Current Plots Discussion II: Discussing Today's Episode and Current Storylines

[brisbydog]

1 minute ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I wonder if we're going to see one in the next few months. I mean he was shown the door for a reason. I mean what was the final straw here.

I guess we find out in the spring. Can it possibly be worse than what is airing now? Brace yourself!

[peachmangosteen]

I doubt it’d be a rape story. Ron has a weird fetish for them for sure but they’re a soap staple that like literally every writer has done.

Are there verified reports that Ron was fired? 

[CanaryFan98]

12 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

I guess we find out in the spring. Can it possibly be worse than what is airing now? Brace yourself!

It had to be something that was the final straw because he's been offensive for years and lasted longer than he deserved.

[Rodney]

21 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Bonnie took advantage of a drunk Lucas pretending to be Adrienne then months later showed up claiming that Emily was the product of their ONS. Of course, we found out that the child was really Rex and Mimi's which was revealed during Sarah/Rex's engagement party when Sarah returned back to town engaged to him. So yeah that's why Kate hates Bonnie on this I don't fault Kate.

Oh, right.  I forgot all about that.  Yeah, definitely makes sense as to why Kate hates Bonnie.

[sas616]

4 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Serious question:

Is there any audience for what was presented on today's show?

1. Slapstick Hattie and Leo. He's not that stupid.

2. Awful Bonnie, Abe and Johnny Body & Soul crap.  Mortified for the actors.

3. Connie aiding Gabi reveal a secret that can be obtained by listening to any Stefan and Ava conversation 

4. Roman mumbling to Kate at the pub.

 

I certainly was no entertained with anything that aired today.     I don't like the Leo and Hattie show, REALLY don't like the Body and Soul crap and, today, realized I don't like the new Gabby.   They can get rid of Connie any time.  Yesterday would be preferable.   I'm starting to think I need to take a break from Days, which really makes me sad because I'm about to give up on GH because of all the crap going on there.  And I LOVE MY SOAPS!

[Giuseppe]

5 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Serious question:

Is there any audience for what was presented on today's show?

1. Slapstick Hattie and Leo. He's not that stupid.

2. Awful Bonnie, Abe and Johnny Body & Soul crap.  Mortified for the actors.

3. Connie aiding Gabi reveal a secret that can be obtained by listening to any Stefan and Ava conversation 

4. Roman mumbling to Kate at the pub.

 

I have a very high tolerance for dumb storylines on this show, but the Hattie and Leo highjinks and the Body and Soul auditions today (and that whole storyline in general) was the closest I've ever come to shutting off an episode before the end. Hattie accepts an invitation from a total stranger to come to his hotel and watch a show she's never seen before (IN WHAT WORLD???), and then when he keeps insisting that she's acting/dressing/behaving differently, she never bothers to question why this dude thinks he knows her so well?? Or even ask him what his name is?? It's.just.stupid.

[Artsda]

All this body and soul needs to be cut. It's terrible. 

[Giuseppe]

1 hour ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I mean he was shown the door for a reason. I mean what was the final straw here.

I have an inkling it was the Body and Soul crap.

[CanaryFan98]

48 minutes ago, Giuseppe said:

I have an inkling it was the Body and Soul crap.

Yet it took them months to figure this out? 
 

That being said all the soaps are currently terrible so it’s hard for me to see which was the worst 

[SouthernChick]

Bonnie was super annoying today. 

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

That being said all the soaps are currently terrible so it’s hard for me to see which was the worst 

I don't watch it anymore but I feel certain it's GH lol. But then, to me, the remaining CBS soaps have always been the worst. I was never able to get into them.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 hours ago, brisbydog said:

I go to a lot of message boards, and I can absolutely state with certainty that the majority of viewers are tuning out or fastforwarding this Body and Soul stuff.

Out of curiosity, do you include Facebook as one of those message boards in any capacity? Because I have noticed with NBC that they tend to cater their primetime shows to their Facebook audience. 

[peachmangosteen]

I seriously doubt message boards represent a majority of the audience at all. 

One of the problems with message boards is often if people go to one and see post after post saying what they enjoy is stupid and they're ridiculous to like it then they simply leave and don't post. That's why message boards often just become echo chambers.

Edited August 13 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

51 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Because I have noticed with NBC that they tend to cater their primetime shows to their Facebook audience. 

I think many networks look to Facebook. They also seem interested in Twitter. I guess they wanna gauge the social media presences' of older and younger viewers. All I know is, they likely don't give a shit what message boards say. Although, Ron definitely has lurked here at some point lol.

Edited August 13 by peachmangosteen

[brisbydog]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Out of curiosity, do you include Facebook as one of those message boards in any capacity? Because I have noticed with NBC that they tend to cater their primetime shows to their Facebook audience. 

Facebook is alas populated by sheep who just love everything. There isn't a lot of real discussion, and so many dumb questions that indicate these people barely understand what they are watching. 

Twitter is far better. When last week's promo featured a random Alex and Stephanie conversation and no Xarah wedding Peacock was just eviscerated with negative feedback. So much that they did an unprecedented mid week post with a Xarah wedding photo asking if we were looking forward to it. That was a clear response of message received.

[oftentimes]

Regarding the Hattie/Leo scenes:  When Leo is the subdued one in the room, well, somethings wrong. 🤣  He must be thinking 'how many people in this town suffer from DID'. 🙄

[brisbydog]

I always love to see Jack and Kayla together. So much history. Sadly the show never lets him see Steve anymore. Good that this is going fast. No way to tamper with these tests... right?

Why is Chad reading them before the doctor? I like new girl but I don't need her to be Abby. Chad does though. I can't see a future for his character if she isn't.

They only tested Jack, leaving the possibility that she could be another lost Jack daughter a la Gwen but not Abby. 

Did Brady even visit John? Seems like that would have been a better excuse for skipping the meeting than Theresa’s woes.

Brady is pathetic, always whining about Xander when he's got just as checkered a past.

Fiona is way more functional as an alcoholic than he is.

Good responsible teen talk. Glad they decided to wait. And clever segue into why the key is not where Maggie expects it to be. 

That cake looked amazing.

I was appalled at Fiona giving her alcohol infused cup to Maggie to hold. What if she had mixed them up?

Idiot nephew indeed. Xander is younger but far more mature than Brady.

I do love the vibe with the two mums. Sadly it's going to blow up. After this he will never trust her again. Nor should he. 

One hour of wedded bliss? Man Ron liked to punish us for preferring Xarah to Thalex.

Edited August 13 by brisbydog

[FilmTVGeek80]

6 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Facebook is alas populated by sheep who just love everything. There isn't a lot of real discussion, and so many dumb questions that indicate these people barely understand what they are watching. 

Twitter is far better. When last week's promo featured a random Alex and Stephanie conversation and no Xarah wedding Peacock was just eviscerated with negative feedback. So much that they did an unprecedented mid week post with a Xarah wedding photo asking if we were looking forward to it. That was a clear response of message received.

I don’t go to Facebook, but I don’t know why it’s necessary to insult people just because they enjoy the show and you don’t. I’m not enjoying the show now, especially with Eric and Nicole gone, but I won’t begrudge people enjoying it, even if it is mindlessly (which seems to be the best way to enjoy it.) And is Twitter “better” simply because a lot of people there enjoy the same pairing you do? As much as I loathe the Xander/Sarah pairing, I get that it they’re somewhat popular, but not sure why fans thought they were entitled to a promo of their fifteenth attempt at a wedding. 

[Rodney]

Just now, FilmTVGeek80 said:

And is Twitter “better” simply because a lot of people there enjoy the same pairing you do? As much as I loathe the Xander/Sarah pairing, I get that it they’re somewhat popular, but not sure why fans thought they were entitled to a promo of their fifteenth attempt at a wedding. 

My kind of poster.💗

[brisbydog]

11 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I don’t go to Facebook, but I don’t know why it’s necessary to insult people just because they enjoy the show and you don’t. I’m not enjoying the show now, especially with Eric and Nicole gone, but I won’t begrudge people enjoying it, even if it is mindlessly (which seems to be the best way to enjoy it.) And is Twitter “better” simply because a lot of people there enjoy the same pairing you do? As much as I loathe the Xander/Sarah pairing, I get that it they’re somewhat popular, but not sure why fans thought they were entitled to a promo of their fifteenth attempt at a wedding. 

No. It's more that Facebook has a lot of fake accounts that just post generic "I love this" with hearts and are clearly not real people. There are of course a few actual posters, but they are mainly patiently answering questions that anybody actually watching the show would know. Twitter is better because it's real people, and there are many differing opinions which I have no issues with. I was just citing that one recent example as it directly answered a question as to whether the promotions team are paying attention to social media. 

I am very dear friends with someone on Twitter who loves a character I don't care for, I am quite capable of respecting his opinions. Just as I try to do here despite a few posters who seem to just jump on any sort of enthusiasm for Xander growing past being a pop up villain 

[peachmangosteen]

I just wanna tell anyone lurking here that if you enjoy something posters here don't, you're not just some stupid sheep. 

I loved Sarah's 'get hit by a car' outfit and hair.

I like the AnnLynne Mccord character already. She brings great energy. Please, don't let her be Abigail. That'll ruin it!

Kayla always looks like she's so bored by everyone. Sometimes it's hilarious and sometimes it's like maybe try a little, actress' names I don't know lol.

Jack's hair looks great. And MA hasn't been embarrassing me this go around so that's nice.

Edited August 13 by peachmangosteen

[brisbydog]

I did not say posters here are sheep. I was asked specifically about Facebook. It is clearly a lot of bot accounts that love every story and every post. The real posters are there but hard to detect amongst the fakes. That's all.

[peachmangosteen]

Oh also, I feel like Brady falling back into his addiction again because Theresa married Alex is just like huh lol. It would have made more sense to do this when Tate was in jail/rehab. I’m kinda over the whole thing already but EM is doing a good job with it.

[brisbydog]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh also, I feel like Brady falling back into his addiction again because Theresa married Alex is just like huh lol. It would have made more sense to do this when Tate was in jail/rehab. I’m kinda over the whole thing already but EM is doing a good job with it.

On that we agree. Theresa?? Really? Losing custody of Rachel after he nearly shot Kristen would have been the time for a fall off the wagon. This is ludicrous.

[CanaryFan98]

9 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't watch it anymore but I feel certain it's GH lol. But then, to me, the remaining CBS soaps have always been the worst. I was never able to get into them.

I haven't watched since Bobbie's funeral and given what I've heard I clearly haven't missed much.

[peachmangosteen]

I forgot about Brady losing custody of Rachel. That too would have been a good time. Instead Brady barely seemed to care lol. Losing custody of his daughter, fine. His son gets arrested for selling drugs that a girl overdosed on, fine. But Theresa, whom he barely liked anymore until like a month ago, marries Alex and he can’t take it. His priorities lol.

[CanaryFan98]

53 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just wanna tell anyone lurking here that if you enjoy something posters here don't, you're not just some stupid sheep. 

I loved Sarah's 'get hit by a car' outfit and hair.

I like the AnnLynne Mccord character already. She brings great energy. Please, don't let her be Abigail. That'll ruin it!

Kayla always looks like she's so bored by everyone. Sometimes it's hilarious and sometimes it's like maybe try a little, actress' names I don't know lol.

Jack's hair looks great. And MA hasn't been embarrassing me this go around so that's nice.

I don't think she's Abby because it's too obvious this is a major tease (and the pics from a few months ago spoiled it but I digress). 

This is Ron's writing and I don't see him wanting to bring Abby back. Then again with the new writers this could change. 

[brisbydog]

24 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I don't think she's Abby because it's too obvious this is a major tease (and the pics from a few months ago spoiled it but I digress). 

This is Ron's writing and I don't see him wanting to bring Abby back. Then again with the new writers this could change. 

Theresa's 6 month sentence, 2 months after she had sex with both her ex husbands in one day, screamed a Ron who's the daddy plot. I pray that was killed with fire 

[BoredAtHome]

19 hours ago, SouthernChick said:

Bonnie was super annoying today. 

I had to mute the scenes. They were unwatchable.

[CanaryFan98]

12 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

Theresa's 6 month sentence, 2 months after she had sex with both her ex husbands in one day, screamed a Ron who's the daddy plot. I pray that was killed with fire 

Yeah I can see that being dropped as well tbh

[boes]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I like the AnnLynne Mccord character already. She brings great energy. Please, don't let her be Abigail. That'll ruin it!

I do too.  First time for me seeing this actress and she's really good, such a breath of fresh air.  Chad hasn't looked this alive since the last time he saw Sonny.  I'd rather she not be Abigail, too, but maybe she'll bring a different energy to the character if she is.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Jack's hair looks great. And MA hasn't been embarrassing me this go around so that's nice.

I agree, Jack's been looks great this go around, and this time he's not such an annoying mess like he was before he left.  Dialed back and toned down Jack is so much better IMO.

I liked the post wedding scenes with Fiona and liked Fiona with Brady.  Guess I just plain like Fiona.

Holly, on the other hand, can fall off the Smith Island Ferry never to be found again and I'd be fine with it.  She was undressing Old Teen Tate like she was opening a wrapped chicken.  The storyline with those two is unintentionally pretty funny and I don't mean that in a good way.  

[brisbydog]

8 minutes ago, boes said:

I do too.  First time for me seeing this actress and she's really good, such a breath of fresh air.  Chad hasn't looked this alive since the last time he saw Sonny.  I'd rather she not be Abigail, too, but maybe she'll bring a different energy to the character if she is.

I agree, Jack's been looks great this go around, and this time he's not such an annoying mess like he was before he left.  Dialed back and toned down Jack is so much better IMO.

I liked the post wedding scenes with Fiona and liked Fiona with Brady.  Guess I just plain like Fiona.

Holly, on the other hand, can fall off the Smith Island Ferry never to be found again and I'd be fine with it.  She was undressing Old Teen Tate like she was opening a wrapped chicken.  The storyline with those two is unintentionally pretty funny and I don't mean that in a good way.  

I like Fiona too. Best Brady pairing ever. I wonder what they'd be like sober though?

[DaphneCat]

3 hours ago, boes said:

The storyline with those two is unintentionally pretty funny and I don't mean that in a good way.

OK, the thing that really takes me out of any sort of reality is the fact that apparently it is a LAW that any time you have a cabin scene there MUST be a fire in the fire place.  People, it is August.  Is there any place other than the poles where it is cold enough to want a fire in August?  No, I do not believe there is.  Especially since this is supposed to be somewhere in the midwest.  It's generally really hot there in August as well.

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, brisbydog said:

No. It's more that Facebook has a lot of fake accounts that just post generic "I love this" with hearts and are clearly not real people. There are of course a few actual posters, but they are mainly patiently answering questions that anybody actually watching the show would know. Twitter is better because it's real people, and there are many differing opinions which I have no issues with. I was just citing that one recent example as it directly answered a question as to whether the promotions team are paying attention to social media.

Twitter is very much overrun with bots.  I'm pretty sure it's far easier (and valuable if you're a bot) to create multiple Twitter accounts than it is to create multiple Facebook accounts. 

I've found that every message board or social media tends to have preferences for different stories.  People on Twitter and Reddit might seem to hate something but then it gets tons of love on Tumblr and Instagram. 

[brisbydog]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Twitter is very much overrun with bots.  I'm pretty sure it's far easier (and valuable if you're a bot) to create multiple Twitter accounts than it is to create multiple Facebook accounts. 

I've found that every message board or social media tends to have preferences for different stories.  People on Twitter and Reddit might seem to hate something but then it gets tons of love on Tumblr and Instagram. 

On Twitter though I at least engage with real people. I am well aware of Twitter bots. Reddit is also real people at least on the Days boards. Instagram is harder because it's usually the actor's profiles and they are generally followed by people who love them. I see a lot of complaints on the peacock profile though. Tumblr I have not looked at since my Glee Fandom days... does it still exist lol

[MissPhoenixGirl]

13 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Yeah I can see that being dropped as well tbh

I wonder if the new writers are just simply going to have Theresa go back to California after her prison sentence is up or they are actually going to increase her prison sentence exponentially and she ends up spending several decades in prison? 

2 hours ago, brisbydog said:

On Twitter though I at least engage with real people. I am well aware of Twitter bots. Reddit is also real people at least on the Days boards. Instagram is harder because it's usually the actor's profiles and they are generally followed by people who love them. I see a lot of complaints on the peacock profile though. Tumblr I have not looked at since my Glee Fandom days... does it still exist lol

I know a lot of people say that the message boards/social media/whatever doesn't really represent the majority of fans, but I always thought that they are a good way to gauge what isn't working and what is. Also, how can you possibly tell what the majority of fans think when message boards and social media isn't really representative of that? 

[brisbydog]

It felt like this was intended to be a Monday episode and Friday should have ended with the car accident. Hence the full replays. Would have been far better than Connie telling Gabi about Stefan.

I figure Fiona drinks vodka cause it has no odour. Brady was sort of muttering, maybe he half moved himself with her help. Xander is never going to forgive his mum for this. But I bet Brady gets arrested and gets all of Xander's fury first. So messy. I hope John and Marlena remember him being parked in the wrong spot and question things.

I feel uncomfortable calling new girl Abby. There was a weird vibe at the end like she might be part of a scam. And Marlena mentioned Dr Greene was working tonight which made me wonder if he had access to the DNA tests. I'm perhaps too suspicious but no way is it this easy.

I have no comments on Leo. Is he paid by the word or something? Painful shit.

Edited August 14 by brisbydog

[DisneyBoy]

18 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Why is Chad reading them before the doctor? I like new girl but I don't need her to be Abby. Chad does though. I can't see a future for his character if she isn't.

Are they even acknowledging that she looks different now? I mean...if she was played by Marci or Kate, there would be no "is she Abigail?" question to answer. Chad would see her, know it's her and that would be that.

Remember when Hope thought she wasn't Hope, and everyone had to wait like, a year, for her to realize that yeah, she's Hope? It feels like they're trying to do that now maybe, but with a recast this doesn't work.

Anyway, how are they addressing her changed appearance?

 

[brisbydog]

Just now, DisneyBoy said:

Are they even acknowledging that she looks different now? I mean...if she was played by Marci or Kate, there would be no "is she Abigail?" question to answer. Chad would see her, know it's her and that would be that.

Remember when Hope thought she wasn't Hope, and everyone had to wait like, a year, for her to realize that yeah, she's Hope? It feels like they're trying to do that now maybe, but with a recast this doesn't work.

Anyway, how are they addressing her changed appearance?

 

She had an accident and full facial reconstruction, as you do.

, 

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, MissPhoenixGirl said:

I know a lot of people say that the message boards/social media/whatever doesn't really represent the majority of fans, but I always thought that they are a good way to gauge what isn't working and what is. Also, how can you possibly tell what the majority of fans think when message boards and social media isn't really representative of that? 

As I said above, you go to different sites on the internet and they often have vastly different perspectives about what stories are working or popular and which stories are not. 

But as for how networks know, I can't speak to daytime but I know in prime time they have other ways to know including analyzing data across all social media and non-social media feedback, ratings and focus groups.  In fact, just recently, a showrunner for a show I watch gave an interview where he basically said he's told by the network that things online fans like or want often differ quite a bit from things the general audience likes or wants.  There are plenty of times those overlap but the general audience doesn't analyze things as deeply as online fans do.  So when so many of us were up in arms about the "redemption" of Ben and the increasing snottiness of Ciara, general audience fans were probably simply vibing on their chemistry and didn't care as much about those things as many online fans did.

[brisbydog]

2 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

As I said above, you go to different sites on the internet and they often have vastly different perspectives about what stories are working or popular and which stories are not. 

But as for how networks know, I can't speak to daytime but I know in prime time they have other ways to know including analyzing data across all social media and non-social media feedback, ratings and focus groups.  In fact, just recently, a showrunner for a show I watch gave an interview where he basically said he's told by the network that things online fans like or want often differ quite a bit from things the general audience likes or wants.  There are plenty of times those overlap but the general audience doesn't analyze things as deeply as online fans do.  So when so many of us were up in arms about the "redemption" of Ben and the increasing snottiness of Ciara, general audience fans were probably simply vibing on their chemistry and didn't care as much about those things as many online fans did.

Agreed. Casual fans just love Leo when the opposite is true on line

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, MissPhoenixGirl said:

Also, how can you possibly tell what the majority of fans think when message boards and social media isn't really representative of that? 

Exactly. You can't. We have no idea how 'the majority' feels so there's no need to act like one's opinions are somehow better than another's because it's how 'the majority' feels.

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There are plenty of times those overlap but the general audience doesn't analyze things as deeply as online fans do. 

I wish that could be me lol.

Sort of loving that it seems like new girl is scamming Chad and co. Very into it.

I won't lie, I don't even remember anything else about today's episode.

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, also, my first thought when the DNA matched was, "Jack has another secret daughter!"

[sas616]

12 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, also, my first thought when the DNA matched was, "Jack has another secret daughter!"

And my thought was, "Please don't let this be Gwen."    It wouldn't surprise me if she got a new face so she could pretend to be Abigail (and get Chad too!).

[peachmangosteen]

Her being Gwen was my second thought lol.

[brisbydog]

19 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Her being Gwen was my second thought lol.

Gwen was a passing thought just because Leo kept mentioning her, but I was relieved at the end when it's somewhat clear she's a grifter. Either she's another unknown Jack daughter or someone messed with the DNA tests while Kayla hung out with Jack. Dr Greene was name dropped today which pinged my radar.  

[CanaryFan98]

41 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, also, my first thought when the DNA matched was, "Jack has another secret daughter!"

That's possible he's been gone for long periods of time but Jack wouldn't cheat on a Jennifer he knows is alive but then again this is the same show that had him sleep with Kate while Jennifer was in a coma.

The irony is I would've bought a Jack/Kate affair in the 90s not so much after that. 

I personally think it's related to Gwen I mean Leo has mentioned her lately but we haven't seen him talk to her have we? What if she's Gwen with plastic surgery?

Edited August 14 by CanaryFan98

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, they were definitely hinting at Gwen but I don’t know if they were true hints or misdirect.

You would really think at this point that Kayla would walk through the entire DNA process to prevent the ever prevalent changing of results in Salem.

[brisbydog]

There are many possibilities for another Jack daughter

1. A pregnancy a la Gwen before he came to town, during his time as a surfer dude before he forgot to swim, pre 1987

2. He got one of the many prostitutes he was screwing pregnant after Kayla left him and while he was engaged to Melissa in 1988.

3. My personal favourite: Eve had sex with him on their wedding night on 1991 when he was passed out and got pregnant. She left town with Frankie a few months later but we never heard what happened with them. 

However, I think it's none of the above and it's a grift.

49 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

That's possible he's been gone for long periods of time but Jack wouldn't cheat on a Jennifer he knows is alive but then again this is the same show that had him sleep with Kate while Jennifer was in a coma.

The irony is I would've bought a Jack/Kate affair in the 90s not so much after that. 

I personally think it's related to Gwen I mean Leo has mentioned her lately but we haven't seen him talk to her have we? What if she's Gwen with plastic surgery?

We saw Gwen in November last year. Chad phoned her to ask her to sell him her half of the paper 

[DisneyBoy]

1 hour ago, brisbydog said:

A pregnancy a la Gwen before he came to town

Let's - for the sake of this show - ban these words. Nothing good can come from attempting anything "a la Gwen" 😅

1 hour ago, brisbydog said:

during his time as a surfer dude before he forgot to swim, pre 1987

😲    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm sorry what now? 

1 hour ago, brisbydog said:

However, I think it's none of the above and it's a grift.

If that's how it pans out, what does the show have in mind for Chad? Falling for and forgiving the phony? Being back at square one again?

Edited August 15 by DisneyBoy