06:00 PM by Noneofyourbusiness

[Anothermi]

I just did a second watch. 

Although Laoghaire  has NEVER been a person capable of empathy, the scene where Jamie recognizes that he has amends to make to her jumped out at me.

I was actually moved when she finally saw what really motivated him to do the things that she took to be proofs of his deep love for her.  Yes, she was a by-the-book: if-he-does-X-it can only mean-Y. It was what she wanted to believe and she was unable to understand that it could be anything but what she wanted it to be.  

Of course, that was what made her sooo unlikable right up to this point.  But to hear her lay out those things Jamie did that caused her to believe she had found someone who loved her for herself:

He took a beating meant for HER;

He kissed her again after that;

And then she finally acknowledged that she knows he actually loved Claire before the 1st time he kissed her (Laoghaire). That he never really looked at her or saw her as a person because he could only think of and see Claire.  That was heart breaking.

Why? Because that is what we all want from a relationship. What she wanted emotionally was completely relatable. She was just another human who found they'd hung their hopes on the wrong person. 

I'm willing to acknowledge that all she wanted were those very human hopes for a relationship. And I felt for her.  

It was a real surprise to hear her be that vulnerable. 

She is not a likeable woman, so it has been impossible to feel for her until this scene. But it doesn't mean Jamie didn't do her wrong, and he, at least, realized it and was trying to give her that level of respect - of acknowledging  his part in her pain.

Not that Laoghaire was able to accept it!

At least Joanie gave him a way to make reparations in a way he could feel he had done what he could— to right his wrongs to Laoghaire. (and she didn't have to let go of her spite towards him - which he wasn't actually looking for anyway. He didn't need her forgiveness.) 

I'm glad they included that scene. 

 

[Cdh20]

On 11/29/2024 at 7:48 PM, Anothermi said:

I just did a second watch. 

Although Laoghaire  has NEVER been a person capable of empathy, the scene where Jamie recognizes that he has amends to make to her jumped out at me.

I was actually moved when she finally saw what really motivated him to do the things that she took to be proofs of his deep love for her.  Yes, she was a by-the-book: if-he-does-X-it can only mean-Y. It was what she wanted to believe and she was unable to understand that it could be anything but what she wanted it to be.  

Of course, that was what made her sooo unlikable right up to this point.  But to hear her lay out those things Jamie did that caused her to believe she had found someone who loved her for herself:

He took a beating meant for HER;

He kissed her again after that;

And then she finally acknowledged that she knows he actually loved Claire before the 1st time he kissed her (Laoghaire). That he never really looked at her or saw her as a person because he could only think of and see Claire.  That was heart breaking.

Why? Because that is what we all want from a relationship. What she wanted emotionally was completely relatable. She was just another human who found they'd hung their hopes on the wrong person. 

I'm willing to acknowledge that all she wanted were those very human hopes for a relationship. And I felt for her.  

It was a real surprise to hear her be that vulnerable. 

She is not a likeable woman, so it has been impossible to feel for her until this scene. But it doesn't mean Jamie didn't do her wrong, and he, at least, realized it and was trying to give her that level of respect - of acknowledging  his part in her pain.

Not that Laoghaire was able to accept it!

At least Joanie gave him a way to make reparations in a way he could feel he had done what he could— to right his wrongs to Laoghaire. (and she didn't have to let go of her spite towards him - which he wasn't actually looking for anyway. He didn't need her forgiveness.) 

I'm glad they included that scene. 

 

I have always felt bad for Laoghaire even though she is immature, & a bit crazy. We all know what it is to fall in love with Jamie Fraser & all he sees is Claire! 

[taanja]

22 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I have always felt bad for Laoghaire even though she is immature, & a bit crazy. We all know what it is to fall in love with Jamie Fraser & all he sees is Claire! 

I've never had the hate-on for Leery as others have. It takes two to tango and saint Jamie is NOT perfect. Leery fell in love with the idea of Jamie Fraser when she was a young impressionable girl. She carried that love for years -- thinking that Jamie felt the same way. I am sure it was a bitter pill to swallow when she learned he used her and did NOT love her. 

Still, it was nice to see Jamie acknowledge he was not the perfect husband to Leery and to at least attempt apologize.

(as an aside -- I did like Claire saying something like -- some things just can not be mended.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 12/1/2024 at 1:24 PM, Cdh20 said:

I have always felt bad for Laoghaire even though she is immature, & a bit crazy.

Yeah, setting Claire up to be a witch and then burned at the stake. Pfft. just being a teenager. NOT. She's a heinous little twit. Jamie saved her from a whipping. She took that as a demonstration of his interest in her. It was not.

3 hours ago, taanja said:

I've never had the hate-on for Leery as others have. It takes two to tango and saint Jamie is NOT perfect. Leery fell in love with the idea of Jamie Fraser when she was a young impressionable girl. She carried that love for years -- thinking that Jamie felt the same way. I am sure it was a bitter pill to swallow when she learned he used her and did NOT love her. 

See my comment above. Even after his whipping, when they were listening to the singer, Jamie couldn't be bothered to give her his time; he spent it all talking to CLAIRE. Yes, he answered her questions and told her he barely remembered her when she first came to the castle.

Yeah, yeah, he kissed her later. So what. He didn't promise himself to her. She created the fantasy in her head. And I'm not giving her a pass for setting her up to be killed. And then not even learning her lesson from that years later, when she went sniffing his jacket or shirt or whatever 20 years later.

Psychotic Hosebeast is what she and always has been.

[taanja]

39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yeah, setting Claire up to be a witch and then burned at the stake. Pfft. just being a teenager. NOT. She's a heinous little twit. Jamie saved her from a whipping. She took that as a demonstration of his interest in her. It was not.

See my comment above. Even after his whipping, when they were listening to the singer, Jamie couldn't be bothered to give her his time; he spent it all talking to CLAIRE. Yes, he answered her questions and told her he barely remembered her when she first came to the castle.

Yeah, yeah, he kissed her later. So what. He didn't promise himself to her. She created the fantasy in her head. And I'm not giving her a pass for setting her up to be killed. And then not even learning her lesson from that years later, when she went sniffing his jacket or shirt or whatever 20 years later.

Psychotic Hosebeast is what she and always has been.

Oh my! I do not have such strong feelings for any fictional characters. LOL

In their time (1740's) a kiss is practically an engagement (promise) to be married. So when Jamie kissed Leery AFTER taking a whipping for her -- that was in Leery's opinion - a declaration of love.

She was what? 16? Young. Foolish. Hotheaded. Immature brain. I don't think she thought of the consequences when she accused Claire of being a witch. or maybe she did? She was from that time - she wanted Claire out of the way (and in her mind Jamie wanted that as well -- she was helping Jamie! yeah! helping him so he could marry her (Leery!) See it made sense in that young girl's mind. 

and years later -- when Claire was 'dead' and Jamie asked Leery to marry him -- she took it to mean he really did love her! All her dreams were finally coming true! Jamie was finally free of that witch Claire and could love Leery as he always wanted but was unable to do. <<<<< At least that's what Leery told herself.

Unrequited love. She carried the torch for Jamie for years telling herself that he felt the same. And she finally - finally - saw/realized the truth. That actually was a great scene watching her figure it out.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

She was what? 16? Young. Foolish. Hotheaded. Immature brain. I don't think she thought of the consequences when she accused Claire of being a witch. or maybe she did? She was from that time - she wanted Claire out of the way (and in her mind Jamie wanted that as well -- she was helping Jamie! yeah! helping him so he could marry her (Leery!) See it made sense in that young girl's mind.

And didn't she actually think at least at some point that Claire was a witch and had put a spell on Jamie?

4 hours ago, taanja said:

In their time (1740's) a kiss is practically an engagement (promise) to be married.

Really? Do you have a source for that?

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

In their time (1740's) a kiss is practically an engagement (promise) to be married

By that logic, Hosebeast promised herself to the boy she was caught canoodling which led to her whipping. The one Jamie took for her.