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Spoilers And Speculations: Or Where We Do *Not* Complain About Canon


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Synopsis for 1.05 ''Legend of a Mind''. Looks like they changed the title. 

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SECRETS UNCOVERED – Hidden secrets from Ada’s (Demetria McKinney) past comes to light when the gang goes undercover to look into a suspicious death. Still reeling from the last Hunt, Millie (Bianca Kajlich) asks Mary (Meg Donnelly) to keep an eye on John (Drake Rodger) as they split off from the others to get intel on the new case. Carlos (JoJo Fleites) and Ada’s stakeout connects the victim to the next target. Latika’s (Nida Khurshid) research comes up with some interesting results that lead John to be Mary’s lifeline out of a sticky situation. Lisa Soper directed the episode written by Sehaj Sethi.

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On 10/13/2022 at 5:25 PM, FlickChick said:

I'm going to see if I can catch sight of the Impala. I'll let you know.

@Cassiopeia, I took several slow looks at the car and it is definitely not the Impala. The scene is dark so I can see how you might think that it was, but the thing that gave it away, was the light colored stripe on the panel below the door on the brown car that pulled in and then was still sitting there in the next scene.

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Just had thoughts about who could have given John the letter from Henry.

One possibility is of course Gabriel since we know Speight is set to appear sometime. That seems pretty obvious. 

But another possibility is, could it be Ketch?  The actor, has said that he is in it and it involves time travel, flash backs and flash forwards. Ketch was a MoL, he would have training in time travel spells or access to trinkets that allow it. He could also appear and disappear in a moment using that type of magic.

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8 minutes ago, MAK said:

One possibility is of course Gabriel since we know Speight is set to appear sometime. That seems pretty obvious. 

I suppose Speight is going to appear as Loki, not Gabriel. That's why I'm pretty sure he has nothing to do with the letter. 

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On 10/30/2022 at 9:55 AM, Nick24 said:

I suppose Speight is going to appear as Loki, not Gabriel. That's why I'm pretty sure he has nothing to do with the letter. 

Well Loki is Gabriel but yeah he's certainly not going to say "oh by the way I'm Gabriel cleverly disguising myself as Loki"

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Well looks like it is all over. Deadline put out an article on the shows future and it looks pretty grim. The bright side is they get to finish the 13 episode order and have time to finish the story properly. 13 should resolve everything and reset so it can fit in with Deans 1973 trip.

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So far in all those interviews Robbie has been sounding so convinced about the future of the show, so I can assume, that they might have some other plans in this case. 

If this is really over, Robbie and the other writers will probably have to rewrite the last episodes to make them fit with these unfortune news, but there isn't much time, especially if their original plans were very different.

Edited by Nick24
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2 hours ago, Lastcall said:

Well looks like it is all over. Deadline put out an article on the shows future and it looks pretty grim. The bright side is they get to finish the 13 episode order and have time to finish the story properly. 13 should resolve everything and reset so it can fit in with Deans 1973 trip.

No, it's not all over yet and we shouldn't spread that kind of thinking. I'm disappointed there was no back order, but Kung Fu is in its 3rd season and only has 13 episode seasons, it's possible The Winchesters will go that route. This does not mean for certain that there will be no Season 2.

Until that decision is made, we should all focus on watching live if possible, streaming on the CW app, and otherwise showing how much we're enjoying the show and would love to see more seasons. Just like the old days of SPN. 

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4 hours ago, Nick24 said:

So far in all those interviews Robbie has been sounding so convinced about the future of the show, so I can assume, that they might have some other plans in this case. 

If this is really over, Robbie and the other writers will probably have to rewrite the last episodes to make them fit with these unfortune news, but there isn't much time, especially if their original plans were very different.

As far as I know production for the Season might have just wrapped? So now would be too late to re-tool. But I do think they were smart about it either way.

No back order also technically doesn`t mean no renewal. If they were very firm about it, they could have announced it right now like they did for Stargirl and Nancy Drew. Why wait? My guess is they want to see how the Season or at least the majority of it does and then decide overall what kind of network they wanna be aka if they want to have scripted original programming or not .   

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3 hours ago, goyour-own-way said:

No, it's not all over yet and we shouldn't spread that kind of thinking. I'm disappointed there was no back order, but Kung Fu is in its 3rd season and only has 13 episode seasons, it's possible The Winchesters will go that route. This does not mean for certain that there will be no Season 2.

Until that decision is made, we should all focus on watching live if possible, streaming on the CW app, and otherwise showing how much we're enjoying the show and would love to see more seasons. Just like the old days of SPN. 

Exactly stop putting it in it's grave when nothing of the sort has happened.  Esp because even if CW does stop doing scripted series, good ratings and a good fanbase(which is the show is starting to develop for it's own sake) makes it that much more likely it might get picked up elsewhere. 

So watch it live, stream it on the app, watch it on DVR, buy it from Youtube or Amazon(depending on the country), any combination of those things, and being supportive.

Also I'm pretty sure they are shooting until December.

Edited by tessathereaper
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4 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

Exactly stop putting it in it's grave when nothing of the sort has happened.  Esp because even if CW does stop doing scripted series, good ratings and a good fanbase(which is the show is starting to develop for it's own sake) makes it that much more likely it might get picked up elsewhere. 

So watch it live, stream it on the app, watch it on DVR, buy it from Youtube or Amazon(depending on the country), any combination of those things, and being supportive.

Also I'm pretty sure they are shooting until December.

Nexstar has made it pretty clear they are a dead end for pretty much everything that is scripted. Even if the original stayed on it would be in the same position. I don't even think Jensen would want it to stay if Nexstar is only willing on paying half of what the CW used to in license fees. 

The show has a few things going for it. Rumor is it has done well on HBOMax and in streaming. It does have a strong fan base and Supernatural still hits the top 10 acquired ratings charts every now and again. Jensen also recently renewed his WB contract and everyone seems to like the partnership over there. HBOMax is a possibility as long as it makes a profit, it's all Zaslav cares about. Netflix is a possibility, but I think they are more concerned about keeping the mothership...but they might pick it up so there is still something Supernatural if the mothership leaves. 

I think the most probable scenario is Nexstar cancels everything. Even if Paramount picks up Walker, they won't do the old 18-22 ep seasons they did on the CW. It will probably be an easier sell for Jared and Jensen to do the reboot. The True Detective pitch they have been making fits right in with Zaslav's new direction. The prequel films until December 15, so they have plenty of time to film a proper ending that fits into the canon...maybe the mindwipe. If 13 ends on a cliffhanger, it's a good indication Jensen has another place for the show to land.

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Yes they have made it pretty clear, they also still need shows for next season, they aren't going to be able to develop a whole stable of them between now and then.  The shows that have good demos are the ones most likely to make it another season, while they are still developing shows more in line with what they are going for(reality, half hour comedies), and TW so far has done really good with the demos AND it has a young relatively unknown cast meaning it's not as expensive as some shows, the only lead who is relatively known is Meg.

Which means it is still important to support the show.

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Synopsis for 1.06 Art of Dying:

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CALL FOR HELP - Mary (Meg Donnelly) gets a call from an old family friend who's looking for some help but when the team arrives, they learn that some crucial details were left out. While Latika (Nida Khurshid) struggles with being a Hunter and questions her future with it, John's (Drake Rodger) eagerness, and commitment to the Hunt worries Mary. Carlos (JoJo Fleites) finds himself in a situation he's never experienced before and doesn't know what to do with himself. Geary McLeod directed the episode written by Jess Kardos (#106). Original Airdate 11/22/2022.

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Synopsis for 1.07 Reflections:

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IT ALL ADDS UP – The Hunt heats up and Mary (Meg Donnelly) and John (Drake Rodger) find trails that lead back to their fathers. Carlos (JoJo Fleites) helps Mary investigate where the Akrida might be hiding but they discover more than they bargained for. Meanwhile, Millie (Bianca Kajlich) steps in to help Latika (Nida Kurshid), Ada (Demetria McKinney), and John to decipher notes left behind and they stumble upon a way to get some answers. John Showalter directed the episode written by David H. Goodman & Robbie Thompson (#107). Original Airdate 12/6/2022.

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In the pictures for 1.07 Mary, John, Ada, Millie, Carlos and Lata are performing some ritual. IMO They might be summoning Henry's spirit to get the information. This would be possible according to ''Houses of the Holy'' and ''Death Takes a Holiday''.

Btw, looks like the episode is directed by Richard Speight Jr. Not Showalter, as it was stated before. 

Edited by Nick24
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On 12/25/2022 at 7:55 AM, roamyn said:

I doubt it’s Castiel in Jimmy’s body tho, as Jimmy would’ve only been a child, in the 70s.

Unless he time traveled.

My money is on time travel. If not why would Misha say he was going to appear on the show.

Edited by Shadow42
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3 hours ago, Shadow42 said:

My money is on time travel. If not why would Misha say he was going to appear on the show.

They've been dropping hints in interviews that there are a lot of big-time guests from the old show showing up. They probably knew from the beginning that 13 was probably it. Based on the first 7 episodes, I'm not expecting much more than Castiel mind wiping everyone at the end of 13 to fit it into the old show.

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1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

Or this is taking place in the space between dying and Heaven so Castiel doesn't have to time travel so much as show up where ever this space is.

Or maybe...this is how he gets rescued from The Empty?

For me, this isn't so much a question of "how" but "why."  Assuming it's actually part of the story and not just stunt casting or to hit the reset button, why would Castiel need to show up in the John/Mary storyline?  To save them, probably.  Maybe to make sure the match takes place, since (at that time) heaven really, *really* wanted/needed Sam and Dean to be born.  I can't see season 15 Cas needing to do anything in the earlier time except make sure it happened as planned.  And, as mentioned above, then it shouldn't be Misha as Cas, but whoever Cas borrowed in 1972.  

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This might all tie into the Akrida storyline - Dean may not realize he's not actually where he's supposed to be yet or again it may be something that ties into having to rescue Cas from The Empty.  After all when Bobby said Cas was helping Jack, Dean didn't actually seem shocked, it was an expression that could potentially be interpreted numerous ways.  Maybe the Akrida are a fail safe Chuck set up, if he can't have this creation, no one will and without him the Akrida can break through.  They aren't his creation but he could keep them out(however) and without him there to "type in the code"(so to speak) they could start breaking through.

In any case that would be an easy enough way for Season 15 Cas(Misha) to show up.  Either to help Dean or Dean helps him.

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16 hours ago, roamyn said:

Did Misha say he was going to appear or Castiel is?  There's a difference.

Can you imagine the backlash if Misha doesn't appear? If it's just some random actor instead? The Winchesters probably wouldn't survive the s**t storm from his fans.

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1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

In any case that would be an easy enough way for Season 15 Cas(Misha) to show up.  Either to help Dean or Dean helps him.

I'll be extremely happy if it turns out that Dean is the one who saved Castiel.  That would give Dean something meaningful (incl. in his POV) to do, and on the other hand it would be a ''f*ck you'' to Dabb, because his Jack would become less important for the story.

Dean may become aware of this Akrida, decide to take risks and get to the Empty for Cas, send him to 70s in order to help to fight that thing. 

43 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

Can you imagine the backlash if Misha doesn't appear? If it's just some random actor instead? The Winchesters probably wouldn't survive the s**t storm from his fans.

Why would they create any ''storms'' because of that? The characters may be played by different actors, especially the angels. That has happened many times on SPN. 

Edited by Nick24
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1 hour ago, Nick24 said:

I'll be extremely happy if it turns out that Dean is the one who saved Castiel.  That would give Dean something meaningful (incl. in his POV) to do, and on the other hand it would be a ''f*ck you'' to Dabb, because his Jack would become less important for the story.

Dean may become aware of this Akrida, decide to take risks and get to the Empty for Cas, send him to 70s in order to help to fight that thing. 

Why would they create any ''storms'' because of that? The characters may be played by different actors, especially the angels. That has happened many times on SPN. 

Seriously? Do you think Misha's fans care about the character? They care about the actor. If Misha is telling his fans that he is going to make an appearance and then suddenly it's a different actor? Yes "STORM".

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16 minutes ago, Shadow42 said:

Seriously? Do you think Misha's fans care about the character? They care about the actor. If Misha is telling his fans that he is going to make an appearance and then suddenly it's a different actor? Yes "STORM".

Well, then they should give that storm directly to Misha. AFAIK Robbie hasn't officially announced Castiel's or Misha's appearance yet, so it won't be the producers' fault.

Edited by Nick24
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Going by everything we have seen so far and what we are getting from interviews, I would say Sam Dean and Castiel are in the final episode, it will serve as a series finale and set up a Supernatural series in the future. Jensen probably was told by Nexstar day one that they won't pick up the show. Considering they are cancelling Whose Line; it's a good bet Walker is gone too. I doubt Nexstar is going to put much money into promoting the return of the originals and I expect them to announce the cancellation as soon as all the last advertising check clears. Anyone willing to pick up the Winchesters would have picked up Charmed and Legacies already, so these 13 episodes are it. Sam, Dean and Castiel probably won't be a surprise. They should start promoting at conventions and social media and hope some bigger publications pick it up so they can boost the ratings and demo's when they return. If there is a big enough boost, they might be able to sell a Sam and Dean show in the future. I'm sticking with time travel and a Castiel mind wipe with some hook to sell season 16 down the road.

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18 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

Going by everything we have seen so far and what we are getting from interviews, I would say Sam Dean and Castiel are in the final episode, it will serve as a series finale and set up a Supernatural series in the future. Jensen probably was told by Nexstar day one that they won't pick up the show. Considering they are cancelling Whose Line; it's a good bet Walker is gone too. I doubt Nexstar is going to put much money into promoting the return of the originals and I expect them to announce the cancellation as soon as all the last advertising check clears. Anyone willing to pick up the Winchesters would have picked up Charmed and Legacies already, so these 13 episodes are it. Sam, Dean and Castiel probably won't be a surprise. They should start promoting at conventions and social media and hope some bigger publications pick it up so they can boost the ratings and demo's when they return. If there is a big enough boost, they might be able to sell a Sam and Dean show in the future. I'm sticking with time travel and a Castiel mind wipe with some hook to sell season 16 down the road.

If there is a Supernatural revival it won't be on the CW. Most likely it will air on HBOMax. Probably a movie since everyone is busy with their own projects and since even a short series would be a huge commitment that seems like the best option.

I don't think Walker is going to go anywhere.

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6 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I don't think Walker is going to go anywhere.

Walker would be more expensive than Whose Line, and being that Nexstar is all abt slashing costs, I doubt it’s going to survive beyond next season at the most.  Walker, Independence will most likely get cancelled, esp if TW does.

Who knows abt Gotham Knights

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On 12/28/2022 at 12:41 AM, Lastcall said:

Going by everything we have seen so far and what we are getting from interviews, I would say Sam Dean and Castiel are in the final episode, it will serve as a series finale and set up a Supernatural series in the future. Jensen probably was told by Nexstar day one that they won't pick up the show. Considering they are cancelling Whose Line; it's a good bet Walker is gone too. I doubt Nexstar is going to put much money into promoting the return of the originals and I expect them to announce the cancellation as soon as all the last advertising check clears. Anyone willing to pick up the Winchesters would have picked up Charmed and Legacies already, so these 13 episodes are it. Sam, Dean and Castiel probably won't be a surprise. They should start promoting at conventions and social media and hope some bigger publications pick it up so they can boost the ratings and demo's when they return. If there is a big enough boost, they might be able to sell a Sam and Dean show in the future. I'm sticking with time travel and a Castiel mind wipe with some hook to sell season 16 down the road.

I don`t think there is really any correlations with Charmed or Legacies and the Winchesters. Though overall I do agree that there is slim chances overall of pick-ups by other outlets. Even the streaming landscape has changed dramatically in the last year or so.

I`m not sure they would use the final episode of the Winchesters basically to just reboot SPN or something like this, maybe a small-ish teaser but the meat and bones of episode 13 will be about the Winchesters cast and plot. 

 

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13 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t think there is really any correlations with Charmed or Legacies and the Winchesters. Though overall I do agree that there is slim chances overall of pick-ups by other outlets. Even the streaming landscape has changed dramatically in the last year or so.

I`m not sure they would use the final episode of the Winchesters basically to just reboot SPN or something like this, maybe a small-ish teaser but the meat and bones of episode 13 will be about the Winchesters cast and plot. 

 

The glory days of the supernatural tv shows are pretty much over. We are in the phase where the shows they produce test the waters to see if there is still life left in the genre. I think Charmed and Legacies are relevant because The Winchesters follows their formula pretty much to the letter. It's not just those shows...Sabrina followed the same model and most of the one and done streaming supernatural shows. 

I don't think the finale will be all about rebooting the old show. I think Sam, Dean and Castiel will be there for the ratings bump and to show that there is money in Sam and Dean continuing in the future. I do think the finale will complete the 13 episode story and keep the door open for Sam and Dean. 

I agree with Casseiopeia that they probably won't do a Sam and Dean limited series right off the bat. Teen Wolf is testing the waters with a Movie and I'm guessing that is how Zaslav will play it if he is interested and thinks he can make money. 

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Dean, Sam and Castiel will be there(assuming they are) because Dean, Sam and Castiel were ALWAYS going to be there, it won't be for a "ratings bump" it will be because it was always a planned part of the story.  Frankly the story as it's going to now IMO points to definitely Dean and very likely Castiel as well showing up, with potential for Sam as well depending on how they decide to get there, that seems planned into the story itself.  

And even in the initial announcements about the show, it was mentioned that The Winchesters was the "first" SPN story Chaos Machine wanted to tell, not the only one.  I think there was always a pretty good chance that The Winchesters as we know it would be a one and done storyline and they could even potentially go an anthology type route in the sense that they do something more like a season long limited series and then do a different one.  I think both possibilities were something that has always been planned for.  Like if the landscape hadn't changed so much and TW was a runaway massive hit, they could choose to keep it going but if not IMO they've always had other ideas for following seasons to possibly even run concurrently to a continuing Winchesters.

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3 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

And even in the initial announcements about the show, it was mentioned that The Winchesters was the "first" SPN story Chaos Machine

That announcement was made before the sale of the network and the departure of Pedowitz. With Nextstars ultimatums about licensing fees and the fact that the WB is slashing shows from streaming services any further SPN story isn't a given.  Unless J2 and the WB are heavily involved (since SPN is the property of the WB not Chaos) the future is pretty shaky for spinoffs.

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5 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Dean, Sam and Castiel will be there(assuming they are) because Dean, Sam and Castiel were ALWAYS going to be there, it won't be for a "ratings bump" it will be because it was always a planned part of the story.  Frankly the story as it's going to now IMO points to definitely Dean and very likely Castiel as well showing up, with potential for Sam as well depending on how they decide to get there, that seems planned into the story itself.  

And even in the initial announcements about the show, it was mentioned that The Winchesters was the "first" SPN story Chaos Machine wanted to tell, not the only one.  I think there was always a pretty good chance that The Winchesters as we know it would be a one and done storyline and they could even potentially go an anthology type route in the sense that they do something more like a season long limited series and then do a different one.  I think both possibilities were something that has always been planned for.  Like if the landscape hadn't changed so much and TW was a runaway massive hit, they could choose to keep it going but if not IMO they've always had other ideas for following seasons to possibly even run concurrently to a continuing Winchesters.

The Winchesters have finished shooting, right? So any appearances by either Dean, Sam or Cas would be subject to scheduling as all actors IMO would have been shooting something else in the exact same timeframe. Now everyone probably could get a day or at most two in but at the same time? 

So if all are in it and even share a scene, that probably was pencilled in quite early because otherwise it would be just to risky. Jensen can`t just randomely say he will not shoot this and this day of Big Sky. same Misha with Gotham Knights and even (or rather especially as a producer) Jared can`t throw of Walker`s schedule. Even if everyone put a day aside they weren`t shooting anyway, sometimes you go over/under and have to reschedule etc.     

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6 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

That announcement was made before the sale of the network and the departure of Pedowitz. With Nextstars ultimatums about licensing fees and the fact that the WB is slashing shows from streaming services any further SPN story isn't a given.  Unless J2 and the WB are heavily involved (since SPN is the property of the WB not Chaos) the future is pretty shaky for spinoffs.

I think at a certain point Zaslav will have to realize that he needs some content. Noone is gonna pay premium for HBO MAX for just cheap reality and docu stuff. But for the time being, yes, Warner is a big question mark.

I know WB still holds the rights to SPN overall, what I`m not sure is Jensen bought the rights to John and Mary specifically and Dean could appear on Warner`s say-so? I do know Chaos Machine aquired partial rights. I kinda wish they bought the rights to Dean as a character so noone and nothing can use him without Jensen`s agreement. 

There is something where actors can block further use of their characters, I do know that. Some characters `couldn`t appear in Legacies, even in pictures or barely mentions (like Original`s Hailey) because the actors had parted ways with the showrunner in such a bad way, they didn`t allow it.   

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21 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

That announcement was made before the sale of the network and the departure of Pedowitz. With Nextstars ultimatums about licensing fees and the fact that the WB is slashing shows from streaming services any further SPN story isn't a given.  Unless J2 and the WB are heavily involved (since SPN is the property of the WB not Chaos) the future is pretty shaky for spinoffs.

Which totally missed the point of what I was saying, which had nothing to do with that.  Taking that single line out of context to respond to something that wasn't being said.  My response was focused Dean, Castiel, Sam showing up and NOT being "for a ratings bump" and this part of my response wasto show that the show was always possibly planned as a "one and done".  BEFORE the "change in landscape" I mentioned(ie the sale of the network, departure of Pedowitz, and so on).

Edited by tessathereaper
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Some spoilers for the remaining episodes

 

‘The Resident’ Spoilers: Conrad/Billie Kiss Aftermath — Missing ‘FBI’ Agent? | TVLinehttps://tvline.com/lists/the-resident-spoilers-conrad-billie-midseason-premiere/

 

Is there anything you could tease about what’s coming up for The Winchesters‘ Carlos or Lata in the back half of the season? They’ve been such great additions to this universe. –CeCe


Showrunner Robbie Thompson tells TVLine, “You’re going to see some potential romance for both of them, and also see them really challenge themselves — particularly Carlos in Episode 8 (airing Jan. 24). We’re really going to dig into his backstory as a musician, and Jojo [Fleites] did an incredible job in that. We’re also going to see Lata expand her abilities within the core four, and what she brings to the table as a hunter, as well, particularly in Episode 10.” Thompson also said that in Episode 8, “Carlos and Lata go on a bit of an adventure together, and we’re going to see them working a case on their own.”

I really liked Ada’s son, Tony, and his little flirtation with Latika on The Winchesters. Any chances he’ll be coming back? –Ivan
I got your inquiry in front of showrunner Robbie Thompson, who responded, “We love Tony, too! Would love to see more of him as well, and I can at least tease that we will see where that flirtation went in Episode 10,” airing sometime in February. (The Winchesters resumes its freshman run Tuesday, Jan. 24 at 9/8c.)

Edited by Casseiopeia
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Has anyone else noticed this seems to be structured after scooby doo? John Winchester is Fred, Mary is daphne, Latika is Velma and Carlos is shaggy, and they drive around in a van hunting monsters. Only difference is that the monsters are real and there is no talking dog- yet.

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 There is more than just 2 of them it makes sense to have  a vehicle they can all fit in, it's very quintessentially 70s, plus it's actually where Carlos lives most of the time.  Plus I mean in the cartoon, it seemed to me Daphne didn't actually have much of a personality whereas Mary is pretty much one of the best hunters.  Latika might be "Velma" but Carlos is also a very competent hunter, he's no Shaggy.

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