S08.E21: Reunion Part 3

[drivethroo]

5 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I want to see more of that. Potomac often feels like the housewives franchise with the least money, and it shows that all of them behave as if they need the money.

Gizelle and her crew ran off all the cast members who had other sources of income. So get used to Pork & Bean Pickleball and Driveway Dinners.

5 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I am really surprised that Robyn got the boot before she and Gizelle had a chance to go head to head. I have long said that whenever the GEBs felt as if Robyn's job was in jeopardy, that they would feud with each other because they know people would want to see that. 

We may have seen that in Season 9 because Gizelle definitely did not know Robyn was smack talking her to the bloggers, even though both of them pretended Gizelle knew. It's easier for Gizelle to believe Candiace made it all up than to believe her BFF was selling her out to the blogs too.

The fun light moments stopped the moment GEBNA decided it was fun to lie on people's husbands, children and families.

[lasu]

18 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

It's going to look even worse though for Gizelle to go after Mia's relationship because it feels like rinse and repeat. 

It's not going to be easy to come after her relationship again, because Gordon fell on his sword like it was part of his alimony settlement.  He either truly feels she hasn't done wrong by him and is continuing to be a good friend/partner/co-parent, or he can SERIOUSLY play the game to keep her sipping out of that flute.  I don't know which, but it was impressive either way.

[Giddyup]

I’d also prefer to see wealthy ladies living it up. I know there will always be fights but I don’t like when they turn physical. This group also throws out a lot of cheating rumors regardless if there’s any truth to the rumors or not.

[Rlb8031]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:30 PM, lasu said:

And how do you decide, using this metric of words can get you assaulted and you need to expect it any moment, when to ever open your mouth? 

You (hopefully) learn this behavior may have unanticipated results when you are young, which prevents you from being a 35–40-year-old housewife talking shit to some ratchet hood girl who just wants to be on tv whether they are famous or infamous. And if you don't learn it then, you should certainly learn it after the first or second time you say something out of pocket which results in a right hook to the dome.

I grew up in a major metropolitan city where "fuck around and find out" was written in every schoolyard, backyard, and playground. As a kid, having a slick mouth could get you into trouble in school, in church, at home, and most certainly out in the street with strangers. People learned to size up the person they were dealing with and to understand that just because someone seemed like they were harmless (like those little old church ladies or the little kids you picked on at the bus stop) didn't mean they always were. You learned to discern how to stand up for yourself without slinging insults and when making a point drifted into going too far. 

I do not understand adults who have not developed this life skill and why the expectation is that everyone else in the world needs to tolerate their deficiencies in self-preservation. 

[drivethroo]

The majority of the Potomac cast did not grow up in the hood or scary big city.  They were not throwing hands at the Jack & Jill social or the AKA debutante ball because somebody said something they didn't like.  At 35+ years old, they're old enough to know how to fight with their words and not with their hands and they're old enough to know if you put your hands on somebody because they said something you didn't like, YOU will face more consequences than they will. 

Just as we say women over high school age should know "talk shit, get hit", women over high school age should also know "If Susan has a nasty mouth when I'm rude to her, maybe I shouldn't be rude to her."  So if Candiace should learn not to run her mouth at people because someone may hit her if her words land the wrong way, other people should learn if they don't want Candiace to attack them, leave her alone.  It works both ways.

The problem is people think it shouldn't have to work both ways,  they should be able to talk shit to and about Candiace and they should be able to beat her ass but if she talks about them, that's wrong.  That's not how it works.

While both Charrisse and Mia were both wrong for blaming Candiace for her response, they were both correct in saying Candiace had too much to lose to tangle up with Deborah.

This is why its good Candiace will likely not ever be around this production & cast again, whether it was Candiace's choice or not to separate from it. She's not innocent, but she's also not the one outsourcing her violence to hoodbooger henchmen, then pretending to have clean hands.

Edited April 23, 2024 by drivethroo

[Iguessnot]

7 hours ago, drivethroo said:

 

While both Charrisse and Mia were both wrong for blaming Candiace for her response, they were both correct in saying Candiace had too much to lose to tangle up with Deborah.

 

Let's not forget that Mia has thrown things (lettuce, water) at both Candiace and Wendy. 

[lasu]

20 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I do not understand adults who have not developed this life skill and why the expectation is that everyone else in the world needs to tolerate their deficiencies in self-preservation. 

I don't expect you to tolerate anything, I just expect you not to get violent over words.  How is not learning to keep your hands to yourself not a bigger deficiency than not learning how to stop running your mouth?  I'll admit to having a mouth on me, but I've managed to keep my hands to myself when I get it back.  I don't understand full grown adults who haven't learned how to not get violent when losing a verbal battle.

[Keywestclubkid]

I love the talk shit get hit crowed .. hit me .. my lawyer would love to take your money 

 

talking shit won’t get you put in jail … physical violence will 

Edited April 23, 2024 by Keywestclubkid

[Rlb8031]

1 hour ago, lasu said:

I don't expect you to tolerate anything, I just expect you not to get violent over words.  How is not learning to keep your hands to yourself not a bigger deficiency than not learning how to stop running your mouth?  I'll admit to having a mouth on me, but I've managed to keep my hands to myself when I get it back.  I don't understand full grown adults who haven't learned how to not get violent when losing a verbal battle.

They are both deficiencies. But you rarely hear people who throw hands complain about how hurt they are by someone's words - that's not how they are built. And uniformly, they have little to nothing to lose by smacking someone upside the head other than their freedom, which many do not value in the least. Life is all about risk assessment. I don't throw hands. But I do recognize that not everyone is like me, and that the possibility exists that even though I don't fight, you do, and you may not have the same level of impulse control as me. I understand that people are unpredictable, and therefore it's in my best interest to not presume good manners and proper behavior from anyone who is angry. Folks like Candiace may wish for the world to respond the same way they do, but folks who live long lives without fighting recognize that the easiest way to win a fight is to avoid one. 

[Chatty Cake]

In the case of Monique vs Candiace, it was a lot more than talk shit get hit.  Candiace was actively goading Monique until she snapped. She got what she wanted. Attention, mamas help going after Monique and she did Gizelles dirty work for her because Gizelle had it in for Monique. Candy thought she was all set with Gizelle until uncomfortable gate happened.

With Sesame Street, Candiace wasn’t paying her any attention and hadn’t been talking shit about her. Sesame was probably encouraged by Ashley and Gizzelle to start something with Candiace. All Candiace said was the Help and vermin and Cookie Monster decided to fight. The other ladies really shouldn’t have called Candiace out for Sesame.

[lasu]

16 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

But you rarely hear people who throw hands complain about how hurt they are by someone's words - that's not how they are built.

Monique complained plenty.  So did Debra.

 

17 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

And uniformly, they have little to nothing to lose by smacking someone upside the head other than their freedom, which many do not value in the least.

Monique had nothing to lose?

I mean, really, at the end of the day, one is criminal behavior and one isn't.  Of course running my mouth could get me knocked upside the head, because there are criminals.  I also lock my doors because of criminals, but if I leave my door unlocked (legally allowed action), I do not deserve to have my house broken into (criminal action).  Monique's actions were criminal - Candiace's were not.  I consider Candiace's actions (while often incredibly childish) to be more more mature than Monique's.

[LaurelleJ]

Isn't the whole point of these housewives shows to show conflict and to verbally spar? Candiace is good at it. There have been, in my opinion, worse things said on this show than calling someone vermin. Karen called Gizelle a broken whore from Hampton University. Ashley asked G if he had Alzheimers (even more vile now with his new diagnosis). Deborah clearly came looking for a moment. I'm glad that Mia also told that Deborah also came to her looking for a moment. Deborah's anger is when Candiace didn't give her the moment and went to ignore her. If ignoring someone and turning away to continue to have a good time is inciting physical violence, this show is doomed. 

[drivethroo]

 

1 hour ago, Rlb8031 said:

And uniformly, they have little to nothing to lose by smacking someone upside the head other than their freedom, which many do not value in the least

"Talk shit get hit" is puffery from scared middle class women.  People are not going around smacking people up because somebody said something they didn't like. Otherwise people would be in a fist fight every day.

Furthermore, the people who carry out "talk shit get hit" in real life are not hoodrats with nothing to lose, ghetto people who don't value their freedom. They are often women like Monique & Deborah, who have everything to lose but know their looks, money or status in the community will protect them from consequences.

2 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Folks like Candiace may wish for the world to respond the same way they do, but folks who live long lives without fighting recognize that the easiest way to win a fight is to avoid one. 

This is more puffery and scared middle class pufflestuff on what "folks like Candiace" need to learn to do.  "Folks like Candiace" aren't going around calling people vermin, varmints, hoodrats or the help on a regular basis because there's no reason to.  There is no fight or a threat of a fight ...99% of people in real life don't live life like that.

1 hour ago, lasu said:

Monique complained plenty.  So did Debra.

Both Monique & Debra decided to fight Candiace because other people were laughing at them. They felt humiliated & ashamed & decided Candiace needed to pay for that shame.  

1 hour ago, lasu said:

Monique had nothing to lose?

In the end, Monique was rewarded for beating up Candiace* with another full time contract. Debra was rewarded for lying on Chris by being brought back to be mic'd up and filmed again.

1 hour ago, LaurelleJ said:

Deborah's anger is when Candiace didn't give her the moment and went to ignore her. If ignoring someone and turning away to continue to have a good time is inciting physical violence, this show is doomed. 

It's doomed because it's fake and IMO next season will be about proving Candiace was the issue instead of addressing the actual issues,

[Salacious Kitty]

Was Sesame Street mic'd up? That fight happened after cameras stopped rolling. We got audio, but that could have been from Candiace's mic pack. 

I think Ashley was still mic'd up as well. 

 

[Stats Queen]

14 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Was Sesame Street mic'd up? That fight happened after cameras stopped rolling. We got audio, but that could have been from Candiace's mic pack. 

I think Ashley was still mic'd up as well. 

 

The cameras were down but mics were left on. Right after the cameras went down, Ashley said “are the cameras down?” And then, Sesame Street approached Candiace. Coincidence, I think not. I think Ashley thought since the cameras were down, they could spin it that Candiace was the aggressor.

It is an individual adult’s responsibility to keep their hands to themselves no matter what provocation.

if you use the metric of mouth off enough you deserve a beat down, then I think Deborah and Giselle deserved beat downs from Candiace for lying about her husband, damaging lies.

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by Stats Queen

[dosodog]

1 hour ago, Stats Queen said:

if you use the metric of mouth off enough you deserve a beat diwn, then I think Deborah and Giselle deserved beat downs from Candiace for lying about her husband, damaging lies.

That right there!  Candiace goes straight for the jugular, while Gizelle and Ashley play the game of death by a thousand paper cuts.

She insults looks.  They try to damage relationships. Candiace does have a messy mouth, but so do they.

And nobody should have to deal with physical violence because they run their mouths.

Edited April 24, 2024 by dosodog

[pasdetrois]

On 4/23/2024 at 7:17 PM, drivethroo said:

People are not going around smacking people up because somebody said something they didn't like. Otherwise people would be in a fist fight every day.

I beg to differ. See Youtube. Arguments and insults escalate into physical fights all the time - shoving, slapping, knocking phones out of hands, punching. The weary police intervene.

Some people know how to draw the line when anger could go from rage-screaming to physical force. It's called impulse control.

Edited April 26, 2024 by pasdetrois

[Yours Truly]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:30 PM, lasu said:

And how do you decide, using this metric of words can get you assaulted and you need to expect it any moment, when to ever open your mouth?  Do you complain to the manager if you get the wrong dinner?  What if he doesn't like your tone and slaps you?  Why do you think the law doesn't allow for this aspect of human nature that is apparently completely normal when someone pushes your wrong button that day?  If people aren't expected to control themselves, why aren't there "Yo Momma" clauses in assault laws?  Because we, as a society, expect people to keep their hands to themselves, unless they are protecting themselves or someone else from imminent physical (NOT verbal) danger.

 

Well I EXPECT a car not to hit me as I'm crossing the road because well hello, pedestrian right of way and all that plus it's not cool to kill someone with you car but that doesn't mean I don't TAKE CAUTION when crossing the road. There is a certain amount of responsibility that a person has to NOT be careless and just toss themselves into oncoming traffic. A certain responsibility to want to AVOID hazardous situations that have the potential to cause harm.

To be reckless in a sense that you are purposely engaging in questionable behavior DESIGNED to create a volatile atmosphere is what I find fault with. We can wax poetic all day long about how "it's never okay, yada yada, yada" but its not some well hidden secret that some people will get physical for behavior like that. So why take the chance? 

Chastising it doesn't change it and I for one am not going to wade in dangerous waters just because technically I can and people who do throw caution to the wind and take such gambles don't get much sympathy from me cause the same way it's supposed to be so easy to keep hands to oneself its even easier to choose ones words carefully.  

To put it simply. Don't start none, won't be none. 

[Yours Truly]

On 4/22/2024 at 5:18 PM, Rlb8031 said:

You (hopefully) learn this behavior may have unanticipated results when you are young, which prevents you from being a 35–40-year-old housewife talking shit to some ratchet hood girl who just wants to be on tv whether they are famous or infamous. And if you don't learn it then, you should certainly learn it after the first or second time you say something out of pocket which results in a right hook to the dome.

I grew up in a major metropolitan city where "fuck around and find out" was written in every schoolyard, backyard, and playground. As a kid, having a slick mouth could get you into trouble in school, in church, at home, and most certainly out in the street with strangers. People learned to size up the person they were dealing with and to understand that just because someone seemed like they were harmless (like those little old church ladies or the little kids you picked on at the bus stop) didn't mean they always were. You learned to discern how to stand up for yourself without slinging insults and when making a point drifted into going too far. 

I do not understand adults who have not developed this life skill and why the expectation is that everyone else in the world needs to tolerate their deficiencies in self-preservation. 

LOOOOOVVVEEE THIS!!

Yeah, I grew up in the Bronx so I don't see my take on things as defending or justifying it but more like a public service announcement. LOL. I mean, its crazy to me how people really do simplify these matters. Yes, it's wrong to lay hands, OBVIOUSLY but I mean people still will depending on the circumstances and to ignore that detail when choosing how to interact is just plain ole foolish. People want to be "right" so bad, but to me it ain't really about right and wrong it's about smarts and playing it safe. I get that it's wrong but I'm also going to be mindful about the fact that people do wrong shit all the time so I can't COUNT on someone NOT reacting a certain way so it makes sense to just not engage in childish verbal assaults.

[lasu]

10 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Well I EXPECT a car not to hit me as I'm crossing the road because well hello, pedestrian right of way and all that plus it's not cool to kill someone with you car but that doesn't mean I don't TAKE CAUTION when crossing the road. There is a certain amount of responsibility that a person has to NOT be careless and just toss themselves into oncoming traffic. A certain responsibility to want to AVOID hazardous situations that have the potential to cause harm.

This isn't your best example, I don't think.  There are actually laws about how you as a pedestrian can cross the street.  For example, if you cross in the middle of the street, it's jaywalking, and it's illegal.  And yet, even if you break this law, a driver of a car is expected to do everything they possibly can to not hit the jaywalker.  If they do not do everything they can, they will be charged with hitting the jaywalker, even though the jaywalker committed the first "crime."

Candiace never committed a crime.  Monique did.  Drivers are expected to avoid pedestrians regardless of how badly the pedestrian behaves.  Hitting a pedestrian with your car is only going to be excused if you absolutely couldn't prevent it.  Even if I run out in front of your car over and over, taunting you to run me over, you still are not allowed to do it or it's you've become a criminal too (which has happened with drivers hitting protesters). Monique did not do everything she could to prevent the altercation from going from verbal to physical, and that's why her actions are criminal and Candiace's are not. Candiace did not put Monique in a situation where Monique could not prevent herself from assaulting Candiace. 

 

[Yours Truly]

19 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

They are both deficiencies. But you rarely hear people who throw hands complain about how hurt they are by someone's words - that's not how they are built. And uniformly, they have little to nothing to lose by smacking someone upside the head other than their freedom, which many do not value in the least. Life is all about risk assessment. I don't throw hands. But I do recognize that not everyone is like me, and that the possibility exists that even though I don't fight, you do, and you may not have the same level of impulse control as me. I understand that people are unpredictable, and therefore it's in my best interest to not presume good manners and proper behavior from anyone who is angry. Folks like Candiace may wish for the world to respond the same way they do, but folks who live long lives without fighting recognize that the easiest way to win a fight is to avoid one. 

"well they'll go to jail" "being physical vs. verbal will get you in more trouble"

What people seem to forget is that people lose it. No rhyme or reason. That high horse isn't going to keep a person out of the hospital. 

Erratic behavior isn't some rare compulsion. It's a real and common thing. I mean road rage happens and it's the most bizarre thing you can witness but it's not unheard of or some once in a blue thing. That right there shows us that people can just have sparatic episodes of emotional distress where reason and good judgement go out the window. It's better to be safe than sorry and going around wanting to  test random people on their emotional discipline for shits and giggles is just such a mindboggling pass time to me. Just sayin'.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

Just now, lasu said:

This isn't your best example, I don't think.  There are actually laws about how you as a pedestrian can cross the street.  For example, if you cross in the middle of the street, it's jaywalking, and it's illegal.  And yet, even if you break this law, a driver of a car is expected to do everything they possibly can to not hit the jaywalker.  If they do not do everything they can, they will be charged with hitting the jaywalker, even though the jaywalker committed the first "crime."

Candiace never committed a crime.  Monique did.  Drivers are expected to avoid pedestrians regardless of how badly the pedestrian behaves.  Hitting a pedestrian with your car is only going to be excused if you absolutely couldn't prevent it.  Even if I run out in front of your car over and over, taunting you to run me over, you still are not allowed to do it or it's you've become a criminal too (which has happened with drivers hitting protesters). Monique did not do everything she could to prevent the altercation from going from verbal to physical, and that's why her actions are criminal and Candiace's are not. Candiace did not put Monique in a situation where Monique could not prevent herself from assaulting Candiace. 

 

Again with the laws.

It's more about the gravity of the consequence for not taking care. I know that it's in my best interest to be mindful and careful when crossing the street even though I would expect a driver to do everything in their power to not hit pedestrians. 

My point is that I also have a responsibility to MY OWN safety and throwing myself in front of oncoming traffic without first seeing if its clear is a dumb and reckless thing to do. 

Same way a person should be mindful of what sort of atmosphere there are creating for themselves when engaging is distasteful behavior among others. Basically there's 50/50 chance shit won't go your way. Right or wrong its still boils down to it being a Roll of the dice. I personally think it's a stupid risk to take. But that's just me.  

 

[lasu]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Again with the laws.

It's more about the gravity of the consequence for not taking care.

Yes, laws, lol.  They are thing!  They could even be considered a reflection of what we consider right and wrong in this society, and what (as a society) we expect to be adult behavior. 

I also sometimes drink alcohol in short skirts at bars where there are men I don't know.  Even if I make myself more vulnerable to being raped, I hope people wouldn't be so quick to blame me because I didn't do everything in my power to prevent criminal behavior towards me.

I don't know about others here, ESPECIALLY those who are too afraid to speak up for themselves, but I've actually gotten hit for running my mouth - more than once!  In Raleigh, NC!  Not even in a scary, dangerous place to grow up!  By people you wouldn't define as those who have nothing to lose. Does it suck?  You bet it does.  But it also sucks not standing up for yourself, or enjoying a drink at a bar, because you are too afraid of criminals.  And I, for one, will ALWAYS place MORE responsibility on the criminal for their criminal behavior than I will the criminal's victim.  

[Yours Truly]

5 minutes ago, lasu said:

Yes, laws, lol.  They are thing!  They could even be considered a reflection of what we consider right and wrong in this society, and what (as a society) we expect to be adult behavior. 

I also sometimes drink alcohol in short skirts at bars where there are men I don't know.  Even if I make myself more vulnerable to being raped, I hope people wouldn't be so quick to blame me because I didn't do everything in my power to prevent criminal behavior towards me.

I don't know about others here, ESPECIALLY those who are too afraid to speak up for themselves, but I've actually gotten hit for running my mouth - more than once!  In Raleigh, NC!  Not even in a scary, dangerous place to grow up!  By people you wouldn't define as those who have nothing to lose. Does it suck?  You bet it does.  But it also sucks not standing up for yourself, or enjoying a drink at a bar, because you are too afraid of criminals.  And I, for one, will ALWAYS place MORE responsibility on the criminal for their criminal behavior than I will the criminal's victim.  

I mean everyone has the right to take foolish chances.

There seems to be this huge focus on the blame side of the aftermath where my points are centered on the true tramatic side of the aftermath. The injury, the harm, the pain and long term effects. Knowing the person is going to jail for 5 minutes isn't enough to sooth the stitches, the bruises, the cuts, the nightmares, the PTSD. At least not for me. Plus the ugly behavior I'm trying to give myself permission for isn't exactly worth the outcome. Hmmmmm, being a rude, childish bitch with a slick mouth is so important to me that the chances of me getting roughed up is absolutely worth it. That's the non logic that has me stratching my head.

Also, Rlb8031 last couple of posts sums everything up so nicely and perfectly. It's about understanding just how unpredictable people can be so it is also in someone's self interest to keep that in mind before deciding that being verbally abusive isn't always the best option. 

 

 

[Yours Truly]

3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I beg to differ. See Youtube. Arguments and insults escalate into physical fights all the time - shoving, slapping, knocking phones out of hands, punching. The weary police intervene.

It's a demonstration that some people know how to draw the line when anger could go from rage-screaming to physical force. It's called impulse control.

Its crazy how hard some want to make this a myth or something. I mean stay blessed I guess cause I've never lived a day in my life thinking I could get into some verbal altercation with someone without at least considering the possibility of it escalating to something physical.

I mean interactions and altercations DO escalate or am I missing something?? LOL. 

It's not some folk tale from some far off place and yet it does constantly get described as such. SMH

Edited April 24, 2024 by Yours Truly

[lasu]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

There seems to be this huge focus on the blame side of the aftermath where my points are centered on the true tramatic side of the aftermath. The injury, the harm, the pain and long term effects. Knowing the person is going to jail for 5 minutes isn't enough to sooth the stitches, the bruises, the cuts, the nightmares, the PTSD. At least not for me. Plus the ugly behavior I'm trying to give myself permission for isn't exactly worth the outcome. Hmmmmm, being a rude, childish bitch with a slick mouth is so important to me that the chances of me getting roughed up is absolutely worth it. That's the non logic that has me stratching my head.

Again, I've gotten hit for running my mouth, so I'm speaking from first hand experience when I say I regret nothing.  Standing up for myself is worth it.  I don't look back at my words with embarrassment and shame, but I know for a fact at least one of the people who hit me, grew up and became better and apologized for their actions.  Also, when I apply for a job, no one can see that I have run my mouth too much in the past.  But those assault charges stay with you for quite awhile.

I wasn't even a rude, childish bitch with ugly behavior, and I still got assaulted by someone who control themselves (I've been hit by both women and men for my words) (I've also at a younger age lost control and hit someone for what they said to me and I suffered the consequences of that - I'm FAR more embarrassed by that than anything that has EVER come out of my mouth).  I'm going to continue to be someone who stands up for myself, even though I do understand I may eventually come across someone who will assault me, simply for standing up for myself.  I'm also going to wear what I want and have drinks in public when I feel like it, and if someone wants to blame me if something bad happens as a result, well, that's their problem. I'm just not willing to live my life in fear.  No thanks.

5 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I mean interactions and altercations DO escalate or am I missing something?? LOL. 

We all understand that verbal altercations can escalate to physical assaults.  We just don't then blame the verbal person for the physical person's behavior. 

[Giddyup]

Have any of you been out with your friends or coworkers and a physical fight broke out? I never have. I have been mad at friends or coworkers on occasion. I’ve seen some yelling and crying over the years but no hair pulling, throwing drinks. grabbing someone or anything like that. I should say as an adult. High school was a little different. 
Bravo seems to encourage this behavior and also encourages a lot of drinking. I am curious about their contracts because I don’t remember any bravolebs getting punished for table flips, hair pulls and other physical acts. 

[Yours Truly]

27 minutes ago, lasu said:

 

We all understand that verbal altercations can escalate to physical assaults.  We just don't then blame the verbal person for the physical person's behavior. 

And I find that weird.

This whole completely blameless angle is intriguing to me. I think if you participate in ANY way you're making a stupid decision. On BOTH sides. 

To each their own. 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2024 by Yours Truly

[lasu]

3 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

And I find that weird.

This whole completely blameless angle is intriguing to me. I think if you participate in ANY way you're making a stupid decision. On BOTH sides. 

To each their own. 

You think it's weird to not blame someone who committed no criminal behavior for someone else's crimes?  

If I ordered lasagna but got chicken parm at Olive Garden and asked for it to be fixed, and my server slapped me because he wasn't in the mood and didn't like my tone, should I have known better?  How do you ever stand up for yourself if you're always afraid of how someone else will react?

Monique made a choice to escalate to physical violence over words all by herself.  Call me crazy, but I hold her accountable for her criminal actions.  If she is unable to control herself when under verbal assault, those are life skills she should learn.  Just like men have to not rape women in short skirts.  Monique lost control of herself and committed a criminal assault.  

You can say to each their own, but again, we do live in a country that has laws about behavior and interactions.  And no where does it say if someone pisses you off enough, you get to assault them.  So it's not like I'm just making this up out of nowhere.  It's literally the law.

[Rlb8031]

1 hour ago, lasu said:

Yes, laws, lol.  They are thing!  They could even be considered a reflection of what we consider right and wrong in this society, and what (as a society) we expect to be adult behavior. 

But let's look at both of these situations with Candiace. In the first one, charges were brought against Monique then ultimately thrown out by the court because they basically determined that this was a childish dispute where both parties were wrong. And in Sesame Street's case, as far as I know there were not even any charges filed. It's great to say the law will take care of it, but actual practice shows that this may not always be the case. And Candiace is the one paying therapy bills related to PTSD. 

52 minutes ago, lasu said:

Again, I've gotten hit for running my mouth, so I'm speaking from first hand experience when I say I regret nothing.  Standing up for myself is worth it. 

I'm sure that Janice thought that she was standing up for herself when she approached Candiace. After all, she's been the one clowned incessantly on Al Gore's internet. 

52 minutes ago, lasu said:

I'm also going to wear what I want and have drinks in public when I feel like it, and if someone wants to blame me if something bad happens as a result, well, that's their problem. I'm just not willing to live my life in fear.  No thanks.

Nothing that I've stated should be interpreted as me living a life based on fear. I think of it as having a healthy level of respect for possible outcomes and weighing whether or not I want to live with the outcome. I drink in public regularly. I do not drink in public to the point that I am incapacitated because I'm not prepared to deal with all of the possible outcomes that come from such a decision. Does that mean that I think people should be allowed to take advantage of drunk people? Not at all. It simply means that I recognize that it is far more likely that someone would take advantage of me when I am incapable of caring for myself. As my dad used to tell me "The best revenge is living well."

46 minutes ago, Giddyup said:

Have any of you been out with your friends or coworkers and a physical fight broke out? I never have.

I actually have. About 20 years ago, I worked on a political campaign after college. On election night my candidate won and the entire professional campaign team (basically everyone that got paid to work on the campaign) decamped to a local Irish pub to celebrate. Another patron overheard us talking and began berating us as he supported the other candidate. It started with a lot of drunken hooting and ended with punches being thrown. Imagine the characters from "Veep" in a bar fight. The cops showed up, dusted everyone off and sent everyone home. 

Edited April 24, 2024 by Rlb8031

[lasu]

3 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'm sure that Janice thought that she was standing up for herself when she approached Candiace. After all, she's been the one clowned incessantly on Al Gore's internet. 

She didn't get assaulted as a result of what she felt was standing up for herself though.

 

6 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

Does that mean that I think people should be allowed to take advantage of drunk people? Not at all.

So I'm not putting words in your mouth, are you saying that you wouldn't blame the drunk person for a crime being committed against them, EVEN THOUGH they could have done something (by not getting so drunk) to prevent it?  Because if so, we are on the same page in this circumstance, I just also apply it people becoming violent in a verbal altercation as well.

 

8 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

And Candiace is the one paying therapy bills related to PTSD. 

Which was probably compounded by so many people telling her she was at fault for her own attack.

[Yours Truly]

47 minutes ago, lasu said:

 

 

Which was probably compounded by so many people telling her she was at fault for her own attack.

Maybe, but I'm sure most of it was from getting her head slammed against a table. But you know, being able to throw verbal blows is all worth it. Am I right??? LOL.

Edited April 24, 2024 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

58 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

But let's look at both of these situations with Candiace. In the first one, charges were brought against Monique then ultimately thrown out by the court because they basically determined that this was a childish dispute where both parties were wrong. And in Sesame Street's case, as far as I know there were not even any charges filed. It's great to say the law will take care of it, but actual practice shows that this may not always be the case. And Candiace is the one paying therapy bills related to PTSD. 

 

You point out what I think is most relevant and you make it pretty easy to understand.  

[pasdetrois]

3 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

It's great to say the law will take care of it, but actual practice shows that this may not always be the case.

Many of the original charges (disorderly conduct, assault, domestic violence, etc.) do indeed get thrown out, either due to lack of evidence or plea-bargaining. The judges often choose the worst charge(s) and sentence appropriately, even if it's probation and time-served. Or if both parties in a DV were physically assaulted, their offenses cancel each other out (unless there was critical injury). Still, it's on the record.

Every once in a while a suspect will drunkenly and belatedly realize he/she can kiss that nursing or legal or law enforcement or teaching career (or a security clearance) goodbye.

Quote

Standing up for myself is worth it. 

I agree with this, but it's nuanced. As I age I'm more comfortable with being assertive, directive (at work), even forcefully argumentative. But it's always when there are no other options except walking away, which enables bullies and control freaks. It's justified when something is truly important or there's a gang mentality going on, and if one doesn't lose their cool. I guess we all define "truly important" in different ways.

Edited April 24, 2024 by pasdetrois

[LaurelleJ]

These are all real world examples, right? This is a "reality" television show being taped with the idea that the women will argue. Harsh words, arguing, and shade are not only expected, they are required. I just find it hard to justify physical violence after the verbal sparring you are paid and expected to do. Someone calling me vermin is not enough to get me to risk jail assaulting you. Blatant disrespect (asking my husband if he has Alzheimers) or lying (saying my husband inappropriately touched someone) is worse than being called vermin or the help. 

Edited April 24, 2024 by LaurelleJ

[drivethroo]

11 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I beg to differ. See Youtube. Arguments and insults escalate into physical fights all the time - shoving, slapping, knocking phones out of hands, punching. The weary police intervene.

 When we see these fight videos, the majority of the time the person talking shit first is usually also the person who throws the punches first after they get a clap back from the person they were talking shit to.

That's been the case on this show, too.  The only time that's usually not the case is if the shit talker utters a racial slur.

7 hours ago, Giddyup said:

Bravo seems to encourage this behavior and also encourages a lot of drinking. I am curious about their contracts because I don’t remember any bravolebs getting punished for table flips, hair pulls and other physical acts. 

I think some of the BRAVO lawsuits allege production keeps them plied with alcohol to encourage the bad behavior.

6 hours ago, lasu said:

Monique made a choice to escalate to physical violence over words all by herself. 

As much as we claim Candiace & Wendy let social media gas them up too much, nobody on the cast was gassed up by social media like Monique.  She knew she was wrong for putting her hands on Candiace & told her husband & pastor as much, but Monique's fans have been telling her for YEARS that she was right to assault Candiace and she needs to return to the show to assault Candiace some more.  Mind you, none of the "talk shit get hit" crowd that cheer Monique is actually going oops upside anyone's head in their off-screen lives.

6 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I'm sure that Janice thought that she was standing up for herself when she approached Candiace. After all, she's been the one clowned incessantly on Al Gore's internet.

Debra did a whole IG live with Sesame Street characters making fun of being called Sesame Street. She wasn't standing up for herself.  She wanted to beat Candiace's ass for clout and got the green light from Ashley & production to do it.

2 hours ago, LaurelleJ said:

I just find it hard to justify physical violence after the verbal sparring you are paid and expected to do. Someone calling me vermin is not enough to get me to risk jail assaulting you.

But if you know nothing will happen to you because you were encouraged by production and cast and you think it will gain you more popularity, you're going to do it.

6 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

About 20 years ago, I worked on a political campaign after college. On election night my candidate won and the entire professional campaign team (basically everyone that got paid to work on the campaign) decamped to a local Irish pub to celebrate. Another patron overheard us talking and began berating us as he supported the other candidate. It started with a lot of drunken hooting and ended with punches being thrown.

Who threw the first punch?  Your side, who was minding its' business and celebrating a win or the losing side's staffer, who was shit talking and mad because his guy lost?

It's all a moot point because Candiace and her mouth are gone and won't be back around these people, so we shouldn't be seeing anymore vile mouths or fights on this show.  If we should see reports in the future that Candiace was nasty in the mouth at Wegmans and the person she was nasty to busted her upside the head by the cheese bar, then we can lecture her about her mouth using real world examples.  But even then, I would suspect the person laying hands on her probably talked shit to her first.  I suppose to avoid this, she should just stay in the house indefinitely, as her very existence seems to encourage assaults.

 

Edited April 25, 2024 by drivethroo

[Bronzedog]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:42 PM, drivethroo said:

Gizelle and her crew ran off all the cast members who had other sources of income. So get used to Pork & Bean Pickleball and Driveway Dinners.

They can also go bowling in Twinbrook.  Glenmont could use some publicity, too.  I mean good publicity for a change. 

Edited April 26, 2024 by Bronzedog

[qtpye]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:05 PM, lasu said:

It's not going to be easy to come after her relationship again, because Gordon fell on his sword like it was part of his alimony settlement.  He either truly feels she hasn't done wrong by him and is continuing to be a good friend/partner/co-parent, or he can SERIOUSLY play the game to keep her sipping out of that flute.  I don't know which, but it was impressive either way.

I don't know if this is true but there is a rumor that Mia is stepping on Gizzy's toes because she is revealing all her scandals and that was supposed to be Gizelles' storyline for next season.

Gizzy was supposed to reveal, next season, that Mia's son is not Gordon's child (like she was trying to do with Monique but this time it might be true).

Mia might not be smart but she is crafty.

When I saw Gordon waving and smiling to the man who cuckolded him...I nearly fell out of my seat. That was probably the craziest thing in the whole reunion.

[Chatty Cake]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I don't know if this is true but there is a rumor that Mia is stepping on Gizzy's toes because she is revealing all her scandals and that was supposed to be Gizelles' storyline for next season.

Gizzy was supposed to reveal, next season, that Mia's son is not Gordon's child (like she was trying to do with Monique but this time it might be true).

Mia might not be smart but she is crafty.

When I saw Gordon waving and smiling to the man who cuckolded him...I nearly fell out of my seat. That was probably the craziest thing in the whole reunion.

I thought Gizelle seemed mad about not sitting first chair. I’m almost certain she will turn on Mia next season.

[drivethroo]

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

Gizzy was supposed to reveal, next season, that Mia's son is not Gordon's child (like she was trying to do with Monique but this time it might be true).

Gizelle is the lowest of the low.  I will fall out if Mia is the one who actually brings Gizelle down.

3 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

I thought Gizelle seemed mad about not sitting first chair. I’m almost certain she will turn on Mia next season.

She was very mad. Mia is a slippery rat in survival mode, she might have some tricks up her sleeve for Gizelle.

If the production was smart, they'd explore the animosity between Ashley and Mia because Ashley does not like Mia one bit (game recognizes game).

[Baltimore Betty]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:33 PM, qtpye said:

When I saw Gordon waving and smiling to the man who cuckolded him...I nearly fell out of my seat. That was probably the craziest thing in the whole reunion.

I know! We do find out that Mia and Gordon had an arrangement but she took it to a very strange level which makes me think she and the DJ have been together for way longer than they want us to believe and that Mia and Gordon had called it quits long ago but stay together because of the kids.