S03.E02: Game Changer

[tessaray]

Release Date: June 17, 2022

A commercial spaceflight company makes an announcement. The choice over who'll command the Mars mission leads to a shift in personnel.

[Anduin]

Margo and Molly both have fair points as to who they want on the mission and why. However, given my dislike of both bureaucracy and absolute power, I'd have to give the edge to Molly. Bad call, Margo. Put your person on the mission if you want, but getting rid of Molly? I wonder if Ed will recruit her to help find more people.

Not a fan of where this Danny storyline seems to be headed. I don't watch for the soap elements. Maybe I'll change my mind, but we'll see.

Ah, Ellen. Much like Ed, an American hero! Much like Ed, played by a foreigner. Not that I'm complaining, I've never set foot in the Americas. Furthermore, Jodi Balfour is from the best hemisphere. Also, I'm doubtful about her running mate. Bragg? Whatever his name is, he's totally going to stab her in the back on some big issue, isn't he?

Oh, but she and Larry have a kid! I suppose I'm happy for them, though I remember last season she wasn't interested.

As a side note, the show is catching up with life that I can remember. Ellen's style in particular really felt familiar. Good to see the wardrobe/hair/makeup people are upholding the standard.

So next week, NASA better get their backsides in gear. The Russians too. Some of their existing spacecraft can be repurposed. But what do they have that's big enough to send? Maybe a fleet of smaller ships would do the job.

[PurpleTentacle]

I meantioned it last week, but how Molly treats her dog really grinds my gears. Leaving the harness on all the time and making the dog work for trips in a building, you should know like the back of your hand? Not cool. Seeing eye dogs are for navigating the world, not your office. Also not a great idea to leave the dog in work-mode all the time, for yourself. Do you want it to walk you into traffic at the end of the day because it is overworked and exhausted?

It always annoys me a bit when they show communication between the moon and earth as instant. The moon is 1,25 light seconds away from earth. That might not seem like that much but in a communication it's a bunch. You'll constantly interrupt each other unless you are very discliplined, which a call to your father and son clearly won't be. (The Expanse incorporated that delay pretty well. So it can be done.) They even mentioned the delay with the 8 minutes to Mars. Don't mention that stuff if you ignore it in the same episode! - Also regarding the call: thank you captain exposition. I'm sure you didn't tell your son what you were doing there before you flew to the moon, so you had to tell him on the call. Suuuure.

I totally called Ed flying the hotel to Mars early in the episode, shortly after he was snubbed for the NASA mission.

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

Margo and Molly both have fair points as to who they want on the mission and why. However, given my dislike of both bureaucracy and absolute power, I'd have to give the edge to Molly. Bad call, Margo. Put your person on the mission if you want, but getting rid of Molly? I wonder if Ed will recruit her to help find more people.

I have to agree. And to be honest, I'm not sure Ed is wrong. I know Danielle is a very experienced astronaut, but I'm not sure if the optics weren't what put her over the top. I agree with Molly's assesment that a great scientist isn't needed on the first flight, that that one needs a great pilot.

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

Not a fan of where this Danny storyline seems to be headed. I don't watch for the soap elements. Maybe I'll change my mind, but we'll see.

I predict some attempted murder and ensuing turmoil because he's a famous astronaut and how that reflects on NASA.

2 hours ago, Anduin said:

Ah, Ellen. Much like Ed, an American hero! Much like Ed, played by a foreigner. Not that I'm complaining, I've never set foot in the Americas. Furthermore, Jodi Balfour is from the best hemisphere. Also, I'm doubtful about her running mate. Bragg? Whatever his name is, he's totally going to stab her in the back on some big issue, isn't he?

I predict the "some issue" will be funding for the Mars mission, since his position will be that private enterprise will do it better and cheaper. Gotta tie her storyline into the space race somehow.

[Anduin]

29 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I meantioned it last week, but how Molly treats her dog really grinds my gears. Leaving the harness on all the time and making the dog work for trips in a building, you should know like the back of your hand? Not cool. Seeing eye dogs are for navigating the world, not your office. Also not a great idea to leave the dog in work-mode all the time, for yourself. Do you want it to walk you into traffic at the end of the day because it is overworked and exhausted?

I predict the "some issue" will be funding for the Mars mission, since his position will be that private enterprise will do it better and cheaper. Gotta tie her storyline into the space race somehow.

While I think it's funny than Molly's dog has the same temperament as her, I wonder if the writers actually consulted with an expert on blindness and assistance issues. For all that the science is pretty good, I get the issues you're talking about.

No, Bragg isn't a big business guy. He comes from the religious side of the party. Given they talked about stem cells, I predict something more in the science field. Okay, here's a really big guess. Transhumanism. Altering humans to survive better on Mars. Maybe even growing the first generation of altered Martians in test tubes, or however it's done. He'd shut that down in no time flat. However, is the show really going to go there? It might be too big of an issue to handle on TV.

Oh, and I figured out what Ellen reminded me of this ep. I'm sure Scully had that same or very similar look at some point during the X-Files.

[PurpleTentacle]

5 hours ago, Anduin said:

No, Bragg isn't a big business guy. He comes from the religious side of the party.

He comes from the right wing nutjob side of the party. Yes, those people pretend to be very religious, but mainly they are about money, "small government" and pleasing big corporations.

I don't think we are far enough into Mars colonisation for transhumanism. I mean the Mars mission is in 96 and even with two terms she'd only be president till 2001. So funding is really the only thing I can think off that would tie that story into the space race.

[CarpeFelis]

50 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

He comes from the right wing nutjob side of the party. Yes, those people pretend to be very religious, but mainly they are about money, "small government" and pleasing big corporations.

THIS. I can’t help thinking it won’t be long before Ellen really, really regrets picking him.

For that matter, I don’t really understand why Ellen ever let Larry talk her into politics. Mars is her dream, and yes, as a politician she can advocate for it, but… in her shoes I’d want to be actually going to Mars. If Ed and Dani aren’t too old, neither is she.

Danny… ughhhhh. Dude is starting to look more than a bit psycho. Him on a mission to Mars… gee, what could possibly go wrong? And boy, do I feel sorry for Amber when she finally realizes just what she married.

9 hours ago, Anduin said:

Margo and Molly both have fair points as to who they want on the mission and why. However, given my dislike of both bureaucracy and absolute power, I'd have to give the edge to Molly. Bad call, Margo. Put your person on the mission if you want, but getting rid of Molly? I wonder if Ed will recruit her to help find more people.

I loved the scene with Molly smoking a joint in the bathtub and rooting for Ed. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he recruited her. As for their choices of mission commander: Ed may have a slight edge for the first mission because he was a test pilot, but honestly if I were one of the astronauts on the mission, I’d much prefer working with Dani. 100% less arrogant.

As for Ed’s comments to Dani at the Outpost: WOW. That was over the top offensive. Even being drunk doesn’t excuse it.

And speaking of drunk: I wondered last episode whether Ed’s wife was an alcoholic. Kelly asked whether Yvonne wrapped another car around a tree so I guess that pretty much answers that question!

[marinw]

I'm suprised it took this long for Margo to fire Molly. Her crankiness had probably lost its' charm years ago.

Strapping an experiemental engine on a hotel than almost fell apart and aiming it towards Mars with an increadibly short launch window seems like a really, really stupid idea.

On a shallow note, I loved the green dress that Karen wore she went to meet Dev. Dev is running a "Collective" that's going to launch something towards Mars. Interesting. Even civilian ships have a hierarachical command structure.

A slow episode, but I never get tired of figureing out how the technology in the 90's FAMverse is more advanced than in our own verse. Flat screened computers, electric cars and phones with video capabilty.

I wonder how Bragg will react when he learns about Ellen's sexuality. I'm assumeing she hasn't come out. 

ED's comment to Dani about a "Level playing field" was so gross.

[Anduin]

9 minutes ago, marinw said:

Dev is running a "Collective" that's going to launch something towards Mars. Interesting. Even civilian ships have a hierarachical command structure.

I wonder how Bragg will react when he learns about Ellen's sexuality. I'm assumeing she hasn't come out.

Yes, that's something Ed will have to introduce. But can he make that omelet without breaking eggs? Creating hard feelings?

As a side note, I remembered what Helios reminded me of. You know how you hear the stories about the early days of big tech companies? Like Apple and Google? The kind of tech hippy attitude before they wind up with the regular corporate structure. That's Helios.

Bragg will react badly. He might even try to force her out of the top job. Unless he decides to blackmail her instead, and become the power behind the throne.

[Arynm]

Ellen has been "lucky" so far and no one has turned on her and ratted her out. It is only a matter of time, she is going for the highest office in the land, someone will talk. It's a wonder no one has said something before. Bragg will have a field day with a closeted gay Republican.

I think that he will be so horrified about a Lesbian Woman in his Republican party he won't be able to keep it inside and renounce her.

[Glade]

It's pathetic watching narcissistic ego-driven boomers whining about losing their feifdoms. I approve of a committee of scientists making the selections instead of one person. And Ed's bullshit affirmative action comment, as if he hasn't had a head start over most black people his whole life, and indeed, at the end of the episode he falls upward when she would have been stuck waiting until 98.

I like that Helios is a democratic cooperative; star trek was dead wrong in claiming that the future is top-down heirarchial structures. 

Ross Perot and his reform party played a huge role in Clinton's victories, especially after he betrayed the democratic base to champion conservative policies. Does Perot exist in this timeline, or will Bill Clinton leave Monica alone and be a better president? Ellen just got her Palin-esque running mate, so I see little hope for her.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Glade

[marinw]

9 hours ago, Glade said:

I approve of a committee of scientists making the selections instead of one person

Agreed. That One Person has way too much power. The Lab Coats will be more objective, although I should emphasize that the subjective decision is often the correct one.

I am Team Dani/NASA. I am spoiler-free, but I can easily see Dani's crew  having to Rescue Ed and his Hotel-Spaceship.

Sending Danny to Mars would solve Karen's stalking problem.

Edited June 18, 2022 by marinw

[Joimiaroxeu]

Loved Karen's pantsuit in the opening. I would wear that today.

Geez, only Karen could come out of a disaster like Polaris and get paid for her troubles.

Loved Ollie's little growl after Molly threw her hissy fit to Margo's staff. He was like, "And don't you forget it!"

At first I thought Ed had major hip issues when he was limping. Did we ever find out why he was giving himself an injection in the first episode?

Danny is nuts. Complete bananas. Cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Surely Karen's stuff wasn't that good.

McCain wasn't going to be anybody's second-in-command anyway. Ditto comments upthread, Ellen getting in bed with extreme right Christians probably won't bode well if they find out what she's hiding. Maybe they'll learn about her husband instead and she can pretend to play the martyr.

Danielle's Dooney & Burke shoulder bag. Check. Wardrobe details still on point.

"Just say no" co-opted for Ellen's presidential campaign. Heh.

Molly didn't think she could be fired for such flagrant insubordination?

Good grief, someone's going to end up dead behind Danny's obsession with Karen. Or in jail.

Ed likely isn't going to fit in at a place trying to run itself as a corporate democracy. Eventually he'll want everyone just to do what he says, including Dev. Maybe Karen will have to become the Ed Whisperer.

Lol, was stalker Danny about to cry when he heard the latest Helios news? My favorite comment from reddit:

Quote

Danny's going to end up driving 127.98 million miles in a diaper to attack Ed.

[xaxat]

Ed's sense of entitlement was not a good look.  In addition, he just decided to take his daughter along? Did he ask Karen about that?

So, it looks like they going to make Danny a fictional version of Lisa Nowak, the real life NASA astronaut who aggressively stalked a perceived rival in a love triangle?

I am totally baffled by what they are doing with Ellen. It's almost like she's not a lesbian any more. She is still married to Larry, they have a kid and in what I see as an incredibly cynical move, she is willing to court evangelical Christians for personal gain. Earlier seasons dealt with the burden of her being in the closet, but "poof", not a problem now.

I hope we see Molly's significant other. They were the personal story I really liked.

Aspects of this episode reminded me of the movie The Right Stuff. Specifically, when Chuck Yeager realizes his day is done and NASA is a made for Life Magazine production.

[CarpeFelis]

11 hours ago, Glade said:

It's pathetic watching narcissistic ego-driven boomers whining about losing their feifdoms. I approve of a committee of scientists making the selections instead of one person.

I agree, except Ed and Molly aren’t boomers. Their generation would be the parents of the boomers.

[Anduin]

I just had a crazy thought. What if Ellen is expecting Bragg to try and backstab her? What if she's accounted for that possibility and knows how to rein him in? But that might be getting too much into the political aspect.

[Dev F]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:57 AM, Glade said:

Ross Perot and his reform party played a huge role in Clinton's victories, especially after he betrayed the democratic base to champion conservative policies. Does Perot exist in this timeline, or will Bill Clinton leave Monica alone and be a better president? Ellen just got her Palin-esque running mate, so I see little hope for her.

Per the supplemental videos about the alt-history, Perot is indeed running, "on a platform of balancing the budget and ending the outsourcing of American energy and jobs to the Moon."

20 hours ago, xaxat said:

I am totally baffled by what they are doing with Ellen. It's almost like she's not a lesbian any more. She is still married to Larry, they have a kid and in what I see as an incredibly cynical move, she is willing to court evangelical Christians for personal gain. Earlier seasons dealt with the burden of her being in the closet, but "poof", not a problem now.

I don't know why we'd assume it isn't a problem anymore. She and her husband are deeply in the closet, which is obviously part of the subtext of her anxiety about tapping Governor Bragg as a running mate.

It's also worth remembering that although Clinton ended up introducing the military's Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, Clinton actually campaigned on allowing gay Americans to serve openly in the military. If alt-Clinton does the same, it'll put Ellen in quite a tricky spot.

I imagine that gay astronauts will be a bigger part of that debate in the FAMiverse, which makes me wonder whether Sally Ride will make a return

Edited June 19, 2022 by Dev F

[PurpleTentacle]

22 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Molly didn't think she could be fired for such flagrant insubordination?

For doing her job?

22 hours ago, xaxat said:

Ed's sense of entitlement was not a good look.  In addition, he just decided to take his daughter along? Did he ask Karen about that?

He put her in his wish list. He didn't decide anything unilaterally.

Also if somebody who's job it is to choose the commanders told you you were going to Mars, wouldn't you feel entitled to actually go?!

22 hours ago, xaxat said:

I am totally baffled by what they are doing with Ellen. It's almost like she's not a lesbian any more. She is still married to Larry, they have a kid and in what I see as an incredibly cynical move, she is willing to court evangelical Christians for personal gain. Earlier seasons dealt with the burden of her being in the closet, but "poof", not a problem now.

I mean we only saw her for a second. Lesbians don't kiss other women 24/7.

On 6/18/2022 at 10:57 AM, Glade said:

It's pathetic watching narcissistic ego-driven boomers whining about losing their feifdoms. I approve of a committee of scientists making the selections instead of one person.

That's seems to be a bit reductive when their argument is that people who have actually been up there should decide who gets command. They are right, the committee isn't going to die when the shitty commander flies the craft into the moon instead of landing on it.

You could have made it a committee of astronauts, or a mix, but no, because they would have been less easy to control. I'm sure Molly is right. The committee is a bunch of yes-men picked specifically to rubber stamp Margo's decisions. Because well, we know Margo and look what happened.

Edited June 19, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

For doing her job?

Yes. Molly knew she doing an end run while Margo was out of town and assumed Margo wouldn't overturn what she did. She assumed wrong and paid the price.

[PurpleTentacle]

14 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Yes. Molly knew she doing an end run while Margo was out of town and assumed Margo wouldn't overturn what she did. She assumed wrong and paid the price.

That is what happened. It still wasn't "flagrant insubordination". It's Molly's job to assign flight crews. She hadn't gotten any direct order from her boss that she couldn't. Likely because Margo didn't want to be seen as the dictator she is. So it was well within Molly's purview to assign a commander to the Mars mission.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

So it was well within Molly's purview to assign a commander to the Mars mission.

It was but she knew Margo didn't want Ed to lead the Mars mission. Molly set up a deliberate challenge of her job authority versus Margo's, and used Ed as a chess piece to do it. If Margo hadn't shut Molly down she'd be in a position of constantly having to worry how Molly would undermine her next. Plus Molly treated Margo (and Margo's staff) with barely-veiled contempt. She and her disrespectful behavior had to go. And her little dog too.

Molly will likely follow Ed to Helios. She'll be fine.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[Accidental Martyr]

I have just about zero interest in the Psycho Danny storyline.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Accidental Martyr said:

I have just about zero interest in the Psycho Danny storyline.

This. Like I said in the S2 thread, that storyline was creepy considering that Karen had practically raised Danny while Tracy was in astronaut training - there was nothing "romantic" about it. I could kind of understand 20-year-old Danny having a crush on her, but Karen, as the adult and de-facto mother figure, should have put a stop to it. And now for Danny to still not be over her several years later as a grown man is just preposterous.

[whiporee]

The Margo-Molly conflict shows a few things. One of them is that things have been going petty well for NASA and space in general -- pre Polaris anyway -- that Margo feels that someone with conflict management skills isn't necessary. Ed's been in conflicts; Dani seeks cooperation. Just like Margo. If things get rough on or on the way to Mars, Ed will have experience dealign with it. He's been a fighter pilot -- he's had direct confrontation with the Soviets more than once. Dani has mostly acted to get along -- she's someone who seeks cooperation and win-win situations. it's why she broke her arm for Gordo, and why she pushed to make Apollo-Soyuz happen. 

Margo is the same way. She's more than happy to help out the Soviets. But she's never had a gun pointed out at her, either. 

But Molly was very right about one thing. Ed wants to WIN. He would NOT let Apollo 10 happen again. And when a race has the level of stakes this one might have, the point is going to be to win, not tie. 

[marinw]

4 hours ago, whiporee said:

Ed wants to WIN. He would NOT let Apollo 10 happen again. And when a race has the level of stakes this one might have, the point is going to be to win, not tie. 

So I think in the FamVerse the Cold War is still in play? Being first to Mars will give the nation who does this bragging rights, but in the end what diffrence will it make? You can't lay claim to an entire planet or moon by landing there first. I'd rather get to Mars in one piece a little latter than the nation who gets there in several pieces.

There is a diffrence between takes calculated risks, even large ones, but in the need to win Ed could be reckless. His pouting over loseing the first trip to Mars was a contrast to Dani's earlier stoic resignation. That said, loseing the mission would be more devastiatng for Ed than Dani becuase he had it, and then lost it. That sucks. Also, Ed is older than Dani so the mission would have been his only chance to get to Mars, at least by commanding a NASA mission. I am not without sympathy for Ed, but Dani is the better choice.

Edited June 22, 2022 by marinw

[Accidental Martyr]

How old are the characters supposed to be at this point?

[whiporee]

Not only is the Cold War still happening, but the US is losing it to a scary extent. According to the map in the premier, the Soviets now have influence/ control over all of South and Central America -- I can't see a world where the US tolerated that. Space is seen as the way the two teams show their superiority, and it's not one the US can afford to lose.

The difference between Ed and Dani's reactions was telling but not unsurprising. Dani would not have really expected the assignment, but Ed would have. From a PR standpoint, I'm surprised this wasn't a Presidential decision, especially with a Democratic president supporting a Democratic nominee running against a former astronaut -- the last thing any incumbent would want to do is give Ellen a chance to talk about her good friend Danielle Poole being chosen to lead the mission. Ed had been an American hero for two generations -- he stared down the Soviets in space; he survived months on the moon by himself. And he's put in a solid decade more of experience than Dani has. While I can see the logic of him being too old, I can't see the logic of choosing Dani over him, unless Margo is trying to make a point herself.

That factored into Molly's position as well. It's easy to forget, but Margo told Tracey to let Molly die. Meanwhile. Molly went beyond mission parameters to find ice, get Eulie a few more months of life, and was telling Tracy to let her go. Molly understands sacrifice; Margo understands sacrificing others. And she's a traitor, but that's a whole different story. 

As good a character as she is, Dani is about Dani, and every bit about her legacy as Ed is. Granted, she hurt herself to save Gordo. But subsequently, she took time off, came back and demanded command. She got it. During that command she ignored orders -- and remember her speech. it wasn't about doing this to save the world or make a statement, it was that SHE was tired of being treated this way by NASA. It did end up working, but compare it to Molly's ice capades. Molly went off script to find ice -- to finish the mission for the mission's sake. Dani finished her mission for her own reasons. 

If they wanted to make it a case of Ed being too old for such a long mission, then that would make sense. But it's also not fair to suggest Margo wasn't making a point, either, or that Ed's drunken argument didn't hold water. Margo is making every bit a political point with Dani's appointment as Ed was accusing her of. Dani was resentful of the implication, but it's also reasonable to remember she and her family were making the same assumptions about Ed when he was named commander. The difference was that she didn't say it to Ed, which is a big difference. But she still assumed it, still insinuated and still clearly felt it. I didn't like how the show turned this into Ed as bitter old white guy justifiably replaced  by Dani as gracious and totally deserving black woman. Molly was playing politics, so was Margo. And I hope the backlash of that battle is show on the show instead of being ignored. 

[marinw]

Thank you for your insights @whiporee. I need to go back and rewatch the part about Soviet control you refrenced, it was only onscreen for a few seconds.

Although the Cold War isstill in play, I do NOT want this show to get too dark. There are plenty of dark alternate histories, FAM is doing something different. I love how optimistic it is about the technology related to space travel beneifits people on Earth, such as how Climate Change is not as big a threat as it is in our own reality.

Edited June 23, 2022 by marinw

[Dobian]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:23 PM, marinw said:

A slow episode, but I never get tired of figureing out how the technology in the 90's FAMverse is more advanced than in our own verse. Flat screened computers, electric cars and phones with video capabilty.

I thought the 80s was too advanced in season 2, but this is ridiculous.  The technology in this alternate history was exactly the same in 1969 as in our history.  How the hell could they have smartphones and FaceTime just 23 years later?  And hotels in orbit already?  And then there was the Google-style campus with the dual flatscreen monitors.  I don’t buy the show runner’s argument that the space race caused a huge tech explosion with heavy investment in technology.  We had that without a space race.  It’s called Silicon Valley.  And we’re still behind the advancements on this show 30 years in the future.

[xaxat]

15 hours ago, Dobian said:

I don’t buy the show runner’s argument that the space race caused a huge tech explosion with heavy investment in technology

I think the premise that the Soviets won the race to the moon explains it pretty well. In out universe,  people (and the government) lose interest in the moon after a handful of landings, the budget for NASA decreases and everybody moved on. In the alt u, military and political pressures result in the establishment of a permanent base on the moon. Concepts  like the NERVA nuclear engine and the Sea Dragon never went beyond prototypes in our world, but in the alt u they became operational.

Imagine if the military/industrial complex that got the US from suborbital flights to the lunar landing in about a decade kept going full bore decades longer.

[Dobian]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:17 PM, xaxat said:

I think the premise that the Soviets won the race to the moon explains it pretty well. In out universe,  people (and the government) lose interest in the moon after a handful of landings, the budget for NASA decreases and everybody moved on. In the alt u, military and political pressures result in the establishment of a permanent base on the moon. Concepts  like the NERVA nuclear engine and the Sea Dragon never went beyond prototypes in our world, but in the alt u they became operational.

Imagine if the military/industrial complex that got the US from suborbital flights to the lunar landing in about a decade kept going full bore decades longer.

Yes but I am talking about the tech explosion in computer technology.  That has nothing to do with NASA budgets.  We had that in Silicon Valley in the 80s and 90s.  Our advancement in computer technology in those decades was exponential.  You would have to argue how the space race in the alternate universe resulted in taking that tech explosion and tripling it, to where we had smartphones and high speed internet in 1992.  Commercially no less.  That simply is not feasible or plausible in any alternate history where you state that in 1969 the technological level is virtually identical in all the alternate histories.  You can't go from the primitive computer tech we had in 1969 (Apollo 11 had computer power that was a fraction of the power of my FitBit) to full-on 5G and 4K 25 years later in any scenario.  Not to mention all the other evolutions that happen in this AU in this short time frame such as hierarchical white collar corporations like IBM giving way to organizational collectives like Google.  That's a social shift that has nothing to do with space races or government funding.  And of course the commercialization of space, which is independent of any space race.  We are only now scratching the surface of commercial space travel in the 2020s.

Honestly, they did this because they needed to accelerate these advancements to fit into the timeline of the main characters so they wouldn't have to bring in new characters in later seasons to carry out the main plot.  But it's far-fetched.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Dobian

[AnnieBananie]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:39 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Danielle's Dooney & Burke shoulder bag. Check. Wardrobe details still on point.

I have that bag! (Granted, I stole it from my mom's closet, but fashion is forever!)

Count me among those who see Danny being a bunny boiler. Let Karen go, buddy. Focus on your lovely wife. (For what it's worth, Kelly's infatuation with him seemed to wane pretty quickly.)

[txhorns79]

On 6/18/2022 at 3:39 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Danny is nuts. Complete bananas. Cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Surely Karen's stuff wasn't that good.

A thousand times this.  It's supposed to have nearly been a decade since their one night stand (unless there is more to the story that I don't know yet).  Unless her vagina grants magic wishes to all who pleasure it, I cannot imagine this kind of obsession unless the guy is seriously mentally ill.