S20.E10: Thali Time

[sharifa70]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:55 PM, marybennet said:

Sometimes Top Chef makes me hungry; this would be one of those times.

Because of this episode I ended up going to my favorite Indian restaurant in Portland, OR, where the chef is at least one server’s mom (dad was cooking last night, though). They do have a delicious thali plate but it was a hot day and I just didn’t want that much food. 

I really loved Amar having such a good time in the kitchen. I like him anyway but this time he just seemed to cook with so much joy. He and Ali are my favorites.

[dleighg]

I had never heard of Thali, and hadn't seen it at the Indian restaurant we always go to. It turns out that another restaurant nearby does have both a vegetable and a mixed meat thali. I'll have to try it sometime!

[Ms.Lulu]

1 hour ago, sharifa70 said:

Because of this episode I ended up going to my favorite Indian restaurant in Portland, OR, where the chef is at least one server’s mom (dad was cooking last night, though). They do have a delicious thali plate but it was a hot day and I just didn’t want that much food. 

I am in Portland too, what is your favorite Indian restaurant?

[carrps]

20 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

I lived in Hull for a year but never had Indian food. Please tell me, was that a huge mistake?

I don't know about the Indian food there, but we recently saw a show on PBS called Hullraisers. About working class sisters and their friend. Very funny. One of the sister is married to the brother of the friend, and the siblings are south Asian. I got the impression there was a decent number of south Asians in Hull, so maybe the food is good there?

[catrice2]

We have no way of knowing what is going on behind the scenes with these people when they film.  Someone lost a relative while filming. I am sure there are days when people may feel ill, received bad news, or are just over being away from home from regardless of what they signed up for. 

To me , it appeared that Dawn had something going on, Nicole was not herself in her elimination episode and who knows what was going on with Victorie?  These shows are so heavily edited it is hard to even know when people's facial expressions are even in response to something that was just said or something that happened hours before.   Apparently she and Gabri had a dust up that was not aired, even though they made up, just as Gabri and Nicole had one that was not aired and quickly resolved.  I am sure it is hard to be in that environment and under stress with strangers and sometimes they just crack. There are a lot of different cultures, ideas, language, beliefs, etc.and you are in close proximity to people you don't know well. 

I LOVE spicy food, but I can no longer eat it, or when I do I have to be prepared.  I have noted in several "down" times, she is also the one that does not have an alcoholic beverage.    It is odd to me how we are so quick to judge someone as "rude" or problematic just because they are different and don't do what everyone else does, or what they expect.  My impression of her is that she is very guarded, whether that is strategy, cultural, or a consequence of not understanding much English....she has always been somewhat apart from the group,  not necessarily there to "make friends," but not not trying to be an issue.  

Victoire was always "middle of the pack" and probably would have been gone long ago if others had not made more glaring mistakes.  Somebody's got to win, and none of them were staying forever. Most of them go into it for exposure and opportunities with no expectation of winning anyway, and it is always true that chefs that are "better" leave before others.  I enjoy Gabri, if he skates to the final I won't be upset, the game is the game, and if he happens to cook better on a given day than someone else who has been more consistent, then oh well. 

There are at least 3 to 4 people getting a winner's edit, so it is going to be interesting to see what happens.  I was hoping this week would be the double elimination and I am hoping Charbel comes back. 

I am so in and out with this show, do they still do an favorite or a reunion show?  If not, this would be a good year to bring it back.   I think it would be Sylvia, Victoire,  Ali, or Gabri. 

[sharifa70]

7 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

I am in Portland too, what is your favorite Indian restaurant?

Dwaraka! It’s on SE Hawthorne between 39th & 40th (about half a block west of New Seasons). The food reminds me of my one visit to India, where I stayed with friends and ate home-cooking for two weeks. The first time I went to Dwaraka it tasted like I was back with my friend’s family, having dal and pakoras for breakfast. When the server came by to check on us I told him everything was delicious and tasted like someone’s mom was in the kitchen, and that’s when he gave the sweetest smile and replied “My mom is in the kitchen.” I’m absolutely thrilled that they seem to have made it through the pandemic.

I’ll miss Victoire’s dry sense of humor. I didn’t think she was rude at all when she mentioned that she didn’t particularly care for spicy food, and I agreed with her when she commented about the effect on her sense of taste. I feel the same way: though I appreciate some kick, I don’t like food that is so spicy my lips start to burn. At that point I can’t actually taste anything and it’s pretty disappointing.

Gabri is just…exhausting. I like him and he’s clearly talented or he wouldn’t have been his season’s winner, but I would not enjoy working with him. 

[Ms.Lulu]

42 minutes ago, sharifa70 said:

Dwaraka! It’s on SE Hawthorne between 39th & 40th (about half a block west of New Seasons). The food reminds me of my one visit to India, where I stayed with friends and ate home-cooking for two weeks. The first time I went to Dwaraka it tasted like I was back with my friend’s family, having dal and pakoras for breakfast. When the server came by to check on us I told him everything was delicious and tasted like someone’s mom was in the kitchen, and that’s when he gave the sweetest smile and replied “My mom is in the kitchen.” I’m absolutely thrilled that they seem to have made it through the pandemic.

Thank you! I will check it out.

[Rammchick]

The first place I ever had a thali was in London, as a matter of fact, in the 90s.  It was back when I was vegetarian, and the restaurant made an amazing array of meatless dishes for me.  Pre-pandemic, there was a Thali House in Seattle, but I think it closed. I never did get there, sadly.

I'm a lover of all things spicy but I'll never understand the competitive nature of it.  

[carrps]

53 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

I'm a lover of all things spicy but I'll never understand the competitive nature of it.  

I think it's more a "guy thing." And it's exhausting.

 

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

I think it's more a "guy thing." And it's exhausting.

 

Nah,I was pretty much the same with it.  I was all about doing the "one chip challenge." 

[carrps]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

Nah,I was pretty much the same with it.  I was all about doing the "one chip challenge." 

What was that? Too many "challenges" for me to keep up with or care about.

 

[Rammchick]

3 hours ago, carrps said:

I think it's more a "guy thing." And it's exhausting.

 

I used to have a female friend who did this, so I'm not certain it's purely a guy thing.  We used to frequent a sandwich shop in Wilmington, Delaware, that had a wall of hot sauces, and she would report to me whenever she transcended a spice level.

[carrps]

Just now, Rammchick said:

I used to have a female friend who did this, so I'm not certain it's purely a guy thing.  We used to frequent a sandwich shop in Wilmington, Delaware, that had a wall of hot sauces, and she would report to me whenever she transcended a spice level.

Such a weird thing to be proud of to me.

[Fukui San]

5 minutes ago, carrps said:

What was that? Too many "challenges" for me to keep up with or care about.

 

Eat a single potato chip dusted with ghost pepper powder or some other incredibly spicy flavoring. 

[carrps]

Thanks. That was my guess. Not my thang!

[catrice2]

Well, if I ate chicken I would be on Hot ones, although since I am not a celebrity they would have nothing to interview me about!  I wondered about the vegetarian people and I finally saw one where they made "wings" out of cauliflower for the celebrity to eat. 

I don't really compete with others, I just like spicy things and discovering new spicy things. 

[BlackberryJam]

Of course some people don't like spicy food, but Victoire is a professional chef in a cooking competition. Every chef there is going to have to try things out of their comfort zone and out of their "likes" box. In addition, nothing about the thali they were served indicated the spice level was palate destroying. 

To me it felt like Victoire was exhausted by the competition and emotionally spent, more than she was unhappy eating spicy food. It had to be so much harder for her having just learned English. I was amazed by her grasp of the language. But listening to British accents, American accents, German accents, Mexican accents, and having to translate all of that in her head, while competing, would have overwhelmed me. Truly, I watch this show with closed captioning because I can't always keep up. 

I believe if the show was filmed in Italy, Italian being the "base" language of everyone involved, she would have done much better. I wish her well.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by BlackberryJam

[blixie]

Quote

Of course some people don't like spicy food, but Victoire is a professional chef in a cooking competition. Every chef there is going to have to try things out of their comfort zone and out of their "likes" box. In addition, nothing about the thali they were served indicated the spice level was palate destroying. 

I don't think it was rude only that it put her at a massive disadvantage it was profoundly weird to not only ignore Padma's specific advice to cook for the judges palate and not her own, but to not even SALT AND PEPPER her kachumber. We have seen people cook things they are allergic to multiple times and they have other people taste it. I just think she was being stubborn and inflexible and you can't be that on a competition show.

The thing that bugs about contestants like Gabri is that the judges IMO whether they admit it or not DO factor in how well a chef has cooked over the season. For example the week Gabri/Luciana/Begona were in the bottom their actual dishes were all pretty good with only a single weakness, but it was clear the Luciana hadn't impressed over time the way Gabri/Begona did. Yet the next week they kicked out Begona over others were worse over time. It has annoyed me for over 20 seasons and it will continue to annoy me. I just wish they'd admit that's the case, like it's fine to occasionally be arbitrary on a competition cooking show.

[Rammchick]

13 hours ago, blixie said:

I don't think it was rude only that it put her at a massive disadvantage it was profoundly weird to not only ignore Padma's specific advice to cook for the judges palate and not her own, but to not even SALT AND PEPPER her kachumber. We have seen people cook things they are allergic to multiple times and they have other people taste it. I just think she was being stubborn and inflexible and you can't be that on a competition show.

She did have a rationale for not seasoning the kachumber -- she said she did it that way so it wouldn't compete -- or it would act as a relief -- from the spices in the rest of the thali.

[dleighg]

40 minutes ago, Rammchick said:

she said she did it that way so it wouldn't compete -- or it would act as a relief -- from the spices in the rest of the thali.

Yeah, but salt, is not "spices" in the same sense. Salt mainly highlights inherent flavor.

[marybennet]

7 hours ago, Rammchick said:

She did have a rationale for not seasoning the kachumber -- she said she did it that way so it wouldn't compete -- or it would act as a relief -- from the spices in the rest of the thali.

This made me think about suya (can’t remember—did somebody make it this season?), which is Nigerian and I think there’s a Congolese version, too. Beef suya is very spicy and often served with tomatoes, cucumber, and red onion, clearly acting as relief.  I’ve had it several times, and every time the vegetables (some of them the things that make up kachumber) have been absolutely raw and undressed, not even salted. I wonder if that’s what’s behind Victoire’s choice. 

[susannot]

That may be. Kachumber sounds similar to raita, a cooling cucumber dish with yogurt and mint.  IIRC it is always salted.  Cooling is one thing, but totally bland is another.

[Daisychain]

Yes, after last week's episode we got my usual butter chicken from our favorite Indian restaurant here in the suburbs - and in addition to chutney I got the kachumber and raita, and some papadum.   Both the kachumber and raita had a lot of parsley which added a lot of herbiness, but the kachumber had at least some spice or pickle - I couldn't quite figure it out.  There were a lot of delicious ways to combine the bites, especially because the papadum and rice were not bland at all.

[Leeds]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:13 AM, meep.meep said:

Victoire was trying to eat, but like those of us who can't take spicy heat, she wasn't able to eat a lot.  She, out of all the chefs, has trouble expressing herself in English so had trouble explaining herself to Padma and Asma.  I don't fault her for what she said - she didn't complain about any dish, just the level of spice.  And she was the only chef who recognized Asma and thanked her for being such an inspiration.

Man, some of those judges were really tucking in!

I thought it was lovely when Asma hugged Victoire.

That was a huge amount of food they were served.

On 5/13/2023 at 10:54 AM, seacliffsal said:

 

Not all of us can tolerate the same levels (and, yes, when younger I had Indian food while in India and I don't recall it being uber spicy/hot).

I spent a few months in Southern India - the food was incredibly hot.

On 5/16/2023 at 8:00 AM, dleighg said:

Yeah, but salt, is not "spices" in the same sense. Salt mainly highlights inherent flavor.

I'm glad Sara was dinged in the smoked fish round for the salt level - I couldn't believe how much she tipped into an already naturally salty dish.

[Rahul]

It only took 20 seasons, but I'm so glad we got an EC dedicated to Indian food! Of course it was dampened a bit by the passing of Her Majesty, but I'm glad the Top Chef producers were able to pull it together and have the challenge in the kitchen. The Indian set decor was a nice touch.

That being said, I did find it odd that this challenge was not given the usual day before shopping trip and several hours of prep. I wonder if the Queens' passing affected more than just the venue the EC was supposed to be held at.

I'm surprised Gabri has managed to remain in the competition as long as he has. With a double elimination team challenge the following episode, I don't think he'll be able to outrun the clock much longer.

On 5/12/2023 at 12:05 AM, Daisychain said:

I am most surprised by the fact that I've eaten a truckload or 3 of Indian food and never had a proper thali, which was presented as a sort-of prototypical Indian presentation.  I am not eating at the right restaurants?

Thalis are amazing and delicious. If you live in the NYC area, check out the recently opened Mahal which is about 45 minutes outside of Manhattan. I've gone back for their Maharaja Thali no less than three times and brought my friends from far and wide to sample it as well. The executive chef was head chef at Tamarind Tribeca (one of the best Indian restaurants in NYC) for 15 years. If you happen to live in New Jersey, the chain Mithaas offers three or four thaalis from different regions in India. Mithaas is all vegetarian but you'll find the kind of authentic street food and snacks Indians love and crave.

The thing about Indian food is its so damn diverse because India is a subcontinent comprised of hundreds of different ethnolinguistic groups, each with their own unique cuisine. The Indian food that has made it abroad is really just a smattering of mostly Punjab, Mughlai, and South Indian dishes.

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Rahul

[Rahul]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:46 PM, Daisychain said:

Yes, after last week's episode we got my usual butter chicken from our favorite Indian restaurant here in the suburbs - and in addition to chutney I got the kachumber and raita, and some papadum.   Both the kachumber and raita had a lot of parsley which added a lot of herbiness, but the kachumber had at least some spice or pickle - I couldn't quite figure it out.  There were a lot of delicious ways to combine the bites, especially because the papadum and rice were not bland at all.

Indian food typically doesn't employ parsley (I can't speak for all because there are so many types and dishes I am unfamiliar with). That herbaceous-ness in the raita and kuchumber would typically be from cilantro.

[Leeds]

5 hours ago, Rahul said:

Indian food typically doesn't employ parsley (I can't speak for all because there are so many types and dishes I am unfamiliar with). That herbaceous-ness in the raita and kuchumber would typically be from cilantro.

Unfortunately, a lot of North Americans have an aversion to cilantro so the restaurant may have made the decision to switch to parsley to avoid food waste/dishes being sent back.

To anyone who wants to eat more truly authentic food, I can speak from experience that if you persevere, that "soapy" taste will go away and you will end up enjoying cilantro.

[kirklandia]

7 hours ago, Leeds said:

Unfortunately, a lot of North Americans have an aversion to cilantro

It's genetic!

https://www.britannica.com/story/why-does-cilantro-taste-like-soap-to-some-people

[sATL]

Just wanted to add, this esposide was fascinating to me. I had no idea of what a Thali was. I admire anyone for getting 6 dishes plus rice ready for a meal. My head would spin. How often is a Thali served to the family- every day?

It's funny how the pleasure memory of food served at an Indian school was equal to a high caliber chef. Lunchtime must was a damn good meal each day.

That memory discussion was a long, long, long way from my public school hot lunch memories - meaning I hope a trained chef would make it better than my memory & the cafeteria staff. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by sATL

[Daisychain]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:12 PM, Rahul said:

Indian food typically doesn't employ parsley (I can't speak for all because there are so many types and dishes I am unfamiliar with). That herbaceous-ness in the raita and kuchumber would typically be from cilantro.

Yes, quite right, but I don't know why . . . there are so many US folks who experience the flavor of cilantro as soap.  Cilantro grows widely in the southern US, and Mexico is in North America, but still some of us Nothern folks (I am in Chicago IL) freak out a little.  I don't, but I can still tolerate only a light flavor of cilantro.  It's sold in every grocery store around me, but in other words, a little bit goes a long way.  Sometimes in American recipes, a substitution for cilantro is parsley plus some acid.  Forgot my point totally, forgive me.  I did think learning more flavor profiles of Indian food was amazing - had another deliver this evening.