S07.E01: Tower of London

[CheshireCat]

Quote

Prince's political ambitions come with a surprising twist, and his intentions are met with skepticism. Wendy, Wags and Taylor turn to an old friend for guidance. Chuck aligns with an unlikely ally in hopes of leveraging his freedom.

Air date: Aug 13, 2023

[catherinejane]

Weirdly we got it early this morning in the uk (11th)

It was good. Don’t want to say too much more in case it’s a spoiler as before us airdate. 

[dwmarch]

This isn't supposed to have aired as of August 11th? (Spoiler tag edited out after air date)

Wow, I was 100% correct about Dollar Bill's firm, High Plains Capital. Mafee is high and Dollar Bill is plain! I made that joke back in the day based on Dan Soder (the actor who plays Mafee) appearing on a comedian's Youtube channel where he let us know in no uncertain terms that cannabis is not a performance enhancer in the competitive sport of table soccer. You can see it here, it is hilarious watching him get absolutely destroyed by an opponent who is wearing oven mitts.

I'm not familiar with that "I'm so awesome" song that was playing when Wendy was coming in to MPC at the beginning. I can only assume they were using this music ironically.

The reporter was a little over the top. I mean, even for this show. And I don't really buy the whole thing where he can just barge in because he's going to write some story that is going to talk some shit. I guess the production team on this show doesn't read a lot of papers lately.

I know alliances are always shifting on this show but I don't specifically remember Taylor rejoining Team Axe and if the reason for this was supposed to be the office shenanigans in this episode, I'm not sold.

Also not yet sold on Prince as Hitler. Wishing to stop the United States from turning into Idiocracy does not necessarily call for Nazi tactics.

I guess Hollywood ankle monitors let you just wander as you please? I was under the impression that real ones keep you confined to a single location which should be an area somewhat smaller than "lower Manhattan".

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by dwmarch
Removed spoiler tag after airdate

[CheshireCat]

According to my information, it streamed on August 11 and airs on August 13 🤷‍♀️

[Ottis]

Literally only 3 minutes in, and can I just say how much I hate, hate the “5 months earlier” crap.

[aghst]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:34 AM, Ottis said:

Literally only 3 minutes in, and can I just say how much I hate, hate the “5 months earlier” crap.

Yeah they do that all the time it seems.

Removing spoiler.

So Wendy thinks Prince is dangerous if he became president, an out of control despot who could launch a preemptive attack on China and Russia and gas Des Moines, because he thinks he's right and knows better than anyone else.

Let's see, Wendy was married to Chuck Rhoads and worked for Axe all those years.  So maybe she at least has experience detecting megalomaniacs.  

But now she chooses to draw the line?  Remember that Chuck also had some roadmap to run for the WH too.  And it's not like Axe didn't have delusions of grandeur nor went through life as if no domaine was too big for him.

She's going around in clothes which probably cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, with a big SUV and driver but now she wants to save the nation or get Axe to come to the rescue?

Wendy isn't the only one who wants to stop plutocrats or fight the power.  Chuck is using a reporter to cast himself as some modern day Robin Hood, the only one who's going to make billionaires accountable to the Greater Good.

😆

Or it's the narrative he wants to spin, to extricate himself from his legal troubles.

So of the 3 male leads, two of them are lawbreakers and they're the ones being cast as heroes, to stop the third one, who's potentially the worst despot in history.

Taylor isn't down with Prince's program either.  They are upset because their boutique investment firm is being absorbed into Michael Prince Capital and they won't get to do ESG investing any more.

IIRC, last season, they decided that they need to become a billionaire and they rejected people who called her out for giving up their idealism, in pursuit of wealth.

So Taylor still wants to make money but they want to make money the "right" way.  Since Prince isn't letting them do what they want, they join Wendy to bring back Axe, even though last seen, they didn't particularly love Axe either.

Mafee is now a stoner and Dolla Bill is still a creepy asshole, but he loyal to Axe.

Then there's Axe.  He sent them a secret message through some trades and Wendy goes to the Tower of London to meet him.  Taylor also shows up.  I forget who else.

You know Axe isn't the guy running away from the law that we last saw from him.  He's been doing good, like getting weapons to the Ukrainians -- yeah like he was the only one who was going to be able to do that, never mind the US and NATO, the richest countries in the planet.

No it took a fugitive to make things happen.  Axe is the reason why Ukraine hasn't been conquered already!

But now he's going to be the one to stop a megalomaniac from becoming the most powerful man on earth.  

Maybe that's what it takes, one megalomaniac to stop another megalomaniac.

This episode actually featured the Rhoads kids on screen for a couple of scenes.  So in 6-plus seasons, they've been on screen for what, 4 minutes?

That's why it's hard to take these Billions characters seriously.  Not only are Chuck and Wendy accomplished, they're great parents, no resentment from the kids for not giving them enough attention, no complaints that Wendy sees them maybe a couple of times a month.

Bobby was also all about his kids in the first couple of seasons.  Then he would not let his ex-wife leave the state and take away the kids.  But he just decided to let them go and not a peep from them since.

That's fine, I don't need to see any kids.  But don't pretend that these aren't horrible parents, too self-absorbed in their own BS to really care about their children.

You look at Succession and the parent-child relationships are the crux of the series, not because parenting is some great thing they wanted to feature.  No it's about these horrible people and a domineering father who manipulates and raises unhappy, damaged children.

Yet when he dies abruptly, the children have real emotions, even though they had been at war against him for control of the family wealth and power.

That's what makes for interesting characters, even if they're horrible.

Billions characters are horrible people but the show doesn't want to own that.  They're cool because they're smart and they like to drop all these cultural reference, of which they laid on plenty in this episode.

You know, it's quaint if one or two character drops some references like a rock critic.  Shows that they're hip, have deep knowledge of music, don't just know the big hits and they make these references in a witty way.

But when EVERY character does it, it's absurd, it's just the writers wanting to show off, not writing believable dialogue.

In this episode, even a red shirt, the reporter guy, drops a bon mot about BB King was it?

Are they only hiring writers from Rolling Stone or something?

Edited August 14, 2023 by aghst

[l star]

I loved the opening with Prince and Wendy. I want to know what happened so much. I don’t think I’ve ever cared about Prince until now. 

They seemed to push the idea that Wendy still has feelings for Axe. I admit to shipping them, but this doesn’t feel positive. More like she’s being set up for a fall. 

I continue to like Dave. Chuck is an idiot to make an enemy of her. He was never going to be able to hack it in her plan, and that’s not a positive. I hope she makes him regret it. “You can save the dime store critiquing of my case building dude” to Prince was great. 

Taylor and partner (I don’t remember his name) are annoying. I love that they brought back Dollar Bill though, in my mind just to fuck with Prince. 

I love that when push comes to shove, Wags and Wendy stick together. That was missing last season. Taylor I can take or leave, but I love those two together. I smiled just like she did when he called her one of his favorite people.

Mafee is an idiot. I love her, but once again he’s doing favors for Wendy. How many times does she have to screw him over?

Chuck can fuck right off with his guilt tripping about how much time Wendy spends with the kids. 

Was Bobby pissed that Wendy stayed with Prince? Your guy, there everyday must be doing something right- he sounded a little bit jealous even. I do want to know why he thought she came. He obviously didn’t foresee the truth. 

[The Solution]

I know I said I was done with Billions, but I really enjoyed this episode. So sue me.

I gotta say, I loved the shoutout to Uncle Junior's doctor's office.

[txhorns79]

On 8/12/2023 at 12:16 PM, aghst said:

 

Spoiler

But when EVERY character does it, it's absurd, it's just the writers wanting to show off, not writing believable dialogue.

 

It reminds me of that old Star Trek: TNG episode where Picard is kidnapped by a species that can only speak in allegories.  I don't mind pop culture references, but I roll my eyes at characters who inject it into multiple conversations as if to try to show how cool they are.

I liked the episode.  It showed how much Bobby is missed.  I was a little confused about the comments about his being in hiding.  I had thought in his last episode he got Swiss citizenship and was just living beyond the reach of any extradition agreement, not that he literally had fallen off the grid.   

I had forgotten that Charlotte's gender fluid child on And Just Like That is also Chuck's daughter.   

 

[Starchild]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

It reminds me of that old Star Trek: TNG episode where Picard is kidnapped by a species that can only speak in allegories.  I don't mind pop culture references, but I roll my eyes at characters who inject it into multiple conversations as if to try to show how cool they are.

Yeah these writers are one step away from writing in Tamarian. The only saving grace is that they still use complete sentences.

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Starchild said:

Yeah these writers are one step away from writing in Tamarian. 

Whedonish

[Starchild]

In an earlier post I mentioned there was no decent (read: "good guy") characters left, but I stand corrected. So far, Chuck's lawyer friend (Eli? don't recall his name) still seems like an honourable guy.

[paigow]

Axe is now this guy...

 AND THIS GUY...

I got really confused because Axe seemed to be labelling Wags as Luke... making Wendy Chewie..????

Edited August 14, 2023 by paigow

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Starchild said:

So far, Chuck's lawyer friend (Eli? don't recall his name) still seems like an honourable guy.

I can only see a douchebag from Burn Notice ... but he is mostly honest...

[l star]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Axe is now this guy...

 AND THIS GUY...

I got really confused because Axe seemed to be labelling Wags as Luke... making Wendy Chewie..????

Wendy is Leia. I think Taylor is Luke and Wags is Chewie, but those could be switched. 

[katenm]

Chuck's lawyer friend is Ira. I keep waiting for Chuck to betray him, as is Chuck's way.

[aghst]

Chuck betrayed him, denied him generational wealth by screwing over his IPO to trap Axe.

I don't recall, Ira was going to marry this tall gorgeous blond but after his IPO deal blew up, he couldn't afford the giant engagement ring any more so did she leave him?

Maybe not, and that's why Ira ultimately forgave Chuck?

[dwmarch]

Wasn't Ira also due to become a judge but Chuck sabotaged him to keep him where he was? I was waiting for that plot to blow up when it happened but it didn't come up again in that season.

[katenm]

Clearly, I forgot about Chuck betraying Ira. Perhaps Ira will remember the betrayal this season or since Ira's life is going well, he will let it go.  Of course, letting things go is not the way things happen on Billions. LOL.

[hacman00]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:31 PM, Starchild said:

Yeah these writers are one step away from writing in Tamarian. The only saving grace is that they still use complete sentences.

Using an obscure reference to complain about obscure references...

[Starchild]

So meta, I know..

[Taget]

I'm glad the show is ending because I've invested too much to quite but it feels like the show rather than telling a story with organic characters is just dragging the characters along where it wants to go regardless of what makes sense or feels organic (like say the last half of the last season of Game of Thrones).

The show always had it's flaws. It's overuse of meta and cultural references rather than adding to the show just became stilted dialogue.  And everything meant to show New York CIty culture or extravagance felt like paid product placement (because it probably was).  But in the end it really was a biting satire about flawed human beings making moral compromises to achieve their ambitions while wistfully trying to moralize their choices to justify themselves.

You had at its center a Brahmin old money Ivy League educated man born with a silver spoon in his mouth worth tens and most probably hundreds of millions of dollars on a populist crusades against new money billionaires he considers vulgarians and intruders.  The type of fight New York City has had for hundreds of years.  It also is a biting satire on the excesses of capitalist excess and governmental and societal corruption.  But in the end it was fun.  Over the top people butting heads and getting a little come uppance for their evils and living life up the way as mere plebeians wished we could.

What I had against this last episode is trying to frame Axe as a hero.  Axe is great.  Axe is fun.  I missed Axe (and understood why the actor who played him had to attend to family).   But he is not the "answer" for bettering the common good or to be admired for much besides showing panache.  We may want him to get away with it.  But Wendy trying to build him in moral terms made me scratch my head.

Then there is Wendy who is the "pied piper" of the show.  Never the moral center.  She is actually the moral blackhole.  She is where the Taylors of the world go to help them lose their moral inhibitions against doing the worst possible things to help make the firm and themselves money. Her "counseling" is about helping people understand their most wanton desires actually are perfectly reasonable if they think about it differently.  Whether it is seeing the "good" your fortune can bring at future times or realizing you don't really need to fear the scorn society shows you for doing wrong.   Our Jeff Bezos wannabe is probably a megalomaniac.  And let's be honest anyone who does become a contender for president probably does have more than a touch of megalomania and self-belief.   But being a moral barometer has never been Wendy's strong point.  It has been helping folks remove their.

That said I think it can be fun watching Axe destroy Prince.  Just don't sell me on Wendy being Christopher Walken from the Dead Zone.  That's just too much for me.

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Taget said:

 

You had at its center a Brahmin old money Ivy League educated man born with a silver spoon in his mouth worth tens and most probably hundreds of millions of dollars on a populist crusades against new money billionaires he considers vulgarians and intruders.  The type of fight New York City has had for hundreds of years.  It also is a biting satire on the excesses of capitalist excess and governmental and societal corruption.  But in the end it was fun.  Over the top people butting heads and getting a little come uppance for their evils and living life up the way as mere plebeians wished we could.

The show was better in the first couple of seasons partly because the Axe and Chuck characters were based on real-life figures, Steve Cohen and Preet Bharara, who actually served as US Attorney for the Southern District of NY.

Bharara did really prosecute Cohen, who couldn't trade for clients for a few years.  He's still very rich and bought the New York Mets.

Chuck was modeled on Elliot Spitzer, the New York state Attorney General who prosecuted some Wall Street bankers and was said to have political ambitions going all the way to the WH.

The first few seasons, they were trying to outwit each other, Chuck's office going after Axe, while Axe's lawyers were smirking at all the money they made keeping Axe out of jail.

Then they turned both characters into cartoons and made the rivalry into a personal feud, rather than questions about equality or whether laws applied to the rich and powerful -- a question we're seeing played out right now.

So even if they turned it into some vendetta tale/soap opera, which it always was to an extent, it would be fine if the characters were interesting and entertaining, like the loathsome characters in Succession.

Alas, the Billions writers don't have the chops to pull something like that off.  Instead they seem to pour their energy into pop music references.

[Lone Wolf]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:16 AM, aghst said:

 

This episode actually featured the Rhoads kids on screen for a couple of scenes.  So in 6-plus seasons, they've been on screen for what, 4 minutes?

 

If I may be indulged an off-topic rant about that scene - when did it become embarrassed "of" someone?  I don't want to sound like Grandpa Simpson shaking his fist and yelling at a cloud, but back in my day we were embarrassed "by" people, not "of" them.

I get that language changes over time, but a lot of what I hear these days makes no sense. Words matter, godammit...

That is all; carry on. Thank you.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Adrenaline is a hellova drug. Flinging an office chair through a window? Prince is such a freaking drama queen.

"Coney Island Crunk-o-Meter." Nobody actually says that, do they? At least not in the way Chuck was using the expression.

Mark Cuban couldn't even learn all his lines. It was clear he was reading from something off-camera as he was speaking. But that might've been because he and Corey Stoll weren't in the same place at the same time when their dialogue was filmed.

Dollar Bill, the Lex Luther wannabe.

Hey, the gang's back together! Autobots assemble! 🙄

Quote

when did it become embarrassed "of" someone? 

Likely around the same time it became "bored of" instead of bored with or bored by. Prepositions are becoming fluid too, it seems.

I'm curious to see how they end this series though I was less than impressed with the season opener.

[Anela]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:10 PM, aghst said:

Chuck betrayed him, denied him generational wealth by screwing over his IPO to trap Axe.

I don't recall, Ira was going to marry this tall gorgeous blond but after his IPO deal blew up, he couldn't afford the giant engagement ring any more so did she leave him?

Maybe not, and that's why Ira ultimately forgave Chuck?

I thought Axe made a deal with him, and gave him the money for the ring. They got married at some point, and she was cheating on him. They were going to take his money, and run off, and chuck stepped in and threatened her with a lawsuit. I think his friend knew that he would do that. That’s when they became friends again.  
I’ve binged this show over the last few months.

I didn’t like prince throwing that chair through her glass wall.