S04.E01/E02: The End & The Beginning/A World Without

[scarynikki12]

Quote

 

Episode 1: Superman is locked in a brutal battle with Luthor's monster; Lois and the boys race against time to save General Lane.

Episode 2: Lana and Sarah join the fight against Luthor, who starts making moves in Smallville; Jordan and Jonathan butt heads over an important decision.

 

 

 

[Galileo908]

Huh, did I never see the forums for this show? Such a shame that I only found it now. It was a good show.

Of course we'd have to deal with the Death of Superman storyline.

These two eps were tense as hell. I bet that wasn't even Superman's heart Luthor crushed. If Jordan grabbed it and finding out it wasn't his would've been equally satisfying for Luthor.

Luthor meeting his end is gonna be so satisfying when it happens.

[scarynikki12]

I'd forgotten how goofy Doomsday looked. To be fair, I don't know if there's a way Doomsday could look anything but goofy in live action. Maybe Disney will one day let them lease Goofy and just have him play the character!

Go to hell, Dooms! Martha Kent made that suit! 

I really do like how Michael plays Lex Luthor but he'll always be Brenda Walsh's prom date to me. How much fun would it be if Mrs. Teasley was the key to defeating him?

Ooooh a flashback to Clark Telling Lois! And admitting he's a virgin, hee. Tyler does a good job with the endearing dorky of Clark and I'm going to miss that.

It's cute Lex thinks Lois isn't capable of kicking his ass all on her own. 

Snugglemuffin with the emotional support. Still the best.

Random but the first time I ever heard Lex yell "Miss Tessmacher!" I thought he was yelling "Miss Tess Macher!" and figured he was one of those guys who uses full names to make a point. It was a LONG time before I realized that was just her last name.

Lex, even if you'd only just come to town you're one of the most famous people on the planet so OF COURSE the twins know who you are.

"Kinda sounds like you're the problem." HAHAHAHAHA! I love Jon Kent.

OH MY GOD I LOVE LEX'S WIG!!! HE SHOULD WEAR THIS WIG ALL THE TIME AND THEN IT SHOULD HAVE ITS OWN SHOW!!!!

Maybe the loss of that AMAZING wig is the real reason Lex is pissy. Maybe Elizabeth will have the wig and he'll leave her and the rest of the world alone when he gets it back.

Lane was saved so is he going to enter Witness Protection?

Frog Boy, Otis, he's FROG BOY. 

Good thing the street's almost empty because we don't need the whole town learning the truth. 

Just kidding it looks like there's more people. Surely at least one or two figured it out just based on the twins but Lana seems to have prevented the rest. 

Nope we're not doing this Lois. All that would have happened if you'd done what Lex wanted is he would have won and continued to force you to do his bidding. Standing up to him was the right call.

If Lex doesn't want to become a celebrity CEO, who are we to argue? This is the first good thing he's done since he showed up let's not discourage him.

Frog Boy got in Lex's face and ::facepalm:: He's lucky Lex didn't laugh in his face. Jordan, you may have powers but Lex can still beat you.

Lex finally figured it all out. So did he figure it out before or after Frog Boy got in his face?

Well, Lois thinks it was the confrontation and I won't disagree.

Jon and Sarah are a much better pairing than Jordan and Sarah. I don't mean romantically as I'm still very much anti-sibling swapping but the characters are far more natural in their scenes.

I hope Jordan succeeds in spite of the OBVIOUS TRAP he was drawn into.

I was hoping Lex would take Jordan's hair to keep on theme of my theory he's searching for that AMAZING WIG but stomping on Clark's heart was brutal.

I agree with Lois they should stick together but it is nice to see Jon lose his temper even if for a moment.

I know Clark's going to come back but it would be wild if the final season had him in hologram mode only. I remember on the show Krypton there was a machine that created babies just from a bit of blood from each parent. Maybe a version of that machine exists and could build Clark a new heart? 

[baldryanr]

Someone watching the show for first time would think Lois and the boys weren't good friends with two people who have their own mechanical supersuits.  Call in backup!

This version of Lex is an absolute sadist, and he's smart enough to figure out Superman = Clark.  I know Lois thinks Jordan tipped him off, but come on, Clark vanishes without a trace at the exact same time as Superman?   Plus you know Lex would have been looking for him.

[cdnalor]

Shouldn't a Kryptonian's heart be as invulnerable as the rest of the body? Or at least more resistant to a human stomp.  I think maybe Lex gave Jordan a decoy.

[DanaK]

I really wish they didn’t continue with the Lex storyline for this last season. This version of Lex is a sadist and brutal and for me, it doesn’t fit this family show at all. The torture Lex inflicted on Doomsday last season to turn it into the current monster it is was too brutal for this show. I’m probably not going to enjoy this last season because of Lex and his methods

[thuganomics85]

Superman & Lois is back for a final season and officially shutting the door to the Arrowverse, more or less!

Guess I can't be too surprised that they are tackling their own variation of "The Death of Superman", because that's always going to be a popular tale in the comic book world.  I obviously suspect he/Clark will come back when it is all said and done, but I'm curious about him being in holo-form going forward. 

Safe money though is that the heart Lex destroyed wasn't actually Clark's real heart.  Have a feeling that there might be another reason why Lex actually wants it besides revenge.  Might have something to do with his apparently need to takeover Smallville in general.  He says it is to make Lois suffer, but I feel like that's really just an added bonus for whatever he is cooking up.

Michael Cudlitz's take on Lex is still an interesting one, because I'm use to Lex being mainly coming off like some smug elite, who believes he is above everyone.  But this Lex almost comes off like he could belong in a biker gang and be just as dangerous on the streets as he is in the boardroom.

Wasn't aware Yvonne Chapman was going to be showing up here!  Hopefully she won't just be standing beside Lex all of the time and we'll get to see her bust out some of those fighting moves she did on Kung-Fu!

Something is going to come out of Lois actually making a decision over which son to save, right?  Maybe Lex somehow recorded the response?  I'm thinking Jonathan, because she had more faith that Jordan would be able to get out of whatever the situation was due to his powers.  I don't know.

Knew they were scaling back the main cast this season, but I'm glad the likes of Sam and Lana will still be recurring at least.

Lois is right: Clark both revealing to her that he is Superman AND losing his virginity probably makes that day his favorite day ever!

The CW will never beat the "bad wigs" reputation if they keep doing stuff like putting whatever the hell that was on Michael Cudlitz's head during the Lex flashback.

Looking forward to seeing how this wraps up!

[baldryanr]

Lex might be a brutal sadist who is all in on psychologically breaking Lois before killing her, but the man is a good tipper.   He left a $100 for the tea!

Jordan needs to visit his grandpa at the DoD and workshop a better suit.  Scuba diver should not be the first thing that comes to mind when baddies look at him, and the goggles mean he can't use his heat vision.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

Lex might be a brutal sadist who is all in on psychologically breaking Lois before killing her, but the man is a good tipper.   He left a $100 for the tea!

Jordan needs to visit his grandpa at the DoD and workshop a better suit.  Scuba diver should not be the first thing that comes to mind when baddies look at him, and the goggles mean he can't use his heat vision.

I would think something Black Noirish would work. Or gray. As a training wheels sort of suit.. something that can disappear into shadows. Not like Clark’s suit. I feel for Jordan in all this. 

13 hours ago, DanaK said:

I really wish they didn’t continue with the Lex storyline for this last season. This version of Lex is a sadist and brutal and for me, it doesn’t fit this family show at all. The torture Lex inflicted on Doomsday last season to turn it into the current monster it is was too brutal for this show. I’m probably not going to enjoy this last season because of Lex and his methods

I give them credit for making Lex the real monster. I don’t think it is too brutal for the show. I think it is perfect.  

[Affogato]

14 hours ago, cdnalor said:

Shouldn't a Kryptonian's heart be as invulnerable as the rest of the body? Or at least more resistant to a human stomp.  I think maybe Lex gave Jordan a decoy.

That would be nice, but if it was depowered (away from sunlight, out of body)  would it still be invulnerable.? 

[TiffanyNichelle]

My question was how could Jordan still hear the heart beating? Or maybe why did Lex keep in it a box that kept it beating?

[cdnalor]

32 minutes ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

My question was how could Jordan still hear the heart beating? Or maybe why did Lex keep in it a box that kept it beating?

Jordan heard a simulated heartbeat that was coming from the Superman figure he found in a box.

[cdnalor]

40 minutes ago, Affogato said:

That would be nice, but if it was depowered (away from sunlight, out of body)  would it still be invulnerable.? 

I've never been comfortable with the idea that Superman becomes depowered when out of the sun.  He wouldn't be able to function at night or underground otherwise and it was never a concern when I was reading comics (a looong time ago!).  He used to fly to other planets well away from the sun with no problem.  Depends on who's writing the stories, I guess.

[Affogato]

9 minutes ago, cdnalor said:

I've never been comfortable with the idea that Superman becomes depowered when out of the sun.  He wouldn't be able to function at night or underground otherwise and it was never a concern when I was reading comics (a looong time ago!).  He used to fly to other planets well away from the sun with no problem.  Depends on who's writing the stories, I guess.

I didn’t mean out of the sun, apparently he stores power. But there is a time limit, and we saw this on the bizarro world. Also the heart may not be storing the energy and would lose strength when removed from the system. 
i wonder if doomsday’s heart would work for him?

[TiffanyNichelle]

1 hour ago, cdnalor said:

Jordan heard a simulated heartbeat that was coming from the Superman figure he found in a box.

Then my question becomes why would Jordan and Jonathan think that the heart was still be able to beat outside of Clark? Why would they think that Lex would keep the heart in something that kept it beating? Am I overthinking this?

Outside of those questions, these two episodes were depressing as hell. I'm hoping by episode 4 they get Clark's heart back and bring him back because I would hate for the final season to be all dead Clark only showing up in flashbacks or as a hologram and then in the last frame of the series finale we see a hint of him coming back.

One thing I did like was the new flashbacks Lois had of Clark that was mixed in with scenes we've actually seen. They felt like we've been watching this show for years and these were just scenes from earlier seasons. They didn't feel like brand new for the episode but more like, "oh yeah I remember the episode where she found out he was Superman, that was a great one!"

[Cattoy]

Partway through the second episode, and all I can think is - This is frickin' stupid. How is Lex walking around free? Lane survived the murder attempt. He can identify Lex as responsible. Lex would have been arrested for a number of charges immediately. And there are federal charges as well for going after a top government employee. Instead, he's walking around scott free making terroristic threats all over town.

Edited October 8 by Cattoy

[historylover820]

It's been so long since I've been here that I've forgotten how this box works!

My Dad is dying of cancer, so this caught me in the feels. And, maybe because I'm trying to face my Dad's death, I thought the conversation between Lois and the boys were going to include Jon saying something like, "I never thought he could die. Not because he's Superman but because he's Dad."

I don't agree this Lex is too sadistic. I'm very interested to seeing what will happen and where he is going with this.

I also thought that the heart that Lex crushed wasn't Clark's heart. It looked different than what was in Doomsday's hand. Although that's a big hand.

I'm also kind of worried that Clark/Superman will remain dead and will be in just hologram form until the finale. I hope not. But, it's still a better take on The Death of Superman than Batman v Superman.

[baldryanr]

4 hours ago, Cattoy said:

Partway through the second episode, and all I can think is - This is frickin' stupid. How is Lex walking around free? Lane survived the murder attempt. He can identify Lex as responsible. Lex would have been arrested for a number of charges immediately. And there are federal charges as well for going after a top government employee. Instead, he's walking around scott free making terroristic threats all over town.

Mutually assured destruction?  Sam knows if he has Lex tossed in a jail cell (or killed) then Lois and the boys are in for massive retribution.  Without Superman around he'd have to get them all into one heck of a witness protection program, and Lois would probably refuse to go anyway.

[Affogato]

Hey, milton is a real Braniac. 

[kickingnames]

I’m so happy the show is back, so sad that it’s ending, so heartbroken for Lois and the boys, so annoyed at the idea of not having Clark alive for a significant portion of the season, so concerned for Jonathan, and so absolutely done with Jordan. (Points for consistency — he’s been frustrating me the entire series.) Way to show this Lex as a serious threat by having him get a couple of good looks at Jordan and immediately put 2+2 together on the whole Clark/Superman connection, when no one else has.

I’m convinced that Lois actually making a selection on the phone is going to end up being Jonathan’s villain origin story. There’s just no way that doesn’t come into play later.

[norcalgal]

13 hours ago, historylover820 said:

My Dad is dying of cancer, so this caught me in the feels. And, maybe because I'm trying to face my Dad's death, I thought the conversation between Lois and the boys were going to include Jon saying something like, "I never thought he could die. Not because he's Superman but because he's Dad."

Sending you support and strength through the ether.  ❤️

[jah1986]

So depressing and frustrating. I almost lost my voice screaming at Jordan to stop being so reckless. Why can't these boys ever learn to just listen to their parents, just once? Lex backed Jordan down while the boy was levitating, that was your first clue you were not ready. I am glad that we're going to get the rest of the cast back in spots, just not all together. I loved Lana standing up to Lex in her own way ("you can make an appointment through my office"). He already knows she's different from other mayors he's dealt with.

Glad someone else in town figured out the Kent family secret and is just going to keep his mouth shut.

I cannot deal with hologram Clark for the whole season.

[blackwing]

11 hours ago, kickingnames said:

I’m so happy the show is back, so sad that it’s ending, so heartbroken for Lois and the boys, so annoyed at the idea of not having Clark alive for a significant portion of the season, so concerned for Jonathan, and so absolutely done with Jordan. (Points for consistency — he’s been frustrating me the entire series.) Way to show this Lex as a serious threat by having him get a couple of good looks at Jordan and immediately put 2+2 together on the whole Clark/Superman connection, when no one else has.

I’m convinced that Lois actually making a selection on the phone is going to end up being Jonathan’s villain origin story. There’s just no way that doesn’t come into play later.

This is pretty much how I feel.  I have greatly disliked Jordan since the show began.  Too whiny, too needy, too impulsive.  I hate his voice.  And I really really hate his Frodo Baggins hair.  Clark managed to deceive the world even though all he does is take off his glasses because of his everyman look and ability to blend in.  Jordan is never going to blend in with that stupid hair.  He puts his hood on to hide his hair?  If I were Clark, the first thing I would have done when Jordan said he wanted to be a superhero would be to use heat vision and cut off all his hair.

I had thought it was reported in the media that the entire supporting cast was getting fired as a result of the efforts to cut budget to save the show.  So I was pleasantly surprised to see Sam, Lana and Sarah showing up.  At least we know they are still around, even if it seems like there will be a rotating supporting cast who just show up in one episode and then disappear the next.  It was nice to see Emily as well.

With only 10 episodes this season, I hope they bring back Clark alive sooner rather than later.  I'm really not here for The Amazing Adventures of Superboy who is going to go back and forth between being incompetent and flying off to get advice from HoloDad.

I doubt this show will recreate the comics exactly, but in the comics, there were four who rose to lay claim to the Superman mantle after Superman was killed by Doomsday.  Two of them were Superboy (who wasn't Jordan Kent, he was the Connor clone that was depicted on "Titans") and Steel.   I forget who the other two were exactly but I think one may have been a cyborg and one was an alien who claimed to be Kryptonian.  

I would hope that we see John Henry Irons in the next episode, because Jordan needs help.

Why don't Jordan and John Henry just pick up Lex and drop him off in Antarctica or some remote deserted island with no technology?  

[Cattoy]

14 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Sam knows if he has Lex tossed in a jail cell (or killed) then Lois and the boys are in for massive retribution. 

As opposed to Luthor nearly killing both sons at the same time while planning his takeover of Smallville?

[blackwing]

I was surprised that Lois actually made a choice.  Wondering who she chose.  On the one hand, I would think she chooses Jon, because she figures that Jordan has powers and can survive Lex's trap.  But on the other hand, she might choose Jordan, because she might think that the town needs Jordan and his powers.

So I guess this show has reverted to being in a universe in which there are no other superheroes?  Arrowverse is truly dead.  You would think that there would at least be some superpowered heroes that Lois could call on.  Supergirl doesn't exist apparently anymore.  But aren't there others?  I just am so not here to see Frodo Jordan angsting his way into learning how be a superhero, all alone and out of his league.  Ugh.

[baldryanr]

10 minutes ago, blackwing said:

So I guess this show has reverted to being in a universe in which there are no other superheroes?  Arrowverse is truly dead.  You would think that there would at least be some superpowered heroes that Lois could call on.  Supergirl doesn't exist apparently anymore.  But aren't there others?  I just am so not here to see Frodo Jordan angsting his way into learning how be a superhero, all alone and out of his league.  Ugh

They established that at the end of season 2.  However, this world does have the Irons's, so hopefully they have a good explanation for where those two have been hiding while all of this has been going on. 

34 minutes ago, Cattoy said:

As opposed to Luthor nearly killing both sons at the same time while planning his takeover of Smallville?

Two sons who actively wandered into the lion's den - aside from threatening conversations in the diner, he's not at the point of hunting them down, and he still let Jordan go even though he could have killed him on the spot.

[Affogato]

I remembered the supporting cast would come back for some episodes, but not be regulars. I also remember Sam’s actor noped out, so I was pleasantly surprised to see him. The ptb have said they will ‘honor the arrowverse’. I’m not  really invested in any of it, besides this show, but I think there is enough going on without the other characters. 
 

i like Jordan. I also suspect he is a lot more like Clark than people maybe think. Square peg, round hole. He is a teen, it is his job to screw up…..and he is also a lot like Lous, right? Rash at times, self righteous, etc. 

13 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

 

Two sons who actively wandered into the lion's den - aside from threatening conversations in the diner, he's not at the point of hunting them down, and he still let Jordan go even though he could have killed him on the spot.

He is punishing Mom. The boys can be a future source of supply he can use against her. 

Edited October 9 by Affogato

[edhopper]

Things are tense and the good guys are on the ropes. But we know Clark will be back. I could take waiting until the 3rd or 4th episode, but after that, it is just dragging out the inevitable.

[scarynikki12]

7 hours ago, blackwing said:

So I guess this show has reverted to being in a universe in which there are no other superheroes?

Sadly yes. Season 1 had Diggle showing up to remind viewers it was part of the Arrowverse, and they were going to lean into crossovers with Batwoman but Covid scrapped all those plans. Then, in their infinite wisdom, they decided to retcon the show out of the Arrowverse with zero explanation as to why Diggle was around. They should have just continued on and just not explained why no other Arrowverse character came by.

On the other hand we wouldn't have gotten Michael's Lex and the AMAZING WIG so at least there's that.

[kickingnames]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

On the other hand we wouldn't have gotten Michael's Lex and the AMAZING WIG so at least there's that.

Sacrificing the Arrowverse to avoid having Jon Cryer’s Lex here is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

[norcalgal]

3 hours ago, kickingnames said:

Sacrificing the Arrowverse to avoid having Jon Cryer’s Lex here is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

I don’t think I watched any Arrowverse shows, but Ducky as Lex Luther?!?!  Hard no!

[edhopper]

11 hours ago, norcalgal said:

I don’t think I watched any Arrowverse shows, but Ducky as Lex Luther?!?!  Hard no!

Then you missed an absolutely wonderful character. 

[tennisgurl]

I almost forgot that this show was even coming back now that the CW is just about dead, but I am glad that at least this show gets the time to close things up, even with the much lower budget. I get the show wanting to do the Death of Superman story, but I am not thrilled about the prospect of having Clark absent for most of the final season, and the holo-Clark doesn't count. His death in general feels weirdly muted, even after a pretty sad last season, which I guess is on purpose but I am not sure if its the vibe I wanting. 

It feels nice to talk about superheroes on the CW again, for better or for worse the Arrowverse was a bit part of my television life for a very long time and I do miss it, and everyone here who watched until the bitter end. 

"Kinda sound like your the problem" I love Jon, he's so his mothers son. Jordan, I get that your grieving and desperate, but you are making every dumb choice you can imagine. Of course Lex will realize that your "the frog" and who your dad is, he isnt an isiot and your costume is stupid, of course the heart was a trap, etc. Lois picking a son is definately going to come back, that's a perfect terrible way to hurt their family when things are already so rough. My first thought is that she picked Jonathan and hoped that Jordan would be safer with his powers

This version of Lex is certainly a lot tougher than most recent versions of Lex, who tend to be more smug CEO types, but I appreciate that this Lex is just as petty as every other version. Its not bad enough to try to murder Lois's family, he also wants to flood her towns local economies with shitty big businesses to crowd out their small town charm! What a dick.