S01.E08: What Rough Beast

[Mr. Sparkle]

Season Finale

Rowan inadvertently discovers her role in a prophecy that's held the Mayfair family for generations; Sip's investigation reaches its conclusion, uncovering secrets that could tarnish both Rowan's family and his role in the Talamasca.

Streaming on AMC+ 23.02.23 and airing on AMC 23.02.26. 

Proceed at your own risk for spoilers before the AMC airdate.

[Glade]

Good for JoJo in wanting to confront the family legacy and end the cycle of rape, murder and incest; she is probably the best character on the show, despite her ill-fitting silk charmuse pantsuit.  The terrible special effects, shirtless Lasher, and very white insta-baby all left a lot to be desired, however.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Speechless. I cannot describe how unbelievably bad that was. I really need time to process it. 

[snickers]

3 hours ago, Glade said:

The terrible special effects, shirtless Lasher, and very white insta-baby all left a lot to be desired, however.

while watching the fire scene I thought to myself, "I thought special effects are supposed to be better in the year 2023 than the year 1983"

 

 

and yeah....the baby 😶 ....maybe since its lasher we are supposed to just not question it 🤨

and what's up with the falsehood of the interview character appearance? unless it happened so fast I missed it, I didn't see anyone from interview in this series-i swear AMC put that rumor out to get people to watch this because they knew this show was doomed with the fans

[Mr. Sparkle]

11 hours ago, snickers said:

and what's up with the falsehood of the interview character appearance? unless it happened so fast I missed it, I didn't see anyone from interview in this series-i swear AMC put that rumor out to get people to watch this because they knew this show was doomed with the fans

I didn't see it either. 

11 hours ago, snickers said:

and yeah....the baby 😶 ....maybe since its lasher we are supposed to just not question it 🤨

Was that supposed to be a newborn? I'm just confused and actually annoyed that I spent so much time on this. 

[snickers]

I thought it was supposed to be some type of sped up growth thing, like the pregnancy 🤷🏽‍♀️but if that is supposed to be a newborn I wouldn’t be surprised with this train wreck 🙄

Edited February 26, 2023 by snickers

[Scarlett45]

When Rowen was calling out to Lasher “what did you say?? What did you mean??” She sounded like a whiny 5yrs old again- no offense to 5yrs olds. 
 

Regarding the baby’s complexion, most babies take a few weeks to develop their color, (babies of color aren’t born the same shade they are as adults or even 3yrs olds) assuming the baby was actually supposed to be a newborn (I know they don’t use real newborns on set), I am fine with the baby resembling Rowan more than Cip.

What a cute little chub wub of LOVE, though. I love chubby babies- how could he evil with those cheeks?!!! he was just chilling out playing with the necklace. 

On 2/25/2023 at 9:37 AM, Superclam said:

I didn't see it either. 

Was that supposed to be a newborn? I'm just confused and actually annoyed that I spent so much time on this. 

 

23 hours ago, snickers said:

I thought it was supposed to be some type of sped up growth thing, like the pregnancy 🤷🏽‍♀️but if that is supposed to be a newborn I wouldn’t be surprised with this train wreck 🙄

It’s bad writing if we can’t tell if it’s a casting issue or a writing issue. I agree with you both!

[Rahul]

The writing is awful. The acting is terrible. The casting and direction is very off. The special effects and costumes are subpar.

How is a show about witches and magic set in New Orleans this utterly boring and tedious? Oh, I know—this is the same showrunner team that was behind Masters of Sex which managed to make sex and sexuality boring. This team of Esta Spalding  and her faceless colleague needs to be fired and never work in Hollywood again.

[ZeeEnnui]

Welp. I definitely didn't have Uncle Daddy Incest on my show bingo card. I guess this show can surprise me (the bar is so low it's practically on the ground but still). 

I haven't read the books, so I don't know how things go down there, but you CANNOT tell me the show writers are not massive fans of the 80s cheese-fest Clash of the Titans. Courtland/Perseus getting turned to stone feels like fan service for xennials. 

More JoJo in season 2, please. I want to see her and Rowan's dynamic evolve now that they both know the truth. 

The most consistent thing about Rowan (besides her deer-in-headlights reactions to everything) is that she doesn't let no man tell her what to do. Had Daddario had better direction (or possibly an acting coach), I think this moment would have been really awesome. As much as I like, Cip, he always acts on the assumption that Rowan is being controlled by Lasher. I think that there is an element of that, but he's forgetting that Rowan is messy. It's a bit condescending honestly. Rowan, however much we bitch about her on these boards does have control over what she does, and I'd shoot a mind bolt of magic if some dude implied I didn't have agency in my own decisions too. Is Rowan going to turn evil or will good win out? We'll have to see but I'm rooting for anything that gives Rowan a personality in season two. 

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, ZeeEnnui said:

The most consistent thing about Rowan (besides her deer-in-headlights reactions to everything) is that she doesn't let no man tell her what to do. Had Daddario had better direction (or possibly an acting coach), I think this moment would have been really awesome. As much as I like, Cip, he always acts on the assumption that Rowan is being controlled by Lasher. I think that there is an element of that, but he's forgetting that Rowan is messy. It's a bit condescending honestly. Rowan, however much we bitch about her on these boards does have control over what she does, and I'd shoot a mind bolt of magic if some dude implied I didn't have agency in my own decisions too. Is Rowan going to turn evil or will good win out? We'll have to see but I'm rooting for anything that gives Rowan a personality in season two. 

Yes I agree. I do like Cip, but Rowan is a grown ass woman even though she’s new to the magical world. He talks to her like a child. Now granted she does often sound like a child with her whinning and crying. And what’s up with her posture! But I loved when she turned Cortland to dust and zapped the ground with lightening. 
 

And what did they intend to use Cip’s sister for? Were they going to kill Rowan and have her nurse the baby? In 2023 when there’s infant formula and breast milk for sale??? 

[Ohiopirate02]

46 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

And what did they intend to use Cip’s sister for? Were they going to kill Rowan and have her nurse the baby? In 2023 when there’s infant formula and breast milk for sale??? 

I don't think they were going to kill Rowan, but they were definitely going to kidnap the baby and use Odette as a wet nurse.  Breast milk is a plot point in the books going forward.  I'm curious to know how Cip’s boss knew he needed Odette and that formula is not an option.  How much does he know and what's his motivation.  

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't think they were going to kill Rowan, but they were definitely going to kidnap the baby and use Odette as a wet nurse.  Breast milk is a plot point in the books going forward.  I'm curious to know how Cip’s boss knew he needed Odette and that formula is not an option.  How much does he know and what's his motivation.  

Thank you. 

[Ohiopirate02]

This episode finally felt gothic.  I appreciate the set design of the mausoleum.  I liked the flashbacks of other Mayfair witches throughout the years.  Still not liking how the show continues to use Suzanne. 

I am completely baffled with the pacing of the various plots that got us to the birth of Lasher.  A prophecy like "the thirteenth witch is the doorway" is something that needs to be dropped in episode two or three not in the back half of the finale and figured out immediately by the characters.  That should have been an ongoing mystery throughout the season, something left hanging in the air while Rowan learns about her family.  The whole Rowan doesn't want her legacy subplot, lets give it to Tessa makes zero sense after Cip, Rowan and the audience know about it.  Multiple Mayfairs knew about this prophecy and also knew what it meant.  Carlotta and Courtland were both scheming to either stop it or make it happen, and we barely get any of that.  The revelations that Courtland raped Diedre and also had her killed to make Rowan the thirteenth witch needed more time to breath.  It also would have been nice for the show to lay out why Rowan was so special.  

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

This episode finally felt gothic.  I appreciate the set design of the mausoleum.  I liked the flashbacks of other Mayfair witches throughout the years.  Still not liking how the show continues to use Suzanne. 

I am completely baffled with the pacing of the various plots that got us to the birth of Lasher.  A prophecy like "the thirteenth witch is the doorway" is something that needs to be dropped in episode two or three not in the back half of the finale and figured out immediately by the characters.  That should have been an ongoing mystery throughout the season, something left hanging in the air while Rowan learns about her family.  The whole Rowan doesn't want her legacy subplot, lets give it to Tessa makes zero sense after Cip, Rowan and the audience know about it.  Multiple Mayfairs knew about this prophecy and also knew what it meant.  Carlotta and Courtland were both scheming to either stop it or make it happen, and we barely get any of that.  The revelations that Courtland raped Diedre and also had her killed to make Rowan the thirteenth witch needed more time to breath.  It also would have been nice for the show to lay out why Rowan was so special.  

YES! Thank you! I wish we had gotten the prophecy in episode 3 or 4, along with Suzanne's origin story and how she got in bed with Lasher, then we could've built up to Rowan being the 13th Witch and her needing to conceive a child to give Lasher a body.

They could've used Carlotta better- she was interesting because she was evil, but she was right! She should've stayed alive longer and been a foil for Cortland, who seemed "nicer" but was working for Lasher. Knowing that he raped Deirdre (who trusted him, and he was her uncle!), allowed Carlotta to keep her drugged up and then had her MURDERED, should've been teased out sooner, I was fine with him dying in this episode BUT it was a snails pace, and then BAM the last episode wrapped everything up.

ALSO, was the sex between Ciprien and Rowan something they both wanted or were they influenced by Lasher? I would like to think they were in a fever dream but did want each other.

[Ohiopirate02]

28 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

YES! Thank you! I wish we had gotten the prophecy in episode 3 or 4, along with Suzanne's origin story and how she got in bed with Lasher, then we could've built up to Rowan being the 13th Witch and her needing to conceive a child to give Lasher a body.

They could've used Carlotta better- she was interesting because she was evil, but she was right! She should've stayed alive longer and been a foil for Cortland, who seemed "nicer" but was working for Lasher. Knowing that he raped Deirdre (who trusted him, and he was her uncle!), allowed Carlotta to keep her drugged up and then had her MURDERED, should've been teased out sooner, I was fine with him dying in this episode BUT it was a snails pace, and then BAM the last episode wrapped everything up.

ALSO, was the sex between Ciprien and Rowan something they both wanted or were they influenced by Lasher? I would like to think they were in a fever dream but did want each other.

The show really botched the Carlotta/Courtland feud.  We could have had a whole episode devoted to those two fighting each other using witchcraft and the America legal system.  We should have seen how Carlotta became the guardian of Antha and later Diedre.  Also how she was able to keep Rowan away from Courtland for decades.  The resources we see Courtland have should have been able to find Rowan rather quickly.  It's not like Cousin Ellie was trying too hard to hid herself and Rowan by living in the same place in California.  

I am also disappointed that the show failed to make any sex scene featuring Rowan and Ciprien obviously consensual.  There is enough rape in the source material that there was no compelling reason to make one of the few times a couple chooses to have sex be done under coercion.  

[Rahul]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am completely baffled with the pacing of the various plots that got us to the birth of Lasher.  A prophecy like "the thirteenth witch is the doorway" is something that needs to be dropped in episode two or three not in the back half of the finale and figured out immediately by the characters.  That should have been an ongoing mystery throughout the season, something left hanging in the air while Rowan learns about her family.  

Incompetent showrunning, as I've been saying throughout. This show will never improve with the current producers at the helm. I'd say more but I literally cannot be bothered because I find this show so dull.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, Rahul said:

Incompetent showrunning, as I've been saying throughout. This show will never improve with the current producers at the helm. I'd say more but I literally cannot be bothered because I find this show so dull.

The finished product is so dull.  I really do not get how someone can take the absolute bonkers source material and distill it down to this dreck.  This show should have been adapted by someone wiling to go full Gothic.  Every part of this production was subpar from the writing to the directing to the set design to the costumes and the acting.  Nothing stood out above the mediocrity.  I actually am committed to watching next season just to see how badly the show will interpret the source material.  

[eelpout]

I usually don't actively wish for a show to be cancelled, but...

[iMonrey]

Wow. This was bad. I was actually horrified when I thought it was an hour and a half and so relieved to see the last half hour was just a behind the scenes special I didn't have to watch. As it is I don't know how I made it this far, but I watched so much of it I guess I figured I needed to see it to the end. I won't be back for another season though. 

The whole thing was just such a mess. We already had an entire episode devoted to some weird spell/fever dream, so doing it again in the finale felt so cheap and lazy. The reliance on that gimmick makes it feel like you never really know what's going on, or what's real and what isn't. 

The idea about the prophecy was a convoluted mess. Who knew about it, why it took so long for anyone to talk about it, why it was such a secret, who wanted it to happen and who didn't, why so many of them agreed to try to bond Lasher with Tessa instead of Rowan. 

Ultimately, the show failed to make me care about any of these characters or the story they tried to tell.

[nodorothyparker]

Ye gods, what a disaster of a season and a season ender.

Making the prophecy of the 13th witch such a readily known thing within the family makes the whole Tessa and the witch hunters plot feel like an even bigger time waster than it already did. You all apparently can count enough to know Rowan is the 13th generation of the direct line. You know the demon seed has to spew forth from her. So what was even the point of trying to reassign the skeevy lounge lizard to a cadet branch member? Just level with her that this is how it's going to go and go about your business. At least on the page the family can be excused at least some of their blundering and terrible decision making because they all each only have bits and pieces of what they think they know without ever really seeing the whole of it. There's no mystery at all in just vomiting it out there 10 minutes into the final episode.

It's annoying that this episode was the first one to actually manage to pull off a bit of the gothic atmosphere Anne Rice steeps all of her worldbuilding in because it was just too little too late and bookended with a whole lot of stupid. I think we were supposed to be all caught up in the fever dream of Lasher's magical mystery tour through the family tree but all I could think watching Rowan roll around on the ground for what felt like forever was do you want fire ants? Because you're in south Louisiana now and that's how you get fire ants in places you most definitely do not want fire ants. 

Turning to stone was easily the finest bit of acting Harry Hamlin managed to pull off in this tire fire of a show.

[tennisgurl]

Its really too bad that the plot was such a hot mess, because the vibes of this episode is what I really wanted from this show. It felt very gothic, creepy in a decaying southern gothic kind of way, and you finally got a sense of the Mayfair legacy, this generational saga of magic and power, if the show had built on this then this would have been a very different season. 

Unfortunately the writing was an absolute mess. Rowan is a terrible protagonist, she hardly has anything close to agency in her own story despite her being some kind of chosen one, she's not very bright despite supposedly being a brilliant doctor, I can hardly name any personality trait of hers that isn't told instead of shown, you could substitute her with a lamp until the last minute when she finally got her powers going and the story wouldn't change. The characters in general are very bland even with a talented cast, everyone is pretty one note or underused, even the ones I generally like are still hard to get a read on, with the season over I still don't fully know who most of these people really are and what they want or who they even work for. 

This finale was very rushed, we kept getting tons of huge revelations dropped on us one after the other before they had any time to breathe, its like the show originally wanted to have two more episodes but had them cut so they needed to squeeze as much plot in this episode as they could to wrap things up. There's a prophecy? Something about Rowan being a super special 13th witch? Lasher is born? Courtland raped Deidra and later had her killed? Now Rowan has a magically aged baby? Rowan doesn't want to be a witch? This is just way too much information to get in the last few episodes of the show, these needed to have been established early in the season if they were going to make me care at all. 

Poor Deidre, what a sad life she had, a victim and pawn of everyone in her life. 

[snickers]

On 3/4/2023 at 11:41 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Turning to stone was easily the finest bit of acting Harry Hamlin managed to pull off in this tire fire of a show.

I agree 🤣

 

On 2/27/2023 at 9:08 PM, eelpout said:

I usually don't actively wish for a show to be cancelled, but...

I was thinking, I don't see how it could it be renewed, yet here we are....i don't know how.....I decided if I decide to watch, I'm waiting until all the episodes have aired to binge it....if I can even get through that.

[BigBlueMastiff]

so glad, i stopped watching, just gonna pretend the books are the only medium

[badhaggis]

15 hours ago, BigBlueMastiff said:

so glad, i stopped watching, just gonna pretend the books are the only medium

Me too. I realized I was dreading watching it. It really felt like a chore. I am back to the book!

[Kiss my mutt]

Is this supposed to be a comedy because I lol’d at every episode at the cheesiness. I agree, it became a chore and every week I kept putting off watching this. They should have used the directors and writers from Interview with a Vampire. I didn’t realize that was the last episode, but I’m glad it is. Wish we could get a do over with a different actress too. 

[Chaos Theory]

As a HUGE fan of Interview With The Vampire I was hoping this would be better.  It has all the ingredients for a good story and I don't necessarily think it was terrible.  I think this is one of those shows that might have been better off with a slower pace.    Allow Rowen to get involved with her family for a bit before all  the other stuff happens.  Maybe not include the Talamasca romance right from the start.  This was way too CW teen show and way to drop the main character into the deep end just to get to the finale in 8 episodes.    Heck IWTV used 2 seasons to tell the story maybe Mayfair could have done the same thing.  There is actual story in here that could have been told that got skipped over completely.  

Edited September 1 by Chaos Theory