Escaping Twin Flames

[DanaK]

Netflix 3-part doc series premiering November 8

Quote

In our digital era, why not turn to the internet to find your soulmate? Enter Jeff and Shaleia, the leaders of Twin Flames Universe who sell online classes that guarantee harmonious union with your destined partner. From the Emmy-nominated filmmaking team behind Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult, comes Escaping Twin Flames, a three-part documentary series that pulls back the veil on Twin Flames Universe, a controversial online community that preys on people looking for love.

With exclusive access to former members, the series reveals the horrifying stories of coercion and exploitation surrounding Twin Flames Universe – from encouraging stalking behavior to manipulating gender identities. The series also documents the active efforts of family members to rescue their loved ones from Jeff and Shaleia’s web.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by DanaK

[luckyroll3]

I watched this on Amazon Prime a couple weeks ago! It was fucking bonkers!

I really need some people to discuss with.

[DanaK]

18 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I watched this on Amazon Prime a couple weeks ago! It was fucking bonkers!

I really need some people to discuss with.

You mean Amazon’s version of it? Go ahead and make a topic for it (Amazon version)

[luckyroll3]

37 minutes ago, DanaK said:

You mean Amazon’s version of it? Go ahead and make a topic for it (Amazon version)

Oh, is it a different show?!?!? I just assumed they were showing the same show on different platforms for some reason. 

Just looked at the names and Amazon's is "Escaping Twin Flames Universe." No wonder I was confused!

Now I guess I got to watch this one too.....

[EdnasEdibles]

I just finished the first episode of this last night and if you enjoy the first episode and haven't listened to the Wondery Podcast - listen tot hat as well because I am 90% sure that the woman they interview who was in the car accident and her boyfriend dumped her? I think the boyfriend is featured in the podcast and his version of the story and her version of the story are VERY different. 

I was listening to her talk on the docuseries and she was like "I just happened to be at the club" and "I was hanging out with his roommate who was a friend" and that is absolutely not the way he tells it on the podcast (ep 3 Honey Badger of Love, Twin Flames podcast).

So far, I'm enjoying this series way more than the Prime one. I listened to the podcast first, then found the Prime movie and then a friend told me about this and I didn't even know it existed. 

My heart also breaks watching the 19 year old in the first ep (I'm terrible with names) but good lord you can see in her body language how scared and miserable she is with her older "twin flame" boyfriend. 

[For Cereals]

Still fascinated by cults and how people get pulled in especially by these two delusional wackadoodles.  Does Shaleia do anything?  She’s probably the better grifter of the two because she just seems to sit there and nod and play with her makeup and hair choices.

Definitely going to check out the podcast.

[Sodium Feast]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:11 AM, For Cereals said:

Still fascinated by cults and how people get pulled in especially by these two delusional wackadoodles.  Does Shaleia do anything?  She’s probably the better grifter of the two because she just seems to sit there and nod and play with her makeup and hair choices.

Definitely going to check out the podcast.

You are being unfair to Shaleia. She does do something! She repeats the last word Jeff says. All. Of. The. Time. 
I found this series much better than the Amazon one. 
I continue to be amazed at people falling for these grifters, where’s the charisma? What am I missing? 

[zenithwit]

I just finished all three episodes and this was really interesting!  I'll have to check out the Amazon one.

Specifically, it was interesting watching Jeff and Shaleia essentially run a cult over Zoom.  Between that and the new age-y spirituality stuff and supposedly being LGBTQ+ "friendly", it felt like a "modern" version of a cult. 

Another interesting aspect of this is that since they haven't taken the step of physical proximity yet, we are seeing a bit more of the initial foundation of the cult.  Once they all move in together, that's when the really scary stuff begins.  Hoping that they don't reach that point. It seems that they recorded most of their "classes".  So hopefully this will provide the authorities with enough evidence for an investigation and criminal charges.   And maybe we'll get a follow up in a couple years?

One thing I liked about this docuseries is that seemingly whenever I had a question, the show answered it.  For example, towards the end of episode 1/beginning of episode 2, I started wondering why Jeff and Shaleia were pushing their followers to pursue people outside the cult (especially since most of those people were either not aware of the cult or had rejected the cult and its beliefs).  It just seemed they were setting up their followers for failure and was kinda a bad business practice.  And then poof! We get the list with the 20 or so internal twin flame "matches". 

Another example was I starting to think to myself "this is kinda like NXIVM" - especially with all of the classes upon classes, private coaching and the mirror exercise felt similar to some of the NXIVM teachings.  And then boom! We find out that Jeff actually commanded Keely and others to research NXIVM lol.  Of course it was under the guise of "proving" he wasn't a cult leader but all it proved is that Jeff is a wannabe Keith Raniere.  If I was Keely/the mothers/others, I would pay close attention to how NXIVM developed and how Keith Raniere controlled his group because I seriously think that's Jeff's playbook.  I genuinely do not think Jeff and Shaleia are that creative and Jeff isn't nearly as effective/articulate as Keith (who's seriously a scary cult leader), so hopefully this cult will be shut down.

Thinking about it more, I'm kinda surprised when they did the 20 twin flames "matches" that they didn't come up some random vision saying that since Jeff is the divine "chosen one", he can have multiple soul mates.  And then start matching up all of the straight women with him.  Though the 20 match thing was pretty clunky and they lost a few deep followers over it so I doubt they could have pulled off a multi-soulmate scheme.

A few more random thoughts:

- Keely showed a level of remorse and accountability that is unusual for high ranking cult members.  While she acknowledges how she fell victim to the programming, she also takes responsibility for her own abusive behavior in enforcing the cult hierarchy.  She seemed genuinely sorry for her actions.  I hope she'll get to speak to her sister one day even if her sister does not (understandably) forgive her.

- Switzerland is expensive!  And it's tough for Americans to find jobs there.  I hope Kiran ("twin flame" of Stephanie the real-life twin) is loaded.

- And...

On 11/10/2023 at 9:35 AM, EdnasEdibles said:

I was listening to her talk on the docuseries and she was like "I just happened to be at the club" and "I was hanging out with his roommate who was a friend" and that is absolutely not the way he tells it on the podcast (ep 3 Honey Badger of Love, Twin Flames podcast).

Yeah, Elle's story did not add up for me.  Maybe the night club thing was a coincidence but it just felt like she wasn't telling the whole truth about the situation.

Edited November 13, 2023 by zenithwit

[Vivigirl10]

In doing some quick online research, I was super disappointed to find out that it appears the group is as strong as ever.  Even more horrifying is that Shaleia and Jeff had their baby.  I can't believe Child Protective Services wouldn't be called in to monitor them based off of this documentary and their statements about how the baby would be raised.  Absolutely disgusting.  

There were some pretty darned likeable people that got wrapped up in this mess.  It's so sad to think about what must have been lacking inside of them that needed to be filled.  

[EdnasEdibles]

10 hours ago, zenithwit said:

Another interesting aspect of this is that since they haven't taken the step of physical proximity yet, we are seeing a bit more of the initial foundation of the cult.  Once they all move in together, that's when the really scary stuff begins.  Hoping that they don't reach that point. It seems that they recorded most of their "classes".  So hopefully this will provide the authorities with enough evidence for an investigation and criminal charges.   And maybe we'll get a follow up in a couple years?

 . . . 

Another example was I starting to think to myself "this is kinda like NXIVM" - especially with all of the classes upon classes, private coaching and the mirror exercise felt similar to some of the NXIVM teachings.  And then boom! We find out that Jeff actually commanded Keely and others to research NXIVM lol.  Of course it was under the guise of "proving" he wasn't a cult leader but all it proved is that Jeff is a wannabe Keith Raniere.  If I was Keely/the mothers/others, I would pay close attention to how NXIVM developed and how Keith Raniere controlled his group because I seriously think that's Jeff's playbook.  I genuinely do not think Jeff and Shaleia are that creative and Jeff isn't nearly as effective/articulate as Keith (who's seriously a scary cult leader), so hopefully this cult will be shut down.

 . . . 

Yeah, Elle's story did not add up for me.  Maybe the night club thing was a coincidence but it just felt like she wasn't telling the whole truth about the situation.

You are onto something. When they all move in together, I have no doubt now that Jeff will have multiple soulmates. I also suspect that this is when things are going to get sexually dicey in a lot of ways. The gay couples will need children and I suspect that younger females of childbearing age are going to be forced to conceive and carry these babies. It's going to get BAD when they move in together. 

Keith from NXIVM seemed to want money and power. Jeff seems to want money, power and to fuck with people. There's something that's just an extra level of sadistic with Jeff. He seems to enjoy what he can do to torture people. 

As for Elle

Spoiler

She really tormented that guy for a long time according to the podcast. She followed him to Europe. She forced her way into his apartment and wouldn't leave. She followed him everywhere. There was no "We happened to be at the same club" -  it was long-term stalking pure and simple. On the podcast he breaks down a little when he talks about how scared he was and how he had no idea what she would do. She was in jail for a year for a very good reason and not just because she happened to be in the same club as him once. This poor guy was severely stalked for a long time. 

 

[luckyroll3]

On 11/13/2023 at 3:57 AM, zenithwit said:

I started wondering why Jeff and Shaleia were pushing their followers to pursue people outside the cult (especially since most of those people were either not aware of the cult or had rejected the cult and its beliefs).  It just seemed they were setting up their followers for failure and was kinda a bad business practice.  And then poof! We get the list with the 20 or so internal twin flame "matches".

The matches were more of a last ditch effort to keep their followers! The original matches weren't working, because Jeff and Shaleia were pushing the members, like Elle, to stalk their "Twin Flames". In the Amazon one, they shared how 2 of the early members had found each other and they were the example of "You, too, can find your twin flame and experience the happiness they have!" But after almost 2 years, they were the ONLY ones who were in a successful relationship and folks were getting disillusioned. And then POOF, "here's the list of matches, given to us by BEEBUS, and oh look, we can connect you directly to them because they're members too! Oh, and don't worry if you're both the same sex, but neither of you is gay. The divine communicated to me that one of you should change your gender to make this work." Just some devious crazy shit!

[cmfran]

On 11/13/2023 at 2:50 PM, EdnasEdibles said:

You are onto something. When they all move in together, I have no doubt now that Jeff will have multiple soulmates. I also suspect that this is when things are going to get sexually dicey in a lot of ways. The gay couples will need children and I suspect that younger females of childbearing age are going to be forced to conceive and carry these babies. It's going to get BAD when they move in together. 

Keith from NXIVM seemed to want money and power. Jeff seems to want money, power and to fuck with people. There's something that's just an extra level of sadistic with Jeff. He seems to enjoy what he can do to torture people. 

As for Elle

  Hide contents

She really tormented that guy for a long time according to the podcast. She followed him to Europe. She forced her way into his apartment and wouldn't leave. She followed him everywhere. There was no "We happened to be at the same club" -  it was long-term stalking pure and simple. On the podcast he breaks down a little when he talks about how scared he was and how he had no idea what she would do. She was in jail for a year for a very good reason and not just because she happened to be in the same club as him once. This poor guy was severely stalked for a long time. 

 

If their "compound" ever gets built, I'm sure Jeff's goal is to have sex with/impregnate as many of the members as possible. That seems to be the goal of almost every cult leader.

Another thing that mystified me is that Jeff and Shaleia seemed to have no problem telling their followers how wealthy they were making them. Even aside from the Insta pics of her modeling designer clothing, he actually told everyone repeatedly how rich they were from this. And nobody seemed to care or understand that it's all just a grift.

As bad as it all is, they don't seem to be breaking any laws, so they'll just get to keep doing what they're doing.

[luckyroll3]

If I didn't already think Jeff and Shaelia were crazy, I certainly would after all that talk about their Third Flame/Baby Grace. What in the hell kinda cuckoo bananas bullshit was that?

If the moms and the "escapees" really wanted the authorities to care, they need to get evidence on tax-related shit. Let the IRS handle this. They never fucking miss....

[Zima]

I don't understand the grounding diet thing that made all the women fat. Does Jeff have a thing for fat women? As others have said, I totally see this devolving into him having multiple twin flames. 

[EdnasEdibles]

26 minutes ago, Zima said:

I don't understand the grounding diet thing that made all the women fat. Does Jeff have a thing for fat women? As others have said, I totally see this devolving into him having multiple twin flames. 

I honestly think he's just a sadist and enjoys knowing he can fuck with people. I don't think he likes women at all - or men. I think he just wants to see what he can make people do. 

[tennisgurl]

I will definitely have to listen to the podcast, this was really interesting, albeit in a very disturbing way. What made this cult especially interesting was both the online aspect, it was basically a whole cult operating online, and that I could almost see how this seemed almost not so crazy at first. At first it sounds like a silly but harmless new age dating website, but if you get even a second further into it you start to see the crazy and it went off the rails really quick. I hope that the move to the trailer never happens, it will only get a million times worse.

It was almost funny when just as I was thinking "this all sounds familiar" we found out that Jeff was watching the NXIVM documentary and other cult documentaries and making his followers write essays about how he's TOTALLY not the cult leader like those guys. I believe the psychopath doth protest too much? Jeff and Shaelia are so creepy, Shaelia seems like she's reading off a teleprompter and Jeff's constant sarcastic "whawhwha" bits made me want to smack him. So much of what he does seems like its just to fuck with people and see how far he can push them. 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who found the whole "I just happened to be hanging out with his roommate, I just happened to be at the same club" story. The club I could maybe buy, but who hangs out at the apartment of someone who has a restraining order on them unless its for stalking purposes? Ellie could have just owned up to what she did, I really respect how much responsibility Keeley took for her role in everything. She was a victim too but she also victimized a lot of people and she was really honest and remorseful about it. At least she helped that poor nineteen year old get away from her "twin flame" boyfriend, she looked so miserable and afraid she was anywhere near her "boyfriend" and even when she was talking about him, thank god she got away and seems to be doing well. 

I felt really bad for Stephanie's family. If the alliance of moms and former members want to take Twin Flames down, what they really need to do is put together Jeff and Shaelia's finances, they have to follow the money. 

[zenithwit]

Just watched the Amazon doc and this one is definitely better.  While the Amazon doc had more interviews with family/friend connections to Jeff and Shaleia, this one did a better job showing the build from a new-agey group to a coercive cult.  Also, the Amazon one was way too focused on the journalist.   While journalists can provide a nice narrative backbone (which was done in this Netflix one), I thought the Amazon one spent too much on the journalist's reporting methods.

On 11/15/2023 at 10:41 AM, cmfran said:

As bad as it all is, they don't seem to be breaking any laws, so they'll just get to keep doing what they're doing.

I feel like coercing someone to change genders can't be legal - especially if it involves surgeries and other physical body modifications.  Maybe this type of case hasn't really been seen in the US Courts yet.  But if they had solid evidence to prove this type of claim, I can't imagine any jury would be like 'nah, this is totally okay' .

Edited November 17, 2023 by zenithwit

[luckyroll3]

14 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Jeff and Shaelia are so creepy, Shaelia seems like she's reading off a teleprompter

 

3 hours ago, zenithwit said:

While the Amazon doc had more interviews with family/friends connections to Jeff and Shaleia

I thought it was interesting that in the Amazon one, Shaleia's family basically believe she's the mastermind behind most of it. 

[tennisgurl]

5 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I thought it was interesting that in the Amazon one, Shaleia's family basically believe she's the mastermind behind most of it. 

I can buy that. Jeff might love manipulating people but it seems like he would be really easy to manipulate himself, he's nowhere near as smart or as crafty as he thinks he is. 

[Avaleigh]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:56 AM, EdnasEdibles said:

I honestly think he's just a sadist and enjoys knowing he can fuck with people. I don't think he likes women at all - or men. I think he just wants to see what he can make people do. 

Agreed. Jeff comes across as a misanthrope. I don't know that he likes or respects any living person. He seems to think that most people are stupid and weak and in constant need of aggressive guidance. He also seems to be under the delusion that wherever he goes he's the smartest person in the room. Just an all around disgusting, slimebag of a person. 

I don't think I've seen a cult leader quite like these two. When I think of all the cult leaders I've seen in other documentaries, I feel like their motivations were pretty straightforward. Money, power, sex, faith, etc. All of this applies to these two as well but with Jeff and Shaleia there's any extra layer of weirdness that I can't quite put my finger on. It's not just Jeff's sadistic tendencies that are alarming. There's almost a vibe of this being an OTT prank that they've fully committed to playing on whichever humans are unfortunate enough to get involved with them. 

I am not convinced that they believe what they're selling. With some cult leaders I feel like they believe a lot of the garbage they spew. Even some people in MLM schemes I think they've more or less talked themselves into believing it's something else. With Jeff and Shaleia I feel like they're both conscious of the fact that their thing doesn't make any sense. They're making this shit up as they go along and are having their cult members do stuff that doesn't even serve the interests of the cult which, at the end of the day, disrupts their bottom line. To me, they're more interested in the outrageousness of what they can con people into doing as opposed to getting people to make choices that will support the growth of the cult. 

If you're working a con where you're having people aggressively pursue people who emphatically aren't interested in them it doesn't make any sense. To me it would have been more practical to have people continue the search for their "real" twin flame. From the MLM perspective it should have been like, 'Oh, you haven't found your match yet because you didn't buy this class. You need to buy these classes and tools in order to find a match. Keep paying and it'll happen.' They should always look outside of the group for matches 99% of the time because that's the best chance of building their numbers. 

To me there's much more mileage out of having a member search for the right person for them as opposed to forcing the issue with a person who clearly isn't interested in them. Sure, it can help the cult leaders reach some short term goals (like damaging a follower's self esteem) but it's definitely not a good long-term strategy. I think they were getting a kick out of having people be so aggressive in their searches that they were turning them into creepy stalkers.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Avaleigh

[Avaleigh]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:57 AM, zenithwit said:

Another interesting aspect of this is that since they haven't taken the step of physical proximity yet, we are seeing a bit more of the initial foundation of the cult.  Once they all move in together, that's when the really scary stuff begins.  Hoping that they don't reach that point. It seems that they recorded most of their "classes".  So hopefully this will provide the authorities with enough evidence for an investigation and criminal charges.   And maybe we'll get a follow up in a couple years?

Yes, this is another area where this cult is different than others I've seen. A lot of the power for the cult leaders develops in situations where there is close proximity and regular physical contact. Competitiveness can develop among followers regarding who gets the cult leader's attention.

How will Shaleia feel if/when she has to share Jeff's attention? It's one thing for him to give people attention online. But once they're all living on the compound? That's definitely going to change the group dynamic. 

Also, don't most of his followers have regular jobs because they don't make much money from the MLM stuff? How does the money keep rolling in if they quit their regular jobs to move on this compound?? Or is the idea that the followers who aren't on the compound would be funding the lifestyle of the ones who are?

On 11/15/2023 at 10:41 AM, cmfran said:

If their "compound" ever gets built, I'm sure Jeff's goal is to have sex with/impregnate as many of the members as possible. That seems to be the goal of almost every cult leader.

I'm on the fence about this. In a way I can see this happening but in another way I sort of feel like if multiple girlfriends/wives/partners is the end goal he could have done that a long time ago. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of his followers are willing. 

I could be way off base, but I feel like he's more interested in manipulating the relationships of others rather than wanting more physical relationships for himself.

Also, if I heard about any other couple using IVF to have a baby it wouldn't seem unusual in any way. With Jeff though, I get such a misogynistic and misanthropic vibe from him that it made me wonder if he and Shaleia aren't very physical with each other. 

[MaggieG]

To me at almost seemed like he was trolling people to see how far he could take it and if they actually would do what he said. And sadly, most of them did.

[libgirl2]

I had never heard of this group before but we binged the whole thing Friday night. Wowsa. I wouldn't call them LGBTQ+ friendly. If you are, you don't force a gender on someone. 

On 11/20/2023 at 4:07 PM, Avaleigh said:

Also, if I heard about any other couple using IVF to have a baby it wouldn't seem unusual in any way. With Jeff though, I get such a misogynistic and misanthropic vibe from him that it made me wonder if he and Shaleia aren't very physical with each other. 

I got the same vibe from them. 

[Gigi G3]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:35 AM, libgirl2 said:

I had never heard of this group before but we binged the whole thing Friday night. Wowsa. I wouldn't call them LGBTQ+ friendly. If you are, you don't force a gender on someone. 

I got the same vibe from them. 

Definitely. I did not see a connection between them. Maybe at first but not as time went on. Ironic, as they were supposed to be twin flames themselves. After watching for a while, I thought he was gay or closeted. Closeted was my guess. She gave off an asexual vibe to me. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Gigi G3

[DrSparkles]

Jesus. Watching Marlee sit there & cry in front of people. Are you f’ing kidding me???

[Madding crowd]

This is one of the craziest ones. They are literally the laziest matchmakers I can imagine. Who’s the last male you spoke to? Uh, my Door Dash delivery driver? Boom, he’s your twin flame. When they couldn’t come up with men who wanted to match with a cult member they decided half of them were secretly transgender. I just don’t see what the followers get out of this. I’m not paying people money to yell at me over a Zoom call.

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

This is one of the craziest ones. They are literally the laziest matchmakers I can imagine. Who’s the last male you spoke to? Uh, my Door Dash delivery driver? Boom, he’s your twin flame. When they couldn’t come up with men who wanted to match with a cult member they decided half of them were secretly transgender. I just don’t see what the followers get out of this. I’m not paying people money to yell at me over a Zoom call.

Yea, that was the part that really pushed it over the edge. It was bad enough to begin with but this???