Lady Edith: Sex and the Single Girl

[SusanSunflower]

Actually, I'm not sure what we know about the sojourn in Switzerland, or I've forgotten.  

Was there a birth certificate? Was Marigold born in a hospital, duly registered to Edith as mother so that she could be adopted by the Swiss couple from Edith? 

Fellows tends to be both lazy and sloppy when it expedites his story-writing. See payments for Gregson's wife's upkeep and care, "the magazine" ... etc. 

Rosamund can "testify" and the Swiss can testify ... but I suspect Fellowes believes that the Drewes will accept this as part of their lowly status -- Who knows what Edith's arrangement with them is or what Mr. Drewe is doing with the monthly payments ... There are payments aren't there?  So much money and "aristocracy" on one side, I expect Fellowes thinks the details don't matter. Did anyone actually talk about the Swiss couple legally "relinquishing" or did they accept Edith walking out with the baby? 

Edited February 4, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Avaleigh]

From the S5.E6 Thread:

 

From reading through this thread, it seems that the opinion that the family was not insensitive to Edith's reaction at the news of Michael's murder boils down to a few points, so I'd like to address them one at a time: (I'm skipping Mary and referring only to the rest of them.)

 

#1 "Edith's family wasn't insensitive to her grief because they didn't know the extent of her relationship." I have to disagree for two reasons. First, if one family member sees another taking bad news harder than expected, I don't think a loving family member's reaction would be, "I don't understand why she is this upset, therefore she is wrong in being this upset," but rather, "I don't understand why she is this upset, maybe she was closer to the person than I thought."

 

I thought that was exactly the reaction that Robert had. That's when he's starts to guess that they "probably loved each other". He doesn't know for sure because Edith doesn't say but he supposes. 

 

Second, the family did know something about Michael: they knew that, at a minimum, he was an employer with whom Edith enjoyed working, and that she liked him enough to see him outside of work, including a few visits at Shrimpy and Susan's and at Downton Abbey. Not to mention that they also discovered that he had left his newspaper to her. Sure, she they didn't know the whole story, but they did know enough to understand that this would affect her deeply.

 

There's still a huge difference to understanding that Edith has lost a man who was interested in her vs. having lost the father of her child and the man she'd intended on marrying. As far as the family knew he wasn't even so much as a fiancee. In families like these I think we can sometimes forget that formalities like this were important. Again, it would be very different if the family were in possession of all of the facts.

#2 "Edith shuts her family out, therefore they can't be more kind to her." I disagree with this, because I find the reverse to be true: Edith's family has been shutting her out (not always, but in significant ways) since season one, long before she ever met Michael, and also while she was seeing him socially.
A few examples:
Cora: She is the main person responsible for helping her daughters to find good marriage partners. In the two seasons that Mary was unattached (in season two she had Richard, in season 3 she was married to Matthew, and in season 5 she has been continuing a relationship started in season 4) five men were brought to Downton as partners for Mary: the duke, Matthew (brought for other reasons,too, but in several episodes was definitely intended by Cora and others for Mary), Evelyn. Anthony, and Tony. Despite Edith never being married, no man was ever brought to Downton for her.

 

The Duke was looking for a fortune and so thought that Mary as the eldest would be his best bet. Mary was the one who had formed a friendship and correspondence with Evelyn so Evelyn's presence was due to Mary and wasn't due to any help from her parents. Matthew was not brought in for Mary and I think we can at least agree that Mary won Matthew's initial interest on her own without any help from her parents. Anthony was brought in for Mary and that same evening Cora was perfectly happy to see Edith attending to Anthony instead. Both Robert and Cora were later fine with s1 Anthony for Edith. It's also important to remember that Cora became proactive in trying to find Mary a husband because of the Pamuk situation. In any case Cora's match making efforts on Mary's behalf were inviting Anthony Strallan to dinner. She really wasn't going above and beyond here. Robert and Cora seemed content to let their daughters choose for themselves rather than matching them up and I don't see that as a bad thing when I consider someone like Rose's mother.

 

Her parents, either by overlooking her (Cora) or alternating between overlooking her and noticing her only long enough to criticize her (Robert) have consistenly given her indication that she is not important. So I don't think it's plausible that she would confide in them.

 

 

I don't see Edith as being overlooked by her parents. I guess you can go back to season 1 for the reference that Robert made but I still don't think it applies to Cora when there are examples from every season of her taking interest in Edith's life in a positive way. I also disagree that Edith receives more criticism from Robert than Mary does. Since season 1 I've seen Robert criticize Mary and he's done it to her in front of Edith as well. As far as confiding in her parents, I think she's doing Cora a disservice based on everything we've seen on the show. She also knows that her mother helped Mary with Pamuk so it isn't as though Cora doesn't have a history of being helpful during a scandal. 
 

#3 "Edith was wrong to expect that the family should mourn Michael like they mourned Matthew." I don't think she expected them to do anything of the sort: there's a huge difference between expecting the family to go into formal mourning and expecting them to be respectful of her grief by toning down things for a few days. I don't think she was out of line for being hurt at the fuss they made over Mary's hair, and their poor timing of planning a jolly outing. She wasn't asking them for even 5% of what was done after Matthew's death, and the consideration they gave her was less than what they gave to Sybil when she learned of the war death of a mere acquaintance.

 

 

I don't think that anyone is saying that Edith is expecting the family to mourn Michael like they mourned Matthew. I've personally said that I think that Edith should cut her family some slack since they didn't know Gregson well and we have a character deliberately confirm this for Edith. Even the servants recognize why the family aren't in mourning and I'm not talking about official mourning but in mourning like behavior. They hardly knew him and Edith downplayed the relationship because she didn't want to get caught. Edith has to take some responsibility for her behavior because there are consequences for things like this. As for Sybil's war acquaintance I would say that people were being extra sensitive in general over any war loss because the war was something that was so painful for the entire country. 
 

#4 "Even the nice/open-minded people disagreed with Edith." If this were a reality program, I might agree that there was more to the story if the nice people thought Edith was being unfair. But all these fictional characters are written by the same man. And one of the themes I've noticed since season one is that even people who are nice to everyone else often find Edith repulsive, and even when Edith does something very similar to what someone else has done, she ends up being ridiculed simply because Edith is suppposed to be the object of contempt. (A recent example, of all the people who asked Isobel about the prince, the only one that Isobel snapped at was Edith.)

I'm not saying that Edith hasn't done some bad things in her day, but even when she's the doing the same thing as everyone else (or something that the viewers might consider pretty reasonable), she gets scorned by other characters in a way that is inconsistent with what else the show tells us. The show sometimes makes Edith wrong simply because she's Edith, which I find to be extremely poor and unbelievable writing.

 

 

I don't really know how to respond to this because I don't think that any of the characters on the show think that Edith is repulsive. I even disagree with your Prince example as being a "shut up, Meg" moment for Edith's character. Violet was tired of the ribbing period so she was just trying to shut down the conversation. I didn't think it was anything personal against Edith. I also don't think that Julian Fellowes views Edith as a punching bag but obviously that belongs in the Unpopular Opinions thread.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Avaleigh

[persey]

The key moment in which Edith's personality was revealed in all its revoltingness was when she said she had put her real name on Marigold's birth certificate in case she needed it. What she was saying in that phrase was that despite months to commit to the plan, or any plan, she was going to keep her options open and use others as placeholder parents until she could make up her mind, no matter the cost to them. No matter the devastation she would cause to others, she would sacrifice them to her goal of having everything, and she decided that in advance.

I have no sympathy for Edith. She's got that covered and she has no sympathy for anyone who might be affected by her actions. Mary was right about her all along.

[statsgirl]

There's still a huge difference to understanding that Edith has lost a man who was interested in her vs. having lost the father of her child and the man she'd intended on marrying. As far as the family knew he wasn't even so much as a fiancee. In families like these I think we can sometimes forget that formalities like this were important. Again, it would be very different if the family were in possession of all of the facts.

In a loving family, it shouldn't matter though. As soon as Edith said she was very upset about Gregson's death, they should have respected that.  Mary acted like it was a deliberate imposition on her picnic to have Edith sad.

 

 

The Duke was looking for a fortune and so thought that Mary as the eldest would be his best bet.

 

I know, he's completely delusional. A man who was looking to marry a fortune might marry a sharp-tongued harpy but Mary had no fortune, and why would a man want to tie himself to that all his life?

 

d go with self pitying Shakespearean character as well. I would feel sorry for a person in her circumstances in real life but Edith as depicted generally creates her own problems and then collapses and then doesn't understand why everyone else is so frustrated with her.

She didn't create the circumstance that Mary was spoiled by the family and treated Edith like the red-haired stepdaughter (not Cora but Cora didn't protect her from Robert or Mary either); she didn't create the circumstance that Strallan left her at the altar (Robert and Violet did that) and she didn't kill Gregson. She doesn't even need to do anything for Robert and Mary to be frustrated with her, Mary especially seems to do that just by having Edith exist.    Mary complained that Tom and Rose are her allies, (as if she needed allies) but if she showed any kindness to Edith when Edith asks (e.g. after Sybil died), Edith might be one too.

 

I think Edith is going to miss Tom far more than Mary is because Tom is one of the very few people who is kind to her, but it's Mary who is always whining about Tom leaving.

 

It's too bad Edith returned to Downton because she could have built a good life for herself managing Gregson's publishing concerns without have to beg for crumbs from Robert and Mary.

[Terrafamilia]

Ever since Gregson had Edith sign some assorted power of attorney papers before his sojourn to Germany I've been expecting the other shoe to drop. Namely, he and his business are deeply in debt and Edith is left holding the bag (with the option of him having faked his death).

[ZoloftBlob]

I know, he's completely delusional. A man who was looking to marry a fortune might marry a sharp-tongued harpy but Mary had no fortune, and why would a man want to tie himself to that all his life?

There's no need to twist history. The Duke *thought* that since Patrick died and there was no heir, that Mary *would* have a substantial fortune. As soon as he found out otherwise, he dropped her. And since the Duke was a homosexual, he was marrying purely for money. Frankly, if Edith had been the first born, the Duke would have found Edith as attractive - because he didn't care in the slightest about the girl, he just wanted the money. 

 

She didn't create the circumstance that Mary was spoiled by the family and treated Edith like the red-haired stepdaughter (not Cora but Cora didn't protect her from Robert or Mary either); she didn't create the circumstance that Strallan left her at the altar (Robert and Violet did that) and she didn't kill Gregson.

 

Of course. No one is saying Edith creates ALL of her problems. For example, no, she didn't kill Gregson.

 

However she did knowingly date and sleep with Gregson even after discovering that he was a married man. When the one person in the family that she indirectly told didn't back her play (Matthew telling Gregson he didn't approve) she gets mad and says she *would* have broken it off with Gregson but is now mad at Matthew so the relationship will continue. And it does, and she ends up pregnant. That was Edith taking the wheel and creating her own problem.

 

Edith did not create the birth order problem in her family. I think Edith could have been Sybil's twin in looks and personality and Mary would still be a condescending spoiled bitch because that's who Mary is. (I think Mary's only chance at personal change would have been if Matthew had lived and even then I think Matthew would have been ground down by the family endorsing Mary) With that said, young, foolish, jealous, call it what you like, Edith's letter to the Turkish embassy was frankly the sword blow that severed Mary and Edith's relationship. The only reason Mary wasn't married off to Sir Richard, a possible abuser and all around asshole, is mostly luck. The only reason Mary wasn't ruined was that Matthew is oddly ok with his wife sleeping around.  But that doesn't change the fact that Mary has no reason to trust Edith or help Edith or be kind to Edith because Edith is the one who dropped the A-Bomb on that relationship. If ten years later, Mary isn't over her own sister betraying her and merrily calling her a slut - that's a problem Edith caused.

 

Here's another, non baby related emotionally devastating moment for Edith where we're supposed to feel sorry for her but its a problem she caused. She gets the tractor job. She knows Farmer Drake is married. She flirts and smooches Farmer Drake and then is shocked and devastated that the wife kicks her to the curb.

 

Now Strallan? I completely agree and frankly think it was shitty writing all around.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Ever since Gregson had Edith sign some assorted power of attorney papers before his sojourn to Germany I've been expecting the other shoe to drop. Namely, he and his business are deeply in debt and Edith is left holding the bag (with the option of him having faked his death).

It must have been somewhat non-standard at the time for an unrelated woman with no business experience to sign papers giving her some unspecified power/responsibility.  It felt to me like something was being set up there that then evaporated with the Gregson actor's unavailability.  Why bother with that detail, he could have said nothing at all, or mentioned that an associate was handling things.

[Llywela]

It must have been somewhat non-standard at the time for an unrelated woman with no business experience to sign papers giving her some unspecified power/responsibility.  It felt to me like something was being set up there that then evaporated with the Gregson actor's unavailability.  Why bother with that detail, he could have said nothing at all, or mentioned that an associate was handling things.

Maybe Julian Fellowes has never heard of Chekov's gun and would be astounded to realise that anyone expected anything to come of those papers Edith signed, because he only ever intended for them to give her control of the paper when Gregson died and didn't realise how shady it would come across. Nothing I've seen of his writing convinces me he is any more subtle than that.

[TheGreenKnight]

I think Edith is going to miss Tom far more than Mary is because Tom is one of the very few people who is kind to her, but it's Mary who is always whining about Tom leaving.

 

It's too bad Edith returned to Downton because she could have built a good life for herself managing Gregson's publishing concerns without have to beg for crumbs from Robert and Mary.

I, too, wish Edith had stayed away from Downton, but then she wouldn't be on the show (as much, at least) that way. That said, I think with Marigold in her life, she'll be able to ignore anything her family says/does to her from here on out. Honestly, I'm hoping Tom is still on the show next season for Edith's sake. I liked the way he could see both Mary and Edith fairly, and still be friendly with both. (I'll be honest--I wasn't much of a Tom fan before this season...)

 

I do think this is the first season the show has been "fair," so to speak, in its portrayal of Edith, imo, with Mary's disgusting snipes being acknowledged by the characters and Edith finally reaching her breaking point with the family. My favorite moment was Edith's brief back-and-forth with Violet about what's best for the "family" not lining up with what's best for her (probably because only an episode or so before, Violet made that snide comment to her--"You don't know anything about it."). To be honest, the only members of the family that I would agree never treated her unfairly are Sibyl, Tom, and Cora. I wonder if that comes from all the characters having lived outside the Downton way of life, at one time or another? I loved Cora's reaction to Rosamund and Violet's plots.

 

I did have quite a bit of sympathy for Mrs. Drewe, but I found it difficult to hate Edith during that plotline. I think parental instincts can make a person act more idiotic than love can. Particularly when you throw family interference and societal pressures into the equation.

Edited February 24, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[Tetraneutron]

 

To be honest, the only members of the family that I would agree never treated her unfairly are Sibyl, Tom, and Cora.

Robert, too. He was extraordinarily understanding when he found out the truth about Marigold, and in fact was way nicer to her than he was to Mary about Pamuk. And even Violet and Rosamund were insensitive by 21st century standards, but they weren't unfair. Violet didn't shame her or call her dirty or exclude her from anything. They just kept pointing out (gently) that Edith's idea of bothering the Drewes was unsustainable and would blow up in her face, and that the only way to do what was best for Marigold was a French boarding school. And they didn't insist when Edith refused, and accepted her and Marigold at Downton once she made her decision.

 

And they kind of have a point that NO ONE is talking about how Edith's current plan for Marigold involves everyone in her "adpoted" family lying to her about who she is. I can accept that both Edith and the Drewes provide equally loving homes and stable environments. I can even accept Marigold has no memory of her earlier families and the Drewes never see her again. (Whether that's realistic given Marigold's age is not the point as I don't look to this show for medical accuracy). But still, your mother lying to you about your life has got to mess you up.

[shipperx]

Robert loves Edith and wouldn't consciously hurt her, but that's not at all the same as never treating her unfairly. He sat at a breakfast table and said no one would want her opinions except that she had his name. He laughed at the 'destined to take care of us' inevitable spinster hood and he sabotaged her chance at marriage.

Now, I attribute none of this to malice. Nor do I take any of it to mean that he doesn't love her.

But it doesn't take ill intent to be 'unfair' and it doesn't take an absence of love to allow biases to influence your actions. Robert loves Edith but he's got blind spots and flaws that have led him to say and do things that have harmed Edith's self esteem and influenced a family dynamic that has caused problems for both Edith and Mary. I just don't think he does it with ill intent nor is he conscious of it.

He means well but sometimes he's a donk.

I also think Violet and Rosamund 'meant well' but what it also amounted to was enforcing societal dictate (that is inherently sexist) to pressure Edith into giving up her child by telling her what was 'acceptable' to do. But I cannot think.it was 'best' for Marigold to be shipped to boarding school to prevent scandal. Nor was it to Edith's mental or emotional well being. It was about what conformed to the strictures of what would be 'accepted' when if that had been in a vacuum, removed from those slutshaming societal forces, Edith never would have given up the child in the first place. That's the point of comparisons to the present in the arguments. With out the pressures of scandal and shunning, etc. Edith's entire situation would be different.

A large part of what created the whole 'give up/take back the baby' debacle were the forces of conformity working to convince Edith that she had no real options, that the only 'right' choice was to give yhe baby away. And, with good hearts, Violet and Rosamund were acting as agents of society urging conformity. Honestly to whose actual good was the option of Marigold being sent to boarding school? Certainly not Marigolds nor Edith's.

Edited February 25, 2015 by shipperx

[Tetraneutron]

Compared to Marigold being hated in society for being a bastard? Compared to her being shunned? Compared to the rest of her family starting to resent her for the fact that they're shunned now too? Compared to having to watch George and Sybbie get all sorts of advantages she's perfecxtly aware of but knows she can never have for herself? Of feeling tainted?

 

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. Marigold's with a mother who loves her and can provide for her, and a family that sees her as a grandchild-figure. And she has money, which frankly can't hurt. But let's not pretend there won't be huge problems. The show would be interesting if it didn't gloss over them but of course it will. Know what I think would be cool to see? The town finding out (and seriously, rumours would be flying) and Society starts to shun George because of his bastard cousin, and we see how Mary takes it. Won't happen, would be interesting.

[RedHawk]

George will be the Earl of Grantham one day. No one is going to shun him because he has an illegitimate cousin.

 

As for Edith, I'm glad that Robert knows the secret and I hope soon it will be out in the open so that she can claim motherhood rather than listen to Mary make remarks like, "What will she be like when she has one of her own?" 
 

Edited February 26, 2015 by RedHawk

[Constantinople]

George will be the Earl of Grantham one day.

That's what they said about Matthew, and he lived and died as Mr. Crawley.

As for Edith, I'm glad that Robert knows the secret and I hope soon it will be out in the open so that she can claim motherhood rather than listen to Mary make remarks like, "What will she be like when she has one of her own?"

Once it's out in the open, I suspect Mary's remarks will be much more caustic.

[ZoloftBlob]

George will be the Earl of Grantham one day. No one is going to shun him because he has an illegitimate cousin.

 

Oh yes they can. Take a page from Lord's Merton's son - George is the son of Lord Grantham's odd middle class cousin. The blood in that family is so thin, one of his aunts married a papist Irishman and the other? Bore a bastard that he was raised with!

 

Add in Mary's "sex week" habits, and it's probably VERY lucky George looks like his father.

 

Now would it be something that would ruin *George's* chances in life? Probably not unless he manages to rise higher than his current position but it could be an issue when it comes time to marry, that George's family has illegitimacy so close.

 

As for Edith, I'm glad that Robert knows the secret and I hope soon it will be out in the open so that she can claim motherhood rather than listen to Mary make remarks like, "What will she be like when she has one of her own?"

 

Edith has been able to claim motherhood since she bore her child. She chooses not to, in part because of Mary's scorn. Now, I am not condoning how delighted Mary will be when she finds out about Edith's affair... but I will point out how gleeful Edith was to call her sister a slut. Edith's problem, with motherhood, with calling out Mary, is that unlike Mary, she's always most concerned with what people will think of *her* in the end. She doesn't want Mary to know not because Mary would be cruel or unkind to Marigold (my guess? if Mary deigned to notice the child at all, she would just feel sorry for Marigold) but that Edith herself is worried what Mary will say or do to her.

Edited February 26, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[shipperx]

Truly no one at Downtown is being shunned at Downton. Her grandparents have accepted Marigold and all the servants depend on the Crawleys for their jobs. If school is uncomfortable, when she's older the Swiss boarding school option still exists as does her grandmother in New York, and by the time she's 18 it will be WWII and there are bigger things to being concerned about than being born on the wrong side of an aristocrat's blanket. Marigold will have a doting mum, will be heir to a newspaper, and have a grandparent and first cousin who are/ will be peers. There have been children who have thrived through greater adversity than that.

Edited February 26, 2015 by shipperx

[morakot]

Did we ever find out who was at the other end of Edith's secret phone call? The one she had to make down in Carson's office instead of the library? Do we know whose point of view the scene was from? It seemed implied that someone was outside watching her.

[TheGreenKnight]

Edith has been able to claim motherhood since she bore her child. She chooses not to, in part because of Mary's scorn. Now, I am not condoning how delighted Mary will be when she finds out about Edith's affair... but I will point out how gleeful Edith was to call her sister a slut.

I'd also point out more than a decade in time that passed between the two cases. If Mary can still be that 'gleefully' pathetic after WWI, Sibyl's death, her husband's death, etc., I see her in much harsher terms than adolescent Edith being nastily vengeful.

 

To Obviously: I was speaking in general, not just in regards to the baby situation. Robert and Violet have both been cruel to Edith in the past, imo. There was some kindness in Rosamund's actions the past two seasons (particularly going away with her for all that time), but I also found her manipulative, too. Not that I'm absolving Edith of her own part in everything that happened in regards to her child this season.

[ZoloftBlob]

If Mary can still be that 'gleefully' pathetic after WWI, Sibyl's death, her husband's death, etc., I see her in much harsher terms than adolescent Edith being nastily vengeful.

 

To be fair, the events over which Edith was gleefully calling Mary a slut in part led to Mary having to almost marry a man she didn't love and to confess to her mother that she was a slut, and have to tell her potential husband that she was essentially unmarriageable. Mary's momentary indiscretion and Edith's pure delight in fucking the bitch over led to approximately 8 years of torment for Mary. I don't consider Mary a very sympathetic character at all but really, lets not pretend 21 year old Edith was a catty 14 year old who genuinely felt bad when things exploded for Mary. Because Mary's a raging bitch who never says sorry.... and you know what? Edith's never expressed a fucking moment of regret for her shit moments either. As it happens, as of the current episode - Mary's opinion of her is far more important to Edith than acknowledging that her daughter is actually her daughter. Mary might be mean so Marigold *Drewe* is an orphan lifted from the poor house and NOT Edith's beloved.

[sark1624]

(first post, sorry for me english its not my first language). Edith its a character that has change  a lot in the time, its true in season 1 made a lot of troubles with the turk and etc for the jealousy towards Mary . But when she told Mary that Matthwe was missing in action it was a sort of way of apologize to Mary, also comfort Mary in the episode when a General visit the house;  the only nasty coment about Matthew and Mary was  in the episode 1 when they were speaking of the visit of Matthew and Lavinia to the concert, after all the work with the wounded soldiers she mature a lot and maybe she realize that in life there a things more important than suitable marriage like Mary wants.

 

About Marigold my opinion that because she dont want to tell to Mary its because she know how Mary can treat her daughter, in a sort of way  she is protecting her  from nasty remarks that Mary could say; to this point of life i think that Edith only has eyes for Marigold, Mary in comparison seem to be more childish and the way to know that is that she jokes about another persons interest (she makes jokes about Tom going to the politic reunion in season 4 or go to America); the priorities of Mary should be George and the running of the estate but its seems that the main cause for her its look good in parties and say witty things, the priorities for Edith now its Marigold and far away the running of the magazine (that its a shame  because it could be a very cool thing to look).

[ShadowFacts]

Well done first post, sark1624.  Continuing your thought about Edith protecting Marigold, when Mary made the remark about imagine how Edith will be with her own child, I said under my breath "better than you."  The stark contrast between how Edith thinks about Marigold and how Mary (doesn't) think about George, should actually make Mary put two and two together, wouldn't you think?  I do hope Edith breaks with the household routine of seeing her daughter only once a day for an hour or whatever it is.  She should take her out and about a lot and not leave it all to the nannies.  She went through hell (and caused other people lots of pain), so maybe she will not be content to treat her child as an accoutrement.  One can hope, anyway.

[shipperx]

Mary was 21 during the Pamuk incident. So, unless they're twins, Edith would have, at most, barely been 20.

Given that Sybil was 17, I tend to guess that Edith was 19 simply to allow Cora a breather between births, but no hard age was given for Edith unlike Mary who was stated in one of the Downton tie-in books to have been 21 in season 1.

And I side-eye the blaming Edith with the entirity 8 years of 'torment'. I grant Mary had reason to be pissed with Edith over the letter and it could have caused much trouble. Could have. But the scandal never metasized. It was quashed. Regardless, Mary still had grounds to be pissed.

It didn't make Mary wholly reluctant to marry, though, she willingly.got engaged to Richard.

As for Matthew, if the claim is that Mary first turned him down over not wanting to confess that she wasn't a virgin, well Edith had nothing to do with that. Mary slept with Pamuk, by her own account, of her own choice. Edith wrote a letter after the fact to create a scandal that never materialized. There was no scandal, just an absent virginity. The actual absence of virginity had nothing to do with Edith. If Mary was in 'torment' over her lack of virginity and her needing to tell a fiance, that was a problem of her own creation. Yes, Edith was bitchy about it and made snide judgements and attempted to cause a scandal. Mary has grounds to be pissed, but Edith didn't cause Mary to sleep with the guy, losing her virginity, or not to tell Matthew about it. And the impression was that Mary turned him down over the uncertainty of his.becoming an Earl at Rosamund's other well meaning but asshatted advice. Cora and Violet thought Mary turned him down over the issue of the Downton entail. Offended, Matthew became engaged to Lavinia and Mary to Richard and Edith had nothing to do with that either. Losing her virginity, not telling Matthew, holding off on accepting over the issue of the entailment, and becoming engaged to Richard were not based on Edith's letter but on Mary having had sex with a one night stand and her wish to have a certain financial security.

Edited February 26, 2015 by shipperx

[ZoloftBlob]

And 19 is not old enough to be responsible as an adult? I mean - that's the argument right? If you're under twenty, but above 18 - you're an adult but you're still a child when you act shitty? Technically by our times, and by 1912 standards, Edith wasn't a *child* at 19, she was a marriageable woman.

 

I mean, sure, lets say Edith was a 19 year old *child* and should have gotten a pat on the head for her childish school girl prank because it was just an adorable little girl, not a grown woman who already had her season and was considered an eligible single woman. SO Mary needs to suck it - her shattered life and trials are all on Mary because Mary was 21 when she spread her legs for Pamuk.

 

My problem with this is that when Edith is OLDER than 19 - she's not on the hook for the same behavior. When she's 26-27 and having sex out of wedlock, she's still a girl overcome by the first love of her life and not *really* responsible for her own behavior. Gives up her child on multiple occasions? Not responsible at what, 30? Because she's out of her mind with baby hormones. When Edith does something that is nasty or that backfires badly, its never really Edith's fault because there's always someone or something else to blame and that's part of why Edith isn't very likable at times.

 

And honestly - the letter to the Turkish embassy was a cold, well thought out piece of revenge.

[shipperx]

No, 19 is old enough to know what she was doing. It was mean and vindictive and Mary had just cause to be pissed. Edith was being childish, jealous, and knew what she was doing it. Its deserving of censure.

But juvenile behavior in a 19-20 year old is more forgivable in the age range of being a college co-ed than in a 30+ year old mother who has had a decade more of life experience including real losses, tragedies, and war which should go a ways toward adjusting perspective and priorities. Maturity isn't age. Its life experience, and there's been a great dealbof it imparted to both Mary and Edith since season 1.

Edited February 26, 2015 by shipperx

[ZoloftBlob]

And I side-eye the blaming Edith with the entirity 8 years of 'torment'. I grant Mary had reason to be pissed with Edith over the letter and it could have caused much trouble. Could have. But the scandal never metasized. It was quashed. Regardless, Mary still had grounds to be pissed.

 

It was quashed because Mary and Cora expended a great deal of energy in keeping it quiet and were at one point planning to marry Mary to SIr Richard simply to keep the scandal from becoming public. Had Edith not written the letter - none of that song and dance would have been necessary.

 

To me though, the bigger issue is how Edith is making so much of this all about poor Edith - She's got her kid currently in her home as her ward because why? She doesn't want Mary sniping at her.

[shipperx]

I think it's a tad more complicated than simply a reaction to Mary.

And there was more than one source for the rumors of Mary and Paruk. It also got out below stairs with servants gossip ...which in no way justifies or ameliorates what Edith did. Just noting that Richard still stood the possibility of finding out via other established within the show routes.

Nor would Richard have ever have been in the situation at all had Mary not hesitated with Matthew over the entailment issue. She would have had to have told Matthew the truth about Pamuk regardless and he accepted it when she did anyway. Richard only got into the situation once she became his social climbing marital prospec, which wouldn't have happened had Mary not delayed accepting matthew over the entailment. I can feel sorry for Mary's quandary but she had a hand in it. It cannot ALLLLL be laid at Edith's feet.

In a more general way, though I wish to note there's a qualitative difference between denying there were mistakes and having compassion for mistakes that were made.

It's possible to see and understand characters making bad decision and to not justify those decisions and yet to STILL have compassion for them and their mistakes, pointing to the context.

Mary was reckless to sleep with Pamuk. I would however cringe and become indignant at any poster calling her a whore or slut over it. I had/have compassion about the sexist/misogynist societal dictates that would consider her 'ruined' ...because what a demeaning, repugnant judgement that without her hymen she was 'less worthy' than she had been before. If Matthew had refused her I would have thought 'what a dick! He doesn't love her and she deserves better'. And had she been pregnant and gone down Edith's path, I would have felt sorry for her and wanted things to turn out better for her. None of which means that I think Mary didn't make a mistake with Pamuk, just that I see the more broad context and could feel compassion and outrage over the societal strictures that would judge her 'damaged goods'

Just as I felt for the grasping maid who slept with the soldier at Downton and who got pregnant and then had to turn to prostitution and was cornered into giving up her child to the jerk soldier's parents--who had oreviously refused to aid the child. The maid made many bad decisions but in the greater context was more sinned against than sinning, and I felt for her.

Similarly, I can see Edith's mistakes-- many of them. They are there and need not be denied, but I can have compassion for them because I also acknowledge the context within which they are made. It's okay to feel compassion even when you recognize a character is making reckless, poor, or bad decisions.

Edited February 26, 2015 by shipperx

[persey]

Chiming in - yes, Mary dealt with the repercussions of the potential Pamuk scandal for years, and that was down to Edith. While there was antagonism between them before Edith wrote the letter, Edith escalated that situation from sniping and  "meanness" to potentially life-ruining.  Nothing Mary has done to Edith, before or since, is on a comparable scale.  And now, Edith's choices are conditioned because she's afraid of Mary's response?  Well, that's of her own making.   

 

Edith is so busy being sorry for Edith that she's willing to sacrifice anyone to making up for her own poor choices.  Somehow, that fits her perverted idea of "justice."  Sure, put your name on the birth certificate, just in case you want to change your mind or your situation changes.  Other people's rights or emotions?  Feh.  The daughter she purportedly dotes on?  Not as important to Edith as Edith. 

[ShadowFacts]

I don't think Edith is afraid of Mary's response to finding out the truth.  She said she doesn't want Mary "queening it" over her, and can't face her father thinking less of her.  In a sense it is semantics I suppose, she isn't in fear per se, but she wants to avoid what she predicts will be Mary's escalating hostility.  She could accomplish that by staying in London.  But then where's the drama for us? 

[Constantinople]

I don't think Edith is afraid of Mary's response to finding out the truth.  She said she doesn't want Mary "queening it" over her

In a sense it is semantics I suppose, she isn't in fear per se, but she wants to avoid what she predicts will be Mary's escalating hostility.

I don't understand the difference since if Mary did "queen it" as anticipated by Edith, that would be Mary's response.

Or perhaps Edith doesn't care what Mary thinks provided that Mary STFU about it, and the easiest way to get Mary to STFU is to keep her in the dark. But in that case, Edith is still preempting Mary's response.

[ZoloftBlob]

I don't think Edith is afraid of Mary's response to finding out the truth.  She said she doesn't want Mary "queening it" over her, and can't face her father thinking less of her.  In a sense it is semantics I suppose, she isn't in fear per se, but she wants to avoid what she predicts will be Mary's escalating hostility.

 

Yes, she was "queening it" over Mary when Mary did Pamuk and rubbed Mary's face in it, and now when she's on the recieving end, she doesn't want to have to eat the same shit she served Mary a heaping helping of. Heaven forbid Edith have to face the consequences of her actions.

 

Ironically, while Mary is almost season one Cruella DeVille Mary, I think the real problem facing Edith is that Mary would shrug her shoulders, say thats what she expected of Edith, and then openly feel sorry for Marigold.

[ShadowFacts]

Mary should shrug her shoulders at Edith's sexual behavior, given her own recent free-wheeling ways.  As for openly feeling sorry for Marigold, she might find herself on the receiving end of a smackdown from Robert.  Robert is apparently about to have Sybbie move away, and has verbalized that he is surprised at how he feels about his new grandchild.  So Mary needs to tread lightly there. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Feeling sorry for the kid isn't being cruel, you know

[ShadowFacts]

Feeling sorry for the kid isn't being cruel, you know

 

Right, it isn't.  But openly?  Depending on what she would say and who hears it, Mary might expect a rebuke.  Violet recently called her out for a cutting remark.  But since this is Edith's thread and my original point was that she doesn't look forward to Mary queening it, I certainly concede that Edith can definitely expect that.  She has no reason to believe that Mary's reaction will be merciful. 

[TheGreenKnight]

To be fair, the events over which Edith was gleefully calling Mary a slut in part led to Mary having to almost marry a man she didn't love and to confess to her mother that she was a slut, and have to tell her potential husband that she was essentially unmarriageable. Mary's momentary indiscretion and Edith's pure delight in fucking the bitch over led to approximately 8 years of torment for Mary. I don't consider Mary a very sympathetic character at all but really, lets not pretend 21 year old Edith was a catty 14 year old who genuinely felt bad when things exploded for Mary. Because Mary's a raging bitch who never says sorry.... and you know what? Edith's never expressed a fucking moment of regret for her shit moments either. As it happens, as of the current episode - Mary's opinion of her is far more important to Edith than acknowledging that her daughter is actually her daughter. Mary might be mean so Marigold *Drewe* is an orphan lifted from the poor house and NOT Edith's beloved.

I suppose we'll just have to disagree, because I believe Mary caused the majority of her own problems by being focused on money and status. She could've been married to Matthew at the end of the first season, but there was the question of him being the heir and she lost out. NOT because of Edith's actions.

 

I don't believe Mary's opinion is important to Edith so much as she doesn't want to put up with the daily bitchfest. And I don't blame her. Perhaps Edith has never come out and said "I'm sorry," but the few times I've seen Edith say anything remotely negative towards Mary since the first season has been directly following one of Mary's own snipes. And is Mary the only reason Edith and the family are pretending the girl is "an orphan"? Wouldn't there be some fallout to being honest about the girl, re: how the rest of society will react (because it would get out)? Do we know that Edith won't let the girl know the whole story as soon as she can speak and that Cora/Robert/Violet won't act like her grandparents/great grandmother?

[TheGreenKnight]

Chiming in - yes, Mary dealt with the repercussions of the potential Pamuk scandal for years, and that was down to Edith. While there was antagonism between them before Edith wrote the letter, Edith escalated that situation from sniping and  "meanness" to potentially life-ruining.  Nothing Mary has done to Edith, before or since, is on a comparable scale. 

I disagree. If we're basing this on the fallout of their actions, what about Mary sabotaging the relationship with Strallan? Edith we know wasn't and hasn't received many eligible suitors, and the family never expected it for her. The fact that Mary sabotaged what seems like the one possible marriage could've ruined her chance at 'the happy ending' that the girls of her society are supposed to expect, damning her to a life of spinsterhood, pity, and loneliness. Even the fact that Strallan later returned, marred from the war, and bullied by Robert/Violet, only to leave Edith at the altar could all have been avoided by Mary's actions in season 1 because they would've already been married. As it stands, Edith is still worse off because of Mary's actions in season 1 than Mary is by Edith's.

 

I think Mary and Edith were already "even" at the end of season 1. Ever since, Mary's justification for her behavior towards Edith has been her quote, "That's like asking a fox to spare the chicken." As if it's some kind of biological obligation/excuse for her as the firstborn and most attractive daughter to merclilessly taunt her unlucky and uglier sister. And this was going on before Edith's actions in regards to Pamuk, so that's not an explanation/excuse for her behavior in any way.

Edited February 27, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[ZoloftBlob]

Mary was damaged goods socially because of the Pamuk incident and because Edith chose to broadcast the Pamuk incident. When Mary was the slut, Edith did her best to see to it her sister was branded a slut publically. Mary caused her problem with Pamuk by sleeping with Pamuk. Edith greatly enhanced Mary's problem by mailing the Turkish Embassy about it. Mary has certainly made her own mistakes but the whole potential blackmail/marry Sir Richard to keep the scandal from occurring stuff happened because Edith wanted to grind her down.

 

Perhaps Edith has never come out and said "I'm sorry,"

 

She hasn't. There's no indication that she is sorry. Again, Mary's a bitch, no arguement from me, but Edith has never expressed one regret over it. Attempting to destroy any chance Mary had at marriage is a bit of deal breaker in the relationship, not being sorry at all means Mary is playing nicely when she snipes. If Edith had gotten her way, Mary would be a social pariah with no marriage prospects.

 

And is Mary the only reason Edith and the family are pretending the girl is "an orphan"?

 

No, Mary "queening it" over Edith is why Edith didn't want Mary to know. Because Edith doesn't want her slut remarks thrown back in her face - whats good enough for her to do to Mary is not ok to do to her. Edith doesn't want her father to know for similar reasons.

 

Its so far somehwat unstated that Violet and Roslind don't want it known because its a scandal.

 

Wouldn't there be some fallout to being honest about the girl, re: how the rest of society will react (because it would get out)? Do we know that Edith won't let the girl know the whole story as soon as she can speak and that Cora/Robert/Violet won't act like her grandparents/great grandmother?

 

You don't tell small children secrets you don't want getting out.In our enlightened 2015, we know it can cause problems when a child is lied to. However, in 1925, no one who actually wants the secret kept is going to tell Marigold that her real mother is Edith because the entire point of the rigamorale around the Drewes is to conceal the fact that Edith lost her virtue and had a child out of wedlock with a married man. This whole song and dance is so Edith doesn't have to be the village shame. If they're serious about protecting the secret, Marigold Drewe the ward won't find out she's Marigold Crawley (or Gregson) until she's quite old enough to understand the problem she represents.

 

Eta - TheGreenKnight - I actually think Mary's screwing over Strallan was her tit for tat revenge over Pamuk. I think it was incredibly cruel but it could have been survived - Edith could have tried to speak with Strallan over it and explain her sister was being a cruel bitch for ahem, no apparent reason. Hell, STrallan could have been a LIL more self confident and questioned just what Mary was up to that day at the party as well.

Edited February 27, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[kpw801]

I disagree. If we're basing this on the fallout of their actions, what about Mary sabotaging the relationship with Strallan? Edith we know wasn't and hasn't received many eligible suitors, and the family never expected it for her. The fact that Mary sabotaged what seems like the one possible marriage could've ruined her chance at 'the happy ending' that the girls of her society are supposed to expect, damning her to a life of spinsterhood, pity, and loneliness. Even the fact that Strallan later returned, marred from the war, and bullied by Robert/Violet, only to leave Edith at the altar could all have been avoided by Mary's actions in season 1 because they would've already been married. As it stands, Edith is still worse off because of Mary's actions in season 1 than Mary is by Edith's.

 

I think Mary and Edith were already "even" at the end of season 1. Ever since, Mary's justification for her behavior towards Edith has been her quote, "That's like asking a fox to spare the chicken." As if it's some kind of biological obligation/excuse for her as the firstborn and most attractive daughter to merclilessly taunt her unlucky and uglier sister. And this was going on before Edith's actions in regards to Pamuk, so that's not an explanation/excuse for her behavior in any way.

True.  Mary already had "more suitors than Princess Aurora" to quote Lord Grantham.  Edith truly was happy with Strallan and he with her.  That is the thing about what Mary did too.  She not only hurt Edith she also ruined Strallan's chance at happiness and companionship.  I do not like Mary at all.  While she was married to Matthew he used to call her on her nastiness in a gentle way but since he died she has no one to check her cruelty.  Edith would have been a happily married woman with legitimate children as I assume everything else Strallan had was in decent working order.  Mary is horrid.

[Crs97]

Yeah, the double standard for Edith has always been strong. When unmarried Pamuk barges uninvited to Mary's room, she is a slut. When Edith sleeps with a married man without a care for his sick wife other than the annoyance she is still alive, she is simply a victim of true love. And since she can't be bothered to protect herself and winds up pregnant, she screws over two families and continually lets Marigold get used to a family and then tears her away. But Mary is somehow the bad mother because she is raising her son the same way she was raised. Mary knows she is hard, and when people try to tell her otherwise she corrects them and when Tom calls her on things, she backs down. Edith laps it up when someone tells her she is a victim and gets upset when people try to tell her the truth.

While they both are flawed, I would rather spend time with Mary.

[sark1624]

in some points you have the reason but, the problem with Edith is mainly her romantic aspect of life, she has a very bad luck there and she made bad decistions. But in other aspects os her life she seems to be a very decent and kind person. For that last reason i think that some people prefer her befere Mary; Mary hardly do anything for others, there are many complains about Edith no runing the magazine but Mary has 3 o 4 lines about running the estate in 2 seasons, the rest its about clothes, suitors, etc.   

 

IMO i like the characters that have some type of evolution, Tom start like a inmature revolutionary to become a mature father (for that reason i think he is unclear about moving or not), Robert has become more liberal, Rose its not a just silly teenager and so with others in the house. The main problem with Edith is the poor writing of this season, they could be showing more interesting thing about her.

[TheGreenKnight]

Mary was damaged goods socially because of the Pamuk incident and because Edith chose to broadcast the Pamuk incident.

But Mary wouldn't have been damaged if she'd married Matthew when she had the chance. She would never have even met Richard, and that's all at Mary's doorstep and not Edith's.

 

 

She hasn't. There's no indication that she is sorry. Again, Mary's a bitch, no arguement from me, but Edith has never expressed one regret over it. Attempting to destroy any chance Mary had at marriage is a bit of deal breaker in the relationship, not being sorry at all means Mary is playing nicely when she snipes. If Edith had gotten her way, Mary would be a social pariah with no marriage prospects.

I wasn't aware I said any different? But I don't think Mary gets a pass for being horrid after season 1, since she already leveled Edith with more than equal damage and has no regret of her own. If revenge is not an excuse for Edith's behavior, it can't be for Mary either.

 

 

No, Mary "queening it" over Edith is why Edith didn't want Mary to know. Because Edith doesn't want her slut remarks thrown back in her face - whats good enough for her to do to Mary is not ok to do to her. Edith doesn't want her father to know for similar reasons.

As far as I know, Edith didn't say anything about being worried the slut remark would be thrown back in her face; is there any indication that Mary or Edith are still thinking about the Pamuk incident at all in regards to their behavior in season 5? It never seemed to me that Edith cared too much about sexual morality so much as she was trying to ruin Mary because she hated her, and those words were the best way to hurt her. Regardless, I still don't see how something that happened a decade previously constitutes similar behavior from Mary at this point. Unless we're to accept Mary is a static character, which makes her even more unlikable.

 

 

You don't tell small children secrets you don't want getting out.In our enlightened 2015, we know it can cause problems when a child is lied to.

Since we know how often things change on this show, I don't expect the child to grow up lied to. And even if she were? I personally think that's just looking for a reason to find fault considering the child will grow up rich and spoiled.

 

 

I actually think Mary's screwing over Strallan was her tit for tat revenge over Pamuk.

It was. That's why I don't see any justification for Mary's behavior now; she already got back at Edith in season 1, and has never apologized for it (or her previous daily snipes before it happened) either. If she's still sitting on that, she would come across even more ridiculous to me.

Edited February 28, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[ZoloftBlob]

That's why I don't see any justification for Mary's behavior now; she already got back at Edith in season 1, and has never apologized for it

 

As Edith never apologized. The reality is that it's been war between them. What's the justification for Edith thinking Mary will be a jerk? Oh right, Edith threw an atom bomb on their relationship and never regretted it, and now realizes that Mary totally has the upper hand and wants the rules to their little war to change... but not to where Edith has to have any regrets, express any apology or in any way change.

 

Mary's a bitch. So is Edith. The only real difference between Mary and Edith is that Mary wins more, not that Edith is a nicer person.

[TheGreenKnight]

Naturally I disagree. Edith rarely initiates the snipes she throws towards Mary in the later seasons. Would I like to be even more mature and not reciprocate--sure. But why is it more necessary for Edith to apologize for past deeds? Did Mary ever apologize for anything that might've caused Edith's hatred for her before Pamuk? (ie. the daily snipes then + whatever went on with the heir before Matthew) What I see is Edith not hating Mary anymore, but giving back equally whatever's thrown at her these days. I don't see her as still wishing ill on Mary; I can't say I see the same thing with Mary.

 

Btw, I do see both women as having a sense of entitlement with their own unique character flaws. It's only in regards to the sisterly back-and-forth that I see Mary as worse.

Edited February 28, 2015 by TheGreenKnight

[sark1624]

Edith didnt apologyze to Mary, but she told to her that Matthew was missing (with no intention to harm, she respect the love of Mary for Matthwe that gest say a lot) and also show some simpatize about Mary and Lavinia  in the episode when a general come to the house/hospital. Knowing the relation between this 2 sisters its a symbol of try to change some things, also Edith ask for a better relation beside Sybill dead body. 

[photo fox]

This is getting a little heated in here. Let's take a breath and count to three.

I know Edith and Mary are inextricably linked, like a pair of fighting eagles plunging to their deaths, but please remember that this is the Edith topic, and the posts should mainly be about her. If you want to debate "Who is more awful, Edith or Mary?" there's a topic for that.

(BTW, my vote is that it's a tie!)

[Crs97]

The Edith I liked was the one who started writing about women's issues in the paper.  I wish they had explored more of her in the workplace with all the other writers and journalists.  We could have seen her slowly gain the respect of her peers as they focused on the issues of the day.  I can hear the debates around the lunch table or the office desks.  Fellowes had an amazing opportunity to bring in all different perspectives on the changing times, and Edith could have been in the center of it all.  We never knew why or how Sybil got interested in political activism; we could have seen Edith's transformation, and Laura would have knocked it out of the park.  Then, if Mary and she still butted heads sometimes, it would at least have been about something that mattered.  Or they could have started agreeing on some things and found some common ground.  Lots of siblings who don't get along as children become very close as adults.  Fellowes had the world at his feet.  Instead, he goes the tiresome "fall in love with my boss" route and just mentions episodes later that she still writes.

 

Such a missed opportunity!

[SusanSunflower]

Crs97 -- I absolutely agree, could not agree more ... Edith had a moment of vast potential to be interesting ... much more interesting than Mary -- and to fulfill the promise she showed during her stint as an aide at the convalescent hospital. Sybil was a real nurse, but Edith put her stumbling and stammering (palpably inadequate) self forward, which was very brave. So was writing that first column. Had she and her columns continued, we might have been able to get some insight at to what was up in Parliament and other issues of the day (just in passing, for context). Now, she's apparently destined to be never married, baby on her hip for as long as Marigold can be persuaded to allow it, stuck at home, avoiding Mary with all her might. Glad she's got the kid, but jeez, what a lonely future ... and that's the difference between Edith and Mary -- because Edith does feel like lonely person, while Mary really doesn't, not that it matters much to cold-cold-hearted Mary. Sheesh, even Violet has Isobel. 

[caligirl50]

I think one of the happiest moments for Edith on the show is in Season 3 when at the breakfast table Robert is reading the newspaper and reads Edith's letter to the Times and both Matthew and Tom champion her.  I just love her face in that scene.

[Roseanna]

It's hard to me understand this high moral tone "it's wrong and she shouldn't do it". If the characters always behaved well, there would be no story. They must make mistakes or rather, men actually never do mistakes, they only notice afterwards that the result wasn't what they intended. It's not the same as to intentionally hurt somebody which is much worse (which both Edith and done but both were first hurt by the other).

As for having sex outside marriage, although we must understand what was the standard for the upper-class woman at that time and how it should ruin their reputation if revealed, I don't think we must condemn Mary nor Edith for it.

That said, I understand more Edith who acted out of love. Imagine a thirty-year-woman who first time in her life experiences that a man loves her as she is, admires her mind and lusts her body. He is married but lives not with his wife. Even if he weren't willing to divorce, I would have said to Edith if I were her friend: go and get happiness when you can!

With Strallan, I would have given just the opposite advice: never mind if you never marry, don't waste your life with a man you like but certainly don't want to bed. Find your talents, began to work and create your own life.

The show didn't exactly follow the period in other matters, either: Robert fell in love with Cora although most such marriage failed, Mary fell in love and married the heir etc. So why would Edith had to be satisfied with a marriage of convenience? Cora was once quite right: misfortunes makes one stronger.

[SusanSunflower]

Much more than Mary, Edith had absorbed that life was fleeting ... Patrick, Lavinia, "all the boys" they used to dance with, fake-Patrick, even Matthew (poof - gone) even the prospect of marrying a war-wounded much older Strallen ... even Gregson's wife and lost-marriage .. It would have been nice if Fellowes gave a hat-tip to the emotional battle-fatigue WWI caused to the home front -- Testiment to Youth ...  Edith didn't arrive at Gregson's flat with an overnight bag (or condoms) ... Her major intimacy at that point had been the farmer whose tractor she drove and whose wife she enraged ... Gregson was a gentleman ... I suspect she was taken by surprise (happily). 

[DianeDobbler]

With Strallan, I would have given just the opposite advice: never mind if you never marry, don't waste your life with a man you like but certainly don't want to bed. Find your talents, began to work and create your own life.

 

It always seemed to me that Edith was perfectly ready to be a full wife to Anthony Strallan and wasn't repelled by him at all. This was part of the story that never made sense to me. She seemed happy. We saw them enjoying each other's company. Edith was thriving. Meanwhile, her family, which had been willing to see Mary marry Strallan, suddenly interfered. It played like nothing so much as her family being repulsed at the idea that Edith would be married to a man of position and have her own estate. No, on paper it wasn't a great match for her emotionally. The problem is that Edith seemed very happy!