S02.E03: Civil War

[AntFTW]

Quote

The challengers compete in a difficult swimming challenge; a vet turns on one of their own in an act of self-preservation.

Air date: August 17, 2023

[AntFTW]

The Johnny monologues... and the music 🤣😂🤣

[jsm1125]

Surprise surprise, when Bananas doesn’t have his suck-ups like Paula, Dunbar, and Leroy, or someone like Nany to be his social buffer, he’s on the outs. Good for the others for wanting his entitled, tiresome ass out. Cory doesn’t owe him a fucking thing, and they’ve never had any allegiance towards each other. 
 

I find it interesting that Paulie hasn’t mentioned Cara Maria once this season. And I can’t tell if he was trying to come out as bi or pan, or if he just wanted the same level of attention that Freddie Mercury had. 

Desi, I love you, but you’re trying to tell me that JOSH of all people could be the one to take out Bananas? I thought her onion-like alliance structure is interesting, and wonder how long it will take for Michelle and both Alyssas to realize they’re in the outs of it.

I loved Alyssa L calling Tori out during the blue team’s voting. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by jsm1125

[mojoween]

The Godfather music slayed me.

Faysal is annoying, but he owes fuckall to John.  Same for Cory.  When has John EVER EVER had Cory’s back?

No offense to Chanelle, but I was so rooting for her one lonely ball to come out of the hopper.

I resent you for making me root for Paul, show.

Edited August 18, 2023 by mojoween

[Lantern7]

Lesson learned: Never send a Big Brother schmuck to do a man’s job. Paulie could’ve gotten up on Johnny, and he blew it. Yeah, he seems to have grown, but who cares?

Good episode, disappointing ending, and I’m still ticked CBS isn’t running any promos for The Amazing Race like their other reality shows.

Johnny is Dusty’s hero. I am so disappointed in him.

6 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

I find it interesting that Paulie hasn’t mentioned Cara Maria once this season.

Probably edited out for the sake of the story. 🤷‍♂️

[Lamima]

Yeah, like the show a lot (and all the ideations) but if Banana and Tori make it to finals YET again....I won't be watching anymore for a while. 

[AntFTW]

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

The Godfather music slayed me.

Me too! It gave me a good laugh!

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

No offense to Chanelle, but I was so rooting for her one lonely ball to come out of the hopper.

So did I! 👀

I just wanted Amanda to go in.

3 hours ago, mojoween said:

Faysal is annoying, but he owes fuckall to John.  Same for Cory.  When has John EVER EVER had Cory’s back?

I agree BUT! Hear me out...

Johnny's and Cory's interests have never been aligned on any previous season for any amount of time. This season, they are both in the same boat. This season, and I believe for the first time, their immediate interests seem to align. Even though much attention hasn't been on Fessy, I think that anyone that has played on the MTV show is at the bottom... at least for now, and most of all Johnny. That's part of the reason why I think Paulie and Josh were considered for votes into the hopper.

Cory said he's on a sinking ship with the vets, which is true. He is. He says that he's on the bottom of the vets so therefore he decides to play with the CBS players. However, I'm pretty sure he's on the bottom with them too. Cory knows they want to get out the vets, and that doesn't suddenly exclude him.

Now that the blue team couldn't throw Tori in, the only other alternative is Amanda. If Johnny had lost the elimination, I think the target could have easily turned back to Cory. I get that he has to choose a side and he doesn't want to be the target every time... but I kinda feel like that's gonna happen regardless of how he votes because all of the vets, including Cory, are on an island of their own.

In a nutshell, Cory had no good options but it seems like he chose people that won't have his back at all over people who will have his back for now because they desperately need the numbers.

Because the whole house wanted Johnny gone, I wanted Johnny to win. I want to see the disappointment in their faces. I want to see plans fail.

3 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

Desi, I love you, but you’re trying to tell me that JOSH of all people could be the one to take out Bananas?

She says she watches the show but I can't tell if she thinks Josh could have been the one to take on Johnny 🤣😂

3 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

Surprise surprise, when Bananas doesn’t have his suck-ups like Paula, Dunbar, and Leroy, or someone like Nany to be his social buffer, he’s on the outs.

Frankly, all of the vets are on the outs.

Edited August 18, 2023 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

1) This was a really good episode. It kept me on my toes. I'm really liking this season.

I said in a comment on one of these threads some time ago that this game would get interesting when they add more rookies. People that come back season after season tend to play it more safe with each season that they do. They tend to play the same boring game over and over. They get tired of taking risks and losing, so they take less risks.

The new players really came to play and they're willing to take shots. I love it!

2) Yes, shame on you Tori!... for ever thinking that Amanda would put aside her differences to work with you. You know Amanda is petty!!!! She will never put aside any differences even if it means survival in the game.

3) Desi named all of the people in their alliance. You know who she did not name? Not a single guy from the CBS side. Is anyone going to challenge that? Apparently not. As long as the target stays on the vets and not of them, they don't care.

Cory says that he would like to work with the vets but they're outnumbered. They don't have to be outnumbered but everyone else is so disorganized. There are plenty of people there to gain numbers... but no one seems to be trying to organize.

Cory is trying to get in with Alyssa. Where does he sit? At the bottom.

4) Who is Dusty and why is he so in love with Johnny?

5) Amanda gets nominated for elimination and she gives zero fucks. She's not working with the rookies. She's not working with the vets. I'm curious at her strategy to get to the end if she's not working with anyone.

6) One thing I thought about is that Cory could have made the winners' vote a little more interesting if he voted for Tiffany. Then it would have been tied, and someone would have had to change their vote. If no one was willing to change, that could have been the big move he told Alyssa that he needed to make.

Chris and Sebastian voted for Tiffany. If Cory and Tori wanted to make things fun, they could have voted for Tiffany and she would have been nominated into elimination. Then, all 5 of those votes that they organized to put on Monty could have went to a woman to increase chances of another women's elimination and increase the chances of it being a rookie or CBS woman.

But then. I'm thinking of this from the comfort of my own home rather than under a high pressure Challenge environment.

7) The elimination was quite... creative. 🤔

Edited August 18, 2023 by AntFTW

[mojoween]

That elimination was totally from one of the Survivor comp designers with a fiery, fishy twist.

I would have been out after about two minutes, I have tendinitis in my shoulder and have a hard time washing my hair.

[AntFTW]

Johnny wins the elimination. If I’m Johnny and knew what I know as a viewer, I’d choose to go to the blue team and send Chris to red because the numbers are more favorable.

Joining blue only works out if they win. If they win, they have the numbers to dictate the vote. Tori, Cory, Johnny, Fessy and Sebastian would make the majority on the blue team. Sebastian has a thing for Tori so he’s willing vote with her. He demonstrated that in this episode by not voting for Johnny like the other CBS players. I’m also assuming that Cory and Fessy would be more willing to work Johnny if they were on the same team.

Edited August 18, 2023 by AntFTW

[bunnyface]

I do tend to believe the conspiracy theories that production/producers protect and favor Bananas.  I don't know one way or the other, but I tend to believe it.  I don't especially like Paulie either, although he did seem a bit better this season, not so unhinged.  But it was still early days.  So either one of those guys could have gone and I wouldn't have cared.  I don't know if or how they could rig this elimination.  But it didn't look like Paulie's hand moved when it suddenly dumped on him.  It looked weird to me.

It was hysterical watching Bananas come unglued though, just because he's seeing an elimination.  Man do those scare him.  Another difference between Wes and Bananas.  Wes just says, hey we're outnumbered, they are determined to do to us what we've done to them all along.  Bananas pitches a hissy fit.  How dare they try to make him play the game!!

[Lamima]

47 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

I do tend to believe the conspiracy theories that production/producers protect and favor Bananas.  I don't know one way or the other, but I tend to believe it.  I don't especially like Paulie either, although he did seem a bit better this season, not so unhinged.  But it was still early days.  So either one of those guys could have gone and I wouldn't have cared.  I don't know if or how they could rig this elimination.  But it didn't look like Paulie's hand moved when it suddenly dumped on him.  It looked weird to me.

It was hysterical watching Bananas come unglued though, just because he's seeing an elimination.  Man do those scare him.  Another difference between Wes and Bananas.  Wes just says, hey we're outnumbered, they are determined to do to us what we've done to them all along.  Bananas pitches a hissy fit.  How dare they try to make him play the game!!

My thoughts too. And that last throw that Paulie made and missed...looked acted to me. Fake. I am beginning to think the whole show is scripted and they all know the order they go out. And the parts they have to play...like Amanda being the 'don't give any Fs and not playing with anyone' person. Tori is always safe. Somehow. And maybe Banana can split...ha ha...after this season. He is 40. C'mon dude. Move on from the kiddie games and go make a family. 

[aghst]

55 minutes ago, bunnyface said:

I do tend to believe the conspiracy theories that production/producers protect and favor Bananas.  I don't know one way or the other, but I tend to believe it.  I don't especially like Paulie either, although he did seem a bit better this season, not so unhinged.  But it was still early days.  So either one of those guys could have gone and I wouldn't have cared.  I don't know if or how they could rig this elimination.  But it didn't look like Paulie's hand moved when it suddenly dumped on him.  It looked weird to me.

It was hysterical watching Bananas come unglued though, just because he's seeing an elimination.  Man do those scare him.  Another difference between Wes and Bananas.  Wes just says, hey we're outnumbered, they are determined to do to us what we've done to them all along.  Bananas pitches a hissy fit.  How dare they try to make him play the game!!

 

3 minutes ago, Lamima said:

My thoughts too. And that last throw that Paulie made and missed...looked acted to me. Fake. I am beginning to think the whole show is scripted and they all know the order they go out. And the parts they have to play...like Amanda being the 'don't give any Fs and not playing with anyone' person. Tori is always safe. Somehow. And maybe Banana can split...ha ha...after this season. He is 40. C'mon dude. Move on from the kiddie games and go make a family. 

 

Is Paulie left handed?  Because he threw them with his left hand?

The vets were probably told what the cast breakdown would be, since they made a late arrival and there were only 6 or 8 of them and they were not allies in the past.

So they knew it was going to be an uphill battle, easily outvoted unless they could gaslight enough of the newbies.  I think over time the producers want to feature the younger, newbies, who tend to be more photogenic, to see if a couple of them would break out and become regulars.

I liked both games, though who knows who really won, the producers could make the outcome of that Daily whatever they want.

 

[choclatechip45]

Why is Dusty obsessed with Bananas? 

[mojoween]

I thought Paul’s last throw looked way fake too.  He hit the target confidently with every one, and then throws that weak ass shit?

[Lamb18]

I think Johnny will switch with Cory. Then he would be with Tori. 

What gets a little confusing to me is that there are other vets playing, too, so I think they're one of the six vets. Then I remember if they were on a CBS show, they are a "rookie."

[mertensia]

Why on earth did Tiffany go on this show if she can't swim?

[AntFTW]

I listened to Johnny's podcast. Paulie says when he threw his last bean bag and missed, Johnny still had a couple bean bags left... so there may have been some editing magic there because the narrative they presented in the episode was that Johnny threw his last bag and hit his target (leaving Johnny with zero bags), and then Paulie threw his last bag and missed.

On 8/18/2023 at 12:35 AM, AntFTW said:

4) Who is Dusty and why is he so in love with Johnny?

12 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Why is Dusty obsessed with Bananas? 

I wish I had an answer...

It's weird.

Edited August 19, 2023 by AntFTW

[AntFTW]

14 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I think Johnny will switch with Cory. Then he would be with Tori. 

Then he'd be outnumbered, at least within the team. Johnny becomes useful to Cory if they're on the same team, and could make Cory more willing to work with Johnny. At least the numbers are on their side if they win and have a winners' vote. It's unclear to me whether Johnny knows that or not. I guess we'll see next week.

Separately, Johnny says on his podcast that he and the vets group had talked beforehand and agreed they were all gonna stick together because they knew they would be outnumbered and they were sitting ducks if they split. Based on that conversation, he thinks Cory has his back and is disappointed to discover otherwise. That clearly didn't last long when Amanda votes for Tori. Then, Cory votes for Johnny.

Edited August 19, 2023 by AntFTW

[mojoween]

So is Josh with BB or not?  Because he was all het up about John getting nominated (…shut up, Josh).  And I have no idea who Faysal is with, because all those BB folks are from after his season.

I feel like John is going to switch with Faysal even if John is mad at Cory.  Just to put Faysal on the sucky team.

[bunnyface]

Any team with Fessy on it is, by definition, a sucky team.  Because he sucks.

 

[ImpinAintEasy]

18 hours ago, mojoween said:

I thought Paul’s last throw looked way fake too.  He hit the target confidently with every one, and then throws that weak ass shit?

It should be pointed out that eliminations and challenges are highly edited. Case in point, supposedly Bananas had 5 mores bags when Paulie threw his final one, but the show made it seem like Bananas had thrown all of his already. 
 

Edit: I should’ve read all of the posts, as I’ve seen this was already stated. 

Edited August 19, 2023 by ImpinAintEasy

[Jobiska]

Tori, right after beating Jonna and returning to the house:  Everyone is gunning for me.

Bananas, making it all about himself, because of course:  Welcome to my world.

Bananas, after people dare to actually gun for him:  Bloviates about it for apparently hours on end.  

I never thought I'd be rooting for Paulie, but....

Also, like with Tori a couple of seasons ago, I do appreciate (no matter how noxious a person is/has been) someone admitting they were messed up in whatever way and that they sought help.  More power to you, Paulie.  Keep it up.  Preferably off my screen.  But I'd take you over Bananas any day.

[aghst]

If Paulie and Cara Maria are still together, I'd have rather see CM back than some of the vet women.

Though she and Paulie were insufferable when they were last on The Challenge.

But it's been a long time so ...

[AntFTW]

45 minutes ago, aghst said:

If Paulie and Cara Maria are still together, I'd have rather see CM back than some of the vet women.

Listening to Johnny's podcast, it seems they still are together. Cara chimed in from the background while Paulie was on the podcast. It seems she's cheering for Amanda's drama because "everyone else sucks." Lol

[bunnyface]

I don't actually know anything about their relationship, but I feel like Cara Maria and Paulie bring out the worst in each other.  They both seem relatively likeable on their own, but together they are a shit show of some kind.  

[luckyroll3]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:00 PM, jsm1125 said:

Desi, I love you, but you’re trying to tell me that JOSH of all people could be the one to take out Bananas?

Exactly! They way I howled when she said that and literally did one of these:

Also, who was the chick who said she was in love with Josh. So gross. Let's see how long that lasts after she sees him blubbering like a baby. 

On 8/18/2023 at 12:35 AM, AntFTW said:

One thing I thought about is that Cory could have made the winners' vote a little more interesting if he voted for Tiffany. Then it would have been tied, and someone would have had to change their vote. If no one was willing to change, that could have been the big move he told Alyssa that he needed to make.

Agreed. He also didn't need to make it so obvious that he was gonna work against the vets. Both Amanda and Johnny were already ahead on the vote. He certainly could have tied Amanda's vote, forcing a revote like mentioned, and voted for any other guy and Johnny, who was the main target, would have still gone in anyway. Cory continues to show that he doesn't know how to play the game, and not because of any of the reasons Johnny said, as he's just mad he's getting out maneuvered by "rookies", but because Cory is and has always been not that bright. 

Love to see the folks who always throw out, "It's not personal," when they vote in everyone else taking their elimination votes personally. 

[AntFTW]

2 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Agreed. He also didn't need to make it so obvious that he was gonna work against the vets. Both Amanda and Johnny were already ahead on the vote. He certainly could have tied Amanda's vote, forcing a revote like mentioned, and voted for any other guy and Johnny, who was the main target, would have still gone in anyway. Cory continues to show that he doesn't know how to play the game, and not because of any of the reasons Johnny said, as he's just mad he's getting out maneuvered by "rookies", but because Cory is and has always been not that bright. 

Exactly! ...and the way I howled when Cory said the challenge is memory, and he was good at memory. I said:

[AntFTW]

8 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Both Amanda and Johnny were already ahead on the vote. He certainly could have tied Amanda's vote, forcing a revote like mentioned, and voted for any other guy and Johnny, who was the main target, would have still gone in anyway.

I think someone would have budged to break the tie, but that's how he could have asserted some amount of power in the game. No one seems to really care about the vote for a woman as much as they cared about Johnny going in. Tori voted for Desi. Maybe she would have changed from Desi to Tiffany. Fessy was seemingly not willing to vote for Amanda. Maybe he would budged and switched from Michele to Tiffany. I feel like Fessy's vote for Michele was a burn vote anyway.

As much as the vets whined about being outnumbered all throughout this episode, I don't care that the vets are outnumbered. I don't care that they've been on the show a million times and have won the game a million times. So far, it's been a great season having them there. If they're going to be there, play the game. They should play as hard as they can. Take big risks. Make bold moves. Play to win! ...and Cory seemingly did not do that.

I don't want to watch vets complain that they're outnumbered, I want to watch them try to do something about it.

It reminds of me Veronica on Dirty 30, when she purposefully tied the vote because no one was willing to compromise with her or listen to her. She tied the vote and was about to give up her own safety in the game to make a move when no one was willing to work with her.

Edited August 20, 2023 by AntFTW

[millennium]

On 8/17/2023 at 11:42 PM, AntFTW said:

Me too! It gave me a good laugh!

I'm sure Bananas laughed too when he saw it.   Classic Challenge editing.   These episodes are a huge improvement on Season 1.   Changing it up from a barracks to a full-fledged Challenge house makes a huge psychological difference.

Of course, bringing in vets is the secret sauce.   None of the new players seem to have a personality big enough for this show.   They're not class clowns or showboats or mean girls.  They're mostly reserved.  Even when they have a disagreement with other players they either quash it or just complain to one or two friends and it never seems to come to a head.   No in-your-face confrontations, no enemies pitted against one another in the Elimination, no rookies calling out vets to their faces.   They're boring. 

On 8/20/2023 at 11:35 AM, luckyroll3 said:

Cory continues to show that he doesn't know how to play the game, and not because of any of the reasons Johnny said, as he's just mad he's getting out maneuvered by "rookies", but because Cory is and has always been not that bright. 

But it was pasta!