Unverified Intelligence: The Speculation/Wishlist Thread

[TVSpectator]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

 

With Phil ready to go for it with Melinda I think you got the wrong false flag relationship. Aida's "children" (Eli was going on about creating life at the end) might play the role of the Super-Skrulls much like the Inhumans have taken the place of Mutants.

 

Well, I already feel that the whole, replacing May with an imposter has already been done to death (remember Season 2 with Agent 33's May Mask?) and I do not know if they are going to bother with LMDs replacing the other characters because this show, in my opinion, will take the less interesting route. As with Coulson and May's relationship, yeah it's a mistake to pair them up and it seems that the writers have checked off all of their Season 1 ships. Although, the Fitz and Simmons ship is weird since the other two main ships from Season 1 (May/Coulson and Skye-Daisy/Ward) all were twisted and weird, so I am hoping that the writers will go down the route and find out that Simmons is a Skrull in hiding. 

[ohjoy]

I keep seeing speculation that the lady getting out of the car with Fitz in those last few "Framework" scenes was Aida -- but for some reason I just assumed it was his mom. As in, in this reality Fitz is a big science wiz working for his dad (actually made his dad proud, and his dad didn't bail on him and his mom), so he was just helping his mom out of the car to go see his dad at the fancy office.

[Raja]

I think that I will go with my thought from the episode thread The Superior just had a MCU origin as MODOK Superior Aida made a mistake when she told him to read the Darkhold as it effected her, Uncle Eli and Dr Radcliffe in different ways as they had different motivations going in. Her mission for him to protect the Framework will not be his mission once he learns a way to get around her.

[Enigma X]

I just finished watching. This was a superb episode but stand by my not wanting Dalton back. I was never impressed by the actor or character he played. As good as this episode was I do hate that this whole things smacks of Radcliffe being a mad scientist and Aida being a robot gone crazy. That is predictable. 

[Raja]

The wish is for a second online Yo-yo story going up against MODOK Superior and Aida in the real world.

The speculation. Since The Winter Soldier and Turn,Turn, Turn I have thought that the only way that the story works is if SHIELD and Hydra recruits have practically the same psychology profile. Even though I expect this is the series finale coming up I don't expect to see Fitz again. Leopold the doctor was already in there ready to come out 

[Raja]

With The Patriot's sacrifice and Daisy coming out of her cocoon I think the Framework Triskelion is about to fall from a massive earthquake. And guess who becomes the new Inhuman hero and Director of SHIELD

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

Wow, this arc has been fantastic! That last scene made me giggle. As far as bringing Ward, Tripp or Hope back to the real world somehow, I am preparing my heart for much sadness. We'll see I guess.

I'm increasingly convinced that given the Darkhold's involvement that The Framework isnt just copy program but a very real other dimmension/reality.   And given that this show likes to go for the juggular, I wouldnt be surprised if they try to bring Tripp, Ward, and Hope 'through the looking glass' but only Tripp or Ward makes it.  

If I had to choose one to come through, it'd be Tripp.  BJ's other show is done now so he can be a regular now.  

[Teitr Styrr]

I've heard that speculation, and I don't really mind it, but it seems that Mace dying in the real world from suffering fatal injuries in the Framework kinda work against that theory. If it was a separate dimension, why would it have affected him in ours?

[Maverick]

 Because plot.

 

 Here's a radical theory:  maybe the gang will get stuck in the framework and the rest of the show will play out there.

[Raja]

A General Talbot LMD got shot between the eyes by a Daisy LMD in the 4th  season finale 

[Raja]

Since the product of the Lighthouse seems to be Inhumans for gladiator slavery I am guessing that the bunker is made of the remains of where the Inhuman Royal community went to.

[Chaos Theory]

Unverified speculation but my guess is that Deke is going to end up being Fitz a nd Jemma’s Kid.  He made a big deal about saying his parents were the last of the smart people and heroic types which fits both of them.  I know it’s a long shot but my guess is he will end up being their kid.

[SnoGirl]

8 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Unverified speculation but my guess is that Deke is going to end up being Fitz a nd Jemma’s Kid.  He made a big deal about saying his parents were the last of the smart people and heroic types which fits both of them.  I know it’s a long shot but my guess is he will end up being their kid.

Thats what I had been thinking too, but as their grandchild. Has he seen Gemma yet though? You would think he would do a double-take when he saw her if she was his mother. I was hoping for a tie to our heroes as a child of someone.

[Raja]

Enoch as a "sentient", sounds like an artificial is going to the surface to meet a xenomorph/ roaches and save Agent May. I hope he has a better outcome than Bishop.

[Raja]

Since they already did a shawarma scene as a season finale after savingthe world they look up above New York and see that Stargate hovering 

[Raja]

Before the end of the Lighthouse pod I got reminded of Vjjay Nadeer. His Inhuman power set was sort of seer like.

[kitlee625]

Some general speculation here on season 5 - do people think Coulson will die in the finale? Personally I'm torn. It seems to make a lot of sense from a story standpoint -- the show began with Coulson's second life and mentoring Daisy, and season 5 would then end with him passing the torch to her. The writers did say that they are writing this as the series finale, in case it's not renewed. I'm just not sure that the writers would make such a bold move. The show hasn't been cancelled yet, and I'm not sure they would risk a season 6 without Coulson.

[TVSpectator]

7 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

Some general speculation here on season 5 - do people think Coulson will die in the finale? Personally I'm torn. It seems to make a lot of sense from a story standpoint -- the show began with Coulson's second life and mentoring Daisy, and season 5 would then end with him passing the torch to her. The writers did say that they are writing this as the series finale, in case it's not renewed. I'm just not sure that the writers would make such a bold move. The show hasn't been cancelled yet, and I'm not sure they would risk a season 6 without Coulson.

It's possible that they are going to write an ending for the show. But the showrunners have also said that they are not just writing an ending but an ending where they can pick up and continue- if they get renewed. So, if Coulson does die they won't let him stay dead for long and would probably just write another way to bring him back. Another thing is that they are not going to rewrite Simmons and Fitz so they are probably going to be a) both alive, b) be together and probably also handwave everything Fitz did by the end of Season 5. Hell, I would expect by the end of the next episode for them to find a way to get rid of Fitzler for good (probably by having the same way Bucky got "brainwashed" in Black Panther (even though this won't really solve the handwaving of the writers just having Fitz walk away from torturing Daisy), either have Deke return to the future and/or he stays in the present and becomes a SHIELD member (yuck), etc... I can see the writers having Daisy as the director by the end of the season and then in Season 6 (if there is a Season 6- and I would say that it all depends on what Disney wants) that she will give up the director's chair back to Coulson (and honestly, neither of them should be the Director of SHIELD but with this show they won't allow anyone else. Hell, they probably killed off Mace because of it), etc... 

[SnoGirl]

Im torn about Coulson. From a storytelling point of view, Coulson should probably die at the end of this season. Officially pass off the torch to Daisy. However, I’m going to be slightly bummed that they played five seasons of will they wont they with Coulson and May to end it now. And I real like Coulson’s dry wit.

And if this isnt the final season, I have no idea how you fix Fitz. I hope they don’t handwave it, they really need to address him and his choices. I kinda hope May takes him under her wing like she did with Daisy. May was Hydra too so she understands. Let’s be honest, Fitz is no longer just a tech specialist anymore and needs someone to help him figure it out.  And he needs some serious therapy. If the show comes back, I hope Hunter comes back. I think Mack and Hunter would be good for Fitz. And to be honest, I want to see the three of them out in the field together.

[TVSpectator]

12 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Im torn about Coulson. From a storytelling point of view, Coulson should probably die at the end of this season. Officially pass off the torch to Daisy.

2

From a storytelling point of view, Coulson should die when the series ends but I feel like they are trying to push Daisy into the leadership role (even though I don't think that either character should've been/be director of SHIELD. But honestly, this show seems to always prove me right- Coulson wasn't a great director and Daisy isn't anywhere near ready to be a director. The only one who seems like ready to be director would be either Mack and/or May but I honestly don't think that the show will go there at all. Sure they had a brief time (that lasted only two episodes) where Coulson made Maci the "temporary SHIELD director" when he decided to kidnap Ward's younger brother, but overall I do think that they are trying to push Daisy into the role (and honestly she isn't ready and won't be for a long time. Also, Daisy has to be, currently, either 30 or 31 (and when you think about it Fitz and Simmons also have to be between 30-34-ish as well). I know in the comics Daisy Johnson is like 19 or 21 but the show has either made the characters older than they are in the comics (i.e. Robbie, Gabe, and Daisy to name a few) or made them a bit younger than the actors playing them (i.e. Coulson and May. Clark Gregg and Ming-Na Wen are in their 50s, but their characters (I think) are supposed to be in their mid-40s (well, IMO, I think Wen looks like she is in her early 40s), etc... 

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However, I’m going to be slightly bummed that they played five seasons of will they wont they with Coulson and May to end it now. And I real like Coulson’s dry wit.

WTF, five seasons of Will They/Won't They for Coulson and May? When did the show ever had that Will They/Won't They for May and Coulson in any season prior to Season 4? That shit was retconned in Season 4 when Coulson suddenly developed romantic feelings for May. Hell, they have always been friends but please there was never any Will They/Won't They. That was that (yet again) crappy ship between Coulson and May that some fans had. In my opinion, Joss Whedon should just retake this show and crush all shippers' desire IF there is a Season 6. 

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And if this isnt the final season, I have no idea how you fix Fitz. I hope they don’t handwave it, they really need to address him and his choices. I kinda hope May takes him under her wing like she did with Daisy. May was Hydra too so she understands. Let’s be honest, Fitz is no longer just a tech specialist anymore and needs someone to help him figure it out.  And he needs some serious therapy. If the show comes back, I hope Hunter comes back. I think Mack and Hunter would be good for Fitz. And to be honest, I want to see the three of them out in the field together.

You have a point about how it seems impossible at this point to fix Fitz, IMO. But honestly, I just can't see the writers ever going in the direction where Daisy will never forgive Fitz and/or Fitz becomes evil/a supervillain at all (or have it stick for the entire series). If they thought that they were going to be canceled in Season 4 and wrote the Season 4 finale as "family gathers at a dinner table after Fitz hid AIDA and LMDS literally blew up the playground, got tons of SHIELD agents killed, agents were kidnapped killed and/or replace with LMDs, and puts the main characters into a VR imprisonment where Hydra rules and he was a Dr. Mengela preforming amoral experiments, etc....." which, in my opinion, is sad because I thought that they could've done better. Also, what Fitz did, this season, IMO was a moral line that he crossed but the writers will probably never admit to it and properly deal with the actual fallout and not a forced ending where Daisy goes, "oh, Fitz I understand. Blah, blah, blah....". But this has nothing to do with May as Hydra (either time) this has to do with Fitz torturing a living breathing Daisy (which he believed was his friend and Daisy once trusted him) but now that a line has been crossed. There seems to be already handwaving being done by the other characters and I won't be surprised if Daisy just suddenly has a "changed of heart" and/or they write a deus ex machina way of solving it, IMO. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Froippi]

15 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

From a storytelling point of view, Coulson should die when the series ends but I feel like they are trying to push Daisy into the leadership role (even though I don't think that either character should've been/be director of SHIELD. But honestly, this show seems to always prove me right- Coulson wasn't a great director and Daisy isn't anywhere near ready to be a director. The only one who seems like ready to be director would be either Mack and/or May but I honestly don't think that the show will go there at all. Sure they had a brief time (that lasted only two episodes) where Coulson made Maci the "temporary SHIELD director" when he decided to kidnap Ward's younger brother, but overall I do think that they are trying to push Daisy into the role (and honestly she isn't ready and won't be for a long time. Also, Daisy has to be, currently, either 30 or 31 (and when you think about it Fitz and Simmons also have to be between 30-34-ish as well). I know in the comics Daisy Johnson is like 19 or 21 but the show has either made the characters older than they are in the comics (i.e. Robbie, Gabe, and Daisy to name a few) or made them a bit younger than the actors playing them (i.e. Coulson and May. Clark Gregg and Ming-Na Wen are in their 50s, but their characters (I think) are supposed to be in their mid-40s (well, IMO, I think Wen looks like she is in her early 40s), etc... 

WTF, five seasons of Will They/Won't They for Coulson and May? When did the show ever had that Will They/Won't They for May and Coulson in any season prior to Season 4? That shit was retconned in Season 4 when Coulson suddenly developed romantic feelings for May. Hell, they have always been friends but please there was never any Will They/Won't They. That was that (yet again) crappy ship between Coulson and May that some fans had. In my opinion, Joss Whedon should just retake this show and crush all shippers' desire IF there is a Season 6. 

You have a point about how it seems impossible at this point to fix Fitz, IMO. But honestly, I just can't see the writers ever going in the direction where Daisy will never forgive Fitz and/or Fitz becomes evil/a supervillain at all (or have it stick for the entire series). If they thought that they were going to be canceled in Season 4 and wrote the Season 4 finale as "family gathers at a dinner table after Fitz hid AIDA and LMDS literally blew up the playground, got tons of SHIELD agents killed, agents were kidnapped killed and/or replace with LMDs, and puts the main characters into a VR imprisonment where Hydra rules and he was a Dr. Mengela preforming amoral experiments, etc....." which, in my opinion, is sad because I thought that they could've done better. Also, what Fitz did, this season, IMO was a moral line that he crossed but the writers will probably never admit to it and properly deal with the actual fallout and not a forced ending where Daisy goes, "oh, Fitz I understand. Blah, blah, blah....". But this has nothing to do with May as Hydra (either time) this has to do with Fitz torturing a living breathing Daisy (which he believed was his friend and Daisy once trusted him) but now that a line has been crossed. There seems to be already handwaving being done by the other characters and I won't be surprised if Daisy just suddenly has a "changed of heart" and/or they write a deus ex machina way of solving it, IMO. 

If you read Hypable today it sounds like what Fitz did will not even be the worst episode of crossing moral lines 

[SnoGirl]

9 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

WTF, five seasons of Will They/Won't They for Coulson and May? When did the show ever had that Will They/Won't They for May and Coulson in any season prior to Season 4? That shit was retconned in Season 4 when Coulson suddenly developed romantic feelings for May. Hell, they have always been friends but please there was never any Will They/Won't They. That was that (yet again) crappy ship between Coulson and May that some fans had. In my opinion, Joss Whedon should just retake this show and crush all shippers' desire IF there is a Season 6. 

You have a point about how it seems impossible at this point to fix Fitz, IMO. But honestly, I just can't see the writers ever going in the direction where Daisy will never forgive Fitz and/or Fitz becomes evil/a supervillain at all (or have it stick for the entire series). If they thought that they were going to be canceled in Season 4 and wrote the Season 4 finale as "family gathers at a dinner table after Fitz hid AIDA and LMDS literally blew up the playground, got tons of SHIELD agents killed, agents were kidnapped killed and/or replace with LMDs, and puts the main characters into a VR imprisonment where Hydra rules and he was a Dr. Mengela preforming amoral experiments, etc....." which, in my opinion, is sad because I thought that they could've done better. Also, what Fitz did, this season, IMO was a moral line that he crossed but the writers will probably never admit to it and properly deal with the actual fallout and not a forced ending where Daisy goes, "oh, Fitz I understand. Blah, blah, blah....". But this has nothing to do with May as Hydra (either time) this has to do with Fitz torturing a living breathing Daisy (which he believed was his friend and Daisy once trusted him) but now that a line has been crossed. There seems to be already handwaving being done by the other characters and I won't be surprised if Daisy just suddenly has a "changed of heart" and/or they write a deus ex machina way of solving it, IMO. 

LOL, I’m in the middle of a rewatch. I always thought Coulson and May had that vibe of both of them liking each other just, always at the wrong times. I especially thought it was apparent whenever the other had a significant other in the picture. I actually shipped Coulson and Roslind, but Ward killed that ship. It’ll be sad (to me) if May and Coulson never get the chance to try at a relationship. It’s a little too real life for me. But miles may vary on how long they’ve been flirting on the edge of a relationship ☺️

 

I want to know if this is brain injury that’s causing Fitz’s split personality (also, Daisy quaking him is well deserved but also he banged his head so obviously not a great choice) or if this is guilt and lack of sleep that’s causing the split.

 

If the series is ending, I wouldnt mind Daisy as the head of Shield. Full circle.  But if its not ending, I would prefer May or Mack. More May than Mack just because we’ve had all male directors. Plus, Daisy shouldnt really be out in the field if she’s the director, but she’s too strong of an asset to not have out in the field. 

[Froippi]

Well I guess if they had to repeat the process again and build the time machine that would erase everything Fitz done but I don’t think they will go that route I think they want it to stick 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Froippi

[Lady Calypso]

Well, here's the thing I was thinking about. They still have another Fitz in the Lighthouse, so if they change the future, then they have cryogenic Fitz still stashed away somewhere. They could sacrifice this new version of Fitz, wake up the other one, and then find a way to fix him before his brain breaks. Of course, I do think that would be retconning his entire Framework arc this season, but I could see the show doing this (and saying "see? Fitz sacrificed himself for the greater good to save the world! He's redeemable!").  

I'd much prefer they just follow through with this new version of Fitz, but I think people are handwaving his actions (he HAD to operate on Daisy to save the WORLD....by potentially DESTROYING the world later on!), especially since he's part of a popular couple. The show's already gone in the handwave direction. 

They shouldn't have attempted this if their plan was to handwave his actions away. I did really like Fitz and he's been my favourite character...well, until now. My opinion of him HAS changed, and not in a good way. 

[SnoGirl]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, here's the thing I was thinking about. They still have another Fitz in the Lighthouse, so if they change the future, then they have cryogenic Fitz still stashed away somewhere. They could sacrifice this new version of Fitz, wake up the other one, and then find a way to fix him before his brain breaks. Of course, I do think that would be retconning his entire Framework arc this season, but I could see the show doing this (and saying "see? Fitz sacrificed himself for the greater good to save the world! He's redeemable!").  

OH! I like this theory a lot. Does it break the loop? Or does it speed it up bc Fitz knows he has the ability to go rogue? Also, it allows our heroes to know 1)Daisy is not the Destroyer 2)They can remove the blocker from Daisy without paralyzing her.

Either way, Fitz is going to be racked with guilt, he believes time cant be changed, he’ll think he’s doomed to have a split personality and stuck in the villain lane.

Do you think the writers will let our heroes go back to space? Maybe do a “fast-forward” through things that dont change and let us see the things that do? Our own groundhog’s day episode? 

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

OH! I like this theory a lot. Does it break the loop? Or does it speed it up bc Fitz knows he has the ability to go rogue? Also, it allows our heroes to know 1)Daisy is not the Destroyer 2)They can remove the blocker from Daisy without paralyzing her.

Either way, Fitz is going to be racked with guilt, he believes time cant be changed, he’ll think he’s doomed to have a split personality and stuck in the villain lane.

Do you think the writers will let our heroes go back to space? Maybe do a “fast-forward” through things that dont change and let us see the things that do? Our own groundhog’s day episode? 

Well, the only way they'd wake up the cryogenic Fitz is if they saved the world, in my opinion. And I guess, saving the world could cause that Fitz to disappear, but it also shouldn't, since he's not an anomaly like Deke is. Though time travel and paradoxes confuse me.

I'd actually be very impressed if they ended the season with the world still being destroyed and them continuing to be stuck in the loop. That would be a brave thing for the show to go into a possible series finale....but I know that I'd only really want that ending if a final season is guaranteed. But I'm positive they'll fix things because of the uncertainty of the future...of the show, that is. It's just a question of how. Sacrificing a main character is likely. I think it has to be Coulson, since old Yo-Yo told her younger self that Coulson has to die in order to break the loop. Though we didn't see Daisy, Coulson, or Mack in the future scenes, so maybe someone else has to be sacrificed. 

Since the show likes torturing Fitzsimmons, I'm placing my bets on Fitz. I think that's the only way to really redeem him...which is basically just rewinding what they've done and fixing the cryogenic Fitz before he turns into a villain. 

[SnoGirl]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, the only way they'd wake up the cryogenic Fitz is if they saved the world, in my opinion. And I guess, saving the world could cause that Fitz to disappear, but it also shouldn't, since he's not an anomaly like Deke is. Though time travel and paradoxes confuse me.

I'd actually be very impressed if they ended the season with the world still being destroyed and them continuing to be stuck in the loop. That would be a brave thing for the show to go into a possible series finale....but I know that I'd only really want that ending if a final season is guaranteed. But I'm positive they'll fix things because of the uncertainty of the future...of the show, that is. It's just a question of how. Sacrificing a main character is likely. I think it has to be Coulson, since old Yo-Yo told her younger self that Coulson has to die in order to break the loop. Though we didn't see Daisy, Coulson, or Mack in the future scenes, so maybe someone else has to be sacrificed. 

Since the show likes torturing Fitzsimmons, I'm placing my bets on Fitz. I think that's the only way to really redeem him...which is basically just rewinding what they've done and fixing the cryogenic Fitz before he turns into a villain. 

I kinda think Fitz is the key too. Why wouldnt Future YoYo warn Past YoYo about Fitz going Leopold? “Lock Fitz, his personality is going to split and cause all sorts of issues.” I wonder if his split happened in the other time loops.

And how would future YoYo know if Coulson dying solves the problems? She has to be guessing, she would have no idea what works, other than its what the previous Future YoYo told her but she prevented to actually do.

My brain hurts. Do you think they came up with an exit strategy for this loop?  This is why I hate time loops. They are impossible to break out of cleanly. Even if Fitz is the key, something still has to happen for him to be in cryogen for them to get him in the first place. And since they have been annoying vague with when in time the Agents went back to, Fitz could be with Hunter right now too and not in cryogen.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

I kinda think Fitz is the key too. Why wouldnt Future YoYo warn Past YoYo about Fitz going Leopold? “Lock Fitz, his personality is going to split and cause all sorts of issues.” I wonder if his split happened in the other time loops.

And how would future YoYo know if Coulson dying solves the problems? She has to be guessing, she would have no idea what works, other than its what the previous Future YoYo told her but she prevented to actually do.

My brain hurts. Do you think they came up with an exit strategy for this loop?  This is why I hate time loops. They are impossible to break out of cleanly. Even if Fitz is the key, something still has to happen for him to be in cryogen for them to get him in the first place. And since they have been annoying vague with when in time the Agents went back to, Fitz could be with Hunter right now too and not in cryogen.

Simple, Elena didn't have time to give a play by play of the events, She concluded that trying to save Coulson was the critical event thus gave Yo-yo that to remember 

[TVSpectator]

8 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

LOL, I’m in the middle of a rewatch. I always thought Coulson and May had that vibe of both of them liking each other just, always at the wrong times. I especially thought it was apparent whenever the other had a significant other in the picture. I actually shipped Coulson and Roslind, but Ward killed that ship. It’ll be sad (to me) if May and Coulson never get the chance to try at a relationship. It’s a little too real life for me. But miles may vary on how long they’ve been flirting on the edge of a relationship ☺️

1

Looking back to Seasons 1-3 Coulson and May were always friends and not some lovers longing to be together. That is just shippers (and in my opinion, they ruined the show) trying to force their interpretation onto the show. Then the show decided to retcon that into Coulson having longing feelings for May, etc...

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I want to know if this is brain injury that’s causing Fitz’s split personality (also, Daisy quaking him is well deserved but also he banged his head so obviously not a great choice) or if this is guilt and lack of sleep that’s causing the split.

I thought that the personality of Fitzter (Fitz's alternate VR Framework Personality of an amoral Hydra scientist) was always inside him/always a part of him and that the fear dimension thing just allowed it to come to the surface and that his insomnia was his way of trying to "suppress" Fitzler?

 

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If the series is ending, I wouldnt mind Daisy as the head of Shield. Full circle.  But if its not ending, I would prefer May or Mack. More May than Mack just because we’ve had all male directors. Plus, Daisy shouldnt really be out in the field if she’s the director, but she’s too strong of an asset to not have out in the field. 

I thought the term "full-circle" would mean that Daisy would go back using her alias, "Skye" and start living in a van trying to take down SHIELD? Well, she won't be able to take down SHIELD now since it's gone but I guess she can still be a hacker living in a van?

[TVSpectator]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, the only way they'd wake up the cryogenic Fitz is if they saved the world, in my opinion. And I guess, saving the world could cause that Fitz to disappear, but it also shouldn't, since he's not an anomaly like Deke is. Though time travel and paradoxes confuse me.

I'd actually be very impressed if they ended the season with the world still being destroyed and them continuing to be stuck in the loop. That would be a brave thing for the show to go into a possible series finale....but I know that I'd only really want that ending if a final season is guaranteed. But I'm positive they'll fix things because of the uncertainty of the future...of the show, that is. It's just a question of how. Sacrificing a main character is likely. I think it has to be Coulson, since old Yo-Yo told her younger self that Coulson has to die in order to break the loop. Though we didn't see Daisy, Coulson, or Mack in the future scenes, so maybe someone else has to be sacrificed. 

Since the show likes torturing Fitzsimmons, I'm placing my bets on Fitz. I think that's the only way to really redeem him...which is basically just rewinding what they've done and fixing the cryogenic Fitz before he turns into a villain. 

If Fitlzer was part of Fitz, then he was present in Fitz since the Framework and/or before the Framework. So I don't think to try to wake up the cryogenic Fitz anytime soon (also do they know the location of where Enoch kept Fitz as well?).

 

As with Fitz, currently, he either has this to happen:

 

- Fitz (or someone else) finds a way to either "control" Fitzler and/or remove Fitzler. Fitz is now 'cured'. This seems to be the most likely thing they will write on the show

- He becomes a villain for the rest of the series-  this is unlikely to happen

- Fitz dies. If he does die he probably will sacrifice himself for something. This one seems the most unlikely out of the three, for me since I doubt that the showrunners will kill Fitz off. They love these characters and ships way too much to have something like this happen (or to have any ships break up). Which is sad because once you realized this you know that these things are pretty much off the table (in terms of writing) and that any real drama doesn't come out of this show. Because you now realized that the showrunners will not allow anything too bad (meaning that they will always bounce back. No matter how, in my opinion, fuck up it can be. Fitz shot Simmons in the Framework- gets instantaneously forgiven. Fitz tortures Daisy- gets forgiven, Fitz hides AIDA- gets forgiven, Simmons falls in love with someone else- gets forgotten about and retconned, Fitz gets "irreversible brain damage" gets forgotten about for like 2 1/2 seasons and only gets brought up once recently, Fitz hides Daisy's test results from Simmons- gets instantaneously forgiven and forgotten about, Fitz almost getting Coulson and the rest of the team killed- gets forgiven and forgotten about, etc.... 

[Froippi]

18 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

If Fitlzer was part of Fitz, then he was present in Fitz since the Framework and/or before the Framework. So I don't think to try to wake up the cryogenic Fitz anytime soon (also do they know the location of where Enoch kept Fitz as well?).

 

As with Fitz, currently, he either has this to happen:

 

- Fitz (or someone else) finds a way to either "control" Fitzler and/or remove Fitzler. Fitz is now 'cured'. This seems to be the most likely thing they will write on the show

- He becomes a villain for the rest of the series-  this is unlikely to happen

- Fitz dies. If he does die he probably will sacrifice himself for something. This one seems the most unlikely out of the three, for me since I doubt that the showrunners will kill Fitz off. They love these characters and ships way too much to have something like this happen (or to have any ships break up). Which is sad because once you realized this you know that these things are pretty much off the table (in terms of writing) and that any real drama doesn't come out of this show. Because you now realized that the showrunners will not allow anything too bad (meaning that they will always bounce back. No matter how, in my opinion, fuck up it can be. Fitz shot Simmons in the Framework- gets instantaneously forgiven. Fitz tortures Daisy- gets forgiven, Fitz hides AIDA- gets forgiven, Simmons falls in love with someone else- gets forgotten about and retconned, Fitz gets "irreversible brain damage" gets forgotten about for like 2 1/2 seasons and only gets brought up once recently, Fitz hides Daisy's test results from Simmons- gets instantaneously forgiven and forgotten about, Fitz almost getting Coulson and the rest of the team killed- gets forgiven and forgotten about, etc.... 

Well I could see another way but doubt the writers want to erase this timeline 

[TVSpectator]

13 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Well I could see another way but doubt the writers want to erase this timeline 

Well, yeah, that is another way but where do they go? How far will they erase this timeline? How many changes will be made and how will that effect they're (so-called) belove characters/ships? Also by doing it, they will effectively make this show, non-MCU canon with it being set in an alternate timeline. Sure this is a time travel story but the showrunners really want visions to come true and also to be part of the MCU. So if there is a time travel reset then effectively this entire season won't matter, IMO, and also (set in canon) that this show was either (from the start of the series) not part of the MCU but with the time travel fix it will be now set in the MCU, and/or officially write themselves out of the MCU and canonically speaking be in another universe/alternate timeline. 

[Froippi]

17 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Well, yeah, that is another way but where do they go? How far will they erase this timeline? How many changes will be made and how will that effect they're (so-called) belove characters/ships? Also by doing it, they will effectively make this show, non-MCU canon with it being set in an alternate timeline. Sure this is a time travel story but the showrunners really want visions to come true and also to be part of the MCU. So if there is a time travel reset then effectively this entire season won't matter, IMO, and also (set in canon) that this show was either (from the start of the series) not part of the MCU but with the time travel fix it will be now set in the MCU, and/or officially write themselves out of the MCU and canonically speaking be in another universe/alternate timeline. 

I was just throwing the ideal out their I am pretty sure they would not go that direction 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Froippi

[Froippi]

I'm thinking that Ruby and Strucker will need Fitz to finish that machine which might be where this becomes real dangerous situation for Fitz just some of me speculating 

[Froippi]

I also like to add when their saying Coulson can put the pieces together perhaps it means putting the team back together cause it’s fracture I know it’s a long shot on speculation but it is something to think about it 

[SnoGirl]

18 hours ago, Froippi said:

I also like to add when their saying Coulson can put the pieces together perhaps it means putting the team back together cause it’s fracture I know it’s a long shot on speculation but it is something to think about it 

I like that idea too. Because the team is really fractured and they’re all searching out answers to their own agendas.

Robin said Coulson figures out all the pieces. Now, its really bothering me. Do you think we have all the pieces yet?

1) Gravitonium is either alive or has the memories from Dr Hall. By the way, I cannot believe they’re pulling from season one for this. I looked it up, this starts in episode THREE. Anyways, we know at some point the Gravitonium ends up in the Lighthouse because it is used as the way to give the Lighthouse gravity in the future. Is Gravitonium a villian in the Marvel comics?

2) Whitehall wants to make a Destroyer of Worlds-makes no sense but hey, lets destroy the planet you live on. FitzSimmons and YoYo go after the machine. Also three of the four people we see in the future still alive. I’m assuming that the machine does work, and falls back into Hydra’s hands. Or someone’s hands.

3) Creel is a test subject-Im assuming to see what the Gravitonium does to a person. But we saw with Quinn. You’re absorbed.

4) Deke showed us footage of Daisy running into some place before the earth fractured while they were in his space “bar”-She was wearing her Quake outfit, wasnt she?

So, we can assume the good guys get the machine, Hydra comes after it, Earth fractures?

I wonder when the break in the time loop happens, if our heroes will know? Something like Deke disappearing. Ive been kinda wondering if the solution to our problem we’ve already seen. What if to solve the fracture Fitz needs to build something similar to how he built the thing for the crack to another world, and Daisy needs to use her powers to seal it. They would have to bridge their fracture somehow. 

I also wonder if breaking the time loop sends our heroes back to the cafe they started this whole mess at. If someone dies, would they be there at the cafe? And if its back to the cafe, that also means Hale is going to be right there to scoop them up. Out of the fire, back into Hydra. 

Or would they have their memories? It would be curious if they didnt bc that would mean Fitz is a ticking time bomb of split personalities. Or, would they just keep moving from that moment on of the break of the time loop?

Edited April 8, 2018 by SnoGirl

[MostlyC]

 do people think Coulson will die in the finale?

I feel like it would be too much like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  I like to think that Jed Weedon wouldn't write the same kind of ending that his brother did.

[TVSpectator]

1 minute ago, MostlyC said:

 

I feel like it would be too much like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  I like to think that Jed Weedon wouldn't write the same kind of ending that his brother did.

Season 4 felt like they were recreating all of the old (and famous scenes) from Joss Whedon's career (right down to having the main cast sit around a dinner table (they didn't go for shawarma but still...)

[kitlee625]

23 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

1) Gravitonium is either alive or has the memories from Dr Hall. By the way, I cannot believe they’re pulling from season one for this. I looked it up, this starts in episode THREE. Anyways, we know at some point the Gravitonium ends up in the Lighthouse because it is used as the way to give the Lighthouse gravity in the future. Is Gravitonium a villian in the Marvel comics?

 

In the comics, Franklin Hall is a supervillain named Graviton who can manipulate gravity.

 

I'm not sure if Hall and Quinn have been trapped in the gravitonium this entire time (or maybe Hall is stuck in there and he killed Quinn?), or if the gravitonium has absorbed the two men and their memories and is now sentient.

[TVSpectator]

29 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

In the comics, Franklin Hall is a supervillain named Graviton who can manipulate gravity.

 

I'm not sure if Hall and Quinn have been trapped in the gravitonium this entire time (or maybe Hall is stuck in there and he killed Quinn?), or if the gravitonium has absorbed the two men and their memories and is now sentient.

Graviton is an Avenger level threat and if they don't call in either Tony and/or Vision I am pretty much done with this show. 

[SnoGirl]

41 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

In the comics, Franklin Hall is a supervillain named Graviton who can manipulate gravity.

 

I'm not sure if Hall and Quinn have been trapped in the gravitonium this entire time (or maybe Hall is stuck in there and he killed Quinn?), or if the gravitonium has absorbed the two men and their memories and is now sentient.

Thanks! So we've can probably assume Hale/Ruby are officially second tier villains to Dr Hall/Graviton. I'm going to double-down on FitzSimmons and Daisy having to team up to take him down. Dr Hall was Daisy's first undercover work. Dr Hall taught FitzSimmons. The original babies of Shield taking on the big bad, I like it.

11 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Graviton is an Avenger level threat and if they don't call in either Tony and/or Vision I am pretty much done with this show. 

Not that I want this show canceled, but if it was, it would have been a fantastic surprise if they had gotten RDJ or another Avenger to pop in for the final finale. I remember reading interviews when Agents of Shield first started of the movie actors saying they would guest on AoS if asked. 

[TVSpectator]

1 minute ago, SnoGirl said:

Thanks! So we've can probably assume Hale/Ruby are officially second tier villains to Dr Hall/Graviton. I'm going to double-down on FitzSimmons and Daisy having to team up to take him down. Dr Hall was Daisy's first undercover work. Dr Hall taught FitzSimmons. The original babies of Shield taking on the big bad, I like it.

Not that I want this show canceled, but if it was, it would have been a fantastic surprise if they had gotten RDJ or another Avenger to pop in for the final finale. I remember reading interviews when Agents of Shield first started of the movie actors saying they would guest on AoS if asked. 

I think that Dove Cameron last episode is the 5X18, so maybe you are right that Graviton will kill them. 

[kitlee625]

5 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

I think that Dove Cameron last episode is the 5X18, so maybe you are right that Graviton will kill them. 

It always seemed like a waste that the writers introduced Graviton in the third episode and then ignored him for four seasons.

[TVSpectator]

2 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

It always seemed like a waste that the writers introduced Graviton in the third episode and then ignored him for four seasons.

They held onto a scene of Ian Quinn being killed/absorbed for 4 seasons and really for what? IMO, they could've used that scene in Season 1 (and I guess it didn't really affect Raina in any real way since she was like, "oh, whatever....") and just leave it like that. But they cut it from 1X22 and then just sat on it for 4 Seasons?

 

In my opinion, there is a lot of things that this show wasted away. Graviton is just one of them. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by TVSpectator

[SnoGirl]

7 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

It always seemed like a waste that the writers introduced Graviton in the third episode and then ignored him for four seasons.

I thought they forgot about the professor. Wasn't the last scene of that episode the Gravitonium making a shape? I always thought he was supposed to be the big bad at the end of the season but then Captain American's Winter Soldier happened. 

 

4 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

They held onto a scene of Ian Quinn being killed/absorbed for 4 seasons and really for what? IMO, they could've used that scene in Season 1 (and I guess it didn't really affect Raina in any real way since she was like, "oh, whatever....") and just leave it like that. But they cut it from 1X22 and then just sat on it for 4 Seasons?

 

In my opinion, there is a lot of things that this show wasted away. Graviton is just one of them. 

I think a lot of the show was dictated to the writers. A lot of Thor stuff, Winter Soldier really affected the show.

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

I thought they forgot about the professor. Wasn't the last scene of that episode the Gravitonium making a shape? I always thought he was supposed to be the big bad at the end of the season but then Captain American's Winter Soldier happened. 

 

I think a lot of the show was dictated to the writers. A lot of Thor stuff, Winter Soldier really affected the show.

 

 

According to the Russos, during an interview (and this was from my memory) but the AoS showrunners learned about their plans to destroy SHIELD before they worked on Season 1 and/or during the time they were working on Season 1, and  the Russos said that they just adjusted (and this was part of how the MCU was working back then). Part of me wonders if Joss Whedon allowed Graviton to be sneaked into the show, before deciding to use it himself for the Avengers, but since Joss couldn't really work on the show, because Marvel wanted him to work on AoU, and then he left Marvel (also taking down the show as well, IMO), this just didn't happen. BUT they still used Graviton and it's most likely that Hall (or whoever) will not be in the movies since there is a clear divided between the movies and TV (as of right now). 

As with what was dictated, I do kind of feel like that is the case for some things but not all (and still is and that maybe they do get orders from high up (which would be Loeb and Perlmutter). Most likely I think they got an order to start introducing the Inhumans and to make them more like the mutants/X-Men from the comics, etc...

Edit:

I just want to say that even with the idea that they get dictated on what to do it still doesn't fully explain some of their creative choices over the past 5 seasons, in my opinion. Why kill Trip off when he was a favorite of the fan base at the time? Why hype up the Secret Warriors only to have them be dropped and forgotten about? Why have Simmons fall in love with someone that wasn't Fitz and then have her say, "let's just leave him there on that planet...."? Or why have Deke sold Daisy into slavery? Or make Deke into some kind of person that would not only work with the people that murdered his mother (Simmons and Fitz's supposed future daughter)- have him have a Kree approve Framework business- and almost get the entire last remnants of humanity kill/wipe out? Or why try to redeem Ward? Or why kill off Ward and then have his actor come back so many times? Or why have Fitz torture Daisy? Or why have everything be handwavy and not bother with showing the actual fallout from their actions in a believable and timely manner when the movies (and Netflix series) really don't shy away from this? etc.... 

Edited April 8, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Raja]

1 hour ago, TVSpectator said:

 

 Or why have Deke sold Daisy into slavery? Or make Deke into some kind of person that would not only work with the people that murdered his mother (Simmons and Fitz's supposed future daughter)- have him have a Kree approve Framework business- and almost get the entire last remnants of humanity kill/wipe out? 

 

It was the thematic tie in to Thor Raganarok. Deke did the exact same thing that Valkyrie for her greedy purposes only 

Spoiler

did to Thor.  Only Thor's

actions were not going to cause corporate punishment to the greater community's so there was no justification to stop him like Deke did since Daisy's actions might have meant punishment to an entire level of slaves if she went with her immediate action plan to get to Jemma at any cost.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Raja

[Froippi]

8 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

 

 

 

According to the Russos, during an interview (and this was from my memory) but the AoS showrunners learned about their plans to destroy SHIELD before they worked on Season 1 and/or during the time they were working on Season 1, and  the Russos said that they just adjusted (and this was part of how the MCU was working back then). Part of me wonders if Joss Whedon allowed Graviton to be sneaked into the show, before deciding to use it himself for the Avengers, but since Joss couldn't really work on the show, because Marvel wanted him to work on AoU, and then he left Marvel (also taking down the show as well, IMO), this just didn't happen. BUT they still used Graviton and it's most likely that Hall (or whoever) will not be in the movies since there is a clear divided between the movies and TV (as of right now). 

As with what was dictated, I do kind of feel like that is the case for some things but not all (and still is and that maybe they do get orders from high up (which would be Loeb and Perlmutter). Most likely I think they got an order to start introducing the Inhumans and to make them more like the mutants/X-Men from the comics, etc...

Edit:

I just want to say that even with the idea that they get dictated on what to do it still doesn't fully explain some of their creative choices over the past 5 seasons, in my opinion. Why kill Trip off when he was a favorite of the fan base at the time? Why hype up the Secret Warriors only to have them be dropped and forgotten about? Why have Simmons fall in love with someone that wasn't Fitz and then have her say, "let's just leave him there on that planet...."? Or why have Deke sold Daisy into slavery? Or make Deke into some kind of person that would not only work with the people that murdered his mother (Simmons and Fitz's supposed future daughter)- have him have a Kree approve Framework business- and almost get the entire last remnants of humanity kill/wipe out? Or why try to redeem Ward? Or why kill off Ward and then have his actor come back so many times? Or why have Fitz torture Daisy? Or why have everything be handwavy and not bother with showing the actual fallout from their actions in a believable and timely manner when the movies (and Netflix series) really don't shy away from this? etc.... 

I thought the actor who played Trip was pretty busy at the time so that was the reason behind or that was my understanding of it 

[kitlee625]

12 hours ago, TVSpectator said:

I just want to say that even with the idea that they get dictated on what to do it still doesn't fully explain some of their creative choices over the past 5 seasons, in my opinion. Why kill Trip off when he was a favorite of the fan base at the time? Why hype up the Secret Warriors only to have them be dropped and forgotten about? Why have Simmons fall in love with someone that wasn't Fitz and then have her say, "let's just leave him there on that planet...."? Or why have Deke sold Daisy into slavery? Or make Deke into some kind of person that would not only work with the people that murdered his mother (Simmons and Fitz's supposed future daughter)- have him have a Kree approve Framework business- and almost get the entire last remnants of humanity kill/wipe out? Or why try to redeem Ward? Or why kill off Ward and then have his actor come back so many times? Or why have Fitz torture Daisy? Or why have everything be handwavy and not bother with showing the actual fallout from their actions in a believable and timely manner when the movies (and Netflix series) really don't shy away from this? etc.... 

This nicely summarizes a lot of the problems that I've had with this show. The writers have a real problem with balancing characters and storylines. So many of the characters barely get any development (like Trip). The plots also wind up fighting each other for screen time, because the writers are trying to do so much, and many plots just get unceremonially dumped and forgotten. Secret Warriors is a great example, where we think season 3 is going to be all about them, but on their first and only mission out, Daisy's dream team completely fails and breaks apart. (And Joey disappears entirely.) I wonder if the writers are constantly trying to emulate the "SURPRISE!" from season 1 that completely changed the show from The Scooby Gang solving the case of the week, to Renegades fighting Hydra. But in doing so, the plot becomes a complete mess.

 

The other thing is that the writers want to write these dark things happening, but also don't want to deal with any longterm consequences (Fitz torturing Daisy, Deke selling Daisy, Ward being evil, etc, etc.) and are constantly smashing the reset button.

 

Finally, in lieu of any actual character development, so much of Daisy's plots revolves around her suffering. She must be a hero because bad things keep happening to her -- she's been tortured, kidnapped in every season, and has the weight of multiple deaths on her shoulders (Trip, Lincoln, and Lash all died to add to her angst). But that's not the same as character development.

[TVSpectator]

17 hours ago, Raja said:

It was the thematic tie in to Thor Raganarok. Deke did the exact same thing that Valkyrie for her greedy purposes only 

  Reveal hidden contents

did to Thor.  Only Thor's

actions were not going to cause corporate punishment to the greater community's so there was no justification to stop him like Deke did since Daisy's actions might have meant punishment to an entire level of slaves if she went with her immediate action plan to get to Jemma at any cost.

 

Oh, I must've missed the part where Thor just handwaved her actions away (which he didn't. He was angry at her for a long time during that movie but came over to her because Asgard was in trouble and she was a Valkyrie and technically also an Asgardian. Loki throughout the film was consistently getting the short stick as well, and people were (at times) seem to be a step ahead of him. Also, Valkyrie's character made way more sense and had a very important presence in the film while Deke is just a waste of screen time. Why is he in the past (other than to tell people who his grandparents are?), he has no purpose, he really has no knowledge of the event that is supposed to destroy the world, and when/if the future changes does this mean he just fades away/ceases to exist (like it is going to be like Back to the Future-esque?), etc...? Also, storywise he is worse than Valkyrie and Star-Lord  (pre-Orb) combined. He works with alien overlords that are responsible for killing his mother, he almost gets the entire human race killed, he runs a Kree approve business, even now his character hasn't really changed and he only stills really cares about himself, etc...

10 hours ago, Froippi said:

I thought the actor who played Trip was pretty busy at the time so that was the reason behind or that was my understanding of it 

BJ Britt gave two interviews around the time he left and he claimed that the killing Trip came out of nowhere for him. He never said he was leaving because he got a new job, instead, he said that the producers called him into their office and told him that they were going to kill off his character soon. He said that he was pretty much saddened by it and eventually told the other cast about it and they were also saddened by it as well. 

 

6 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

This nicely summarizes a lot of the problems that I've had with this show. The writers have a real problem with balancing characters and storylines. So many of the characters barely get any development (like Trip). The plots also wind up fighting each other for screen time, because the writers are trying to do so much, and many plots just get unceremonially dumped and forgotten. Secret Warriors is a great example, where we think season 3 is going to be all about them, but on their first and only mission out, Daisy's dream team completely fails and breaks apart. (And Joey disappears entirely.) I wonder if the writers are constantly trying to emulate the "SURPRISE!" from season 1 that completely changed the show from The Scooby Gang solving the case of the week, to Renegades fighting Hydra. But in doing so, the plot becomes a complete mess.

 

The other thing is that the writers want to write these dark things happening, but also don't want to deal with any longterm consequences (Fitz torturing Daisy, Deke selling Daisy, Ward being evil, etc, etc.) and are constantly smashing the reset button.

Finally, in lieu of any actual character development, so much of Daisy's plots revolves around her suffering. She must be a hero because bad things keep happening to her -- she's been tortured, kidnapped in every season, and has the weight of multiple deaths on her shoulders (Trip, Lincoln, and Lash all died to add to her angst). But that's not the same as character development.

3

Yeah, part of me wonders if they wanted to go and tell these "complex" stories with these "complex" characters but never fully committed to it and/o just gave up on it soon afterward. For me it's basically would be if the showrunner of Breaking Bad just decided that once Jesse learned that Walt poisoned a child he just forgot about and just continued to hang out with Walt- under his own free will or something. Because if that had happened I would be sure that many people would be upset that Jesse would just so easily forgive Walt for that kind of shit and honestly, I don't think that Jesse, at the end of the series, forgave Walt 100% either for it as well. Instead, in my opinion, the showrunners of this show (AoS) just want us to "move on" and/or forget about it because that seems to be what the characters are doing. There shouldn't be a 100% forgiveness or even trust in Fitz from Daisy. She was tortured and now Mack shouldn't trust Simmons and Yo-Yo shouldn't either because again, of what Simmons and Yo-Yo did him, etc... Not mentioned that Deke is a waste of a character and has no point being in the current story, storywise at all. Not to mention why should audiences/the main characters even accept him when he just sold one of them into slavery? WTF was that and WTF are people so okay with it?

As with the plots, yes there is a constant hitting of the restart button but also retconning things so whatever they decided to pair up May/Coulson and/or Fitz/Simmons they now can say, "well the characters were always like that...." even though we know they weren't. It's like watching characters from a parallel universe or something and there isn't much explaining being done but just having a forced flashback trying to retconned past seasons worths of what we know of these characters (and I am not talking about turning Ward into a Hydra member. That was something different but last season of Coulson always being in love with May, etc....). Ward's evilness is what made him into a good villain, IMO, but also that he was competent villain (he gets really close and/or achieves his goals)  

Edited April 8, 2018 by TVSpectator