S08.12: Rocking the Boat

[Dirtybubble]

Quote

Carl and Lindsay disagree on their definitions of support as West is questioned on his intentions with Ciara; Jesse hits a breaking point with his upcoming scan looming; Amanda expresses her desire to do something for herself.

 

[b2H]

And that right there, the kitchen convo between Lindsey and Carl, is EXACTLY why they shouldn’t even THINK about getting married.

Lindsey makes it all about her and denies all her support to Carl.  Carl is really struggling and she cares more about how it affects her than caring for him. 

Lindsey is the least self-aware person I know.

Next, she will go to the others and cry about how awful he is.

Edited May 10 by b2H

[FlyingEgret]

I love the hat Lindsay was wearing during the kitchen argument. Probably not what the producers were hoping would be a focal point. Also not a good sign that there are so many arguments they have to be labeled...

[swankie]

Carl seems literally afraid of Lindsay.  He says he's afraid of hurting her but I think he's afraid of getting his head bitten off every time he has a conversation with her.  She's a shrew!

Kyle and Amanda are fighting about things they should have discussed with each other way before they decided to get married.  

Edited May 10 by swankie
Added another thought.

[dancingdreamer]

Kyle wasn't  being  fair to Amanda. She didn't  say she was leaving  Loverboy , just that she wanted/needed something  else. I understand  that.

I love how Lindsay  twists things, or what was said,  when she's speaking  to the other women. 

The boat ride looked  fun, but Paige needs to step back from West imho, she can be a great friend  to Ciara, without  laying  out options to West.

I feel  sorry for Jesse, finding  a lump. It's terrifying when you've gone through cancer, and what that entails.

[ZettaK]

I think that Carl was trying to justify his decision not to get married by discussing his relationship with his parents, and the cast members (repeatedly) in order for them to justify it for him. Anybody would be angry if their fiance canceled the wedding a couple of months before it was supposed to take place, not only Lindsey. As for Lindsey, why would somebody in our times be so obsessed to get married for the sake of getting married, to just anybody? And then ignore all the signs? 

I realize that Kyle was under stress because his business was in debt for some months (and it is a risky sector with so many alcoholic beverages in the market), but Amanda didn't deserve the verbal attack. She didn't say she would abandon Loverboy. Kyle also claimed she didn't work hard as it was....

Ciara was rude to call Jesse trashbag. I wonder if she thought Jesse influenced West negatively about relationships because they hang out together in New York. 

The reunion filmed a couple of days ago, and Andy Cohen showed Kyle's (cut) mullet on his Watch What Happens Live Bravo show last night. Carl and Jesse were the guests. Carl said he made the right decision (about the wedding).

 

Edited May 11 by ZettaK

[b2H]

I really truly hope that Lindsey self-assesses or gets some really good therapeutic help.  If her best friend won’t even marry her because of the way she acts, who will?

I fell the same way about Kyle.  Amanda gave up everything to work with him on Loverboy.  He is minimizing her needs to have a success of her own, while she is suggesting she only wants to get something started and not abandon him.

Truly both Lindsey and Kyle have serious personality flaws that make for great reality TV, but don’t work so well for real life and marriage.

[bosawks]

I'm beginning to think that the ancillary truth to Kyle's (in)famous "Summer should be fun" is that marriage should be a soul destroying cycle of miscommunication, blindness, and despair.

Yikes.

[angelamh66]

Kyle's reaction to Amanda bringing up doing something else was truly infuriating. He expect her to care as much as he does about Loverboy because he says he is doing it for them and their future children. 

However, you best believe if they were to divorce he would be minimizing her importance in the business so that she wouldn't get much of a cut of it. Kyle complains she doesn't do much for the business, but then acts like it won't survive without her. Which is it buddy?? 

 

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, angelamh66 said:

Kyle's reaction to Amanda bringing up doing something else was truly infuriating. He expect her to care as much as he does about Loverboy because he says he is doing it for them and their future children. 

 

 

I am feeling the opposite, I think he IS doing this for their future, it’s their livelihood.  If my husband started a successful business, with me as his partner, and it got to a point of danger (losing 1 million) I’d do everything I could to make it a success.  Even if it wasn’t my passion.  Mostly because in order for the family to invest in my own passion project, I’d need the family to have funds.  

[IntrovertRed]

Carl and Kyle both suck.

Carl is trying to get reactions from Lindsay and seems to be getting annoyed when she’s not getting ‘activated’.  He’s telling her that he’s not going to do what his parents think they want him to do, but then he runs to Kyle and constantly is saying how awful Lindsay is. Yes, Lindsay is a lot, but he knew that when he started dating her and proposed to her.  I truly think he’s been gaslighting her in conversations that weren’t in front of the cameras like when they were in the cars back to the house.  

Kyle is an asshole to his wife and calls her lazy. He didn’t listen to one word that Amanda told him. She was being perfectly reasonable, and he just thinks only about himself.  Amanda did all the branding for Loverboy, he’s lucky to have had her help. And Kyle saying that he can’t help Amanda ‘adult’. Kyle, you’re the biggest manchild ever.

Why would Carl want to return to that kind of environment? The truth is, he doesn’t know what to do and just will fall back to what is comfortable and easy no how matter how much he hated working at Loverboy. I don’t think Carl will ever get married, though sometimes I think he’d really prefer to marry Kyle. Hope Loverboy doesn’t fold, because what will Carl do then? Kyle wants to be a DJ, so at least he’s got a backup. /s  Seriously, has he EVER mentioned wanting to be a DJ?

Amanda, get the fuck away from Kyle before you have any kids. If your husband is saying that about you while on camera, what does he say when it’s just you two?

Really liking Jesse much more than I initially did. I felt so much for him when he and West were having their conversation.

Edited May 11 by IntrovertRed

[ZettaK]

18 hours ago, b2H said:

I really fell the same way about Kyle.  Amanda gave up everything to work with him on Loverboy.  He is minimizing her needs to have a success of her own, while she is suggesting she only wants to get something started and not abandon him.

Truly both Lindsey and Kyle have serious personality flaws that make for great reality TV, but don’t work so well for marriage.

Kyle told Amanda she was lazy (=she doesn't work hard enough), and that if she were a regular employee (meaning not his wife), she would be fired. 

He is fun to be friends with, but not exactly a good partner. But, as I mentioned above, he was really worried about the business- spring and summer are the seasons for those kind of drinks to sell more, and the company had big losses. 

Carl was on Andy Cohen's Watch What Happens Live on Thursday, and he seemed to be happy to be single. I don't think he really wanted to get married, and I'm not sure if it was only because his bride would be Lindsey. And I'm not defending Lindsey who we know is not a great person.

Edited May 11 by ZettaK

[Marley]

Carl is gaslighting Lindsay so much it’s crazy. Lindsay is crazy of course but he’s so obviously gaslighting her I now get why she felt blindsided maybe.

He’s also always such a bitch and always overwhelmed.

Just fucking say you are going to work and do loverboy and stop being such a vague bitch Carl.

Honestly Carl is a little bitch.

Carl was a grown man who quit Loverboy on his own.

Carl has been failing at careers the whole show. He’s lucky Kyle brings him in on Loverboy.

I’m over the West Ciara stuff kind of lol.

Kyle is such a baby. Everything has to be about him. He gets so triggered. Didn’t him and Amanda basically start Loverboy together or she’s been there since the beginning but she does not get any credit.

Aw Jesse and West glad West is there for him.

[b2H]

For me, having dated a recovering alcoholic for nearly ten years, Carl isn’t far enough in his recovery to bring another person into his life.  He is struggling to understand who he is without booze.  Lindsey isn’t helping with her harping at him constantly.

Amanda also needs to get out and pick up the pieces of her life without Kyle.  Everyone was warning her in the run up to the wedding that this wasn’t a good idea, the marriage.

[heatherchandler]

Amanda constantly saying “let’s GO!” is so annoying.  My teenagers say that. 

[peachmangosteen]

On 5/10/2024 at 11:31 PM, IntrovertRed said:

Carl and Kyle both suck.

Carl is trying to get reactions from Lindsay and seems to be getting annoyed when she’s not getting ‘activated’.  He’s telling her that he’s not going to do what his parents think they want him to do, but then he runs to Kyle and constantly is saying how awful Lindsay is. Yes, Lindsay is a lot, but he knew that when he started dating her and proposed to her.  I truly think he’s been gaslighting her in conversations that weren’t in front of the cameras like when they were in the cars back to the house.  

Kyle is an asshole to his wife and calls her lazy. He didn’t listen to one word that Amanda told him. She was being perfectly reasonable, and he just thinks only about himself.  Amanda did all the branding for Loverboy, he’s lucky to have had her help. And Kyle saying that he can’t help Amanda ‘adult’. Kyle, you’re the biggest manchild ever.

Why would Carl want to return to that kind of environment? The truth is, he doesn’t know what to do and just will fall back to what is comfortable and easy no how matter how much he hated working at Loverboy. I don’t think Carl will ever get married, though sometimes I think he’d really prefer to marry Kyle. Hope Loverboy doesn’t fold, because what will Carl do then? Kyle wants to be a DJ, so at least he’s got a backup. /s  Seriously, has he EVER mentioned wanting to be a DJ?

Amanda, get the fuck away from Kyle before you have any kids. If your husband is saying that about you while on camera, what does he say when it’s just you two?

Really liking Jesse much more than I initially did. I felt so much for him when he and West were having their conversation.

 

On 5/11/2024 at 4:57 AM, Marley said:

Carl is gaslighting Lindsay so much it’s crazy. Lindsay is crazy of course but he’s so obviously gaslighting her I now get why she felt blindsided maybe.

He’s also always such a bitch and always overwhelmed.

Just fucking say you are going to work and do loverboy and stop being such a vague bitch Carl.

Honestly Carl is a little bitch.

Carl was a grown man who quit Loverboy on his own.

Carl has been failing at careers the whole show. He’s lucky Kyle brings him in on Loverboy.

I’m over the West Ciara stuff kind of lol.

Kyle is such a baby. Everything has to be about him. He gets so triggered. Didn’t him and Amanda basically start Loverboy together or she’s been there since the beginning but she does not get any credit.

Aw Jesse and West glad West is there for him.

+1 to both of these posts.

[snarts]

It's apparent to me that Kyle doesn't respect Amanda's work or work ethic. Yet he's expecting her to stay with Loverboy so he doesn't have to hire someone to replace her. That's an untenable situation for anyone, let alone your spouse. Maybe Amanda returning to the corporate world would give Kyle the perspective he needs. At their current course, he's about to lose both his Creative Director and his wife. 

Carl & Lindsay are both awful people. Their engagement was like a F U to everyone who doubted them and now it's like a game of chicken on which will call the other one's bluff first. They both need therapy. 

Loved Paige calling Craig to tell him what the physic said. I know she was talking about changing apartments when this aired but she only recently moved. Only brief glimpses on social media but it appears much larger with maybe some prewar details. Guessing that's their NYC base and they'll keep the Charleston house and split time between the two, like they do now. No change required until if/when they have school aged kids.

 

Edited May 12 by snarts

[ZettaK]

I like Jesse more now, as well, but he was a yes man to Carl on Andy Cohen's Watch What Happens Live, something I didn't like too much.

Kyle and Danielle don't respect Amanda, and they made it more than obvious. 

I wonder if Kyle's business is following the reality show product route- successful enough in the beginning, but not enough later on. 

Edited May 13 by ZettaK

[Dirtybubble]

7 hours ago, ZettaK said:

I like Jesse more now, as well, but he was a yes man to Carl on Andy Cohen's Watch What Happens Live, something I didn't like too much.

 

Well he's the new kid on the block and this is his first time on WWHL so maybe he felt he should just let Carl and Andy take the lead and he'll just nod and agree.  I would assume it's very intimidating up there.  

I think Andy asked Jesse if there was anyone who wasn't inviting or friendly to him on the cast and he said Danielle.  Not surprising.  It's funny that they aren't really showing anymore of the Danielle/Paige conflict so she's faded back into the background.  🤷‍♀️

[red12]

On 5/10/2024 at 1:23 PM, angelamh66 said:

Kyle's reaction to Amanda bringing up doing something else was truly infuriating. He expect her to care as much as he does about Loverboy because he says he is doing it for them and their future children. 

However, you best believe if they were to divorce he would be minimizing her importance in the business so that she wouldn't get much of a cut of it. Kyle complains she doesn't do much for the business, but then acts like it won't survive without her. Which is it buddy?? 

 

You answered your question, unfortunately. His answer depends on his goal. I cringe to hear Amanda minimize her contributions because they will be used against her in a court of law later. Kyle's team will say even she didn't believe she was the reason for Loverboy's success. 

I also believe that he knows deep inside that if Amanda gets anything of her own, it will soar and the truth of who's the smartest will be revealed. Hearing from her that other people are saying out loud how much they know she is behind the success of Loverboy sent him over the edge. He thought it was a secret only he and maybe her parents knew. If she figures it out and acts accordingly, his power position in the marriage will be threatened.

It's all in his mind. She has no intention of minimizing Kyle, but he just might ruin things himself.

[Vivigirl10]

Kyle calling Amanda a bitch was horrifying.  That is never, never, ever o.k.  Those two don't love each other....they don't even LIKE each other.   Yet Amanda is steamrolling ahead on her quest to have a baby?  Girlfriend, the myth that a baby brings you closer together was debunked in the 1950's.  A child is only going to make it that much worse between the two of them.  She'll have a whole new list of reasons to hate him and he'll feel even more ignored by her than he does now.  

I actually think Lindsay and Carl both had decent points in their fight.  Lindsay doesn't feel that she can just give blanket support to every opportunity he brings to the table and I think simply saying "but you weren't happy at Loverboy, why would you want to go back" is a valid thing to do.  Carl wants some support and enthusiasm from her about his opportunities but is only met with criticism, negativity and naysaying.  If they knew how to communicate, they could have both heard each other out.  But they don't communicate and that's only one of many reasons they didn't work out.   

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, red12 said:

 

I also believe that he knows deep inside that if Amanda gets anything of her own, it will soar and the truth of who's the smartest will be revealed. Hearing from her that other people are saying out loud how much they know she is behind the success of Loverboy sent him over the edge. He thought it was a secret only he and maybe her parents knew. If she figures it out and acts accordingly, his power position in the marriage will be threatened.

 

Amanda is the laziest person I’ve ever seen.  Nothing she will do will soar, she’s NOT a go-getter.  

She isn’t behind the success of loverboy, she “kept it afloat” when it was losing money by having another job to pay the bills.  

She’s only pretending to want “something of her own” because the other girls are making her feel like she needs it.  She wants a family, she should focus on that, it is ok to want to be a mom.

[bosawks]

Working for Kyle seemed to drain the lifeforce from the 2 people we know worked for Kyle.

So it makes perfect sense for Carl to want to go back.

At least Carl's consistent in his life choices and I feel like Amanda joined a cult as opposed to marrying a partner.

[red12]

8 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Amanda is the laziest person I’ve ever seen.  Nothing she will do will soar, she’s NOT a go-getter.  

She isn’t behind the success of loverboy, she “kept it afloat” when it was losing money by having another job to pay the bills.  

She’s only pretending to want “something of her own” because the other girls are making her feel like she needs it.  She wants a family, she should focus on that, it is ok to want to be a mom.

What I read is fear more than pretense.

I also don't trust the ease of the "laziness" label of human behavior so, that could be part of where we won't ever align. For example, being a mom isn't something someone who won't put in work aspires to unless they are possibly involved in the sort of wealth where they don't interact with children after giving birth. 

As others have stated, Kyle doesn't even believe the lazy label because if he did, he would be happy for her to stop working for Loverboy and stop flying off the handle at the thought of her own endeavor or even having a child.

[heatherchandler]

2 hours ago, red12 said:

What I read is fear more than pretense.

I also don't trust the ease of the "laziness" label of human behavior so, that could be part of where we won't ever align. For example, being a mom isn't something someone who won't put in work aspires to unless they are possibly involved in the sort of wealth where they don't interact with children after giving birth. 

As others have stated, Kyle doesn't even believe the lazy label because if he did, he would be happy for her to stop working for Loverboy and stop flying off the handle at the thought of her own endeavor or even having a child.

Disagree for sure, I know a lot of lazy moms.  Hiring someone to get the kids off to school so I could chill in bed and scroll my phone- I’ve done that.  I don’t anymore because they are older and easier.  But I go through lazy streaks myself.  If I could lay in bed all day at a summer house I probably would.
Laziness is a spectrum, imo.  
 

I think she likes the idea of being a boss and creator but I could never see her putting in the actual work it takes to run a business successfully, even if it was her “passion.”

So I watched the after show and apparently Kyle ACTUALLY wants to be a dj, he wasn’t joking!  He is going to dj “school” and everything!  🤣🤣🤣  Like Paige said, “immediate ick.”

Edited May 14 by heatherchandler

[snarts]

If Amanda were that lazy, Kyle wouldn't be so scared about her leaving Loverboy.

Not everyone lives to grind. Let's be clear, she's likely making >$250k from the show and even more on social media. She's more than pulling her weight financially.

Working for Kyle is not helping their marriage. When Amanda says she wants something for herself, I interpret that as she longs for some distance, which is understandable. It's a rare couple that can happily spend 24/7 together.

[DrSparkles]

I don’t give a damn if KARL IS GAsLIGHTING LINDSEY. She is wretched.

ETA: sorry for formatting, ipad was acting weird 

Edited May 15 by DrSparkles

[whydoievencare]

On 5/10/2024 at 4:09 AM, ZettaK said:

Kyle also claimed she didn't work hard as it was....

ZettaK - I liked all of your post!  This part above - I think Kyle makes Amanda feel as if she's never doing enough - which has undermined her confidence.  Apparently he really needs her, but it's just not in him to praise her.  He seems to have given  Karl a lot more grace.  I'm not a Kyle fan (or a Lindsay fan, or a Karl fan, or a Danielle fan) and he seems to constantly make her feel as if she's less than. (ie. Drinking til the wee hours with strangers rather than be at home with her.)

On 5/14/2024 at 11:38 AM, snarts said:

It's a rare couple that can happily spend 24/7 together.

Especially when half of that couple is Kyle!

[FozzyBear]

33 minutes ago, whydoievencare said:

ZettaK - I liked all of your post!  This part above - I think Kyle makes Amanda feel as if she's never doing enough - which has undermined her confidence.  Apparently he really needs her, but it's just not in him to praise her.  He seems to have given  Karl a lot more grace.  I'm not a Kyle fan (or a Lindsay fan, or a Karl fan, or a Danielle fan) and he seems to constantly make her feel as if she's less than. (ie. Drinking til the wee hours with strangers rather than be at home with her.)

Especially when half of that couple is Kyle!

I don’t think I would have made it past the first date with Kyle. He’s a lot. And I don’t have the energy to pay as much attention to him as he wants. Plus he and Amanda have never actually been happy. From Day One they’ve been in a constant cycle of fight and make up. I have no idea why they even went on a second date, let alone got married. They’ve never been kind to each other or spoken highly of each other or even seemed very relaxed around each other. It’s always been a cycle of fighting, complaining  to everyone about their relationship, make up, drink together, fight again. The only time they ever seem happy together is in the tiny window when they’re partying together but haven’t gotten into a fight yet. So maybe 10 minutes every other Friday?

[b2H]

Watching the re-broadcast tonight, the sequence with the 'psychic'/card-reader, the whole crystal sequence was entirely bogus.  It didn't take any kind of a trained eye to see she was moving her wrist and then her arm to put the pendulum in motion.

Phony, phony, phony.