S01.E08: Hang On To Your Life

[AnimeMania]

A TIME FOR HEALING - With some intense emotions still lingering after their high stakes recovery mission, Mary (Meg Donnelly) and John (Drake Rodger) stay close to home to watch over a newly returned Samuel Campbell (guest star Tom Welling). When Latika (Nida Khurshid) and Carlos (JoJo Fleites) split off to investigate the death of a musician, Carlos is forced to face a part of his past he has been avoiding. Millie (Bianca Kajlich) spends time helping Samuel recover from his injuries and learns a little more about the Men of Letters.

Original Air Date: January 24, 2023      9pm      CW 

[Commando Cody]

I was watching this episode speculating that if there wasn't a Deanna Campbell, there would be a Samuel and Millie thing going on. 

[Bergamot]

Here is the song that the episode title comes from:

I don't really think the song has any relevance or meaning to the story beyond its use for the title, but the lyrics do seem very apt considering the universe of the show.

"Thinking 'bout it's here and it's real
Wondering how I really should feel
Well you can sell your soul
But don't you sell it too cheap"

[catrox14]

I squealed when it was revealed that Dean is the person that gave John the letter. It's kind of like Dean telling John to buy the Impala. So now I wonder if Dean is still in this time or he's had to go back to Heaven? I'm also going to be a ok with however they make this work.

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I squealed when it was revealed that Dean is the person that gave John the letter. It's kind of like Dean telling John to buy the Impala. So now I wonder if Dean is still in this time or he's had to go back to Heaven? I'm also going to be a ok with however they make this work.

Having a little mystery about Dean - and in such a way that the story still stays on the 1970s characters - is really neat. 

[MAK]

My guess about Ketch was wrong. I'm glad it's Dean not some angel giving John the letter. The photo makes me think that the Dean in this show is from earlier than S15. But who knows, I'm here for their convoluted explanation in E13.

Still no Deanna. 

Did they say in any of the interviews/posts if this was actually Loki or Gabriel!Loki? With the whole contracts/deals, collecting souls, and how he was captured in the mirror, it seems to have been the Norse Loki. Unless Gabriel just made his "defeat" look good, but why would he surrender? And why would Gabriel need contracts or souls?

The main love story finally starting?

Carlos is awesome! JoJo is so talented, loved his singing!

[Bergamot]

31 minutes ago, MAK said:

I'm glad it's Dean not some angel giving John the letter. The photo makes me think that the Dean in this show is from earlier than S15. But who knows, I'm here for their convoluted explanation in E13.

Ha, me too! Right now I have no idea what's going on, but I agree with @Aeryn13, it's fun to have a little mystery involving Dean for the new characters to try to figure out. If I had to guess, I would say maybe it is something like in the movie Back to the Future, where Marty McFly has inadvertently changed the past, and his brother and sister fade from the photo because they no longer exist. Maybe Dean (or maybe Sam or Castiel) are no longer going to exist, and Dean is trying to fix things. I think this came to my mind because of the way John and Mary were staring so intently at the photo of Dean; I half-expected him to start fading out of the picture!

 

[Casseiopeia]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

The photo makes me think that the Dean in this show is from earlier than S15

I'm sure it doesn't mean anything but the original photo is from S6 if Jared's sideburns are any indication. That was the season of French Mistake.

[Bergamot]

14 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I was watching this episode speculating that if there wasn't a Deanna Campbell, there would be a Samuel and Millie thing going on. 

Yes, I see what you mean. There did seem to be some sparks between them. Like in that moment at the end, when she tells him she is going to try to fix the box, and he says, "I've known you long enough to know you're not really asking", and then thanks her for taking care of him.

I wonder what the reason is that they have left Deanna Campbell out of the story the way they have, and if they are ever going to bring her back into the story. It's not the first time I have wondered about the absence of the character. I remember back in Season Six of Supernatural, when Samuel tells Dean and Sam he is working for Crowley because Crowley promised him he would resurrect Mary, and I wondered why Samuel never even mentioned his dead wife.

 

[tessathereaper]

41 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Yes, I see what you mean. There did seem to be some sparks between them. Like in that moment at the end, when she tells him she is going to try to fix the box, and he says, "I've known you long enough to know you're not really asking", and then thanks her for taking care of him.

I wonder what the reason is that they have left Deanna Campbell out of the story the way they have, and if they are ever going to bring her back into the story. It's not the first time I have wondered about the absence of the character. I remember back in Season Six of Supernatural, when Samuel tells Dean and Sam he is working for Crowley because Crowley promised him he would resurrect Mary, and I wondered why Samuel never even mentioned his dead wife.

 

Well maybe now we know why too.  They said in a previous episode Samuel and Deanna often fought so maybe while they may have loved each other, it was also not necessarily a good relationship overall.  So it makes sense his daughter would be more important to him than his wife.

1 hour ago, Bergamot said:

Ha, me too! Right now I have no idea what's going on, but I agree with @Aeryn13, it's fun to have a little mystery involving Dean for the new characters to try to figure out. If I had to guess, I would say maybe it is something like in the movie Back to the Future, where Marty McFly has inadvertently changed the past, and his brother and sister fade from the photo because they no longer exist. Maybe Dean (or maybe Sam or Castiel) are no longer going to exist, and Dean is trying to fix things. I think this came to my mind because of the way John and Mary were staring so intently at the photo of Dean; I half-expected him to start fading out of the picture!

 

Maybe...that's why none of the pictures came out clear?  Because "time" is being messed it and is unstable?  I have to admit I'd prefer it if less Back to the Future and more that the Akrida caused this thing,  it was in 1972 and Dean knew his family would have the best chance of handling it, but needed both sides, MoL(lol Mole Men) and Hunters and then that ends up changing history.  Rather than it just being because he figured what the hell, might as well give it a try.

[Lastcall]

I don't think Dean is bouncing around time or that paradoxes are an issue. I believe they are keeping things simple. During Dean's ride the Akrida issue comes up and he is sent back to the 70's. He begins working behind the scenes getting everyone ready for the fight. I think there will be more revelations, but the photo shows him in the area Samuel was investigating so it seems his time in the 70's is a long-term thing. Dean probably isn't worried about changing history because once the Akrida are taken care of, everything gets back on track with mind wipe. 

[iMonrey]

Probably not a good sign I forgot all about this show until this episode turned up on my DVR.

It was fun seeing the Trickster again, but the stakes were pretty low, considering we know he survives to be on the OG.

Quote

Did they say in any of the interviews/posts if this was actually Loki or Gabriel!Loki? With the whole contracts/deals, collecting souls, and how he was captured in the mirror, it seems to have been the Norse Loki. Unless Gabriel just made his "defeat" look good, but why would he surrender? And why would Gabriel need contracts or souls?

That's the other thing, they changed who he was so many times I sort of forgot what they landed on in the end.

Have they said where John's father is? They keep mentioning him but I have no idea where he's supposed to be.

Edited January 25, 2023 by iMonrey

[PAForrest]

I thought this episode was excellent - probably the best of the season so far. Everyone was on point, and I thought Welling did a really good job bringing in Pileggi's gruff take on the character from ItB. He was honestly better than I hoped.

And it is interesting that Deanna remains a very background/off screen character, more than she was in ItB - though even there she was minor - but much like when Gamble brought Samuel back in season 6 and completely ruined him. In that season you would never have known Mary had a mother or what her name was if you never saw ItB. In this episode Mary does continue to be more important to Samuel than the wife he never mentions - maybe because she's his only child, but not in the uber creepy way she was to Gamble's Samuel in S6.

Yet Mary names her first born after her mother and not her father. I always thought that was eye-opening considering how little Deanna is ever mentioned in canon.

But I definitely felt a spark between Samuel and Millie. Honestly, they would have made a good team.

My feeling from the beginning was that it was either an angel/Cas or it was Dean who gave John the letter; and I admit my first choice would have been Dean, so yay!

If the Trickster is still ultimately Gabriel in this iteration, it's interesting that he was caught with the mirror designed to capture a Trickster. I assume he was faking it for reasons, but if this is a different timeline/universe, maybe the Trickster is different from the OG 'verse and not Gabriel after all.

I honestly wondered if JoJo could actually sing, and I loved that they gave him a chance at the end, with Louden Swain in bad 70's wigs backing him up. Cool!

All in all, I really dug this one.

Edited January 27, 2023 by PAForrest

[BornToDie]

I’m starting to wonder if people would actually watch this show without the involvement of Dean. Almost all the discourse surrounding this episode has been about Dean’s birthday, the photo, what is his magical mystery mission, stuff like that.  Who is this show really about, anyway?  And what does it say about the show when there seems to be more conversation about a character who shows up for two minutes here and there than the six main cast members? 

Edited January 26, 2023 by BornToDie
Added content

[Shadow42]

Honestly Jensen and Robbie were the only reason I was interested in the series. Don't really care about the rest of the cast.

The mystery of Dean's involvement/reason for manipulating time is the only reason I keep watching.

[Bergamot]

20 hours ago, MAK said:

Did they say in any of the interviews/posts if this was actually Loki or Gabriel!Loki? With the whole contracts/deals, collecting souls, and how he was captured in the mirror, it seems to have been the Norse Loki. Unless Gabriel just made his "defeat" look good, but why would he surrender? And why would Gabriel need contracts or souls?

I was confused about this too, whether this was supposed to be Loki or Gabriel. In either case, I don't think this was about making a contract for souls, but about playing a typical Trickster's cruel "game" with people, just for fun. You are a singer who wants to mesmerize and enthrall people when you sing -- sure, he will make it possible for you to do this, to the point that you literally set them on fire with the power of your performance. Haha, very funny -- that will teach you! Tricksters, as Bobby tells Dean and Sam, are all about playing deadly pranks to "knock people down a peg".

Since Loki was a Trickster demigod, and Gabriel took over his persona and was playing a Trickster, it still could be either one. I tend to think it was Loki, because he does get trapped at the end (the visual effect as he gets pulled into the mirror was pretty cool!) Loki was trapped by the "rules" of his game when he lost the game to Carlos; I think that if it was Gabriel, with his archangel powers, he would have just changed or broken the rules and skipped out.

It's also kind of confusing though because although on Supernatural Gabriel was using Loki's face and playing his role, he and Loki were not actually the same person. On the episode of Supernatural where you see the two of them together, Loki does not really act or speak like Gabriel. Yet in this episode Loki, with all his smugness and wisecracks and scarcasm, acts and sounds exactly like Gabriel, except maybe at the end when he gets trapped. So who knows. I think the show just wanted to bring back the character played by Richard Speight, without really examining the question of Loki or Gabriel too closely.

Still, I enjoyed Loki's scarcastic remarks -- I think my favorite was him telling Mary, "For someone your height, you're very loud." 😄 (Kind of a meta comment on the contrast between Mary's fierceness and how small the actress is!) I also liked the fairy tale type aspects of the story, like the singer having to chose the next person to sing to or else suffer the consequences himself, and also the Trickster being trapped in his own mirror. So even though I have to say that I had gotten really tired of the character of Gabriel on Supernatural, I enjoyed seeing the Trickster in this episode.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Bergamot

[tessathereaper]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Probably not a good sign I forgot all about this show until this episode turned up on my DVR.

It was fun seeing the Trickster again, but the stakes were pretty low, considering we know he survives to be on the OG.

That's the other thing, they changed who he was so many times I sort of forgot what they landed on in the end.

Have they said where John's father is? They keep mentioning him but I have no idea where he's supposed to be.

????  He's dead, they met his spirit a couple of episodes ago, he told them how to recharge the box.  It was a pretty big part of the episode.

As for Loki/Gabriel, In season 13 we found out that Gabriel and Loki made their deal for Gabriel to take over his persona in Ancient times, which means this must be Gabriel and he's probably faking because he is supposed to be keeping up Loki's persona, which is what he did his first appearances on SPN too.  I mean it's possible Loki is out there doing stuff too but he was supposed to be laying low so Odin, etc didn't find him.

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by tessathereaper

[Lastcall]

16 hours ago, BornToDie said:

I’m starting to wonder if people would actually watch this show without the involvement of Dean. Almost all the discourse surrounding this episode has been about Dean’s birthday, the photo, what is his magical mystery mission, stuff like that.  Who is this show really about, anyway?  And what does it say about the show when there seems to be more conversation about a character who shows up for two minutes here and there than the six main cast members? 

I was pretty checked out on the show until the photo. It's a very young inexperienced cast with a first time show runner and producer and it shows. Some of that is Pedowitz and his mandates. They have the passion, but they are so ham strung by outside forces that it's hard for them to get traction. It's a real bad sign when a guest star and re-occurring character have more chemistry then the "epic love story" the show is built around. 

Until Dean, the episode was pretty paint by the numbers for me. Instead of it feeling like they discovered a great story that needed a great singer, it felt like they went in thinking JoJo is a great singer...lets come up with a story around that and while we are at it, we can show how great a band Loudin Swain is...and we love Richard and what he did with the Trickster...why not do that again. 

Then there is Tom Welling. I just can't accept that his Samuel and Mitch Peliggi's version is the same character. They don't look similar or act the same at all. I would have a far easier time accepting him playing Henry Wichester over Samuel. I don't blame him; he is giving a great performance, but it makes me feel like I'm watching a reboot. 

All that being said, the few seconds of Dean was enough to completely invest me in the last five episodes. 

[PAForrest]

11 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I was confused about this too, whether this was supposed to be Loki or Gabriel. In either case, I don't think this was about making a contract for souls, but about playing a typical Trickster's cruel "game" with people, just for fun...

Since Loki was a Trickster demigod, and Gabriel took over his persona and was playing a Trickster, it still could be either one. I tend to think it was Loki, because he does get trapped at the end (the visual effect as he gets pulled into the mirror was pretty cool!) Loki was trapped by the "rules" of his game when he lost the game to Carlos; I think that if it was Gabriel, with his archangel powers, he would have just changed or broken the rules and skipped out.

...

Still, I enjoyed Loki's scarcastic remarks -- I think my favorite was him telling Mary, "For someone your height, you're very loud." 😄

I loved that line to Mary too. Hilarious!

I watched this episode again last night with a SPN friend, and we both think this iteration of the character was the real Loki, and not Gabriel having taken over the persona - at least, not yet. As you pointed out, there was no "just desserts" approach to the person(s) being targeted. It was cruelty for cruelty's sake. Then there's the way Carlos defeated the game - no one ever defeated the archangel, except Dean and Sam in Changing Channels when they finally figured out who he really was. This was different, and Loki legitimately looks to have been trapped. There was no after scene with him skipping out because he wasn't really Loki.

So this time I do think we were dealing with the demigod and not the archangel. Things are slightly out of whack from what we know in the OG 'verse, so it would make sense that Loki would be a different character too.

Edited January 27, 2023 by PAForrest

[FlickChick]

I enjoyed the episode quite a bit, and I'm a person who is no fan of Speight. But, he still portrayed his Loki just fine with his usual flamboyance. I'm impressed with Welling in his role of Samuel and as mentioned above, he has the no nonsense, gruff down pat. No, he doesn't look like OG Samuel, but I put that aside because this is not the OG show. In fact, we don't even know if this is our Dean, John or Mary; it could be a different universe.

I enjoyed Millie's interactions with Samuel - it added a little spice to the mix. I actually like all of the new characters - especially Carlos. JoJo is a good actor, IMO. 

I was surprised when we saw the picture of Dean at the end. It definitely adds some mystery to the show as to when, where or how is Dean in that picture? So I'm looking forward to seeing where the show takes us in the last episodes.

[iMonrey]

Quote

????  He's dead, they met his spirit a couple of episodes ago, he told them how to recharge the box.  It was a pretty big part of the episode.

Probably not a good sign I've already forgotten about that. 😉

How did he die?

[tessathereaper]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Probably not a good sign I've already forgotten about that. 😉

How did he die?

He died in Supernatural in the Season 8 episode As Time Goes By.  

[roamyn]

On 1/26/2023 at 4:17 PM, Lastcall said:

Then there is Tom Welling. I just can't accept that his Samuel and Mitch Peliggi's version is the same character. They don't look similar or act the same at all. I would have a far easier time accepting him playing Henry Wichester over Samuel. I don't blame him; he is giving a great performance, but it makes me feel like I'm watching a reboot

Thank you!

Samuel always wanted Mary in the business.  He was never worried for her safety.  He didn’t like John, since he wasn’t a hunter.  I mean he grudgingly liked him, as a civilian.  And he NEVER wore a hat.

But it was great seeing Dean, even if in a picture.  I wonder if he’ll show up in person at the end of the season?

[catrox14]

I thought Tom Welling did a good job of capturing some of Samuel's gruffness and hard edge. Was it exactly the same? No, but that's okay IMO. Were Matt Cohen and Jake Abel's Michael exactly the same? No but it still worked. Were Christian Key's and Jensen's Michael exactly the same? No, but the essence was there, much like Tom's version  of Samuel v Mitch Peleggi's. 

As to Samuel, wanting to keep Mary safe, I can believe it for this part of the story.

I can also see room for Samuel changing after all this much like John changed after Mary died. Even in this show we see John is already dealing with some emotional and mental health issues like what is now called PTSD. So him becoming the John we mostly saw in SPN doesn't strike me as a huge reach.

Maybe Samuel became a much harder man that didn't trust other hunters etc, between the John and Mary of this show and the John and Mary in ITB because of whatever happens with the Akrida.

[Lastcall]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I thought Tom Welling did a good job of capturing some of Samuel's gruffness and hard edge. Was it exactly the same? No, but that's okay IMO. Were Matt Cohen and Jake Abel's Michael exactly the same? No but it still worked. Were Christian Key's and Jensen's Michael exactly the same? No, but the essence was there, much like Tom's version  of Samuel v Mitch Peleggi's. 

As to Samuel, wanting to keep Mary safe, I can believe it for this part of the story.

I can also see room for Samuel changing after all this much like John changed after Mary died. Even in this show we see John is already dealing with some emotional and mental health issues like what is now called PTSD. So him becoming the John we mostly saw in SPN doesn't strike me as a huge reach.

Maybe Samuel became a much harder man that didn't trust other hunters etc, between the John and Mary of this show and the John and Mary in ITB because of whatever happens with the Akrida.

The whole thing strikes me as Robbie really wanting to do an Indiana Jones as a Hunter character. Thats a really great idea but we saw none of that in Mitch's version. Welling would have been a better fit as the uncle Sam referred to in season one of the old show. I know that would undermine everything Robbie wants, mirroring the search for John in the original and giving John and Mary something to bond over but he looks enough like Jared to pass as an uncle.

[MAK]

On 1/29/2023 at 9:52 PM, catrox14 said:

I thought Tom Welling did a good job of capturing some of Samuel's gruffness and hard edge. Was it exactly the same? No, but that's okay IMO. Were Matt Cohen and Jake Abel's Michael exactly the same? No but it still worked. Were Christian Key's and Jensen's Michael exactly the same? No, but the essence was there, much like Tom's version  of Samuel v Mitch Peleggi's.

They are playing Samuel at different points in time. Samuel in SPN was not shown prior to 1973. Sure we all compared Gumenick/Smith and Cohen/Morgan in how they played Mary and John, but again, they played those characters in different times. Things had happened in between, and mostly people were ok with the re-casting.

Pilleggi had to play a kind of obsessed father who was willing to work with demons, when Samuel was resurrected in S6.  That characateristic wasn't shown in the earlier S4 episode. I don't think anyone complained that "Samuel was OOC," because not much was shown about Samuel at that point. If we look to SPN for more details, there aren't any.

IMO, some people still look at The Winchesters as a "continuation" of SPN, but it's not. Being a "prequel," I think it's supposed to bring out things that are different and not in the original. It should be more like what Drake said in some interview or article, that he wants to play John so that it wouldn't be hard to see how John "ended up" being the way he was in SPN, played by JDM, not that he was going to play John like JDM did. Same could be said about Welling and Samuel. 

I didn't really think that Samuel was such a fan favorite that people would care that he was re-cast? Is it because Welling isn't bald? Would it have helped if he shaved his head?

[Aeryn13]

34 minutes ago, MAK said:

IMO, some people still look at The Winchesters as a "continuation" of SPN, but it's not. Being a "prequel," I think it's supposed to bring out things that are different and not in the original. It should be more like what Drake said in some interview or article, that he wants to play John so that it wouldn't be hard to see how John "ended up" being the way he was in SPN, played by JDM, not that he was going to play John like JDM did. Same could be said about Welling and Samuel. 

I think that`s a good point that every prequel runs into. And SPN had quite a bit of backstory explored already so it isn`t a totally blank space, making the breathing room even smaller. 

In a way I would compare it to Star Trek for some reason doing lots of prequels with its new shows and not only that but setting it within hair`s breath to an era that was featured in its very first TV iteration. Now I find one of those prequels far superior than the other and I can see that they are trying their damnedest to match up to what is known but if I`m completely honest, that is and will be impossible. You can`t match everything perfectly. 

Compared to the lol!canon snake eating itself in the entire last Seasons of SPN (where nothing made sense anymore and nothing matched up a hill of beans), I do think the Winchesters does a valiant job with it. Samuel in Season 6 was kinda like resurrected Mary, a horror job of a character, and I have to actively blink them out of my memory to even enjoy younger versions. So I`m taking new "memories" of an Indiana Jones-esque Samuel to overwrite the monstrosity of Season 6. They don`t match up? Thank God.        

[Myrelle]

Wow!

This one was great!!

And that ending!!!

Nothing would make me happier than to discover that Dean is on a heavenly mlssion from the new God to save all of Creation once again.

Even if they cancelled this show after just one season, I could be happy with that kind of an ending and the best part for me would be that AFAIC, Dabb could choke on the one that he tried to pawn off on us. 

 

 

 

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Does anyone have access to the translation of the Norse incantation? Loki implied that he made it up himself and that it was something funny.