Going Out With a Whimper: Season 7 Discussion

[Affogato]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:40 PM, Bill1978 said:

Honestly, I feel like the writers are gonna pull a Lost and we learn that the comet hit Riverdale and Season 7 has been them living in the afterlife. And therefore, they can claim all the characters who didn't return this season survived the impact. It would also explain why all the characters who died previously are present in Season 7. And it turns out that the reason why Tabitha appears and disappears is because she is slipping in and out of a coma.

Of course, it's more likely the writers will never address the comet or the time travel.

It does resemble the afterlife that showed up at some point.

[AnimeMania]

S07.E15: Chapter One Hundred and Thirty-Two: Miss Teen Riverdale

AND THE WINNER IS… — It’s time for the town’s annual Miss Teen Riverdale pageant and Betty (Lili Reinhart), Veronica (Camila Mendes), Cheryl (Madelaine Petsch) and Toni (Vanessa Morgan) each have their own reasons for entering. However, when Alice (Madchen Amick) doesn’t allow Ethel (guest star Shannon Purser) to enter the pageant, the girls band together to make sure she has a fighting chance. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2023    9pm    CW 

[Demian]

Mary's dress shop is called "Perky in Peach"?  Really?  Wonder why the pageant gowns weren't as hideously fug as that prom dress she wore in the movie.

And I'm not really buying WASP extraordinaire Alice Cooper making lasagna.

 

[Simba122504]

We're supposed to believe Veronica invented the birth control pill. Fuck you, show. The series is still terrible, but I enjoyed the episode because a beauty pageant was the main plot. The season has no plot. 

[The Wild Sow]

If the main 4 had pulled out of the pageant, wouldn't Evelyn have won by default? Although a one-contestant pageant couldn't have been good for RIVW's ratings I guess!

[SourK]

Ethel seems to have demonic powers that can shape reality and she murdered a tertiary character. She perfectly embodies Riverdale's ideals and shenanigans on anyone who says otherwise.

My favourite part of the pageant was that the organizers knew who's a series regular and who's a recurring guest star, because the guest stars had to walk together.

I also loved how casually everyone accepted that Cheryl could be in the pageant even though her parents sponsor it, and Betty could be there even though her parents are the hosts. If there's one thing that stays the same no matter what dimension this show is taking place in, it's a huge conflict of interest.

I also love that they created the scholarship as a way to explain why Betty would participate, and then they immediately walked it back and explained why she didn't need the scholarship so it would be okay when Ethel won.

On a more serious note, when the girls decided that the only toxic thing about beauty pageants was the swimsuit portion, I really thought about it, and I was like, "No, I still feel like a contest where people just fundamentally judge you as a person is kind of messed up." Like, can't it be an essay contest, or a talent show, or a pie-eating expo, or something where you're competing in a specific domain other than being a person?

[ruby24]

This episode was ok, but why were they not allowed to explicitly state why Ethel didn't embody the "ideals" of Miss Teen Riverdale? It seemed like they kept dancing around it without saying it. It should be obvious, esp for the 1950's, that what they were looking at in those pageants was a certain body type, not whether Ethel murdered her parents or not. 

They had no problem stating that Toni wanted to be the only black woman on stage and acknowledging that would likely preclude her from winning. But when she says Ethel has as about much chance of winning as she does, no one has said it's because of her weight.

That was sort of weird, imo.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, it definitely felt like the show was dancing around the fact that Ethel's body shape would probably be held against her by these particular judges, and considering how on the nose this show usually is, it was a little weird they held back.  Unless they felt it would be in poor taste for Shannon Purser?  But even then, I feel like she probably knows that her body isn't considered "conventionally beautiful" by industry/pageant standards, so I don't really buy that.  I don't know: it was all strangely clunky.

If nothing else, they did keep me guessing on who would win, because the judges being Mayor Blossom, Dr. Werthers, and Principal Featherhead did make things unpredictable on that front.  But I didn't predict that it would be Alice who would go rogue and call Ethel live on air, even though Betty actually won.  Definitely think she has a soft spot after-all and wasn't just trying to prevent Betty from winning because if she just wanted to spite Betty, she probably would have just named Evelyn the winner.  But I guess she still has a heart after-all!

I can't even start on the idea that Veronica came up with the idea for the birth control pill.  Classic Riverdale!

The guys got an easy one tonight, but there reactions watching the pageant like a sports game were great.  Charles Melton in particular was really camping it up and I highly approve! 

Speaking of which, Lili Reinhart was really going all out with the initial "WTF?!" reactions to everything at the beginning, which I also highly approve of.  Only got a few episodes left, guys!  Make sure no scenery survives the chewing!

[rmontro]

No surprise Betty really won, but I would have liked to have seen Veronica's acrobat act.  I kind of liked that the guys were mostly missing other than to show up to drool over the girls (even Ethel!) at the end.  Also enjoyed Kevin's South Pacific song.

I wonder what Alice's real motivation was in choosing Ethel as the winner?  Was Betty right that she has a good streak in her, and she knew Ethel deserved to win?

[PositiveBean]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:39 PM, ruby24 said:

There’s something really weird and noticeable about Jughead not interacting with any other main character on the show this season. Has he had any scenes with Archie even?

I posted a while ago how Cole may as well have been on a different set last and most of this season. Because of issues he was having, including with some cast members, Jughead was mostly isolated with Tabitha and guest stars. There had been stories about it for months prior to what we’re seeing on screen. Jughead being the narrator, writer, time traveler, whatever doesn’t matter. He was narrating for over five seasons while always still in the A scenes with Betty, Archie, Toni, etc. However it seems he pulled it together and they finished the series as a solid group professionally. Without giving away spoilers we should be seeing more of Jughead integrated with the main group as we near the end. 

I’m really enjoying this season and wish they had gone with different universes after season 2 or 3, when it was already obvious the writers wanted to play with different pairings. Start fresh each season with a new decade, new themes, and “new” characters in different relationships be they romantic, friends, or adversarial. We could enjoy watching different versions of our faves without arguing how they were acting out of character. You could kill characters off and bring them back like they did this season. Speaking of, Nicholas Barasch is a gem as Julian.

It’s not perfect but it’s been fun to watch. I was never a fan of Archie but love him this season. My favorite “triangle” has been Archie/Betty/Reggie but dang if I don’t enjoy the way Dilton crushes on her. Love Jughead and Ethel. I appreciate seeing Cole‘s charm again in their scenes. Jughead and Tabitha were meh and I wish we could have seen Erinn work more with other cast members. Love love love Betty and Veronica. Not shipping them romantically but the chemistry between Lili and Cami is fantastic and they’re finally writing them as a solid bestie duo. Lili to me has always been the MVP and does wonders with the shit they throw at them but I’m into this lighter more fun version of Betty. I could go on because again, really appreciating the changes this season. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by PositiveBean

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I wonder what Alice's real motivation was in choosing Ethel as the winner?  Was Betty right that she has a good streak in her, and she knew Ethel deserved to win?

I feel odd speculating, as she is a fictional character, but I would say that it was Hal telling her it was fine to let Ethel compete because she wasn't going to win anyways. I think Alice wanted to spite him.

Possibly a side of having a soft spot for Ethel, or the prize money - Alice is Ethel's guardian now, I'm not sure if that comes with some financial responsibility for her/her future.

[Bill1978]

I quite enjoyed this episode and as saccharine as the lyrics were I really enjoyed the song Ethel sang. And you just know if this season was set in the present, she would have sang Never Enough from The Greatest Showman.

As much as I'm enjoying this season (the best since Season 1 imo), I do feel for the fans who have persevered through 7 seasons to only be given a final season of randomness that clearly has no interest in tying up 6 seasons of 'character development' or even the time travel plot.  I will give the writers credit though; they are at least still having fun writing for the show unlike the vibe the Glee writers were giving in that show's final season.

3 hours ago, PositiveBean said:

Without giving away spoilers we should be seeing more of Jughead integrated with the main group as we near the end. 

I hope so, because at the moment whenever Jughead has a scene with any of the main cast members, I get distracted from the shock I feel that he is sharing a scene and interacting with them. Haha.

[rmontro]

19 hours ago, secnarf said:

Possibly a side of having a soft spot for Ethel, or the prize money - Alice is Ethel's guardian now, I'm not sure if that comes with some financial responsibility for her/her future.

I had forgotten that, that makes a lot of sense.  Setting Ethel up with a scholarship and whatnot removes a lot of responsibility from her shoulders.  We've already heard Betty is going to be set regardless.  And maybe you could  be right about sticking it to Hal, too.  And maybe the patriarchy while we're at it.

[AnimeMania]

S07.E16: Chapter One Hundred and Thirty-Three: Stag

CURIOUS MINDS — Veronica (Camila Mendes) sets up a screening at the Babylonium after Julian (guest star Nicholas Barasch) gets his hands on a stag film and invites Archie (KJ Apa), Reggie (Charles Melton) and the guys over for a watch party. Betty (Lili Reinhart) unexpectedly reunites with Polly (guest star Tiera Skovbye) and learns about her sister’s new life in New York. Elsewhere, Jughead (Cole Sprouse) goes to war with Dr. Werthers (guest star Malcolm Stewart) over his censure of comic books. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, July 26, 2023    9pm    CW 

[Dobian]

I don't care that Alice did the "decent thing" in the end.  I still can't stand her.  She has always been by far the most unlikable character on this show to me.  At least Hiram could be a fun villain to hate.  But Alice has been consistently nauseating for seven seasons.

[Demian]

Are we ever going to get an explanation for how the songs in the musical numbers are bleeding back into 1955?  Last week featured "Who Will Love Me As I Am?" from Sideshow in 1997, and tonight had "Rose's Turn" from Gypsy, which premiered on Broadway in 1959.

That said, I loved how they incorporated both Mama Cooper and Mama Blossom into that particular Gypsy montage.

Also?  The whole Reggie and Archie storyline tonight was extremely homophobic, because of the obvious parody of gaybaiting.  Kiss Kiss Kiss!

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

But Alice has been consistently nauseating for seven seasons.

At least Alice has been consistent -- nearly everyone else in this glorious mess of a show has ping-ponged all over the fucking place.

By the way, I love the costuming and production design on this season.  Am I allowed to say that, or should I be shitting on everything?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

21 hours ago, Demian said:

Are we ever going to get an explanation for how the songs in the musical numbers are bleeding back into 1955?  Last week featured "Who Will Love Me As I Am?" from Sideshow in 1997, and tonight had "Rose's Turn" from Gypsy, which premiered on Broadway in 1959.

The characters invented them in this timeline?

[thuganomics85]

This show really can't decide on what kind of coupling they want, huh?  Because not only is Jughead/Veronica back on the table, but now Archie and Reggie might be something more?  I think?  It seems like they did have that threesome with Twyla, but they didn't hook-up with each other and their whole "I love you" exchange was the way for the show to hedge their bets on what kind of love they are really talking about.  It's just all over the place.  To their credit, K.J. Apa and Charles Melton seem to be having a lot of fun playing off one another, and the Archie/Reggie duo in general have been one of the highlights this season for me.

So, now we finally catch up on good old Polly, who after an initial foray into Stag films (without her consent), has become a successful burlesque dancer.  Also, Alice (and Hal) knew about it and didn't approve, which is why she's not been around.  Not sure why Betty would stick around at that house now thanks to that slap from Alice (complete with slo-mo.)  I imagine she could crash at Veronica's place at this point.

Werthers and crew are now basically forcing the comic company to either fall in line with their "guidelines" or they won't be able to sell comics anymore.  I'm sure this is far from over!

I'm guessing the reason Cheryl wants those negatives from her pin-up shoot with Toni is because she wants to go ahead and publish them after-all so that her parents would have to deal with the fallout over it.

[ruby24]

There's four episodes left and I have no idea where this show is going. Why pivot back to Veronica and Jughead now? They haven't had any scenes together since that first time and if anything it seems like it was building to him and Ethel kissing eventually.

I guess I just don't get it.  And now one of the last four episodes is about Josie, who hasn't been on in forever?

There are things about this season I like, like Archie and Reggie's friendship, but can this possibly end in a way that's satisfying to anyone at this point?

Edited July 28, 2023 by ruby24

[rmontro]

On 7/26/2023 at 11:26 PM, Demian said:

Also?  The whole Reggie and Archie storyline tonight was extremely homophobic, because of the obvious parody of gaybaiting.

I think more the opposite.  At this point, there's barely a "heteronormal" character on this show, with Reggie and Archie showing interest in the wrestling movie and living like "the Beats", and having a "devil's threeway" with the hooker.  If this is what they're like in the oppressive '50s, seriously, the rest of this series should have just been one non-stop orgy among all the characters.

[SourK]

"Polly isn't on Broadway; she's a burlesque performer. Come to her burlesque performance where she sings a Broadway song from a show about burlesque."

Anyway.

I understand what Riverdale is, now. It's a show about having a sexual awakening related to the world of Archie comics. And that's expressed by forcing all of the characters from the comics to keep having sexual awakenings over and over again. If they move too far away from that, they get reset somehow.

The natural endpoint is exactly what we're getting now, which is this, like, bi, poly utopia where people just stare at the sunrise and accept themselves and stuff.

And I find that I weirdly don't hate it? Like, I think it's kind of juvenile, but it has this weird gentleness to it, where it's like, "Yes, my Archie fanfic is that everyone grows up to not have shame & turns out super open-minded."

Like, that's not a good fanfic but it's still kind of nice?

Am I crazy?

I didn't think I'd fold and try to start liking the show right at the end.

[tennisgurl]

I know that Riverdale has always been Roberto's personal fanfic that he somehow tricked the CW into filming, but it has truly reached its peak this season. Its like as soon as he realized that this was the last season, he wanted to get as many pairings and sexual situations in as he possible could, no fantasy left unshown. So now we're back to Veronica and Jughead, for whatever reason, and are even teasing Reggie and Archie and the "wrestling" video, which was admittedly pretty funny. They'll just keep watching until maybe a woman shows up...

Its hilarious that Cheryl was the only person to comment on how maybe she and Toni should wait until they aren't actual teenagers until they start selling their sexy pictures, but now of course she's going to let them all out. I'm all for sexual liberation and helping kids to find healthy ways to express their sexuality, but it really is pretty icky how much of this season is all about watching underaged characters in these very sexual situations nonstop, even if the actors are obviously pushing 30. 

Nice to see that things are going well for Polly in this universe, I was like "yeah that seems right sadly" when Betty saw her on the tape, but it seems like she's mostly living her best life. Good for her, poor Polly in the main universe just exists to be in danger, brainwashed, abused, and be serial killer bait.

I cant believe we're so close to the end of the entire show and we're still in this 50s AU. Its been mostly fun but I would like to at least check in on the Riverdale we've followed for years. 

[Dobian]

So all the comic books in the country have to get the Riverdale principal and school doctor's seal of approval or no one will distribute their magazines?  Huh?

The principal and the doctor are, in fact, deliberately trying to destroy all competition before their launch of National Lampoon.

Now Jughead is with Veronica, for...reasons.

Let's just completely forget about Tabitha.  Not only was she Jughead's gf in present-day Riverdale, she's also the angel trying to stop the meteor from hitting the town, which was the whole premise for this season.  And her and Jughead would have made for an interesting story with all the racial themes going on this season.  But nah, we haven't paired Jugs and Ronnie yet!

Speaking of the meteor and all that, they do plan to address the main plot again at some point...right?

Archie and Joey watching the wrestling film reminded me of Airplane! when the captain asks Joey, "Do you like movies about gladiators?"

It would have been better if the threesome was with Mrs. Grundy.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Dobian

[Bill1978]

As a standalone season, I don't mind all these basically standalone episodes that don't progress an overall plot. And as a casual fan, it really doesn't bother me that big picture wise this show is heading to a very unsatisfying ending for a 7-season long show. I can only imagine how disappointed the diehard fans must be feeling about the story this season. Although I have a feeling the comic book storyline is going to play into the ending of this show somehow and it will be presented as giving us closure to the present-day Riverdale.

The Reggie/Archie storyline while entertaining, it resulted in the show falling into the classic TV trope where 2 supposedly straight guys can't be seen exploring their sexuality on screen but if they were female, we would have at least got a kiss on screen.

With Josie returning in the next episode, that really only leaves Moose and Jason as the only teenage characters, who made regular appearances in the past 6 seasons, not to have appeared yet in the final season.

 

 

[Affogato]

I loved Madchen Amick's dress and the way she was sitting on the couch as Betty confronted her.

I don't know anything at all about the Cole Sprouse controversies and who is right or wrong or anything, really, but I'm sorry we haven't seen him interact more with the others. to me, his point of view informed the rest of it and made them human, rather than iconic.

I'm glad Ethyl got some love this season.

I really like the comics code story. Since Archie is a comic book the future of our heroes depends on their comic code rights and freedoms. There is a parallel to real life, particularly with some of the rights and freedoms under reconsideration in current times. Also, the show runner is a comics person, and this is probably A theme that is dear to his heart.

Like many people I don't expect that all of the previous stories will be resolved and I don't really care about any of them at this point, neither that meteor or any romantic pairings. This show has been more like a comic book that most comic book based shows, and there are some common threads, like Hal is creepy snd Cheryl paints and Betty is a mechanic, but they are different arcs. I'm still sorry Jughead didn't become a werewolf.

Of course, it is possible that Jughead and Betty wake up in bed together and it was all a weird dream of Jugheads. Got to love Bob Newhart.

14 hours ago, Dobian said:

So all the comic books in the country have to get the Riverdale principal and school doctor's seal of approval or no one will distribute their magazines?  Huh?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority

 

The Comics Code Authority (CCA) was formed in 1954 by the Comics Magazine Association of America as an alternative to government regulation. The CCA enabled comic publishers to self-regulate the content of comic books in the United States. The code was voluntary, as there was no law requiring its use, although some advertisers and retailers looked to it for reassurance. Some publishers, including Dell, Western, and Classics Illustrated, never used it. Its code, commonly called "the Comics Code", lasted until the early 21st century. The CC formation followed a moral panic centered around a series of Senate hearings and the publication of psychiatrist Fredric Wertham's book Seduction of the Innocent.

Members submitted comics to the CCA, which screened them for adherence to its code, then authorized the use of their seal on the cover if the book was found to be in compliance. At the height of its influence, it was a de facto censor for the entire U.S. comic book industry.

[Dobian]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority

The Comics Code Authority (CCA) was formed in 1954 by the Comics Magazine Association of America as an alternative to government regulation.

Right, but they make it like a hicksville high school principal runs the whole thing.

[ruby24]

7 hours ago, Affogato said:

 

Of course, it is possible that Jughead and Betty wake up in bed together and it was all a weird dream of Jugheads. Got to love Bob Newhart.

 

 

It'd be kind of hilarious if this happened and I honestly wouldn't completely rule it out, given everything that we've watched for the past two years.

and i do find it curious that cole and lili were the ones filming the last scenes of the show, that's got to mean something. after ignoring betty/jughead for the past two seasons completely, would they come back to them in the final episode? or final scene, even?

I have always thought it extremely strange that they abandoned that couple so much given how important they were to the show for the first four seasons. That's too long to give up a show's central couple, unless a cast member leaves the series or something. So maybe the plan was to come back to them at the very, very end.

Would still be really weird and not satisfying though. 

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

Right, but they make it like a hicksville high school principal runs the whole thing.

Yeah, this was an issue I had with that scene. I understood that there was a code back in the 1950s, but the show presents that part of history as being the brainchild of a school counsellor who holds sway over the entire nation, instead of just influencing the Riverdale district.

The show definitely made it clear that it was the school council who came up with the code the Riverdale printers were to abide by, not that they were passing on the information developed by a larger more influential committee.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I have always thought it extremely strange that they abandoned that couple so much given how important they were to the show for the first four seasons. That's too long to give up a show's central couple, unless a cast member leaves the series or something. So maybe the plan was to come back to them at the very, very end.

Would still be really weird and not satisfying though. 

That's the big problem this season.  They invested in Jughead and Tabitha last year and abandoned that too.  Then they paired Jugehad with Ethel, albeit platonically, but have ditched that so he can hook him up with Veronica.  The writers can't make up their mind on anything.  Why would anyone want to invest their interest in a Jughead/Veronica pairing with only four episodes to go?  It makes no sense.

[the-grey-lady]

On 8/1/2023 at 7:55 PM, Dobian said:

That's the big problem this season.  They invested in Jughead and Tabitha last year and abandoned that too.  Then they paired Jugehad with Ethel, albeit platonically, but have ditched that so he can hook him up with Veronica.  The writers can't make up their mind on anything.  Why would anyone want to invest their interest in a Jughead/Veronica pairing with only four episodes to go?  It makes no sense.

I don't think any of this is supposed to make sense or have any narrative cohesion. They're just doing what seems fun in the moment. They're not building lasting relationships or endgames.

Edited August 5, 2023 by the-grey-lady

[AnimeMania]

S07.E17: Chapter One Hundred and Thirty-Four: A Different Kind of Cat
TAKING THE TOWN BY STORM — Betty (Lili Reinhart) enlists help from Cheryl (Madelaine Petsch) and Toni (Vanessa Morgan) after deciding she’s going to publish her own book. Veronica (Camila Mendes), Kevin (Casey Cott) and Clay (guest star Karl Walcott) host Hollywood movie star Josie McCoy (guest star Ashleigh Murray), who is in town to screen her latest film. Finally, Archie’s (KJ Apa) attempt to take his poetry to the next level doesn’t go as planned. 

Premiere Date: Wednesday, August 2, 2023    9pm    CW 

[ruby24]

So the description of the series finale is out. Says we catch up with 86-year-old Betty in the present day and she wants to remember the last day of her senior year with her friends.

So...this sounds like we're catching up with 86-year-old Betty aged up from her 50's self. And then flashing back to the 50's again? 

TV Line was making it sound like we're going back to present day Riverdale but that sure doesn't sound like it to me.

[StewieGriffin]

I don't know what this show is even about anymore but after 7 years and 3 episodes left I gotta stick with it till the end.

[Bill1978]

Welcome back Josie and congrats on your Tony Award. Although based on that one song that was performed from the movie, I don't think Going Uptown would interest me, but that song was heaps better than the song performed at The Dark Room. I found it interesting that they decided to make Josie older in the 1950s than regular Riverdale.

Lots of throwback references across the Archieverse. Not only did we get the anvil hit of Sabrina, but we got an Alexander Cabot mention, a picture of Fred Andrews and I assume Charles Clayton who was playing Macbeth opposite Josie's Lady Macbeth was a reference to Chuck?

I am so so glad, the show decided to not replay the original plot with Mrs. Grundy in this timeline.

And how dare Archie write about his dad without his uncle's permission! What was Archie thinking?

It's still mindboggling that with 3 episodes left to go, it seems the writers really do not care that this is the last season from a narrative point of view. They just seem to want to write their favourite story pitch as a stand-alone episode, to hell with giving the audience any sort of meaningful closure. As crazy as the plots were in Glee's final season, you could at least see the writers had a vision for concluding their 6 seasons with purpose. The way this show is heading, the credits will roll on the final season, and we will all just be grateful to be done with the show and not recall the final episode at all.

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So...this sounds like we're catching up with 86-year-old Betty aged up from her 50's self. And then flashing back to the 50's again? 

If I've done my maths correctly, 86-year-old Betty would place the final episode in 2017 which is the year Riverdale debuted. So maybe there is same framing device that will make the first 6 seasons a retelling of Betty's teenage years which would explain all the old-time stuff appearing in a modern setting (you know confused memories of an old person) - although for that to truly work Betty should have been narrating the show from the beginning. Although honestly, I feel they are just making her old so they can justify having a goodbye montage of memories somewhere to feature all the characters that have been on the show.

[thuganomics85]

Okay, there are a ton of things; too many to list; that I have to hand wave away on this show and just accept that this is what happens in this crazy little universe, but the mere fact that Reggie apparently told Julian about the threesome between him, Archie, and Twyla, is just too much for me.  Even if Julian has been a little better behaved compared to when he first started out, that relationship isn't anywhere at the level that I would buy Reggie letting that slip out and not expecting Julian to shout that to the world.  Ridiculous.  And there could have been so many other ways have it get out, so I don't know why they got so lazy and out of character here.

Anyway, so it looks like they are kind of walking back any kind of Archie/Reggie pairing (for now?), and instead having Archie go full-tilt back into crushing on older women.  First, he actually attempts to see if Twyla would want anything more than just a quick romp (actually thought she let him down more gently than I thought she would), and then once that goes to hell, he goes to the classic: yup, Miss Grundy!  At least this version of Grundy doesn't go for the statutory rape game and puts a lid on it before it started (and hopefully drops into an ocean, never to be seen or heard from again.)  So, now Archie is trying to write about his pain and focuses on his dad.  Until Uncle Frank finds out and goes into rage mode.  Credit to Ryan Robbins for going all red face and eye-popping in that scene.

Josie finally makes her return to Riverdale, I see!  In this universe, she is a successful theater actress, who creates her own film on the play, after the studio tries to recast her with Lana Turner instead.  Luckily for her, she has a kindred spirit with Veronica and premiere the film to rave reviews.  Like it would go any other way.  What was a little more surprising is that Veronica kind of showed herself to be a crappy boss.  Woman was just going all in with belittling Kevin and Clay for something out of their control and something they were in the process of trying to fix.  No one likes it when the person in charge just goes into "The sky is falling!" mode and plays the blame game after the first setback.  Poor form, V.

Meanwhile, Betty learns about the art of masterbation.  That's it, really!

Man, did I almost cough up a lung once I realized that they were going to have Jughead create Sabrina the Teenage Witch.  Really, that's on me for not seeing that was in the cards.  Classic Riverdale!

[Simba122504]

On 8/1/2023 at 11:43 AM, Affogato said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority

 

The Comics Code Authority (CCA) was formed in 1954 by the Comics Magazine Association of America as an alternative to government regulation. The CCA enabled comic publishers to self-regulate the content of comic books in the United States. The code was voluntary, as there was no law requiring its use, although some advertisers and retailers looked to it for reassurance. Some publishers, including Dell, Western, and Classics Illustrated, never used it. Its code, commonly called "the Comics Code", lasted until the early 21st century. The CC formation followed a moral panic centered around a series of Senate hearings and the publication of psychiatrist Fredric Wertham's book Seduction of the Innocent.

Members submitted comics to the CCA, which screened them for adherence to its code, then authorized the use of their seal on the cover if the book was found to be in compliance. At the height of its influence, it was a de facto censor for the entire U.S. comic book industry.

You cannot pretend comic book censorship was the biggest issue in the '50s. It was just one of many. Nothing these characters are doing, especially in this nowhere town would actually fly in the 1950s! Josie's movie plot was laughable. White female stars couldn't even do that. Their lives were controlled by the studio system. Women were not allowed to make their own movies. We're supposed to pretend a big film premiere for her movie would be possible?  Not only that,  she would get rave reviews and the film would be some huge blockbuster?  Betty could release some kind of teenage "Sex and the City" book?  Queer people,  especially teenagers could just be themselves?  I don't even remember any book or documentary talking about an underground lesbian magazine or magazines talking about masturbation? What company distributed this magazine?  The list goes on. Oh, and the code wasn't created or ruled by some hickville people. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Simba122504

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

You cannot pretend comic book censorship was the biggest issue in the '50s. It was just one of many. Nothing these characters are doing, especially in this nowhere town would actually fly in the 1950s! Josie's movie plot was laughable. White female stars couldn't even do that. Their lives were controlled by the studio system. Women were not allowed to make their own movies. We're supposed to pretend a big film premiere for her movie would be possible?  Not only that,  she would get rave reviews and the film would be some huge blockbuster?  Betty could release some kind of teenage "Sex and the City" book?  Queer people,  especially teenagers could just be themselves?  I don't even remember any book or documentary talking about an underground lesbian magazine or magazines talking about masturbation? What company distributed this magazine?  The list goes on. Oh, and the code wasn't created or ruled by some hickville people. 

This is a comic book story and Aguirre-Sarcaso is not only the showrunner for this television show, but is a television and comics writer and Chief Creative Officer for Archie Comics. I don't think they are claiming it is the biggest issue, but they are certainly justified in dealing with it as an issue. I think, at least in this season, Jughead is Aguirre-Sarcaso's avatar, too.

It is possible that Betty will end up writing books, possibly for teens, going forward, highlighting some of the things that couldn't happen in real life. We may even hear about what actually happened to Josie and Polly and many of the other characters that she is giving such positive endings.

Riverdale has long been a town that expands to fit the needs. In fairness, there are a lot of movies and television shows set in New York or LA, and a lot of things happen outside of New York and LA.

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, if the show decided to retcon that this entire show is just the ramblings of a very old Betty, in the early stages of a stroke or is just making shit up to entertain her grandkids, I would just laugh because it does explain a lot. It seems like we will at least get to check in with the main Riverdale by the end of the show, but its still so wild (even by this shows standards) that the entire last run of this show has been one big alternate universe. 

Jughead creating Sabrina is so hilarious, its so dumb that I love it. Its sort of weird how much the show is spending so much time on this comics code stuff, but it does make sense from a meta perspective. Archie did start out as a comic, and the Archie comics were always very much associated with the Comics Code, so its kind of fun. Plus, yet another way to keep Jughead away from the rest of the cast. So when does real Sabrina show up to get everyone back to their usual timeline? 

Thank God this worlds version of Grundy isn't a sexual predator, I was very worried about where this stuff with Archie as going. Still don't love how a bunch of in-universe high school juniors having sex with an adult sex worker is being used so often, its cringe at best. 

Nice to see Josie, its interesting that she's older than the rest of the Riverdale gang. There is a really obvious "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" joke here somewhere, but I haven't found it yet. Of course Veronica jumps at the chance to use her movie theater for a big showcase, although it must have hurt her to let someone else get the big song for one night. She was also really shitty to Kevin and Clay, any good boss knows that sometimes shit happens that is out of everyone's control and you have to deal, not assign blame and panic. Its almost like a teenager might not be ready to run their own movie theater on their own. 

So Uncle Frank has decided that Archie isn't allowed to write poem about his own deceased father? Isn't it about time Uncle Frank gets kicked out of the house?

Lots of Archie shout outs in this one, I guess we really are getting close to the endgame.

[Simba122504]

10 hours ago, Affogato said:

This is a comic book story and Aguirre-Sarcaso is not only the showrunner for this television show, but is a television and comics writer and Chief Creative Officer for Archie Comics. I don't think they are claiming it is the biggest issue, but they are certainly justified in dealing with it as an issue. I think, at least in this season, Jughead is Aguirre-Sarcaso's avatar, too.

It is possible that Betty will end up writing books, possibly for teens, going forward, highlighting some of the things that couldn't happen in real life. We may even hear about what actually happened to Josie and Polly and many of the other characters that she is giving such positive endings.

Riverdale has long been a town that expands to fit the needs. In fairness, there are a lot of movies and television shows set in New York or LA, and a lot of things happen outside of New York and LA.

I know this series is based on a comic book and I already know about AS. That still doesn't change the fact that this is one of the worst written shows of all time and will go down as such. It's a pradody of the '50s.  The series itself, it is like one of the worst comic books of all time. 😂 There are kids out there who will think the '50s were really like this show. I would hope they read and not just watch Riverfail.  I was gone for so long that I'm not very invested in the series as a whole. 

[rmontro]

I just don't buy the Jughead/Veronica romance, can't see it.  Nope.

Why does Uncle Frank have to be such a dick?

This season seems to be people with 2023 sensibilities living in the '50s, which I guess is what is going on.  Still, it might be nice to see some of the cool aspects of the '50s (which were there), instead of preaching how awful they were all the time.  You know, the 2020s aren't perfect either (and that's a damn understatement).

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

I know this series is based on a comic book and I already know about AS. That still doesn't change the fact that this is one of the worst written shows of all time and will go down as such. It's a pradody of the '50s.  The series itself, it is like one of the worst comic books of all time. 😂 There are kids out there who will think the '50s were really like this show. I would hope they read and not just watch Riverfail.  I was gone for so long that I'm not very invested in the series as a whole. 

I think the show makes it obvious that the idealized fifties is just that, you constantly circle back to reality in the show. 

[the-grey-lady]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:47 PM, ruby24 said:

TV Line was making it sound like we're going back to present day Riverdale but that sure doesn't sound like it to me.

We're not. But supposedly there will be bits in other dimensions to show...something.

On 8/3/2023 at 4:42 AM, Bill1978 said:

It's still mindboggling that with 3 episodes left to go, it seems the writers really do not care that this is the last season from a narrative point of view. They just seem to want to write their favourite story pitch as a stand-alone episode, to hell with giving the audience any sort of meaningful closure. As crazy as the plots were in Glee's final season, you could at least see the writers had a vision for concluding their 6 seasons with purpose. The way this show is heading, the credits will roll on the final season, and we will all just be grateful to be done with the show and not recall the final episode at all.

Perfect summation.

If you're watching and thinking, "But what about the fans?" remember that the writers don't care about the fans or what they want. They're doing what they want (I can't believe what they want is this).

And the ratings and the social media reaction reflect this.

[ruby24]

What's weird is that it also says she goes back to her friends their senior year, with their memories restored. WTH does that mean? Their memories from when exactly? 

And so it's their senior year in the 50's but they all have their memories, so they know they're not really teens anymore and are all wondering why they're in the 50's? 

Or are we going back to their original senior year that we saw in Season 4? But with their memories restored from the events that happened after that? 

I do not get that description at all.

[the-grey-lady]

2 hours ago, ruby24 said:

What's weird is that it also says she goes back to her friends their senior year, with their memories restored. WTH does that mean? Their memories from when exactly? 

And so it's their senior year in the 50's but they all have their memories, so they know they're not really teens anymore and are all wondering why they're in the 50's? 

Or are we going back to their original senior year that we saw in Season 4? But with their memories restored from the events that happened after that? 

I do not get that description at all.

It is really poorly-written.

[SourK]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:21 AM, thuganomics85 said:

What was a little more surprising is that Veronica kind of showed herself to be a crappy boss.  Woman was just going all in with belittling Kevin and Clay for something out of their control and something they were in the process of trying to fix.  No one likes it when the person in charge just goes into "The sky is falling!" mode and plays the blame game after the first setback.  Poor form, V.

On the one hand, they said it would take five minutes to fix and that seemed normal and fair. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure Kevin was just spinning an empty reel for no reason while he said it.

Either way, every movie premiere at Veronica's theatre gets interrupted somehow. She should be used to it by now.

I found the scene after a little bit weird and annoying. If we're building to a climax where the the reviewer writes a good review... why not set the scene the next day so they can read it in the paper? Why is Veronica reading it from a notebook right after the audience leaves? Did she steal the reporter's notebook? Did she copy his review by hand? Is she even a trustworthy source of information about what the review will say?

So confusing.

[Affogato]

19 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

It is really poorly-written.

No, it is really well written. It is meant to be ambiguous, to not give anything away.

[Dobian]

So Mrs. Grundy isn't into young carrot tops in this universe.

Uncle Frank, the relative no one wants but who never leaves, makes the case again for why this character never needed to have been written.

Can Sprouse and Mendes make it any more obvious that there is zero chemistry between Jughead and Veronica?

Underground lesbian magazines outing teens and teens appearing in lingerie on the cover of their own sex advice books in the 1950s.  Yep, that's exactly how it was.

Josie and the Hep Cats?

Ethel had a good run before joining Tabitha in the ether.  Short-term memory loss is a tricky thing.

You do remember Tabitha, writers?  You know, the angel who saved the gang from the meteor and sent them back to the 50s, and was working on a way to restore them to the present?  That Tabitha.

I guess we'll never learn what the whole grand conspiracy is between Clifford Blossom and the principal and Werthers and the Milk Man and whatever else, because Riverdale is getting nuked next week!  Yay!!

 

[the-grey-lady]

21 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Can Sprouse and Mendes make it any more obvious that there is zero chemistry between Jughead and Veronica?

No. Watching them kiss was genuinely painful. It was like a parody of young teenagers making out.

[PositiveBean]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

You do remember Tabitha, writers?  You know, the angel who saved the gang from the meteor and sent them back to the 50s, and was working on a way to restore them to the present?  That Tabitha.

Erinn asked to be released so this is why Tabitha has been missing most of the season. I’d say they could have done a better job of her absence but I’m not that dumb. Maybe they will bring her back for the final episode but I’m not too confident. Erinn ran the hell out of there right quick and hasn’t seemed to look back lol!

Then to throw Jughead and Veronica together and create one of their worst pairings ever right before the series ends? With Ethel right there and Shannon being one of the few who could click with Cole? Point blank stupid lol. Jughead/Tabitha were very meh but Jughead/Veronica may be their most anti chemistry pairing yet. Not sure why they brought Ethel back and isolated her mostly with Jughead just to sideline her as the fat friend.

Edited August 9, 2023 by PositiveBean

[the-grey-lady]

9 hours ago, PositiveBean said:

Erinn asked to be released so this is why Tabitha has been missing most of the season. I’d say they could have done a better job of her absence but I’m not that dumb. Maybe they will bring her back for the final episode but I’m not too confident. Erinn ran the hell out of there right quick and hasn’t seemed to look back lol!

Then to throw Jughead and Veronica together and create one of their worst pairings ever right before the series ends? With Ethel right there and Shannon being one of the few who could click with Cole? Point blank stupid lol. Jughead/Tabitha were very meh but Jughead/Veronica may be their most anti chemistry pairing yet. Not sure why they brought Ethel back and isolated her mostly with Jughead just to sideline her as the fat friend.

Erinn will be back in 7x19, but almost certainly not in the finale. I've seen quite a few people worried about Erinn being demoted. Don't be. She couldn't get out of there fast enough.

I totally agree about Jughead and Veronica. I thought Jughead/Tabitha was the worst they could do, because they're so stiff and awkward, but Jughead/Veronica are actually physically repellant. Cole and Erinn seem uncomfortable around each other; Cole and Cami seemed repulsed by each other.

I was hoping they'd finally have Jughead share some scenes with Betty, to acknowledge the show's most popular and long-running ship, but they seem determined to pretend that whole thing never happened.

Edited August 9, 2023 by the-grey-lady