S10.E06: Solitary Confinement

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Main topic: Solitary Confinement

Also: riots  in France due to change in retirement age; the last sliver of morality in Tucker Carlson's head tries to give him some advice; nobody reports the news like Fox 26's Isiah Carey; intellectual property law

Original air date 2023.04.02

[Annber03]

Oh, my freaking god, I laughed WAY too much at that segment about Isaiah Carey reporting the news XD. That was AMAZING. As was that shot of that couple just chilling and having drinks while the protests raged in France. Good on the French citizens for fighting back - here's to hoping their efforts will ultimately pay off. 

Yes, Tucker, please do listen to that voice and shut up. 

As for the main story, did not expect North Dakota, of all states, to be so forward-thinking in terms of how to handle the problem of solitary confinement, but good for them for trying something different and seeing some positive results from it. And good for them for removing employees who weren't on board with the idea, either, instead of keeping them on to try and hinder the progress. 

That recording of those sounds heard in solitary were terrifying. Like something straight out of a horror movie. And to think someone like Anthony Graves, who didn't even do the crime he was forced into solitary for (and for eighteen fucking years at that), to have to hear that sort of thing day in and day out for that long...yeah. No wonder the guy's struggling. That story was utterly heartbreaking.

And even for those who were guilty of their crimes, yeah, it does make sense that isolating them for an extended period of time, and giving them little to no outlet to deal with their issues, would not benefit them nor the public at large. It does seem like all prison tends to do nowadays is make people more violent when they come out instead of less, which, yeah, kinda defeats the whole entire point of what prison is, ostensibly supposed to do. It's so weird how resistant people tend to be to the idea of even trying to rehabilitate criminals. Are there some for whom such a thing may be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to do? Sure, probably. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try with anyone at all. 

[Sharpie66]

Big thumbs up to what Annber03 said re: solitary confinement. That noise was just horrific.

I look forward to what Disney’s lawyers will do to LWT after this episode. Their protection of their copyrights is second to none, followed very closely by Tolkien’s estate’s attorneys. I actually included the latter in a library school paper I wrote about fanfiction and its use by school librarians and teachers to encourage ESL and slow/non-readers. I went into the subject of fair use and examples of lawyers going after fanfic writers who tried to monetize some of their writing. (I’m still bummed I missed out on the t-shirt that was designed like a concert t but was Frodo and Sam’s journey to Mordor, with the dates from the book.)

[buttersister]

Disney lawyers? Yikes. LOL! 

 

[ahisma]

12 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Disney lawyers? Yikes. LOL! 

LWT is seriously playing with fire this time!

[ShadowKnight2]

Sorry. While Emmanuel Macron acted all arrogantly ham fisted over attempting to raise France's retirement age from 62 to 64, the violent reactions to it were over the top and counterproductive. At 64, that's still earlier than the retirement age here. All it will do is paint the protesters as a violent mob of crybabies. Look at how groups of marginalized people or those wanting gun control are being attacked for much less reactions. Busting up windows and setting cars on fire is not how you protest raising the retirement age by a couple of years.

Shut the fuck up, Tucker Carlson you racist! Your bigotry and hatred are well know.

Sadly, any attempts to discard solitary confinement will only fall on deaf ears. People are vindictive by nature and will not care if prisoners are locked away in small confinements for extended periods of time, despite what someone like Anthony Graves went through or the efforts of North Dakota trying something different that have positive effects.

Think long and hard at what your doing here, John Oliver. Just look at what those Disney lawyers did to Florida governor Ron DeSantis when he thought he got the better of Disney.

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, ShadowKnight2 said:

Sorry. While Emmanuel Macron acted all arrogantly ham fisted over attempting to raise France's retirement age from 62 to 64, the violent reactions to it were over the top and counterproductive. At 64, that's still earlier than the retirement age here.

I agree. It's possible that some of the protests are because of how Macron passed the law, but I think the majority of the protests are because of the actual change, not how it was done. 

I loved when John was talking about countries' different retirement ages, he said, "In the U.S. the retirement age is... no."

Regarding the main topic, in the first part of the story I was saying to myself, But what should prisons do to deal with violent prisoners? I was so glad to get an answer via what that prison in North Dakota is doing.

In the clip of Al Franken questioning the... whoever that guy was, I may have to rewatch, but I thought that the guy sitting behind the guy was looking down thru some papers trying not to laugh.

Great callback to the four Tik Tok guys going to solitary confinement for bad clothing choices. 

[Welshman in Ca]

1 hour ago, ShadowKnight2 said:

Sorry. While Emmanuel Macron acted all arrogantly ham fisted over attempting to raise France's retirement age from 62 to 64, the violent reactions to it were over the top and counterproductive. At 64, that's still earlier than the retirement age here. All it will do is paint the protesters as a violent mob of crybabies. Look at how groups of marginalized people or those wanting gun control are being attacked for much less reactions. Busting up windows and setting cars on fire is not how you protest raising the retirement age by a couple of years.

Think long and hard at what your doing here, John Oliver. Just look at what those Disney lawyers did to Florida governor Ron DeSantis when he thought he got the better of Disney.

It's the French way, always has been & always will be, ever hear of the French revolution? The retirement age in the USA has absolutely nothing to do with the retirement age in France, the American way is to say fuck you now you're old, go fend for yourself.

As for John poking the mouse (Disney) isn't that what he's always done ? He never stopped poking AT&T when they were his bosses and I'm pretty sure he knows the reputation the mouse has for dealing with people who go too far, see the Southpark  episode when Randy goes to China (I think).

[possibilities]

I don't really see the point in wasting resources challenging Disney. Spend your resources on something that will actually help something. Don't waste time on something just because it's there. I couldn't care less if Mickey is public domain or not.

[Lugal]

Interest note about that nursery that Disney sued and forced them to paint over the Disney characters: Afterwards Universal Studios and Hanna-Barbara personally sent their animators down to that nursery where they painted their own characters for the kids.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

In the clip of Al Franken questioning the... whoever that guy was, I may have to rewatch, but I thought that the guy sitting behind the guy was looking down thru some papers trying not to laugh.

I liked how Franken wasn't trying to do a deal or anything. "What is the square footage of the cell?" doesn't seem overly complicated. He looked legitimately confused as to why this was so difficult. 

I'm all for the freedom to assemble, but this French retirement issue response is kind of baffling. 

[ShadowKnight2]

1 hour ago, Welshman in Ca said:

It's the French way, always has been & always will be, ever hear of the French revolution? The retirement age in the USA has absolutely nothing to do with the retirement age in France, the American way is to say fuck you now you're old, go fend for yourself.

That may be the French way. But when you cause violence and destruction over something like raising the retirement age that most people would love to have, you're hard pressed to gain sympathy from the non French. This is not comparable to the French Revolution.

 

1 hour ago, Welshman in Ca said:

As for John poking the mouse (Disney) isn't that what he's always done ? He never stopped poking AT&T when they were his bosses and I'm pretty sure he knows the reputation the mouse has for dealing with people who go too far, see the Southpark  episode when Randy goes to China (I think).

True, but John Oliver IS deliberately poking Disney for this one bit. Will they go after him for that? Maybe, maybe not. But what I'm suggesting here is that his timing is off, considering how Disney just succeeded in tying DeSantis' hands legally after he thought he put them in their place.

[buttersister]

Quote

This is not comparable to the French Revolution.

I think John mentioned--and this is also my opinion from what I've read/seen--that the protests are over the method Macron used (let's call it non-democratic). 

Perhaps John and Co. think they're not evil like DeSantis, so Disney will pass. Yeah, nursery school, J & Co. I'm looking forward to whether it's just a cease and desist or if they'd like a little something performative. Cause that's what these guys are all about. ❤️

[ShadowKnight2]

2 hours ago, buttersister said:

I think John mentioned--and this is also my opinion from what I've read/seen--that the protests are over the method Macron used (let's call it non-democratic).

Which I also mentioned in my OP.

[swanpride]

Frankly, the French ALWAYS protest that way, and because they do, French protesters setting things of fire only causes other European's to shrug. Meanwhile there are also strikes in Germany (in this case they demand higher wages to deal with inflation), but the fight here is much quieter, and we currently have "Easter peace". I have a hard time to really judge either protest, though. The only thing I know is that there is a difference between the official retirement age in France and the age at which people actually retire. Hence it is really hard to gauge if the protests are over the top or an attempt to stop reforms which might undermine the social system too much. 

 

Regarding solitary confinement: For one, they are considered torture for a reason and two, the excuse to control violent inmates are BS, considering that there are prisons all over the world in which prisoners have way more rights but way lower rates of violence in prison. 

 

Otherwise: I can understand the desire of Disney to keep control of the Mouse. But the effect those attempts have in general are devastating. 

[SnideAsides]

I wonder if the show is (probably falsely) thinking their "this is so obviously a parody that it's not legally actionable" excuse from the Eat Shit Bob stuff will work again here.

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, SnideAsides said:

I wonder if the show is (probably falsely) thinking their "this is so obviously a parody that it's not legally actionable" excuse from the Eat Shit Bob stuff will work again here.

Not to get too pedantic, but it's not an "excuse". It's a defense. Or a doctrine. And I'm sure that the lawyers went over and approved everything just like other times shows have satarized the mouse to be sure it was clearly parody/commentary. And like South Park and others the lawyers will probably hold off unless and until they can come at them sideways like claiming their musical number is derivative and not fair use.

Edited April 4, 2023 by wknt3
Revised and expanded my remarks

[possibilities]

Forcing people into solitary, moreover without even access to a radio or books or ANYTHING to do, and for long periods of time, and when it's clearly known to be torture that causes them to become even more unbalanced, is pure sadism. It speaks badly of not only the people doing it, but also the rest of society, that this is even a debate. 

[swanpride]

A society is only as civilised as its prisons...

[Lantern7]

Brutal episode about solitary confinement. I'm not sure staking a claim to the "Steamboat Willie" version of Mickey Mouse took the edge off. What were his first two catchphrases? I couldn't make those out.

The stuff with Sen. Franken was funny, mostly because Al wasn't actively trying to be funny . . . which is funny, since his rep was being a comedy writer. Seriously, though, John brought up an interesting topic. I had no idea that the original version of solitary was for religious reflection, hence the word "penitentiary." Near fact, even if John is right that it would be a red flag to pop up during a date.

Isiah Carey FTW. And I'm sure I know the definition of "Splenda Daddy," but I feel like it should be laid out for me.

I still think we should get a warning when Tucker Carlson shows up. Two to three seconds isn't enough time to prepare for his voice and face.

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I had no idea that the original version of solitary was for religious reflection

I didn't either. I thought that was really interesting. I wish he'd said how long they thought it should last, and whether they tried it and found it terrible. Were they leaving people in solitary for YEARS?? Are we talking about an hour of "time out" or are we talking about prolonged sentences? And what did they think about it once they tried it?

I guess that's not the point with regard to current public policy, but I'm really curious. I had a Quaker roommate who told me her Meeting stopped telling the story of the crucifixion because someone objected that it was too violent and was especially bad for children, and every other Quaker institution I'm familiar with (they call themselves Friends, not Quakers, btw), is devoted to non-violence, so it's hard for me to just take it that they were torturing people and not want a follow up!

11 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

I still think we should get a warning when Tucker Carlson shows up. Two to three seconds isn't enough time to prepare for his voice and face.

HA !! I heartily support this proposal!!

[possibilities]

Oh hey. I looked it up. The Friends say they did not invent solitary, though they did promote it as an alternative to the death penalty and other gruesome practices that were in use at the time. They also say they abandoned it after a few years.

https://www.fcnl.org/updates/2016-09/solitary-confinement-and-quakers

Edited April 10, 2023 by possibilities

[JustHereForFood]

On 4/3/2023 at 3:46 PM, ShadowKnight2 said:

Sorry. While Emmanuel Macron acted all arrogantly ham fisted over attempting to raise France's retirement age from 62 to 64, the violent reactions to it were over the top and counterproductive. At 64, that's still earlier than the retirement age here. All it will do is paint the protesters as a violent mob of crybabies. Look at how groups of marginalized people or those wanting gun control are being attacked for much less reactions. Busting up windows and setting cars on fire is not how you protest raising the retirement age by a couple of years.

Amen.

Yes, there is a reason why people say stuff like "The French are protesting? Must be Tuesday.", but this is way over the line.

Also, it sucks but it's inevitable to raise the retirement age, because people live longer and longer. Who's gonna pay for the retirement incomes? Funny thing is, in the photos from protests that I've seen, it was mostly young people, not people who will be affected by the change. I wonder how many are just angry at the government for other stuff and use this as an opportunity.