S04.E08-E09: A Very Arondekar Christmas Parts 1&2

[Skooma]

35 minutes ago, Badsamaritan said:

While I did enjoy last night's episode, it also made me sad for Utkarsh. I am one of those that absolutely wants Jay to be able to see the ghosts too, ...

It Jay could see the ghosts all the time the show would be cancelled since the whole point would be gone and the main cornerstone to most of the comedy.  And THAT would make Utkarsh very VERY sad.

It was fine the character of Jay got a brief glimpse to put faces to names but that is more than enough.  Anything else in that regard completely ruins the show.  And a big time hit show that every actor dreams of so please do no make Utkarsh sad by having the show cancelled because Jay can suddenly see ghosts all the time.

[Badsamaritan]

18 minutes ago, Skooma said:

It Jay could see the ghosts all the time the show would be cancelled since the whole point would be gone and the main cornerstone to most of the comedy.  And THAT would make Utkarsh very VERY sad.

It was fine the character of Jay got a brief glimpse to put faces to names but that is more than enough.  Anything else in that regard completely ruins the show.  And a big time hit show that every actor dreams of so please do no make Utkarsh sad by having the show cancelled because Jay can suddenly see ghosts all the time.

I'm not sure why the show would be canceled. It's about a woman who can see ghosts, they've never said no one else could ever see them. And Jay getting the short end of the stick is NOT the cornerstone of the show for me, it's the relationships. And Jay's glimpse may have been enough for you, but it wasn't for me and I'm allowed to feel that way. 

[Chit Chat]

10 hours ago, kav said:

We’re going to find out something really, really important” about Sas, and that “Flower’s view of him completely changes with this information.”"

I was actually a little irritated that Flower made such a big deal about Sass being a virgin.  I guess she just feels sorry for him, but that secret was supposed to go no further than Thor, and he broke that trust.  Not cool, Thor!   

Flower needed to mind her own business and not try to force someone on Sass just for the sake of sex.  She was out of line.  

[chaifan]

Grrrr.  I'm so mad at myself.  I forgot this was an hour long episode and missed the first 10 minutes.  Luckily, one of the clips posted earlier had scene where it all happened.  (And this is why I don't watch trailers - I would have been pissed if I knew that was coming.)  

As everyone has said, a great episode.  Sam as Nancy was hilarious, especially the guac.  One quibble - they don't need to speed out of the property to expel the ghosts.  Just walking off the property would have the same effect.  But that wouldn't have ruined Jay's mom's nice new car.

Did anyone else notice "Pete" pushing up his glasses, even though Jay doesn't wear glasses?  I thought that was a nice touch.

I'm assuming Jay had planned on naming the restaurant after his dad all along, right?  They didn't just get that sign printed up in response to the conversation Jay sat in on, did they?  Either way, it was sweet.

12 hours ago, PaulE said:

I was a bit surprised that the exorcism included a trinitarian invocation in Latin, as well as Thor and Flower talking about the Virgin Mary--up to now, the writers have wisely stayed away from religion, so hopefully no viewers will be offended, though in today's thin-skinned climate there's no telling.

My fanwanking of this is that every religion has its exorcism rituals, so it's not like Catholics have cornered the market on this, it's just that the Christian/Catholic one is most readily known/available to characters so that's their go-to.  

I love that Jay got to meet all the ghosts.  Love that he hugged Thor, and that Thor hugged him.  Yes, it would be great if Jay could see them from time to time, but the show would change if he could see them permanently, and there's only so many times you can electrocute someone for plot purposes.

And I like what someone above suggested that Sass could pull Pete into one of his dreams so Pete and Jay could meet face to face (so to speak).  

 

[Chit Chat]

10 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Yes, it would be great if Jay could see them from time to time, but the show would change if he could see them permanently, and there's only so many times you can electrocute someone for plot purposes.

It would change the show, but with good writers, it doesn't have to be a bad thing!  Rose uses her ability to her advantage many times at the expense of Jay.  I don't find that very funny.  Level the playing field!  

11 minutes ago, chaifan said:

One quibble - they don't need to speed out of the property to expel the ghosts. 

That's true, but I think Rose was having a hard time controlling Nancy so that was the quickest way to expel her.  

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Neptune said:

 

Utkarsh (Jay) kind of threw Richie (Pete) and himself under the bus for Jay's too understated (under-projected?) impersonation/personification of Pete, but isn't that really up to this episode's director, Richie Keen???
 

12 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I honestly wasn't sure if that was her or if she was lip-syncing to Betsy speaking at first.

12 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

I thought she was lip-syncing.  

Around the 2 minute mark in the video above, Rose explains the process of how she "became" Basement Ghost Nancy. It required much focus and work; they earned any and all accolades.

 

 

10 hours ago, Neptune said:

 

 Rose McIver is so wonderfully insightful and articulate. 
She's also the same age as my daughter who has a baby the same age as Rose's and who also works too many hours, so based on that as well as my own similar experiences, I recognized how she was almost half asleep (literally holding her head up by resting it on her hand at times, LOL) and yet she was fantastic to listen to. Can we have her on news shows instead of some other talking head, LOL?

Edited Friday at 03:50 PM by shapeshifter

[PaulE]

2 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

12 hours ago, kav said:

We’re going to find out something really, really important” about Sas, and that “Flower’s view of him completely changes with this information.”"

I was actually a little irritated that Flower made such a big deal about Sass being a virgin.  I guess she just feels sorry for him, but that secret was supposed to go no further than Thor, and he broke that trust.  Not cool, Thor!   

Flower needed to mind her own business and not try to force someone on Sass just for the sake of sex.  She was out of line.  

I feel the same way.  So Sass was a virgin--big deal!  I suppose it might be considered a bit unusual, though I think Sass was only around 20 when he died, so it could easily be assumed that he just hadn't gotten around to it yet.  I don't know when Native Americans tended to marry or how they thought about  sex outside of marriage, and although they seem not to have been as uptight about sex as Europeans, virginity at that age might not have been all that unusual.  We live in such a sex-obsessed culture that it's supposed to be shocking that a young man hasn't had sex yet.  I can understand Flower's reaction because she lived in the era of "free love" (remember, she and Thor even talked about the Virgin Mary's restraint!), but Sheila Carrasco went a bit overboard by referring to Sass's virginity as something "really, really important."  Nah, I think he's got more interesting aspects to his character than that.

 

Edited Friday at 04:32 PM by PaulE

[PaulE]

11 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I feel bad for Sam Jay has a loving family and she doesn't.

I did, too.  And that was brought home by the fact that Jay's mother had problems with Sam only because she tried too hard.  That showed how desperately Sam wanted to connect and how inept she was at being able to do so because of her own family background.  Many of us have been very critical of Sam in the past because of the way she treats Jay and allows herself to be taken advantage of by the ghosts, but I have to admit I developed a lot more sympathy for her after this episode and it did my heart good to see how happy she was when her mother-in-law added her to the family thread.

5 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

I am one of those that absolutely wants Jay to be able to see the ghosts too, and the scenes last night where he got to interact with the other actors just made me keep thinking about how his character doesn't get to have the same emotional beats and growth as everyone else in the cast. I'm sure the paycheck is great but from an acting POV, he only really gets to stretch himself during these 'very special episodes' and I wonder how fulfilling (outside of the paycheck of course) this role actually is for him.

Well, from an actor's standpoint, he might actually find the role fulfilling precisely because it's such a challenge.  The other members of the cast have commented in interviews on what a difficult job Utkarsh has because he has to react to situations while pretending he can see no one else but Rose, even though the rest of the cast is standing right there.  And he does have a major role in the show--I think his character is more developed than the the husband in the British version.

 

Edited Friday at 06:37 PM by PaulE

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

While I did enjoy last night's episode, it also made me sad for Utkarsh. I am one of those that absolutely wants Jay to be able to see the ghosts too, and the scenes last night where he got to interact with the other actors just made me keep thinking about how his character doesn't get to have the same emotional beats and growth as everyone else in the cast. I'm sure the paycheck is great but from an acting POV, he only really gets to stretch himself during these 'very special episodes' and I wonder how fulfilling (outside of the paycheck of course) this role actually is for him.

On the contrary, I think Utkarsh has the most challenging role on the show, acting-wise. He has to pretend he cannot see or hear all the people around him. He's doing a lot more acting than they are, actually. (e.t.a. or, what @PaulE just said.)

This was certainly a very special episode. They can't all be winners but boy, when they hit one out of the park they really nail it. I really could not tell whether Rose McIver was doing an incredibly impressive imitation of Nancy or if Betsy Sodaro was just dubbing in her own voice. Wow. Rose really is talented.

And Utkarsh is no slouch, even though Pete is a more subtle impression, the little touches he added like adjusting his non-existent glasses were great. And zombie Jay? Hilarious.

Love, loved, loved the quick flashback to Sass and Thor meeting for the first time, and I really want to find out how Sass died. He's the only one left whose death is yet to be explained.

It's a minor nitpick but I'm not sure how Jay and Sam could be shocked by the water heater. It's clearly a gas heater, I'm not sure why electricity would be hooked up to it. It's older than dirt, it can't possibly be an electric water heater.

Also, I've heard Jay mention Chamba before, but to be honest I always thought that was his father's name. Shows what I know about Indian names.

It really was kind of mean of her to add Eric to the "core four" text group. Eric is just Bela's boyfriend, and they have already established there is a larger text group for extended family and friends. The "core four" were just supposed to be the parents and the two kids. I don't blame Sam for feeling snubbed.

[possibilities]

My desire to have Jay able to see and hear the ghosts is not about whether I think it's easier or harder fron the acting perspective. It's about how I find the writing around his inability to do it is meanspiritied and hackneyed.

They have over and over again had Sam take advantage of Jay being out of the loop, they have the same plot over and over again where he's talking to one of them and they aren't there, or she has to repeat things to him and leaves out important information and it's supposed to be funny how they are all deceiving him. They keep hitting the same notes in the plotlines, and I think it's lazy and getting repetitive to the point of boring. 

I think that Jay able to interact with them directly opens up MORE stories and dimensions and would make the show better.

I don't expect them to do it, because shows with good ratings rarely mess with their forumla, even if it makes the show stagnant and entrenches its flaws.

[shura]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Grrrr.  I'm so mad at myself.  I forgot this was an hour long episode and missed the first 10 minutes.

I’ll beat that.  For whatever reason our CBS affiliate had the sound messed up for the first half of the episode.  The music sounded fine, the commercials too, but the dialogue was totally muffled.  It was unwatchable.  So I had to wait till today to stream it.  So happy it was worth it, this was truly one of the best episodes yet.

From the writing perspective, I especially appreciated how Pete’s ghost power made it impossible to get him out of Jay’s body the usual cross-the-boundary way, so they had to do an exorcism, which led to exorcising the wrong guy out, which made it possible for Jay to interact with the ghosts and also observe his parents without them knowing.  Basically, Pete’s power was the reason for everything that happened in this episode (except for Sass’s B plot).  It’s almost like the writers knew they were going to do all of this when they set up Pete’s power last season.  Just fantastic.  Having Bela already know about ghosts also allowed to use her seamlessly here.

I forgot, is it supposed to be an Indian restaurant?  People might assume that it’s Indian based on the name, so those who are not looking for Indian cuisine might not give it a try.

So, Mark can afford to vacation in Fiji, eh?  Wonder how much money he saved on using a 3/4-inch pipe instead of one-inch…

Zombie Jay made me think of the “zombie aren’t real…” line from a basement ghost in the pilot.  Shows what you know, Stuart!

[chaifan]

I've been thinking of the debate of whether Jay should be able to permanently see the ghosts, or if that would drastically alter the premise of the show...  here's a middle ground that I'd actually love to see:

Unbeknownst to us for now, Jay has a sort of a hold-over effect from the possession via electrocution.  If he gets even a small shock, he sees ghosts temporarily - like maybe just 30 seconds or so.  Jay finds this out accidentally, but then goes around shuffling his feet on carpet or whatever to give himself small static shocks.  Maybe it's a sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, so it doesn't change things up too much.

What this would do is mess with the ghosts, because they won't know 100% whether or not Jay can see them at any point.  And Jay could mess with them on that.  And, it would allow the ghosts the ability to rat Sam out, so she'll stop lying to Jay about ghost stuff.  

Also, what I'd love to see at some point is that Mark has known all along about the ghosts.  He can't see them, like Sam does, but his son told him, he believes his son (maybe he saw ghosts as a child, too), and has seen Sam talking to them several times but he never lets on. (They could make a whole montage out of that.)

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

On the contrary, I think Utkarsh has the most challenging role on the show, acting-wise. He has to pretend he cannot see or hear all the people around him. He's doing a lot more acting than they are, actually. (e.t.a. or, what @PaulE just said.)

This was certainly a very special episode. They can't all be winners but boy, when they hit one out of the park they really nail it. I really could not tell whether Rose McIver was doing an incredibly impressive imitation of Nancy or if Betsy Sodaro was just dubbing in her own voice. Wow. Rose really is talented.

And Utkarsh is no slouch, even though Pete is a more subtle impression, the little touches he added like adjusting his non-existent glasses were great. And zombie Jay? Hilarious.

Love, loved, loved the quick flashback to Sass and Thor meeting for the first time, and I really want to find out how Sass died. He's the only one left whose death is yet to be explained.

It's a minor nitpick but I'm not sure how Jay and Sam could be shocked by the water heater. It's clearly a gas heater, I'm not sure why electricity would be hooked up to it. It's older than dirt, it can't possibly be an electric water heater.

Also, I've heard Jay mention Chamba before, but to be honest I always thought that was his father's name. Shows what I know about Indian names.

It really was kind of mean of her to add Eric to the "core four" text group. Eric is just Bela's boyfriend, and they have already established there is a larger text group for extended family and friends. The "core four" were just supposed to be the parents and the two kids. I don't blame Sam for feeling snubbed.

Sam is very insecure and she wouldn't try so hard if she knew Jay's family loved her. Eric shouldn't have been added to the family chat until they were married.

[Lugal]

I really loved this one.  This show is best when they balance the heart and humor.  Special shoutout to Rose doing Nancy flawlessly.

3 hours ago, PaulE said:

I did, too.  And that was brought home by the fact that Jay's mother had problems with Sam only because she tried too hard.  That showed how desperately Sam wanted to connect and how inept she was at being able to do so because of her own family background.  Many of us have been very critical of Sam in the past because of the way she treats Jay and allows herself to be taken advantage of by the ghosts, but I have to admit I developed a lot more sympathy for her after this episode and it did my heart good to see how happy she was when her mother-in-law added her to the family thread.

I also got the impression when Jay's actually hanging out with the ghosts they seemed pretty warm to him and I can believe that he could fit in better with them that Sam does, so I can see why she's insecure.

Sass, Thor, and Flower's story was well done too and I like we got to see the moment when Thor and Sass met.  I also like that Thor remembers Lenape, but speaks English because he's "more good" at it.  Makes you wonder how his Lenape was.  As for Flower pushing for the secret, I assume she thought it was something like robbing a bank and was thrown when she discovered that Sass died a virgin.

As for the debate about Jay seeing ghosts again, I think to make it permanent would change the dynamics of the show, but having one off episodes where Jay can see them for whatever reason would be fun.

[SoMuchTV]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Rose changed character every episode of iZombie-- if you liked seeing her as nancy, check that show out! 

 

15 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

"I hate zombies!"  HAH!

Thank you!  That went completely over my head when I was watching!

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, chaifan said:

Did anyone else notice "Pete" pushing up his glasses, even though Jay doesn't wear glasses?  I thought that was a nice touch.

Yeah, that was great.  For the most part I did not feel any Pete coming from Utkarsh, but with that little move it finally worked.

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's a minor nitpick but I'm not sure how Jay and Sam could be shocked by the water heater. It's clearly a gas heater, I'm not sure why electricity would be hooked up to it. It's older than dirt, it can't possibly be an electric water heater.

Yeah, that was ridiculous and bugged me so much I had to go back and re-watch the next couple of minutes when I realized I hadn't processed them I was so distracted by my irritation.

I don't know why Flower was surprised Sass is a virgin.  We've known all along he was lying about having sex while he was alive, so is it just that she assumed he'd had sex with the car ghost, or with some other ghost(s) during the time he's been dead?  That must be it, since her reaction didn't kick up a notch until Thor clarified he's a 500-year-old virgin.

That was the perfect way to show us Carol again, that cut to "You want me to do what?"  LOL.

There should be a "core four" group separate from the one that includes Sam, and it makes no sense Eric would be added to the one with four rather than the one with five.  That was purely for this plot, and annoyed me.  But the way Champa added Sam was funny, so I'll go with it in the end.

As someone else mentioned on the first page, Pete took a lot longer to start disappearing on his first trip.  Based on that, he wouldn't have started disappearing the next morning, and he wouldn't be unable to fly to Australia.  They should have thrown in a line that each time he uses his power, it lasts for a shorter time.  That would force him to use it sparingly, and knock down his obnoxiousness about it.

I was really glad when it was confirmed Jay's ability to see the ghosts would be temporary - since it would alter way too much of the fundamental dynamics, and humor, of the show if it was permanent - and happy upon seeing the episode to see the second prong of my wish came true, too, that Pete wouldn't get to be seen by him.  I had no idea the crazy way they'd go about that, though; I just figured it would happen while Pete was using his power to be off the property, and Pete would come back just after Jay's ghost-seeing ability returned and ask "So, did I miss anything?"

The double possession and exorcism gone wrong was totally out there, and I enjoyed every ridiculous minute of it.  I didn't think Rose was noteworthy when she played the possession by Thor, but, man, did she nail Nancy!

I love Bela's reaction to walking in on Jay tied to the bed.  First she's apologetic that she should have knocked and about to leave, but then she turns back because she's had the "Really, guys, it's the middle of the afternoon and mom and dad are downstairs" part of the reaction. 

This was just plain fun, but also had the touching moments of Pete getting to hug Laura and Jay being able to express himself to his dad.

Edited Friday at 10:10 PM by Bastet

[Daff]

6 hours ago, Skooma said:

It Jay could see the ghosts all the time the show would be cancelled since the whole point would be gone and the main cornerstone to most of the comedy.  And THAT would make Utkarsh very VERY sad.

It was fine the character of Jay got a brief glimpse to put faces to names but that is more than enough.  Anything else in that regard completely ruins the show.  And a big time hit show that every actor dreams of so please do no make Utkarsh sad by having the show cancelled because Jay can suddenly see ghosts all the time.

But wait, consider the possibilities. It would still be only Jay and Sam vs. the rest of the population- think of how the ghosts would “work” the situation, playing Sam against Jay, vice versa.

[Daff]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's a minor nitpick but I'm not sure how Jay and Sam could be shocked by the water heater. It's clearly a gas heater, I'm not sure why electricity would be hooked up to it. It's older than dirt, it can't possibly be an electric water heater.

I said that the episode was so good, I forgave the writers for that (above). I actually caught it just as Jay was thrown across the basement. It doesn’t even need transformed electricity (like your LP gas grill-AA battery, or doorbell) because it has a pilot light. They needn’t have had the issue at all if they didn’t have Nancy’s line reference to a gas-related part-because I loved her quip about having to dumb down her instructions.

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's clearly a gas heater, I'm not sure why electricity would be hooked up to it. It's older than dirt, it can't possibly be an electric water heater.

From my Google search:  "Gas heaters with an electric ignition control are fascinating because they are genuine gas heaters. They use gas to heat the water. However, they rely on electricity to ignite the heating system." Maybe that's what it is.  

If Jay could see ghosts all of the time, think about how much they would bug him to cook certain foods!!  He'd have to lay down the law in regard to that!  It could be fun though for him because he could interact with them while cooking (kind of like a cooking lesson.)  Some of them might like that.  Oh well.  It was a temporary ability, so at least he got to meet them.  As another poster said, maybe it'll come back to him from time-to-time.  That would be fun. 

14 hours ago, KarenX said:

I think Sass must have been injured or killed hunting that moose?

I will take my reply to the Spoilers & Speculation thread.  

[Daff]

4 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

However, they rely on electricity to ignite the heating system." Maybe that's what it is. 

Still electricity through a transformer (AA battery strength). Gas and electric don’t play well together.

Too great a risk for catastrophic explosion.

Edited Friday at 08:45 PM by Daff

[Chit Chat]

5 minutes ago, Daff said:

Still electricity through a transformer (AA battery strength). Gas and electric don’t play well together.

Either way, Jay & Rose screwed up.  They should've looked it over to see if there was a need to either unplug something or turn the circuit breaker off.  It's the first rule of working on an appliance.  We check & recheck those things before we work on anything electrical.  Safety first!!

[Daff]

3 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Either way, Jay & Rose screwed up.  They should've looked it over to see if there was a need to either unplug something or turn the circuit breaker off.  It's the first rule of working on an appliance.  We check & recheck those things before we work on anything electrical.  Safety first!!

We’ve all agreed this is nitpick writer error. The only thing you need to turn off to service a gas water heater is…the gas supply.

[Chit Chat]

3 minutes ago, Daff said:

The only thing you need to turn off to service a gas water heater is…the gas supply.

I don't think they did that either!  Jay & Rose need to stay in their lane when it comes to repairing things they're unfamiliar with!  😜

[Bastet]

23 minutes ago, Daff said:

I loved her quip about having to dumb down her instructions.

"I'll explain it like I'm talking to a Stuart."

[Chit Chat]

It's funny that the basement ghosts refer to the hot water heater as a living thing.  One referred to it as "her."   They've grown quite attached to it!  

[tennisgurl]

I really loved this episode, such a great mix of heartwarming moments and hilarious ones. I definitely gasped when Sam and Jay were both knocked out, I was sure that Jay would be able to see the ghosts now, but this was so much funnier! I know that we all debate as to whether or not we want to have Jay see the ghosts, but no matter if they ever decide to let him see them or not, I love that they found such a fun way to let Jay see the ghosts for an episode! 

I first "met" Rose on Izombie, so while I am not surprised by how good she is at impressions, I am always so impressed. It really did seem like Nancy was just speaking over Rose as she played Sam as possessed by Nancy, it was that good of an impression. It was hilarious how much Jay's mom starting getting along with Sam as Nancy, poor Sam really just needs to learn to loosen up. I do feel really bad for her, her dad was mostly absent and her mom was extremely critical of her and generally not very nice, I can see why she is so high strung about things being perfect and why she's so desperate for Jay's family to like her. I am really glad that she was finally added to the family group chat, she's going to be freaking out about that for a LONG time. 

Speaking of Izombie, Sam saying how she hates zombies several times was pretty funny. I see you, show. 

It was so much fun getting to see Jay actually seeing the ghosts, and it was sweet how happy they all were to actually get to talk directly to him, especially Thor giving him a huge bear hug, even with the not so great smell. And yes, Trever really does refer to himself as T Money that often. 

It was cool seeing the first time Thor and Sass met, and learning that Thor learned Lenape and still knows it, even if he speaks English more good now. I always like getting into their dynamic, it was just them for several hundred years, that is a whole lot of history. 

Pete episodes with his family always get me, I readily admit to tearing up when he got to hug his daughter and when he got to give her the snow globe and tell her how proud he is of her. Then I got emotional again when Jay revealed that he's going to name his restaurant after his dad, I love how much familial closure we got all around. This was just a lovely Christmas special, I am so glad that we got two episodes to celebrate!  

[proserpina65]

5 hours ago, PaulE said:

I feel the same way.  So Sass was a virgin--big deal!  I suppose it might be considered a bit unusual, though I think Sass was only around 20 when he died, so it could easily be assumed that he just hadn't gotten around to it yet.  I don't know when Native Americans tended to marry or how they thought about  sex outside of marriage, and although they seem not to have been as uptight about sex as Europeans, virginity at that age might not have been all that unusual.  We live in such a sex-obsessed culture that it's supposed to be shocking that a young man hasn't had sex yet.  I can understand Flower's reaction because she lived in the era of "free love" (remember, she and Thor even talked about the Virgin Mary's restraint!), but Sheila Carrasco went a bit overboard by referring to Sass's virginity as something "really, really important."  Nah, I think he's got more interesting aspects to his character than that.

 

It would've been a big deal to someone like Flower, who spent all that time in the cult and commune having sex with lots of people.  I think her reaction was pretty true to her character and mindset.

 

[SG429]

5 hours ago, Daff said:

We’ve all agreed this is nitpick writer error. The only thing you need to turn off to service a gas water heater is…the gas supply.

Ridin' on this real dad energy, my nit is that the tank is far too small for a house that size.

Edited Saturday at 02:46 AM by SG429

[Chit Chat]

20 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

It would've been a big deal to someone like Flower, who spent all that time in the cult and commune having sex with lots of people.  I think her reaction was pretty true to her character and mindset.

Yeah, it's sad that she ended up being so shallow.  At least she's happy!  She needs to mind her own business on this one though.  Maybe the car ghost will come back some time and Sass can hook up with her.  

[shura]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

There should be a "core four" group separate from the one that includes Sam, and it makes no sense Eric would be added to the one with four rather than the one with five.  That was purely for this plot, and annoyed me.  But the way Champa added Sam was funny, so I'll go with it in the end.

I didn’t quite get what “Sam is so thirsty, and not just for chai” meant.  Was Champa just referring to Sam’s need to be liked?  The way Jay reacted with a shocked “really, Mom? On the family thread on Christmas?” sounded like it was something inappropriate that went over my head.

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It was so much fun getting to see Jay actually seeing the ghosts, and it was sweet how happy they all were to actually get to talk directly to him, especially Thor giving him a huge bear hug, even with the not so great smell. And yes, Trever really does refer to himself as T Money that often. 

I loved how they were saying goodbyes to him when he was getting ready to get electrocuted back into his body.  Hetty’s “I hope it will be a long time before we meet again (but do bring cocaine)” and then Trevor totally melts my heart with “We’ll be here, bro”.  Made me think about our discussion here a couple of weeks ago about whether they actually want to get sucked off and leave all this.

Little Pete is growing up!  “The people who killed grandma?” 😆  He really is adorable… little bastard.  Take it up with his parents.  Where is his father, btw?  I noticed that Laura’s screen name looked like LauraMartino[some number] on the post where she said they were moving to Australia.  Never took the guy’s last name?  Or just kept the screen name from before marriage?

[Chit Chat]

3 minutes ago, shura said:

Hetty’s “I hope it will be a long time before we meet again (but do bring cocaine)” and then Trevor totally melts my heart with “We’ll be here, bro”.  Made me think about our discussion here a couple of weeks ago about whether they actually want to get sucked off and leave all this.

Trevor might not have much hope of getting sucked off, seeing how long several of the ghosts have been there.  

Thanks to those who posted the info about Rose and how she prepared to be Nancy in this episode.  She sounded just like her!  I thought she lip synced all of that!  I am very impressed that it was all Rose!  

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, shura said:

I didn’t quite get what “Sam is so thirsty, and not just for chai” meant.  Was Champa just referring to Sam’s need to be liked?  The way Jay reacted with a shocked “really, Mom? On the family thread on Christmas?” sounded like it was something inappropriate that went over my head.

Yes, thirsty in that context means desperate for attention/validation.  Jay thought the thread still didn't include Sam, so his reaction was because he thought Champa was using the thread to talk shit about her behind her back, rather than the teasing welcome to the thread it actually was.

[PaulE]

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

It's funny that the basement ghosts refer to the hot water heater as a living thing.  One referred to it as "her."   They've grown quite attached to it!  

My parents' house had an old oil-burning furnace (by now most of these have been replaced by gas furnaces) and every year in the fall we had to get a technician from the oil company to clean out the chimney and get rid of the sludge that would sometimes collect during the summer and clog the fuel line.  I can remember watching him do his thing and muttering "Come on, baby!" when he was having difficulty getting it to start for one reason or another.  And he also referred to it sometimes as "she."  So, yeah, some people have a thing for furnaces and kind of relate to them as people.  Weird but cute.

[januaryman]

I'm glad I didn't know anything about the episode in advance - I wisely muted a preview. That was arguably the best episode to date. Rose did a brilliant Nancy - and I'm glad they don't overuse Nancy. Alas, Richie had to sit out most of the show but he got his time to shine at the end. I wonder how many people thought the show was over and missed the brief tag scene?

[Chit Chat]

26 minutes ago, PaulE said:

So, yeah, some people have a thing for furnaces and kind of relate to them as people. 

It seems that the basement ghosts have nothing else to do but watch the hot water heater!  It would be funny to see a time lapse of their day and their discussions about the water heater!  

[possibilities]

It's really something, thinking about Thor and Sass being best friends for 500 years with no one else to talk with. In a way, I'd expect to see more closeness between them, but maybe they also feel like they've shared all there is to share and it's a relief to have others to interact with, too.

I really would like to see more of what went on days gone by... or eras gone by.

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think that Jay able to interact with them directly opens up MORE stories and dimensions and would make the show better.

I understand your perspective but I must respectfully disagree. The show mines so much humor out of Jay being out of the loop, and completely oblivious to the crazy ghost goings-on around him, and Utkarsh is so good at it, that to lose that aspect of the show would be a real shame. 

I also don't think Jay is really made to look the fool, as you seem to imply. While it's true that Sam and the ghosts do take advantage of him, he also gets help from them sometimes and has genuine affection for them.

To me, changing the dynamic of the show to that extent would be like if Darrin suddenly became a witch too on Bewitched. One or two episodes where he suddenly has magic powers is fun. Having them all the time - well, that's just a completely different show.

I can foresee future circumstances where Jay gets to see or hear the ghosts. And I'm fine with that. This was a terrific episode. I don't want it all the time though. That ruins so much of the fun, IMO.

1 hour ago, shura said:

 Where is his father, btw?

I wondered that too. Laura got married at Woodstone. There was no mention of her husband. Maybe he's already getting things ready Down Under.

So - we finally know the meaning of the snow globe and the french fries in the opening title sequence.

[Chit Chat]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I also don't think Jay is really made to look the fool, as you seem to imply.

Sam has outright lied to him claiming that the ghosts said something they didn't.  I don't like that aspect of the dynamic between the ghosts, Sam & Jay.  She takes advantage of it at his expense time and time again.   

[kathyk2]

2 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Yeah, it's sad that she ended up being so shallow.  At least she's happy!  She needs to mind her own business on this one though.  Maybe the car ghost will come back some time and Sass can hook up with her.  

Flower isn't shallow she enjoys sex. She didn't shame Hetty when she lost the washing machine so she wouldn't shame Sass. I think Flower enjoys sex and she wanted that for that Sass as well.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Flower isn't shallow she enjoys sex. She didn't shame Hetty when she lost the washing machine so she wouldn't shame Sass. I think Flower enjoys sex and she wanted that for that Sass as well.

I think that's it, too. And I think she just assumed that he must've had sex at least once when he was alive or something - I think for her, the biggest part of that news that really blew her mind was the idea that he's been a virgin for five hundred years. That's a long time, no matter what one's stance on that topic would be. 

Also, in the first Christmas episode, Flower was surprised to learn that Isaac hadn't yet kissed Nigel - she flat out said, "Isaac, it's been months! I would've slept with him and his bass player by now!" to him. So there is some history of her being a bit judgy about others' experience with physical intimacy. 

3 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

It's funny that the basement ghosts refer to the hot water heater as a living thing.  One referred to it as "her."   They've grown quite attached to it!  

I loved them getting all emotional over the water heater. Given how much the show's made reference to the water heater over the course of the show's run thus far, I feel like it's slowly building up to something big eventually happening with it once and for all :p. 

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

It's really something, thinking about Thor and Sass being best friends for 500 years with no one else to talk with. In a way, I'd expect to see more closeness between them, but maybe they also feel like they've shared all there is to share and it's a relief to have others to interact with, too.

I really would like to see more of what went on days gone by... or eras gone by.

I want this, too. There's centuries' worth of pre-canon history to explore with all these ghosts, so I am all for more flashbacks to what those early years/centuries were like for them when they were all first meeting and getting to know each other and learning to live together and all that stuff. Lots of great story potential there. 

[Snow Apple]

I'm glad Carol told Sass that his first time should be with someone special. I'm sorry Flower didn't realize that. Sass seems like a romantic. I also didn't like how she made Thor believe couples can't have secrets.

Edited Saturday at 01:03 AM by Snow Apple

[Annber03]

Kind of wild when Carol's the one with the good, logical advice, huh :p? 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I can foresee future circumstances where Jay gets to see or hear the ghosts. And I'm fine with that. This was a terrific episode. I don't want it all the time though. That ruins so much of the fun, IMO.

Once a year would be the maximum frequency for Jay to see ghosts without harming the show's magic, IMO. 
I would like this: 
but…

6 hours ago, chaifan said:

Unbeknownst to us for now, Jay has a sort of a hold-over effect from the possession via electrocution.  If he gets even a small shock, he sees ghosts temporarily - like maybe just 30 seconds or so.  Jay finds this out accidentally, but then goes around shuffling his feet on carpet or whatever to give himself small static shocks.  Maybe it's a sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, so it doesn't change things up too much.

…but…in a normally 22 minute episode, it would have to be explained each time to new viewers, so I don't see a way to do it without being clunky. 

I'm satisfied that Jay has seen them all once, and gets to see Sass more often. 
I can imagine Jay wanting to find old photos or painted portraits of those ghosts who would have had them and put them up in the Woodstone.
Maybe there's a cave painting of stick figures of Sass or Thor — perhaps even done by Thor.   

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

Flower isn't shallow she enjoys sex.

I still think she's shallow.  Yay for her that she enjoys sex.  I didn't like how she made it her mission to try and get Sass laid.  Not her place, at all.  

[kathyk2]

30 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Kind of wild when Carol's the one with the good, logical advice, huh :p? 

This was the first where Carol and Pete acted like grandparents. Pete didn't understand modern technology and Carol acted like a mom instead of being horny.

[shura]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Also, in the first Christmas episode, Flower was surprised to learn that Isaac hadn't yet kissed Nigel - she flat out said, "Isaac, it's been months! I would've slept with him and his bass player by now!" to him. So there is some history of her being a bit judgy about others' experience with physical intimacy.

Oh, I’m not sure she is being judgmental.  I think she really is a live and let live kind of person. It’s just that, for her, it’s incomprehensible that someone does not sleep with “him and his bass player” every day.  She reacts to it like we would react to someone who said he doesn’t breathe air - “But how do you live?”  Maybe that’s why she made it her mission to get Sass laid.  You just can’t live (well, exist, as the case may be) without air.

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

It's really something, thinking about Thor and Sass being best friends for 500 years with no one else to talk with.

It’s a distinction without much difference, but it was less than 500 years with no one else to talk to.  Even in these difficult times we must be precise 😜.  Isaac showed up “only” about 260 years later, and Patience around 1700, so about 190 years after Sass died (but Patience is Patience, of course, so we are not going to count her, necessarily).

[kathyk2]

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

Sam has outright lied to him claiming that the ghosts said something they didn't.  I don't like that aspect of the dynamic between the ghosts, Sam & Jay.  She takes advantage of it at his expense time and time again.   

Jay lies to Sam every time he spends money without Sam's knowledge. The ghosts knew that goes to Sonic when he tells her he went to the gym. Jay bought an expensive action figure and new sneakers without telling her. I like Jay but he isn't perfect. 

[Chit Chat]

35 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Jay bought an expensive action figure and new sneakers without telling her.

But he can't use the ghosts to his advantage like she can.  I'm sure Sam knows or suspects (before the ghosts tell her) that he goes to Sonic whenever he's out, but let's him have his little secret.  

42 minutes ago, shura said:

 I think she really is a live and let live kind of person. It’s just that, for her, it’s incomprehensible that someone does not sleep with “him and his bass player” every day.  

I like Flower, but she's so ditzy being stoned all of the time.  To her, sleeping with everyone is the norm, so she can't see outside of that.  Didn't one of the ghosts one say that for male ghosts, they can have sex, but they don't finish?  It must be okay for them since Thor & Flower are hooking up, but if it's going to be a first-time thing for Sass, it might be a bit of a letdown.   I'm thinking too much about this.  Gah!!  😜

[Annber03]

We're having a really interesting conversation on another site about how a lot of Flower's attitude on this issue might be clouded by a) her time in the cult and what kinds of beliefs they had about things relating to sex, and b) the idea that she grew up in a time when men just naturaly always wanted sex while the women were supposed to be "pure". Notice how she was much more sympathetic to Hetty's issues with sex compared to her attituded about Sasappis. Or Isaac, as I noted earlier. 

There's other theories being bounced around as well, but yeah, something else to possibly chew on a bit. 

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

This was the first where Carol and Pete acted like grandparents. Pete didn't understand modern technology and Carol acted like a mom instead of being horny.

That's one reason I liked the "Pete driving really slow" joke, 'cause it works on two levels - the idea that Pete would be an overly cautious driver, 'cause, well, Pete, and the fact that, were Pete still alive, he'd be an elderly man now, and elderly drivers tend to drive more slowly. 

[PaulE]

3 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

That's one reason I liked the "Pete driving really slow" joke, 'cause it works on two levels - the idea that Pete would be an overly cautious driver, 'cause, well, Pete, and the fact that, were Pete still alive, he'd be an elderly man now, and elderly drivers tend to drive more slowly. 

Plus he wasn't used to all the technology--even starting the car was guesswork for him because he'd have been used to the old key-in-the-ignition routine.