Speculation Without Spoilers

[Trini]

Bringing back David from the dead?? Worst idea from the past 2 seasons of bad ideas. I've been here before, it was called Prison Break Season 4. Spoiler alert: it sucked.

[Cranberry]

I changed this to a speculation thread, as each season four episode will have its own discussion thread.

[alias1]

I was hoping Conrad was having a nightmare.  Bringing back David is a really stupid idea.  Would he be a bad guy now?  Lurking in the background while his daughter is seeking revenge?  Stupid, stupid stupid!!  The show just seemed like it was getting back on track.   

[grandemocha]

Seriously considering taking the Season 3 finale as the end for myself. Victoria is not the "wronged party" never was, and its ridiculous if we are supposed to root for her now. No. Just no. 

[scarletregina]

Based on the trailer, I'm not sure that we're supposed to root for Victoria. Just because we may see the story from her side does not mean that we are supposed to be on her side.

[RedheadZombie]

I've always thought that there's no happy ending for Emily, regardless of her revenge, because her father is still dead.  I love the actor (Men in Trees) who plays David so I was excited to see him.  I took off most of season two, so I had more tolerance for season three.  There had better be a good story as to why Emily was allowed to languish in a pediatric psychiatric hospital, and then juvie, if her father was alive. Perhaps he was unable to help her until she was released, and met by Nolan.  I don't know if I want Nolan to have known all along.  I don't want him to be evil.  I don't want him to be crazy - Emily already has one crazy parent.  If there's not going to be a loving relationship between adult Emily and David, I don't want him alive.  Even worse - if he is close to Charlotte but not Emily.  Also, please don't let him be lured in by Victoria. 

 

Regarding the changed POV.  I don't know what I think.  For better or worse, I think when the show originated we were supposed to be rooting for Emily to get her revenge.  Suddenly Victoria is the narrator talking about vengeance.  I like her being deliciously evil and manipulative, but I don't really root for her.  I think MS is a great actress who can evoke empathy - which she did with the rape story line - but she's a viper who always comes out ahead.  I want to see her go down.  Out of all the things done, I think arranging for Emily to be locked up as a child psycho is the most heinous, and that's all on Victoria.

[DollEyes]

 Re my unspoiled spec, I think that Emanda is going to end up either caught or dead while Nolan ends up back in prison. I felt bad for Emanda at first and rooted for her until innocent people started becoming collateral damage. Daniel's no saint by a long shot and neither are his parents (to put it mildly), but not only was David Clarke's "death" not Daniel's fault, he was a child himself at the time, just like Emanda. Then there's Charlotte, Emanda's sister, who still doesn't know her true identity and if she had, she might be a better person than the self-destructive mess she's become. Conrad, Victoria and Charlotte's own choices had something to do with it, but Emanda's lies didn't help.

 

  And all because of a man who not only abandoned Emanda and let her believe he was dead since childhood, he left her to rot in the system. David may have thought he was helping Emanda, but if he really wanted to protect her, he wouldn't have let her fend for herself for most of her life. I've never believed that David Clarke was a good guy nor that he was dead and his being alive after all proves my point. Knowing her nature and her track record, chances are Emanda won't just let bygones be bygones when it comes to Dear Old Dad any more than she has with the Graysons, which will and IMO should be her downfall.

[RachelKM]

I've always thought that there's no happy ending for Emily, regardless of her revenge, because her father is still dead.  I love the actor (Men in Trees) who plays David so I was excited to see him.  I took off most of season two, so I had more tolerance for season three.  There had better be a good story as to why Emily was allowed to languish in a pediatric psychiatric hospital, and then juvie, if her father was alive. Perhaps he was unable to help her until she was released, and met by Nolan.  I don't know if I want Nolan to have known all along.  I don't want him to be evil.  I don't want him to be crazy - Emily already has one crazy parent.  If there's not going to be a loving relationship between adult Emily and David, I don't want him alive.  Even worse - if he is close to Charlotte but not Emily.  Also, please don't let him be lured in by Victoria. 

 

Regarding the changed POV.  I don't know what I think.  For better or worse, I think when the show originated we were supposed to be rooting for Emily to get her revenge.  Suddenly Victoria is the narrator talking about vengeance.  I like her being deliciously evil and manipulative, but I don't really root for her.  I think MS is a great actress who can evoke empathy - which she did with the rape story line - but she's a viper who always comes out ahead.  I want to see her go down.  Out of all the things done, I think arranging for Emily to be locked up as a child psycho is the most heinous, and that's all on Victoria.

I haven't felt Daniel was truly innocent since the latter part of season one when he found out everything and decided to protect his father.  And I felt like that was the turning point for Emanda too.  Up until then, I think she had some compassion for Daniel.  He was a drunken douchebag who injured his girlfriend, but when she started pressing him about it, it was clear that he was not heartless and was trying to improve.  Emanda used him to get close to his family, but once Daniel's ex-girlfriend's brother trashed hi car, she didn't seem to have any interest in harming him or including him unnecessarily in her revenge.  And then Daniel went on air and protected his father and, in her mind and within the narrative, became complicit.

 

Charlotte is another story.  I think she would have been a little messed up from her upbringing, but i think losing Declan and her baby and then the kidnapping and losing faith in Jack and all good thoughts of Conrad just did her in.  At least part of that is on Emanda.

 

As for the POV change, I agree.  Madeline Stowe is great and Victoria is fun as a villain, but I cannot feel bad for her.  She destroyed the man she claimed to love, destroyed a child and had her held captive in a mental institution and brainwashed, was complicit in a terrorist cover-up, and was generally heartless and cruel to countless people.  So yeah, rooting for her to do anything other than get taken down is causes cognitive dissonance I cannot overcome. 

[Dirtybubble]

Before the first episode aired I had hope that maybe Emanda's dad was actually dead and this guy was an imposter but alas it doesn't look that way.  Well if he is still alive I hope he's here to slap the snot out of Emily and give a good ass chewin' to Nolan for going along with this plan. 

 

And since Mason Treadwell has been in every season so far is it too much of me to hope he comes back again for this season?!  Please, just to see his slimy self one more time?

[Trini]

 

And all because of a man who not only abandoned Emanda and let her believe he was dead since childhood, he left her to rot in the system. David may have thought he was helping Emanda, but if he really wanted to protect her, he wouldn't have let her fend for herself for most of her life. I've never believed that David Clarke was a good guy nor that he was dead and his being alive after all proves my point. Knowing her nature and her track record, chances are Emanda won't just let bygones be bygones when it comes to Dear Old Dad any more than she has with the Graysons, which will and IMO should be her downfall.

 

This is always the problem with bringing parents back from the dead. ALWAYS. Undead Parent looks like (or is) a complete uncaring jerk who abandoned his/her family; usually with the excuse that it was for the child's protection -- even though the abandonment messes the child up.

[TobinAlbers]

I hope that the writers won't be this predictable, but I think David was brought back so that he can die for real but in a way that allows him to take the rap for all of Emily's schemes and she can walk bitterly into the sunset.

 

In a bitter ironic twist Emily will have done to her father what Victoria and Conrad did to him only David will willingly be the fall guy for Emily. David will have a short lived exoneration as a terrorist as he dies (or goes to prison) with the stigma of being a ruthless vengeful mastermind who destroyed the lives of those who destroyed him. The show will have come full infinity loop.

 

And actually it coincides with the show's source material in that at the end of the book, the Count sails away avenged against those that did him wrong but still estranged from his wife and child in that too much time has passed and they've all changed too much. Emily will have completed her mission but it will have cost her Amanda, Aidan, and ultimately her father.

Edited October 6, 2014 by TobinAlbers

[alias1]

I hope that the writers won't be this predictable, but I think David was brought back so that he can die for real but in a way that allows him to take the rap for all of Emily's schemes and she can walk bitterly into the sunset.

 

In a bitter ironic twist Emily will have done to her father what Victoria and Conrad did to him only David will willingly be the fall guy for Emily. David will have a short lived exoneration as a terrorist as he dies (or goes to prison) with the stigma of being a ruthless vengeful mastermind who destroyed the lives of those who destroyed him. The show will have come full infinity loop.

 

And actually it coincides with the show's source material in that at the end of the book, the Count sails away avenged against those that did him wrong but still estranged from his wife and child in that too much time has passed and they've all changed too much. Emily will have completed her mission but it will have cost her Amanda, Aidan, and ultimately her father.

I hope the writers are reading your post because this would be a very satisfactory conclusion. You should be writing for the show!

[kikaha]

I hope that the writers won't be this predictable, but I think David was brought back so that he can die for real but in a way that allows him to take the rap for all of Emily's schemes and she can walk bitterly into the sunset.

 

In a bitter ironic twist Emily will have done to her father what Victoria and Conrad did to him only David will willingly be the fall guy for Emily. David will have a short lived exoneration as a terrorist as he dies (or goes to prison) with the stigma of being a ruthless vengeful mastermind who destroyed the lives of those who destroyed him. The show will have come full infinity loop.

 

And actually it coincides with the show's source material in that at the end of the book, the Count sails away avenged against those that did him wrong but still estranged from his wife and child in that too much time has passed and they've all changed too much. Emily will have completed her mission but it will have cost her Amanda, Aidan, and ultimately her father.

 

Cool ideas.  One big unanswered question is what do you think happens to Jack?  This season, it seems to me, has been hinting that Emily and he reunite and fulfill their childhood love. 

 

btw, in the Count of Monte Cristo, I'm pretty sure the hero never married his fiancee, Mercedes: he was arrested on the eve of their wedding.  He never had a child with her: one of his betrayors married her and fathered a son.  And while the Count ultimately sailed off in the sunset, he did so with a new love on his arm.  i.e. not everyone was destroyed or unhappy. 

[TobinAlbers]

Ah, that's right. The Count relented on ruining the son of his betrayer because it was Mercedes' son as well. Charlotte is the version of that in the show.

I always read the end as yeah, he had a girlfriend and she was happy, but emotionally the Count was still kinda ruined since his revenge ultimately gave him no true satisfaction and he could never get back what he lost with Mercedes. So a win but also still a loss.

No clue what they do with Jack. My money is that after David dies/is incarcerated , Jack tells her she has him but Emily ends up leaving in the middle of the night because she feels she doesn't deserve a happily ever after and that Jack and baby Carl deserve better. She may even sail off into the sunset to bring in the title card imagery, LOL.

[CleoCaesar]

I hope that the writers won't be this predictable, but I think David was brought back so that he can die for real but in a way that allows him to take the rap for all of Emily's schemes and she can walk bitterly into the sunset.

 

In a bitter ironic twist Emily will have done to her father what Victoria and Conrad did to him only David will willingly be the fall guy for Emily. David will have a short lived exoneration as a terrorist as he dies (or goes to prison) with the stigma of being a ruthless vengeful mastermind who destroyed the lives of those who destroyed him. The show will have come full infinity loop.

 

And actually it coincides with the show's source material in that at the end of the book, the Count sails away avenged against those that did him wrong but still estranged from his wife and child in that too much time has passed and they've all changed too much. Emily will have completed her mission but it will have cost her Amanda, Aidan, and ultimately her father.

 

I love this idea because it is complex, gray, and so not a happy Hollywood ending that always ends up feeling fake.

 

On the other hand, I've been watching this show for 4 seasons and dammit I want a happy ending (inasmuch as there can be one without Aiden + Emily). I want Emily to destroy Victoria and the Graysons and still find happiness for herself, her dad, Nolan, and Jack. The show started really suffering once it became Victoria/Graysons getting away with everything and Emily accomplishing nothing. (Victoria poisons and strangles Aiden, Charlotte sets a fire that almost kills Emily, Daniel shoots and almost kills Emily...I mean c'mon.) I wouldn't want the series finale to be more of Emily suffering or achieving a Pyrrhic victory. I want Emily to have an unequivocal victory.

[GaT]

I think at the very end of the show, Emily will have turned into the new Victoria.

[kikaha]

I think at the very end of the show, Emily will have turned into the new Victoria.

 

It was starting to look that way, but I think she will not go down that path.  The return of her father is the reason. 

[phoenics]

It was starting to look that way, but I think she will not go down that path.  The return of her father is the reason.

Agreed. I've always thought that Emily was on a hero's journey - but first she would teeter on the edge of becoming just like Victoria - but pull herself back and eventually find her redemption.

I guess the show is going to use David for that - whatever... this show has become so unsatisfying and a terrible, terrible tease. Conrad getting his isn't enough.

I loved Emily's revenge stories though - one thing I think the CoM movie got right was how it ended and the Count walked off into the sunset with everyone who was important to him. But the book was a classic and probably more like how it should be - even if I still think everyone who Emily went after deserved it.

[TarHeelTeacher]

David is running a con. When it started I don't know, but I thought he clearly knew the woman in the picture Jack showed him when Charlotte took him to meet Carl was NOT his daughter. He did not act like a man meeting his only grandchild, the only child of his only, now dead, child.

 

He is going to know Emily is Amanda as soon as he lays eyes on her. I can remember on TWOP during season 1 when people were so up in arms about Jack not recognizing the grown Amanda when she first showed up in town. He may not let on that he recognizes her, but I am going to hold on to that hope until they don't let me.

 

He could be trying to figure out who all was involved in Amanda's destruction and how, especially if he really thinks she is dead.

[Bort]

So according to the promo for next week, someone's gonna die. I'm thinking Margaux. Can't have Daniel with any sort of prospective hope and happiness, he's a lot more interesting when he's bitter and snarky.

[RachelKM]

So according to the promo for next week, someone's gonna die. I'm thinking Margaux. Can't have Daniel with any sort of prospective hope and happiness, he's a lot more interesting when he's bitter and snarky.

I had the exact same thought. Also, baby on board leads to maximum emotional damage.

[alias1]

So according to the promo for next week, someone's gonna die. I'm thinking Margaux. Can't have Daniel with any sort of prospective hope and happiness, he's a lot more interesting when he's bitter and snarky.

The only problem with that theory is that no one will care.  Of all the character we have come to know and love (snark) Margaux is going to cause the least upset.  I would have said that about Charlotte, but she is apparently gone anyway.  They have been rehabilitating Daniel somewhat so maybe it's him, and while I would have been fine with that in season one, now I don't want it to be him.  I'll have to think about who would be good (or not good) dead.

[Lebanna]

I'm thinking Louise kills Daniel and then her plan will be to kidnap Margaux so that she can keep her locked up until Marg has finished gestating Daniel's spawn - which Louise then intends to pass off as her own, making her and 'her' child the most important people in Victoria's life.

Yes, this is utterly ridiculous and highly unlikely, but, you know... this show.

More wild guesses, anyone?

[GaT]

There was an Instagram video posted with the actors portraying Nolan, Louise, Victoria, David, and Margaux taking a break together during what was obviously a funeral. Unless it was done deliberately to throw people off, whose funeral other than Daniel's could it have been where all those characters, especially Louise, would be present?

Charlotte

[GaT]

I'm watching tonight's episode & they just had the scene at the party where Nolan & Louise are dancing & talking about her brother & how she wishes she could get away from him. Louise's brother is going to turn out to be Malcolm, isn't he?

[RachelKM]

^^^ Wasn't the Fed Malcom's daughter?  I guess that doesn't prevent him from being Louise's brother, but he had a kid as old as she is and is apparently Canadian while Louise (and the hallucination of her mother) seem to be American and southern. Either way, I think the brother's appearance is inevitable considering his mentions.

[CofCinci]

^^^ Wasn't the Fed Malcom's daughter? I guess that doesn't prevent him from being Louise's brother, but he had a kid as old as she is and is apparently Canadian while Louise (and the hallucination of her mother) seem to be American and southern. Either way, I think the brother's appearance is inevitable considering his mentions.

He could be a brother from another mother?

[GaT]

^^^ Wasn't the Fed Malcom's daughter?  I guess that doesn't prevent him from being Louise's brother, but he had a kid as old as she is and is apparently Canadian while Louise (and the hallucination of her mother) seem to be American and southern. Either way, I think the brother's appearance is inevitable considering his mentions.

My sisters are 17 & 15 years older than me, so it's possible to have a sister & a kid about the same age.

[Bort]

^^^ Wasn't the Fed Malcom's daughter? I guess that doesn't prevent him from being Louise's brother, but he had a kid as old as she is and is apparently Canadian while Louise (and the hallucination of her mother) seem to be American and southern. Either way, I think the brother's appearance is inevitable considering his mentions.

I would also like to point out that I'm pretty sure they just said Malcolm Black was IN Canada, not that he's Canadian.

[RachelKM]

My sisters are 17 & 15 years older than me, so it's possible to have a sister & a kid about the same age.

As I said, it doesn't prevent him from being Louise's brother, it just seems unlikely.

 

I would also like to point out that I'm pretty sure they just said Malcolm Black was IN Canada, not that he's Canadian.

True. However, it amuses me to think that he's a super evil Canadian.  I'm not even sure how American writers would depict that. 

 

But agian, I didn't say it was impossible.  It just seems unlikely.

[Jiggle Billy]

Louise's brother, Lyman Ellis (played by Sebastian Pigott), is a politician.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Jiggle Billy

[Dirtybubble]

I would also like to point out that I'm pretty sure they just said Malcolm Black was IN Canada, not that he's Canadian.

 

 

True. However, it amuses me to think that he's a super evil Canadian.  I'm not even sure how American writers would depict that.

I always held out hope that Malcolm was actually Conrad.  But the FBI agent kinda blew that out of the water for me.  Dang.  Now I don't care who he is because in my eyes there is no greater Eeeeevillllllll than Conrad Grayson. 

 

[ParadoxLost]

It feels to me like Daniel's redemption path and baby is a convenient way for Emily to ultimately "win"  in her revenge game.  I suspect the end of this show is Emily somehow convolutedly ending up raising Daniel's baby as repayment for the Grayson's sterilizing her.

[Melvinvdriet]

Since it's pretty safe to assume this is the last season and there has been stated that if Revenge is getting a season 5 it has to be a whole new show, I think there will be a couple of deaths in the coming episodes.

Who do you think will die?

I saw a picture of Nolan, Jack and Emily from the last episode with the text 'together for the last shot', so they will be safe.

But what about Victoria, Margaux, Louise & David?

[nobody30]

I have seen that picture too, but I don't think it means anything, any of them could still die too (last shot does not necessarily mean last scene). I think it's safe to assume that Victoria will die if it ends this season, and I'm pretty sure David is a goner too. As for the others I have to say that I have no clue, but if you'd ask me there is no need for Ben, Margaux or Louise in any case, so I don't mind if any of them dies.

[TobinAlbers]

So yeah with David diagnosed with lymphoma and Emily set up for Victoria's murder I can totally see where this is going.

David works it so he can take the rap and go die in prison 'like he was supposed to' and Emily is free. He has the perfect motive and it is easily believable that he would do it. That is the purpose of his 'resurrection' he was wondering to Stevie about- to save and protect his daughter.

[GaT]

I'm thinking that this whole Emily goes to jail thing is to make things go full circle. She gets convicted, goes to jail, & gets "murdered" just like David. Then she changes her identity & lives happily ever after under a different name. 

 

I still think that Victoria is alive, so is it possible that Emily & Victoria came up with this plan together so that they could both "die" & move on as different people? Victoria was never going to have a normal life after everything came out & lots of people hated her & Emily knew that she would never be safe from all the people after her. This would be a way for them to get new lives.

[alias1]

I'm thinking that this whole Emily goes to jail thing is to make things go full circle. She gets convicted, goes to jail, & gets "murdered" just like David. Then she changes her identity & lives happily ever after under a different name. 

 

I still think that Victoria is alive, so is it possible that Emily & Victoria came up with this plan together so that they could both "die" & move on as different people? Victoria was never going to have a normal life after everything came out & lots of people hated her & Emily knew that she would never be safe from all the people after her. This would be a way for them to get new lives.

I like your theory, even though I don't think Victoria deserves to have a normal life.  But it would be a very interesting twist and I would be ok with it.

[CleoCaesar]

David works it so he can take the rap and go die in prison 'like he was supposed to' and Emily is free. He has the perfect motive and it is easily believable that he would do it. That is the purpose of his 'resurrection' he was wondering to Stevie about- to save and protect his daughter.

 

Ugh this makes a lot of sense and I would hate it. Can't Emily just SUCCEED FOR ONCE and be happy?

 

Other speculation: I think Victoria is still alive. #1 rule of TV deaths: No body, not dead. By that logic I think Conrad is alive too but with the show ending (hallelujiah!!!) I doubt they will show him again. If the show got another season, I'd fully expect this one to end on a shot of Conrad smiling evilly.

[Melvinvdriet]

Other speculation: I think Victoria is still alive. #1 rule of TV deaths: No body, not dead. By that logic I think Conrad is alive too but with the show ending (hallelujiah!!!) I doubt they will show him again. If the show got another season, I'd fully expect this one to end on a shot of Conrad smiling evilly.

Even if there IS a body, it's still not sure (see: Mona vander Waal).

But I personally think Victoria is dead and gone.

[alias1]

But I personally think Victoria is dead and gone.

I tend to agree with you, but the two graves thing, with both of them being fake, is so appealing to me.  

[Melvinvdriet]

Well,

I don't think we need to take the 'Two Graves' thing to literally. I saw a lot responses of people guessing for who the two graves are, but I personally think 'Two Graves' doesn't mean TWO graves for TWO characters. It means that every character on this show with Revenge needs to dig two graves, one for their enemy, and one for themselves. That would be: Emily, Margaux, Ben, Louise & Mason for sure. I think they all will pay some price for their path of Revenge, thus 'digging two graves'.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Melvinvdriet

[CleoCaesar]

I think Emily is definitely going to lose someone major. Most likely her father to cancer and/or jail. But what if it's Nolan? I'm totally unspoiled, so this is just me thinking out loud. Nolan is the one surviving person who's known Emily throughout the series and is whom she trusts completely. (Jack thought she was Amanda for years, Aiden is dead, and her father was gone for most of it.) If he dies, that would be worse than any death for Emily. A second grave indeed.

[alias1]

Well,

I don't think we need to take the 'Two Graves' thing to literally. I saw a lot responses of people guessing for who the two graves are, but I personally think 'Two Graves' doesn't mean TWO graves for TWO characters. It means that every character on this show with Revenge needs to dig two graves, one for their enemy, and one for themselves. That would be: Emily, Margaux, Ben, Louise & Mason for sure. I think they all will pay some price for their path of Revenge, thus 'digging two graves'.

Melvin, you're being so logical (and philosophical)!  I get what you're saying but I don't think the show will be that profound.  I hope there's some sort of twist at the end, like they've done on the show so often.  I'd like it to go out that way 

[Melvinvdriet]

Melvin, you're being so logical (and philosophical)! I get what you're saying but I don't think the show will be that profound. I hope there's some sort of twist at the end, like they've done on the show so often. I'd like it to go out that way

I hope I'm right though. They are doing a good job to keep everything a secret for the last two episodes. No sneek peaks, no promotional photo's.. It's annoying and fun at the same time. I'm the kind of fan that cannot wait for the episode to air to know everything about it but when it's monday (I live in Holland so have to wait a day extra to watch it) I can enjoy it much more because I can be surprised.

[ketose]

Emily is incapable of happiness. Even in the salad days with Dad, Emily had already been almost drowned by her mother. Amanda Clarke spent most of her life struggling, fighting and hiding her real self. I'm pretty sure there's nothing left. Happy for Emily would be seeing Victoria dead even if she had to die to make it happen.

[DayPlayerAtKellys]

I wouldn't put it past this show to kill off every one - Amanda, Victoria, David, Nolan, Jack, Louise, Magaux... and the last shot of the series to be Mason on the talk show circuit promoting his book about all the events of the series.

 

Also: I missed chunks of season 3 and 4 so I don't know who White Gold is but I'm pretty sure she won't survive the finale either. :)

 

Charlotte should be OK but that's only because she (rightly) distnced herself from that group.

[alias1]

I don't see Amanda dying because what would be the point?  Diehard fans (me) don't want to see that.  I'm prepared for some casualties (David, probably, Jack, maybe) but not the main character.  If it follows The Count of Monte Cristo, the main character will have all kinds of trials and tribulations (which Amanda has had) but will still be alive at the end.  I've stuck with the show through thick and thin.  The only season I absolutely hated was season two. I would call myself a very loyal fan.  Why would they write an ending that I would hate?

[GaT]

I think Margaux sent White Gold (what a stupid name) to kill Victoria & Ben was just a bonus. I fully expect her to kill her in the last episode & Victoria will be dead for readl.

[alias1]

I think Margaux sent White Gold (what a stupid name) to kill Victoria & Ben was just a bonus. I fully expect her to kill her in the last episode & Victoria will be dead for readl.

Not sure why you would think that.  Margaux and Victoria were working together to fake Victoria's assault in the parking garage and then her death in the fire and blame it all on Emily.  As soon as Louise admitted she gave the black hoodie oufit to Ben, Margaux put out the hit on Ben.

 

White Gold is a stupid name.