Spoilers And Speculations: Or Where We Do *Not* Complain About Canon

[Meredith Quill]

Your Spoilers And Speculation Topic!

[Casseiopeia]

[Casseiopeia]

This tweet makes it seem like he is going to have a good sized role....

[Nick24]

Is that a train in the background?

More new images:

https://www.nerdsandbeyond.com/2022/09/26/the-winchesters-additional-images-released-for-season-1-episode-1-pilot/

Edited September 27, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

I keep thinking about Abaddon's factories. Henry is coming back, and he knew about them. Mary's father was hunting demons. Here is some map Mary is looking at:

Maybe they are investigating something about missing people and Samuel got kidnapped by those demons, too. That is why they might need Henry. Maybe John wants to know what Henry's last case was and here it is. And this is how they might find the connection between Samuel and Henry, and this is how they could save the world by stopping the demons. Well, of course, this is going to be much more complicated. So many ways to tell the story. I totally get why Robbie is so excited about that.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Nick24

[Nick24]

Synopsis for Episode 2 ''Teach Your Children Well''

Quote

FAMILY MATTERS – John (Drake Rodger) and Millie (Bianca Kajlich) are on different pages about his new interest in hunting and Ada (Demetria McKinney) tries to bridge the gap. Mary (Meg Donnelly) follows a trail from her father that points to the disappearance of a teenage boy in Topeka. Meanwhile, Carlos (JoJo Fleites) has a heart to heart with Mary as Latika (Nida Khurshid) dives into her books to identify the monster. John Showalter directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson & David H. Goodman (#102).

[MAK]

There is so much talk about angels, specifically Castiel, showing up. Of course there is going to be some sort of Heavenly interference. But, when people keep referring to Jensen and Danneel's cryptic comments, "TBD" and "stay tuned," doesn't it make more sense that the angel involved in putting Dean on this mission be Anael, played by Danneel? I mean she's already right there.  I don't have any feelings, positive or negative, for using Anael. Seems to be a given that some angelic shenanigans are going to happen, so why not her? 

In SPN, she stayed out Chuck's way and was not really shown as having met a final end like the four archangels and Castiel.  When she saw what was happening after they tried to get the Occultum from her, she could have time traveled to the past to save herself. Why she would want to tell Dean about his parents would be something beyond my imagination.

I've read that they don't really tell us anything in the Pilot, and the how and why will be a developing story. 

[Nick24]

47 minutes ago, MAK said:

In SPN, she stayed out Chuck's way and was not really shown as having met a final end like the four archangels and Castiel.  

Castiel is alive, isn't he? He was helping Jackie Sue with their new Heaven. 

[tessathereaper]

Great interview with Drake

https://www.ksitetv.com/winchesters/winchesters-drake-rodger-on-playing-john-jensen-ackles-supernatural-more/232165/

[MAK]

23 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Castiel is alive, isn't he? He was helping Jackie Sue with their new Heaven. 

I'm kind of hoping that the timeline for Dean is not post 15.20. I know, the Pilot is showing him looking his age. But, still hoping.

[Nick24]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:11 PM, MAK said:

I'm kind of hoping that the timeline for Dean is not post 15.20. I know, the Pilot is showing him looking his age. But, still hoping.

I've been thinking about the timeline, and this is really hard to come up with any option for this not to be post 15.20. But Dean's wearing another shirt in the Pilot. I was also wondering about the train. Are there trains in Heaven? I'm not denying, but this seems a little weird. Could it mean something?

Do we know exactly how much time there was between 15.03/15.04 or 15.04/15.05? They thought Chuck was gone, so Dean might have wanted to figure out how much of their lives was Chuck's crap and thus learn more about their parents. As for Sam, well, Sam might have wanted to try to go to college again. So, they went separate ways. Or maybe Dean didn't tell Sam anything about that mission and went off on his own. At the end of 15.04 Sam said that he couldn't even breathe. This is why Dean might have decided to do it alone and then Dean could come back with the true story about Mary/John and that could let Sam breathe again.😄

Edited October 3, 2022 by Nick24

[Casseiopeia]

22 hours ago, Nick24 said:

They thought Chuck was gone, so Dean might have wanted to figure out how much of their lives was Chuck's crap and thus learn more about their parents.

Except for the license plates that might work. They (and the amulet) were shown on purpose. Maybe pre series Dean?

[Myrelle]

My anticipation for this show increases daily, at this point. 

I can't wait.

And those pics of Dean made me misty-eyed again for the first time since Supernatural ended.

He looks so good.

I don't care what the time frame is for his appearance, tbh.

For me, just to see him again and hear his voice again, even for a few minutes,  will be enough. 

On 9/30/2022 at 3:22 PM, tessathereaper said:

Great interview with Drake

https://www.ksitetv.com/winchesters/winchesters-drake-rodger-on-playing-john-jensen-ackles-supernatural-more/232165/

It really is a great interview. 

Thanks! 👏 

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Except for the license plates that might work. They (and the amulet) were shown on purpose. Maybe pre series Dean?

Jensen looks much younger than he actually is, but he definitely doesn't look like he did back in S1. I don't know how they could explain that. Any ideas?

As for the amulet, Dean was wearing it, IIRC he never kept it in the car. The amulet was meant for tracking Chuck!God. Why would Dean be looking for him? Of course, they might go with ''There were X years Y months Z days between 15.19/15.20'' and have Dean go looking for Chuck!Human for some reason. 

Actually, they might give the amulet some new functions. Maybe, the necklace could help Dean get to the truth somehow, distinguish between what was real and what was not. 

As for the license plate, I have no ideas. 

Maybe Dean's mission is happening in his mind. Dean's been always on the road, so imagining some kind of road could make it easier for him to complete the task. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Nick24

[Shadow42]

On 9/27/2022 at 12:51 AM, Nick24 said:

I keep thinking about Abaddon's factories. Henry is coming back, and he knew about them. Mary's father was hunting demons. Here is some map Mary is looking at:

Maybe they are investigating something about missing people and Samuel got kidnapped by those demons, too. That is why they might need Henry. Maybe John wants to know what Henry's last case was and here it is. And this is how they might find the connection between Samuel and Henry, and this is how they could save the world by stopping the demons. Well, of course, this is going to be much more complicated. So many ways to tell the story. I totally get why Robbie is so excited about that.

Henry didn't know about the factories did he? Didn't Sam discover that later? Henry only knew that Abandon was responsible for the suicide/murders. He didn't know about souls being harvested. Josie got possessed so no one actually found out what was really happening.

I don't know what John could find out from his dad other than Henry didn't run out on him.

[Casseiopeia]

Well at least we know now that this is a "what if" scenario. Not so much fleshing out John and Mary's story.

[MAK]

Well, according to Danneel in an EW interview (sorry, haven't learned to link yet), Anael/Sister Jo will not be in the angel in the prequel.

[Nick24]

1 hour ago, MAK said:

Well, according to Danneel in an EW interview (sorry, haven't learned to link yet), Anael/Sister Jo will not be in the angel in the prequel.

You can use the 5th button on the panel. Right after the button ''S''. There is ''URL'' space, so you can put a link in there and that's it. 

[MAK]

Thank you, never really looked at all the the editing buttons here. Usually I try to cut/past the URL from another tab, but this time, I read the article on my phone, and I login here on my laptop. 

https://ew.com/tv/the-winchesters-supernatural-characters-jensen-ackles-danneel-ackles/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_content=new&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=633d9d24ea47420001d39bde

(Hope this worked)

[FlickChick]

Having read the article above from SYFYWIRE, I'm concerned about so much talk of major reveals in E13. It almost seems like they're thinking that it may/may not be the last episode. I hope I'm wrong and that they're just waiting to see what the ratings are and what the new network decides about going forward with the show.

[Nick24]

Synopsis for Episode 1.03 ''You're Lost Little Girl''

If I'm correct, this new writer is from ''The Flash''.

Quote

FACE YOUR FEARS – When Mary’s (Meg Donnelly) next-door neighbor mysteriously goes missing, she and John (Drake Rodger) start digging into the disappearance. During their investigation, John unexpectedly reunites with someone from his past. Carlos (JoJo Fleites) and Ada (Demetria McKinney) bond as they stakeout a potential lead for the demon’s partner.

Meanwhile, Latika (Nida Khurshid) taps into old folklore passed down from her family in hopes it helps Mary and John. Claudia Yarmy directed the episode written by Gabriel Alejandro Garza (#103). Original Airdate 10/25/2022.

[Nick24]

In the synopsis for 1.03 there is something about the demon, whose partner they are tracking. This sounds like our Big Bad might be some demon. I'm wondering if we might know it. Azazel started his psychic kids business exactly in 1972. They could tie it up to ''In the Beginning'' and Mary's deal somehow. Maybe there is some other reason why Mary made that deal besides bringing John back. I'm more and more intrigued. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Nick24

[Featherhat]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:50 PM, FlickChick said:

Having read the article above from SYFYWIRE, I'm concerned about so much talk of major reveals in E13. It almost seems like they're thinking that it may/may not be the last episode. I hope I'm wrong and that they're just waiting to see what the ratings are and what the new network decides about going forward with the show.

Often shows that have 13 eps ordered initially plan big things for the potential "final" episode. Either revelations or cliffhangers or the "wrong" choice e.g. the showrunner of Emily Owens MD on the CW years ago said that she planned for Emily to sleep with the "wrong" guy in ep 13 so she could choose the "right" one in ep22 which was never produced. 

I don't think it necessarily means anything as I don't think this show will run out of things to reveal in 13 eps. Although I'm sure everyone is conscious of how much the CW has changed since this was initially ordered to pilot. 

[catrox14]

So...Tom Welling is going to be Samuel Campbell... that's awesome!

https://twitter.com/NY_Comic_Con/status/1579188568484098048?s=20&t=E5cKOwyvlnTlVR0M6c5iNg

[Nick24]

Maybe we could get some Henry/Samuel meeting then. That'd be funny.

I've been thinking about Henry's return and how they could do it. Maybe Hendry did timetravel one more time in ''As Time Goes By''. Yes, Dean knocked him out, but they might've timetravelled together somehow before rescuing Sam... Well, this sounds crazy and probably doesn't make any sense. I'm just eager to figure it out. I cannot wait.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Nick24

[PAForrest]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

So...Tom Welling is going to be Samuel Campbell... that's awesome!

https://twitter.com/NY_Comic_Con/status/1579188568484098048?s=20&t=E5cKOwyvlnTlVR0M6c5iNg

I love this announcement! The casting for this show is so far spot on.  I'm excited, looking forward to next week.

[FlickChick]

Another reunion of sorts - Tom Welling and Jensen were together on Smallville as we know. Tom also is the person who got Jensen into golfing (which he enjoys immensely to this day) while working together on Smallville. I haven't watched Tom in anything since Smallville, so I'll be anxious to see him again.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

So...Tom Welling is going to be Samuel Campbell... that's awesome!

https://twitter.com/NY_Comic_Con/status/1579188568484098048?s=20&t=E5cKOwyvlnTlVR0M6c5iNg

Oh God, I was hoping he wasn't Samuel when I heard he was cast. Welling can't act (IMO) and, I'm just going to sit there comparing him to Mitch Pileggi 🤦‍♀️

[Featherhat]

I would prefer Mitch Pileggi, especially because I'm a long term fan of his, but for obvious reasons that's not possible. The only things I've seen TW in are SV and Lucifer neither of which impressed me (although I don't think Pierce/Cain was entirely his fault that story arc was shockingly terrible in every way).

I'll wait and see. It's a decent casting from a name recognition in genre TV way. 

[tessathereaper]

I don't know, I'm looking forward to seeing Tom's take on the role.  Honestly it's not like Mitch did wonders in the role of Samuel.  He was a name, he was OK.

[Casseiopeia]

So it looks like Tom Welling joins the cast in episode 7. There he joins the hunt for whatever the big bad is. Maybe Samuel traveled forward through time sees what happens and tries to  fix/alter/avoid events in the future?

[PAForrest]

7 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

I don't know, I'm looking forward to seeing Tom's take on the role.  Honestly it's not like Mitch did wonders in the role of Samuel.  He was a name, he was OK.

Mitch was a genre fan fav, just like Welling is. He was good in the role in In the Beginning, because that was a good script. When Gamble brought him back in season six, she completely trashed the character, turned him into a creepy villain. So unfortunately MP is now associated with that character fail. Time for someone else to take on the role.

Edited October 10, 2022 by PAForrest

[Aeryn13]

30 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Mitch was a genre fan fav, just like Welling is. He was good in the role in In the Beginning, because that was a good script. When Gamble brought him back in season six, she completely trashed the character, turned him into a creepy villain. So unfortunately MP is now associated with that character fail. Time for someone else to take on the role.

Also, since they re-cast John and Mary even younger than their younger versions in Season 5?, Pileggi wouldn`t fit because he is associated with tho other cast now and if you re-cast, then IMO, you do it all the way. So going younger with Tom Welling fits.

Which btw, this is so incredibly meta (in a good way, not an later-SPN-way), going back to the WB roots, it kinda blows my mind, haha. Great casting announcement.      

And it looks like the Winchesters isn`t part of the CW "topical storyline" theme for the Season. Thank God. Mental health is an important topic but this recent thing where a network decides to go "topical" and all their shows have to have mandated storylines about something, if it`s creatively a good fit in any way or not, su-ucks. I don`t think any show/network so far has not botched this.  

Edited October 10, 2022 by Aeryn13

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Mitch was a genre fan fav, just like Welling is. He was good in the role in In the Beginning, because that was a good script. When Gamble brought him back in season six, she completely trashed the character, turned him into a creepy villain. So unfortunately MP is now associated with that character fail. Time for someone else to take on the role.

Not for me, which is nice.  When I think of Samuel Campbell I think of Mitch Pileggi from In The Beginning. I have very good selective memory when it comes to SPN 😀

[tessathereaper]

18 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Also, since they re-cast John and Mary even younger than their younger versions in Season 5?, Pileggi wouldn`t fit because he is associated with tho other cast now and if you re-cast, then IMO, you do it all the way. So going younger with Tom Welling fits.

Which btw, this is so incredibly meta (in a good way, not an later-SPN-way), going back to the WB roots, it kinda blows my mind, haha. Great casting announcement.      

And it looks like the Winchesters isn`t part of the CW "topical storyline" theme for the Season. Thank God. Mental health is an important topic but this recent thing where a network decides to go "topical" and all their shows have to have mandated storylines about something, if it`s creatively a good fit in any way or not, su-ucks. I don`t think any show/network so far has not botched this.  

Yeah it makes sense.  New John and Mary, new Samuel and I think Tom will do a good job.

[ahrtee]

28 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeah it makes sense.  New John and Mary, new Samuel and I think Tom will do a good job.

Will they shave his head to match Mitch?  After all, In The Beginning was just a few years later than this.    (They could have cast Michael Rosenbaum instead...)  😀

[Morrigan2575]

5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Will they shave his head to match Mitch?  After all, In The Beginning was just a few years later than this.    (They could have cast Michael Rosenbaum instead...)  😀

Now that, I would have cheered. 😁

[BornToDie]

Not really into the casting of Tom Welling.  He’s way too monotone and can’t show emotion well.  Michael Rosenbaum would have been interesting and I feel he’s a better actor.

[Casseiopeia]

[Nick24]

Speaking of Dean's mission, I sincerely hope Dean's not doing this for Sam. IMO we've seen enough of Dean doing all for Sam in SPN. Let Dean do something for himself!

[Nick24]

At the beginning that demon told Mary about Samuel something like ''He's going to end up in Hell with the rest of your kin''. It might be on purpose. SPN Season 6 made me believe that Samuel had been brought back from Hell. John's been there, too. So has Dean. So has Sam. Maybe they're going to give some extra explanation why most of the Winchesters have been to Hell. 

[Casseiopeia]

7 hours ago, Nick24 said:

Speaking of Dean's mission, I sincerely hope Dean's not doing this for Sam. IMO we've seen enough of Dean doing all for Sam in SPN. Let Dean do something for himself!

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

That would be great. 

10 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

There is a similar meme for the X-Men Universe where Charles (McAvoy) and Magneto (Fassbender) literally don`t age through 30 years and then it catches up to them in one or two years. Haha, the magic of prequel casting. 

[Nick24]

18 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

That's the story I'd love!

Edited October 12, 2022 by Nick24

[Snow Apple]

23 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

Woah. I didn't think of that and even forgot about the guy with the note when the real story kicked in. Very intriguing.

[ahrtee]

21 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

Actually, that would make a lot of sense--either a note Henry left with Dean in As Time Goes By in case he went time-traveling again (he did want John to know he hadn't really abandoned him, and tell him about the MoL), or by Dean meeting Henry in heaven.  That would also give Dean something to do while waiting for Sam, instead of just driving around for 50 or so years alone.  

[Nick24]

22 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I liked the idea of the MOL much better than the execution a lot of the time so it's good for me that they're reworking them. I wonder if the fight with the Akida will somehow rewrite reality or people's perceptions of reality and that's what Dean is trying to untangle? It will be interesting to see if they actually team up with some demons to stop it. Although I don't really want a "Spike circa Buffy S4-7" character in S1. 

This sounds very interesting. Maybe some of events in SPN were our or the characters' wrong perceptions of them. Or because of that fight with the Akrida, they needed to tell us that Chuck had been writing their story, whereas he never really had. Maybe our perception of the finale was wrong, too. I mean, this won't change anything, because all of it did happen, meaning that the characters truly believed it had happened, but at the same time it wasn't exactly the truth, and it could clean up some of Dabb/Singer messes.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Nick24

[Lastcall]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Considering Dean was most likely the "strange man" that handed John the note Dean might be doing this to stop the aliens from destroying the universe.

Time travel ticks all the boxes to the questions raised about the show and lines up with all the hints from the interviews and the pilot. My theory is the Akreeta exist outside of time and invading in 1972 threatens the timeline. Since history hadn't been changed yet, Heaven John and Mary still have their original memories. Dean is sent back to make sure everything happens the way it is supposed to and help stop the Akreeta. Dean is the mysterious stranger, and he is writing it all down for Sam because of the "pick the music" reference. Dean is sent back in the Heaven impala with the Kaz plates.

[Aeryn13]

20 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Time travel ticks all the boxes to the questions raised about the show and lines up with all the hints from the interviews and the pilot. My theory is the Akreeta exist outside of time and invading in 1972 threatens the timeline. Since history hadn't been changed yet, Heaven John and Mary still have their original memories. Dean is sent back to make sure everything happens the way it is supposed to and help stop the Akreeta. Dean is the mysterious stranger, and he is writing it all down for Sam because of the "pick the music" reference. Dean is sent back in the Heaven impala with the Kaz plates.

Giving him a little mission - and an important one at that - after that stupid death in the mothership would be very neat, I would love it. 

I`m not at all bothered by any "canon"-tweaking they are doing. Even if the mothership hadn`t dragged canon behind a shed, violated it repeatedly and then killed it, even IN the show John and Mary are always like one Angel-mindwipe away from conforming back to the timeline. And since this all takes place before that, they can seriously do whatever they want.   

[Featherhat]

33 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

This sounds very interesting. Maybe some of events in SPN were our or the characters' wrong perceptions of them. Or because of that fight with the Akrida, they needed to tell us that Chuck had been writing their story, whereas he never really had. Maybe our perception of the finale was wrong, too. I mean, this won't change anything, because all of it did happen, meaning that the characters truly believed it had happened, but at the same time it wasn't exactly the truth, and it could clean up some of Dabb/Singer messes.

It's all possible. When I heard the line I immediately thought that the Akida threatening all of existence would prove to be one of the ways that these events eventually end up coming into line with SPN "canon" such as it is. Maybe with some things being different or "the truth depends entirely on your POV" as someone from another series with a whole lot of prequels that fans still argue over says. Like the "Missouri" quote turning out to mean something completely different to what was thought. I don't know, I just continue to hope that hiring a Fringe writer and making him and exec producer pays off well at some point. 

I never even thought about Dean being the mysterious stranger but it does make sense. Although very bittersweet if Dean ends up being the one who sets his father and thus himself and Sam off on a difficult and tragic path. 

I do care about canon in other shows, really I do. For the LOTR series I haven't yet been able to separate my Silmarillion love from the show even though generally I can keep books and shows/movies separate. But not for this show. I really don't care about canon because it's clear later showrunners didn't give a flying fig about it to the point where they were actively destroying the concept of canon. So as long as it ends up with either an explanation of why things are different to ITB or ends up vaguely tallying with it (with minor difference allowed) even if our understanding is changed then I'll be happy.