S04.E03: In The Beginning

[DittyDotDot]

Castiel sends Dean back to Lawrence in 1973. Can Dean avert the course of events that lead to his mother's death?

 

I have a love/hate relationship with this episode and most of the hate side is not really the episode's fault. I have a general annoyance with most time travel episodes (seems like they are just opportunities to dress people up in retro and/or futuristic gear, but usually don't serve story all that much), but I do think Supernatural pulled this one off marginally well and it does actually serve the story to a certain extent. The other part of the hate--now I'm thinking hate is such a strong word, let's go with dislike--is some of the retconning that's been done in the last few years, with regards to John, makes it harder for me to line up characterizations and makes my head hurt a little when watching it. (I don't want to use spoiler tags, so we'll leave it at that).

 

However, all that is tempered by the actual episode itself. Firstly, I think the casting for this episode was perfect, not only with Matt Coen and Amy Gumenick as John and Mary, but I love Mitch Pileggi and can't imagine anyone else playing this patriarch. And Allison Hossack plays a great Deanna also. The other thing I think they got right is pulling back on the production design so it just wasn't a gag to dress people up; they gave just enough of the time period to set it in-period, but not too much that the gag overtook the story. And, for the most part, events and mythology line up and nothing is torn down or ruined by the time travel, for me. So, in the end, they manage to rise above all the reasons why I usually dislike time travel episodes.

 

I do have a few minor quibbles about the whole "deal" making by Yellow Eyes feeling a little shoehorned in there, but the whole demon blood/psychic kids stuff was never a favorite storyline of mine nor did any of it make a lot of sense in the end, so whatever, right?

[GirlyGeek]

Seriously one of my all time faves, and I could watch the Dean warns Mary scene over and over and never stop being amazed at JA's skills. Just beautiful. And he throws in so many moments like that, such as when his voice breaks just a bit when telling Samuel about Yellow Eyes killing his mom. The lighting and set design is great, and the end, when Cas tells Dean to stop Sam or they will... The lighting is so gorgeous and artfully done.

I always was Ok with the special kids storyline, and I have nothing against Sam having abilities. It's the way he's using them and the secrecy and

letting Ruby yank his chain until he's so far down the road he doesn't know how to get back

that drives me crazy and makes me lose a grip on feeling any empathy for Sam.

[rue721]

Seriously one of my all time faves, and I could watch the Dean warns Mary scene over and over and never stop being amazed at JA's skills. Just beautiful. And he throws in so many moments like that, such as when his voice breaks just a bit when telling Samuel about Yellow Eyes killing his mom. The lighting and set design is great, and the end, when Cas tells Dean to stop Sam or they will... The lighting is so gorgeous and artfully done.

 

Completely agree. I felt like watching this one tonight, just because, and those are the scenes that really stand out to me, too.

 

The entire scene when Dean warns Mary is great imo. I really like how it builds momentum. When Dean first asks Mary what she likes about John, he seemed to me like he was just feeling nostalgic and wanting to enjoy being around his parents, and didn't think it would be a very heavy conversation. And obviously Mary was happy to talk about John. But things already started taking a turn imo when Mary said that John's sweet and optimistic and everything that a hunter isn't, and Dean was really starting to lose it when Mary said that she just wants to be safe and that she'd never want her children raised in that life, and even my heart was breaking a little by the time he was trying to warn her! The actress for young!Mary was fantastic, too. I think that she did a really good job reacting to Dean freaking out. If she had overplayed it, it could have made the whole thing schlocky. But as it was, it was even kind of sadder that she clearly thought that he was reacting to something bad from his past that was none of her business (I guess it was sadder because that was actually kind of true?).

 

When I watched that last time, I was mostly thinking about how ashamed I would expect Dean to feel, hearing Mary say that she'd never want her children to be hunters. It's like, "Oh, you wanted to do the right thing and to be a good man? Well, you're the exact opposite of who your dead sainted mother would have ever wanted her son to be, you SCREW UP." If he was ever going to tell her the truth about what was going on, he sure couldn't after that. I was mostly thinking about the pressure I figured he'd feel, to try and fix things so her husband and children wouldn't *all* end up failing her after all, or at least to hide from her that that was what would happen. But this time, I remembered/knew ahead of time that everything he was doing was futile, and I was thinking mostly about how he knew that she wasn't going to get a single thing she wanted in life. John wasn't the sweet man she loved for much longer, she wasn't safe, and her children would be raised to be hunters. Such a waste of a life.

 

Anyway, yeah, I also liked the scene when Dean tells the YED that he's the one who kills him. He went total crazy eyes for a second there.

 

Another nice touch that I liked is how Samuel, Deanna, and Mary notice right off that something's wrong with him, that he's a little crazy, assume that's to be expected since he's a hunter and I guess hunters are sort of like that by definition, and try to go along with it. I thought that was kind of cool given that this is early in S4, and there was so much focus on something being "off" about Sam (because of the Ruby "mystery") that it was interesting to me to see everyone Dean was around notice that something was "off" about him instead. I also thought that was cool because it was a relatively subtle but imo effective way to emphasize WHY Mary wouldn't want her children or husband to be hunters and what she was trying to preserve in herself by getting out of that life.

 

A nice touch that I like about the show generally is that they've been really pretty consistent about Sam taking after John in his temperament, and it was pretty clear in this episode that Dean takes after Mary. I liked Dean and Mary together in general, I absolutely could believe that they were related, and imo they had a good chemistry.

 

The one thing I could have done without is having Dean and possessed!Samuel both comment on how hot Mary was. I mean, Amy Gumenick *is* super hot, but I found it all kinds of uncomfortable to hear a woman's supposed son and father comment on it like that. Maybe the writers felt like kind of had to say something, to take the elephant out of the room and say out loud that YED wasn't actually going to hook up with Mary (and create Sam-the-Anti-Christ?) and that Dean wasn't going to hook up with Mary, either, but without making it seem like it was because Mary was unattractive or something. But tbh I didn't think that elephant was even in the room, because uh I don't really expect someone to try to get the hook up with his own mom (and she was already in a serious relationship with his dad! maybe Dean's line that she's a babe and he's going to Hell (again) was from Back to the Future or something and I didn't get the reference, though? *shrug*) and I don't really expect the demon who will murder Mary later on and who is a DEMON MADE OF SMOKE ANYWAY to want to get the hookup, either, or frankly to even be able to father a child, anyway. But eh, that was minor. It was just one of those things that made me go EH?!

[AwesomO4000]

maybe Dean's line that she's a babe and he's going to Hell (again) was from Back to the Future or something and I didn't get the reference, though? *shrug*

 

It was at least an homage to "Back to the Future." I'm pretty sure it wasn't a direct quote. But Marty originally thought his Mom was a babe too - and then he found out it was his mom. The joke also was that she had the hots for him and he spent about half the movie trying to avoid her advances.

 

and I don't really expect the demon who will murder Mary later on and who is a DEMON MADE OF SMOKE ANYWAY to want to get the hookup, either, or frankly to even be able to father a child, anyway

 

Well we do find out later that a demon possessing someone is capable of

creating the antichrist which we learn is a potential powerful weapon when Lucifer rises

, and depending on if Mary was

a virgin

, it might have been possible, but no I don't think that's what he would've meant, because he was trying to create his special children

and a host for Lucifer

and we learn later that both Mary and John were needed for that.

[DittyDotDot]

I think this episode, and quite a few others in S4, actually improves with age. I watched this episode with the commentary on last night. It's with Kripke and Carver. Oh boy does it explain a lot about Carver. "I haven't been on the show since the beginning, so I probably don't hold the mythology quite so dear as others." Yes, Carver really did say that.

 

I did find them joking about how Cass was a "hottie with a body" rather charming, though. Actually they were talking about how great a find Misha was, but it was charming how goofy they were being. It's actually a good commentary on Kripke's part, but Carver always tends to come off as not knowing what show he's writing for and generally frustrates me on commentaries. I really should know better by now.

 

A nice touch that I like about the show generally is that they've been really pretty consistent about Sam taking after John in his temperament, and it was pretty clear in this episode that Dean takes after Mary. I liked Dean and Mary together in general, I absolutely could believe that they were related, and imo they had a good chemistry.

 

This was something that really struck me when watching it last night. When Mary and Samuel pulled up to the farmhouse and Mary see's the kid under the tree and goes to talk with him and Samuel is like, "Where are you going?". It was such a Dean moment for me--seeing something that just spoke to her and investigating it. Plus, Amy Gumenick has a very Jensen look on her face at that moment, too. There were quite a few times when I really could see mother and son. It's really interesting given the actors ages and all.

Edited June 19, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

I always was Ok with the special kids storyline, and I have nothing against Sam having abilities. It's the way he's using them and the secrecy and

letting Ruby yank his chain until he's so far down the road he doesn't know how to get back

that drives me crazy and makes me lose a grip on feeling any empathy for Sam.

 

I should really be more clear: it's not Sam having abilities I never cottoned to, but the psychic kids and Yellow Eyes big end-game storyline just was never very interesting to me. In general, these long-running mythologies of big conspiracies and such just don't really work for me. If Yellow Eyes wanted Sam, or any of those kids, all he had to do was take them and have them raised under his tutelage so when the time came they'd probably be more willing to do his bidding without all the foot stomping. As I always say, no long-term villainous plot can't be undone with a little bit of logic and rational thinking. But those are things that just don't belong here, right? ;)

Edited June 19, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[mertensia]

I figure Yellow Eyes just wasn't very good at cause and effect and consequences. Had he not killed Mary the way he did the odds John would have started hunting were nil. Sam would have been easy pickin's for Lucifer after a normalish life with way too much John.

[Dobian]

I thought this was a great epsiode.  I love Mitch Pileggi, and JA just knows how to do those emotionally intense scenes.  I'm also glad they didn't go the Oedipal route with mom getting the hots for Dean.  That was okay for laughs in Back to the Future, but didn't need it here.  I loved the 70s detail with the fashion and the hairstyles, I thought they got it right and didn't overdo it.  Sometimes with time travel stories they get carried away and try to hit the audience over the head that it really is (insert year here).  The bench ad for Tab - nice touch.  I also really liked the overall message from Castiel, that you can travel back in time and change little details but you can't really change the big picture.  Destiny is destiny.  So bittersweet for Dean to see the grandparents he never knew, and to see his parents again, knowing the fate that awaits them.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Dobian

[catrox14]

Dean saying Mary was a babe never once bothered me. He clearly wasn't lusting after his mom and he realized how it sounded is "....and I'm going to Hell......again".   I think it just struck him how she how beautiful, smart, funny, tough and sexy she was because he only remembered her as the mom that made him tomato soup and cut the crust off his PBJ's and burned to death wearing a white nightgown.

 

Goodness knows I've seen pictures of my mom and dad when they were in their teens and early 20's and I thought "Holy shit. Look at those little hotties" and I definitely never wanted to have sex with either one of them :P.

[Hanahope]

The one problem with time-travel stories is that you always wonder if 'the first time' events happened the same way because the person had already come back.  the whole chicken egg thing.  In this case, if "the first time" Dead wasn't there, then how did Mary's parents die?  Without Dean, they never would have gone to Liddy Walsh's house and put yellow eyes onto Mary's past.  So, does that mean Dean always went back to the past?  

Did Dean leave the colt at Mary's parent's house?  Or did he take it with him when he went to find Mary and YED?  If so, what happened to it?  Did Mary pick it up and take it home?  Obviously it made it back to the other hunter someway.

I do agree that Cass had to show Dean the past in order for him to realize there's something more with YED's plan for Sam than just the opened hell gate and leading demons.  I doubt Dean would have listened if Cass had just up and told him something was up with Sam.

[bettername2come]

Ah, the beginning of Castiel's space issues and vague statements. 

Season four was a time of shocking leaps. First angels, then time travel. I always enjoy Supernatural's time travel episodes. I think they're at least pretty consistent with their use of a stable time loop. I love the Back to the Future parallels. I still love the reveal that Mary was a hunter. Up to this point I had thought she might be a witch. I like that Sam and Dean are named after their grandparents, especially that Dean is named after his grandmother. "Family business, Mary." That tagline just won't leave that family alone. Young Mary and John are fantastic. I believe in this version of John so much more than later seasons' version of him. "I want to be safe." God, Mary's story is so tragic. Mitch Pileggi is fantastic as both Samuel and the YED. YED has absolutely no boundaries, does he? I still think it's interesting that they went over a full season without Sam telling Dean about the demon blood. Jensen puts in a fantastic performance throughout the episode, as usual. So the angels do all that just to explain to Dean what the demons did to Sam? Seems excessive.

I'm suddenly very curious what the official police report says regarding Deanna and Samuel's deaths. Murder/suicide probably?

[Iju]

"Sammy, wherever you are, Mom was a babe.

I'm going to Hell."

LMAO golden line for sure.

----

as for me i am so happy they didn't let go of the yellow eyed demon plot and how their mother knew him because i was just scratching my head on it last night. me and sister gasped and froze in shock and terror when john died. talk about PLOT TWIST. i would have never guessed she did a deal with the yellow demon.

so is this season half focused on what exactly he had planned? i am FOR IT. it's KILLING ME that it was never revealed.

jensen barely holding it when mary wanted a simple life was just beautiful, and the slight stutter of saying mary's name when he finally talked was a nice touch.

also his grandfather was possessed during the time, but if dean explained what was going on, would he believe him if he wasn't? all dean would need to do is say "Just look at me" lol. he obviously got his blonde hair from his mother and his handsome looks from his father. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by Iju

[Zipper]

On 3/2/2017 at 8:47 AM, Hanahope said:

In this case, if "the first time" Dead wasn't there, then how did Mary's parents die?  Without Dean, they never would have gone to Liddy Walsh's house and put yellow eyes onto Mary's past.  So, does that mean Dean always went back to the past?  

I've always wondered this, too. And you know, I think my whole lukewarm attitude toward Mary traces back to this episode. The boys' love for her tempers my ... dislike? That might be too strong. But literally every time she appears after this, I think of the selfishness that brought this all about for the boys. And sure, if she didn't make the deal, maybe the show doesn't exist because they aren't highly motivated hunters in a few years. And yes, she winds up sacrificing her life because she didn't heed the warning (no one disturbs me and no one dies / gets hurt). But spare me the deep, meaningful love for John angle, because you know what that kind of love does for most people? Makes them their best selves. Not their demon-bargaining selves. Not when they know that demons are real, and the terror, heartache, and misery they sow is real. I can accept a moment of terrible, terrible judgment but even that makes me have less care for her than I'm probably intended to. If it weren't for how much the boys treasure her (and how well the actress does her work), she would be my very least favorite thing about the whole show. 

[The Companion]

On 9/8/2014 at 7:24 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I have a love/hate relationship with this episode and most of the hate side is not really the episode's fault. I have a general annoyance with most time travel episodes (seems like they are just opportunities to dress people up in retro and/or futuristic gear, but usually don't serve story all that much), but I do think Supernatural pulled this one off marginally well and it does actually serve the story to a certain extent. 

Same. I am not a huge fan of time travel stories, my love of Doctor Who being the exception to the rule. There is this tendency to hit you over the head with it from a costume perspective which is thankfully absent here, other than some minor costume pieces. I will note that the costuming on this show is actually fairly timeless. Unlike my Veronica Mars watch (which was like a time capsule of 2000s fashion with the low rise jeans and the plaid skirts and the chokers), things rarely look out of place today.

There is also this tendency to have the time traveling character say things that make no sense to anyone but the audience. They didn't overuse that trope. 

I think this episode struck a good balance, using what the audience knew to have some really great emotional beats (just want a normal life, don't want my kids to grow up as hunters, etc.) without overusing it.

On 3/11/2015 at 2:16 AM, rue721 said:

The entire scene when Dean warns Mary is great imo. I really like how it builds momentum. When Dean first asks Mary what she likes about John, he seemed to me like he was just feeling nostalgic and wanting to enjoy being around his parents, and didn't think it would be a very heavy conversation. And obviously Mary was happy to talk about John. But things already started taking a turn imo when Mary said that John's sweet and optimistic and everything that a hunter isn't, and Dean was really starting to lose it when Mary said that she just wants to be safe and that she'd never want her children raised in that life, and even my heart was breaking a little by the time he was trying to warn her! The actress for young!Mary was fantastic, too. I think that she did a really good job reacting to Dean freaking out. If she had overplayed it, it could have made the whole thing schlocky. But as it was, it was even kind of sadder that she clearly thought that he was reacting to something bad from his past that was none of her business (I guess it was sadder because that was actually kind of true?).

When I watched that last time, I was mostly thinking about how ashamed I would expect Dean to feel, hearing Mary say that she'd never want her children to be hunters. It's like, "Oh, you wanted to do the right thing and to be a good man? Well, you're the exact opposite of who your dead sainted mother would have ever wanted her son to be, you SCREW UP." If he was ever going to tell her the truth about what was going on, he sure couldn't after that. I was mostly thinking about the pressure I figured he'd feel, to try and fix things so her husband and children wouldn't *all* end up failing her after all, or at least to hide from her that that was what would happen. But this time, I remembered/knew ahead of time that everything he was doing was futile, and I was thinking mostly about how he knew that she wasn't going to get a single thing she wanted in life. John wasn't the sweet man she loved for much longer, she wasn't safe, and her children would be raised to be hunters. Such a waste of a life.

Anyway, yeah, I also liked the scene when Dean tells the YED that he's the one who kills him. He went total crazy eyes for a second there.

Another nice touch that I liked is how Samuel, Deanna, and Mary notice right off that something's wrong with him, that he's a little crazy, assume that's to be expected since he's a hunter and I guess hunters are sort of like that by definition, and try to go along with it. I thought that was kind of cool given that this is early in S4, and there was so much focus on something being "off" about Sam (because of the Ruby "mystery") that it was interesting to me to see everyone Dean was around notice that something was "off" about him instead. I also thought that was cool because it was a relatively subtle but imo effective way to emphasize WHY Mary wouldn't want her children or husband to be hunters and what she was trying to preserve in herself by getting out of that life.

Agree with all this. They hit just the right emotional beats and kept it from being overdone. It is so sad to watch and know she will only get it for a little while. The houses, the kids, the husband. 

Some additional thoughts:

- I loved that she named the boys after her parents. It was a sweet touch

- Castiel talks about destiny being unchangeable but then says they don't know where Sam's path leads. This feels like a contradiction. My guess is either there are certain points that can't be changed (like fixed points in time in Doctor Who) or you can't change your own timeline. I suspect we will delve much deeper in the future on this

- one of the places I thought they missed the mark was Dean talking his dad into the car. None of the information he gave his Dad should have been new information to a mechanic. I don't know. It just felt a little WINK WINK, AUDIENCE. 

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, The Companion said:

- one of the places I thought they missed the mark was Dean talking his dad into the car. None of the information he gave his Dad should have been new information to a mechanic. I don't know. It just felt a little WINK WINK, AUDIENCE. 

I don't think he was talking him into the car so much as talking him out of the van (which he 'promised' someone he would buy). John knew and agreed with all Dean said about the Impala.

My favourite thing was Dean saying he was going to hell again for thinking his mom was a babe. And of course the iconic conversation with Mary about staying in bed on November 2, 1983 😢

[The Companion]

11 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't think he was talking him into the car so much as talking him out of the van (which he 'promised' someone he would buy). John knew and agreed with all Dean said about the Impala.

My favourite thing was Dean saying he was going to hell again for thinking his mom was a babe. And of course the iconic conversation with Mary about staying in bed on November 2, 1983 😢

On the Impala, it is largely my dislike of time travel episodes. 

Bless his heart. As if telling a Winchester not to rush into danger has ever worked. 

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, The Companion said:

On the Impala, it is largely my dislike of time travel episodes.

Lol, that truly is ironic, given your screen name. 

[The Companion]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Lol, that truly is ironic, given your screen name. 

Yes, as acknowledged my love of Doctor Who makes me a hypocrite on this point. 😆 I do prefer the running around in space ship bits, but my love of River Song means I am a total contradiction. Doctor Who spoiler below.

Spoiler

The Impala scene reminds me of the scene where Clara tells the Doctor to take the TARDIS, which I also hated. There is this "see what we did there?" aspect that annoys me. 

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, The Companion said:

Yes, as acknowledged my love of Doctor Who makes me a hypocrite on this point. 😆 I do prefer the running around in space ship bits, but my love of River Song means I am a total contradiction. Doctor Who spoiler below.

  Reveal spoiler

The Impala scene reminds me of the scene where Clara tells the Doctor to take the TARDIS, which I also hated. There is this "see what we did there?" aspect that annoys me. 

I hate time travel also, but I loved this episode, and the Back to the Future movies.  I don't really think that makes me a hypocrite, so much as having "exceptions to the rule."

[The Companion]

17 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I hate time travel also, but I loved this episode, and the Back to the Future movies.  I don't really think that makes me a hypocrite, so much as having "exceptions to the rule."

Oh that was definitely meant in a joking manner.