Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023)

[Cress]

9 hours ago, Anela said:

So, was his wish to prevent the Vietnam war? I saw someone mention his son dying. 

No not to prevent the war. To convince his son not to enlist. Mutt enlisted because of an argument they had.

Quote

She wanted to steal it, to sell it on the black market, but then refused to let Indi stay in the past, because he would mess up the timeline

I don't think she believed it was a time travel device or that it would actually work. She thought it was just an interesting antique she could sell and make money from. But after fighting with the Nazis and seeing that it could actually work, that's when she worried about time travel. Plus I think she started to care about Indy and not want to abandon him.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Cress

[Morrigan2575]

13 hours ago, MrsR said:

Helena is what Indy was in Temple of Doom, in it for fortune and glory. But like Indy when push came to shove, her humanity rose to the top. She's his stand-in so to speak. 

I'm glad you mentioned that because this felt like Temple of Doom mixed with Raiders. Helena was less annoying than Willie but, Teddy was nowhere near as endearing as Short Round.

This movie was OK, I appreciate that Marion and Indy reunited. I hated that they killed Mutt off, offscreen.  I am one of the few that really liked Crystal Skull 😀

In order 1, 3, 4 (crazy right?) 2/5 tied for last

[Browncoat]

Aw, man, they got me at the end with Marion and Indy.  All the feels with the callback to the "where doesn't it hurt" scene from the first movie.

I had a good time watching -- so many Easter eggs, and lots of the best elements from the previous films.  Nazis, vehicle/horse chases, trains and tunnels, snakes (okay, eels), crazy arthropods in tunnels (not spiders, but still), a smart-ass woman (but at least this one wasn't completely useless like Willie, though not as endearing as Marion), smart kid, hidden messages in secret code, and old friends, especially Sallah surrounded by kids.  The bad guy was almost as effective as Belloq, but not quite.  No one can quite compare with Belloq, I don't think.

It didn't bother me in the slightest that Mutt died offscreen.  I got emotional along with Indy when he talked about where and when he'd go back in time, given the opportunity.

I was quite glad that Helena "convinced" Indy not to stay in the past.  Butterfly effect, y'all!  She was 100% correct, and Indy knew it.  He just didn't want to admit it.  Good on them for dragging him back to the plane.

[Fool to cry]

Just saw it . Definitely liked it more than Crystal Skull. Cried at the final scene. I'll talk more about it tomorrow. 

Just adding that the female CIA agent saying Indy was innocent let me know the government does too and that means Indy was cleared at the end.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Fool to cry

[Fool to cry]

Okay a big reason I liked the movie was it's level of sheer audaciousness which was missing from the last one.  I know that's weird when it has Indy surviving a nuclear explosion in a fridge, Shia swinging with monkeys and aliens but overall it felt they were playing it too safe and the result was a flat Indy movie with low energy. There was a joyful recklessness to the action in the first three that Crystal Skull lacked and Dial of Destiny brought back. I think it's because back in 2008 Ford was old but not too old to still do the action so the scenes were shot in a more restrained way. Like they wanted to show it was him doing the stunts but the stunts themselves couldn't be too dangerous. To put it this way KOTCS had all the ingredients but without any spice.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Fool to cry

[tv echo]

WEEKEND BOX OFFICE RESULTS: INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY WHIPS UP $60 MILLION OPENING
MEANWHILE, SPIDER-MAN: ACROSS THE SPIDER-VERSE CONTINUES TO HANG ON, AND THE FLASH FIZZLES EVEN FURTHER.
by Erik Childress | July 3, 2023 
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/weekend-box-office-results-indiana-jones-and-the-dial-of-destiny-whips-up-60-million-opening/ 

Quote

...  Despite early pans out of Cannes this year, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny came into this weekend at 67% with critics, $60 million with audiences in North America, another $70 million internationally, and a $295 million bill for the studio.
*  *  *
As late June releases go, Dial of Destiny mustered up the fifth-best live-action opening ever. Spielberg’s War of the Worlds opened to $64.8 million in this slot back in 2005, though projections have Dial of Destiny around $80-85 million through the July 4 holiday, which would already put it $15-20 million off the pace of Worlds. That still gives it some hope for a $200+ million finish. The problem is that the film finds itself in similar Fast X territory with that enormous budget, and it appeared doomed from the get-go unless it managed to pull off some kind of Top Gun: Maverick feat. It’s been 15 years since the last film, which has lived on in infamy, and the Cannes reviews helped put a black mark on it. Reviews since then have been mostly kinder, and audiences do seem to be enjoying it more. It received a B+ on Cinemascore (up from Crystal Skull’s B), even though that is still not the A of The Last Crusade.

The numbers will look better for theaters as it quickly becomes the fourth highest-grossing film of the summer, even if it will get knocked back just as quickly by Mission: Impossible and Barbie. However, it’s important to consider for a moment just how many films with an 80-year-old leading man or woman would have grossed as much as Dial of Destiny. Clint Eastwood was 78 when Gran Torino made $148 million and 88 when The Mule made $103 million. Dial of Destiny will outgross both of them. Movie stars, ladies and gentlemen.

Edited July 4, 2023 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

Now this was more like it! The time traveling stuff was a little…weird, but nowhere half as out of place as the alien bullshit in Crystal Skull, so I’ll allow it.

The de-aged sequence was better than I thought it would be. Still, it was a little jarring to hear Harrison Ford’s old voice come out of younger Harrison’s mouth.

Was not expecting Antonio. Aw but they killed him off. And I know I should be madder than the CIA agent was disposed so easily, but you lie with rats, you get fleas.

I loved Phoebe as Helena. She was tons of fun. “Sorry pal, but…you’re a Nazi!” Ha! Did like her Short Round dynamic with Teddy.

I’m sorry, were people actually mad that Indy didn’t die in the past like he wanted? Because IMO that would have been ten times more horrible than the way we lost Han Solo—I’m still not over that by a long shot. Speaking of which, I have to say it: if I had a nickel for every movie where Harrison Ford splits from his wife because they lost their son, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t that much but it’s weird it’s happened twice. Look I didn’t hate Mutt…I hated that whole “Indy left Marion at the altar and she didn’t tell him she was pregnant” bullshit. It was so OOC, and I’m sure there was a better way to do it. Hell, this movie would work if you pretended Crystal Skull never happened at all, just assuming Indy and Marion got married and had a kid between Last Crusade and this movie.

But man, I was happy to see Marion at the end. Karen Allen looks great (screw the sexist ageist asshole that said she looked “unrecognizable”). And Sallah! All that was missing was Ke Huy Quan’s Short Round—the filmmakers really missed an opportunity for a cameo.

All in all, I enjoyed it. It felt more like the spirit of the first three movies. So if this was a second chance for the franchise to bow out gracefully, it worked.

[Anela]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

But man, I was happy to see Marion at the end. Karen Allen looks great (screw the sexist ageist asshole that said she looked “unrecognizable”). And Sallah! All that was missing was Ke Huy Quan’s Short Round—the filmmakers really missed an opportunity for a cameo.

All in all, I enjoyed it. It felt more like the spirit of the first three movies. So if this was a second chance for the franchise to bow out gracefully, it worked.

I recognized her right away, and told dad that she still looks really pretty.

I didn't want him to stay in the past. I liked the ending. 

[Fool to cry]

I know there are probably those who thought Mads should have died a grislier death like previous villains but seeing this smug Nazi scientist realize his years of planning turned out to be a collossal waste because he didn't account for one crucial thing was satisfying enough for me.

[tv echo]

Dial of Destiny director James Mangold didn't want to be the one to kill Harrison Ford's Indiana Jones
By Lauren Huff    July 02, 2023 
https://ew.com/movies/dial-of-destiny-harrison-ford-james-mangold-killing-indiana-jones/ 

Quote

"How could I have done that?"

This is what Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny director and co-writer James Mangold says emphatically when EW thanks him for not continuing in the recent Hollywood tradition of bringing back iconic characters only to kill them off.
*  *  *
Mangold says that he and his fellow co-writers, brothers John-Henry and Jez Butterworth, never discussed if Indiana Jones should die. "Honestly, I enjoy that people were so atwitter about it, because to me, there really is no attraction to just getting thousands of people in a theater and hitting them in a head with a hammer... Death is not an ending. ...."

"But," he continues, "for Indiana Jones, it isn't about him dying. It had to be about him coming to terms with this period of his life and this period of the world. And in a way, coming to terms with whether Indiana Jones has relevance to ours."
*  *  *
For his part, Ford confirms he and and the film's creatives never had serious discussions about his character's death "because the script came out, and it didn't have Indiana Jones dying, so we didn't really need to talk about it." However, he says, "It came up in conversation a few times, and [Mangold] said he didn't want to be the one to kill me."
*  *  *
"I think it's a good choice to leave him in the condition we see him at the end of the film," says Ford. "Most of his problems have been solved, dealt with. He's back to the form that we like to see him in, I think. And I think it's a wonderful last scene... I really like it."

Edited July 5, 2023 by tv echo

[Spartan Girl]

I do wish Marion had a bigger role in the movie. Karen Allen said as much in her interview. Like there's no way she didn't see the news about Indy being wanted for murder and know something was up. It wouldn't surprise me if she called Sallah not long after he helped him to find out what was going on...

[Fool to cry]

22 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I do wish Marion had a bigger role in the movie. Karen Allen said as much in her interview. Like there's no way she didn't see the news about Indy being wanted for murder and know something was up. It wouldn't surprise me if she called Sallah not long after he helped him to find out what was going on...

But I think in the scenes she did have she was used correctly. The Marion and Indy scenes  felt off in Crystal SKULL because they were trying to make it comedic when they're interactions in RAIDERS were mostly serious. When I saw them get married I kind of shrugged. When I saw them reunited at the end of DIAL I got choked up. And the recreation of the "Where doesn't it hurt" scene from RAIDERS? Brilliant. 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Fool to cry

[Morrigan2575]

On 7/5/2023 at 12:27 AM, Anela said:

I recognized her right away, and told dad that she still looks really pretty.

I didn't want him to stay in the past. I liked the ending. 

I don't get anyone saying she was unrecognizable. I swear even her top reminded me of the top she wore walking around Egypt in Raiders.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't get anyone saying she was unrecognizable. I swear even her top reminded me of the top she wore walking around Egypt in Raiders.

It was some sexist ageist asshole on Twitter (back when I could still read anything without an account) who promptly got his ass handed to him by people that said Karen, in addition to looking great, is one of the nicest actresses they’ve ever met.

[oliviabenson]

I wish this movie was shorter! Other than that I enjoyed it a lot!

 

[AgathaC]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It was some sexist ageist asshole on Twitter (back when I could still read anything without an account) who promptly got his ass handed to him by people that said Karen, in addition to looking great, is one of the nicest actresses they’ve ever met.

Ugh. It’s like the people who complained she was too old for Crystal Skull. She’s nine years younger than Harrison Ford. It’s utterly ridiculous that we live in a world where she would be deemed too old.

I recall an interview with Ford where he said she was the nicest, easiest person he ever worked with. (Or at least close to it.)

[tv echo]

Big Budgets, Big Headaches: Why ‘Indiana Jones 5’ and ‘Mission: Impossible 7’ are Struggling to Make a Profit
By Rebecca Rubin, Brent Lang, Matt Donnelly    Aug 15, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/indiana-jones-5-mission-impossible-7-box-office-flops-explained-1235690262/ 

Quote

... Instead, both films are among the summer’s most baffling disappointments, and much of that has to do with their outsized budgets.

“Indy 5,” which opened in late June, has grossed $375 million globally after six weeks of release, while “M:I 7,” which debuted in July, has generated $523 million after five weeks of release. Those ticket sales are respectable in the current moviegoing landscape, especially because the films are part of decades-old properties aimed at older audiences.

The trouble is that each sequel cost roughly $300 million before marketing spends of at least $100 million, making them among the most expensive movies of all time. After falling short of expectations, they could lose nearly $100 million in their theatrical runs, according to sources familiar with the financials of similar productions.
*  *  *
“There’s an opportunity to make money back with streaming and other sales, but that’s long into the future. It’s playing the long game instead of the short game,” says Jeff Bock, an analyst with Exhibitor Relations. “They don’t want to be profitable in 25 years.”
*  *  *
But movies like “Mission: Impossible” and “Indiana Jones” are designed to generate windfalls on the order of $100 million. After all, the prior “Indiana Jones” adventure, 2008’s “Kingdom of the Crystal Skull,” pulled in $790 million globally and remains the franchise’s highest-grossing film, not adjusted for inflation. The previous “Mission: Impossible” entry, 2018’s “Fallout,” earned a series-best $791 million, while “Top Gun: Maverick,” which introduced a new generation to Cruise’s penchant for captivating, death-defying stunts, toppled the billion-dollar mark in 2022.

Edited August 23, 2023 by tv echo

[SlovakPrincess]

Harrison Ford: good!  Chase scenes: good!  Story: ... weird? but interesting?  A tad too depressing for my taste in parts, especially the back story on Indy's son (I guess they really didn't want to bring back Shia Lebouf for some reason) - but interesting.

HOWEVER.  Whyyyyyyyy did they make Helena so insufferable?  I just do not like this character.  And it really shouldn't have been hard to create a sympathetic, interesting character out of someone who watched her father drive himself mad, is still bitter about it, and who's also upset Indy wasn't there for her as father figure (although he's been going through some tragedies of his own that she barely seemed to care about).  But she's just smirky and cynical for so much of the movie.  Blah.

Also - needed more Marion!!

Edited September 9, 2023 by SlovakPrincess

[Fool to cry]

14 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Harrison Ford: good!  Chase scenes: good!  Story: ... weird? but interesting?  A tad too depressing for my taste in parts, especially the back story on Indy's son (I guess they really didn't want to bring back Shia Lebouf for some reason) - but interesting.

HOWEVER.  Whyyyyyyyy did they make Helena so insufferable?  I just do not like this character.  And it really shouldn't have been hard to create a sympathetic, interesting character out of someone who watched her father drive himself mad, is still bitter about it, and who's also upset Indy wasn't there for her as father figure (although he's been going through some tragedies of his own that she barely seemed to care about).  But she's just smirky and cynical for so much of the movie.  Blah.

Also - needed more Marion!!

Unless they're villains audiences hate female characters that make things difficult for the main character. Even if they do help at the end they aren't forgiven for spending most of the time being a hindrance. Helena and Willie being examples.

I think it was important to the story for Helena to be a big problem to Indy.  He was in such a funk that only her brazen amorality could get him out of it. His scolding and guilt tripping throughout and just being a parent without her asking  having to ask for it is what changed her and better than having an emotional scene IMO.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Fool to cry

[SlovakPrincess]

3 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Unless they're villains audiences hate female characters that make things difficult for the main character. Even if they do help at the end they aren't forgiven for spending most of the time being a hindrance. Helena and Willie being examples.

I think it was important to the story for Helena to be a big problem to Indy.  He was in such a funk that only her brazen amorality could get him out of it. His scolding and guilt tripping throughout and just being a parent without her asking  having to ask for it is what changed her and better than having an emotional scene IMO.

Yeah I get what they're going for with this character and it doesn't work for me.  And not because she's a female character hindering Indy.  She's written in an annoyingly obvious way with unsubtle "clever" dialogue and I don't think the actress gives her any depth.  

Phoebe Waller Bridge worked great in Fleabag - a show with enough time to explore how a character's brash show of confidence is really masking deep hurts.  That's what they're going for here, I assume, with the smug facade and sad dead father backstory (and grudge against Indy), but it's rushed and done poorly.     

[Fool to cry]

2 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Yeah I get what they're going for with this character and it doesn't work for me.  And not because she's a female character hindering Indy.  She's written in an annoyingly obvious way with unsubtle "clever" dialogue and I don't think the actress gives her any depth.  

Phoebe Waller Bridge worked great in Fleabag - a show with enough time to explore how a character's brash show of confidence is really masking deep hurts.  That's what they're going for here, I assume, with the smug facade and sad dead father backstory (and grudge against Indy), but it's rushed and done poorly.     

That's the benefits of an episodic TV show where she's the protagonist who can break the 4th wall and confide to the audience over a 2 and a half hour movie where she's a supporting character who can't! 

The jokes and clever lines might have been obvious and been unsubtle but her change of heart and growing sympathy towards Indy was for some viewers.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Fool to cry

[SlovakPrincess]

Just now, Fool to cry said:

That's the benefits of an episodic TV show where she's the protagonist who can break the 4th wall and confide to the audience over a 2 and a half hour movie where she's a supporting character who can't! 

The jokes and clever lines might have been obvious and not been subtle but her growing change of heart and sympathy towards Indy was for some viewers.

Well, yeah.  They didn't have all the time in the world to round out this character and show us her innermost thoughts ... so cut down on the smug one liners and give her more depth earlier in the movie.  

And tonally it's just weird because instead of bantering between her and Indy with a few heartfelt discussions thrown in ... he's mostly depressed and she's mostly glib (even when it makes her look heartless, like needling him about being wanted for the murder of his innocent colleagues and after Antonio Banderas and crew, who were all really nice to her and Teddy, die horribly).    

I will say they finally get a great action movie buddy moment when she's hanging off the plane about to fall and he's like "what are you doing?!" and she goes "rescuing you!" (right before she does, indeed, shoot the bad guy).   That's fun!  That works!  I'm finally enjoying her, and these characters together!  ... ten minutes before the movie ends!

[Fool to cry]

 

On 9/9/2023 at 5:55 PM, SlovakPrincess said:

Well, yeah.  They didn't have all the time in the world to round out this character and show us her innermost thoughts ... so cut down on the smug one liners and give her more depth earlier in the movie.  

And tonally it's just weird because instead of bantering between her and Indy with a few heartfelt discussions thrown in ... he's mostly depressed and she's mostly glib (even when it makes her look heartless, like needling him about being wanted for the murder of his innocent colleagues and after Antonio Banderas and crew, who were all really nice to her and Teddy, die horribly).    

I will say they finally get a great action movie buddy moment when she's hanging off the plane about to fall and he's like "what are you doing?!" and she goes "rescuing you!" (right before she does, indeed, shoot the bad guy).   That's fun!  That works!  I'm finally enjoying her, and these characters together!  ... ten minutes before the movie ends!

Yeah it would have been nice if they were that way from the beginning but I don't think Indy would have wanted to stay in the past if he had connected with her so fast.

Just watched a 1968 Ironside episode on one of the nostalgic comfort channels and it has that hilarious Hollywood depiction of Hippies where they talk like Beatniks and are in bad wigs. Made me think how if DoD had actually been made in 1969, Helena would look more Haight Ashbury than Carnaby Street with long, unbrushed hair, say "groovy" a lot, take LSD and call Indy a "square" who needs to "get with it". Indy would lecture her like he's Jack Webb on DRAGNET and in the end after she had the change of heart be dressed in conservative hair and clothes looking like one of Nixon's daughters!

Edited September 13, 2023 by Fool to cry

[BetterButter]

 

[SlovakPrincess]

I watched this again with my young nephew (he liked the chase scenes and still loves Indiana ... he was baffled by the plot, the movie was way too long for him, and he wanted more Salah - join the club, kid!).

On rewatch, I still really enjoyed Harrison Ford.  It's a genuinely great performance though its impact gets diluted because the movie is Too. Damn. Long.  And unfocused.  It feels like the movie was written by committee and patched together, so the story and themes never really make sense.  

First, the theme of the aging hero.  Hollywood apparently has no idea how to tackle this topic, so we get these unpleasant extremes -- Indy has to be depressed, crotchety and literally see no value in his life anymore ... until it's time for him to run around and take even more violent punches to the face than he got in some of the earlier movies.  All other old characters must be sidelined (they actually put a gray wig on Karen Allen, a grocery bag in her arms and cut her from most of the story, and they have Salah wanting to help out but flatly told no -- these were choices made by the writers to emphasize age, as though older people who aren't Indy can't still travel, drive fast cars or pilot a plane, or help decipher clues, as if Salah and Marion wouldn't still have some helpful connections around the world, etc.  Dumb!!  Insulting!)

There could be some good story to be mined from Indy accepting he can't do the things he used to do, and has to lean on other skills.  The movie flatly refuses to do so in a way that makes sense.  An 80-year old man could still be studying history and even overseeing archeological digs ... and that might have been a nice last shot for the film, showing Indy re-engaging with his career with Marion visiting him onsite or working alongside him.  Neither of them seem like the type to enjoy a quiet retirement, anyway. 

Second, the allure of time travel or changing the past.  If they were going to explore this (with both Indy and Voller) ... then commit to it.  Indy mentions for 2 seconds using the dial to go back and save his son ... but later he doesn't even consider it as an option when he has the whole dial.  On rewatch, I better appreciated Mikkelsen's performance and the idea of Voller wanting a re-do of WWII, but this villain and his motivation get lost in an overlong movie.  And we don't get an explanation of what Indy thinks he'll achieve by staying in the past (bleeding profusely, in the middle of an epic battle) with Archimedes -- Helena punching him to get him home was heroic for her, but it in no way makes sense  of or resolves Indy's inner conflict.  

Again, this is my issue with blockbuster movies these days.  Overlong while somehow still feeling rushed and skating over the surface of issues that could be interesting if someone bothered to focus the narrative.  

(Also what the hell was the point of the CIA stuff?  Cut all that out if it's not going to go anywhere.)

Edited September 16, 2023 by SlovakPrincess

[kiddo82]

7 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I watched this again with my young nephew (he liked the chase scenes and still loves Indiana ... he was baffled by the plot, the movie was way too long for him, and he wanted more Salah - join the club, kid!).

On rewatch, I still really enjoyed Harrison Ford.  It's a genuinely great performance though its impact gets diluted because the movie is Too. Damn. Long.  And unfocused.  It feels like the movie was written by committee and patched together, so the story and themes never really make sense.  

First, the theme of the aging hero.  Hollywood apparently has no idea how to tackle this topic, so we get these unpleasant extremes -- Indy has to be depressed, crotchety and literally see no value in his life anymore ... until it's time for him to run around and take even more violent punches to the face than he got in some of the earlier movies.  All other old characters must be sidelined (they actually put a gray wig on Karen Allen, a grocery bag in her arms and cut her from most of the story, and they have Salah wanting to help out but flatly told no -- these were choices made by the writers to emphasize age, as though older people who aren't Indy can't still travel, drive fast cars or pilot a plane, or help decipher clues, as if Salah and Marion wouldn't still have some helpful connections around the world, etc.  Dumb!!  Insulting!)

There could be some good story to be mined from Indy accepting he can't do the things he used to do, and has to lean on other skills.  The movie flatly refuses to do so in a way that makes sense.  An 80-year old man could still be studying history and even overseeing archeological digs ... and that might have been a nice last shot for the film, showing Indy re-engaging with his career with Marion visiting him onsite or working alongside him.  Neither of them seem like the type to enjoy a quiet retirement, anyway. 

Second, the allure of time travel or changing the past.  If they were going to explore this (with both Indy and Voller) ... then commit to it.  Indy mentions for 2 seconds using the dial to go back and save his son ... but later he doesn't even consider it as an option when he has the whole dial.  On rewatch, I better appreciated Mikkelsen's performance and the idea of Voller wanting a re-do of WWII, but this villain and his motivation get lost in an overlong movie.  And we don't get an explanation of what Indy thinks he'll achieve by staying in the past (bleeding profusely, in the middle of an epic battle) with Archimedes -- Helena punching him to get him home was heroic for her, but it in no way makes sense  of or resolves Indy's inner conflict.  

Again, this is my issue with blockbuster movies these days.  Overlong while somehow still feeling rushed and skating over the surface of issues that could be interesting if someone bothered to focus the narrative.

(Also what the hell was the point of the CIA stuff?  Cut all that out if it's not going to go anywhere.)

Emphasis mine.

 

That's a really good analysis of the flaws of the movie.  I thought it was okay for what it was but you articulated exactly why I felt like I was at arm's length throughout.  I remember a video review from when the movie first came out about the Tuk Tuk scene.  I think the reviewer said something like one of the writers had said he wanted to do the Tuk Tuk chase and was happy to work on a project where he wasn't told "no."  The reviewed said "Maybe someone should have told him 'no'."  Obviously the flaw of the movie isn't the chase scene but it's emblematic of the bigger issue.  Too much time and money spent on the sizzle when you don't have any steak.  That's why these movies cost so much money and why it's so hard for them to even make their budget back.

[SlovakPrincess]

16 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

The reviewed said "Maybe someone should have told him 'no'."  Obviously the flaw of the movie isn't the chase scene but it's emblematic of the bigger issue.  Too much time and money spent on the sizzle when you don't have any steak.  That's why these movies cost so much money and why it's so hard for them to even make their budget back.

That is an excellent point -- the studio creates this situation with a bloated budget and wanting to do everything at once, and then they call the movie a failure because it simultaneously needs big audiences while actively pushing movie fans away (with a crazy long run time and unsatisfying story).  And, because they've already decided it will be expensive, there's an impulse to keep adding MORE - more chases, moree scenes, more CGI!  We've already committed to a blockbuster so it needs to be MORE!  Somehow a cohesive story never gets considered in all of this.  

It's not a creative failure, it was worth watching for Harrison Ford, but it definitely should have been a lot better.  The financial failure of the film was an inevitable, self-created problem.

Edited September 16, 2023 by SlovakPrincess

[Fool to cry]

The Tuktuk chase was my favorite part! The fact that it was longer than you expect and got crazier and more dangerous is what I love about it. I thought the last movie felt too safe. I like that they went all out and big for the final one.

On 9/16/2023 at 6:05 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

First, the theme of the aging hero.  Hollywood apparently has no idea how to tackle this topic, so we get these unpleasant extremes -- Indy has to be depressed, crotchety and literally see no value in his life anymore ... until it's time for him to run around and take even more violent punches to the face than he got in some of the earlier movies.  All other old characters must be sidelined (they actually put a gray wig on Karen Allen, a grocery bag in her arms and cut her from most of the story, and they have Salah wanting to help out but flatly told no -- these were choices made by the writers to emphasize age, as though older people who aren't Indy can't still travel, drive fast cars or pilot a plane, or help decipher clues, as if Salah and Marion wouldn't still have some helpful connections around the world, etc.  Dumb!!  Insulting!)

There could be some good story to be mined from Indy accepting he can't do the things he used to do, and has to lean on other skills.  The movie flatly refuses to do so in a way that makes sense.  An 80-year old man could still be studying history and even overseeing archeological digs ... and that might have been a nice last shot for the film, showing Indy re-engaging with his career with Marion visiting him onsite or working alongside him.  Neither of them seem like the type to enjoy a quiet retirement, anyway. 

If Indy had been 10 years younger he would have dealt with Mutt's death by going on another  adventure and tried to forget his feelings by focusing on finding artifacts like he did after his dad and Marcus died. Since he's too old to do that now he had no choice but to wallow in depression and think about his regrets. What I appreciated was while one adventure won't make his pain go away he was able to show he cares for someone even if she doesn't make it easy or deserve it because that's what a parent has to do.

[tv echo]

[Cress]

Finally it's on Disney+, with all the other Indy stuff. I hoped that Disney would include behind the scenes featurettes in the Extras, but nope. However, there's a separate 1 hour thing called Timeless Heroes that discusses the entire history of Indiana Jones; it features interviews with cast and crew from most of the movies, but does have a bunch of stuff from Dial of Destiny. They even mention the Young Indiana Jones TV show.

[tv echo]

 

(Disney Plus)

[benteen]

I thought it was an entertaining film, better than the review indicated. I would say the same thing about Indy 5 thatI have said about yge new Frasier. Entertaining but not something I would watch again. Whatever the flaws, I could watch Kingdom of the Crstal Skull again. I don't think I'd watch Dial of Destiny again.

Some very good action and chases, particularly the one in Morocco. Some creativeness in there. Underwater sequence I liked too. I love that they decided to time travel to the siege of Syracuse. Harrison Ford is as good as ever as Indy.

Issues...I HATED that they killed Mutt. Not that I'm a Shia LeBeouf fan and I know he wasn't coming back but I hated that they killed Indy and Marion's son. It set a depressing tone throughout. Harrison Ford said something that made no sense a while back, that he wasn't happy with how he left the character after Crystal Skull. I found this odd as Indy is left in a very happy and good place at the end of that film. Ford claimed he liked rhe last movie but I suspect he either didn't or wasn't happy with how it wss received. In any case, the happy ending for Indy and Marion was wiped away for the bittersweet one we got here. It left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I remember someone posting on a message board a few months after Crystal Skull came out and Shia had trashed the movie "I guess Mutt's going to die in Vietnam." I remember posting that I thought Mutt was born early enough to avoid getting drafted. I wss wrong on that one.

I definitely would have liked to have seen more of Karen Allen. John Rhys-Davies was disappointed at not being in the last film and more than made up for it as he is terrific in his limited time and should have been with Indy in Morocco. Helena was unsympathetic as hell, I couldn't believe just how much. They wanted audiences to like this character? Teddy is no Short Round but I was glad he hung around. Mads made an interesting villain despite the nonsensical CIA plot and his backstory not being better explored. Toby Jones is always terrific and I enjoyed the flashbacks. Antonio Bandares was wasted in the movie.

Crystal Skull had way too much CGI for a franchise that always relied on location shooting. I'm not anti-CGI but one of the great crimes CGI has committed is it's hard to know what is CGI at times and what isn't when us comes to outdoor scenes. Diak REALLY goes overboard on the CGI and you can see how the budget got so bloated.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by benteen

[revbfc]

Much better than CS, but it could have been tightened up in the editing.

I will admit that I got worried for a little while when I thought the twist was going to be Indy having to save Hitler, but was relieved to find out that it was just an old man finally getting a chance to use his dead language skills.

[Cress]

On 12/3/2023 at 6:56 PM, benteen said:

I remember posting that I thought Mutt was born early enough to avoid getting drafted. I wss wrong on that one.

Well according to Indy, he wasn't drafted to Vietnam. He enlisted voluntarily to piss off his father. I actually found the chase scene in Morocco and the underwater scene too long. If those had been edited down, I wound have enjoyed the movie a lot better.

Watching it again, I thought the whole subplot of Indy being framed for murder stupid. He's the one who called in the dead bodies at the college, and he told one police officer at the parade, who must have seen the other officer get punched out. There's TV footage from the parade of Indy being chased by the Nazi on motorcycle, and there would have been plenty of witnesses of him riding the horse through the subway too. Why would police think he's the killer and not an innocent being chased by villains? Unless the CIA was trying to cover up all the deaths by framing Indy? But it's a very sloppy framing. We don't even learn how it was all fixed after Helena brought Indy back home. Did Marion and Sallah help?

[DoctorAtomic]

I watched the movie on D+. I liked the concept, but I agree it was a little long. I did like he twist that Voller wanted to kill Hitler. 

It was fitting that they ended Indy's adventures with Nazi foes. And crazy chase sequences. 

They had a big German goon, a big plane with propellers and nothing? Come on. 

I thought they might have let Indy die, but I don't think leaving him in the past would have been a good idea. 

 

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny got 1 nomination from the Set Decorators Society of America for its SDSA Film Awards 2023...

https://www.setdecorators.org/sites/setdecorators/pdf/2023_SDSA_Awards_Film_Press_Release_Nominations_Annoucement_1-5-24.pdf 

Quote

SDSA AWARDS FILM 2023 NOMINATIONS ANNOUNCED

LOS ANGELES, January 5, 2024—The Set Decorators Society of America, An International Organization, announces the nominations for the SDSA Awards Film 2023, celebrating excellence in the art of Set Decoration for films released in 2023, selected from four (4) categories.
*  *  *
Best Achievement in Décor/Design of a Fantasy or Science Fiction Film
BARBIE
Set Decoration by Katie Spencer SDSA with Production Design by Sarah Greenwood
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 3
Set Decoration by Rosemary Brandenburg SDSA with Production Design by Beth Mickle
THE HUNGER GAMES: THE BALLAD OF SONGBIRDS & SNAKES
Set Decoration by Sabine Schaaf with Production Design by Uli Hanisch
INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY
Set Decoration by Anna Pinnock with Production Design by Adam Stockhausen
WONKA
Set Decoration by Lee Sandales with Production Design by Nathan Crowley

Edited January 7 by tv echo

[Sandman]

On 6/30/2023 at 12:04 AM, SeanC said:

All that said, when assessing this series as a whole: Raiders of the Lost Ark was cinematic lightning in a bottle, a true classic. Every subsequent entry, setting aside nostalgia goggles, has not approached that level. Dial of Destiny is not a great film, but I think it sits comfortably enough in the canon and serves as an amiable ending for Indy. Say a 3.5 out of 5, probably a shade generous, but good fun.

This sums up my feelings pretty much exactly. I don't mind telling you, though, that when Marion finally showed up on screen, I sobbed like a baby. (Maybe Chekov's Divorce Papers should have been a clue? Likely. Does that make me a sucker? Don't really care.) The reunion scene alone was worth the limitations of the rest, maybe even bumps it up to to a 4 out of 5 for me.

Edited to add: I assume that the "Indy wakes up to a noisy neighbour" repetition-slash-return scene meant that he was returned to a point before the murders actually happened (admittedly I haven't thought about this too hard).

It was nice to see Sallah again; John Rhys-Davis always makes things better.

 

 

Edited January 8 by Sandman

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny got 1 nomination for SAG Awards...

Nominations Announced for the 30th Annual Screen Actors Guild Awards®
The SAG Awards® Ceremony will Stream Live Globally Saturday, Feb. 24 Only on Netflix
January 10, 2024
https://www.sagawards.org/media/news/releases/nominations-announced-30th-annual-screen-actors-guild-awardsr

Quote

The Stunt Ensemble Honors Nominees are: 
Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture
BARBIE
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY VOL. 3
INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY
JOHN WICK: CHAPTER 4
MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE - DEAD RECKONING PART ONE

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny got 2 nominations for VES Awards...

‘Oppenheimer,’ ‘Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse,’ ‘The Last of Us’ Among Visual Effects Society Awards Nominees
By Diego Ramos Bechara    Jan 16, 2024
https://variety.com/2024/artisans/news/visual-effects-society-awards-nominees-2024-complete-list-1235873314/ 

Quote

Awards will be presented at the 22nd Annual VES Awards on Feb. 21 at The Beverly Hilton Hotel in Los Angeles. 
*  *  *
OUTSTANDING VISUAL EFFECTS IN A PHOTOREAL FEATURE 

“Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves” 
...

“Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3” 
...

“Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny” 
... 

“Oppenheimer” 
...

“The Creator” 
...
OUTSTANDING CREATED ENVIRONMENT IN A PHOTOREAL FEATURE 

“Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3”; Knowhere 
...

“Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny”; Underwater Wreck Environment 
...

“John Wick: Chapter 4”; Place de L’Étoile 
...

“The Creator”; Floating Village 
...

Edited January 17 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny got 2 nominations for Golden Raspberry (Razzie) Awards (which honor the worst of the year)...

Razzie Awards: ‘Expend4bles’ Leads Nominations
BY KIMBERLY NORDYKE    JANUARY 22, 2024 
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/razzie-awards-nominations-2024-full-list-1235803012/ 

Quote

Noms were selected in nine categories by Razzie voters, comprising “1,179 movie buffs, film critics and journalists from 49 U.S. states and two dozen foreign countries.” The “winners” of the 44th annual Razzies will be announced March 9, the night before the Oscars.
*  *  *
WORST PREQUEL, REMAKE, RIP-OFF or SEQUEL
Ant Man & The Wasp: Quantumania
The Exorcist: Believer
Expend4bles
Indiana Jones and The Dial of … Still Beating a Dead Horse
Winnie the Pooh: Blood and Honey
*  *  *
WORST SCREENPLAY
The Exorcist: Believer
Expend4bles
Indiana Jones and the Dial of … Can I go home now?
Shazam! Fury of the Gods
Winnie the Pooh: Blood & Honey

Edited January 23 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny got 1 nomination for Oscar Awards...

Oscar nominations 2024: See the full list
By Lisa Respers France    January 23, 2024
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/23/entertainment/oscar-nominations-2024/index.html

Quote

The Oscars will take place on March 10, hosted for a fourth time by Jimmy Kimmel.
*  *  *
Best original score
“American Fiction”
“Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny”
“Killers of the Flower Moon”
“Oppenheimer”
“Poor Things”

[tv echo]

Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny won 3 Saturn Awards...

"Avatar: The Way Of Water’, ‘Oppenheimer’, ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Among Winners At Saturn Awards
By Patrick Hipes    Feb 5, 2024
https://deadline.com/2024/02/2024-saturn-awards-winners-list-1235815080/ 

Quote

BEST FANTASY FILM
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
*  *  *
BEST ACTOR IN A FILM
Harrison Ford (Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny)
*  *  *
BEST FILM MUSIC
Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (John Williams)

Edited February 6 by tv echo