S01.E01: The Heirs of the Dragon

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

Viserys hosts a tournament to celebrate the birth of his second child. Rhaenyra welcomes her uncle Daemon back to the Red Keep.

Reminder: 

There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into any book talk you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read any of the related books to date. 

[Constantinople]

If Aegon's dream was passed down from King to heir, how could Viserys have ever heard it? Aegon's heir was his son Aenys, who succeeded his father as king. But Aenys was not succeeded by his son and heir, Aegon the Uncrowned. Instead, Aenys was succeeded by his brother Maegor, who turned Aegon the Uncrowned into Aegon the Street Pizza. I doubt Aegon the Uncrowned told Maegor, and Aegon the Uncrowned's daughter or daughters were about a year old. And if he told Maegor, I doubt Maegor told Jaehaerys.

So I guess we must presume Aegon the Uncrowned told someone else, such as his wife, Rhaena, who later told Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys then told Viserys. And now Viserys told Rhaenyra.

But it contradicts Viserys's claim that only the monarch and the heir know the secret.

[mac123x]

I liked the plot (very heavy Henry I / Matilda vibes especially with the fealty ceremony at the end).  The acting was acceptable to good.  The dialog was  exposition heavy with a lot of "you are so and so, here are your details that we both already know but the audience doesn't" talk, but that's forgivable for a pilot episodes.

Everything looked so cheap though.  Almost everything was filmed on a soundstage with green screen set extensions.  Even the jousting was filmed indoors.  (I shouldn't say "filmed" because it was all on HD digital TV.)  GoT filmed on locations on 4 different continents.  This was all in a warehouse in Leavesden.

Dragon CGI was okay in some places but wow did Daemon snuggling Caraxes looked awful. like he had a papier-mâché head prop to interact with and they did a lackluster job adding CG to it.

I was surprised when I saw that Miguel Sapochnik directed.  He did some of the better battle episodes of GoT, but the duel between Christon Cole and Daemon was nightmarishly bad.  I think I counted over a dozen quick-cuts in the space of 10 seconds.  I haven't seen fight choreography that bad since Black Widow.

Last complaint:  they didn't need the GoT tie in stuff at the end.  "See?  We're a prequel!".  I rolled my eyes at Aegon's prophecy, since we already know that defeating the Night King didn't require a Targaryen on the throne or a united kingdom:  all it needed was an small girl with a really good long jump.  The shot of Viserys handling the Valerian steel dagger that Arya used was so gratuitous that I actually said "fuck off" to the screen.

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

If Aegon's dream was passed down from King to heir, how could Viserys have ever heard it?

Bad writing.  They felt the need to tie this in to GoT with the prophecy BS, because they think the audience is stupid, and didn't consider that it was illogical.

Edited August 22, 2022 by mac123x

[SeanC]

I enjoyed the return to court politics, something that D&D were never good at writing when they didn't have GRRM's source material to fall back on (though admittedly, that's a long list of things).

Making Rhaenyra and Alicent the same age (and friends) is obviously the biggest change relative to the central premise, but that makes sense in terms of fleshing out character arcs from the rough plot synopsis.

[Constantinople]

9 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I rolled my eyes at Aegon's prophecy, since we already know that defeating the Night King didn't require a Targaryen on the throne or a united kingdom:  all it needed was an small girl with a really good long jump.  The shot of Viserys handling the Valerian steel dagger that Arya used was so gratuitous that I actually said "fuck off" to the screen.

LOL

[magdalene]

Given what I know about Criston Cole I find it funny that he looks just like a historical romance novel cover model.

What's the point of the prophesy?  We know how it all turns out and it was really underwhelming.

Edited August 22, 2022 by magdalene

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

I enjoyed the return to court politics, something that D&D were never good at writing when they didn't have GRRM's source material to fall back on (though admittedly, that's a long list of things).

Also GRRM on the writing staff. As far as I remember he wrote most of those dialogues. He left at some point during the writing of season 4 and it showed.

[Raachel2008]

14 hours ago, mac123x said:

Last complaint:  they didn't need the GoT tie in stuff at the end.  "See?  We're a prequel!".  I rolled my eyes at Aegon's prophecy, since we already know that defeating the Night King didn't require a Targaryen on the throne or a united kingdom:  all it needed was an small girl with a really good long jump.  The shot of Viserys handling the Valerian steel dagger that Arya used was so gratuitous that I actually said "fuck off" to the screen.

Bad writing.  They felt the need to tie this in to GoT with the prophecy BS, because they think the audience is stupid, and didn't consider that it was illogical.

To be fair what Viserys says is that when that 'when this great winter comes, Rhaenyra, all of Westeros must stand against it. And if the world of men is to survive, a Targaryen must be seated on the Iron Throne. A king or a queen, strong enough to unite the entire realm against the cold and the dark.' 

Depending on how you look at it.  you had the North, Starks, Arryns, Mormonsts, Knights of the Valley, Lannisters, free folk, Dohtraki, some Ironborn, the Insullied. Yara was backing up Dany in the south, Cersei's fall was just a matter of time. You had two Targaryens already rulling, Jon in the North and Dany in the Bay of Slaves. I don't think the Prophecy as Viserys told Rhaenyra is what we saw on screen, but it isn't thaaaat far away. The point there IMO is more to give the Targaryen in the line of sucession the idea that the Targs have another reason to rule; they are so special they will defeat the terrible enemy to come and it must be theeeeem, those special children. 

Also that couldn't have been Arya's dagger. Arya's dagger was a gift from Jon; he had a blacksmith made it for her as parting gift when she left for King's Landing with Ned and he to Castle Black. However, I do think they wanted to make it clear that she may have some traits in common with Arya,  free spirit/rebelioussness and all that. For the regular viewer, I mean.

[galaxygirl76]

33 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Also that couldn't have been Arya's dagger. Arya's dagger was a gift from Jon; he had a blacksmith made it for her as parting gift when she left for King's Landing with Ned and he to Castle Black. However, I do think they wanted to make it clear that she may have some traits in common with Arya,  free spirit/rebelioussness and all that. For the regular viewer, I mean.

That was Needle, the dagger is what she used to kill the Night King.

[mac123x]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

Also that couldn't have been Arya's dagger. Arya's dagger was a gift from Jon; he had a blacksmith made it for her as parting gift when she left for King's Landing with Ned and he to Castle Black.

The dagger Arya used to kill the Night King was (in GoT) the dagger that an assassin used to try to kill Bran in season 1.  I don't think they addressed it in the show, but in the books Joffrey took the dagger from Robert's massive collection of weapons and gave it to the assassin.  According to this show, it looks like it was passed down in the Targ family and Robert eventually got ahold of it.

[Raachel2008]

50 minutes ago, mac123x said:

The dagger Arya used to kill the Night King was (in GoT) the dagger that an assassin used to try to kill Bran in season 1.  I don't think they addressed it in the show, but in the books Joffrey took the dagger from Robert's massive collection of weapons and gave it to the assassin.  According to this show, it looks like it was passed down in the Targ family and Robert eventually got ahold of it.

Oh, my mistaken then. Got it.

[Constantinople]

Quote

These knights are as green as summer grass - Princess Rhaenys

Green is the color of life! ? The color of that beautiful summer grass that she disdains!

Anyone who disses the color green deserves to be passed over by the Great Council!

[Maisiesmom]

I need some sigils. Anyone? Thanks!

[Constantinople]

Quote

Your Queen is a strong woman - Grand Maester Mellos to Viserys about Aemma

Nice bit of foreshadowing even if it was unintentional.

Mellos used the word "Queen" to mean "Queen Consort". At the end of the episode, Viserys names Rhaenyra as heir, i.e, he names her the future Queen, as in female monarch or Queen Regnant.

So Mellos is foreshadowing that Visery's chosen successor is a "Strong woman".

Edited August 23, 2022 by Constantinople

[Affogato]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:03 PM, magdalene said:

Given what I know about Criston Cole I find it funny that he looks just like a historical romance novel cover model.

What's the point of the prophesy?  We know how it all turns out and it was really underwhelming.

I;'m not completely sure the story is over. for one thing they were toying with a show about what Jon does afterwards. Of course the show deviated from the books, but the books aren't finished yet. We also might find out that something that happens in this story changes the prophesy in some way. Anyway, at least the targaryens basing their shenanigans on dreams is consistent. 

[CountryGirl]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:03 PM, magdalene said:

Given what I know about Criston Cole I find it funny that he looks just like a historical romance novel cover model.

Yummy is more the adjective I was thinking of. 😁

[Meredith Quill]

@CountryGirl Have you read any of the books/novellas?

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

@CountryGirl Have you read any of the books/novellas?

I’ve only read the ASOIAF books thus far. 

[Meredith Quill]

29 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I’ve only read the ASOIAF books thus far. 

Gotcha, it's all good. I was just worried about your innocence and wanted to check that you were aware there's a good chance of being spoiled by coming in here if you haven't read the related story, heh.

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Yummy is more the adjective I was thinking of. 😁

Yes, he is very pretty 

Spoiler

on the outside. Turncoat and traitor.

[CountryGirl]

35 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Gotcha, it's all good. I was just worried about your innocence and wanted to check that you were aware there's a good chance of being spoiled by coming in here if you haven't read the related story, heh.

I appreciate it but no worries. 😉 I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the show and the commentary. Even having read the GoT books, there were still twists and surprises in the show and I’m sure there will be some of that in this show as well. 

[mrspidey]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:31 AM, mac123x said:

I liked the plot (very heavy Henry I / Matilda vibes especially with the fealty ceremony at the end).

Well, the Dance is inspired by the Anarchy so that's probably deliberate.

[Meredith Quill]

2 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Well, the Dance is inspired by the Anarchy so that's probably deliberate.

As an aside, if anyone is curious about the Anarchy because it's what Dance is based on, I highly recommend a dramatic mini series from around ten years ago called The Pillars of the Earth, which is set during that period and has a number of famous faces in it.

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, SilverStormm said:

As an aside, if anyone is curious about the Anarchy because it's what Dance is based on, I highly recommend a dramatic mini series from around ten years ago called The Pillars of the Earth, which is set during that period and has a number of famous faces in it.

I'll second this recommendation. 

It doesn't hurt that it has the delicious Rufus Sewell as Tom the Builder.

[kassandra8286]

I haven't read Fire and Blood but I read the two novellas lifted from it. What I'm excited about is is seeing the rather dry and cursory telling of the tale in book form brought to life and fleshed out on TV with (hopefully) great dialogue and characterizations. I loved the first episode and I'm super psyched to see it all unfold. I also read that there will be opening credits starting next week. I hope they're epic.

Although the first episode got super high ratings which is great, I have to think that a portion of the viewers, particularly the ones who loved GOT mainly for the Starks, will drop off as the series progresses. There aren't any conventional heroes in this tale, everyone is pretty awful. That doesn't bother me, as I don't need characters to be rootable as long as they're interesting, and the politics and scheming in GOT was my favorite part, but a lot of viewers don't feel the same. I do wonder how they'll eventually end the series. It's so dark. I hope we're not left too depressed, lol.

Edited August 24, 2022 by kassandra8286

[Raachel2008]

46 minutes ago, kassandra8286 said:

I haven't read Fire and Blood but I read the two novellas lifted from it. What I'm excited about is is seeing the rather dry and cursory telling of the tale in book form brought to life and fleshed out on TV with (hopefully) great dialogue and characterizations. I loved the first episode and I'm super psyched to see it all unfold. I also read that there will be opening credits starting next week. I hope they're epic.

Although the first episode got super high ratings which is great, I have to think that a portion of the viewers, particularly the ones who loved GOT mainly for the Starks, will drop off as the series progresses. There aren't any conventional heroes in this tale, everyone is pretty awful. That doesn't bother me, as I don't need characters to be rootable as long as they're interesting, and the politics and scheming in GOT was my favorite part, but a lot of viewers don't feel the same. I do wonder how they'll eventually end the series. It's so dark. I hope we're not left too depressed, lol.

In my corner of the world a few jouralists were able to see the first six episodes (provided by HBO, all legal and such) and they said it is all

Spoiler

very contained, very Tagaryen centric. Some praised it comparing the show to Sucession and saying that differenttly than GoT it doesn't have 'parallel stories that don't get you nowhere' - whatever it means.

I take that these folks didn't like all that for me made GoT: the scenes/plot that didn't realy advance the story but settled that universe.

[WearyTraveler]

8 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

As an aside, if anyone is curious about the Anarchy because it's what Dance is based on, I highly recommend a dramatic mini series from around ten years ago called The Pillars of the Earth, which is set during that period and has a number of famous faces in it.

As an aside to your aside, the series is based on a book by the same name by Ken Follet. He used to write spy novels and suddenly came up with that book, which is the best he's ever written, IMO. I didn't see the series but the book was excellent!

[Meredith Quill]

Yeah, I knew it was a Ken Follet book and keep saying I'm going to read it but never have got around to it. Anyhoo, we've gone off topic now so I'll leave it at that.

[ursula]

Laena and Rhaenyra were the close friends in the books. I understand ageing Alicent down because the drama of friends turning into enemies is more interesting. But I don't know why they couldn't have kept them a trio of friends. 

Especially since Rhaenys and Corlys now look more like grandparents than parents of their children. 

[SharonH58]

On 8/24/2022 at 5:36 PM, SilverStormm said:

Yeah, I knew it was a Ken Follet book and keep saying I'm going to read it but never have got around to it. Anyhoo, we've gone off topic now so I'll leave it at that.

i tried twice to read that book and gave up at the same part.  Not too far in.