S03.E10: Isaac’s Wedding

[Lugal]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:05 PM, Skooma said:

Eh, Flower is a tad forgetful of what happens a few seconds previously.  She was off to stick it to the man on their behalf then forgot why she was up there and then remembered there was a nice wedding to attend.

And on rewatch, I caught they said there was an hour until the ceremony, so that gave Flower plenty of time to forget why they went back upstairs.

[Johannah]

I figure they just didn't show the Puritan's face because they haven't cast any extras for next season, yet, not because they'll cast some big star.  I don't think I've seen any of the cast before this show, and don't remember any guest actors that I've seen before, so I expect her to just be some other actor I don't know.  Not that that is a problem.

I really didn't care for the Isaac/Nigel storyline, so I'm meh about the breakup.  I only like Isaac in small doses and don't care for Nigel.  Maybe if they think Isaac is gone for good, they'll spend that money on the house or restaurant.

Glad Pete had some fun and glad he made it home.

Wish the final ep of the season had more of the other ghosts.

[kav]

I'm interested in what Isaac's and Patience history is.  She would have seen Isaac both living and dead and had about 130ish years of history of them dead together.

[BMGepinniw]

On 5/3/2024 at 10:10 AM, appositival said:

Thor and Flower don't deserve Nancy.

 

I agree.  I wasn't surprised by Thor doing that; however, I didn't expect Flower to also ditch Nancy.  The wedding wasn't going to begin right away, so she could have joined them to advocate for the basement ghosts to be invited.  At the very least, Nancy could have then refused to leave when the ceremony was going to start.  

[shapeshifter]

46 minutes ago, Johannah said:

I figure they just didn't show the Puritan's face because they haven't cast any extras for next season, yet, not because they'll cast some big star.

These 2 are not mutually exclusive. 
Anyway, if the role is not too big, a well-known comic could be fun.

[Chit Chat]

22 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Anyway, if the role is not too big, a well-known comic could be fun.

Although not a comedienne, I'm picturing Winona Ryder in the role (kind of the dark, Goth-type character she played in Beetlejuice.)  

[proserpina65]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:41 PM, Bastet said:

Yep.  Once he had a reaction, Stripper DJ asked Jay if there was crab in it.  Jay said yes, more precisely crab stock, as he finds a splash of it adds to the umami flavor of the guacamole.

Way to ruin guac, Jay.  I love you, but come on.

On 5/3/2024 at 6:05 PM, Skooma said:

He was preparing the food for ghosts to smell.  Not for people to eat.

Then why waste an expensive ingredient like crab just for the umami?  Sometimes the dynamic doesn't make sense, but I just roll with it because I love the show.

[Chit Chat]

5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Then why waste an expensive ingredient like crab just for the umami?  Sometimes the dynamic doesn't make sense, but I just roll with it because I love the show.

Maybe Jay planned on eating it all!  

[kathyk2]

14 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Maybe Jay planned on eating it all!  

I think Jay can't budget. He's spent money on new sneakers and a new television. He wasted ingredients on cake for the ghosts. I wonder if he grew up with more money than Sam? I think this could cause arguments between them since Sam is the only one earning money right now.

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Maybe Jay planned on eating it all!  

Also, as an aspiring gourmet chef, it's an opportunity for Jay to test his "splash of [crab stock] really deepens the umami of the guacamole" recipe, since differently sourced avocados or other ingredients could vary the results.  

As for Jay eating all of it, he might want to see if the flavor, consistency, etc. holds up the next day.

But do we know anything about:

3 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

…if [Jay] grew up with more money…

Regardless, I've observed that just as often, those who grew up without money will tend to spend what they do have, with varying results, just as the "Haves" do with their much greater options for experimentation.
At least Jay isn't running off to Vegas or making payments on a yacht.

[kathyk2]

47 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Also, as an aspiring gourmet chef, it's an opportunity for Jay to test his "splash of [crab stock] really deepens the umami of the guacamole" recipe, since differently sourced avocados or other ingredients could vary the results.  

As for Jay eating all of it, he might want to see if the flavor, consistency, etc. holds up the next day.

But do we know anything about:

Regardless, I've observed that just as often, those who grew up without money will tend to spend what they do have, with varying results, just as the "Haves" do with their much greater options for experimentation.
At least Jay isn't running off to Vegas or making payments on a yacht.

I love the ghosts but I hope the longer season gives more focus to Sam and Jay. I want to see Jay's parents and we know Sam's mom is dead but we don't know about her dad.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:52 PM, kav said:

I'm interested in what Isaac's and Patience history is.  She would have seen Isaac both living and dead and had about 130ish years of history of them dead together.

Yes, perhaps (despite being a Puritan) she was interested in him and he kept making excuses.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

As for Jay eating all of it, he might want to see if the flavor, consistency, etc. holds up the next day.

I generally agree, but does any guacamole hold up the next day?  No matter how much citrus you add or how well you wrap it, it always turns brownish.

On 5/4/2024 at 7:31 PM, BMGepinniw said:

Thank you Browncoat and phalange for filling in what Sam was telling Jay.  I rewatched the episode last night, and your comments helped me figure it out without replaying it a couple of times.  But I'll blame it on my ears rather than Sam's mumbled whisper.  😉

Subtitles were how I was able to understand it.  My hearing is fine, but without subtitles, I don't always catch what they're saying when I watch tv shows.

Edited May 7 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:28 PM, proserpina65 said:

Guac should be avocado, olive oil, salt, lemon or lime and peppers.

I've had it with chopped red onions and/or chopped tomato.  I don't love raw onions, but it's fine. The tomato is a good addition as long as the avocado predominates.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/3/2024 at 5:49 PM, Lugal said:

Although next season I hope we get a flashback of Isaac, Thor, Sassapis and Patience in the hole.

Agreed!

[proserpina65]

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I generally agree, but does any guacamole hold up the next day?  No matter how much citrus you add or how well you wrap it, it always turns brownish.

That has never stopped me from eating guacamole the next day.

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I've had it with chopped red onions and/or chopped tomato.  I don't love raw onions, but it's fine. The tomato is a good addition as long as the avocado predominates.

Yeah, I remembered those later and also cilantro.  I usually use a pre-made pico de gallo I get at the local grocery store since it's fresh and spares me from the chopping.  But still, a limited number of simple ingredients and absolutely no need for nasty crab stock at all.

[South]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:52 PM, proserpina65 said:

Way to ruin guac, Jay.  I love you, but come on.

Then why waste an expensive ingredient like crab just for the umami?  Sometimes the dynamic doesn't make sense, but I just roll with it because I love the show.

Crab stock can be very economical and also allows for full use of the animal.  It can be made by finely straining the liquid left behind after a crab boil, or by boiling the nearly picked clean shells after steaming the crabs.  Sealed tightly, it freezes great.  Still…in guacamole?  

16 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I've had it with chopped red onions and/or chopped tomato.  I don't love raw onions, but it's fine. The tomato is a good addition as long as the avocado predominates.

A couple of years ago, I saw Alex guarnaschelli say that she likes guacamole with red wine vinegar as the acid rather that citrus juice.  We tried it the next day, and it was fabulous.  Just add a little salt and powdered garlic.

[ofmd]

I'm a bit disappointed (and poor Nigel!), but to be fair, everyone else was having fun and sex while, as far as we know, they didn't even kiss... ever... plus they paired Isaac with a pretty one-note side character they never bothered to flesh out. We know more about the Australian stripper than about Nigel. I used to think it was because they were the gay couple on an American tv show. Wait, I still totally think that, so what point am I trying to make... Anyhoo... If they want to get Isaac and his reliable 'ox' back together, they'll need some convincing to do.

That stripper/ dj was nice but also... boyfriend, Isaac!

Not sure what the point of Pete's superpower was (a get-out card for the price of disappearing?), but he did get a nice holiday plus I try not to question the ghost logic on this show.

I really enjoyed the revenge of the basement dwellers though. Isaac deserved it, and so would all the main ghosts for treating them like... well... basement dwellers.

I'm not sure how they'll make a Puritan character funny but I'm interested in finding out.

Edited May 8 by ofmd

[Annber03]

21 minutes ago, ofmd said:

I'm a bit disappointed (and poor Nigel!), but to be fair, everyone else was having fun and sex while, as far as we know, they didn't even kiss... ever... plus they paired Isaac with a pretty one-note side character they never bothered to flesh out. We know more about the Australian stripper than about Nigel. I used to think it was because they were the gay couple on an American tv show. Wait, I still totally think that, so what point am I trying to make... Anyhoo... If they want to get Isaac and his reliable 'ox' back together, they'll need some convincing to do.

They did get to share a kiss in the Christmas episode, there was a whole big to do around it. But yeah, I definitely think the fact this show is on CBS is the biggest reason why we don't get the kind of physical interactions between them that the straight couples get. Which is total bullshit, of course, but unfortunately that's what happens when your show is on a network that caters to a generally more conservative-skewing audience. The show itself would be fine with that kind of portrayal, but yeah, I think they've got to try and work around those knds of network limitations. 

I do agree it would be nice to learn more about Nigel as a character, both in regards to his relationship and history with Isaac and as an individual. I'm hopeful that we'll get to see some of that at some point - maybe this whole storyline with them will be an opportunity to start delving into his perspective of things a little more. 

[ofmd]

Yes, I'd like them to find some storylines for him that are nothing to do with Isaac. But ofc I assume the gang has to first rescue him from Patience.

I forgot to mention that I really loved the lampshading when Sam said about the guard he is "totally peripheral and doesn't matter," lol.

Edited May 8 by ofmd

[Mabinogia]

Actually, if they had Isaac missing for a couple eps (he could have his own side story with Patience) it would be a good opportunity to see Nigel without Isaac. I like both Nigel and Isaac and I want them together but I do agree there is something missing in their pairing. 

While the lack of physical intimacy could be network based I do think it makes sense for their characters too. Nigel is a refined Brit who isn't given to public displays of emotion and Isaac has been closeted for hundreds of years and from the same era of not really showing displays of emotion in public. 

I do kind of hope that Isaac is trapped with Patience for at least 2 eps. It's not that I don't want him around, no one can gasp like our Isaac, it's that I'm curious how his absence would affect the group. 

As for pairings, the one I'd be least sad to see end is Thor and Flower. They have some sweet moments, but for the most part that one feels the most like "love the one you're with" arrangement. 

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

While the lack of physical intimacy could be network based I do think it makes sense for their characters too. Nigel is a refined Brit who isn't given to public displays of emotion and Isaac has been closeted for hundreds of years and from the same era of not really showing displays of emotion in public. 

Yeah, I do think that is part of it, too, It is funny with Nigel, 'cause on the one hand he can be very emotional, in the sense that he's prone to being rather temperamental and making it very clear when he's displeased about something. but on the other hand, indeed, when it comes to more iaffectionate emotions he does seem to be a little more resrved, the way Isaac is. And yet, at the same time, he also longs for more physical intimacy between them. So yeah, it's an interesting contrast with his character in that way. 

Quote

I do kind of hope that Isaac is trapped with Patience for at least 2 eps. It's not that I don't want him around, no one can gasp like our Isaac, it's that I'm curious how his absence would affect the group. 

Yeah, I hope this storyline lasts a couple episodes as well. Partly because of what you said, about seeing how the others react, and partly because it's such an intriguing setup, and I'd be very interested to see how Isaac's time with Patience would play out. I feel like this could be a really fun, interesting storyline for Isaac, in terms of what it could reveal about him as a character and what kinds of things he could learn and take away from this situation. 

Quote

As for pairings, the one I'd be least sad to see end is Thor and Flower. They have some sweet moments, but for the most part that one feels the most like "love the one you're with" arrangement. 

I've said that I like these two, myself, but I will say that I do think it's interesting that out of all the ghost couples, the only ones whose story started before they both died were Isaac and Nigel. Mind, we have no idea if Nigel noticed Isaac when alive in the same sort of way Isaac noticed him, but the fact remains that their paths did cross before they both died, by virtue of them winding up being on the same property while on opposing sides of a war. 

Thor and Flower, on the other hand, Thor was already dead and Flower was alive (not for much longer at that point, obviously, but still...:p), when their paths first crossed, and Hetty and Trevor were both already ghosts when they got together. I don't know if that's supposed to be something to read into more deeply or anything like that, mind, but it is an interesting detail and difference to note between all the respective ghost pairings all the same. 

Edited May 8 by Annber03

[chitowngirl]

2 hours ago, ofmd said:

Not sure what the point of Pete's superpower was (a get-out card for the price of disappearing?), but he did get a nice holiday plus I try not to question the ghost logic on this show.

Hopefully they’ll explore it more next season. It would be fun for the ghosts to pester him to leave the grounds to deliver messages to other ghosts…

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I do agree it would be nice to learn more about Nigel as a character, both in regards to his relationship and history with Isaac and as an individual. I'm hopeful that we'll get to see some of that at some point - maybe this whole storyline with them will be an opportunity to start delving into his perspective of things a little more. 

I assumed that they had decided to use Nigel less going forward, and that we won't see him much anymore, perhaps only slightly more than Stephanie.  With Flower temporarily gone, there was more room for subplots with Carol and Nigel, but now they can focus more on the main 8 ghosts.  And people seem to like Nancy occasionally, so they don't really "need" him (I have nothing against the actor or the character.) My guess is that Patience won't be in very many episodes, either; or at least won't become a regular.

This show has 10 full cast members-that's a very large cast.

11 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

That has never stopped me from eating guacamole the next day.

I'm the same way about sushi rolls.  No matter how well you wrap them, the rice is always somewhat dried out the next day (and any avocado is brown), but I'll still eat it.

Edited May 8 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I assumed that they had decided to use Nigel less going forward, and that we won't see him much anymore, perhaps only slightly more than Stephanie.  With Flower temporarily gone, there was more room for subplots with Carol and Nigel, but now they can focus more on the main 8 ghosts.  And people seem to like Nancy occasionally, so they don't really "need" him (I have nothing against the actor or the character.)

Eh, all the articles I've read related to this season finale indicate that the show very much wants to keep the actor on board and wants him to stick around, so I think they'll probably be using him at least as much as they have been thus far, if not slightly more when need be. I agree the chances of him becoming a regular cast member are pretty slim, because, like you said, such a crowded cast as it is, but they seem pretty happy to keep him a recurring cast member as much as possible. 

[possibilities]

I think if you've been closeted for hundreds of years and lusting after a specific person, and that person turns out to actually be interested... maybe you are reserved and cautious but maybe you have a tidal wave of relief and express a wild abandon at last. The pent up emotion after being closeted and the relief felt after finally coming out and finding love is a big deal.

I think the decision to make the gay couple buttoned up and not-hot is a purely network driven kind of homophobic nonsense. 

The show has been very frank about sexuality in all the other characters, including those who were buttoned up and repressed in life. We can make excuses all day long, but the fact is they chose to write the gay characters the way they did, and everybody else the opposite way.

 

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

While the lack of physical intimacy could be network based I do think it makes sense for their characters too. Nigel is a refined Brit who isn't given to public displays of emotion and Isaac has been closeted for hundreds of years and from the same era of not really showing displays of emotion in public. 

I don't think a show that uses phrases like "sucked off" and "jerked himself off onto Jay" is overly concerned about being too racy for CBS. I just think Nigel and Isaac come from very conservative backgrounds and eras, and even within the context of their relationship believe in taking things slow. I was surprised to see they were sharing the same bed when Isaac woke up from his dream.

[possibilities]

It's always been allowable to use faux-gay sex references as jokes, but not to portray a real relationship.

[proserpina65]

22 hours ago, South said:

Crab stock can be very economical and also allows for full use of the animal.  It can be made by finely straining the liquid left behind after a crab boil, or by boiling the nearly picked clean shells after steaming the crabs.

Honestly, the entire idea of making food for a ghost wedding is insane to begin with, but I guess if Jay had the stock in the freezer, it's a bit less cuckoo.

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But yeah, I definitely think the fact this show is on CBS is the biggest reason why we don't get the kind of physical interactions between them that the straight couples get.

Maybe, but I think a lot of it is plot-driven.  Isaac is the one holding back on physical intimacy and it's because he's still not entirely comfortable with who he is yet.  But I agree that finding out more about Nigel would make him a better character.

[proserpina65]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think if you've been closeted for hundreds of years and lusting after a specific person, and that person turns out to actually be interested... maybe you are reserved and cautious but maybe you have a tidal wave of relief and express a wild abandon at last. The pent up emotion after being closeted and the relief felt after finally coming out and finding love is a big deal.

This wouldn't fit with what we know of Isaac's character.  And he hasn't even been honest with himself about his sexuality for all that long.  He's still trying to figure things out.

[Mabinogia]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

This wouldn't fit with what we know of Isaac's character.  And he hasn't even been honest with himself about his sexuality for all that long.  He's still trying to figure things out.

Yeah, I think Isaac is nowhere near ready to be intimate. If he'd not had relations with his wife (I think it was implied but can't remember) then he's a centuries old virgin and I could see him being unsure. 

Also, wrt the idea that the guy he's been crushing on for over 100 years is interested, I think rather than "I gotta get on that" he's thinking "oh shit, what now?!??!!" since he probably never imagined Nigel reciprocated his feelings. 

Part of why I'd like to learn more about Nigel is to understand better his side of things. Was he also pining all this time? Was he aware of/crushing on Isaac in life too? Just how much experience had he in life? 

Honestly I see the fact that they are taking it slow as more a sign the show intends them to be long term while Thor and Flower, I get the feeling that they may or may not last and Trevor and Hetty are more just ghosts with benefits. And Nancy and Carol seem to be in a race to score the most notches on their bedposts. 

RE: Pete's ghost power, I wonder how long it will be before Sass has him passing notes to Shiki. (yeah, I'll still rooting for Sasshiki!)

[PaulE]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

19 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I assumed that they had decided to use Nigel less going forward, and that we won't see him much anymore, perhaps only slightly more than Stephanie.  With Flower temporarily gone, there was more room for subplots with Carol and Nigel, but now they can focus more on the main 8 ghosts.  And people seem to like Nancy occasionally, so they don't really "need" him (I have nothing against the actor or the character.)

Eh, all the articles I've read related to this season finale indicate that the show very much wants to keep the actor on board and wants him to stick around, so I think they'll probably be using him at least as much as they have been thus far, if not slightly more when need be. I agree the chances of him becoming a regular cast member are pretty slim, because, like you said, such a crowded cast as it is, but they seem pretty happy to keep him a recurring cast member as much as possible. 

I think it would fall a bit flat if he just faded into the background.  Stephanie (and Crash, for that matter) was never as prominent as he was.  Many of us think of him as the most important of the minor ghosts, and I think he has a fan base, so I don't see the writers just letting him go.  For one thing, his interaction with Isaac, now that they've split up, could provide some good subplots, and I think a lot of the show's fans are curious about how that might play out.  And it might actually be interesting for him to be involved occasionally with the other ghosts in plots that aren't connected with Isaac, though for that he'd probably need to be filled out a bit so that we know more about him.  

I agree that he's unlikely to become a major character, not only because the main group is already set and large enough, but because he's too similar to Isaac: white eighteenth-century gay soldiers.  Logistically, I suppose the challenge to writing for Nigel as a recurring character is to include him enough to make it worthwhile for the actor to keep coming back!  I doubt John Hartman's salary is enough for him not to do other things, and Nigel's too well known to replace him with another actor.  Well, it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

[kathyk2]

6 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

This wouldn't fit with what we know of Isaac's character.  And he hasn't even been honest with himself about his sexuality for all that long.  He's still trying to figure things out.

I think Isaac and Nigel moved too quickly they went from first kiss to engaged in no time at all. Thorfinn and Flower knew each other for fifty years before falling in love.

[PaulE]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Part of why I'd like to learn more about Nigel is to understand better his side of things. Was he also pining all this time? Was he aware of/crushing on Isaac in life too? Just how much experience had he in life? 

I don't think he could have known Isaac while alive.  Isaac's behavior, when he first spotted Nigel with his Eye-saac, indicated to me that he'd never seen him before and certainly didn't know his name.  Nigel would have had no way of knowing Isaac existed.  When ghost Nigel first came over to demand Sam restore the shed door, Sam noticed that he and Isaac were making goo-goo eyes at each other, and Pete and Sass told her that it had been going on for centuries but that neither of them had ever made a move.  Since they were both trying to hide their mutual attraction, I suspect each didn't know how the other felt, and neither would have known at that point that the other was gay.  And if you don't know that, you're certainly going to make sure your romantic feelings are kept hidden. 

  Remember that Isaac did eventually tell Nigel that he liked him, and Nigel said something like, "You like me?", like this was the first time he'd heard that.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

Nigel would have had no way of knowing Isaac existed.  

I mean, he could well have spotted Isaac from his side of the camp at some point, too, similar to the way Isaac had noticed him. If he was keeping tabs on what the Americans were doing, I could see a scenario where he might've noticed Isaac wandering about the property at some point, even if he woudln't have known who he was or anything else about him. 

I agree that Isaac telling NIgel he' liked him was definitely the first itme he'd heard him say that aloud, but he also reacted to that confession in a way that seemed to indicate, "What took you so long to admit it?" Their interactions have shown that Nigel's been well aware of Isaac's interest in him for quite some time, he's just been waiting patiently (ever so patiently :p) for him to actually acknowledge it and say it aloud. That's why he got so hopeful when Isaac went to admit to killing him - he was clearly expecting a whole other type of confession :p. 

3 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I think Isaac and Nigel moved too quickly they went from first kiss to engaged in no time at all. Thorfinn and Flower knew each other for fifty years before falling in love.

That's the thing that I  think a lot of people tend to forget about Isaac and Nigel, though - they DID have a slow burn. It's just that the vast majority of it happened before the show started, so we haven't had the opportunity to see all that buildup in depth (just as we haven't seen the last fifty years of buildup for Thor and Flower). But they'd known each other far longer than Thor and Flower have - they've got two centuries' worth of history together, and had been dancing around acknowledging, both to themselves and to each other, their feelings for each other for pretty much the entirety of that time. Their actual romantic relatinoship itself moved rather fast, yes, but their history together in general? Not so much. 

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, I think Isaac is nowhere near ready to be intimate. If he'd not had relations with his wife (I think it was implied but can't remember) then he's a centuries old virgin and I could see him being unsure. 

Also, wrt the idea that the guy he's been crushing on for over 100 years is interested, I think rather than "I gotta get on that" he's thinking "oh shit, what now?!??!!" since he probably never imagined Nigel reciprocated his feelings. 

Mmhm. I think he's just not used to knowing how to respond in this situation, since any other crushes/attractions he's had towards men have always been from afar. There was the implication in the first season that he had a bit of a thing for his best friend Edward, and then every other man he's admired was alive while he was a ghost (Jay, Chris, there was that mention of that Clive in the episode where he came out to Hetty), so even if he wanted to act on his feelings, he couldn't, for obvious reasons. I do think he's definitely had osme of those kinds of desires and thoughts in regards to Nigel, but he's just not allowed himself to actually dare to put them into action, for a whole host of reasons. 

Which is why I continue to think this whole thing with Chris is meant to tie into a storyline where he does explore being more comfortable with that side of himself, his desires and physical intimacy with another man (of any sort), similar to what they did with Hetty learning to be more comfortable with that aspect of herself last season. And I feel like as he learns to become more comfortable with and understand more about himself and his sexuality in general, that'll play into whatever they've got planned for him and Nigel going forward, in terms of if and how they eventually get back together. 

Quote

Part of why I'd like to learn more about Nigel is to understand better his side of things. Was he also pining all this time? Was he aware of/crushing on Isaac in life too? Just how much experience had he in life? 

Ha, and that's getting more into fandom/fanfic headcanons for me here, but I do think he's definitely been attracted to Isaac for most, if not all, of the time they've known each other as ghosts, at the very least. I don't know that he would've known Isaac well enough to crush on him while they were alive, but I do like to think he might've at least noticed him at some point, the way I noted above.

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Honestly I see the fact that they are taking it slow as more a sign the show intends them to be long term while Thor and Flower, I get the feeling that they may or may not last and Trevor and Hetty are more just ghosts with benefits. 

I kind of feel like Thor and Flower are intended to be long-term as well, partly because they were the first ghosts that the show explored any kind of romantic storyline with, early in the first season, and partly because they've had a rather lengthy history together in their own right, too. 

But yeah, I also agree that Isaac and Nigel are meant to be a long-term pairing, too, and I can see Hetty/Trevor having more of an off and on/friends with benefits sort of thing. Especially if they are considering having both Isaac/Nigel and Thor/Flower being long-term - Hetty/Trevor would balance that out a little bit in that regard. 

Quote

RE: Pete's ghost power, I wonder how long it will be before Sass has him passing notes to Shiki. (yeah, I'll still rooting for Sasshiki!)

YES! I keep wondering about this, too! Maybe part of the reason his power activated the way it did was because he was so far from home. But he wouldn't have to go that far to see Shiki. I would absolutely love to see more of her in general, and see what else they could do with her and Sasappis. I really like them together, too :). 

Edited May 9 by Annber03

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That's the thing that I  think a lot of people tend to forget about Isaac and Nigel, though - they DID have a slow burn. It's just that the vast majority of it happened before the show started, so we haven't had the opportunity to see all that buildup in depth (just as we haven't seen the last fifty years of buildup for Thor and Flower). But they'd known each other far longer than Thor and Flower have - they've got two centuries' worth of history together, and had been dancing around acknowledging, both to themselves and to each other, their feelings for each other for pretty much the entirety of that time. Their actual romantic relatinoship itself moved rather fast, yes, but their history together in general? Not so much. 

True, but during the vast majority of that time, Isaac didn't even admit to himself that he was gay, never mind telling Nigel that he was interested in him.

I do agree with most of your post, though.  I think we're going to see Isaac spend time coming to terms with a lot of the implications of his feelings over the course of next season.

[PaulE]

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But they'd known each other far longer than Thor and Flower have - they've got two centuries' worth of history together, and had been dancing around acknowledging, both to themselves and to each other, their feelings for each other for pretty much the entirety of that time. Their actual romantic relatinoship itself moved rather fast, yes, but their history together in general? Not so much. 

And that really might be the crux of the issue with their relationship.  Sure, they've had feelings for one another for centuries, but they were never able to learn to genuinely know each other until recently, so those feelings didn't have the solid foundation that you have when you know someone's faults and foibles yet your love endures despite them.  In other words, their (or at least Isaac's) love wasn't mature.  It could also be that, as so happens, once you finally get the object of your desire it loses its allure.  And Isaac's been desiring for a long, long time.

Their breakup doesn't necessarily mean that they won't get back together.  It might be that, as they try to process what happened and, hopefully, at least remain friends, they could learn to know each other better and find their love growing and deepening to the point where they'd really be sure about getting married the next time.  That does happen to some couples.  Of course, it could also mean that they ultimately decide they care for each other as friends only.  The best therapy would be for them to take a break from one another and start dating other people, but of course that's impossible in their case, so I hope the writers explore the dynamics between them next season.  Whether they come back together or remain permanently apart, they do have to move on or they're going to be miserable.

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, PaulE said:

And that really might be the crux of the issue with their relationship.  Sure, they've had feelings for one another for centuries, but they were never able to learn to genuinely know each other until recently, so those feelings didn't have the solid foundation that you have when you know someone's faults and foibles yet your love endures despite them.  In other words, their (or at least Isaac's) love wasn't mature.  It could also be that, as so happens, once you finally get the object of your desire it loses its allure.  And Isaac's been desiring for a long, long time.

Oh, yeah, that I will definitely agree with. They know each other, sure, but they don't know each other, not completely, in the sorts of ways you note. And so much of the time they interact has involved them getting into some kind of debate about something, which, on the one hand, can be a sign of them finding a way to channel and express that longing and desire - they can't come right out and admit their feelings or take some of the next steps in their relationship that would be logical ones to take, so this is about the next best way they can get that deeper tension between them out there :p.

But of course, on the other hand, they also spend so much time arguing that it makes it harder for them to have those quieter moments of just getting to know each other on a more intimate level, be it intellectually, emotionally ,or physically. Mind, they may well have had some moments like that that were just largely off screen -I like to think they have had a few - but I do think if they are going to start over and try again, that might be a good aspect for them to explore further as well, learning how to cmmunicate in ways other than debating and arguing. I don't want them to completely stop arguing with each other, 'cause I do think that is a funny aspect of their relationship, especially since so many of their fights are over the most ridiculous things, and I think it's always going to be part of their dynamic to some degree simply because of how their history together started. But yeah, more quieter moments to balance that out would be helpful for them, too.

I also feel like part of the reason these two got together so quickly is because of reasons not related to the characters - slow burns just aren't really much of a thing in a lot of shows nowadays in general, most series are putting couples together fairly early on because a lot of viewers have gotten tired of the "will they/won't they" dance, and with LGBTQ+ couples especially, a lot of shows also have to deal with the whole queerbaiting thing, and I think this show wanted to avoid that (and it was the first season and they probably weren't entirely sure how successful this show would be, so they wanted to do as much of what they planned just in case they didn't make it to a second season. 

But yeah, now they're more established and they've been guaranteed a fourth season and whatnot, that might explain some of this storyline, too, giving them a little more time to explore these two in depth and let them get a chance to develop their relationship more in ways they might not have been able to or had the chance to early on. 

[eel2178]

On 5/3/2024 at 1:28 PM, proserpina65 said:

 Guac should be avocado, olive oil, salt, lemon or lime and peppers.  Nothing else.  Certainly not nasty crab.

I use dried minced onion and garlic powder.

I'm Jewish, so any shellfish is a definite no-no. That's why I can't eat kim chi (I'm also a complete wimp when it comes to spices, but that wouldn't stop me from at least tasting it if I could find some not made with dried shrimp).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/10/2024 at 3:34 PM, eel2178 said:

I'm Jewish, so any shellfish is a definite no-no. That's why I can't eat kim chi (I'm also a complete wimp when it comes to spices, but that wouldn't stop me from at least tasting it if I could find some not made with dried shrimp).

In light of that your username is rather ironic.

There's plenty of vegan kimchi. This brand is even certified as kosher: https://www.clevelandkitchen.com/kimchi

[Badsamaritan]

I've been thinking back on this season and I'm discovering that, despite some really good dialogue and individual scenes, this shortened season has fallen flat for me. I don't really feel like we got enough emotional lead-up to Isaac stopping the wedding. And, the ghosts seemed a little meaner this season. Maybe it was Flower being gone for most of it but I really didn't enjoy Jay being the resident butt monkey in most of the episodes. Maybe it was the writers choosing not to catch them up to real time, because everything felt slightly off. There isn't one episode I'll go back and watch in its entirety, which is really unfortunate. The only thing I enjoyed in this finale was the stripper and Patience snatching Isaac. I imagine that will be resolved quickly because any scene between Isaac and Patience is gonna have to take place either in a hole on the property or back in the basement. You can't film them in the dirt. 🤷🏽‍♀️