S05.E19: Owing Pains

[Scarlett45]

Quote

Kim believes she's ready for what's next as TJ's wife until her first lesson with his mum. Shekinah learns that Sarper wants to have a baby. Mary has second thoughts about marrying Brandan. Yohan blindsides Daniele with a life-changing decision.

Air Date: November 13, 2023

[anoninrva]

I'm having a hard time following Danielle and Yohan.  They're paying for shipping on cheap toys to the DR from the US?  Why?  It was also hard to buy that they'd been fine for two months and all of a sudden the exact same "what have you done for me lately" argument comes up while they're doing their Santa's naughty elf cosplay.

[1011101010001]

So I guess Johan lived rent free with his parents and could spend whatever he earned as a personal trainer or later at the butcher shop on himself.  But now all the money goes to rent so he feels like he is worse off?  But it is a much nicer place so he is getting something out of it.  Although living with that little shrew would be taxing. Will Danielle call the police and say Santa stole my dog?

Edited November 14, 2023 by MrBuhBye

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

So I guess Johan lived rent free with his parents and could spend whatever he earned as a personal trainer or later at the butcher shop on himself.  But now all the money goes to rent so he feels like he is worse off?  But it is a much nicer place so he is getting something out of it.  Although living with that little shrew would be taxing. Will Danielle call the police and say Santa stole my dog?

Essentially Yohan married her for a financial come up and she hasn’t delivered. He could live with his parents and siblings, have fun and continue to look for a woman who can give him the life he wants rather than splitting bills with Danielle. Yes the place is nicer but so? He’s stuck there. He doesn’t really care about having a nice place in the interim, he’s trying to improve his long term prospects. 
 

Personally I think it’s petty and stupid AF for Danielle to say “I bought these clothes you can’t take them.” Danielle can’t wear his clothes! She bought them for HIM to wear, they are HIS. It’s also awful for him to take the dog, but she started the “I paid for it.” business. 

[suzeecat]

So, Yohan doesn't want to work just to pay bills.  What did he think life would be like in the US?

Brandan's mom bonding with Mary and giving sage advice - I didn't see that coming!

[anoninrva]

6 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

So I guess Johan lived rent free with his parents and could spend whatever he earned as a personal trainer or later at the butcher shop on himself.  But now all the money goes to rent so he feels like he is worse off?  But it is a much nicer place so he is getting something out of it.  Although living with that little shrew would be taxing. Will Danielle call the police and say Santa stole my dog?

I think he had few expenses with his parents, but what is not explicitly discussed here is that Danielle is used to a much higher standard of living than Yohan, and he just can't meet her 50/50 financially (although, granted, it would help if he tried).   That's one of the few elements of their storyline that feels like it rings true, besides perhaps his third leg..

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, suzeecat said:

So, Yohan doesn't want to work just to pay bills.  What did he think life would be like in the US?

Brandan's mom bonding with Mary and giving sage advice - I didn't see that coming!

Working in the US would seem like a long term financial gain- he would make enough to send money home to his parents and siblings. Essentially Danielle hasn’t improved his lifestyle in the manner she agreed when she married him- she’s not wealthy enough to buy him a home or car outright and expects him to contribute financially. He wanted to come to the USA and improve his life/that of his family. Renting a “nice” apartment in the DR is a waste to him. Also he’s stuck having to be with Danielle rather than trying to find a more advantageous relationship. 
 

I also think Yohan thought she had more money than she had. I know people have different opinions on attractiveness etc, but if Danielle HAD a great deal of money, I think she would’ve had her pick of men IN the USA, and not have to be a passport girlie. Her only child is grown, she’s only in her early 40s, if she was financially stable, plenty of similarly situated men (her age with older kids) would be interested in dating her. 

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, suzeecat said:

Brandan's mom bonding with Mary and giving sage advice - I didn't see that coming!

I think she is hoping to clear up the mess that her son is in. 

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I think she is hoping to clear up the mess that her son is in. 

Brandon’s Mom has a lot of guilt (most of it justified given what we know of his upbringing and her addiction) but I think she does want to “make it right” as much as she can. She knows that she can’t get those years with Brandon back but she wants to be a  good Mom to him now, and she wants him to be happy and at peace. 
 

Mary is pregnant so they are tied together forever. The last thing I think Brandon’s Mom wants is for her grand daughter to have the same tumultuous childhood that both Mary and Brandon had. 

[Stuckathome]

A nice apartment is a waste in Yohan's mind....he didnt' realize how broke AF Danielle really is and was imagining a lux lifestyle without really needing to work. He could hang out with his buddies drinking, working out, checking out women on the beach, then come home to his sugar mama who would just be so grateful for his huge dick she wouldn't make any demands. He is frustrated that her money doesn't even stretch far enough to cover their expenses---if he didnt' have to put in any money, I am sure he wouldn't mind living in a nice condo, but it isn't his number one priority. As other said, he has seen friends find better marks who either take them to the US or just bankroll a plush life in the DR. He bet on the wrong gringa.  

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Did anyone else think Yash was enjoying himself a little too much? Given his level of English proficiency, he likely knows a typical American would be repulsed at ever handling cow dung, let burning it in an indoor kitchen. His obvious disdain of Kimberly is coming through loud and clear. And the mom is similarly done coddling her. The Scream of Doom™ comes closer with each episode.

The Sarper and Shekinah storyline is a waste of time. He wants Shekinah to bear his child and is unwilling to compromise. She doesn't want to bear another child and is unwilling to compromise. There's no getting around this.

Danielle and Yohan continue to be mutually awful. I just hope this season is either's final appearance on my TV.

[1011101010001]

Yohan has always been transparent that he wants to come to the US.  He states it in interviews, he tells it directly to Danielle.  Once he found out she defrauded him into marriage with no intentions of honoring her promise to bring him to the US, he should have left her at that time.  I guess he thought he could persuade her so decided to invest a few months doing that before walking away.  I do agree with Danielle that with his lack of English and education he would be hard pressed to cover his living expenses in the  US much less send money back to his family.  Although Pedro was able to do so, so maybe outside NYC.  

1 minute ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

He wants Shekinah to bear his child

You’d think if his number one goal is a child he would choose a younger woman.  Not only is it more difficult for Shekinah to conceive but there is a much higher risk of birth defects at her age.  And I don’t imagine he would be a compassionate dad to a special needs child.

[Gobi]

Sarper: “I’ll always be there for my child! Just ask my son, what’s his name.”

[Scarlett45]

54 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

You’d think if his number one goal is a child he would choose a younger woman.  Not only is it more difficult for Shekinah to conceive but there is a much higher risk of birth defects at her age.  And I don’t imagine he would be a compassionate dad to a special needs child.

Yes. If someone is dating a woman who’s 40 and already has a child, I’m assuming he doesn’t want biological children of his own (or more biological children). 
 

But I’ve found that many men don’t spend much time thinking about this. Given women are the ones with the uterus and socially still do most of the childcare, we are more aware of what it takes and the limitations along with prenatal & postnatal difficulties- even if we don’t want children (or more children). 
 

Remember when Yohan told Danielle, “you can’t give me a baby naturally”- that was so foul. 1. That’s never an appropriate thing to say, 2. She’s over FOURTY (which you knew when you married her), what did you expect dude???!!! Yes of course there are women that conceive naturally after 40, but they are the exception not the rule. 

[Quof]

5 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Just ask my son, what’s his name.

You mean "Who'sIt What'sHisName". Since both his given name and surname are unknown. 

[libgirl2]

46 minutes ago, Quof said:

You mean "Who'sIt What'sHisName". Since both his given name and surname are unknown. 

Maybe he does know it but won't say it on the show? 

[Quof]

Nope - he says he never knew the woman's last name. 

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Quof said:

Nope - he says he never knew the woman's last name. 

then how could he know he has a kid? 

[1011101010001]

2 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

then how could he know he has a kid? 

She emailed him but he deleted it and then when he changed his mind had no way to contact her.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, MrBuhBye said:

She emailed him but he deleted it and then when he changed his mind had no way to contact her.

I  missed that. 

[anoninrva]

4 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

She emailed him but he deleted it and then when he changed his mind had no way to contact her.

Assuming that's all we know - and I'm skeptical - how would he know the gender of the child, or if she even carried it to term?

[1011101010001]

2 hours ago, anoninrva said:

Assuming that's all we know - and I'm skeptical - how would he know the gender of the child, or if she even carried it to term?

I don’t remember if it was when she was pregnant or after the birth.

[Dixiesoul]

I REALLY don't like Danielle, but Yohan is an asshole

[Scout Finch]

Although I understood why Mary and Brandon's mom didn't want to hug the first moment they met, when they were in the church I was hoping she'd give Mary a big motherly hug. It was really touching to see the positive shift in their relationship, though, even if it's primarily being in agreement about Brandon's lazy ass!

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Scout Finch

[renatae]

I was surprised Brandon's mom was so understanding (I hope) to Mary. Hopefully she really will tell Brandon to shape up, and is not just pretending.

Cow dung purifier? Same cloth used on wok? No way! I don't blame Kim at all, and I dont think her reaction was unreasonable in tone or in any other way. She seems to be adapting, finally, but she doesn't have to adapt to that. He shouldn't have hidden that stuff from her. And what does his brother have to do with this?

What is with Yohan? She's no prize, but his whole bit seems to be "Gimme." Bye, you lazy dude. Why did your job disappear? Probably because of this attitude.

Sarper will forget her in two days? Obviously has done no internal work. And guess what, dummy, what your mother wants is not a good reason to have a child.

[Stuckathome]

2 hours ago, renatae said:

And what does his brother have to do with this?

My theory (just based on speculation) is that TJ's brother is jealous.....there is something seriously "off" about that family. What do TJ and his brother do for work again? It seems odd to me that neither son was already matched up in an arranged marriage. That the parents sleep apart and the mother brow beats her husband so openly (tv cameras around FFS). It just seems like such a different dynamic than we saw for Jenny and Sumit with his family, for example. I assume the family is lower middle class (and who knows what caste they belong to, the caste system still unofficially being a thing in India) and marriage to a white foreigner, especially an American that could sponsor TJ for the golden green card, is a major "win" for the family. Yosh is jealous and maybe secretly has the hots for Kimberly and her "wild" ways (oh, those scandalous jeans, lol). 

[suzeecat]

I'm really sick of all these men who expect the woman to just agree to children, like it's equivalent to adopting a puppy.  Children are a wonderful expression of a loving relationship and an intrinsic part of life.  However, men ALWAYS have the ability to walk away if they change their mind or decide it's not working out.  A woman has so much more to consider - her career (ability to support herself if left with a child and no support), her health, motherhood affects so many, yes, every aspect of a woman's life and identity.  Men like Rob, Yohan and Sarper (and so many others) have no right insisting that it be a part of the relationship package with the ladies.  Of course, the fact that these nitwits don't seem to have that conversation until just before they propose - sheesh!!!

[kirklandia]

I knew that dried animal dung is burned as fuel in many parts of the world.  While reading more about it, I found this.

Edited November 15, 2023 by kirklandia

[libgirl2]

19 minutes ago, kirklandia said:

I knew that dried animal dung is burned as fuel in many parts of the world.  While reading more about it, I found this.

People burned buffalo chips back in the day. 

[1011101010001]

1 hour ago, suzeecat said:

I'm really sick of all these men who expect the woman to just agree to children, like it's equivalent to adopting a puppy.  Children are a wonderful expression of a loving relationship and an intrinsic part of life.  However, men ALWAYS have the ability to walk away if they change their mind or decide it's not working out.  A woman has so much more to consider - her career (ability to support herself if left with a child and no support), her health, motherhood affects so many, yes, every aspect of a woman's life and identity.  Men like Rob, Yohan and Sarper (and so many others) have no right insisting that it be a part of the relationship package with the ladies.  Of course, the fact that these nitwits don't seem to have that conversation until just before they propose - sheesh!!!

Sarper’s dad said women have a duty to provide a child if the man wants one.  He can fuck off with that shit.

[Stuckathome]

16 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

I don’t remember if it was when she was pregnant or after the birth.

He said she told him he had a son, so I assume this was after the birth. It was such a strange story----spent a week with a Russian woman is how he phrased it. Something in the way he talked about it sort of sounded like he worked as a prostitute---I mean, was he on vacation? Was she on vacation and they just hooked up the entire time she was there? And he deleted the email and never looked back----honestly, who knows if the baby even really existed, or if it was a scam or if he did exist, if Sarper was the real father. He is such a meathead, what if he is working himself up in knots over his "lost son" and this person doesn't even exist. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Stuckathome said:

He said she told him he had a son, so I assume this was after the birth. It was such a strange story----spent a week with a Russian woman is how he phrased it. Something in the way he talked about it sort of sounded like he worked as a prostitute---I mean, was he on vacation? Was she on vacation and they just hooked up the entire time she was there? And he deleted the email and never looked back----honestly, who knows if the baby even really existed, or if it was a scam or if he did exist, if Sarper was the real father. He is such a meathead, what if he is working himself up in knots over his "lost son" and this person doesn't even exist. 

I agree. 
 

Also Sarper is 42 (approx), if he wanted a child he could’ve had one at any time. A part of me things this is just a storyline BUT Shekinah’s reaction seems genuine. 

[TeapotWakeen]

If my boyfriend ever said to me "I could forget you in 2 days!" I'd be all "Bet." and be outta there. There is no, none, ZERO chance of coming back from that. EVER. 

[lightninggirl]

Yohan is a petulant spoilt brat, BUT Daniele totally pulled a bait-n-switch on him. Sure, he was probably preying on her with the expectation that she'd give into his every whim and also move him to NYC where he never had to learn English and could work somewhere that required little effort. My friend is married to a similar Dominican (they separated in 2020, and will probably divorce early next year) and she moved him to her country & got him naturalised. I have another guy friend from the DR and all he does is bitch about guys from the DR. 😂 He hates guys like Yohan's friend who think that American women are just there as a walking ATM. Yohan having that expectation is bullshit but he didn't deserve to have the wool pulled over his eyes like that.

Daniele: "I've given you everything I have!!" Um, did you give him your DEBT? Honey, you deserve everything that's happening to you right now. You were dumb enough to think that you could dupe the guy who only wanted you for your wallet.

And to echo a previous commenter - WHAT do TJ and Yosh do for a living? Seems a little sketch. And TJ leaving Kimberly along with Yosh and his mother was a total dick move. The only person who can translate and communicate with Kimberly is Yosh? Fuck that. I love when she said "I don't want my house to smell like a petting zoo." Girl, same.

I can't tell is this whole baby thing with Sarper is fabricated for the show or if he's stupid enough to 'forget' to mention that having a baby was a deal-breaker. I'm thinking it's the latter.

[Shrek]

We learnt in (I think) episode 1 that TJ worked doing voiceovers, no idea about his brother though.

[Stuckathome]

16 hours ago, Shrek said:

TJ worked doing voiceovers

probably pays as much as being a clairvoyant in Muscle Shoals, Alabama lol

[1011101010001]

1 hour ago, Stuckathome said:

as being a clairvoyant

You’d think she’d be used to bullshit so I don’t know why she objected to them burning it.

[HorrrGoodnight]

Daniele thought she was soooo smart and would have her way with Yohan in the DR, but the man is ice cold baby 🥶

[Stuckathome]

I sort of understand what she means when she tells Yohan, I have given you EVERYTHING. Because to her, he has upgraded to a nicer apartment, they seem to have nice things, a sweet dog, and each other. They have food and a roof over their heads and I don't see Yohan you know, working, or stressing to pay those bills. He acts like a spoiled teenager. He wants to marry her and boom, pay for a new house, a new car (at the very inflated prices), he wants lots of flash and cash to show off. She did pull a bait and switch with the green card adn it is coming back to bite her in her ample butt, but he is VERY cold. 

[libgirl2]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:30 AM, Stuckathome said:

I sort of understand what she means when she tells Yohan, I have given you EVERYTHING. Because to her, he has upgraded to a nicer apartment, they seem to have nice things, a sweet dog, and each other. They have food and a roof over their heads and I don't see Yohan you know, working, or stressing to pay those bills. He acts like a spoiled teenager. He wants to marry her and boom, pay for a new house, a new car (at the very inflated prices), he wants lots of flash and cash to show off. She did pull a bait and switch with the green card adn it is coming back to bite her in her ample butt, but he is VERY cold. 

There are people in DR living out on the streets, children. There are people living in wooden shanties or partially built home with a tarp for a roof. Yohan is living quite well in that apartment, he isn't out selling cheap crap in the streets. Sure she promised him more but he is doing living pretty well all things considered. They are both a mess. 

[Scarlett45]

22 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

There are people in DR living out on the streets, children. There are people living in wooden shanties or partially built home with a tarp for a roof. Yohan is living quite well in that apartment, he isn't out selling cheap crap in the streets. Sure she promised him more but he is doing living pretty well all things considered. They are both a mess. 

Yeah- but Yohan isn’t for sale. If he is he sets his own “price”- not Danielle, but she doesn’t want to meet the agreement he has the right to go back and live with his parents if he wants (and be free to catch another wife who can give him the lifestyle he wants). 
 

Danielle thought she could buy him “cheaply” and he would be grateful. He is an entitled cruel jerk. I do believe she has actual feelings for him (more than he for her), but yes they are both a mess and horrid humans. It’s an example of what happens when people marry for reasons that aren’t disclosed. 
 

I’ve noticed many of the USC on this show assume because they improved someone’s lifestyle they get their way in the relationship 100% of the time. Rarely does it work out that way. 

[libgirl2]

7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

 

I’ve noticed many of the USC on this show assume because they improved someone’s lifestyle they get their way in the relationship 100% of the times. Rarely does it work out that way. 

Very true, she doesn't own him. Again, they are a mess.