S08.E14: Trial and Error

[Demented Daisy]

Kevin has found out that in order to close the gates of Hell, the person needs to accomplish three tasks. The first, is to kill a Hellhound.

 

 

The good: Hipster Sam and Dean.

 

The bad:  Hellhound goo is black.  How many monsters have oozed black?  They couldn't have come up with anything better?

 

The ugly:  Kevin is still living on the boat.  Even though they have the Lair o' Letters now.  No good reason Kevin couldn't be locked up in some deep, dark recess of the bunker, only brought out when needed.  But, dammit, that's downright logical and this season was seriously lacking in logic.

[DittyDotDot]

I think I would have liked this episode better if it weren't for the Dallas Family Reunion. I'm also not too fond of their treatment of Kevin here, but that annoys me more later. Wanted to like this one, just don't in the end.

[DittyDotDot]

I stand by my statements above, but I now remember another reason this episode just doesn't do it for me--I still don't understand why they didn't find a way for both boys to be involved in doing the Trials. I'm bi-bro, so it's not like I think Dean was shafted or anything, but feel like story-wise I think it makes more sense both needed to do the big sacrifice in-order to complete the task. I mean, I feel like they've both been integral and important to the previous quests, but this one was the first time they've ever been on offense and it was personal for both of them, so I wish they had found a way to have them both handling the ball. Another perfect opportunity squandered. Sigh.

 

Still think the treatment of Kevin by the boys is extremely shitty, but I do enjoy the montage scene at the beginning with Kevin. Otherwise, there's really not much here that holds my attention. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think what this episode is missing is Crowley.

[Goldmoon]

Both boys seemed out of character in not caring about Kevin's welfare.  He clearly needed help and Dean's sports analogy that they were too close to stop sounded too heartless.  Kevin has a role to play, but he's a young kid and wasn't raised to be soldiers like Dean and to some extent, Sam.  Dean used to be more sympathetic toward innocents. 

 

The characters on the ranch were somehow both bland and irritating.  I figured it would be the chica who'd sold her soul.  Hated that Dean called himself a grunt and Sam the brains.  Sam has been very smart and very helpful to the mission, but Dean is the tactician a lot of the time.  His self-loathing is so unrealistic it is starting to bug.  Oh, and NOW they figure out how to see hellhounds? Why didn't they find this info before?

[AwesomO4000]

His self-loathing is so unrealistic it is starting to bug.

 

I commented on this somewhere - potentially in the Dean thread - but I agree with you. By the time we got to Dean remembering what happened with Castiel wrong so that he could blame it on himself, I had become tired of Dean's self-loathing in this season. What they did with Sam's character in the beginning didn't help - i.e. having him not look for Dean to make Dean feel unloved / unimportant / whatever the goal was - but by this time in the season I was just over the lack of self-esteem despite all of that. If Dean couldn't feel good about himself after learning the truth about Castiel, knowing he had the strength to fight through purgatory to get to Cas, and accomplishing all he had previously in saving the world, what exactly is going to convince him out of his self-loathing? At this point in the season, I was coming up blank.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

• I really liked the female ranch hand in this one.  And I was sure surprised - I thought all the rest of the family had definitely made deals!  
• The dysfunctional family sniping at the dinner table was kind of funny.  Auto-tune does cover a lot of vocal sins.
• Sam seemed strangely bitchy at first about Dean and his room.  But then after Dean left, he smiled like he was happy for Dean. So, I'm not sure what to think about that.  I do like that he went back for that awesome homemade burger and took it with him though.  
• I'm assuming Dean's got an Amazon Prime account and had that memory foam mattress and mini fridge sent on 2-day delivery.   Unless he strapped the mattress to Baby's roof...
• Poor Kevin.  He did not look good.  I get what he's trying to do though.  Get 'er done so he can go home.  Sad that he doesn't realize yet that he can never really go home again.  Did Sam see himself when looking at Kevin?
• It really bugged me that Dean was in such a a rush to kill a hellhound that he was willing to make a deal though.  What was the hurry?  Kevin didn't even have the rest of his half of the tablet translated.  A  few days to look for someone else who'd made a deal wouldn't have made a difference.
• But what really bugged me was Dean's speech about how he wants Sam to have a life - a wife and kids and grandkids.  When, after the whole first half of the season, it was all "you didn't look for me because of a girl".  Sneer.  Well, you see, Dean, it usually takes a girl for a man to have a wife and kids and grandkids; at least in the traditional sense.  So WTF is with the change of heart?
• Best part though was Sam telling Dean he is a genius.  Because he is.  I wish he'd remember it more often.
• I call foul (haha - get it?  It would be foul too) on Sam being drenched with hellhound blood and then standing there in a dry black tie-dyed looking t-shirt.  That would have had to be gross.  I'm sure it would be wet and plastered to his body still or he would have taken off the shirt.

[DittyDotDot]

4 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I call foul (haha - get it?  It would be foul too) on Sam being drenched with hellhound blood and then standing there in a dry black tie-dyed looking t-shirt.  That would have had to be gross.  I'm sure it would be wet and plastered to his body still or he would have taken off the shirt.

Now that you mention it...should they be able to see hellhound blood? 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

4 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Now that you mention it...should they be able to see hellhound blood? 

Ooh!  Good question!  They weren't wearing the glasses at this point.  In the past - there was that ep where a hellhound was killed but I can't remember which one - were they able to see the blood then?  If not, then continuity error.

I also think it would have (should have) smelled really bad.  C'mon - hellhounds gotta stink...

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Ooh!  Good question!  They weren't wearing the glasses at this point.  In the past - there was that ep where a hellhound was killed but I can't remember which one - were they able to see the blood then?  If not, then continuity error.

I also think it would have (should have) smelled really bad.  C'mon - hellhounds gotta stink...

I can't recall. I'm currently watching S5 and the dog fight in The Devil You Know didn't produce any visible blood. I can't remember, did Dean shoot a hellhound with the Colt in Abandon All Hope? And, Caged Heat had Meg holding them off with an angel blade, but can't remember if we actually saw her kill one or not. Hmmm?

Not that it matters, really, just something that popped into my head.

As to the smell, I too would think they'd stink!  At the very least, they must have some serious doggy breath considering the face Ellen gave when one breathed on her. ;)

Quote

It really bugged me that Dean was in such a a rush to kill a hellhound that he was willing to make a deal though.  What was the hurry?  Kevin didn't even have the rest of his half of the tablet translated.  A  few days to look for someone else who'd made a deal wouldn't have made a difference.

Sorry, I started to comment on this in the wrong thread...back to the not learning and your comment above about Dean's rush to do this first trial without all the information: They don't even know what shutting the gates of Hell actually will mean for the world. I get why Dean wants to do it so bad--it's nice to be on offense and feels good to dole out some payback and get a big win at the same time--but will it feel so good if you create a bigger problem down the road? Nothing comes without a price, might want to see if you're overpaying before you actually buy it...just sayin'.

Edited July 1, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

My head!canon is that Dean's PTSD , the split with Benny, the betrayal by Sam (in Dean's view) stuff with Cas, Bobby's death all left him feeling like "Fuck it. If we have a chance to end everything, close the gates of Hell, etc that he will be done with fighting and if he dies in the process, so be it. "

So I don't think it was necessarily rushing headlong but IMO for Dean, just being done with it all.

I wind up hating this episode because they spent quite a bit of time setting up that Dean would be the right person to do the trials but NOPE in the final moments they switch it all over to Sam. Man that pissed me off so much. Grrrr. At least it wasn't 2.5 seasons of set up thrown away for fucking Adam. Yes I reallly dislike Adam. He did fuck all for the brothers and didn't care if the brothers lived or die.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I wind up hating this episode because they spent quite a bit of time setting up that Dean would be the right person to do the trials but NOPE in the final moments they switch it all over to Sam. Man that pissed me off so much. Grrrr.

Taking to the all episodes thread.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 7/1/2016 at 1:53 PM, catrox14 said:

My head!canon is that Dean's PTSD , the split with Benny, the betrayal by Sam (in Dean's view) stuff with Cas, Bobby's death all left him feeling like "Fuck it. If we have a chance to end everything, close the gates of Hell, etc that he will be done with fighting and if he dies in the process, so be it. "

So I don't think it was necessarily rushing headlong but IMO for Dean, just being done with it all.

I can't figure out when both of them SHOULDN'T have PTSD, to be honest...  But that goes back to the consequences and how Hell should have had a long lasting effect on them both, but after a couple episodes, it apparently didn't...

Actually, when I originally made the comment about why was Dean's rush to kill a hell hound - I was just wondering why he couldn't wait a day or two to find someone else who'd made a deal (there are apparently lots of idiots out there that do) and then lie in wait for the hell hound to show up because that seemed like a more sure and safer bet than calling a crossroads demon.  But all the rest works too.  :)  

[Dobian]

I liked the episode but had one big problem with it.  It was based on the fact that Crowley was making false deals with these people where he wasn't informing them of the terms.  The goes *entirely* against Crowley's character.  In fact, he killed a demon in one episode for pulling a similar stunt.  Say what you will about Crowley, but he follows the rules of his profession, demon rules be they may.  And no, I don't think Crowley suddenly changed his ways in the last ten years when he has been doing this sort of thing for hundreds of years.

[DittyDotDot]

52 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I liked the episode but had one big problem with it.  It was based on the fact that Crowley was making false deals with these people where he wasn't informing them of the terms.  The goes *entirely* against Crowley's character.  In fact, he killed a demon in one episode for pulling a similar stunt.  Say what you will about Crowley, but he follows the rules of his profession, demon rules be they may.  And no, I don't think Crowley suddenly changed his ways in the last ten years when he has been doing this sort of thing for hundreds of years.

I don't think Crowley was making "false" deals. The deal usually is they have 10 years, unless they die before the time is up. The episode where he admonished his minion, the demon created a loophole by having the other demon create "accidents" so he could collect the souls early.  Here, Crowley told them they had 10 years and then he'd collect. He may not have told them what that meant, but I think they got the impression it wouldn't be something good.

Once a deal is made, Crowley sticks to it, but he may also have hidden something in the contract and I think he figures its a buyer-beware sort of thing. But, that's  Crowley in a nutshell, IMO. Like how he kept Bobby's soul even after Bobby held up his end of the bargain in S5. Or how he told Dean only what Dean needed to know when they went after the demon who worked for Pestilence. "That's what you get for working with a demon", ya know. ;)

Edited July 25, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think Crowley was making "false" deals. The deal usually is they have 10 years, unless they die before the time is up.

Except they stated that they were not told about the ten years when he made the deal with them  So it was a dishonest deal, and Crowley's MO on this show is that he finds that sort of thing reprehensible.  He clearly states the terms of the deal when he makes one.  Sure, he might bury things in the fine print and downplay or obfuscate the consequences of a deal, but the basic terms he's pretty clear about, like the ten year clause.  He wouldn't outright omit it.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Dobian

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

Except they stated that they were not told about the ten years when he made the deal with them  So it was a dishonest deal, and Crowley's MO on this show is that he finds that sort of thing reprehensible.  He clearly states the terms of the deal when he makes one.

I thought they all knew about the ten years. Ellie certainly knew, that's why she was "dancing in the dark", so to speak...I thought.  And the younger girl seemed to know something was coming for her...again, I thought? I guess I didn't realize anyone wasn't aware of the ten years, but it's been a while since I've watched this one.

I wouldn't say Crowley clearly states the terms of the deal, but tells them enough to fulfill his contractual obligations. Like with Bobby, the small print said he only had to "try to give his soul back" and Bobby certainly wasn't aware of that, but was clearly stated in the contract. He also added language to Bobby's deal to give him the use of his legs back. Crowley definitely sticks to a deal once it's struck, but that doesn't mean there aren't things in the contract he can twist to his own advantage if he so desires. But, he doesn't lie to anyone, it's always there in the contract, just figures it's their fault if they didn't read the fine print. Or, that's always been my take on Crowley, anyway.

Edited July 25, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Dobian]

6 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

I thought they all knew about the ten years. Ellie certainly knew, that's why she was "dancing in the dark", so to speak...I thought.  And the younger girl seemed to know something was coming for her...again, I thought? I guess I didn't realize anyone wasn't aware of the ten years, but it's been a while since I've watched this one.

I wouldn't say Crowley clearly states the terms of the deal, but tells them enough to fulfill his contractual obligations.

I would have to re-watch that scene where one of them said they had no idea about the ten years, and it seems none of them did.  That really struck me as odd, and out of character for the show based on how it has always represented these deals.  Maybe I misheard it or it was just poorly written dialogue.  One thing this show has been very consistent on is that in all these Crossroads kind of deals, they are always oral contracts and the "give up your soul in ten years" is always explicitly stated.  Even the demon who did the loophole thing gave the ten year terms.  Crowley is, in D&D terms, lawful evil.  So if he made such a deal in a written contract, he might bury the ten year clause in fine print near the bottom, or obscure it in a bunch of legalese, but make no mistake, it would be in there.  He would never violate his own contract.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Dobian

[DittyDotDot]

46 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I would have to re-watch that scene where one of them said they had no idea about the ten years, and it seems none of them did.  That really struck me as odd, and out of character for the show based how it has always represented these deals.  Maybe I misheard it or it was just poorly written dialogue.  One thing this show has been very consistent on is that in all these Crossroads kind of deals, they are always oral contracts and the "give up your soul in ten years" is always explicitly stated.  Even the demon who did the loophole thing gave the ten year terms.  Crowley is, in D&D terms, lawful evil.  So if he made such a deal in a written contract, he might bury the ten year clause in fine print near the bottom, or obscure it in a bunch of legalese, but make no mistake, it would be in there.  He would never violate his own contract.

Like I said, it's been a while since I watched it , so maybe they didn't know it. In the end, though, only three of them made deals, right? The guy who wanted the older sister to love him and summoned Crowley; the younger sister who asked for them to get rich; and Ellie who asked for her mom to be healed. The rest of them didn't know about the deals at all, right?

I just thought they did know about the deadline for some reason, especially once they started hearing the hellhounds and having the hallucinations.

Except for the guy who summoned Crowley in the first place, I don't think anyone took the deals too seriously at first, though. Just figured Crowley was crazy, but then they got what they asked for and realized Crowley was the real deal. I think that's the kind of "trick" to these deals. Most people don't really think it's for real until after they seal the deal and get what they asked for. They kinda sell their soul as an almost joke. And with the contracts being ten years, they kinda forget they'll have to pay a price eventually until they hear the hellhounds and such.

Edited July 25, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Dobian]

I really just chalk it up to sloppy writing.  They could have avoided the potentially character-breaking confusion by just having one of them say, "Wow, I thought Crowley was just nuts or joking around when he said I had to give my soul up in ten years."  And this is just the family.  The ranch hand girl was very aware about the ten years and knew her time was up, which is why she wanted that one night with Dean.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Dobian

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, poor Kevin! Kevin's story is so much harder to watch in hindsight, he really never had a chance, did he? 

On 7/25/2016 at 4:26 PM, Dobian said:

I really just chalk it up to sloppy writing.  They could have avoided the potentially character-breaking confusion by just having one of them say, "Wow, I thought Crowley was just nuts or joking around when he said I had to give my soul up in ten years."  And this is just the family.  The ranch hand girl was very aware about the ten years and knew her time was up, which is why she wanted that one night with Dean.

Actually, Ellie (the ranch hand) does say that she didn't think it was real until her mom got better, but she also said she'd do the same thing again now that she does know it's real. 

Now that I've gotten here on my rewatch and refreshed my memory I definitely think the three who made the deals knew of the timeline, they just didn't take it all that seriously. It's hard to tell with Carl because we barely saw much of him, but since he was the one to summon Crowley and Ellie says she found him drunk a few years back and he was spouting on about him summoning Crowley, I think he was aware but figured the reward was worth it. And, I definitely got the impression Margot knew something was coming for her and that's why she went out in the woods to hunt the thing that killed Carl. Almost like she thought if she could kill it, it couldn't kill her. And we know that Ellie knew.

The rest of the family didn't make deals though, they just benefited from Margot's deal to make them all rich. They weren't even aware that Crowley was making deals. So yeah, I don't think they were "false" deals. Doesn't make them entirely honest, though, either. 

Edited September 5, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Hanahope]

So I didn't get what deal the younger daughter made. And why didn't Sam and Dean think she made the oil deal?  Why did they think there was still a third person who made a deal?

 And wierd to make a deal to make someone else rich just so you could and your mom could keep working for them.  

Agreed that Deans whole speech about Sam getting out and having kids seemed a bit hypocritical when he made Sam feel so bad about Amelia.

[DittyDotDot]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I didn't get what deal the younger daughter made. And why didn't Sam and Dean think she made the oil deal?  Why did they think there was still a third person who made a deal?

It's been a while since I watched this one, and it's one of those S8 episodes that I kinda try to pretend didn't happen--other than the beginning with Kevin, that is--but I think it came down to knowing that Crowley had been there making deals and figured there might be more deals that Crowley made too. Although, was the hellhound still making noise, too? 

Yeah, I can't remember clearly. Sorry, that's all I got.

[bettername2come]

I love Domestic Dean, with his memory foam, and his nesting and his burgers. Hee, Sam took the burger to go. When Dean tells you to eat a salad, you know you've got problems. Aw, Kevin and Dean hug. I'm going to continue my "poor Kevin" refrain. That Kevin montage was harsh. Entertaining, but harsh. He deserves so much better than he gets. Was that a countrified version of "Dean's Dirty Organ"? I like Ellie. I like Sam and Dean trying to get Kevin to slow down and take care of himself, although I do wish they'd set him up at the bunker. I love that Sam and Dean had glasses on hand already, even though we've never once seen them wearing them in their long, storied history of disguises. I always think it's fun when Sam and Dean look like the bad guys with taking hostages. I gasped out loud when Ellie saw the hallucination of Dean with a demonic face. Good bonding moments between the boys trying to save each other and I love Sam having faith in Dean. This is one of the few episodes that I really watched the first time around and remembered about season eight, so I used to get confused about the anti-Sammy talk in regard to season eight since I had basically blocked out the Amelia/Purgatory content from my brain. 

On 8/5/2017 at 0:53 PM, Hanahope said:

So I didn't get what deal the younger daughter made. And why didn't Sam and Dean think she made the oil deal?  Why did they think there was still a third person who made a deal?

Based on daughter saying "they'd be happy if they were rich" I think she made a deal for family wealth which led to the oil, but because of the trophy wife and country singer stuff, they thought their was another deal out there since the hellhound was still lurking.

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Based on daughter saying "they'd be happy if they were rich" I think she made a deal for family wealth which led to the oil, but because of the trophy wife and country singer stuff, they thought their was another deal out there since the hellhound was still lurking.

I kind of didn't get the whole thing, either.  Sam and Dean, or at least SAm, were absolutely convinced, that there was a nother deal made?  Why?  And, Alice(?) did apparently hear the hell hound and feel the need to escape.  That's why she slipped her cuff off (because apparently that's just a skill everyone has) and Sam had to go after her.  So, I always figured Margie sold her soul to lose weight, and Alice sold her soul for the oil.  And, the two craziest family members apparently didn't sell their souls.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I kind of didn't get the whole thing, either.  Sam and Dean, or at least SAm, were absolutely convinced, that there was a nother deal made?  Why? 

I thought it was just because they hadn't found out who had made the deal for the oil yet? Carl had summoned Crowley for love, not money, so there must have been someone else who made the deal for the oil. It wasn't until after they handcuffed the family inside did they learn that Margot made the deal for the oil.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, Alice(?) did apparently hear the hell hound and feel the need to escape.  That's why she slipped her cuff off (because apparently that's just a skill everyone has) and Sam had to go after her.  So, I always figured Margie sold her soul to lose weight, and Alice sold her soul for the oil.  And, the two craziest family members apparently didn't sell their souls.

I thought Alice was just scared because these crazy men with a guns had handcuffed them in their house and started talking about demons and hellhounds and seemed rather threatening? I think I'd try to run away from them too, given the same circumstances.

I think the only deals made were:

• Carl, who summoned Crowley and sold his soul for "love"
• Margot, who figured they'd all be happy if they were rich, sold her soul for the oil
• And, Ellie who made the deal for her mom.

So, they were right that another deal had been made, it just wasn't straightforward who made any of the deals; it was all McGuffins and misdirect, IMO. The most likely suspects who appeared to have benefited the most didn't make any deals while the unlikely suspects who didn't appear to have gotten anything, were the ones who actually made the deals. I think it was supposed to be a counterbalance to Dean's overconfidence earlier when he said it would be "easy."

Edited August 10, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Wayward Son]

On 06/01/2015 at 1:40 PM, DittyDotDot said:

I stand by my statements above, but I now remember another reason this episode just doesn't do it for me--I still don't understand why they didn't find a way for both boys to be involved in doing the Trials. I'm bi-bro, so it's not like I think Dean was shafted or anything, but feel like story-wise I think it makes more sense both needed to do the big sacrifice in-order to complete the task. I mean, I feel like they've both been integral and important to the previous quests, but this one was the first time they've ever been on offense and it was personal for both of them, so I wish they had found a way to have them both handling the ball. Another perfect opportunity squandered. Sigh.

IMO the writers may have felt they needed to ‘redeem’ Sam from the backlash he received from fandom as a result of his decision to not look for Dean and Kevin and quit the hunting life. They were probably hoping that getting to see Sam reaffirm his commitment to the world of hunting and try his best to do right by Dean through showing him “the light at the end of the tunnel” would be enough for the audience to begin the process of forgiving Sam.

 

On 25/07/2016 at 6:55 PM, DittyDotDot said:

I thought they all knew about the ten years. Ellie certainly knew, that's why she was "dancing in the dark", so to speak...I thought.  And the younger girl seemed to know something was coming for her...again, I thought? I guess I didn't realize anyone wasn't aware of the ten years, but it's been a while since I've watched this one.

Ellie didn't know the specifics of the deal. During her conversation with Dean she tells him she knew that her soul was destined for hell upon her death, but she didn’t know about hellhounds or the 10 year timelimit. What she did know though was that Carl had been the one to summon Crowley (he confessed it one night while drunk) and made a deal with him. When Carl died she had enough intelligence to realise it must have been a fallout of his deal and therefore came to the conclusion it was coming after her next.

 

On 05/08/2017 at 5:53 PM, Hanahope said:

So I didn't get what deal the younger daughter made. And why didn't Sam and Dean think she made the oil deal?  Why did they think there was still a third person who made a deal?

 And wierd to make a deal to make someone else rich just so you could and your mom could keep working for them.  

There’s a deleted scene included with the blu ray, which shows us the hellbounds growls and continued presence alerted the boys to the fact there was another victim to be collected. That is why they were so insistent on another deal. 

In regards to your other quoted point it wasn’t Ellie who made the deal to make them rich. As @DittyDotDot highlights the deals from this episode were

 

On 10/08/2017 at 10:13 PM, DittyDotDot said:

• Carl, who summoned Crowley and sold his soul for "love"
• Margot, who figured they'd all be happy if they were rich, sold her soul for the oil
• And, Ellie who made the deal for her mom.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

There’s a deleted scene included with the blu ray, which shows us the hellbounds growls and continued presence alerted the boys to the fact there was another victim to be collected. That is why they were so insistent on another deal. 

That's interesting; I would have made sense for them to leave this scene in the actual episode.

[Catfi9ht]

Just rewatched this episode (which I had no memory of other than Sam killing the hellhound) and my main comment is this end game is a repeat of past seasons especially the bickering back and forth between Sam and Dean.

Dean: "I'm going to sacrifice myself so you can have a normal life!"

Sam: "You just think I'll screw it up! You don't trust me!"

How about some character growth show writers? How about Sam and Dean using the past 7 years to trust each and help each other through something together? 

I really admire the stamina and tolerance you all have. I'm starting to remember why I stopped watching after this season originally.

[Iju]

On 7/3/2016 at 8:37 PM, Runswithscissors said:

I can't figure out when both of them SHOULDN'T have PTSD, to be honest...  But that goes back to the consequences and how Hell should have had a long lasting effect on them both, but after a couple episodes, it apparently didn't...

 

in all fairness they should have had PTSD way back in their childhood. fighting all those monsters and seeing your brother and/or father almost die by them...pretty spooky stuff. also it's hard to write in with a show as continuous as this. so i'm fine with no or hardly any PTSD, what i'm not fine with is that they don't even give the boys any cool looking scars at least. 

my mother was all surprised to see dean making food for himself and sam, doing the grilling. that's because she didn't see the episode with him and the djinn. as much as the show makes sam want the normal, "homey" life, it's really dean who is way more domestic than sam, something i had predicted before i saw the episode. she still hasn't seen it, but whatever. her loss.

On 4/16/2018 at 2:26 PM, Catfi9ht said:

How about some character growth show writers? How about Sam and Dean using the past 7 years to trust each and help each other through something together? 

 

also this. i'm rather tired of the boys not trusting each other as far as they can see each other.

[The Companion]

On 1/6/2015 at 7:40 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I stand by my statements above, but I now remember another reason this episode just doesn't do it for me--I still don't understand why they didn't find a way for both boys to be involved in doing the Trials. I'm bi-bro, so it's not like I think Dean was shafted or anything, but feel like story-wise I think it makes more sense both needed to do the big sacrifice in-order to complete the task. I mean, I feel like they've both been integral and important to the previous quests, but this one was the first time they've ever been on offense and it was personal for both of them, so I wish they had found a way to have them both handling the ball. Another perfect opportunity squandered. Sigh.

 

I agree. This is another place where it felt like there was unnecessary drama/angst. The entire plot feels super arbitrary (par for the course, really, with this type of quest storyline) and there is this bizarre false urgency. It didn't seem particularly hard to hunt down hellhounds if it seems like Dean is the better person to do this down the road. And now they have magic hellhounds glasses. But more irritatingly, they have set up an unnecessary conflict so we can watch the same conversation again.

On 7/1/2016 at 7:44 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Ooh!  Good question!  They weren't wearing the glasses at this point.  In the past - there was that ep where a hellhound was killed but I can't remember which one - were they able to see the blood then?  If not, then continuity error.

I also think it would have (should have) smelled really bad.  C'mon - hellhounds gotta stink...

I seem to recall Meg stabbing one and stepping over an invisible body in Caged Heat. I don't recall visible blood.

I don't know how smart it is to underrake this process without full details. After all, there is always a price. I did love the nesting and Dean's disappointment about having to sleep in a different bed. I also found it mildly amusing that Dean has been hit on twice in a row by someone with ulterior motives. 

I also don't love that the hellhounds were this unstoppable force and they have slowly been diluted over time.

Nonetheless, this episode was better than several this season. I didn't hate it, I just suspect I will forget it

[Katy M]

22 hours ago, The Companion said:

I don't know how smart it is to underrake this process without full details. After all, there is always a price. I did love the nesting and Dean's disappointment about having to sleep in a different bed. I also found it mildly amusing that Dean has been hit on twice in a row by someone with ulterior motives. 

Yes. Thank you.  Did they consider that they may be consigning vengeful spirtis to walk the earth through eternity. Maybe they'll get rid of demons but then be stuck with every single non-heaven bound ghost forever.  Also, do they know that the doors closing will suck in any demons already out.  They may be rending exorcisms moot.  Sure, they have a demon killing knife, but no other hunter (at least that I know of) does.  This really ranks up there with stupid decisions in my book.  Right up there will drinking demon blood.

 

22 hours ago, The Companion said:

I also don't love that the hellhounds were this unstoppable force and they have slowly been diluted over time.

It's the same with demons and angels and vampires and pretty much everything.  I think the only thing that has gotten more powerful is werewolves with the addition of the purebloods.

[The Companion]

8 hours ago, Katy M said:

Yes. Thank you.  Did they consider that they may be consigning vengeful spirtis to walk the earth through eternity. Maybe they'll get rid of demons but then be stuck with every single non-heaven bound ghost forever.  Also, do they know that the doors closing will suck in any demons already out.  They may be rending exorcisms moot.  Sure, they have a demon killing knife, but no other hunter (at least that I know of) does.  This really ranks up there with stupid decisions in my book.  Right up there will drinking demon blood.

 

It's the same with demons and angels and vampires and pretty much everything.  I think the only thing that has gotten more powerful is werewolves with the addition of the purebloods.

Exactly! Plus it could lead to an imbalance with the angels, decimated as they are. As I noted during the Lucifer plot, I am not sure we would like paradise, as they define it. At the very least, perhaps the difficulty of closing the gates should be a giant honking red flag. At least wait for a full translation.

 

It is the nature of these shows to make the villains more killable and less killable for plot reasons (see also, Doctor Who) and they typically get less scary with each appearance. I think this is just jarring because the hellhounds killed off Bela, Jo and Ellen plus they killed Dean. Bela, in particular, was very focused on them and had the means to track down whatever she needed.