S04.E02: Kiss Me and Smile for Me

[Scarlett45]

Quote

Callie's mom and Mariana's mom arrive for a surprise dinner; Davia tells Gael about Matt and gets a call from work; Malika wonders about politics; Joaquin is interested in the timeline of the Coterie.

 

Air Date: March 16, 2022

 

[Brian Cronin]

I mean, whatever, you can't force an actor to stay in a role if they don't want to, so I can't begrudge the show, but wow, what a huge blow to the show overall. 

[possibilities]

Is that what happened, Maia wanted out? I had hoped maybe they were spinning Callie off to her own show, and I just hadn't heard about it. I know Callie wasn't popular as a character, but I liked her. I liked that she was cause-driven and I think she added a lot of depth to the show. I hope they don't just turn into a totally generic young folks having angst soap opera.

New Dude looking for his missing sister is not what I expected. I thought he was going to turn out to be a journalist infiltrating them to do a hit piece on dirty hippies or something like that. I definitely thought he was up to no good. I still kind of do. Why would the sister disappear like that, unless she was fleeing abuse of some kind. Maybe she's the mystery woman Alice rents the place from. No one ever explained why whoever held the place was no longer there and was renting it to the collective (or if they did explain it, I don't remember).

[bybrandy]

I read an interview where she said that being away from home (Australia) was always hard but the pandemic made it so much harder since she couldn't travel as much and then if anything happened and she'd missed so many things being here working.  Which I get.   She told everybody during season 3 but they asked her to come back to give her a proper goodbye rather than a tacked on bit at the end of the season 3  finale.  Callie always drove me crazy but I feel like losing her is also a really, really, really big hole.   

Like this bothers me way more than I would have ever guessed.  She got less irritating to me after they quit with the Callie and Brandon stuff.  

 

[possibilities]

I guess they're not planning to have her stay in touch by zoom, or film scenes from Australia masquerading as DC, then. Hmmmn.

 

[Brian Cronin]

I think over time, we'll definitely see her again (if the show even gets renewed with its biggest star gone, of course). 

A few real life things that occurred to me with her departure...

1. It's gotta be rough to be the dude who plays Jamie and be told, "Yeah, sorry, she's leaving, so you lost your job, too."

2. I would love to know whether Freeform knew she was leaving when the show was renewed for Season 4.  You'd have to tell them, right? But she DID technically return, so maaaaybe not? I wonder....

3. This explains the show's willingness to add two regular cast members so late in the run. Freeform tends not to roll like that with the casting budgets. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Brian Cronin

[circumvent]

Never cared for Callie, thought she was the weakest link in the show. Never cared for Maia either but it is understandable that she quit, according to the explanations she gives on her Instagram. I am not on Instagram and I am not sure if you have to sign up to see the posts. I saw on a friend's account. These past years have been hard for so many people, she is hardly the only person to give up a job because relationships have a whole new meaning for many of us. I wonder if that was part of why she looks so thin because, to me, she doesn't look good at all. Apparently it was something the whole cast and crew knew and they changed the plots to work around her request, that's why she came back, to have a proper send out.

 

[KaveDweller]

I understand Maia wanting to leave, but I will definitely miss Callie on the show. She could be frustrating, but I also feel like she was the heart of the show. I am glad her exit was her getting her dream job and not her having some kind of melt down. And it was nice they brought back Lena, Stef, and Jude to help send her off. 

As soon as they showed her on the plane, I knew Jamie was going to walk on. Which is ridiculous, but okay. And, would it not have been enough of a happy ending just having her dream job and knowing she'd meet all sorts of new people? She needs the guy as well?

I will say that Callie's storyline never seemed to totally gel with everyone else's and she only really talked to Mariana, Jamie, and her work colleagues.  So the show may be able to survive, they just have to chop off that whole subset of characters.  

I am glad they revealed what the new guy is investigating. When he was asking everyone how long they lived there I was thinking he was doing some story on the Coterie, but couldn't figure out why a journalist would care.

[possibilities]

Jude's look is ... no words.

[kav]

This episode was a tear breaker.  First, seeing Jude was like wow, where did cute little Judicorn as Afterbuzz called him go?  Also, I am curious about "the whole Jenna thing". (but not THAT Jenna thing.....  PPL). I am curious about the whole timeline of her.  The postcard was from 2018, I wonder when Callie and Marianna moved in?  Was there a back story to who was in their loft before them that I am forgetting?  The little girl was really cute.

[Glade]

Wow.  Callie was the only reason I was watching this show, I always liked her from the Fosters, and I don't care for Mariana or much of the coterie, the trial is what kept me last year.  I'm surprised the show is still going on without her; I doubt it will last.  This was a very small Foster's reunion showing, and I guess the turnout isn't going to be any bigger from now on. 

[bybrandy]

I'm going to need a pretty good explanation for why being all sly about it makes more sense then "Hey, our home life wasn't great and I lost touch with my sister a long time ago.  I've been trying to find her, to make sure she's okay, and I don't want to disrupt her life or cause trouble but I am looking for my sister and if anybody can give me a lead..." isn't the first logical step.  

[Zima]

23 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

1. It's gotta be rough to be the dude who plays Jamie and be told, "Yeah, sorry, she's leaving, so you lost your job, too."

I thought the same thing! Ouch. 

 

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Jude's look is ... no words.

I think he looks great! His hair is sooo pretty. 😍

Callie was generally very frustrating, but I am going to miss her. This farewell episode made me realize that she wasn't really close to anyone except for Mariana, Malika, and Gael, so I think the show will survive without her. I wish Maia the best, and hope she can make a few cameos in the future.

PS: I may have cried at several points during the episode.

[possibilities]

36 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I'm going to need a pretty good explanation for why being all sly about it makes more sense then "Hey, our home life wasn't great and I lost touch with my sister a long time ago.  I've been trying to find her, to make sure she's okay, and I don't want to disrupt her life or cause trouble but I am looking for my sister and if anybody can give me a lead..." isn't the first logical step.  

I think he's up to no good. When someone leaves without giving you their contact info, it means they don't want you to find them. He surely knows this, and is being cagey because he doesn't want anyone she trusted to be tipped off to what he's doing.

 

[circumvent]

I don't like Jude's look either. 

I think the writers pushed a little too hard on all the good-byes. It was Maia saying good bye, not Callie. There was so little chemistry between Callie and most of the other residents, it felt forced. It was also over the top to have moms there because they cannot let Mariana "fall apart". C'mon! Someone gets a dream job, they are ripe for a new start, the right thing should be "hey, I got a new job! It sucks it is far away, but I think it is perfect for me!" and the response  should be "oh, no, I am gong to miss you but that's so great! Let's plan some visits". Besides, the grief/happy for you message was like she was moving half way around the world, not to another state, like so many people do all the time. It wasn't a character's good bye, a farewell to someone who could be coming back or having guests regularly. It was a forever good-bye, a good bye to Maia. I thougth it was a big miss, too melodramatic. It shows how much they like her but not much creativity. 

[kav]

I am guessing Jude's long hair look was more based on what the actor is doing with his hair in real life.  Has he been in anything else?

[KaveDweller]

18 hours ago, kav said:

This episode was a tear breaker.  First, seeing Jude was like wow, where did cute little Judicorn as Afterbuzz called him go?  Also, I am curious about "the whole Jenna thing". (but not THAT Jenna thing.....  PPL). I am curious about the whole timeline of her.  The postcard was from 2018, I wonder when Callie and Marianna moved in?  Was there a back story to who was in their loft before them that I am forgetting?  The little girl was really cute.

The timeline new guy was putting on his wall had Callie and Marianna moving in in June 2019. Callie said that was 11 months ago, so I think we are at May 2020 show time. Obviously an alternate reality when May 2020 was a normal time.

I don't think we ever heard about who lived in their loft before them or about any previous Coterie resident.

16 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I'm going to need a pretty good explanation for why being all sly about it makes more sense then "Hey, our home life wasn't great and I lost touch with my sister a long time ago.  I've been trying to find her, to make sure she's okay, and I don't want to disrupt her life or cause trouble but I am looking for my sister and if anybody can give me a lead..." isn't the first logical step.  

I guess he thinks someone hurt her, since she missed sending their mother a postcard. I'm not sure why he thinks it must have been someone in the Coterie, but I guess he is being cautious?

[circumvent]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

The timeline new guy was putting on his wall had Callie and Marianna moving in in June 2019. Callie said that was 11 months ago, so I think we are at May 2020 show time.

I was confused about that too. So, in less than one year Callie has gone through all that drama with work, BLM stuff - which peaked in the summer of 2020 in real life, but let's forget that since the show hasn't acknowledged Covid either - not to mention all the drama with the other residents, Davia going from influencer on Instagram to  substitute teacher to teacher, Malika going from boyfriend to boyfriend, her mother and brother drama, the job grant story, Dennis brooding all day, then disappearing, then appearing again,  and all the Alice drama and success? Plus the Gael/Callie lust, interrupted by an already vey pregnant Isabela, after she came as a manipulative person and came back as a wonderful one? The writers have no sense of time - but that's been a feature since The Fosters

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I guess he thinks someone hurt her, since she missed sending their mother a postcard. I'm not sure why he thinks it must have been someone in the Coterie, but I guess he is being cautious?

That was my understanding too. As for why he is being so cautious, it is probably a writer's way of overcharge to compensate for Maia's departure. 

[KaveDweller]

15 hours ago, circumvent said:

I was confused about that too. So, in less than one year Callie has gone through all that drama with work, BLM stuff - which peaked in the summer of 2020 in real life, but let's forget that since the show hasn't acknowledged Covid either - not to mention all the drama with the other residents, Davia going from influencer on Instagram to  substitute teacher to teacher, Malika going from boyfriend to boyfriend, her mother and brother drama, the job grant story, Dennis brooding all day, then disappearing, then appearing again,  and all the Alice drama and success? Plus the Gael/Callie lust, interrupted by an already vey pregnant Isabela, after she came as a manipulative person and came back as a wonderful one? The writers have no sense of time - but that's been a feature since The Fosters

Yes, it has been less than a year when all this has happened. Which makes some of it ridiculous......like Mariana complaining about not wanting to start at the bottom again at a new company. She worked at the bottom at Evan's company for a couple of months, that is not a big deal. Callie's relationship drama is ridiculous in less than a year too.  But like you said, it matches the Fosters. That entire series took place in less than two years for the characters. 

The show clearly isn't going to acknowledge Covid at this point, and I have absolutely no problem with that. 

[bybrandy]

I don't mind either way but I don't want them to being wishy washy about it.  Like I'll be super bugged if somebody is a Covid long hauler when we never actually did Covid.   

 

[yourmomiseasy]

Callie often bugged the shit out of me, but I'm going to miss her and Jamie.  I'm kind of glad that it seems like her and Jamie might get back together, but only because I like Jamie.  What she did to him was super shitty, but I guess if he's gotten over it 🤷‍♀️  I think she might have learned from it and she does seem like she's grown a lot since it happened.  Even if I guess it's only been 11 months (wtf?).  I cried a little bit, but I find it's easier to make me cry these days than it used to be in the before times.  

I knew the reporter was up to something.  I kind of don't give a shit about his missing sister.  It seems like their mom is super religious and probably drove the sister away.  However, if done right, I could get into a mystery.  I just don't think it will be done right. 

Looks like Gael is jealous of his baby mama getting close to Dennis.  So I guess that's the new triangle.  

Is this show doing a thing where they show people just staring but put dialog over it?  I thought they did it last season to imply some inner monologue, but it seems like it happened this episode when the words were very obviously actually said out loud (and maybe last episode too, I can't remember).  If it is happening and not just my internet being shitty, it is stupid.

[crashdown]

Quote

Is this show doing a thing where they show people just staring but put dialog over it?  I thought they did it last season to imply some inner monologue, but it seems like it happened this episode when the words were very obviously actually said out loud (and maybe last episode too, I can't remember).  If it is happening and not just my internet being shitty, it is stupid.

They've done that since the beginning, and I agree that it's stupid. I don't know what it's called, and I really don't see what the point of it is. It always seemed to me like a silly gimmick to distinguish itself from The Fosters, and I don't know why they're continuing it.

Regarding Callie's departure, I agree that the episode felt a little maudlin and over-the-top: Marianna is the one who has formed real bonds with The Coterie, not Callie. But I guess it's just a case of life interfering with art. The COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS aspect of the whole thing to me was that Callie got an insta-job (does she have any idea how long it can take to get people to agree on a new hire and deal with the paperwork?) that she had to leave for *immediately* AND SO DID JAMIE. They had just seen each other a couple of days ago, and he never mentioned the fact that he was about to move to DC? I do like the fact that they'll be "together" off screen, but there are other, more credible ways that it could have been accomplished. Obviously, having Jamie declare his love for Callie and have her follow him to DC isn't what any of us would want or expect. But it's certainly possible that he could have gotten a job at the ACLU because of his new crisis of conscience and said that there was another slot for an associate, or some such. They could have left as colleagues, with a hint of some other possibility. At least it would have made a modicum of more sense. (It's also absurd to pretend that defense law is just not what Callie signed up for: she wasn't defending corporations in her current firm, she was defending people who may, in fact, be innocent. Since she spent at least a season in The Fosters defending Kyle, I would have thought that work was right up her alley.

I think the show has a strong enough ensemble to survive without Callie (Marianna would have been a bigger loss, because her story potential is more interesting), but I'm actually sorry to lose the Callie/Jamie dynamic. I assume the whole point was that, in at least another season and maybe longer, Callie would have done more gray things and Jamie would have gotten more rattled at how gray he was willing to go, and they would have found their way back to each other. Their little speech to each other in the bar in the episode before this one ("We all exist in the gray"/"We need someone to hold us accountable") was a fast-forward version of what would have been a nice storyline, and I'm sorry to miss it.

On 3/18/2022 at 1:20 AM, kav said:

First, seeing Jude was like wow, where did cute little Judicorn as Afterbuzz called him go?

"Judicorn" wasn't a name given to him by Afterbuzz--it was Jude's family nickname all through The Fosters.

[Wizardpatch]

If the ACLU goes back to actually defending the civil liberties of groups like NeoNazi marchers, Callie will come rushing back.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Wizardpatch

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, Wizardpatch said:

If the ACLU goes back to actually defending the civil liberties of groups like NeoNazi marchers, Callie will come rushing back.

If the ACLU doesn't defend the rights of everyone, then it defends the rights of no one. I hate that the extremist right took over the discourse, and has steadily increased in law enforcement, creating a situation where they hurt and kill people while law enforcement watches and cheers but picking and choosing who has civil rights is not the solution. The problem is not the people who march, it is the system, including the courts, that incentivizes and empowers them, with corporate media cashing in while spreading propaganda and reporing on their actions as if it is entertainment.

[Bobcatkitten]

I actually liked Callie's storylines the best so I will miss her a lot. A lot of the other storylines seem very fluff. As for Jude, I don't care about his hair but what an annoying ass to be so involved on your phone when you should be enjoying being with your sister before she moves thousands of miles away. 

I am a journalist so was really not liking the vibe of a hidden expose piece. So color me surprised and happy that he is looking for his sister. 

 

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, circumvent said:

If the ACLU doesn't defend the rights of everyone, then it defends the rights of no one. I hate that the extremist right took over the discourse, and has steadily increased in law enforcement, creating a situation where they hurt and kill people while law enforcement watches and cheers but picking and choosing who has civil rights is not the solution. The problem is not the people who march, it is the system, including the courts, that incentivizes and empowers them, with corporate media cashing in while spreading propaganda and reporing on their actions as if it is entertainment.

I agree that someone has to defend the rights of everyone, but can you picture Callie agreeing with that or having to defend a hate group?

23 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Is this show doing a thing where they show people just staring but put dialog over it?  I thought they did it last season to imply some inner monologue, but it seems like it happened this episode when the words were very obviously actually said out loud (and maybe last episode too, I can't remember).  If it is happening and not just my internet being shitty, it is stupid.

I never understand what they are doing with that. I agree that last season I thought they were implying inner thoughts that no one actually said, but Jamie clearly really asked if he could sit next to Callie on the plane. So I don't get it.

[possibilities]

Maybe it's cheaper to film things that way and dub in the voice over later.

I also hate the way they cut in the future and then start over and give us the context. It feels like they think it's artsy and clever but I just think it's shallow manipulative bullshit.

I thought airplanes have assigned seating. There's no "may I sit with you?" on a plane, is there? I admit I haven't been on one in a long time, but when I did fly, it was always assigned seats.

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree that someone has to defend the rights of everyone, but can you picture Callie agreeing with that or having to defend a hate group?

You are right, she would not fit in with the ACLU stated goals. I was actually hoping they would use The Innocence Project instead of the ACLU but they always wanted to make Callie more grandiose than she actually is

[bybrandy]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe it's cheaper to film things that way and dub in the voice over later.

I also hate the way they cut in the future and then start over and give us the context. It feels like they think it's artsy and clever but I just think it's shallow manipulative bullshit.

I thought airplanes have assigned seating. There's no "may I sit with you?" on a plane, is there? I admit I haven't been on one in a long time, but when I did fly, it was always assigned seats.

Sothwest doesn't do assigned seating.

[yourmomiseasy]

On 3/21/2022 at 3:39 AM, bybrandy said:

Sothwest doesn't do assigned seating.

Jamie's rich ass ain't flying Southwest LA->DC.  I can't remember exactly, but the plane looked pretty empty.  The cabin attendants don't go around checking tickets to make sure you're in the same seat.  It only becomes a problem if someone complains.  So if the flight was empty-ish odds are it wouldn't end up being a problem for them to sit together.

[Scarlett45]

On 3/18/2022 at 3:00 AM, Zima said:

Callie was generally very frustrating, but I am going to miss her. This farewell episode made me realize that she wasn't really close to anyone except for Mariana, Malika, and Gael, so I think the show will survive without her. I wish Maia the best, and hope she can make a few cameos in the future.

PS: I may have cried at several points during the episode.

Ditto. I understand why Maia wanted to go home to Australia, she will be missed- I enjoyed Callie as a character. 
 

But I think Season 4 can be strong without her. We have other great relationships to explore and it’s an ensemble show- I have always loved Gael and Davia’s relationship for example (especially this episode). FreeForm shows don’t run that long, so if this is the last season I wouldn’t be surprised. 

[tennisgurl]

I am really sorry to see Callie go, as much as she often frustrated me. She really was the heart of the franchise, its weird to think about the show going forward without her. I get Maia wanting to leave, but its just not going to be the same without her. I am glad that they at least gave her a decent send off, with her moms and Jude (and Jude's horrible hair), getting her dream job, and possibly getting back together with Jamie, having finally realized that she needs to fully commit to something. Its too bad she's leaving right now, as she finally seems to be turning a corner, but that's what happens when your actress leaves. Not much else to do, but it still sucks. Callie often drove me nuts, but I will miss her. 

So the reporter guy couldn't just ask people if they knew his sister because...? Does he actually think that they're a cult? That they murdered her? Why all the subterfuge? With him asking a million questions about everyone I figured he was digging into something, but I thought he wanted to write an article about communal living, not searching for someone.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/11/2022 at 4:14 PM, tennisgurl said:

So the reporter guy couldn't just ask people if they knew his sister because...? Does he actually think that they're a cult? That they murdered her? Why all the subterfuge? With him asking a million questions about everyone I figured he was digging into something, but I thought he wanted to write an article about communal living, not searching for someone.

Maybe he thinks if his sister gets word that someone is asking about her, she will run again?