S03.E01: Out of the Shadows

[RachelKM]

On 5/19/2024 at 9:58 AM, chaifan said:

Speaking of Pen's income from LW leaflets, has the show shown what she's doing with that income?  She couldn't spend it without her mother noticing, and wondering where she's getting money from.  She can't open a bank account without word getting around, let alone make regular deposits.  Is it all hidden under floorboards in her bedroom? 

They haven't addressed this.  The show actually used the book explanation of how Pen funneled the money into the household for the ill-gotten funds Lady Featherington obtained from last years scam, i.e. attributing a windfall to a random relative's estate and bequest.  I have no idea how show Pen is using her money.

I suppose should could mingle small amounts into what she is spending here and there.  Lady F is not the most attentive of mothers and could easily forget what Pen should and shouldn't be able to afford or notice Pen has 6 new gowns in her closet when she should only be able to afford 4.  But the bulk of it must still be in her room wherever she put it after Eloise found it. 

[Conotocarious]

I also assumed she used at least some of it on her new wardrobe.

[violet and green]

New Colin is so smarmy. I like the color green so am enjoying so many shades of pale green amongst the background cast, and Pen's new green-gowned looks for the most part - but in her triumphant entrance with her new hairdo and dark green gown (all a bit Jezebel) she had a sparkling green comb in her hair. She threw it off in anger after her chat with George Hamilton/Colin. It landed somewhere in the grass in front of her. Next scene, she is venting her spleen about him to her readers, and also wearing that same sparkling green comb.

These are the continuity errors that haunt me as I watch! Also, I really don't like Pen, as LW or herself, so it is hard to root for her in her quest for love...

[lovett1979]

When last season ended, and it became known that this season would pair Penelope and Colin, I felt that they would need to do a LOT with Colin to make him worthy of her. And specifically to address and overcome the hurt that he caused with his disdainful and callous remarks she overheard last season. I went back and watched that scene and there really is no other way to interpret it. The other guys are teasing him somewhat about having danced with her and he says "[he] would never court her, not in their wildest dreams" with such a tone that implied the idea laughable, and not because they were friends or he felt brotherly towards her or anything. Of course he didn't know she was listening, but dismissing the idea of "courting Penelope Fetherington" as laughable is still incredibly mean.

IMO, the show did not redeem Colin for those words. Pen acts cold toward him and had not responded to his letters. When she tells him what she heard, at first he has no response. He later comes to see her and all he says is that he's upset that she's upset and that he's a "different man than he was last year." Except, the man we saw last year was a petty good man (except that one scene) and so far this year seems a bit rakish. So I don't believe his words can be blamed on him being an ass last year and having reformed himself or something. He then says some lovely things about Penelope and how he feels about her (as a friend) and that's enough for her to forgive him and begin their My Fair Lady/Cyrano plan. I'm sorry, for me, that was not enough.

[salvame]

If you are watching this for period accuracy, like the PBS series Victoria, no wonder there is so much disappointment. Other than Victoria Holt Victorian fiction, I have never read romance novels, so I had no great expectations for this series. I am enjoying it as I do the one soap I watch- entertainment. I care little if things are historically accurate, I am enjoying the ride. 

[Maya]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:05 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

My overarching question is why did Pen continue with LW after Eloise found out and she saw how she really hurt people she loved. It doesn't make sense. 

I don’t understand why she’s not afraid that Eloise will out her, especially if she continues to say nasty things about Bridgertons. 

[andromeda331]

On 5/27/2024 at 5:11 PM, Maya said:

I don’t understand why she’s not afraid that Eloise will out her, especially if she continues to say nasty things about Bridgertons. 

I really don't understand why Eloise hasn't.  

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/23/2024 at 11:49 AM, lovett1979 said:

When last season ended, and it became known that this season would pair Penelope and Colin, I felt that they would need to do a LOT with Colin to make him worthy of her. And specifically to address and overcome the hurt that he caused with his disdainful and callous remarks she overheard last season. I went back and watched that scene and there really is no other way to interpret it. The other guys are teasing him somewhat about having danced with her and he says "[he] would never court her, not in their wildest dreams" with such a tone that implied the idea laughable, and not because they were friends or he felt brotherly towards her or anything. Of course he didn't know she was listening, but dismissing the idea of "courting Penelope Fetherington" as laughable is still incredibly mean.

IMO, the show did not redeem Colin for those words. Pen acts cold toward him and had not responded to his letters. When she tells him what she heard, at first he has no response. He later comes to see her and all he says is that he's upset that she's upset and that he's a "different man than he was last year." Except, the man we saw last year was a petty good man (except that one scene) and so far this year seems a bit rakish. So I don't believe his words can be blamed on him being an ass last year and having reformed himself or something. He then says some lovely things about Penelope and how he feels about her (as a friend) and that's enough for her to forgive him and begin their My Fair Lady/Cyrano plan. I'm sorry, for me, that was not enough.

Mileage varies, but I read Colin's reaction as primarily one of impromptu peer pressure rather than hateful condescension. I empathize and think it rare that a guy hasn't been teased about liking someone "undesireable" and going nuh-uh! 

Although on paper, Pen is not worthy of being courted by the time's standard by someone of Colin's social standing and wealth. Yes, the times' standards are awful, but the facts are the facts. Pen is not attractive by those standards, doesn't have much money, and has no social graces.

That Colin truly values Pen has never been in doubt in my mind, despite what he said. He shows it in pretty much every interaction he has with her. He just didn't see Pen as a potential romantic partner, whether it was because of their childhood closeness, her social/financial standing, or what, until jealousy and other factors came to play.

I think it's more a question of whether Pen/LW is worthy of Colin, given what she has done to him and his family. Or maybe another way to look at it is that they both deserve each other for being as two-faced as they are. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Mileage varies, but I read Colin's reaction as primarily one of impromptu peer pressure rather than hateful condescension. I empathize and think it rare that a guy hasn't been teased about liking someone "undesireable" and going nuh-uh! 

That's how I took it too. 
Fortunately today this type of behavior is no longer generally acceptable. 
I think making fun of people's appearances became unacceptable the same time cigarette smoke did.
Okay.
It still happens all the time on social media.
And now even in places where it might not have in the past.
Which might have been the inspiration for including in this script.
Or was Colin mostly dissing Pen's lack of dowry? 
 
Does Colin know Pen heard the unkind words he said about her? I can't recall.

This Colin/Pen thing reminds me of some Jane Austen plots. Maybe B plots.

Edited June 6 by shapeshifter

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Mileage varies, but I read Colin's reaction as primarily one of impromptu peer pressure rather than hateful condescension. I empathize and think it rare that a guy hasn't been teased about liking someone "undesireable" and going nuh-uh! 

Although on paper, Pen is not worthy of being courted by the time's standard by someone of Colin's social standing and wealth. Yes, the times' standards are awful, but the facts are the facts. Pen is not attractive by those standards, doesn't have much money, and has no social graces.

That Colin truly values Pen has never been in doubt in my mind, despite what he said. He shows it in pretty much every interaction he has with her. He just didn't see Pen as a potential romantic partner, whether it was because of their childhood closeness, her social/financial standing, or what, until jealousy and other factors came to play.

I think it's more a question of whether Pen/LW is worthy of Colin, given what she has done to him and his family. Or maybe another way to look at it is that they both deserve each other for being as two-faced as they are. 

Nicola Coughlin would have been considered attractive during the time period.  The concept of fat=unattractive is a 20th century one that is still prevalent today.  Back in the 1800s, plump was considered ideal.  Pen's non-size 0 body is an issue in the books, but that's because they were written in a time where thin is ideal.  

[Orcinus orca]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does Colin know Pen heard the unkind words he said about her? I can't recall.

No, not at the time he said them.

Edited June 6 by Orcinus orca
additional thoughts on timing

[Kirsty]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

 
Does Colin know Pen heard the unkind words he said about her? I can't recall.

She tells him in this episode that she overheard those words.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

She tells him in this episode that she overheard those words.

Ah. Thanks.

Too many other things on my mind and too many episodes released at once for my mind and not enough time to google-fu it.

[Orcinus orca]

Are the dances portrayed in the shows ones that were actually danced at that time?  Or were they made up to support the series? 

They seem so intricate, how in the world did everyone learn all of the steps back then if they are real?  I kind of wish we got more than random shots, I would love to see one dance all the way through!

[Absolom]

The dances in the prior seasons were authentic or reasonably so.  I haven't started this season.  There was a reason for dance being on everyone in society's educational curriculum.  

[quarks]

5 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

Are the dances portrayed in the shows ones that were actually danced at that time?  Or were they made up to support the series? 

They seem so intricate, how in the world did everyone learn all of the steps back then if they are real?  I kind of wish we got more than random shots, I would love to see one dance all the way through!

London had various Dance Academies where people could learn the popular dances (the waltz, the quadrille, and so on.) Richer folk, like the Bridgertons, could hire a dancing master to teach their kids the popular dance steps, and people out in the country could either visit London, or hire a dancing master to come out and teach them. 

Most of the dances on the show seem accurate enough - though I don't think any of these balls would have had quite as many waltzes in this time period. That was a relatively new and rather scandalous dance only introduced to the ton more or less during the time of this show (1812/1813). In 1812 - right before Daphne's debut - it was not allowed at balls in the otherwise notoriously permissive Devonshire House.

In 1813, Lord Byron wrote a poem about what he called the "not too lawfully begotten Waltz," and in 1814, Alexander I, the Russian Emperor, actually DANCED it while visiting London, but even after all this many people still considered the waltz kinda indecent and scandalous. Lord Byron having to go into exile in 1816 probably didn't help much.

Thus why people in Jane Austen films rarely waltz - they do quadrilles and country dances and things like that because THEIR dances are RESPECTABLE even if that Wickham dude is around.

Bridgerton, however, seems a lot less interested in historical accuracy and a lot more interested in "what dances would work with the camera and allow Our Couples to spend a lot of time staring into each other's eyes"? 

So we've had a lot of waltzes, along with the more respectable dances when the couple needs to have their conversation interrupted at interesting moments. 

But that quibble aside, and some things they are doing with quadrilles to allow the camera to move in between people, the dancing seems more historically accurate than many other things on this show?

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

 

But that quibble aside, and some things they are doing with quadrilles to allow the camera to move in between people, the dancing seems more historically accurate than many other things on this show?

Inaccuracies like Cressida’s sleeves, who should be making their OWN debuts soon!  Whether Queen C’s wigs would pick any of them as the diamond remains to be seen.  

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, PRgal said:

Inaccuracies like Cressida’s sleeves, who should be making their OWN debuts soon!  Whether Queen C’s wigs would pick any of them as the diamond remains to be seen.  

Weren't big sleeves popular in the 1830s?

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Weren't big sleeves popular in the 1830s?

But we’re in circa 1815 or so?

[Colorado David]

Nicola Coughlan does exasperated so well, I just love her and her facial expressions.